BTCC vs WTCC vs DTM vs V8 Supercars

[MrMetro]

I thought I would set this thread up to see which series people think is the best touring car series in the world. Although I don't follow touring car racing as strongly as bike racing, I find each series interesting, apart from the WTCC, which imo is getting worse each race.

[AndyRAC]

While WTCC, BTCC cars are probably what most people would class as 'proper' Touring cars - they're as boring as hell. 2L n/a buzz boxes which are underpowered don't do anything for me. The WTCC is a joke, which needs an overhaul; cars, tracks, formats. Ballast has no place in a World Championship!
The DTM is the most professional with the best cars, but not much overtaking. The AussieV8's have the best mix of races - sprint and endurance. While the BTCC has the most overtaking, and crash, bang, wallop action - I find the races too short.
In an ideal world there would be 1 Touring car reg, but that'll never happen.

[MrMetro]

While WTCC, BTCC cars are probably what most people would class as 'proper' Touring cars - they're as boring as hell. 2L n/a buzz boxes which are underpowered don't do anything for me. The WTCC is a joke, which needs an overhaul; cars, tracks, formats. Ballast has no place in a World Championship!
The DTM is the most professional with the best cars, but not much overtaking. e.


true indeed

[I am evil Homer]

DTMs are touring cars in my eyes. They're pretty much prototypes with a recogniseable shell over the top. V8s are close to that but don't use such exotic materials.

[BDunnell]

Of the four series mentioned, V8 Supercars is surely the best — a stable championship with good drivers, exciting cars, excellent racing and widespread public support. Having been to a DTM round this year and watched several of the other races on German television, the atmosphere is great, but the racing diabolically boring. I was bored rigid. When the BTCC is good, it's very good — the third race at Donington on Sunday was clean and entertaining all the way through. But when it's bad... Nobody minds a bit of contact, but not to the degree we now see, and I am increasingly uncomfortable with various matters relating to the technical regulations. The outcome of a motor race should always be decided along meritocratic lines, not as a result of enforced equalisation. The cars themselves don't bother me, and the same goes for the WTCC, but it has become a real joke this past season, and I don't understand why the FIA bothers with it.

[AndyRAC]

The WTCC should be the pinnacle of Touring car racing - that means the best cars, drivers, tracks, etc A 'DTM-type' car should be used, 400ishBHP, RWD. And race on proper tracks!

[BDunnell]

The WTCC should be the pinnacle of Touring car racing - that means the best cars, drivers, tracks, etc A 'DTM-type' car should be used, 400ishBHP, RWD. And race on proper tracks!

Those who watched Jim Clark in a Lotus Cortina would argue that a saloon/touring car does not have to be the most powerful around to offer good racing. The trouble with DTM cars — and to some extent the race format and circuits used — is that the racing is often terrible, like Formula 1 circa 2002.

[VkmSpouge]

I have never really watched the V8 Supercars so I can't judge how good a series it is. Of the other three I prefer the BTCC more since it is the most exciting but there needs to be more punishment of excessive contact. DTM is certainly the most professional but can be rather dull. WTCC is run badly and the racing isn't always good fun.

[UltimateDanGTR]

Best racing:BTCC
coolest Cars: DTM
best concept for a series:WTCC
most under performing series:WTCC
most farcicle:WTCC

changes for the WTCC are needed, i think we can all establish.

[Eunos]

I agree the WTCC leaves much to be desired

There is a Potentially good Racing series here, But for some reason it just gets worse and worse..

For me i have to say BTCC, Whilst it may not be as glamerous as it was in the 90's, Still produces great Racing :)

[Azumanga Davo]

The V8 Supercars sound the best of the lot, but are very overweight dinosaurs in technological comparison. I would love to see the following combo:

* V8SC size engines
* DTM body and chassis
* BTCC drivers and peronalities
* WTCC schedule and presence

The universe would explode at that I reckon.

[UltimateDanGTR]

The V8 Supercars sound the best of the lot, but are very overweight dinosaurs in technological comparison. I would love to see the following combo:

* V8SC size engines
* DTM body and chassis
* BTCC drivers and peronalities
* WTCC schedule and presence

The universe would explode at that I reckon.

hmmm, interesting. I'd be slightly different:

*V8SC or DTM size engines with DTM or V8SC NOISE (i really dont mind-both types are bl**dy awesome for TCs-a global TC engine but of V6/V8 size would be epic)
*DTM style chassis
*TC2000 'style' aero (aggresive but not fiddly like DTM which ruins racing IMO)
*Stars from various tc series (people like giovanardi, plato, muller, priaulx, turkington, Tarquini, spengler, paffet, di resta, scheider, ekstrom, lopez, bueno, fontana, morbidelli, whincup, courtney all on the same track in the same series-I cannot describe the potential awesomeness of that without swearing) plus ex F1 stars etc would be cool to see giving it a go too-Jacques Villeneuve, Johnny Herbert, Romain Grosjean. I mean why not sportscar or gt drivers give it a go as well?
*WTCC schedule and presence
*V8 supercars style tv coverage
*prominent media exposure
*Races of length inbetween that of WTCC and DTM (2 races per weekend)
*no reverse grids
*no success ballast
*more media presence
*media presence
*media presence
*good stewards
*high manufacturer interest


Well after that (frankly rather exciting) list of thoughts, prepare to see me open a 'your ideal ultimate touring car series' thread where we can bounce some ideas off the walls. all this thought of such a series has got me seriously energized. I'm a dreamer.

EDIT: also, NO hatchbacks. NO diesels. maybe some kind of green fuel mandatory though? if it was affordable and doable that is (maybe supplied by one company 'control fuel' I guess.) that kind of thing would go down well with the media and eco mentalists.

[Captain VXR]

If the BTCC switched to Skylines and Monaros etc, it would be brilliant - it worked a few decades ago

Much better engine sounds and far faster cars:
lvvm6lIIMFw
gKMHheBpRMc

[BDunnell]

The V8 Supercars sound the best of the lot, but are very overweight dinosaurs in technological comparison.

I don't think that should matter one jot, except perhaps in terms of the relevance of such vehicles to the modern world, which should be a concern to any touring car series.

[I am evil Homer]

HAs to be marketable if you want works teams and means relevant to road cars. In UK and Europe increasingly that means smaller capacity turbo-charged engines.

[Azumanga Davo]

I don't think that should matter one jot, except perhaps in terms of the relevance of such vehicles to the modern world, which should be a concern to any touring car series.

Well, another sticking point for me is the lack of variety in cars.

[wedge]

V8SC all the way

DTM = glorified prototype racing. Most importantly, a V8 touring car shouldn't be 1100kg and the racing would be better if the aero regs were a bit tighter.

BTCC great for action and only if you have appreciation for very aggressive racing.

[BDunnell]

Well, another sticking point for me is the lack of variety in cars.

Which is a fair point.

[F1boat]

Well, I started watching BTCC two days ago and was very impressed from the many different cars. I also like the tracks very much, unlike in the WTCC which looks very similar, but with few different cars and tracks which are not so cool. DTM looks gorgeous, but again, only two carmakers and the racing is even more sterile than F1. V8SC is awesome, but the races are way too long, like a GT race. Also I don't like the fact that there are only two carmakers.

