Hot Hatchbacks

[Rollo]

With the demise of my Ford Ka (due to requiring a front suspension rebuild which was worth more than the car), I'm looking for a replacement.

So far I've narrowed the short list down to about four, with the Honda Civic Type-R, Ford Fiesta Zetec and the VW Golf type wotsits at the top of the running.

Has anyone had any experience with any of the above, or can you recommend something else for punting through city traffic in a hurry?

[GridGirl]

Are you talking about new hot hatches or older shape models? My brother previously had the old shaped Type R Anniversary edition and I wouldn't put it in the same class of car as my old shape Fiesta ST. The newer shape Civic Type R is much slower than the old one but again I wouldn't class it in the same league as a new shape Fiesta Zetec in terms of price and size, cost of running and insurance.

I've had things go wrong with my Ford but my brother has never had anything go wrong with his Type R. He's now got a S2000 and seems to be firmly converted into being a Honda man.

I have to admit that I am quite taken with the looks of the Alfa Romeo Mito and the Fiesta RS. I don't think you can buy a Fiesta RS yet though but I may be wrong.

[Rollo]

I seriously doubt whether we'll ever be able to buy a Fiesta RS in Oz. We only just got the Focus RS, and even then the 315 which were allocated all got sold... in FOUR minutes.

[GridGirl]

I just consulted google and I don't think they are going to release an RS anyway. The RS will be used in WRC and a new ST will be released with an eco-boost engine some time next year but I guess that will also take some time to be released in Austrailia. Persnonally, as much as I like the looks of that RS, I just don't think I'd buy another ST.

[Jag_Warrior]

Not really a hatch, but what about a WRX wagon? A few relatively simple mods and you can get 300 bhp+ from the 02-05 2.0 liter U.S model. I'm not sure what was offered there... you may even be able to get the STi in wagon form.

Great build quality, bullet proof reliability and hella quick.

[Zico]

106 GTI, yeah it may not look much but I promise you it will be the most fun fwd car you will ever drive once you have explored that chassis, its the only fwd car i have driven that can be steered on the throttle with the back end hanging right out with such ease, such comunicative steering too. Only 120bhp but very light giving a great power to weight ratio allowing to to punch well above its weight. It was voted the 2nd best handling car in the world from a field of 40 cars by Richard Burns and Tim Harvey on Top Gear when they 1st came out, the winner was the Ferrari 550 Maranello, a fwd hot hatch should not even be in that top 40 never mind finish 2nd.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2053328027664524544#

Do not even think about getting its poor cousin the Saxo VTS, it may share the same engine etc but they dont have the 24mm rear ARB so they aren't as well ballanced through the corners.. the build quality isn't as good on them, they are as common as muck and you will just look like another boy racing twat.

You'll get aprox 30-35 mpg from it depending on how you drive it.
Unfortunatey they have become very popular with the boy racing fraternity who modify them, rag them and ruin the handling by lowering them and fitting bigger wheels etc etc.. so just make sure its completely standard with as low millage as possible, generally very relliable in my experience (I've had 3) but after 70-80k miles the rear beam bearings will go requiring a refurbed beam with new stub pins. I decided to break my last one.. it had done 110k but it needed a new rear beam amongst other things and I was needing a diesel for work. I will definately be getting another one day though.. or maybe a 306 Rallye.

[DexDexter]

Aren't those hot hatchbacks a bit embarrasing? (If you're over 20 that is) A small car that is sporty but in reality terribly noisy and unpractical...

[GridGirl]

Noisey...yes I suppose.

Define unpractical though. I can fit my 4 year old and 9month old neices complete with car seats in the back of my ST quite easily and it has more than enough room in the boot for shopping and carting around work files and my laptop etc. My car is practical for 99.9% of the time I'm driving it. I suppose I do have the option of using my other half's bigger car but I rarely actually require a car that big. I suppose a hot hatch costs more to run and insure but I wouldn't necessarily say that means its unpractical.

[Sonic]

Alfa Mito Cloverleaf! You won't be disappointed.

