Gerhard Berger: Webber was trying to take out Alonso or Hamilton

[CaptainRaiden]

Link: http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/245938/berger-webber-was-trying-to-take-out-alonso-or-hamilton/


Former F1 winner and F1 team owner Gerhard Berger has claimed Mark Webber knew exactly what he was doing when he collected Nico Rosberg after crashing out of the Korean Grand Prix on Sunday - although he believes the Aussie was aiming for someone else, namely one of his title rivals.

Webber had gone into the seventeenth round in the 2010 FIA Formula One World Championship, leading the title race, 14 points up on Fernando Alonso. However his mistake in the early stages when he got caught out by the tricky conditions cost him dear. He now drops to second in the standings, 11 points off the top.

Speaking to Servus TV, Berger said Webber could easily have avoided coming back onto the track after hitting the wall.

"He could have hit the brakes and stopped the car at the wall," said Berger, who raced in F1 from 1984-1997, winning ten grand’s prix during spells with teams such as McLaren, Ferrari and Benetton. "He took out [Nico] Rosberg, but it was the wrong one. I think in his mind he would have preferred Alonso or [Lewis] Hamilton.

“It was very clear [what he was trying to do]. He goes off and he knows it's over. In this moment you're frustrated and a thousand thoughts go through your head. It's very obvious, you can see his wheels are not locked up. Perhaps he had a brake problem, but I don't think so."

Rosberg, who had fought his way up to fourth in his Mercedes, was similarly suspicious: "I don't understand why Webber didn't hit the brakes. It was crazy to roll back across the track like that.

“It was really difficult to judge which way Mark's car would go and I took the decision to go left but he spun more and more that way and I just couldn't avoid him. It's a real shame," Rosberg added.

I think Berger and Rosberg are smoking something. Between his error and the time he hit Rosberg, there was hardly 3 seconds, and plus the car was carrying momentum. Even if he would have stood on the brakes, the car would have slid across a wet track anyway.

Discuss

[CaptainRaiden]

Video of the crash:

cTno1fuf-0M

[Mark]

Agreed, complete nonsense. People are always keen to attribute malice to events that occur over a handful of seconds, no time to think in that situation.

[turismo6]

I didn't think much at first, but if you look at Webber's front wheels after he bounced off the wall they are turned in...

[Daniel]

I thought the same as Berger before (that Webber failed to not steer back onto the circuit) untill I saw the replay and saw that his rear suspension was broken from the crash and one of his front wheels wasn't touching the ground and therefore he had no control over the thing.

[pino]

This is just ridiculos ! When you have such an incident you're only concentrate in stopping and get off the car as fast as possible.

[Daniel]

Calm down Pino no one actually agrees with Berger :P

[Dave B]

I want some of whatever Berger's on, that's an utterly stupid thing for him to say. I doubt Webber will even dignify this with a response.

[mike.flynn]

Webber's not the type of driver to that on purpose, he know's rolling back across the track could have the potential to kill someone, (i know the cars are strong as ever, but anything could happen) he wouldn't put other drivers lives in danger. What Berger is saying is completely disrespectful to Webber!

[Daniel]

Webber's not the type of driver to that on purpose, he know's rolling back across the track could have the potential to kill someone, (i know the cars are strong as ever, but anything could happen) he wouldn't put other drivers lives in danger. What Berger is saying is completely disrespectful to Webber!
He drove into the back of Kovalainen on purpose though :p

[mike.flynn]

He drove into the back of Kovalainen on purpose though :p

I wouldnt quite say he did it on purpose! He knew that would only end his race! just mis-judged it in my opinion! :p

[Donney]

I don't think any driver would do that on purpose and Berger really have to stop using whatever it is he is using.

[Daniel]

I wouldnt quite say he did it on purpose! He knew that would only end his race! just mis-judged it in my opinion! :p
Of course. I jest of course, it was a pretty big misjudgement *shakes head*

[TMorel]

Where was Flavio before the start of the race?

