Korea in doubt - Ecclestone

[Ranger]

This would also be crucial for the title fight as well. Less chances for those behind to catch up after Suzuka.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86999

[Sonic]

Well I can't say I'm surprised. It didn't look ready from the video.

[maximilian]

Uuuuuuuuh... Ecclestone said just the opposite, too:

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=388551&FS=F1


So which is it? :P
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86999

[Dave B]

Has the final surface actually been laid? AFAIK it was only a temporary when Karun did his demo run.

[ShiftingGears]

AFAIK it was only a temporary when Karun did his demo run.

Indeed - there was another surface layer that needed to be added at the time of Chandhok's demo run.

[gloomyDAY]

Does the circus go straight to Japan if Korea is not ready?

That would be to the delight of the Red Bulls.

[ShiftingGears]

Does the circus go straight to Japan if Korea is not ready?

Japan is before Korea anyway - I think you mean Brazil. Surely they will have to cancel it for 2010 should it not be ready. Interlagos is only two weeks after the proposed Korean GP date as it is.

[steveaki13]

On the BBC forum, Ecclestone just said he was worried about Korea, but the officials there say it will go ahead. So at the moment he said he is trusting in those officials

[keysersoze]

On the BBC forum, Ecclestone just said he was worried about Korea, but the officials there say it will go ahead.

Of course, the officials would paint an optimistic picture.

[gloomyDAY]

Japan is before Korea anyway - I think you mean Brazil. Surely they will have to cancel it for 2010 should it not be ready. Interlagos is only two weeks after the proposed Korean GP date as it is.Yes, that's what I meant. Just skip Korea and head down to Brazil.

Shame, Korean track looked mighty fun to me!

[truefan72]

Of course, the officials would paint an optimistic picture.

of course bernie would paint a gloom picture
1. he probably wants to extract more money out o the officials for some minor infraction
2. he is trying his own sick version of drumming up pr for the race by casting dispersions and ensuing people will be talking about it.

To me it is quite sad really because he out of everyone should be protecting their reputation and telling anyone who would listen that he thinks it is all systems go.But he has probably gotten his money already and really doesn't care whatsoever. instead talking nonsense about medals when we are getting the most exciting season inf F1 with 5 contenders

[markabilly]

of course bernie would paint a gloom picture
1. he probably wants to extract more money out o the officials for some minor infraction
2. he is trying his own sick version of drumming up pr for the race by casting dispersions and ensuing people will be talking about it.

To me it is quite sad really because he out of everyone should be protecting their reputation and telling anyone who would listen that he thinks it is all systems go.But he has probably gotten his money already and really doesn't care whatsoever. instead talking nonsense about medals when we are getting the most exciting season inf F1 with 5 contenders
true, all too true...

but as to korea, well all i can say is..... :laugh: :crazy: :roll: :rotflmao: :angel:

[Dave B]

To answer my own earlier question, the top surface layer still hasn't been laid:


Charlie Whiting was due to inspect the track tomorrow [Tuesday 28th Sept], but decided there was no point for the rather fundamental reason that the top surface has not yet been completed. He is instead heading home, and will now go to Korea on the Monday after the Japanese GP.

Source and full story: http://adamcooperf1.com/2010/09/27/frustrated-f1-circus-waiting-for-korea-guidance/

What a shambles.

[Valve Bounce]

Maybe Bernie should have promised to give them a medal. :D

[Valve Bounce]

What people are not aware is the fact that Koreans like to take shortcuts. For example, they did not vibrate concrete pours because they get an extra 10% + of concrete volume that way. The deck on the Taegu bridge lasted 5 years and had to be removed and re-poured.

Compacters were not used on road pavement construction if it could be avoided because if they ran trucks and busses on the newly spread earth embankment, the compaction is free and they save on fuel for teh compactors.

I think you get the picture.

I remember our site Consultant Chuck Colsen told the Korean Government Project Engineer that there was a huge void beneath the Bridge footing in the stream, and he wanted to take the Korean Engineer to site to show him the hole. The reply was: "there is no hole, so there is no need for me to go with you".

[Dave B]

Valve old chap, with your experience and knowledge perhaps you could answer this. What's the likely effect of running racing cars for three days on such a new surface, even assuming it's been laid properly on sound foundations? Does the tarmac need a certain time to cure or anything?

[Valve Bounce]

When I was working there, I saw that the contractor was spraying the tack coat at a rate about ten times too much, and the tar was just oozing on the surface. I advised the project engineer not to lay the pavement surface layer but he told me I was wrong. I returned to Seoul, he laid the next pavement layer, it simply oozed all over the place as soon as it was trafficked and he had to remove the whole pavement layer and start again.

Going back to your question, if it is an ashphalt layer, then it does not need to be cured after it is properly rolled. But there are such things as the pavement layer's mix, where the stability of the layer depends on teh mix, voids ration, grading and percentage bitumen and of course the Marshall Stability of the mix. This goes into teh design of the mix, and the quality control of the grading, temperature and % bitumen during batching, then proper laying and compaction of the material when it is delivered on site.

One of my Canadian friends know all about this. I can't remember if it was Bagwan or one of the other guys. But it is absolutely necessary for the pavement layer to be stable or you will get rippling under loads (like high speed braking or accelration) and heaving of the pavement surface.

Very, very sorry for this detailed but totally boring post as most guys here would just say that Valve Bounce is rattling again.

I almost forgot: if the temperature control during batching or placement was poor, the pavement surface can actually break up under trafficking.

[MrJan]

Very, very sorry for this detailed but totally boring post as most guys here would just say that Valve Bounce is rattling again.

Far from it, chap. It's nice to have a bit of a knowledgable view rather than people just slating new things in F1 because they hate new things in F1. It's also nice to see a post from you that doesn't mention Mark Webber ;) :p :

[Valve Bounce]

Far from it, chap. It's nice to have a bit of a knowledgable view rather than people just slating new things in F1 because they hate new things in F1. It's also nice to see a post from you that doesn't mention Mark Webber ;) :p :

I never mentioned that I am Portuguese and Spanish by decent, and Fernando has been one of my favorite drivers since he qualified that Minardi at Albert Park.

[Bagwan]

One of my Canadian friends know all about this. I can't remember if it was Bagwan or one of the other guys.

Sorry , not me , Valve .
I just drive on da stuff .

[Mark]

There's still plenty of time to put the final surface down. As Valve indicates, it all depends on the sub-surface layers that have already been put down, and if these are up to scratch.

Certainly for just a top surface you could (almost) lay it in the morning and race on it in the afternoon if you needed to.

But the important thing here is that it's inspected properly and before Japan so teams know when they leave which track they are going to and more importantly how many races there are!

We must not have a situation where they try to race, then have problems and it degenerates into a farce a-la Indianapolis.

In previous years a calendar would usually include a reserve venue in case one of the venues couldn't be raced at. Is there no chance of that happening this time? Or to race somewhere else?

[Tazio]

There's still plenty of time to put the final surface down. As Valve indicates, it all depends on the sub-surface layers that have already been put down, and if these are up to scratch.

Certainly for just a top surface you could (almost) lay it in the morning and race on it in the afternoon if you needed to.

But the important thing here is that it's inspected properly and before Japan so teams know when they leave which track they are going to and more importantly how many races there are!

We must not have a situation where they try to race, then have problems and it degenerates into a farce a-la Indianapolis.