[ShiftingGears]

V8SC is awesome, but the races are way too long, like a GT race. Also I don't like the fact that there are only two carmakers.

Really? I find the races to be of good length generally - sometimes the officiating is a bit appalling in V8s, but I suppose that applies to a lot of racing series. At least races generally aren't wreckfests like BTCC can be.

One of the things that I do find lacking in the V8 supercar calendar is circuits that allow the cars to stretch their legs a bit. There's too many purpose built circuits on the V8 calendar that are flat as a tack and 3km long or shorter. There's Winton, Hidden Valley, Queensland Raceway and Symonds Plains, and to a lesser extent Sandown Raceway that all fall into this category.

I feel that the V8 Supercars are a little overgrown for the number of club circuits on the calendar.

[RJL25]

Anyone who thinks a V8 Supercar is a dinosaur doesn't really know anything about V8 Supercars.

Yes the engines have pushrods, and theres a live axle, and the weight limit for the catagory is quite high, but putting those thigns aside, these race cars are every bit as advanced and the engineering quality just as good as you'll find in any other touring car catagory in the world.

The teams have to work within the framework of the regulations, so if the regs require a pushrod and live axle then so be it, but that doesn't mean the race cars aren't magnificnent peices of engineering, which I can assure you if you ever get a chance to have an up close look at one you will see is definetly the case.

The Car of the Future regulations for V8 Supercars are quite exciting. They are looking at lowering the weight limit to around 1250kg, independant rear suspension, rear transaxle sequential gearbox, and more freedom in the engine regs (SOHC and DOHC will be eligable) and the strong possibility of more manufacturers joining the series.

So far Toyota, Hyundai, Nissan, BMW and even Mercedes at one point or another has been linked to V8 Supercars once the new regs come on board in 2013. (The mercedes one wouldn't actually be an official mercedes entry, rather a mercedes backed entry funded by AMG's Australian dealer network)

[racer69]

I think your being abit fanciful with how 'exciting' the COTF is going to be, it is effectively just a NASCAR COT, with a standard chassis and any bodywork covering, not Touring Car racing in my opinion.

As for the manufacturers linked, both Toyota and BMW have totally denounced the speculation of them being interested, BMW saying that the only chance of them even looking at it would be if they could run their new DTM car. The Mercedes rumour didn;t go much further than "Auto Action" magazine. I haven't read an speculation on Hyundai, but given they are introducing the Genisis to the Australian market, they could be a chance.

Problem with new manufacturers is that they were totally booted out of the series at the end of 1992, at a time when BMW and Nissan were more committed to local touring car racing than Holden or Ford, and until now have been told they were not welcome in the ATCC/V8SCS....... just because V8Supercars have decided they can now enter, hardly means other makes will be beating the door down for an entry.

[F1boat]

Really? I find the races to be of good length generally - sometimes the officiating is a bit appalling in V8s, but I suppose that applies to a lot of racing series. At least races generally aren't wreckfests like BTCC can be.

One of the things that I do find lacking in the V8 supercar calendar is circuits that allow the cars to stretch their legs a bit. There's too many purpose built circuits on the V8 calendar that are flat as a tack and 3km long or shorter. There's Winton, Hidden Valley, Queensland Raceway and Symonds Plains, and to a lesser extent Sandown Raceway that all fall into this category.

I feel that the V8 Supercars are a little overgrown for the number of club circuits on the calendar.

The V8 cars I love at Mt. Panorama. That's an amazing track. Totally awesome. About the lenght of the races, I guess that it's a matter of taste. I personally love the WTCC/BTCC format with short, but many races, this turns them into a non-stop action-packed sprint, while in V8SC sometimes are kinda F1-ish, follow the leader and explore tactics.

[UltimateDanGTR]

The V8 cars I love at Mt. Panorama. That's an amazing track. Totally awesome. About the lenght of the races, I guess that it's a matter of taste. I personally love the WTCC/BTCC format with short, but many races, this turns them into a non-stop action-packed sprint, while in V8SC sometimes are kinda F1-ish, follow the leader and explore tactics.

Currently though, V8SC races are more exciting than WTCC races. I like both formats; the BTCC is the perfect format for what it is, however I'd like to see WTCC races have longer races like V8SC, if they could improve the racing and manufacturer entry lists.

[ShiftingGears]

I think your being abit fanciful with how 'exciting' the COTF is going to be, it is effectively just a NASCAR COT, with a standard chassis and any bodywork covering, not Touring Car racing in my opinion.

As for the manufacturers linked, both Toyota and BMW have totally denounced the speculation of them being interested, BMW saying that the only chance of them even looking at it would be if they could run their new DTM car. The Mercedes rumour didn;t go much further than "Auto Action" magazine. I haven't read an speculation on Hyundai, but given they are introducing the Genisis to the Australian market, they could be a chance.

Problem with new manufacturers is that they were totally booted out of the series at the end of 1992, at a time when BMW and Nissan were more committed to local touring car racing than Holden or Ford, and until now have been told they were not welcome in the ATCC/V8SCS....... just because V8Supercars have decided they can now enter, hardly means other makes will be beating the door down for an entry.

I completely agree.

[Donney]

V8 supercars is a wonderful championship, fast cars, great engine noise and a very good mix of sprint, long and endurance races.
BTCC very ordinary looking cars but it is a championship which never fails to produce great racing and the rules seem to work very well.

WTCC and DTM both very different, one wants to be a reference and the other as said before is a glorified series for big cars with lots of wings and winglets, in my opinion both extremely boring.

[BTCC2]

BTCC by a mile IMO the only one in the same league is the V8 Supercars.

[djparky]

in terms of rules- definitely DTM or V8 Supercars.

The BTCC and WTCC are fine but they're rep mobiles with some sponsor stickers and are not desperately exciting at times.

DTM used to be brilliant under the old ITC guise, but in recent years it's turned into F1 with a roof- all decided on pit strategy and little or no overtaking on the track and is very dull to watch. They need to return to 2 race weekends and quit this boring strategy stuff.

I always enjoy Aussie V8's- I was lucky enough to go to Bathhurst back in the mid 90's- unfortunately I rarely get a chance to watch the V8 coverage nowadays, but I enjoyed what I saw at Yas Marina on Motors the other week

[DazzlaF1]

Well here's my view

WTCC
Potentially, the FIA has a real winner of a championship, great names, a super TV contract with Eurosport and super tracks which includes a visit to the world famous Macau Grand Prix, but they always seem to mess up when it comes to rule making, ever since SEAT brought the turbo-diesel engine to Touring Car racing, they've always struggled to equalize the field in the regulation stakes. Plus allowing manufacturers to field unlimited size squads certainly has not helped, for example thanks to slipstreaming tactics, SEAT were always able to make full use of their 5 or 6 car lineups in qualifying which led to precessional bore-fests in the races. 2011 will be a struggle with just Chevrolet the only full manufacturer team left and with only 4 makes of car on the grid, there is not much variety to get excited about.

BTCC
Alan Gow in my view has got this championship spot on throughout, succeeding where the FIA failed in terms of fair mechanical rules and regulations whilst still providing great and exciting thrill-a-minute racing. Like the WTCC, the BTCC has some great personalities, a brilliant TV deal with ITV and visits some of the best tracks the UK has to offer. And with a new much cheaper rules package in the offing (NGTC) the BTCC could potentially once again become the new platform for other championships to follow. Variety is something the BTCC also has going for it with 2011 potentially seeing a record TEN manufacturers represented in a near 30 car field.