If it's something older you are after one of the Renault Sports are fantastic fun.

[Daniel]

A Grande Punto Abarth or a Punto Evo Abarth would be a good choice too. Sadly neither sell in Australia though I think the Punto Evo Abarth might be selling soon.

[Rollo]

Aren't those hot hatchbacks a bit embarrasing? (If you're over 20 that is) A small car that is sporty but in reality terribly noisy and unpractical...

What do you mean unpractical?

To illustrate this, our washing machine decided to break down one day and my wife wanted to take it to a repair shop but the problem is that she drives a Nissan Skyline.
A 2.5L four door sedan with a big boot can not fit a washing machine in the boot or in through the doors to put in on the back seat, BUT a 1.3L Ka could.

Basically I still want a small car that when you put your foot down, gives you a decent shove in the backside, but I also want the utility of carting around stuff if I need to.

[Daniel]

What do you mean unpractical?

To illustrate this, our washing machine decided to break down one day and my wife wanted to take it to a repair shop but the problem is that she drives a Nissan Skyline.
A 2.5L four door sedan with a big boot can not fit a washing machine in the boot or in through the doors to put in on the back seat, BUT a 1.3L Ka could.

Basically I still want a small car that when you put your foot down, gives you a decent shove in the backside, but I also want the utility of carting around stuff if I need to.

It's always surprising how much you can fit in the back of a hatchback. With the seats down I could get 4 wheels with tyres on them in the 500. Could get 4 tyres in the back of the Subaru but only just and that's a far bigger car.

[Zico]

Aren't those hot hatchbacks a bit embarrasing? (If you're over 20 that is) A small car that is sporty but in reality terribly noisy and unpractical...

Definately not impractical, with the rear seats down it would surprise you what you could fit in a 106 and not far off the Subaru believe it or not.
It doesn't have to be noisy either (as standard) although I must admit I did fit a top quality 4-2-1 S/S manifold, decat pipe and performance panel air filter simply for the performance gains they brought.... probably an extra 10bhp all in?
Yes I'll admit I do feel that image burden at my grand old age of 35 and am/was embarrassed to be driving what has sadly become a boy racers car When I was attending job interviews etc, when I would always opt for the Impreza.... lol, but if you can look past that unfortunate image they now have, they really are a worthy descendant and share the same spirit as the iconic 205 GTIs... just more forgiving, better handling... and what a car for such little outlay, insurance and running costs.

[Mark]

Noisey...yes I suppose.

Define unpractical though. I can fit my 4 year old and 9month old neices complete with car seats in the back of my ST quite easily and it has more than enough room in the boot for shopping and carting around work files and my laptop etc. My car is practical for 99.9% of the time I'm driving it. I suppose I do have the option of using my other half's bigger car but I rarely actually require a car that big. I suppose a hot hatch costs more to run and insure but I wouldn't necessarily say that means its unpractical.

Because there's no particular compromise with the Fiesta ST, as it's just a normal Fiesta with a bigger engine (and suspension tweaks etc). It's not some strange car with tiny back seats etc.

[Mark]

What do you mean unpractical?

To illustrate this, our washing machine decided to break down one day and my wife wanted to take it to a repair shop but the problem is that she drives a Nissan Skyline.
A 2.5L four door sedan with a big boot can not fit a washing machine in the boot or in through the doors to put in on the back seat, BUT a 1.3L Ka could.


I know this problem! Karen's Dad used to have an Lexus, big car with a separate boot. Despite the car being so big and massive with the boot being separated from the inside of the car he couldn't fit anything in there. So if he wanted to move anything of size he'd have to borrow Karen's Peugeot 206, which was about half the size!

He's gone the other way now and has a still big and massive but hackback Honda estate. You could probably fit a Ka in the boot now!

[Daniel]

Because there's no particular compromise with the Fiesta ST, as it's just a normal Fiesta with a bigger engine (and suspension tweaks etc). It's not some strange car with tiny back seats etc.