In previous years a calendar would usually include a reserve venue in case one of the venues couldn't be raced at. Is there no chance of that happening this time? Or to race somewhere else?This may be a bit of a reach, but if the surface ends up flawed, and it is degraded during the race weekend it will most likely be a Ferrari conspiracy, as they handle bumpy surfaces better that McLaren, and the Bulls are more fragile than the F10 :p :
:grenade:

[UltimateDanGTR]

This may be a bit of a reach, but if the surface ends up flawed, and it is degraded during the race weekend it will most likely be a Ferrari conspiracy, as they handle bumpy surfaces better that McLaren, and the Bulls are more fragile than the F10 :p :
:grenade:

true. I think ferrari have made the koreans slow construction for this reason :p

[gloomyDAY]

In previous years a calendar would usually include a reserve venue in case one of the venues couldn't be raced at. Is there no chance of that happening this time? Or to race somewhere else?Albert Park Part Deux!

[Mark]

You couldn't race at Albert Park again but one of the permanent circuits would be no problem. But it seems in this case it will just be cancelled.

[MrJan]

In previous years a calendar would usually include a reserve venue in case one of the venues couldn't be raced at. Is there no chance of that happening this time? Or to race somewhere else?

Donnington ;)

[Sonic]

Jerez held a race in place of a cancelled GP didn't they? However it's a bit short notice to do something like that again.

Better to cancel it.

[ioan]

There's still plenty of time to put the final surface down. As Valve indicates, it all depends on the sub-surface layers that have already been put down, and if these are up to scratch.

Certainly for just a top surface you could (almost) lay it in the morning and race on it in the afternoon if you needed to.

But the important thing here is that it's inspected properly and before Japan so teams know when they leave which track they are going to and more importantly how many races there are!

We must not have a situation where they try to race, then have problems and it degenerates into a farce a-la Indianapolis.

In previous years a calendar would usually include a reserve venue in case one of the venues couldn't be raced at. Is there no chance of that happening this time? Or to race somewhere else?

Shanghai wouldn't be too far away, however I am fairly sure that the Korean GP track will be ready in time.
Laying 4 kms of tarmac doesn't need more than 1 day of work.

[ioan]

Yikes, they work fast in your part of the world ioan.. :p :

We just need Brundle to make a 'Pikey' comment about this one.. :D

They use machines around here, not pikey's! :p

[Tazio]

We just need Brundle to make a 'Pikey' comment about this one.. :D

...........I just can't say it. :s mokin:

[Valve Bounce]

Shanghai wouldn't be too far away, however I am fairly sure that the Korean GP track will be ready in time.
Laying 4 kms of tarmac doesn't need more than 1 day of work.

You're quite right - 4 km of asphalt in one day should be no problems if the right machinery like paver spreaders and rollers are available. In fact, if a Red Bull has already lapped the circuit, the track should already be OK. So we really don't know what the issues really are.

[ioan]

You're quite right - 4 km of asphalt in one day should be no problems if the right machinery like paver spreaders and rollers are available. In fact, if a Red Bull has already lapped the circuit, the track should already be OK. So we really don't know what the issues really are.

The issue is that only the grandstands + the pit lane and garages are ready, not that we need more in order to have a motor race.

[CNR]

Albert Park Part Deux!
http://www.goldcoast.com.au/gold-coast-600.html


THE Australian V8 Supercars Series headlines this three-day Supercarnivale festival of motoring, gorgeous girls, parades,concerts and parties. Gold Coast 600 will be held on October 22-24, 2010.

i an sure it would fit in with this f1 on the goldcoast

[Valve Bounce]

The issue is that only the grandstands + the pit lane and garages are ready, not that we need more in order to have a motor race.

ioan, I don't have the facts unfortunately. I do remember that the organisers took helluva long time, weeks actually, to erect the safety fencing at Albert Park. So I don't know what Bernie and the other teams are concerned about, but it must be serious if they think it would affect the running of the GP this year.

[Easy Drifter]

I have yet to see a surface (except for concrete) that has not had at the absolute minimum of a month to cure stand up to race cars.
I have seen two tracks almost completely fall apart and several recently repaved corners come apart. Look at Mtl. in 2009.
They would be better off not actually laying the final coat.
A little known fact is that Mosport was raced on for over twenty years on an underlayer. The money was not there to pay for the planned final layer!
Mosport came close to bankrupting Beamish Construction who are today one of Canada's largest road construction companies. They did not get paid for a lot of work.

[Valve Bounce]

I have yet to see a surface (except for concrete) that has not had at the absolute minimum of a month to cure stand up to race cars.
I have seen two tracks almost completely fall apart and several recently repaved corners come apart. Look at Mtl. in 2009.
They would be better off not actually laying the final coat.

.

That's because the wearing course is usually 3/8 inch max aggregate, and doesn't have the Marshall stability of the coarser 3/4 inch or 1.5 inch base course.

[Mark]

Presumably the suction affect caused by passing F1 cars will test the tarmac surface more than ordinary cars would? Although I suspect somewhat less than HGVs!

[Valve Bounce]

Presumably the suction affect caused by passing F1 cars will test the tarmac surface more than ordinary cars would? Although I suspect somewhat less than HGVs!

The thing that will test the asphalt surface will be the braking and acceleration and cornering loads. And if it does rain, then the effect of running those loads over a wet surface will have an additional buggering-up effect. If the wearing course is not 100%, it could break up under wet conditions.

I really don't want to go into a helluva lot of pavement design/construction details, as it would bore the hell out of everyone. Suffice to say that I have looked after pavement construction in three different countries, including setting up a quality control system for Melbourne. So all I say is not all BS. :D

[truefan72]

Very, very sorry for this detailed but totally boring post as most guys here would just say that Valve Bounce is rattling again.

not at all. very informative indeed. I know feel much smarter :)

[SGWilko]

When I was working there, I saw that the contractor was spraying the tack coat at a rate about ten times too much, and the tar was just oozing on the surface. I advised the project engineer not to lay the pavement surface layer but he told me I was wrong. I returned to Seoul, he laid the next pavement layer, it simply oozed all over the place as soon as it was trafficked and he had to remove the whole pavement layer and start again.

Going back to your question, if it is an ashphalt layer, then it does not need to be cured after it is properly rolled. But there are such things as the pavement layer's mix, where the stability of the layer depends on teh mix, voids ration, grading and percentage bitumen and of course the Marshall Stability of the mix. This goes into teh design of the mix, and the quality control of the grading, temperature and % bitumen during batching, then proper laying and compaction of the material when it is delivered on site.

One of my Canadian friends know all about this. I can't remember if it was Bagwan or one of the other guys. But it is absolutely necessary for the pavement layer to be stable or you will get rippling under loads (like high speed braking or accelration) and heaving of the pavement surface.

Very, very sorry for this detailed but totally boring post as most guys here would just say that Valve Bounce is rattling again.

I almost forgot: if the temperature control during batching or placement was poor, the pavement surface can actually break up under trafficking.

You want to spend a little time over here and show the muppets in the Highways Agency how to lay a road properly.

Mind you, some cupid stunt would be round within a week digging it up to replace a pipe.............

[Mark]

You want to spend a little time over here and show the muppets in the Highways Agency how to lay a road properly.

Mind you, some idiot type person would be round within a week digging it up to replace a pipe.............

Not on Highways Agency roads they won't. You can't just dig up a trunk road willy or indeed, nilly.

[Dave B]

http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/bilder/cat.php?c=10yeongamlok3

Oh. That's not good

[ioan]

http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/bilder/cat.php?c=10yeongamlok3

Oh. That's not good

Looks like they have some not very bright guys over there too.
I guess they will have to hire a new machine and a guy who knows how to operate it properly.