DTM
This V8 series has awesome potential but its main problem is it wants to be like Formula 1 so badly, and that is a bad precedent, for instance, F1/NASCAR style pitsops, F1 style strategy, near F1 style race distances and even adopting the F1 points system (albeit the old one). The races also provide very little excitement and there is not a lot of variety in terms of manufacturers (of which they only have 2, soon to be 3) But its big strength is its all star driver lineup, the majority of the grid is instantly recogniseable to the average European racing fan. But it will never improve unless it tries to gain its own identity rather than trying to be like its more illustrious single seatered cousin.

V8 SUPERCARS
Basically NASCAR if it raced on road courses all the time instead of ovals. Thats not a bad thing though as its a great series to watch when you get the opportunity, a great mix of short sprints, hour long races and endurance races (of which they have their own marquee event, the Bathurst 1000). The big downside in my view is the lack of variety in cars, just 2 manufacturers who use cars that you could barely tell the difference of if they were painted the same colour. But thanks to the franchise system, you're guaranteed grid sizes of at least 28 cars which is good.

[F1boat]

Well here's my view

WTCC
Potentially, the FIA has a real winner of a championship, great names, a super TV contract with Eurosport and super tracks which includes a visit to the world famous Macau Grand Prix, but they always seem to mess up when it comes to rule making, ever since SEAT brought the turbo-diesel engine to Touring Car racing, they've always struggled to equalize the field in the regulation stakes. Plus allowing manufacturers to field unlimited size squads certainly has not helped, for example thanks to slipstreaming tactics, SEAT were always able to make full use of their 5 or 6 car lineups in qualifying which led to precessional bore-fests in the races. 2011 will be a struggle with just Chevrolet the only full manufacturer team left and with only 4 makes of car on the grid, there is not much variety to get excited about.

BTCC
Alan Gow in my view has got this championship spot on throughout, succeeding where the FIA failed in terms of fair mechanical rules and regulations whilst still providing great and exciting thrill-a-minute racing. Like the WTCC, the BTCC has some great personalities, a brilliant TV deal with ITV and visits some of the best tracks the UK has to offer. And with a new much cheaper rules package in the offing (NGTC) the BTCC could potentially once again become the new platform for other championships to follow. Variety is something the BTCC also has going for it with 2011 potentially seeing a record TEN manufacturers represented in a near 30 car field.

DTM
This V8 series has awesome potential but its main problem is it wants to be like Formula 1 so badly, and that is a bad precedent, for instance, F1/NASCAR style pitsops, F1 style strategy, near F1 style race distances and even adopting the F1 points system (albeit the old one). The races also provide very little excitement and there is not a lot of variety in terms of manufacturers (of which they only have 2, soon to be 3) But its big strength is its all star driver lineup, the majority of the grid is instantly recogniseable to the average European racing fan. But it will never improve unless it tries to gain its own identity rather than trying to be like its more illustrious single seatered cousin.

V8 SUPERCARS
Basically NASCAR if it raced on road courses all the time instead of ovals. Thats not a bad thing though as its a great series to watch when you get the opportunity, a great mix of short sprints, hour long races and endurance races (of which they have their own marquee event, the Bathurst 1000). The big downside in my view is the lack of variety in cars, just 2 manufacturers who use cars that you could barely tell the difference of if they were painted the same colour. But thanks to the franchise system, you're guaranteed grid sizes of at least 28 cars which is good.

You described the championships very well. Nothing to add really.

[AndySpeed]

Dazzla, I'd be interested to hear you views on the growth and direction of the Scandinavian Touring Car Championship (STCC)...

[UltimateDanGTR]

Brilliant Post Dazzla, my only quip is you mention the 'super tracks' of the WTCC. I'd have to disagree there, whilst it visits the great macau, Suzuka (from this year), Donington and Monza, it also goes to Valencia, Oschersleben, Curitiba, Zolder, Marrakech and this new guangdong place. All are or look dull IMO, and If the WTCC were to visit places like Potrero de los Funes, Bathurst, Le Mans, Montjuich Park, Interlagos it would be signficantly improved. I also think it needs to have the best touring cars in the world, a mix between DTM/TC2000/V8SC machines in essence, because like you say the series has great potential.

[DazzlaF1]

Dazzla, I'd be interested to hear you views on the growth and direction of the Scandinavian Touring Car Championship (STCC)...

Its too early to say really simply because of the fact it is in its infancy. From what i've seen though, the entry list and the calendar is Swedish dominated at the moment. Plus in Autosport, they say they intend to adopt the BTCC's new NGTC rules package within 2 years so it'll be interesting to see how that develops.

But that brings me back to my original point in the BTCC description and NGTC becoming the future platform for other championships to follow, with it being the platform it was in the supertouring days, that could also mean the potential for the championship to attract more manufacturer backed teams and with it more money due to the more stable rules package.

[nightwish]

BTCC i vote the best

[Triple8fan]

V8SC is awesome, but the races are way too long, like a GT race. Also I don't like the fact that there are only two carmakers.

Perhaps you where watching the endurance races lol Bathurst or Phillip Island.V8 is the best for me if I had to choose...why do we have to choose....Also V8s will only be 2 carmakers for 2 more years then they are bring in COTF....it could kill the series.....with a genentic engine

[Eurotech]

BTCC is simply the best. It definately isn't perfect but imo it always has been and always will be the best tin-top (if not best race series overall) in the world.

[F1boat]

BTCC is simply the best. It definately isn't perfect but imo it always has been and always will be the best tin-top (if not best race series overall) in the world.

It's very close, with a lot of overtaking, great personalities, a lot of cars and very interesting tracks.

[RJL25]

I think your being abit fanciful with how 'exciting' the COTF is going to be, it is effectively just a NASCAR COT, with a standard chassis and any bodywork covering, not Touring Car racing in my opinion.

The COTF supercars will be constructed in exactly the same way as the current supercars, ie racing specific floorplan for reasons, mainly, of cost reduction.

While most of what you say is correct, the days of production cars going racing, basically group a, are a long way in the past, and for many reasons, but mainly safety reasons, are never coming back.

[Torg22]

In their current state my preferences lay with -

1st - BTCC... Always great racing with the best tracks and the drivers are not affraid to battle for postion and loose a bit of paint. Good mix of FWD and RWD cars within the field. 3rd race being a reverese top 10ect.. grid makes for brilliant viewing. 2011 is potentially looking to be a classic BTCC season.

2nd - V8 Supercars... Immense cars that sound crazy with a large field of cars, from what ive seen over the years some nice circuits too. Would prefer the races to be shorter like sprint races.

3rd - WTCC.... Circuits used are quite uninteresting for touring car racing and therfore doesnt make for great racing. Never seems to be as much action going on as the BTCC. Has been some great drivers in the series though.

4th - DTM.... Cars look good but thats about it, they handle to well like a single seater, not like a road car at all. Its F1 but in saloon form with a lot of precessional races where the race is won in the first corner.

[F1boat]

In their current state my preferences lay with -

1st - BTCC... Always great racing with the best tracks and the drivers are not affraid to battle for postion and loose a bit of paint. Good mix of FWD and RWD cars within the field. 3rd race being a reverese top 10ect.. grid makes for brilliant viewing. 2011 is potentially looking to be a classic BTCC season.

