Massa will help Alonso! [Archive]

Bagwan

20th October 2010, 14:08

Massa , the mouse , has finally gotten the idea .
He , hopefully , will now handle the situation with some dignity .

He says he's no Rubens , but , just like Rubens , he sometimes has displayed a great deal of contempt for his employers .

There is no shame in being the number two if you are capable of really making a difference , helping your team to win . It is a team , after all .

Announcing that he will help his team-mate is vastly better than his recent pouting .

Good show , Felipe .
I hope you really do understand .

Ferrari have chosen Fernando to lead the charge this year .

And , they have chosen you to ride shot-gun .
Many others are available , and on short notice , to fill this role .
Take your seat , and impress them with your ability , and your loyalty .

That can make you number one .

pino

20th October 2010, 14:22

Ferrari have chosen Fernando to lead the charge this year .

And , they have chosen you to ride shot-gun .
Many others are available , and on short notice , to fill this role .
Take your seat , and impress them with your ability , and your loyalty .

That can make you number one .

:up:

Robinho

20th October 2010, 17:14

Massa will never, ever be the number one in a Ferrari, ever, mark my words.

Dave B

20th October 2010, 17:18

Ferrari have chosen Fernando to lead the charge this year .

No problem with a team supporting their fastest driver, Santader's millions made that decision for them before the season had even started.

Retro Formula 1

20th October 2010, 18:16

Massa will never, ever be the number one in a Ferrari, ever, mark my words.

Wow, amazing. What's your next prediction? That the Sun will come up tomorrow :D

I think the only person that disagrees with you is Massa; the poor, deluded, gullible young man.

Always thought he was too much of a gentle soul to drive for Ferrari.

truefan72

20th October 2010, 19:13

no surprise here. but shame
Massa's agent should be working overtime to get him a contract elsewhere.
If he thinks this year is troublesome. I can't imagine the situation next year.

52Paddy

20th October 2010, 20:09

"I want to be fighting with those five drivers who are chasing the title, which is the best thing I can do to help Fernando," Massa said.

It had been suggested Massa was not happy after effectively being labelled number two driver to Alonso

Massa said he was keen to get back on form in the last three races, starting this weekend in Korea, for both his own reasons and also the benefit of the team

I'm not convinced that Massa has retired to the number two seat yet. He's not happy with that label and wants to fight with the guys at the top. If his ability will allow him to, and his position on the track is substantially better than Alonso's, I think Massa's inner desire will continue on for the win next time. He wants a good result and, although the team need Fernando right up there, Massa's moral is itching for a win.

Dr. Krogshöj

20th October 2010, 20:16

driveace

20th October 2010, 20:19

The ONLY way that Fillipe is going to win ANY race this year with Ferrari is IF Alonso has already retired in that race,and that will be to take points off the others,and not let them get too far in front of Alonso point wise(And i pray that Alonso will not become world champion again this year)

fandango

20th October 2010, 21:59

And yet people have consisently underestimated Massa all through his career...

Sleeper

20th October 2010, 22:02

The only problem with this is does anyone actually think he'll be close enough to the top 5 to be of any help? I dont, he's not shown that kind of pace all year.

maxter

20th October 2010, 22:29

Why is it a news item now? It is natural that you help your teammate if he has a shot at title and you don't, you will help him with three races to go. He did it to Kimi in 2007 at Interlagos, Kimi did it to him in 2008 at Shanghai, why would it be different.
More importantly, why would anyone not do their best in a race? Cause that's about all Massa says in that article, and the fact that good performance from his side will be of benefit to Alonso and Ferrari as a whole isn't really news to anyone...

CNR

20th October 2010, 23:06

how by crashing out so he is one less car in the race ?
or winning the next 3 races taking 21 points from redbull ?

Duchess

21st October 2010, 02:09

"More importantly, I will be trying to bring home a significant number of points to help the Scuderia in its fight for both championships (drivers' and constructors').

Cute Felipe. As nice as it would be for you to help Fernando and shave off points from the competition, I really don't think you will be able to this year.

Massa leaves absolutely no impression on me and I think that's a sad state of affairs for an F1 driver, let alone a Ferrari driver.