[steveaki13]

:dozey: :rolleyes: :eek: :confused:

[nigelred5]

http://www.goldcoast.com.au/gold-coast-600.html



i an sure it would fit in with this f1 on the goldcoast


I'd LOVE to see F1 at Surfers. Of all the Stree courses Indycars have run on, I'd say that was the event F1 was most envious of, even more than Long Beach.

[Tazio]

http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/bilder/cat.php?c=10yeongamlok3

Oh. That's not good :laugh: I guess it depends on your perspective.
I think that cancelled or not It works against Ferrari's interest.
:s ailor: Especially at the rate that "The Boss" is conserving engines :D

[steveaki13]

:s ailor: Especially at the rate that "The Boss" is conserving engines :D

Ah of course I knew there must have been a tactic in all this. ;)

[Big Ben]

You want to spend a little time over here and show the muppets in the Highways Agency how to lay a road properly.

Mind you, some cupid stunt would be round within a week digging it up to replace a pipe.............

That's bs man... Usually it's because someone forgot his hammer there

[Valve Bounce]

Must have tried to pass Mark Webber down the inside. :p : :D :rotflmao:

[K-Pu]

Going back to Korea... would it be profitable (the magic word) if they open the track just for racing?

I mean, what happens if you don´t have all the luxury hotels, flashy lights and alien-like unneccesary bits? Seeing how they have designed the newest tracks, the most important thing seems to be the money-attracting facilities, not the track itself. Take for example Valencia, which "was going" to be used as a part of the city, the enormous waste of money at Shangai and the ultimate nexus of adult entreteinment (AKA bitch-house) at Abu Dhabi. And then compare it with an unfinished Tilkodrome... And always supposing they will be able to race there, because if there is no race, maybe Korea has made a truly triumphant investment with an unused track and a good fee for Bernie to convince him to bring F1 back again.

And as always, if they want to finish the track it is as easy as pouring money into it. They should calculate what is more expensive, the race or the no-race...

[Valve Bounce]

Going back to Korea... would it be profitable (the magic word) if they open the track just for racing?

I mean, what happens if you don´t have all the luxury hotels, flashy lights and alien-like unneccesary bits? Seeing how they have designed the newest tracks, the most important thing seems to be the money-attracting facilities, not the track itself. Take for example Valencia, which "was going" to be used as a part of the city, the enormous waste of money at Shangai and the ultimate nexus of adult entreteinment (AKA bitch-house) at Abu Dhabi. And then compare it with an unfinished Tilkodrome... And always supposing they will be able to race there, because if there is no race, maybe Korea has made a truly triumphant investment with an unused track and a good fee for Bernie to convince him to bring F1 back again.

And as always, if they want to finish the track it is as easy as pouring money into it. They should calculate what is more expensive, the race or the no-race...

The could form rice paddies in the infield in the summer months, and then when the paddies are frozen over in winter, hire them out as ice skating facillities.

[52Paddy]

What the hell is going on with that truck?

[SGWilko]

What the hell is going on with that truck?

Apparently, they were trying to extracate JPM from his car......... :p

[Azumanga Davo]

Definitely got one heck of a 60 foot launch, that truck.

Hired the truck from Delhi, probably...

[gloomyDAY]

Is this race going to happen or what?

I'm a little confused as to what's going on since there hasn't been an update.


Apparently, they were trying to extracate JPM from his car......... :p :laugh:

[ioan]

Apparently, they were trying to extracate JPM from his car......... :p

:rotflmao:

[ioan]

Going back to Korea... would it be profitable (the magic word) if they open the track just for racing?

I mean, what happens if you don´t have all the luxury hotels, flashy lights and alien-like unneccesary bits? Seeing how they have designed the newest tracks, the most important thing seems to be the money-attracting facilities, not the track itself. Take for example Valencia, which "was going" to be used as a part of the city, the enormous waste of money at Shangai and the ultimate nexus of adult entreteinment (AKA bitch-house) at Abu Dhabi. And then compare it with an unfinished Tilkodrome... And always supposing they will be able to race there, because if there is no race, maybe Korea has made a truly triumphant investment with an unused track and a good fee for Bernie to convince him to bring F1 back again.

And as always, if they want to finish the track it is as easy as pouring money into it. They should calculate what is more expensive, the race or the no-race...

The track wasn't built with profit in mind.
The GP is being hosted in order to promote Korea and to develop the region where the track is situated.

[truefan72]

http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/bilder/cat.php?c=10yeongamlok3

Oh. That's not good

ok now I am concerned

why are they not working 24/7 over there?
place seems deserted in the middle of the day.

say what you want about Abu Dhabi or Bahrain but when they need get things done they get i done, and deliver a world class facilty.

[Mark]

Jerez held a race in place of a cancelled GP didn't they?

Not that I can remember, but I can't rule it out if it was before about 1993!
The last race at Jerez was in 1997 and that was planned from the start so that Renault could have their last ever race in F1 in Europe :p

Since then Jerez has often appeared as a 'reserve' race, but I suspect it wouldn't be up to standard at the moment.

To be fair, putting on a Grand Prix, even for a permanent facility is a huge undertaking and most places are going to need a few months notice to get ready, so it's going to be Korea or nothing now!

[ShiftingGears]

Not that I can remember, but I can't rule it out if it was before about 1993!
The last race at Jerez was in 1997 and that was planned from the start so that Renault could have their last ever race in F1 in Europe :p

Since then Jerez has often appeared as a 'reserve' race, but I suspect it wouldn't be up to standard at the moment.

To be fair, putting on a Grand Prix, even for a permanent facility is a huge undertaking and most places are going to need a few months notice to get ready, so it's going to be Korea or nothing now!

Close. It replaced the Argentine Grand Prix in 1994. It is worth noting that the race was called off in June - several months before the scheduled race in October.

[52Paddy]

The last race at Jerez was in 1997 and that was planned from the start so that Renault could have their last ever race in F1 in Europe :p



Well, as far as I know, Jerez actually replaced Estoril that year because the Portuguese had financial difficulties.

[K-Pu]

Anyway, having a reserve track should be not that difficult, since in MotoGP they have reserve tracks and they seem to be ok with it.

For example Motorland is a reserve track, used this year while we wait for the new track in Hungary, and I think it could host an F1 race without much trouble, since it is another Tilkodrome.

[steveaki13]

Would the teams be able to get everything organised, to get all equipment from Japan to a new venue.

They must all have plans in place for the move to Korea.

[Dave B]

It's not that simple. Airline reservations, hotel bookings, car hire, truck hire, casual and temporary labour hire, catering, promotional activites, sponsor activity, equipment rental, parking for thousands of cars, marshalling, ticketing, broadcasting... there's a reason most of this stuff gets planned up to a year in advance.

[ioan]

It's not that simple. Airline reservations, hotel bookings, car hire, truck hire, casual and temporary labour hire, catering, promotional activites, sponsor activity, equipment rental, parking for thousands of cars, marshalling, ticketing, broadcasting... there's a reason most of this stuff gets planned up to a year in advance.

They could hold a race without spectators.

[SGWilko]

They could hold a race without spectators.

Indeed, Turkey already does that...... :D

[Retro Formula 1]

How comes when I pointed out that Keroa were looking dubious, I got criticised for picking on the poor little chappies ;)

[SGWilko]

How comes when I pointed out that Keroa were looking dubious, I got criticised for picking on the poor little chappies ;)

It's only Kim Jong Il that is little, isn't it? ;)

[Dave B]

They could hold a race without spectators.
Almost everything on my list would still be required.

[Firstgear]

I recognize that crane operator, he used to be a donkey cart driver.

[ioan]

Almost everything on my list would still be required.

They sure have everything on your list in Shanghai, plenty of hotels, plenty of workforce, plenty of everything! And it isn't far from Japan and Korea.