2nd - V8 Supercars... Immense cars that sound crazy with a large field of cars, from what ive seen over the years some nice circuits too. Would prefer the races to be shorter like sprint races.

3rd - WTCC.... Circuits used are quite uninteresting for touring car racing and therfore doesnt make for great racing. Never seems to be as much action going on as the BTCC. Has been some great drivers in the series though.

4th - DTM.... Cars look good but thats about it, they handle to well like a single seater, not like a road car at all. Its F1 but in saloon form with a lot of precessional races where the race is won in the first corner.

Same here, although I hope for a good WTCC season... I would also prefer a sprint V8 race...

[motorhead224]

V8 supercars is the best touring car category out of BTCC and WTCC. The action and the racing quality is just great. The tracks are brillient. The best tracks on the calender would have to be: Clipsal 500 at Adelaide, Philips Island near Melbourne, Bathurst at Mount Panarama near Sydney, Sandown in Victoria and few others.

V8 supercars might not have much downforce but have a lot more Horse-Power than DTM, WTCC and BTCC. V8 supercars are more for the tight street circuits where as the other 3 are for fast flowing circuits. you cant actually say whats best because they all produce great racing becides American Nas**t (nascar) oval racing. no skill in that. nascar gotta be worse than WTCC. Im not trying to offend anyone so if i am. My apologises.

If i was to compare BTCC, WTCC and V8 Supercars. V8 supercars would have to be the best, even if the cars are heavy and have pushrods. geneally, who gives a s**t. I dont. I feel that pushrods are more reliable than the Overhead Cams.

[Allyc85]

End the thread! As much as I do enjoy watching the BTCC, Motorhead224 is right, V8 Supercars rules!

[TheFamousEccles]

A brief overview and look at a new Car of The Future spec V8SC - in this case a 888 Holden Commodore.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_ip2PQP9Ok

[MAX_THRUST]

In order of preference.

Close tie between Aussie V8's and BTCC. For different reasons, though. You can't beat the Aussie V8's on sound alone. Btcc is always lively.

WTCC, never get to see it, but when I did it was fairly dull.
DTm, shockingly boring. Bad commentators don't help either though.

That's me done. Except, I would rather watch Legend car racing than DTM or WTCC. Legends are the most fun, great racing, basic so what, its about the entertainment value. It should be on tele regulary, the average person would love it.

[zako85]

I think one thing that makes V8 supercars so great is the race tracks. Most of the race tracks and the V8 supercars fit each other like hand and glove. I think the race in Abu Dhabi was a proof of this as that race track was nothing like V8 traditional tracks, and the show was boring IMO. The V8 the cars are also fine. They're powerful and mean looking (not wimpy looking like in BTCC or ugly redneck coupes in NASCAR), and they actually look like a stock car as opposed to what you have in NASCAR or DTM.

It's hard to decide between BTCC and V8 supercars, but I'll give the edge to V8 supercars. I have watched summaries of 2011/2012 WTCC and I found this show more boring, more predictable than BTCC.

Finally, DTM is a fine series, but I feel like it almost does not belong in comparisons with BTCC or V8 supercars. DTM cars drive, sound, and look like they are purpose-built race cars, kind of like prototypes, open wheelers, or GT cars, that were dressed to look like stock cars. I know Australian V8 supercars are far from stock internally, and yet not only they look stock but they seem to behave decidedly like "stock" cars, whereas DTM cars race more like open wheelers.

[AndyRAC]

V8 Supercars, then DTM.......


followed miles behind by British & World bumper cars.....

I actually think the BTCC is living on it's history when it was a fine series. Shockingly awful cars, terrible driving standards, the only thing it has is a great media presence.

As for the WTCC, undeserving of an FiA World Championship moniker. Are they the best cars, drivers, tracks, etc

I think not.

[MAX_THRUST]

With Merc and Nissan joining the Aussie V8's could we see this formula spread globally? If the WTCC used that car spec for its series, it would popular in OZ and the US straight away, would pick up fans in the UK straight away, and no doubt Europe. They tried to start a V8 series in the UK a few years back I believe Andy Rouse was involved, It never happened. I think the V8 route for touring cars is the way to go, however DTM is poor. If those manufacturers took on the Aussie V8 rules and Spec, I think DTM would improve greatly. That and get rid of the terrible commentators.

[MAX_THRUST]

What I am trying to say is the WTCC / FIA, could have a truly global touring car series with global interest, instantly. Its a no brainer, for me, but then I have no brain.

[Rollo]

I think the V8 route for touring cars is the way to go, however DTM is poor. If those manufacturers took on the Aussie V8 rules and Spec, I think DTM would improve greatly. That and get rid of the terrible commentators.

Problem.

The "Car Of The Future" regs for V8Supercars were written with the intent to attract other manufacturers to compete with Holden and Ford. We're now left with a situation where not even FordMoCo or General Motors are prepared to even admit if there'll even be Commodores and Falcons after 2016.

There was a rumour in AutoAction (which should be taken with a grain of salt) that the committee which looks into these things, might be toying with the possibility of two-door cars beyond 2016, which suggests Mustangs and Camaros. Where this would leave Nissan and Erebus is anyone's guess.

[MAX_THRUST]

It was mentioned on Top Gear last night that Mustangs are to be built for the UK market with a 2 litre engine, so I can see how Ford might start promoting Mustangs more globaly than at present. So an appearance in the V8 series would make sense I guess.

Having had a Vauxhall Omega (poor imitation of the Holden commodore) I love the big cars, but in the UK you can't buy anything from ford or Vauxhall that is that size of car. No Omega or Granada equivillant. If you wanna big car you have to buy a BMW or MERC it seems.

[Rollo]

Having had a Vauxhall Omega (poor imitation of the Holden commodore) I love the big cars, but in the UK you can't buy anything from ford or Vauxhall that is that size of car. No Omega or Granada equivillant. If you wanna big car you have to buy a BMW or MERC it seems.

Have you not heard of the VXR8 GTS? It is the Commodore lurking under a griffin badge and chiming in at £49,500.
Vauxhall VXR - Performance forged on the racetrack (http://www.vauxhall.co.uk/microsite/vxr/vxr8/index.html)

Furthermore you can even buy the ute in the UK:
Vauxhall VXR - Performance forged on the racetrack (http://www.vauxhall.co.uk/microsite/vxr/vxr8/clubsport-and-maloo.html)

Due to the relatively high costs of petrol in the UK to Oz and the fact that the "little Aussie battler" (ie the Aussie Dollar) has hardened up, Holden are only prepared to export the V8 variants because other markets will not absorb the sixes.

[52Paddy]

BTCC is my favourite because there is constant on-track action. Driving standards in recent years have raised some eye brows but, by and large, I find it the most entertaining series to watch. I've only seen limited V8 Supercars races due to my lack of coverage here in Ireland but I've enjoyed the ones I've seen. DTM and WTCC rarely produce amazing racing and I find both too clinical to be exciting. I followed most of the WTCC season last year but should have spent my time doing college work or something!

[MAX_THRUST]

WTCC and DTM too clinical. Great way to put it, and your right. V8's and BTCC are a lot more scrappy when racing and that makes for excitement.

