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View Full Version : A total, utter, bloody, disgrace.



Sonic
24th October 2010, 09:22
What. The. Frak?

Powered by Cosworth
24th October 2010, 09:26
They're thinking about Championship position rather than the race I reckon.

steveaki13
24th October 2010, 09:26
Agree

This really is an F1 low point.

The decision to race is being dictated by a few drivers happy to not race and pick up the points for finishing where they started.

Mark
24th October 2010, 09:27
F1 has become a complete farce.

Retro Formula 1
24th October 2010, 09:30
Why are we not racing. I agree that the track is a joke at the moment but the cars have cleared it pretty well and it's no more than damp on the racing line.

F%*king joke.

Mark
24th October 2010, 09:31
Listening to those with vested interests is never a good idea!

Sonic
24th October 2010, 09:47
I'm sorry but if it's dry enough for inters after 3 racing laps it was dry enough to start

Dave B
24th October 2010, 11:08
Listening to those with vested interests is never a good idea!
Indeed. Hamilton's getting a lot of praise for wanting to get on with it, but would he have been so keen if he had a lead to protect?

Likewise Vettel, as soon as he got to the point where full points were awarded, he suddenly thought it should be stopped.

Sonic
24th October 2010, 11:27
^^^^^

Which is exactly why the race director should make have an impartial view to listen to - where's Pedro in the TF109 when you need him? ;)

inimitablestoo
24th October 2010, 11:29
In all fairness, in his post-DNF interview Vettel did say he'd have liked the race to be stopped but it was still OK to continue. But yes, there didn't seem much point in the hour-plus-long start delay or whatever it was in the end.

fandango
24th October 2010, 11:29
On the same note, respect to Webber for not saying after he crashed that conditions were impossible, to stop the race and give everyone half points :)

truefan72
24th October 2010, 12:23
On the same note, respect to Webber for not saying after he crashed that conditions were impossible, to stop the race and give everyone half points :)

yep. much respect

Dave B
24th October 2010, 12:36
Aye. Webber may not have been particularly enthusiastic to get going, but he was man enough to admit he messed up and took his misfortune on the chin. :up:

52Paddy
25th October 2010, 00:59
Aye. Webber may not have been particularly enthusiastic to get going, but he was man enough to admit he messed up and took his misfortune on the chin. :up:

My sentiments exactly. Fair play to him :up:

wedge
25th October 2010, 01:10
Glad I watched it on iplayer.

Should've let them race. Carrying your arm and leg after a shunt is part of the job description of a racing driver.



What. The. Frak?

Were you trying to be Frank?

Mark
25th October 2010, 15:16
Remember Barcelona 1996? That race would have never even started under current regs.

Sonic
25th October 2010, 16:23
Remember Barcelona 1996? That race would have never even started under current regs.

Good point. Which other classics would have been run under SC today? Suzuka '94 springs to mind. Donny '93 perhaps. Interlagos with the rivers - was that 2004? Adelaide - was it '88?

turismo6
25th October 2010, 16:55
Maybe the FIA need there own f1 based safty car to get a feel and unbiased point of view of wet tracks

Dave B
25th October 2010, 17:03
James Allen's blog has a good piece about how the decisions were made:
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/10/bad-light-doesnt-stop-play-how-race-contol-makes-key-decisions/

Mark
25th October 2010, 17:20
Back in the day teams could completely change the setup of the cars to race in the wet. With Parc Fermé rules you have to choose your race setup before qualifying.

Sonic
25th October 2010, 18:47
Back in the day teams could completely change the setup of the cars to race in the wet. With Parc Fermé rules you have to choose your race setup before qualifying.

All too true. Back in the day you could have fiddled with everything from ride height to camber etc. But now a tweak of wing, change the diff settings and soften up the dampers and you are done. It makes a mockery of the sport. The best cars with the best drivers with the most advanced tyre technology and they can't handle a bit of rain.

schmenke
25th October 2010, 23:51
Back in the day teams could completely change the setup of the cars to race in the wet. With Parc Fermé rules you have to choose your race setup before qualifying.

Yep, good point. I've always thought that the parc fermé rule was a good thing, but perhaps it needs to be modified to allow for last-minute setting adjustments if a "wet race" is declared. Surely allowing ~ 1/2 hour for adjustments to be made in the garage is better than sitting on the grid for an hour waiting for the rain to abet :dozey:

truefan72
26th October 2010, 03:07
Yep, good point. I've always thought that the parc fermé rule was a good thing, but perhaps it needs to be modified to allow for last-minute setting adjustments if a "wet race" is declared. Surely allowing ~ 1/2 hour for adjustments to be made in the garage is better than sitting on the grid for an hour waiting for the rain to abet :dozey:

yep, excellent point

ArrowsFA1
26th October 2010, 10:28
I've always thought that the parc fermé rule was a good thing, but perhaps it needs to be modified to allow for last-minute setting adjustments if a "wet race" is declared.
I've never understood why teams have to be 'locked in' to the setup they've used for qualifying. Bring back the morning warm-up and if teams want to make changes let them, wet or dry.

fandango
26th October 2010, 10:36
I've never understood why teams have to be 'locked in' to the setup they've used for qualifying. Bring back the morning warm-up and if teams want to make changes let them, wet or dry.