Hawkmoon

21st October 2010, 02:35

Massa will never, ever be the number one in a Ferrari, ever, mark my words.

So I guess 2008 didn't count? :rolleyes:

Driver, out of contention for the title, declares he will help his title-contending team mate. Gee, never thought I'd see that in motorsport!

Koz

21st October 2010, 04:52

Wow, people are so short sighted... Alonso is no.1 because he has had better pace than Massa all season and Massa is well out of the title fight. If I were a team boss, and a driver who didn't have a chance at the c'ship wouldn't support the driver that did, he would be fired on the spot.

F1 is a team sport, not Alonso racing, not Massa racing, not Kimi racing, it's Scuderia Ferrari. Just like when Eddie was going up against Mika, who was the supporting driver that year, can anyone recall?

Who was the no.1 driver in Ferrari 2008-2009?
Had Massa been faster all season than Alonso, had better results, he wouldn't have been forced to be where he is now. It's his own fault. Look at all the other teams...

Say if Button is unable to win the c'ship and Lewis is, will Button try and help him or try taking him out of the race and the c'ship?

pino

21st October 2010, 07:53

So I guess 2008 didn't count? :rolleyes:

Driver, out of contention for the title, declares he will help his title-contending team mate. Gee, never thought I'd see that in motorsport!

Yes what a scandal...shame on Massa and Ferrari :down: :p :

Big Ben

21st October 2010, 07:54

Perhaps it's just Massa being smart. He has 2 choices. He either starts giving his best at Ferrari or move to another team and start his down hill way to his retirement. Massa is lucky he doesn't have some of you guys as his agent.... you would probably get him in a HRT in a couple of years.

ArrowsFA1

21st October 2010, 08:13

Take your seat , and impress them with your ability , and your loyalty .

That can make you number one .
It might, but then again if that was ever going to happen I think it would have done by now. Felipe served his Ferrari apprenticeship alongside Schumacher then so very nearly won the title alongside the highly paid Raikkonen. After 2008 Massa might have felt his time had come at Ferrari, but then along came Alonso.

I think Felipe's chance of leading Ferrari has been and gone. He can either settle in as a supporting act, or look to move elsewhere but I don't think he'll get a shot at the WDC again.

Dave B

21st October 2010, 08:59

Why is it a news item now? It is natural that you help your teammate if he has a shot at title and you don't, you will help him with three races to go.

Driver, out of contention for the title, declares he will help his title-contending team mate. Gee, never thought I'd see that in motorsport!
That's not unusual, you're both right.

However, I can't escape the feeling that Ferrari were going to support their investment no matter what, and that Alonso was their number one driver long before the season started. Poor Massa never stood a chance.

The one time he was in contention for a win, Ferrari cheated (and don't say they did not: the FIA and the WMSC both ruled that they used team orders) and poor Felipe was robbed.

At least when they shafted Irvine and Barrichello they were honest and upfront about it.

SGWilko

21st October 2010, 09:12

At least when they shafted Irvine and Barrichello they were honest and upfront about it.

But fair play to the Scuderia, they at least had the decency to shove wads of Lira up Irvine & Barrichello's rear ends........

Rubens may even have had some Euro's deposited also, lucky fella, eh? :D

Tumbo

21st October 2010, 09:14

Just like when Eddie was going up against Mika, who was the supporting driver that year, can anyone recall?

Well the 'supporting driver' was Salo during the 'supportive period' but end of the day we all remember 'that' tyre change which really did aid the championship battle ;)

SGWilko

21st October 2010, 09:16

Well the 'supporting driver' was Salo during the 'supportive period' but end of the day we all remember 'that' tyre change which really did aid the championship battle ;)

Ah yes, the three wheels on my wagon show.......

Arjuna

21st October 2010, 10:33

I think Felipe's chance of leading Ferrari has been and gone. He can either settle in as a supporting act, or look to move elsewhere but I don't think he'll get a shot at the WDC again.

Yes, his best chance was 2008, but we might forget that he played supportive role on Kimi a year before. He would not play submissive role all time, next year he can give better attempts in the first half of season as the approach of strategy is decided to a definitive point based on points collected by the drivers. :)

555-04Q2

21st October 2010, 11:01

So I guess 2008 didn't count? :rolleyes:

Driver, out of contention for the title, declares he will help his title-contending team mate. Gee, never thought I'd see that in motorsport!