[Wasted Talent]

Well as a Brit I have to say the best are ..... the V8 Supercars.

Close racing, decent format ie longish races with pitstops allowing differing strategies, should be improved with Mercedes and Nissan joining in, cars with more grunt than grip has to be a winner. Cars sound fantastic and look good to drive. Only downside is I would prefer slightly less street circuits although the cars are better suited to these tracks than Indycars or F1. Generally good, even driving standards,

Second BTCC, wide variety of cars but only 2 or 3 top class drivers in recent years. Driving standards going ever downwards seemingly. If the drivers were in single seaters people would regularily be getting seriously injured ...

Third - hmmm, high-tech, high budget bore-fest of DTM or WTCC which is simply.....odd! No-one watches it, a few good drivers and lots who aren't - World TCC? Gotta be joking... Both these series have pretty boring racing.

WT

[TheFamousEccles]

Some news updates from the V8SC

Strong Chevrolet presence expected for Austin 400 - Speedcafe (http://www.speedcafe.com/2013/03/22/strong-chevrolet-presence-expected-for-austin-400/)

Erebus planning for six Mercedes V8 Supercars - Speedcafe (http://www.speedcafe.com/2013/03/21/erebus-planning-for-six-mercedes-v8-supercars/)

V8 Supercars confirms Texas event details - Speedcafe (http://www.speedcafe.com/2013/03/20/v8-supercars-confirms-texas-event-details/)

[wedge]

Scottie McLaughlin - young, spunky, mega talent and big grin on his face. It's like Craig Lowndes all over again.

[Rollo]

Strong Chevrolet presence expected for Austin 400 - Speedcafe (http://www.speedcafe.com/2013/03/22/strong-chevrolet-presence-expected-for-austin-400/)



From this Article:
A complete re-branding of the company’s flagship Holden Racing Team for the weekend is thought to be among the options under consideration.

This has been done before of course:
http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv349/crankandpiston/V8%20Supercars/desert40018.jpg

Personally I think that it will happen for every season from 2016 and beyond and at EVERY race because Holden will suffer a complete existence failure. As it is, every car in their lineup is sold as a Chevrolet overseas.
Holden as a nameplate has no real reason anymore.

[TheFamousEccles]

I disagree that Holden as a nameplate has no real reason anymore, but sadly I do agree that Holden as a manufacturer will cease to exist sooner rather than later. But Holden will likely continue as a nameplate in Australia, like it's already doing, though without a locally designed, engineered and manufactured family saloon car.

The outcry would be deafening! No more Holden? Crazy talk.

[big_sw2000]

V8 Supercars, then DTM.......


followed miles behind by British & World bumper cars.....

I actually think the BTCC is living on it's history when it was a fine series. Shockingly awful cars, terrible driving standards, the only thing it has is a great media presence.

As for the WTCC, undeserving of an FiA World Championship moniker. Are they the best cars, drivers, tracks, etc

I think not.

I really do have to agree with this. British and World bumper cars lol. Maybe if Jason Plato was shot, then im sure the championships would be a lot cleaner in terms of racing. I don't watch the BTCC any more, as ramming some one off the track, instead of overtaking is not racing. As for DTM, ive not watched in for a while, as I never seem to be able to find what channel its on. Aussie V8s are by far the best, watch the championship on Motors. Bathurst is one of the events, along with Le Mans, Indy500 which I look forward to watching every year. There is just something about the big heavy V8, with sod all in the way of driver aids, that add to the racing.

[christophulus]

Surely they'd keep the Holden name in the long term? Would seem pointless rebranding the whole thing for the sake of a few badges. I mean, Vauxhall only exists in the UK, everywhere else it's an Opel

[wedge]

You know there is something inherently wrong with the formula if Touring Cars ends up relying on DRS

Drivers urge DTM to adopt DRS and option tyres for 2013 - DTM news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/106455)

[TheFamousEccles]

Too many aero aids on DTM cars now. They look very cool, but as in F1 the aero just makes close racing difficult, and DRS would be a mistake IMO. Take some of the aero away and watch 'em go!

[TheFamousEccles]

Meanwhile elsewhere,

Lowndes leads Holden whitewash in Symmons Plains practice - Speedcafe (http://www.speedcafe.com/2013/04/05/lowndes-leads-holden-whitewash-in-symmons-plains-practice/)

With so many commodores in the field it would be hard for them not to dominate, though they do seem to have the best handle on the Car of the Future at the moment.

[TheFamousEccles]

And so to the land of the Long White Cloud

Hand luggage help to get Nissans back on track - Speedcafe (http://www.speedcafe.com/2013/04/10/hand-luggage-help-to-get-nissans-back-on-track/)

[TheFamousEccles]

Some comment on the 'revised' Pukekohe track.

Whincup/Coulthard deliver verdict on Pukekohe facelift - Speedcafe (http://www.speedcafe.com/2013/04/12/whincupcoulthard-deliver-verdict-on-pukekohe-facelift/)

[TheFamousEccles]

A video preview of the Pukekohe V8SC round this weekend.


http://www.speedcafe.com/2013/04/11/video-speedcafe-tv-pukekohe-preview/

[DazzlaF1]

Too many aero aids on DTM cars now. They look very cool, but as in F1 the aero just makes close racing difficult, and DRS would be a mistake IMO. Take some of the aero away and watch 'em go!

Remember, this is what killed the Supertouring formula in the late 1990's, do the German's ever learn?

[AndyRAC]

DTM just wants to be F1, and apes everything it does.

[wedge]

DTM just wants to be F1, and apes everything it does.

Still got refuelling though..

[Wasted Talent]

Meanwhile elsewhere,

Lowndes leads Holden whitewash in Symmons Plains practice - Speedcafe (http://www.speedcafe.com/2013/04/05/lowndes-leads-holden-whitewash-in-symmons-plains-practice/)

With so many commodores in the field it would be hard for them not to dominate, though they do seem to have the best handle on the Car of the Future at the moment.

Well the CotF has certainly shaken things up, lots of drivers in the mix-up, but 888 and FPR still the cream at the top.

Amazing how Winterbottom is attracting all the damage and bad luck!

WT

[TheFamousEccles]

Further to the CotF idea, a brief insight from Jason Bright on the BJR development process. And they haven't had a test day yet.

BJR reaping benefits of new-spec Commodore - Speedcafe (http://www.speedcafe.com/2013/04/16/bjr-reaping-benefits-of-new-spec-commodore/)

[TheFamousEccles]

A little promotional junket for some of the V8SC drivers at the MotoGP race in Austin.

Apparently Kurt Busch is going to have a pedal of this car over the weekend. Pity he's such a ****er...

Courtney cuts first V8 Supercar laps in Austin - Speedcafe (http://www.speedcafe.com/2013/04/20/courtney-cuts-v8-laps-in-austin/)

[TheFamousEccles]

An interesting comparison of a V8SC and a NASCAR (apparently a Commodore..). The NASCAR looks like a speedway sedan in comparison, very boxy and amateurish looking. I am aware that the purpose of each is different, but still, ugh!