[N. Jones]

I don't agree that he deliberately tried to hit someone after his accident but I have been wondering why he didn't hit the brakes after his accident.
It's my understanding that when in a car during a panic situation the driver normally hits the brakes (there are some cases where you shouldn't).

[mike.flynn]

Of course. I jest of course, it was a pretty big misjudgement *shakes head*

Yer it was, i dont what he was thinking

[greenchile505]

I was pretty incensed by Berber's comment, and I am hardly a fan of Webber. As such, I thought I would give Berger the benefit of the doubt and look into it further. If you watch the replay of the crash from Webber's car, you will see the FL tire keeps rolling after he hits the wall, BUT the FR is locked. So, I believe Webber tried to stop and control the car but, due to damage caused by the impact, was unable to.

Conclusion: Berger is crazy.

The only F1 driver I know who is capable of calculating in real-time a driving response as devious as what Berger is suggesting is MS (of whom I am a fan; when he is not up to his antics).

[mike.flynn]

The only F1 driver I know who is capable of calculating in real-time a driving response as devious as what Berger is suggesting is MS (of whom I am a fan; when he is not up to his antics).



Completely agree!

[Allyc85]

lol keep on winding them up Gerhard, im sure there will be many who will bite ;)

[Mixa]

Yeah,it was pretty pointless to say something like what Berger said. Still I was quite surprised that Webber wasn´t investigated by the stewards after the race or by someone else because as here has been said,letting the car to slide across the track was actually really dangerous move. Probably no one didn´t wanted to have their touch for the championship fight. I really hope that he tried to brake...

I´m also hardly a fan of Webber,must have to admit. I somehow always find him as a quick driver if he is at front but if he has to fight for positions after poor QL example he mostly causes a crash or even two during the race still saying that it was someone elses fault.

[UltimateDanGTR]

considering Gerhard was supposed to be good friends with the Red Bull F1 setup, this is a surprise.

and like above, I think this is absolute nonsense.

maybe he is bitter over something?

[i_max2k2]

Where was Flavio before the start of the race?

:D Lol I hope he was not talking to webber! haha rofl.

[fandango]

I think it depends on the driver. Webber , to his credit, is almost universally respected as a gentleman. If you were to replace Webber and Rosberg with two other drivers in the same incident, any two of Alonso, Hamilton, Schumacher and even Vettel then I expect the debate would be a lot more heated.

I have no reason to believe that Webber didn't break deliberately, but you would expect a driver at the level of a front running F1 team to able to break in a situation like that, so the suspicion is out there. It's impossible to know, and perhaps a little irresponsible of Berger to start throwing the suspicion around, unless of course that is now his job ;)

[Shifter]

I'd assume if Webber had functioning brakes or steering he'd have stopped or turned the wheel left. I can't believe he'd make the decision to let the car roll backwards across the racing line.

F1 is war, and I wouldn't put it past some drivers to do it on purpose, but really the assumption is that the brakes didn't work and neither did the steering.

[RJL25]

his left rear wheel was gone, his front right was off the ground, so he effectively only had two wheels on his wagon, and if you look closely his right rear wheel is locked, suggesting that he is infact on the brakes but for whatever reasons his front left isn't braking, when a wheel is ripped off the car I would assume that means the brake line is cut which would effectively wreck the braking system of the car.

Total nonsense from burger

[truefan72]

his left rear wheel was gone, his front right was off the ground, so he effectively only had two wheels on his wagon, and if you look closely his right rear wheel is locked, suggesting that he is infact on the brakes but for whatever reasons his front left isn't braking, when a wheel is ripped off the car I would assume that means the brake line is cut which would effectively wreck the braking system of the car.

Total nonsense from burger

yep

[steveaki13]

:dozey:

I know Gerhard was probably just BS -ing everyone, but really what is he on about. :rolleyes:

I doubt Webber would have had time to think of that for one, but also I don't think Mark would do something like that.

He would have been not just altering the championship but more importantly putting his and anothers life at risk.

Come on Gerhard thats not on.