Yeah, it's better for the fans at the circuit too....

inimitablestoo
26th October 2010, 21:31
Made some sense in the refuelling days. Less so now.

What I'd do, had I the power, would be to reinstate the warm-up (perhaps as just a half-hour session, they don't really need another hour by Sunday) and allow some set-up changes BUT if you change an engine or a gearbox after qualifying, take a tumble down the grid. Perhaps make that a 10-place penalty and reduce the drop to five places for a change earlier in the weekend. After all, some of these changes were made to ensure that you race with (substantially) the car you actually qualified.

Sonic
26th October 2010, 22:09
Made some sense in the refuelling days. Less so now.

What I'd do, had I the power, would be to reinstate the warm-up (perhaps as just a half-hour session, they don't really need another hour by Sunday) and allow some set-up changes BUT if you change an engine or a gearbox after qualifying, take a tumble down the grid. Perhaps make that a 10-place penalty and reduce the drop to five places for a change earlier in the weekend. After all, some of these changes were made to ensure that you race with (substantially) the car you actually qualified.

I'd be down with that. Removing the ability to alter the car setup seems to fly in the face a reason.

Mark
27th October 2010, 10:15
Made some sense in the refuelling days. Less so now.

What I'd do, had I the power, would be to reinstate the warm-up (perhaps as just a half-hour session, they don't really need another hour by Sunday) and allow some set-up changes BUT if you change an engine or a gearbox after qualifying, take a tumble down the grid. Perhaps make that a 10-place penalty and reduce the drop to five places for a change earlier in the weekend. After all, some of these changes were made to ensure that you race with (substantially) the car you actually qualified.

Yeah I'd go with that! Being able to see the cars for 30 minutes on a Sunday morning seems a great thing for fans, and allows last minute setup changes.

Keep Parc Ferme but have a 30 minute warm up - and perhaps allow 1 hour of working on the car before it goes back into Parc Ferme for the race.

It made sense in the days where you had to qualify with the fuel you were starting the race with, but that doesn't apply now. But at the same time we don't want to go back to the days where mechanics worked through Saturday night stripping down and rebuilding the entire car.

fandango
27th October 2010, 13:26
I also think that if they allowed a Sunday morning warm-up, and then set-up changes, they could do it with all teams having an obligation to report what changes they have made.

Or to make such changes in public - with cameras in the garages. It would give the TV show another angle, where the experts could explain the whys and whatnots of changes that are made. With Twitter, Live Timing etc becoming more and more a part of how we* watch F1, I think more real info like this would enhance the spectacle.

* us anoraks

schmenke
27th October 2010, 15:20
It doesn't have to be that complicated.
The parc fermé rule was introduced to eliminate teams from developing a single-qual spec engine, gearbox and other major components. These components are now sealed which are inspected by the FIA. The regulation can simply permit sunday morning changes without touching the major sealed components.

wedge
27th October 2010, 16:21
There should be a procedure in place so that when a wet race is declared Pare Ferme rules are abandoned.

Sonic
27th October 2010, 16:28
I also think that if they allowed a Sunday morning warm-up, and then set-up changes, they could do it with all teams having an obligation to report what changes they have made.

Or to make such changes in public - with cameras in the garages. It would give the TV show another angle, where the experts could explain the whys and whatnots of changes that are made. With Twitter, Live Timing etc becoming more and more a part of how we* watch F1, I think more real info like this would enhance the spectacle.

* us anoraks

Yeah baby!

I do miss those days. If I recall correctly Schumacher and his teams used to be masters of qualifying, say 3rd, on a sat and work like hell fire overnight to tweak their machine to jump the pack on Sunday. France 1994 springs to mind as an example.

steveaki13
27th October 2010, 23:30
I'd be for bringing back Sunday Warm Up and easing Parc Ferme rules.
There again I would be happy to go back to the old style GP weekend in many ways. i.e Hour long Quali with 12 laps, sunday warm up etc.
But of course this then allows teams to spend more, and push the smaller teams out again.

So all in all I think it needs to remain as it is. (With the execption of adjustments being allowed if its a wet race, I think this would be common sense).

Mark
28th October 2010, 09:23
So all in all I think it needs to remain as it is. (With the execption of adjustments being allowed if its a wet race, I think this would be common sense).

True, they could, say 30 minutes before the race look at the weather / weather reports and declare if the conditions are significantly different, or likely to be significantly different from qualifying and then allow teams to make changes as necessary.

This would also allow for situations where you have a wet qualifying but a dry race.

steveaki13
28th October 2010, 18:51
Yep