Interactive NASCAR/V8 Supercar comparison - Speedcafe (http://www.speedcafe.com/2013/04/24/nascar-v8-supercar-comparision/)

[dj_bytedisaster]

You know there is something inherently wrong with the formula if Touring Cars ends up relying on DRS

Drivers urge DTM to adopt DRS and option tyres for 2013 - DTM news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/106455)

I think there is nothing inherently wrong with DRS or options per se. It only turns bad if it makes the racing too artificial. Options and Primes have been working just fine in CART for years, they also worked fine in F1 until Pirelli decided to build tires that expire if you look at them cross-eyed. DRS is a helpful tool. It's downside is that the defending driver is given no means to fight back. We have seen in F1 that drivers can close up using DRS from almost a second behind. I think the enable cut-off should be at something like 0.3sec rather than 1 sec of a gap.

Other than that I think the DTM is on a good way. With the synchronisation of rules with the JGTC we can expect more manufacturers to join in the coming years.

[TheFamousEccles]

The Americans are getting fairly interested in the V8SC gig in Austin, it seems. This is just one little thing I've found on the Tubes, there are others but they are fairly similar - you'll get the picture. :vader:

I might have to eat my words about Kurt Busch, however. He comes across as personable and articulate, and also displays a genuine enthusiasm for motor racing in general! I think that this kind of cross cultural pollination is a good thing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kGobTWlEAhg

[Rollo]

I think there is nothing inherently wrong with DRS or options per se.

The most obvious DRS would be to run smaller wings surely? Maybe little ducky wings like NASCAR. Their aero regs allow cars to run right up to the rear bumper of the car infront. That seems far better as a solution.

[Rollo]

Agreed, ducky wings by the end of next season, please.

A full set of deck mounted wings and flares can be made to look cool too:
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3468/3919199050_8736333148_z.jpg

The "Blue Meanie" by HDT even proved that if they wanted to, it would still translate to current cars:
http://www.carsguide.com.au/images/uploads/HDT-SS-BlueMeanie-1.jpg

[TheFamousEccles]

Some news from Barbagallo in Western Australia for the latest V8SC Meet. Erebus AMG seem to have found some pace - Yay!

Holdsworth convinced practice pace genuine - Speedcafe (http://www.speedcafe.com/2013/05/03/holdsworth-convinced-barbagallo-practice-pace-genuine/)

[TheFamousEccles]

Plenty of power still to find for Mercedes - Speedcafe (http://www.speedcafe.com/2013/05/04/plenty-of-power-still-to-find-for-mercedes/)

[Wasted Talent]

Some news from Barbagallo in Western Australia for the latest V8SC Meet. Erebus AMG seem to have found some pace - Yay!

Holdsworth convinced practice pace genuine - Speedcafe (http://www.speedcafe.com/2013/05/03/holdsworth-convinced-barbagallo-practice-pace-genuine/)

The Nissan's are looking much better than the Mercs and they are expecting more power as the year goes on as well.

WT

[TheFamousEccles]

small grizzle - I can't bring myself to get out of bed at 3am to watch V8SC from Texas. Where is their core market, the US or AU? I like the idea of races in other countries, but I will be firetrucked if I am getting out of bed at this stupid time of the morning to watch. Not very well thought through, V8SC!

Okay, end of whinge :vader:

[zako85]

Learn to use a DVR. That's the way of life to me. Most Formula 1 races are not even held on American continents.

[zako85]

An interesting comparison of a V8SC and a NASCAR (apparently a Commodore..). The NASCAR looks like a speedway sedan in comparison, very boxy and amateurish looking. I am aware that the purpose of each is different, but still, ugh!

Interactive NASCAR/V8 Supercar comparison - Speedcafe (http://www.speedcafe.com/2013/04/24/nascar-v8-supercar-comparision/)

To me, the biggest difference between V8SC and NASCAR cars is that NASCAR cars look hideous. Even after fitting more palatable noses, I still can't stand fake painted headlights and ghetto rear endsof NASCAR's CoT. V8SC cars manufacturers made a good effort at making the cars look stock.

[Rollo]

V8SC cars manufacturers made a good effort at making the cars look stock.

V8 Supercars start with the shell of the road car.
The Holdens, Mercs and Nissans all have strips either cut out or added back to make the cars fit the dimensions but the Ford Falcon does not. The Falcon from the outside is the road car except for the front splitter, the rear wing and skirts.

[wedge]

I think there is nothing inherently wrong with DRS or options per se. It only turns bad if it makes the racing too artificial.

Admittedly, DRS looked good at Hockenheim but V8SC doesn't feel the need to run DRS and nor do their aero package spoil the show. Given that DTM requires 2 second interval for activation tells you how too dominant aero is in DTM.

[wedge]

Regards to Texas/COTA, the racing was pretty good. On paper the short circuit looks and feels Mickey Mouse - apart from pit straight its endless corners, one after the other.

The full circuit is begging for an enduro.

[Rollo]

The Falcon from the outside is the road car except for the front splitter, the rear wing and skirts.

Which from 2016 will cease to exist. Ford is announcing the end of manufacturing in Australia as I type this.

[TheFamousEccles]

Totally begging for an enduro. Sprint races are good and the mid-distance races are too (Clipsal, Sandown, etc), but another long race - minimum 8 hours - would be ideal Imo. Enduro races bring into play tactics and durability, which are present in sprint races admittedly, but this is the long-form and things change.

While I'm tangenting here, I would like to see the Clipsal 500 return to being one 250km race on the Saturday - result, podium, parc ferme, line up on the grid in the finishing order of Saturday's race, and have at it for another 250km. Results would be podium of 2nd race, and overall round winner. Happy times ensue.

[wedge]

Instead of Surfers', get the international drivers for Austin enduro.

[ShiftingGears]

small grizzle - I can't bring myself to get out of bed at 3am to watch V8SC from Texas. Where is their core market, the US or AU? I like the idea of races in other countries, but I will be firetrucked if I am getting out of bed at this stupid time of the morning to watch. Not very well thought through, V8SC!

Okay, end of whinge :vader:

Yep, I didn't think it was worth the effort of watching live either.

[TheFamousEccles]

Here's hoping I need to get used to it.

Meanwhile, in AMG land: Erebus testing steering solutions ahead of Darwin - Speedcafe (http://www.speedcafe.com/2013/06/05/erebus-testing-steering-solutions-ahead-of-darwin/)

[TheFamousEccles]

Volvo - V8SC? Kinda, sorta, maybe....

Date set for Volvo V8 Supercars announcement - Speedcafe (http://www.speedcafe.com/2013/06/07/date-set-for-volvo-v8-supercars-announcement/)

[Wasted Talent]

Volvo - V8SC? Kinda, sorta, maybe....

Date set for Volvo V8 Supercars announcement - Speedcafe (http://www.speedcafe.com/2013/06/07/date-set-for-volvo-v8-supercars-announcement/)

Hope this happens as another make would be good, but I would be worried that based on the Erebus example starting this late for a new car for 2014 means it is unlikely to be competitive in 2014.

WT

[Rollo]

Volvo - V8SC? Kinda, sorta, maybe....

Date set for Volvo V8 Supercars announcement - Speedcafe (http://www.speedcafe.com/2013/06/07/date-set-for-volvo-v8-supercars-announcement/)

Not with GRM.