Not that Bernie would ever do something that would make sense for the fans but not for his pocket.

[maximilian]

If they were to move to an alternate venue, how about Fuji or Okayama?

[52Paddy]

If they were to move to an alternate venue, how about Fuji or Okayama?

Or Aida ;)

[Valve Bounce]

It's not that simple. Airline reservations, hotel bookings, car hire, truck hire, casual and temporary labour hire, catering, promotional activites, sponsor activity, equipment rental, parking for thousands of cars, marshalling, ticketing, broadcasting... there's a reason most of this stuff gets planned up to a year in advance.

Not to mention the safety fencing, which takes quite a long time to install properly.

[maximilian]

Or Aida ;)
Aida was renamed Okayama in 2005 :cool:

[gloomyDAY]

*Tick tock*

Only 3 weeks before the race is supposed to take place.

*Tick tock*

[SGWilko]

*Tick tock*

Only 3 weeks before the race is supposed to take place.

*Tick tock*

They could turn it into a driver marathon, and just do a 26.25 mile run round the circuit devoid of cars.

Heck, one of the new boys might steal a point or two....... ;)

[DexDexter]

It's very odd that they did't know this coming months ago, they could have postponed the race to next year and chosen another venue...

When in doubt, leave it out.

[52Paddy]

Aida was renamed Okayama in 2005 :cool:

Oh, I wasn't aware! What an awful track (judging by the 1994/95 races). Has it changed much since?

[jens]

I think that as long as the track exists and has got tarmac, they should try to race in Korea. There may not be all that needed stuff around the circuit, but then again... it would be kinda cool to have an old-school Grand Prix again with simple means as opposed to the usual modern high-tech circuit infrastructure. :p :

[Duchess]

I really do hope this race goes forward for a couple reasons: 1 I don't want my F1 enjoyment to be delayed a weekend!! Especially not this season and so close to the end, I'll gnaw my fingers off with anxiety (but I'm sure Webber would be thrilled) 2 It would absolutely kill the credibility of Korea within the sport and have serious backlash, very harmful in a burgeoning market for motorsport. I'm pretty sure the latter is why Bernie's been pushing this forward for so long in the first place.

*crosses fingers*

[Tazio]

I really do hope this race goes forward for a couple reasons: 1 I don't want my F1 enjoyment to be delayed a weekend!! Especially not this season and so close to the end, I'll gnaw my fingers off with anxiety (but I'm sure Webber would be thrilled) 2 It would absolutely kill the credibility of Korea within the sport and have serious backlash, very harmful in a burgeoning market for motorsport. I'm pretty sure the latter is why Bernie's been pushing this forward for so long in the first place.

*crosses fingers*

Welcome to the forum!!
We can use all the Alonso fans we can get.

P.S. :s ailor: I know some relaxation techniques ;) :D

[Valve Bounce]

Welcome to the forum!!
We can use all the Alonso fans we can get.

P.S. :s ailor: I know some relaxation techniques ;) :D

Oh! Please!! :rolleyes:

[Tazio]

Oh! Please!! :rolleyes:

Begging will do you no good.
You'll just have to wait your turn! :s ailor:

[Duchess]

Heh thanks. And to be completely fair, I'm a fan of most of the drivers currently racing.

[maximilian]

Heh thanks. And to be completely fair, I'm a fan of most of the drivers currently racing.
So which ones are NOT on the list, then? :D

[Tazio]

Heh thanks. And to be completely fair, I'm a fan of most of the drivers currently racing.I admire them all as well.
However, there is a lot of anti-Alonso sentiment on this forum.
Saying nice things about him may rusult in a horses head being deposited on your bed by the Anglo/Mafia! :eek: :)




BTW being comepletely fair is unacceptable on this forum! :laugh:

[Duchess]

LOL The warning is noted...guess I better not say who's on my Naughty list :P

[Tazio]

LOL The warning is noted...guess I better not say who's on my Naughty list :P
Are you on your own naughty list? :dog: ;)

[Ari]

LOL The warning is noted...guess I better not say who's on my Naughty list :P

Naughty list?

Are you hot? :p

[Garry Walker]

Hopefully none of the semen flying around this thread will hit me in the eye.

[52Paddy]

More importantly, are you female?

[Retro Formula 1]

Or a potato?

BTW Tazio. I assume you know nothing of history or are an master in irony ;)

The legacy which is Rothschild is hardly British from it's origins on the slums of Frankfurt and being installed in most European major finance centers.

Still, the two main families were installed in Austria and London so the richest European dynasty was obviously British :laugh:

[Tazio]

It was the only google image that I could find with a referance to a "syndicate" in England.
Don't get all serious on me. ;)

[Retro Formula 1]

It was the only google image that I could find with a referance to a "syndicate" in England.
Don't get all serious on me. ;)

Would that make us the Angloish syndicated by Jewis German / Austrian and just about every other European Nation Mafia ;)

[Tazio]

Would that make us the Angloish syndicated by Jewis German / Austrian and just about every other European Nation Mafia ;) You forgot to mention The Illuminati! :laugh:

http://www.fimdostempos.net/images/IlluminatiPyramid.jpg
The Anglo-mob only exist on these boards
They are the British F1 enthusiasts
I'm sure that if I spoke Spanish or Italian I would find more one-sided arguments than I do here on their boards.
It's just blatant because there are so many of them. For the most part however the arguements being made are mostly reasonable points.
From a British perspective ;)

[52Paddy]

Or a potato?

:lips:

[Tazio]

:lips: I see someone has his priorities straight :p

[pino]

Please keep it on topic :)

[Ranger]

Apparently yesterday was final inspection D-day. Any news? :confused:

[maximilian]

No, it's "the day after Sunday's Japanese GP -- just 11 days prior to opening practice in Korea." - so, yet to come.

[I am evil Homer]

I quite like the track on F1 2010 game ha ha....it's pretty bland but it was easy to get pole and win!

[maximilian]

I quite like the track on F1 2010 game ha ha....it's pretty bland but it was easy to get pole and win!
Was it finished in the game, or did they leave out some things to add realism? :D

[Tazio]

The last crucial element is the top layer of surface asphalt, with other less important things likely to go unfinished.

"The inspection team may put first priority on safety and appropriateness of the race track ahead of other factors such as cleanliness and makeshift stands," Kim admitted.

Work on the final surface layer began on Tuesday and will take six days - exactly the time available until Charlie Whiting arrives at the venue direct from Suzuka.

http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-korea-to-complete-track-day-before-fia-inspection/

This is cutting it very close
I see this surface turning into a mess.
Is two weeks long enough for asphalt to cure for F-1 racing?

[I am evil Homer]

Was it finished in the game, or did they leave out some things to add realism? :D

Nice smooth surface ha ha.....

[Retro Formula 1]

Don't know what everyones so worried about.

Autosport did a flyover to get an ariel pic and everything looks OK to me
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
http://www.dirtbikefanatic.com/images/motocross-track-blueprints.jpg

[Easy Drifter]

It is highly unlikely that the surface will cure properly in that time frame.
It might not actually break up but I expect the acceleration areas and possibly the braking areas will roll and become very washboardy.
They have admitted that grandstands and other buildings likely will not be complete and that the place will be dirty, probably with construction debris and building materials.
Even if the race goes ahead, and since Bernie wants it, it likely will, it really should have been cancelled for this year.

[I am evil Homer]

It can't be cancelled...it would totally screw up the title fight. Unless the FIA mandates Japan holding two races - which could be possible.