[CNR]

given that to track was only laid 2 weeks before the gp the paint used on the side of a bitumen racetrack would have been like a sheet of plastic ?

given that the red bull cars can take side impacts had Rosberg not taken mark out
mark may have hit the wall side on and may have been able to continue the race

[D28]

As a F1 driver and winner, Berger more than all others, should know better.
To watch a wet Grand Prix, and see drivers put their foot in it for maximum speed, when all normal instincts would be to slow down, is to marvel at their ideas of self preservation.
To suggest that Weber would have the time, or the inclination to launch his car across the track, to take out others, is just not credible. If nothing else, what about his own vulnerability?
Berger, if he was serious, owes Weber an apology.

[Rollo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl12WLsuCbI

If you watch the video, from the time of the car's impact to the time it starts to move back across the track is probably something in the order of microseconds. Webber after the crash was little more than a passenger.

[mstillhere]

Link: http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/245938/berger-webber-was-trying-to-take-out-alonso-or-hamilton/



I think Berger and Rosberg are smoking something. Between his error and the time he hit Rosberg, there was hardly 3 seconds, and plus the car was carrying momentum. Even if he would have stood on the brakes, the car would have slid across a wet track anyway.

Discuss

I wonder what would be the real reason why Webber would say that. I am not saying that Webber got back in the middle of the track without braking on purpose but I also know that Berger does not usually goes around saying stupid things. I find this situation very intriguing. I guess it would take another one of these accidents to know more about this situation

[Tazio]

Where was Flavio before the start of the race?

Isn't Flavio Marks Manager :eek: :p

[markabilly]

Calm down Pino no one actually agrees with Berger :P
well...i was just thinking that webber chops again, new style, backwards, not even MS managed to do that to anybody........ :s mokin:

or when he hit, he was a bit stunned for a few seconds, and thought rosberg was vettel or freddie.... :eek: and if he had a reverse gear........










or when the wheel went, so went the brakes, but this would be too logical and after much thought and drink, I will go with the obvious fact that he was just following team orders but hit rosberg by mistake

[markabilly]

[quote="markabilly"]well...i was just thinking that webber chops again, new style, backwards, not even MS managed to do that to anybody........ :s mokin:

or when he hit, he was a bit stunned for a few seconds, and thought rosberg was vettel or freddie.... :eek: and if he had a reverse gear........













or when the wheel went, so went the brakes, but this would be too logical and after much thought and drink, I will go with the obvious fact that he was just following team orders

[Mia 01]

Totally bull from Berger.

What´s his agenda?

[Arjuna]

It needs further investigation, in case the pressure is extremely big and he forgot to brake, it's also a mistake. I think he already braked it. It's just slippery when wet.. Although he wants the WDC title eagerly, I doubt Mark would want to play anything dirty to carry with him the rival off.. He had great luck on his collision with Hamilton, this time he is only unlucky, or something sort of karma :)

[Hondo]

After watching the video included with the thread, I have come to the conclusion that the energy left after the impact along with the rain slick track meant the car was going to remain in motion regardless of what the driver did. It looks like the steering is broken and remaining at full lock. If Webber had nailed the brakes, assuming they still worked, it might have brought the car to a halt in the middle of the track. I figure Berger feels he just hasn't been in the papers enough lately.

[Valve Bounce]

Where was Flavio before the start of the race?Flavio has something to do with Mark's management - something smells really, really fishy to me. :p :

[Dave B]

given that the red bull cars can take side impacts had Rosberg not taken mark out
mark may have hit the wall side on and may have been able to continue the race
I doubt he would have been able to continue even if he hadn't collided with Rosberg. As he crosses the track the suspension is fairly well deranged from the first contact with the wall. I suppose he may have been able to recover to the pits, but I fear the damage would have been irreparable in any sensible timescale.

[mike.flynn]

given that to track was only laid 2 weeks before the gp the paint used on the side of a bitumen racetrack would have been like a sheet of plastic ?

given that the red bull cars can take side impacts had Rosberg not taken mark out
mark may have hit the wall side on and may have been able to continue the race

He definitely couldn't have carried on, when his rear left suspension collapsed, the front right wheel of the car lifts up off the track, there was no chance he could of drove that car back to the pits

[555-04Q2]

Webber's not the type of driver to that on purpose,

Thas what people say about the nice neighbour, who actually turns out to be a serial killer!!!