Toyota, Chrysler tips to join V8s (http://www.theage.com.au/sport/motorsport/toyota-chrysler-tips-to-join-v8s-20130517-2js15.html)
It is believed within V8 racing that Chrysler is close to committing to backing a team from next year.
The American make has again been linked with Melbourne-based Garry Rogers Motorsport, which came close to securing an alliance for this year.

If anything, Garry Rogers Motorsport is likely to be running with Chrysler 300s next year.
If the Volvo rumour turns out to be true, I would expect it to be with either Brad Jones Racing and or Dick Johnson Racing following Ford's announcement to scale back its racing operations.

I don't likes to watch race of WTCC and BTCC cars. BTCC cars looks attractive as compare with WTCC Cars. I have watched the race but not impressive.

[zako85]

Volvo - V8SC? Kinda, sorta, maybe....

Date set for Volvo V8 Supercars announcement - Speedcafe (http://www.speedcafe.com/2013/06/07/date-set-for-volvo-v8-supercars-announcement/)

Does Volvo produce any V8 engines to enter this series? I believe the V8 used in XC90 might have been dropped.

[Rollo]

Does Volvo produce any V8 engines to enter this series? I believe the V8 used in XC90 might have been dropped.

They don't need to.

CoTF regs allow you to "debrand" an engine to install in another car.

The New Generation Of V8 Supercars (http://www.v8supercars.com.au/championship/technical/car-of-the-future)
A manufacturer wanting to join the V8 Supercars Championship could even come along with their own V8 engine, used under a parity system to ensure it's on par with the current units in the class, or use a 'category' engine if they wish to go with already-established technology.
- From the V8Supercars own website.

Volvo could whack a Ford, Holden, Aurora, Merc, Kia, Hyundai... Snickers V8 in there if they wanted to.

[TheFamousEccles]

Well, I don't know whether to be pleased that Volvo are going to join the fray, or to be peeved at the torrent of bulls**t and deliberate obfuscation from GRM. I know that when contracts are being negotiated that those involved play their cards very close to their chests, but...

"Garry Rogers meanwhile told Speedcafe.com that a potential Volvo tie-up was “news to me”.

“I take absolutely no notice of any paddock chat because that’s exactly what it is,” he said of the Volvo talk.


The cagey veteran admitted that he is working hard on securing a factory deal for his team, but suggested that having a new car ready for next season would be difficult.
“It’s a process that has been ongoing for quite some time and it’s very frustrating but you’ve just got to keep working, it’s all you can do,” he said of courting a new marque."

Now this...

Rogers: Volvo deal a perfect 50-year present - Speedcafe (http://www.speedcafe.com/2013/06/17/rogers-volvo-deal-a-perfect-50-year-present/)

Good on him I guess, but I do have an irrational dislike for out and out bulls**t and Rogers is a past master.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see how they fare - V8SC as opposed to DTM? An interesting choice for an European manufacturer, I guess they see the worldwide coverage of V8SC as being better than the DTM (Erebus doesn't count IMO, it's a privateer with some AMG support, rather than a full factory blessed outing).

[Wasted Talent]

Not with GRM.

Toyota, Chrysler tips to join V8s (http://www.theage.com.au/sport/motorsport/toyota-chrysler-tips-to-join-v8s-20130517-2js15.html)
It is believed within V8 racing that Chrysler is close to committing to backing a team from next year.
The American make has again been linked with Melbourne-based Garry Rogers Motorsport, which came close to securing an alliance for this year.

If anything, Garry Rogers Motorsport is likely to be running with Chrysler 300s next year.
If the Volvo rumour turns out to be true, I would expect it to be with either Brad Jones Racing and or Dick Johnson Racing following Ford's announcement to scale back its racing operations.

Oops! :) :) :)

WT

[Rollo]

Oops! :) :) :)

WT

Oops is right... I must humbly commit Seppuku for my disgrace.

[TheFamousEccles]

Polestar undaunted by V8 development challenge - Speedcafe (http://www.speedcafe.com/2013/06/18/polestar-undaunted-by-v8-development-challenge/)

More news about the motor for the new Flying Swedish Valiants (Australian members will know what I'm on about :D ).

[zako85]

It's nice that Volvo is working on its own V8 engine. Using a generic engine would have been a bit farcial considering how many mechanical components are already standardized in V8 supercars (I believe transmissions, brakes, and some other parts are shared). It looks like they will resurrect the short lived Yamaha V8 engine that was briefly used in XC90 and S80.

[AndySpeed]

Crazy move. Volvo should be in DTM if anything, not V8SC.

[Iain]

Crazy move. Volvo should be in DTM if anything, not V8SC.

I get the feeling it's more of an importer-led programme than being controlled direct from Sweden. Good to see them enter, the Nissan is looking a lot more on the pace, which should encourage any newcomers.

[wedge]

I get the feeling it's more of an importer-led programme than being controlled direct from Sweden. Good to see them enter, the Nissan is looking a lot more on the pace, which should encourage any newcomers.

GRM getting backing from Volvo Australia, engines from Polestar.

Similar deal with Erebus Motorsports - their engines come from Germany via HWA.

[big_sw2000]

Crazy move. Volvo should be in DTM if anything, not V8SC.


I get the feeling it's more of an importer-led programme than being controlled direct from Sweden. Good to see them enter, the Nissan is looking a lot more on the pace, which should encourage any newcomers.
Well working for Volvo, there is a fair bit of excitement. I think its to do with the fact, the series runs in, obviously Australia, but the USA get a race as well. 2 places Volvo are trying to target selling more cars.

[big_sw2000]

GRM getting backing from Volvo Australia, engines from Polestar.

Similar deal with Erebus Motorsports - their engines come from Germany via HWA.
Plus Polestar, is set up from the company that was TWR. They did a fair bit in Australia

[wedge]

I didn't know that about Polestar. I know TWR are still involved with running Holdens.

[zako85]

Finally, Yamaha's jokes of transversely mounted V8 engines are going to be put to a good use. The versions installed in real world cars were failures. The original Yamaha V8 engine was the 3.4L engine installed in North American Ford Taurus SHO 1996-99. The expensive engine had a bad reputation of grenading itself by spinning cams just after the warranty expired and for being not much powerful than the 3.0L V6 Duratec installed in the base models of Taurus.

Having not learned anything from this experience, Ford contracted once again Yamaha to design and build a V8 engine to be used in Volvo and Lincoln cars early in the last decade (underscoring how hapless Ford had become in the early 2000s, being unable to design on its own a compact DOHC V8 engine for car use). The new 4.4L Yamaha V8 provided you with the screaming 311 horses, which was decidedly embarrassing if you compared this even with the top 6-cylinder engines of that time (e.g. 3.5L V6 in Infiniti G35). The engine was discontinued once Volvo came up with its own better designs for cars like S80 or XC90. Of course, the race spec Volvo engine will have to do very little with the now discontinued production block. So the V8 engine still has a small chance to a glorious redemption, now in motorsport.

I heard the V8SC Volvo is a local distributor's project, and this is why they're entering in V8SC and not in say DTM, although the step from V8SC to DTM is not as difficult since the specifications were designed to bring these two championships closer.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

I think the NGTC cars would be more impressive to watch if they cornered faster. They just look really heavy in the corners so it hardly looks like the drivers are pushing.

[AndySpeed]

Plus Polestar, is set up from the company that was TWR. They did a fair bit in Australia

I thought Polestar came from Flash Engineering?