[UltimateDanGTR]

If the race goes ahead.....I wouldn't bet against it being one of the most shambolic events in F1 history.

still, I do hope it goes ahead-we need it for the title fight.

[Firstgear]

I see this surface turning into a mess.
Is two weeks long enough for asphalt to cure for F-1 racing?

How different can asphalt for a race track be? Normal asphalt doesn't need to 'cure' like concete would - only cool down. As long as they get the mix right, and installed properly (put down at right temp, rolled etc..) it should be ok. I think Valve Bounce went into some detail on this a few pages back.

[Malbec]

If the race goes ahead.....I wouldn't bet against it being one of the most shambolic events in F1 history.

Which is odd since the Koreans have proven themselves more than capable of organising large sporting events decades ago, both the Seoul olympics and the 2002 world cup went without a hitch.

They are intelligent enough to realise how a poorly prepared race will look like on the international stage, especially straight after another decently organised race in Japan which would be doubly humiliating. Also it comes off the back of extremely well organised new races in countries the Koreans look down on such as China and Malaysia.

I wonder who exactly is behind organising the Korean race, I presume its not strongly supported by the state if its been left to the last minute like this.

[Tazio]

How different can asphalt for a race track be? Normal asphalt doesn't need to 'cure' like concete would - only cool down. As long as they get the mix right, and installed properly (put down at right temp, rolled etc..) it should be ok. I think Valve Bounce went into some detail on this a few pages back.I wasn't suggesting that F1 has its own formula for asphalt only asked if it would stand up to the demands put on it by its cars. :)

[Firstgear]

would stand up to the demands put on it by its cars. :)
If there are specific concerns regarding F1 demands/loads it should be taken into consideration with the asphalt mix (recipe) but shouldn't affect curing time.

Sorry if my previous post sounded aggresive, it wasn't meant to be.

My concerns with leaving it this late would be weather &/or paving errors. If rain delays asphalt placing for a few days - and is perhaps coupled with a bad batch of asphalt or poorly placed/rolled asphalt that needs to be ripped out & replaced - we could run out of time.

[Easy Drifter]

The demands put on asphalt by F1 cars far far exceeds that of those on a normal road. The loads put down when a F1 car is on max acceleration or braking are immense.
I have seen tracks where the asphalt had been raced on, and in one case for a couple of years, when F. Atlantic cars created washboard because of the torque downloads put on the surface.
Todays F1 cars put down far more force.
I am not saying it will happen but I very much fear it will.
Toronto had to go to concrete in some corners because the Indy cars tore up the ashphalt and that was on well cured stuff.

[UltimateDanGTR]

Which is odd since the Koreans have proven themselves more than capable of organising large sporting events decades ago, both the Seoul olympics and the 2002 world cup went without a hitch.

They are intelligent enough to realise how a poorly prepared race will look like on the international stage, especially straight after another decently organised race in Japan which would be doubly humiliating. Also it comes off the back of extremely well organised new races in countries the Koreans look down on such as China and Malaysia.

I wonder who exactly is behind organising the Korean race, I presume its not strongly supported by the state if its been left to the last minute like this.

This is very true, I presume the South Korean government will not be impressed by the detriment it could do to Korean organisation abilities after it's great reputation from events you stated.

[ykiki]

If the race goes ahead.....I wouldn't bet against it being one of the most shambolic events in F1 history.

Can't be as bad as the USGP tire scandal - now THAT was shambolic!

Back to Korea, as much as we're all concerned about the track surface I'm also worried that some of the safety infrastructure will get "overlooked" thanks to the time crunch.

[52Paddy]

I hope it goes ahead for the sake of the title and, if it does, I do expect it to be a problematic event. But, I like events which have a dark cloud hanging over them and create, not just controversy, but perhaps history. It's a welcome stray from the normal formation to an F1 weekend.

However, all the while, the safety aspect must not be hampered.

[Big Ben]

I hopes the track is ok and the event goes ahead. I don't care about stands, hotels or if they have to eat hotdogs... I know they all live really hard lives but what can I say... tough luck

[Valve Bounce]

I hope it goes ahead for the sake of the title and, if it does, I do expect it to be a problematic event. But, I like events which have a dark cloud hanging over them and create, not just controversy, but perhaps history. It's a welcome stray from the normal formation to an F1 weekend.

However, all the while, the safety aspect must not be hampered.

So why aren't you in Delhi? :D

[Tazio]

:s ailor:

[52Paddy]

So why aren't you in Delhi? :D

:confused: Monsoon season?

[Valve Bounce]

:confused: Monsoon season?

Should be right up your alley, together with Delhi Belly. :eek:

[ioan]

How different can asphalt for a race track be? Normal asphalt doesn't need to 'cure' like concete would - only cool down. As long as they get the mix right, and installed properly (put down at right temp, rolled etc..) it should be ok. I think Valve Bounce went into some detail on this a few pages back.

Exactly.

[Robinho]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/87304

Bernie now says race is on, the top layer is laid and the kerbs installed, looks much better, hopefully all is going to be fine

[Easy Drifter]

Well at least David Hobbs and Steve Matchett agree with me that there is a distinct possibility of the track surface breaking up or washboarding.

[ioan]

Well at least David Hobbs and Steve Matchett agree with me that there is a distinct possibility of the track surface breaking up or washboarding.

There is always a possibility for everything.

What bothers me most is how many people clearly want this race not to take place, it's sickening.

Anyway the race will take place by the looks of it, which is what I expected.

[Tazio]

How many? :rolleyes:
And where is your link?

[ioan]

How many? :rolleyes:


I'll let you count them. :p

[Tazio]

I'll let you count them. :p

A quick check yeilded zero on this forum.
There were several that said maybe it should be moved.
For instance:


They sure have everything on your list in Shanghai, plenty of hotels, plenty of workforce, plenty of everything! And it isn't far from Japan and Korea.

Not that Bernie would ever do something that would make sense for the fans but not for his pocket.

;)

[ioan]

A quick check yeilded zero on this forum.
There were several that said maybe it should be moved.
For instance:


;)

That's unfair, I only said that it can be moved if needed. :o

[Dave B]

Some pictures have been released of the track with its surface laid. Joe Saward's blog has some good shots which you can click to enlarge:

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2010/10/11/all-about-the-korean-gp/

The surface itself looks ok, so far as one can tell from a photo, but the rest of the place is a building site. I imagine the race, should it happen, will be entertaining but I wouldn't want to be a spectator or team member.

[Valve Bounce]

Well at least David Hobbs and Steve Matchett agree with me that there is a distinct possibility of the track surface breaking up or washboarding.

Unless either David Hobbs and Steve Matchett has access to the design mix, and test results on voids ratio and Marshall stability, and compacted density, then they are just making blind statements.

From the pictures provided in the post above, it does appear that the right equipment for laying the surface is being used, and there appears to be plenty of rollers. The autosport report says the final layer has been laid, and there is plenty of time for rolling and any curing of the asphalt. We used to open freeways to traffic much sooner than the 10 days available from today before P1.

We are not talking about miles and miles of freeway - this, by comparison, is a very short piece of road. So if the Koreans have done their job correctly (and I have no reason to say otherwise) then I would expect the track to be OK. Time will tell, but lets not make hasty accusations based on nothingness!

[Mark]

From the pictures provided in the post above, it does appear that the right equipment for laying the surface is being used, and there appears to be plenty of rollers. The autosport report says the final layer has been laid, and there is plenty of time for rolling and any curing of the asphalt. We used to open freeways to traffic much sooner than the 10 days available from today before P1.
!

Of course motorways are a different story, they have to cope with heavy loads from lorries etc. Whereas F1 cars create a different set of forces. But you're right, in the scheme of things an F1 track is short and relatively simple.