[Mark]

Webber ain't no Schumacher! But then again, it's always the quiet ones ;)

[mike.flynn]

Webber ain't no Schumacher! But then again, it's always the quiet ones ;)

I agree, Schumacher was a devious genius! Webber just isnt that kind of guy!

[CaptainRaiden]

I agree, Schumacher was a devious genius! Webber just isnt that kind of guy!

I wouldn't really associate the word "genius" with a guy who would do something idiotic like this:

CgfuoSFerDU

:D

[mike.flynn]

ok, so he had the odd off day, haha

[mike.flynn]

http://www.motoring.co.uk/car_videos.cgi?search=michael-schumacher-the-legend

Check out the top left video, can't argue with them stats!

[wedge]

Why did Webber, for a split second, decided to turn the car back onto circuit instead of hugging the wall and off the track?


Webber ain't no Schumacher! But then again, it's always the quiet ones ;)

A common trick whenever there was huge shunt and especially first corner/lap ones, was to stick your foot on the brake/stall the car on purpose so as to cause a red flag. However today you can't jump into the spare car and SC is now a common occurance.

It seems the trick today it seems to block the track on purpose as with Schumi in Monaco 2006; 2007 Indycar Detroit GP, Scott Dixon - again, one of the quiet ones! decided to block the track and rival Dario Franchitti after a collision with another driver; and in NASCAR some drivers think they can escape the wrath of the officials by deliberately bringing out a caution.

[maxmach]

Berger=moron
He should also issue an apology to Webber
Then He should stick his head back in the sand

[CaptainRaiden]

ok, so he had the odd off day, haha

Ahem...

2jcHrHUJdu0

:p

[mike.flynn]

like i said, a couple of off days, haha

[Valve Bounce]

Why did Webber, for a split second, decided to turn the car back onto circuit instead of hugging the wall and off the track?


To find out why the chicken crossed the track?

[Dave B]

I've just been watching the replay of the onboard camera, and if you look at Mark's hands on (and off) the steering wheel there's no way on earth he even attempted to take out another car.

I hope Berger will retract his statement and issue Webber with an apology.

[ZEROX]

A complete nonsense !
Look,if Mark try hit the brake,he will stop at the middle of the track !
And it would trigger multiple car pile-up !
It's a wet new track ! Stopping the car would be very difficult . Infact , there's no where to avoid it . Both side of the track have wall close to the circuit .

It's a good choice for him try bring the car to the side of the corner of the track.But bad luck strike him again. Rosberg was there so.The end.

[Daniel]

A complete nonsense !
Look,if Mark try hit the brake,he will stop at the middle of the track !
And it would trigger multiple car pile-up !
It's a wet new track ! Stopping the car would be very difficult . Infact , there's no where to avoid it . Both side of the track have wall close to the circuit .

It's a good choice for him try bring the car to the side of the corner of the track.But bad luck strike him again. Rosberg was there so.The end.
Mark didn't try to bring the car across the track, the car was broken and did it on its own.

[ZEROX]

Mark didn't try to bring the car across the track, the car was broken and did it on its own.

Well.If that the case or whatever it is, it's not his fault . :)

[wedge]

I've just been watching the replay of the onboard camera, and if you look at Mark's hands on (and off) the steering wheel there's no way on earth he even attempted to take out another car.

I hope Berger will retract his statement and issue Webber with an apology.

Webber took his hands off so they wouldn't break a finger on impact with the wall but surely the natural instinct is to counter-steer the car regardless whether this will physically work or not, so that it doesn't go back onto the racing line.

Not that I fully advocate Berger's comment - it does raise a suspicion.

[Ent]

Webber took his hands off so they wouldn't break a finger on impact with the wall but surely the natural instinct is to counter-steer the car regardless whether this will physically work or not, so that it doesn't go back onto the racing line.