Quite right. The only body shape that's really not that practical is a coupe where you can only access the rear seats by putting the front seats forward. When we went to France we had loads of stuff on the back seat of the 500 and it was easily accessible through the hatch. Sure a 5 door hatch would perhaps be a little more practical but even 3 door hatches are plenty practical :)

[wedge]

Seat Ibiza Cupra/FR

Renault Clio Sport


Quite right. The only body shape that's really not that practical is a coupe where you can only access the rear seats by putting the front seats forward. When we went to France we had loads of stuff on the back seat of the 500 and it was easily accessible through the hatch. Sure a 5 door hatch would perhaps be a little more practical but even 3 door hatches are plenty practical :)

Can easily stick 3 adults passengers (as long as 2 are under 6ft! :D ) and luggage in my Celica.

I had more problems with a 206 because the back seats never folded flat.

[DexDexter]

What do you mean unpractical?

To illustrate this, our washing machine decided to break down one day and my wife wanted to take it to a repair shop but the problem is that she drives a Nissan Skyline.
A 2.5L four door sedan with a big boot can not fit a washing machine in the boot or in through the doors to put in on the back seat, BUT a 1.3L Ka could.

Basically I still want a small car that when you put your foot down, gives you a decent shove in the backside, but I also want the utility of carting around stuff if I need to.

KA isn't a hot hatchback, is it? I was referring to cars such as Seat Ibiza FR which will make you deaf if you drive it on a motorway, has a suspension like a stone and isn't really that safe cause most vehicles are much heavier than it.

[Rollo]

KA isn't a hot hatchback, is it?

Mine was. I had a 130bhp on board by the end. Oh ho ho you might scoff but when you bear in mind that the original only had 60, and the current Zetec Fiesta only has 115, then it starts to look like something special.

[Mark]

the current Zetec Fiesta only has 115, then it starts to look like something special.

Do you mean the Zetec S? As the Zetec is a bog standard trim level with nothing particularly notable about it. Even then I wouldn't really call the Zetec S a hot hatch, luke warm at best! It's really just an excuse for boy racers to have flared wheel arches and bumpers etc with the same engines that are available in lesser trim levels. e.g. The 1.6TDCi engine I have in my Titanium model is the same one as in the Zetec S, which I doubt goes any faster!

[Rollo]

There isn't an ST or an RS for the latest Fiesta yet and it depends on whether or not the Stop Having Fun Guys of the Euro V emissions group have their way as to if they exist at all.
As it is, the Civic Type-R was killed off because of them.

[wedge]

Do you mean the Zetec S? As the Zetec is a bog standard trim level with nothing particularly notable about it. Even then I wouldn't really call the Zetec S a hot hatch, luke warm at best! It's really just an excuse for boy racers to have flared wheel arches and bumpers etc with the same engines that are available in lesser trim levels. e.g. The 1.6TDCi engine I have in my Titanium model is the same one as in the Zetec S, which I doubt goes any faster!

http://www.mountuneperformance.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=141&Itemid=58

[Mark]

http://www.mountuneperformance.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=141&Itemid=58

Nice, is there a diesel version?

[DexDexter]

Mine was. I had a 130bhp on board by the end. Oh ho ho you might scoff but when you bear in mind that the original only had 60, and the current Zetec Fiesta only has 115, then it starts to look like something special.

130 is pretty nice for a KA. I'm sure it moved pretty rapidly when necessary. ;)

[Iain]

I was referring to cars such as Seat Ibiza FR which will make you deaf if you drive it on a motorway, has a suspension like a stone and isn't really that safe cause most vehicles are much heavier than it.

I had one for 4 years and did 75k miles in it and I still have my hearing. Sorry, what was that?? Motorway cruising is fine, but the ride is a bit hard when it's not on a smooth road. This can be cured by fiddling with the suspension though, but I'm not a modifier, so never did that. A perfectly safe car. I know a few people from the Seat forum who had big crashes and walked away to tell the story. And most of them bought another one as a result.