Your thought process is far to rational for some people here to comprehend :p :

wedge

21st October 2010, 14:00

Why is it a news item now? It is natural that you help your teammate if he has a shot at title and you don't, you will help him with three races to go. He did it to Kimi in 2007 at Interlagos, Kimi did it to him in 2008 at Shanghai, why would it be different.

Massa threw his toys out of his pram (and yes, so did Alonso) because he was never chosen to be Ferrari's Golden Boy.

After the German GP he said he would not help Alonso and race for himself. Alonso, however, went on to repay Ferrari's faith whereas Massa, to put it bluntly, has been more chump than champ.

Firstgear

21st October 2010, 15:27

At least when they shafted Irvine and Barrichello they were honest and upfront about it.

And Irvine got his chance at No. 1 when MS broke his leg.

Massa should just shut up, and support Alonso for the remaining races this year. Next year he can try to beat Alonso on track early in the season so that Ferrari might treat him more fairly. After (should I say if?) that fails, then he can always hope for the type of chance Irvine had.

Tazio

21st October 2010, 17:42

'atta boy Felipe baby :s mokin:

May the forza be with you :p :

ioan

21st October 2010, 17:46

Why is it a news item now?

Good point.

ioan

21st October 2010, 17:48

The only problem with this is does anyone actually think he'll be close enough to the top 5 to be of any help? I dont, he's not shown that kind of pace all year.

:rolleyes:
How easily one forgets the GP that he was about to win if it wasn't for team orders, I wonder how that happened if "he's not shown that kind of pace all year."?

ioan

21st October 2010, 17:49

At least when they shafted Irvine and Barrichello they were honest and upfront about it.

Brawn and Todt are/were other kind of people than LdM and Domenicali.

ioan

21st October 2010, 17:50

Massa threw his toys out of his pram (and yes, so did Alonso) because he was never chosen to be Ferrari's Golden Boy.

So what exactly happened in 2008?! :rolleyes:

Never say never before thinking twice! :p

ioan

21st October 2010, 17:51

Well the 'supporting driver' was Salo during the 'supportive period' but end of the day we all remember 'that' tyre change which really did aid the championship battle ;)

And the 1999, Malaysian GP never happened?!

fandango

21st October 2010, 19:30

...However, I can't escape the feeling that Ferrari were going to support their investment no matter what, and that Alonso was their number one driver long before the season started. Poor Massa never stood a chance....snipped...

Ferrari's investment is in Ferrari, not in Alonso. Any Ferrari driver knows that the team is greater than any driver, so the fact that they have Alonso is because Alonso is good enough. I agree that they focus on one driver, and that his salary would mean that he SHOULD be the faster of the two, but Alonso still needed to take his place in the team and show his value to the team, not vice versa.

I find it surprising that other teams don't have the same self worth. I've mentioned in another thread that I believe that McLaren painted themselves into a corner by not being able to fire or threaten to fire Alonso when he stepped put of line, because all they had was an as yet unproven rookie with potential as an alternative (who has since obviously proved himself well).

But back to Massa. I think he has spent most of this season recovering from his accident last year. I remember it took Hakkinen a long time to get back to full strength years ago. It's not just speed over one lap. Perhaps this sounds too mysterious, but Massa has lacked something this season in the overall package that cannot be explained by tyres or his teammate or whatever. Just what I believe. And I've always been a fan of his, so I hope he gets back up there for next season.

Firstgear

21st October 2010, 19:57

[quote="fandango"]Perhaps this sounds too mysterious, but Massa has lacked something this season in the overall package that cannot be explained by tyres or his teammate or whatever.[quote]

What he's missing is a teammate who's indifferent to him, and not trying to undermine him. He had that in Kimi and he flourished. He did well under MS's wing as well.

Alonso is slicing & dicing him, and he doesn't have the wit or carisma to respond.