Does make you wonder how near here they had to close a road for a week to resurface a 1 mile long stretch of single carriageway, then a month later had to close it again as they've done it wrong!

[Retro Formula 1]

There is always a possibility for everything.

What bothers me most is how many people clearly want this race not to take place, it's sickening.

Anyway the race will take place by the looks of it, which is what I expected.

What's frustrating is people making silly accusations that have no basis in fact.

Who doesn't want Korea to go ahead in principal and if Korea isn't capable of providing a safe and operable venue to hosting a world class event, shouldn't it be moved to somewhere that can as a temporary fix?

As for not having a GP. has anyone advocated that?

[Valve Bounce]

Of course motorways are a different story, they have to cope with heavy loads from lorries etc. Whereas F1 cars create a different set of forces. But you're right, in the scheme of things an F1 track is short and relatively simple.

!

Of course there are different forces in play. But when you consider the braking forces generated onto an asphalt surface by a loaded prime mover using exhaust brakes, then you will realise that all these forces are taken care of in the mix design. As I have posted above, unless these "knowledgeable" people have access to the design mix and test results, then they are talking BS.

Basically, pavements are designed with a life 20 years, and if the track surface doesn't hold up during an F1 race, it is simply because the design and/or construction standards have not been met.

[Easy Drifter]

Valve I am not disputing your knowledge.
I have just seen fresh pavement, and some not so fresh, come apart on race tracks several times. I know David has too as we both were at one event when it happened.
With all the other problems and delays Korea has had I just hope they got it right.

[ioan]

What's frustrating is people making silly accusations that have no basis in fact.

Who doesn't want Korea to go ahead in principal and if Korea isn't capable of providing a safe and operable venue to hosting a world class event, shouldn't it be moved to somewhere that can as a temporary fix?

As for not having a GP. has anyone advocated that?

Thanks for proving my point, you're one of those who want it to fail.

[Valve Bounce]

Valve I am not disputing your knowledge.
I have just seen fresh pavement, and some not so fresh, come apart on race tracks several times. I know David has too as we both were at one event when it happened.
With all the other problems and delays Korea has had I just hope they got it right.

There are reasons why Asphalt fails: poor quality control at the batching plant, poor control during laying and rolling. I can go into detail and bore the living daylights out of everyone here, but will refrain from doing so.

All I can say is if the mix was properly designed, the material was properly mixed according to specs, transported and laid and rolled as per specs, (such as AASHTO), then the track should hold. Very often, shortcuts are taken by dodgy operators and the track is laid under adverse temperature/climate conditions, especially if the job is rushed, and this will lead to failure. I have seen bridge deck's covered with a layer too thin and in the rain right here in Melbourne, and this had to be removed and replaced. Politics and an election played a big part in this fiasco.

[Ari]

What's frustrating is people making silly accusations that have no basis in fact.

Who doesn't want Korea to go ahead in principal and if Korea isn't capable of providing a safe and operable venue to hosting a world class event, shouldn't it be moved to somewhere that can as a temporary fix?

As for not having a GP. has anyone advocated that?

I'd much prefer there not be a gp. :)

[maximilian]

I'd much prefer there not be a gp. :)
YES! Let's just call it a season and declare Mark Webber WDC! :D

[truefan72]

not in doubt anymore. FIA gave it the final go ahead today.
It past final inspection and we are set for october 24.

good

[Sonic]

not in doubt anymore. FIA gave it the final go ahead today.
It past final inspection and we are set for october 24.

good

Fantastic! Now let's hope none of this cr@p disrupts the GP weekend and LETS GO RACING! :D

[UltimateDanGTR]

yes, the race around the wastelands is on! :D

[truefan72]

yes, the race around the wastelands is on! :D

it's a seaside resort and should provide for some lovely scenery

[steveaki13]

Good News and means we still have a full title race.

If there had only been two races left one dodgy result from Vettel or Alonso and title was all but over. We now have that critical extra race.


Can't wait!!!!!

[donKey jote]

I can go into detail and bore the living daylights out of everyone here, but will refrain from doing so.

Not boring here... Asphalt is a fascinating subject.
I've spent a lot of this last year trying to get a stable, low-grip asphalt for some of our test tracks... any tips? :D

[nigelred5]

it's a seaside resort and should provide for some lovely scenery

LOL. Have you seen the photos of the place. It's PLANNED to be aseaside resort. Current'y it's a race track smack in the middle of what looks like reclaimes swampland with exactly nothing anywhere near it.

[Valve Bounce]

During a site visit to Mogpo many years ago, I found out that the locals eat octopus live. So I asked the other engineer whether I could pay one of the locals to eat an Octopus live while I took a picture. The engineer said why don't I just buy the Octopus for our driver Mr Lee. OK!

So Mr Lee went up to this large 20 gallon plastic drum, which had a number of Octopusses swimming around in it. He smacked the side of the drum to watch which Octopus swam the fastest, grabbed it, and started shoving it head first into his mouth. The Octopus, not wanting to be chewed and eaten, used its tentacles to grab onto the outside of Mr Lee's face. But Mr Lee simply peeled the tentacles off, showed them into his mouth as well, chewed and swallowed.

So if any of you guys reading this are going to the Korean GP, go buy your driver a live Octopus.

[Hondo]

I, not doubting Valve's technical knowledge, also think there will be problems with the track breaking up. I think the track will have it's way with the tires too.

[truefan72]

LOL. Have you seen the photos of the place. It's PLANNED to be aseaside resort. Current'y it's a race track smack in the middle of what looks like reclaimes swampland with exactly nothing anywhere near it.

you mean as picturesque as silverstone, istanbul, china, hockenheim, or many other tracks? it will be fine, and i look forward to some good racing

[Retro Formula 1]

Thanks for proving my point, you're one of those who want it to fail.

:laugh:

Back to your cave, little Troll. You just post inflammatory comments to mask your inadequate arguments and illogical, nonsensical accusations.

Begone and take your silly games with you :arrows:

:laugh:

[ioan]

LOL. Have you seen the photos of the place. It's PLANNED to be aseaside resort. Current'y it's a race track smack in the middle of what looks like reclaimes swampland with exactly nothing anywhere near it.

And what's the difference between this and Magny Cours?! :\

[ioan]

:laugh:

Back to your cave, little Troll. You just post inflammatory comments to mask your inadequate arguments and illogical, nonsensical accusations.

Begone and take your silly games with you :arrows:

:laugh:

So you've got nothing else but trolling, no arguments at all. Thank you for the additional proof. :D

[Retro Formula 1]

So you've got nothing else but trolling, no arguments at all. Thank you for the additional proof. :D

:laugh:

You really are a class A Muppet. You were the one accusing me of wanting the Korean GP to fail which is wholly wrong. Put bluntly, you are talking danglers me old son.

How can I be Trolling when you fabricate accusations that you refuse to substantiate and instead claim the opposite?

OK, I admit it. I cannot provide proof that I want the Korean GP to fail. Can you provide proof to the contrary or will you carry on with your silly games.

C U later Richard. :laugh:

[Valve Bounce]

OK! here's my last post here before we go into the GP thread.
I am concerned that the development is in a marsh; there may be settlement issues on the landfill depending on how slowly the material was placed. Too fast, and you could get not only differential settlement but sudden shear failures (as I had experienced on another landfill in Korea). OMIGOD! :eek: I hope that doesn't happen.

I am really hoping that teh Koreans have done the job properly, and the machinery I saw in teh pics suggests that they may have. But rushing a construction job on a landfill over soft sediments does have serious complications - let's hope that is not the case.