[Iain]

I thought Polestar came from Flash Engineering?

You're right. They evolved from the first incarnation of Flash Engineering.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

[TheFamousEccles]

A short interview with Jason Bright, covering Le Mans, Allen Simonsen, and the Townsville race this weekend.


http://www.speedcafe.com/2013/06/28/video-jason-bright-speaks-about-his-emotional-le-mans-debut/

[Safak]

A very late reply to the thread creator. I don't know if it was mentioned before but I suggest you to follow SuperGT. Also there are some rumours/information about a merger between DTM and SuperGT.

Mercedes and Nissan involvement in the V8 Supercars resembles Toyota's enterance to NASCAR. It was such an exciting move! Moreover, Volvo's attendance to V8 Supercars may boost the series' international expansion.

[TheFamousEccles]

It remains to be seen about V8SC and their international expansion - current management are now talking down future international race plans and looking to go regional in Australia instead (similar to the Townsville race).

I would be very keen on a V8SC race @ Spa or Donnington, for arguments sake, but reality is a bit closer to home IMO

[dcr22B]

I would be very keen on a V8SC race @ Spa or Donnington, for arguments sake, but reality is a bit closer to home IMO

Under FIA rules, a European race will never happen unfortunately.

[Jack4688`]

I think the BTCC and WTCC are almost as good as they can be, just a few tweaks would make them better.

I like the direction that the WTCC is going in for 2014 - they should finally look fitting at circuits like Monza as they would have to power to actually get round the lap in under 20 minutes - but I fear the cars may look a bit over the top. If they just increase the wheel size to 18" and have a slightly bigger rear wing they'd be something close to how the Super Touring cars looked. The ridiculous new rear wing size and silly wheelarch & door sill extension make them look to much like a wannbe DTM car (this is all based on the look of the Citroen C-Elysee WTCC car). The main technical advantage the WTCC cars (current and 2014 onwards) have over the NGTC cars is the smaller engine producing similar power. I can't stand the sound of the BTCC cars and can't help but think they'd sound better with less cubic capacity screaming away to get the same result.

BTCC has good racing - it's hard to argue with that. But I don't need to see it three times spread between 11am and whenever it finally finishes later that evening - if they went back to the two race format I don't think we'd lose anything and potentially the teams would be spending even less by doing less miles per weekend. From a technical side (other than the engines) they need to get rid of those side skirts. I couldn't quite tell why NGTC cars don't quite look as spectacular as the new rules sounded. Then this week's Autosport SuperTouring fest opened my eyes. It's the side skirts that ruins the look in my opinion - big wheels yes, big rear wing yes, front aero yes, but no side skirts!

From a sporting point of view there are two small problems: one is the lack of international stars; and the other is the independent teams being some manufacturers' only involvement in the series. There's not much the BTCC can do about it having only a few top national drivers and the rest (though competent at touring car racing) being guys who have come up through the support categories. With the WTCC having people like Yvan Muller, Rob Huff, Gabriele Tarquini etc it's hard for the BTCC to appear as nationally diverse or with as high a level of driving talent. The number of manufacturers present in the BTCC has increased but when it's Vauxhalls run by 'Team HARD' or a VW Passat run by..... err the same team, or an Audi run by 'Rob Austin Racing' it loses a bit of credibility. Me and am I'm sure plenty of other BTCC fans would prefer to see Insignias in Vauxhall colours, Audis in Audi Sport colours and Fords in Ford colours. More manufacturer teams to add to Honda and MG would give the championship much more credibility in my opinion.

As for DTM and V8 Supercars - I haven't seen V8s enough to form a sound opinion of them but still prefer it to the DTM. DTM is just a cross between touring car racing and GT racing. It also seems to have fallen into the same trap series like GP2, GP3, WSR, Auto GP and from 2014 Super Formula (formerly Formula Nippon) have fallen in. To wit they have decided to copy as many things from F1 as is possible all the while not realising it only makes their boring series even more boring! Also I find the cars ugly with way too much aero on them.

[zako85]

Some time in late 2010 I randomly tuned to SpeedTV channel. They were just starting the show about the 2010 Surfers Paradise V8 Supercars race. After seeing that glorious finish, I knew I was hooked. Take a look at this:

2010 V8 Supercars Gold Coast Race2 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpEp3janpEU)

also 2011:
Finish of race 1 in V8 Supercars on Surfers paradise - 2011 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvPUYeaWqh0)

Unfortunately, we don't get very good coverage of DTM, BTCC, Fia GT1, or WTCC in the US. You had to wait until the end of year to see race summaries. From what I have seen, I though V8 Supercars is the best, with BTCC also quite nice. DTM seemed kind of boring. The DTM races look to me like F1 in 2011, but without DRS. Very little overtaking and wheel to wheel racing, at least in races that I have seen.

[TheFamousEccles]

I remember watching that race and was totally amped by the wheel to wheel action. I am not a fan of the Surfers track (funnel?) but it came up trumps in that race. Cool post, Zako.

I don't likes to watch race of WTCC and BTCC cars. BTCC cars looks attractive as compare with WTCC Cars. I have watched the race but not impressive.

Is any racing event goind to held except WTCC and BTCC cars? Name the place and the date with complete prescriptions.

Counting Scale (http://www.myscalestore.com/)

[wedge]

Japan's Super GT released their new cars based on DTM regs last week "DTM-compatible" Super GT cars revealed - Racer.com (http://www.racer.com/dtm-compatible-super-gt-cars-revealed/article/307679/)

[TheFamousEccles]

Japan's Super GT released their new cars based on DTM regs last week "DTM-compatible" Super GT cars revealed - Racer.com (http://www.racer.com/dtm-compatible-super-gt-cars-revealed/article/307679/)

They are some very cool looking cars :up:

[cytrus]

woww look really interesting :)

[TheFamousEccles]

Ok, HRT have lost it - Collingwood FFS! No support from me, at all, ever again. Ever. EVER!!!!!!! AAAAAAAARRRRRRHHHHHH :down:

HRT to run Collingwood colours for Sandown - Speedcafe (http://www.speedcafe.com/2013/09/06/hrt-run-collingwood-colours-sandown/)

(for our international friends, Collingwood are an AFL - Autralian Rules football - team, beloved by bogans and other "hand-crankers" and hated by all others). Holden, I expect better value for my tax dollar. Enormously unimpressed.

Rant over. Carry on.

[ShiftingGears]

Ok, HRT have lost it - Collingwood FFS! No support from me, at all, ever again. Ever. EVER!!!!!!! AAAAAAAARRRRRRHHHHHH :down:

HRT to run Collingwood colours for Sandown - Speedcafe (http://www.speedcafe.com/2013/09/06/hrt-run-collingwood-colours-sandown/)

(for our international friends, Collingwood are an AFL - Autralian Rules football - team, beloved by bogans and other "hand-crankers" and hated by all others). Holden, I expect better value for my tax dollar. Enormously unimpressed.

Rant over. Carry on.

I don't understand the logic in this collaboration.

[TheFamousEccles]

In a truly monumental schadenfreude moment, Collingwood have been eliminated from the AFL finals series, leaving HRT to run their colours at the Sandown race - while Eddie "Everywhere" McGuire (Club Chairman) looks for someone to off load his air tickets to Perth for next week. Losers! Beautiful.