Tazio

21st October 2010, 20:17

The thing about FM's relationship with Mike was he knew he was #2
I just watched a replay of a 2006 GP I can't remember which one it was (I've watched so many lately) it was early-ish in the season, possibly Spain. The ITV announcer commented on how Massa put a disproportionate amount of miles on his tires in the set up stage to allow Mike to have two fresh sets of 'stones for the race, effectively having Massa give up any chance of winning before the race even started. Brawn and Todt were no more magnanimous than Stefano, and Co.

fandango

21st October 2010, 21:22

Perhaps this sounds too mysterious, but Massa has lacked something this season in the overall package that cannot be explained by tyres or his teammate or whatever.

What he's missing is a teammate who's indifferent to him, and not trying to undermine him. He had that in Kimi and he flourished. He did well under MS's wing as well.

Alonso is slicing & dicing him, and he doesn't have the wit or carisma to respond.

No way, you're underestimating Massa, as many others have done. Massa learns very fast...

Hawkmoon

21st October 2010, 22:07

:rolleyes:
How easily one forgets the GP that he was about to win if it wasn't for team orders, I wonder how that happened if "he's not shown that kind of pace all year."?

Alonso has been kicking Massa's arse all year. Sure Hockenheim has the exception but by then it was too late. Without those extra 7 points Alonso would be in territory closer to the McLaren drivers, which is effectively out of the running without a huge slice of luck.

Ferrari made the right decision in Germany.

gloomyDAY

21st October 2010, 22:12

Alonso has been kicking Massa's arse all year. Sure Hockenheim has the exception but by then it was too late. Without those extra 7 points Alonso would be in territory closer to the McLaren drivers, which is effectively out of the running without a huge slice of luck.

Ferrari made the right decision in Germany.I fully agree.

Who are we kidding? Aside from 2008, Massa was not WDC material and still isn't today.
Massa clearly demonstrated that to us on various occasions.

Sleeper

21st October 2010, 23:11

:rolleyes:
How easily one forgets the GP that he was about to win if it wasn't for team orders, I wonder how that happened if "he's not shown that kind of pace all year."?
Wow, thats 1 race, and as memory serves he was only ahead because of Vettel's overly robust, and failed, defending against Alonso off the line. Fair play to Felipe for keeping ahead as long as he did, but I cant help but feel that if Alonso had gotten into turn 1 first, he would have cleared off and left Massa for dead, just like he's done all year.

You know, the closer this title run in gets the more I feel that Ferrari were completely right to switch the order in Germany, it may give the team the title.

555-04Q2

22nd October 2010, 06:47

But back to Massa. I think he has spent most of this season recovering from his accident last year. I remember it took Hakkinen a long time to get back to full strength years ago. It's not just speed over one lap. Perhaps this sounds too mysterious, but Massa has lacked something this season in the overall package that cannot be explained by tyres or his teammate or whatever. Just what I believe. And I've always been a fan of his, so I hope he gets back up there for next season.

I have the same feelings. He did well during MS's last season with Ferrari (2006) and was brilliant in 2008 and 2009 up to his crash. Massa seems to be a different driver since his accident :(

wedge

22nd October 2010, 14:28

So what exactly happened in 2008?! :rolleyes:

Never say never before thinking twice! :p

Completely different circumstances.

Massa was a Golden Boy by default in 2008. It was Kimi who was struggling more as opposed to this season the driver who was struggling was Massa, and not to mention Ferrari this year were coming from a greater deficit and greater competition.

ioan

22nd October 2010, 17:25

Completely different circumstances.

Massa was a Golden Boy by default in 2008. It was Kimi who was struggling more as opposed to this season the driver who was struggling was Massa, and not to mention Ferrari this year were coming from a greater deficit and greater competition.

Excuses excuses. You said it never happened while the facts say otherwise. Why the need to try to explain the unexplainable?!

Garry Walker

23rd October 2010, 00:28

I fully agree.

Who are we kidding? Aside from 2008, Massa was not WDC material and still isn't today.
Massa clearly demonstrated that to us on various occasions.
Massa has one problem and that is that he needs to feel supported mentally to do well. That is his weakness. In that way, he is different from guys like Schumacher and Senna. But when supported completely, he is tremendous.
At current Ferrari he has known since day one that Santander is nr.1 driver and he is the designated nr.2. The German incident must have destroyed his self-belief completely and in a situation like this he is at his weakest.
Besides that, I dont think he is the same driver since last years accident anyway.