I am hoping that the characters who have turned this thread into a churlish repetoire can desist and take their finger poking at each other's eyes into the Chit Chat forum instead. Peace on Earth and Goodwill to Man.

[Mark]

OK! here's my last post here before we go into the GP thread.
I am concerned that the development is in a marsh; there may be settlement issues on the landfill depending on how slowly the material was placed. Too fast, and you could get not only differential settlement but sudden shear failures (as I had experienced on another landfill in Korea). OMIGOD! :eek: I hope that doesn't happen.

I am really hoping that teh Koreans have done the job properly, and the machinery I saw in teh pics suggests that they may have. But rushing a construction job on a landfill over soft sediments does have serious complications - let's hope that is not the case.

I am hoping that the characters who have turned this thread into a churlish repetoire can desist and take their finger poking at each other's eyes into the Chit Chat forum instead. Peace on Earth and Goodwill to Man. A few 'bumps' would make things interesting.. If there are big deviations they can lay some wooden ramps down :p

[ArrowsFA1]

And what's the difference between this and Magny Cours?! :\
Not much. Both were built for reasons more associated with politics than sport.

[the bro]

Wooden ramps? Come on man this is F1, you would at least have to make them out of carbon fibre or something.

[Easy Drifter]

There was a report of oil still coming out of the track surface as it cured as of Monday.
Hopefully this is not still the case but if it is we had better hope the forecast for a dry weekend holds!
Oil is bad enough but mixed with water------Yipes!

[Valve Bounce]

There was a report of oil still coming out of the track surface as it cured as of Monday.
Hopefully this is not still the case but if it is we had better hope the forecast for a dry weekend holds!
Oil is bad enough but mixed with water------Yipes!

Do you have a link for this? Because there should not be oil coming out of any asphalt surface since oil is not used in the manufacture of asphalt. Oil can only come from leaking construction plant.

[Mark]

Do you have a link for this? Because there should not be oil coming out of any asphalt surface since oil is not used in the manufacture of asphalt. Oil can only come from leaking construction plant.

Maybe it's not oil, but I know what he means, new tarmac can have somewhat of a 'sheen' over it?

[Valve Bounce]

Maybe it's not oil, but I know what he means, new tarmac can have somewhat of a 'sheen' over it?

The only way that a tarmac (asphalt) sheen is evident over a new asphalt surface is if the percentage bitumen is too high and the voids ratio too low.

As I mentioned before, if the specifications were adhered to, this should not be happening. But if shortcuts are taken and the specs ignored,, then all sorts of problems will occur with an AC mix.

Of interest was a strange occurence which happened when I was working in Korea. Oil was discovered at a location on the East coast (near where Mogensson was the Resident Consultant). The Koreans immediately started to calculate how rich their country was depending on the volumes of oil they will produce in their country. After a couple of weeks when drilling was about to be mobilised, some bright Inspector noticed that the oil was quite dark and resembled old sump oil. It was then discovered that some contractor had parked his dozer at that location,drained the sump to do an oil change.

Yeah! strange things happened in Korea, and I could sit here and fill this forum with all sorts of entertaining stories.

[Easy Drifter]

The report was on Motorsport.com on the 18th. Report also said cement dust was being spread on it.
You will note I said hopefully this was not the case.
I have seen what appears to be oil, from the colouration, coming off newly laid surfaces here when they are rained on a couple of days after they have been laid.
Probably just me but I always get nervous when things are done in a rush and maybe shortcuts are taken.

[Valve Bounce]

The report was on Motorsport.com on the 18th. Report also said cement dust was being spread on it.
You will note I said hopefully this was not the case.
I have seen what appears to be oil, from the colouration, coming off newly laid surfaces here when they are rained on a couple of days after they have been laid.
Probably just me but I always get nervous when things are done in a rush and maybe shortcuts are taken.

I don't like this, I don't like this at all. It sounds as if bitumen was bleeding which can only mean one thing: too much bitumen and to low a voids ration. In that case, the Marshall Stability could be too low.

You don't have a link for the report and the pics, do you?

Just read the report - the surface cannot bleed oil as the report says, but it can bleed bitumen, which is a bad sign. If the report is correct, there will be serious surface stability issues.

[Easy Drifter]

No pictures.
Just go to the top of the page here and click on News. Then check the F1 section 'F1 teams expect a difficult time---'.

[Tazio]

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=391514&FS=F1
This could turn into a freakin' mess :confused:

[Valve Bounce]

No pictures.
Just go to the top of the page here and click on News. Then check the F1 section 'F1 teams expect a difficult time---'.

Yeah! read that - our postings must have overlapped.

[Easy Drifter]

Well here is hoping the reports are incorrect rumours. F1 does not need a major screw up and certainly neither does Korea.

It kind of makes me think back to the first Cdn. GP in 67 when the 'garages' were just one big long tent open on one side and lit by a few 100 watt bulbs. Changing the Maserati V12 in 'Tatty' Attwood's Cooper was not exactly fun in those conditions. Two mechanics and one gopher (me). One mechanic was some guy called Ron Dennis.
When it rained, and did it ever, the water ran under the tent creating nice little streams through the tent plus, of course, it blew in the open side.
At least there were no track break up issues to worry about.

[52Paddy]

Well here is hoping the reports are incorrect rumours. F1 does not need a major screw up and certainly neither does Korea.

It kind of makes me think back to the first Cdn. GP in 67 when the 'garages' were just one big long tent open on one side and lit by a few 100 watt bulbs. Changing the Maserati V12 in 'Tatty' Attwood's Cooper was not exactly fun in those conditions. Two mechanics and one gopher (me). One mechanic was some guy called Ron Dennis.
When it rained, and did it ever, the water ran under the tent creating nice little streams through the tent plus, of course, it blew in the open side.
At least there were no track break up issues to worry about.

Shut up complaining! Some of us can only dream of having that experience :p :

[Valve Bounce]

Well here is hoping the reports are incorrect rumours. F1 does not need a major screw up and certainly neither does Korea.

It kind of makes me think back to the first Cdn. GP in 67 when the 'garages' were just one big long tent open on one side and lit by a few 100 watt bulbs. Changing the Maserati V12 in 'Tatty' Attwood's Cooper was not exactly fun in those conditions. Two mechanics and one gopher (me). One mechanic was some guy called Ron Dennis.
When it rained, and did it ever, the water ran under the tent creating nice little streams through the tent plus, of course, it blew in the open side.
At least there were no track break up issues to worry about.

Which reminds me that many years ago I was going to Cabramurra and was decending a rather steep winding road to Tumut Ponds - it was warm and the bitumen surface was bleeding. The brakes didn't work and I as lucky that I managed to get some grip at the edge of the road and managed to stop.

IF the surface is bleeding bitumen in Korea, the brakes won't work, and the slicks will have no traction at all. Not an altogether encouraging prognosis. :(

[electron]

"Our advice to you is don't panic and make the most of the experience"

this is official from Torro Rosso
sounds cool to me. will do. ^_^

[Retro Formula 1]

Obviously I am a Korean hater that wants the GP to fail according to one member :rolleyes: but I find Herman Tilke's comments worrying.



Q. There has been a lot of talk in the build-up to the weekend about the problems that could be caused by the asphalt being laid so late. Will that produce any problems in breaking up or rippling?
HT: No, it will not. The only problem it will cause – and to me that is not actually a problem – is in terms of grip. A lack of grip should not be a problem because we have the best drivers in the world here. Plus, it will be the same conditions for everybody. There will not a problem that the track will break up.
Q. Is it the oils in the asphalt that will make it slippery then?
HT: Not only the oils, but the bitumen chemicals in it. Normally with new asphalt over the first six months the chemicals on the top surface wear down to expose the stones – which is what produce the grip. Normally these stones are freely exposed on the surface, but here there is bitumen covering them. After some time that will be removed, the stones will be free and the track will have some grip. But that will not happen this weekend.