A bit hard to counter-steer the car with your hands off the wheel. Mind you, it's also a bit hard to steer when there are wheels hanging off the car and another up in the air, on a wet track where the car has no grip (as shown by Webber sliding across the track and into the wall in the first place).

I thought it was generally accepted that Webber wasn't as good as some of the others in the wet. The way Berger's talking, he'd have to have been a genius in the wet to be able to control a broken car, especially when he couldn't control it in the wet before it was damaged.

[CNR]

time to look back and see how how many races Berger did this in
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnmgVw5LbSU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4vkZSdswM4

you just need to look at this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnhiK5b1A-w
People Who Live In Glass Houses Should Not Throw Stones

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&rlz=1T4GGLL_enAU404&tbs=vid%3A1&q=Berger+crashes&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

some one tell him to keep his fukn mouth shout

[Valve Bounce]

Webber took his hands off so they wouldn't break a finger on impact with the wall but surely the natural instinct is to counter-steer the car regardless whether this will physically work or not, so that it doesn't go back onto the racing line.

Not that I fully advocate Berger's comment - it does raise a suspicion.

You are absolutely correct. Let's ask Lisbeth Salander; she will know for sure. It's a Teleborian conspiracy :eek:

[wedge]

A bit hard to counter-steer the car with your hands off the wheel. Mind you, it's also a bit hard to steer when there are wheels hanging off the car and another up in the air, on a wet track where the car has no grip (as shown by Webber sliding across the track and into the wall in the first place).

He appeared to have touched the steering again and made minimal effort to counter steer. At least make some sort of effort.

[Valve Bounce]

He appeared to have touched the steering again and made minimal effort to counter steer. At least make some sort of effort.

yeah! he is guilty of malpractice. We should let Millenium do an expose on Mark Webber - let Blomqvist handle it.

Start here: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1132620/

[Ari]

Webber's not the type of driver to that on purpose, he know's rolling back across the track could have the potential to kill someone, (i know the cars are strong as ever, but anything could happen) he wouldn't put other drivers lives in danger. What Berger is saying is completely disrespectful to Webber!

So Berger needs a little attention I guess? Maybe wants a little more of the spotlight.

As per Mikes post above, pretty much on the money. No driver in their right mind would roll across track with the possibility to be cleaned up ON PURPOSE.

It would be one thing to hit a wall, or go straight in. But I don't know what side impact is like on those cars. Those monocoques are pretty good front on as they have a decent crumple zone, not the same side on.

Would be a death wish.

[Ari]

It needs further investigation, in case the pressure is extremely big and he forgot to brake, it's also a mistake. I think he already braked it. It's just slippery when wet.. Although he wants the WDC title eagerly, I doubt Mark would want to play anything dirty to carry with him the rival off.. He had great luck on his collision with Hamilton, this time he is only unlucky, or something sort of karma :)

How do we know further investigation wasn't done?

Possible the FIA looked at telemetry of the vehicle and saw Webber DID brake but in the wet and with a damaged car it was to no evail.

No way that the FIA would come out and say "because of Berger we have done some snooping and realised Webber is in fact in the clear, thanks for the heads up Berger". lol

[Tazio]

This thread is done!

[Valve Bounce]

I'm reading the first book in that series at the moment, "the girl with the dragon tattoo".. :)

OK! I'll keep my mouth shut. ENJOY!!
I have all three books and just finished the last one today. Now I have nothing that I want to read. :(

[wedge]

OK! I'll keep my mouth shut. ENJOY!!
I have all three books and just finished the last one today. Now I have nothing that I want to read. :(

As fellow fan of The Wire read Homicide, The Corner; not to mention the works of Richard Price - Clockers is must read, and George Pelacanos.

[wedge]

yeah! he is guilty of malpractice. We should let Millenium do an expose on Mark Webber - let Blomqvist handle it.

Start here: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1132620/

Webbo apparantly was going to attempt to spin-turn the car round, so make of it what you will

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/87772