I am worried about the safety of this track and the more it rubbers in, the more dangerous it will become.

On the racing line, grip will be built up over the weekend but as soon as someone gets slightly off line, there will be a sharp decrease in grip and drivers could find themselves flying off unexpectedly at strange places.

As for overtaking, it could be like braking on marbles if a driver tries it.

I really hope I'm wrong but this could be more like a Lottery than a Grand Prix.

[Valve Bounce]

Yeah! I am worried about Tilke's comments although his answers are not totally wrong. First of all, there is no oil in Asphaltic concrete. Any bleeding from the mix is bitumen.

But he is correct in that the stone mix at the surface is covered with bitumen and when the bitumen wears off, the stone surface is exposed.

However, if there is bleeding, then this is a totally different issue, as bleeding results in a liquid bitumen layer on the surface. If this occurs (and I prey to God it doesn't) then there is practically no friction between the tyres and the track. Simple as that.

[truefan72]

well we only have 2 more days to go and we will all find out the situation in Korea. I assume the teams have arrived and some of the drivers probably have done a walk through or checked out the track.

[Dave B]

Some drivers and crew are reporting unfinished grandstands, shoddy workmanship, and a general sense of unease. For example:



Well, what a shocker of a morning. This place is completely bonkers and nothing really works. Track still being built. Toilets overflowing.


They're obviously expecting big crowds in Korea... the grandstands were still being built when we arrived this morning.


Just arrived at the track, still lots of building work being done!


As for the track itself:


Track so slippery that safety car ran wide with 2 wheels off track at first corner during thursday run! All drivers report v tricky surface

But for the good - and possibly most important - news:

Suggestions that the surface won't survive a weekend of F1 are hype at best.

[SGWilko]

Some drivers and crew are reporting unfinished grandstands, shoddy workmanship, and a general sense of unease. For example:








As for the track itself:


But for the good - and possibly most important - news:

Dave me old mucker, are you copying and pasting from the Commonwealth Games thread? ;)

[Dave B]

No, I'm gazing in my crystal ball at the 2012 Olympics thread :p

[SGWilko]

No, I'm gazing in my crystal ball at the 2012 Olympics thread :p

I hear there will be cutbacks at the Olympics in London. The speed cycling events will now be contended on Boris Bikes, and each entrant must have registered and paid to hire their respective bike in advance.

Of course, organised chaos at the event will see no bike docking units anywhere near the Olympic Park.......

[Dave B]

And here's the pit entry about 20 minutes ago. I hope someone shifts that pile of rubble...
http://twitpic.com/2zg0s0


Remind me how long it is before first practice? :s

[Valve Bounce]

This does not sound good. If the safety car could not get traction, things could get worse for the F1 cars on slicks.

And if anyone in Korea is reading this, make sure your hotel room doesn't have Ondol heating under the floor slab. It could be fatal. :eek:

[Dave B]

There's a pretty fair and balanced view of the whole situation from the BBC's Sarah Holt:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/sarahholt/2010/10/so_far_so_good_in_korea.html

[AndyL]

As for the track itself:

[quote="Jonathan Legard":3cci7x1k]
Track so slippery that safety car ran wide with 2 wheels off track at first corner during thursday run! All drivers report v tricky surface
[/quote:3cci7x1k]

:eek:
As skc mentioned it'll probably clean up on the racing line, but we'll be in for a processional race if no-one can put half a wheel off it. Don't put money on anyone who qualifies on the wrong side of the grid!

[truefan72]

what the drivers have to say

- Korean Grand Prix track hailed by drivers
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/87573

Hopefully we can now focus on the race instead of the detractors trying to hate on this race/track/venue before the first car hits the track on FP1

[Valve Bounce]

what the drivers have to say

- Korean Grand Prix track hailed by drivers
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/87573

Hopefully we can now focus on the race instead of the detractors trying to hate on this race/track/venue before the first car hits the track on FP1


I don't think this is entirely fair. Most of the detractors, including myself, were making predictions or assumptions based on the information we were receiving. I know that all my predictions were qualified - IF being the importantword. I did say that if the specifications were followed and the track surface laid accordingly, then there should be no concern more or less. However, reports of "oil" on the surface and cement being used on the surface did ring alarm bells.

Basically, P1 will tell all. Let's wait a few more hours.

[Easy Drifter]

Like Valve I qualified my comments. I hope all works out ok.
I will get to see 2nd practice on Speed tonight at 1 am so I too will be waiting and hoping.

Just hope I can stay awake. I was writing an article until 5am!
Not about pro racing though.

[Valve Bounce]

This is very obvious after Practice and Quals. I see no defects in the asphalt surface; no seeping oil, or ripples in braking zones like I first saw in Shanghai a few years ago. In fact, I thought the asphalt surface was first class or as the Koreans say:" #1".

I did see several places where the wind had blown dust across the track and I think that some fast work on roadside furniture and cover may help resolve this.

We are in for one great F1 race, and all credit to the Koreans who battled against the odds caused by severe inclement weather. I am predicting that in years to come, this will be touted as one of the better races on the callendar.

[Retro Formula 1]

Hopefully we can now focus on the race instead of the detractors trying to hate on this race/track/venue before the first car hits the track on FP1


I cannot think of a reason that fans wouldn't want a race in Korea and haven't seen any evidence of hate. Just people expressing (IMO) justified concerns based on the information coming out of Korea and backed up by the fact they are even now running round trying to get bits finished to make this a successful event.

[Dave B]

I cannot think of a reason that fans wouldn't want a race in Korea and haven't seen any evidence of hate. Just people expressing (IMO) justified concerns based on the information coming out of Korea and backed up by the fact they are even now running round trying to get bits finished to make this a successful event.
:up: This.

I had concerns about the track and infrastructure, but was optimistic they would be unfounded as indeed they are.

It's to the credit of the Koreans that they've been working flat out to get this finished, even working overnight after Friday practice revealed some issues with some of the kerbs.

The place is still a building site in places, but they've got the substantive part of the job done which means there'll be a race - a safe race - on Sunday :up:

[Ranger]

The event looks to be a great success already. :up:

[ioan]

That is way below your usual standard fella. I expect that type of BS from ioan but not you.

I cannot think of a reason that fans wouldn't want a race in Korea and haven't seen any evidence of hate. Just people expressing (IMO) justified concerns based on the information coming out of Korea and backed up by the fact they are even now running round trying to get bits finished to make this a successful event.

And this is exactly the crap I expected from you. :rolleyes:

[52Paddy]

And this is exactly the crap I expected from you. :rolleyes:

It's not crap, though perhaps he didn't need to mention your name.

[ioan]

It's not crap, though perhaps he didn't need to mention your name.

You got the gist of it.

[555-04Q2]

The first Korean GP was a great race. Nice to see another decent track. Bring on Korea 2011 :)

[truefan72]

The first Korean GP was a great race. Nice to see another decent track. Bring on Korea 2011 :)

yep and in the dry it might be pretty darn good.
plus in 2011 they will at least have landscaped the place better.

we hope

[ShiftingGears]

No problems with the track infrastructure whatsoever. Except could've used another crane or two.

Also had the unusual sight of mud being kicked up onto the cars sidepods.

[52Paddy]

Well done to Korea for producing a great F1 weekend against all the odds. They stuck true to their word and delivered :up: