Alonso won't give up yet

[grandp22]

Fernando Alonso has shrugged off his retirement in last weekend's Belgian Grand Prix, contending that the fail to score any points whilst two of his title rivals ascended the top two steps of the podium has done no real damage to his bid to add a third championship.



Alonso never won at Spa yet and prospects of closing the 20-point gap separating him from the top of the drivers' table, Alonso setting the pace throughout practice only to find himself out on the wrong tyres at the wrong time during qualifying, leaving him in the wrong place at the wrong time when the starting lights went out on race day.


From unfamiliar lowly tenth on the grid, Alonso found himself strike on the back by the out-of-control Williams of Rubens Barrichello on the opening lap of the grand prix, and as one misfortune seemed to grows he then made the wrong call on tyres in the changeable conditions, dropping him even further down the order. The Spaniard had hauled himself back up to seventh place with just seven of the 44 laps to go when he put a wheel over the kerb and crashed into retirement at Malmedy.


Whilst Vettel and Button both failed to score following their stupid collision at the Bus-Stop Chicane, Hamilton and Webber conversely took the chequered flag respectively first and second to extend their advantage to 28 points over anyone else, with Alonso now 41 points shy of the lead in fifth.



Two times World Champions however, is adamant that he is far from out-of-play yet. Alonso's believe that he can successfully overturn the deficit separating him from new championship leader Hamilton before season's end has been given a big boost by Ferrari's confirmation that it will continue to use its F-duct system in the forthcoming Italian Grand Prix at Monza – the most important race of the year for the Red Scarlet Ferrari taking place as it does on home turf and in front of the adoring tifosi.

[truefan72]

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[SGWilko]

So, because, even with a wet set-up he crashed out, he decides that actually, Belgium 2010 was not that important after all???

Yeah, right!

[ioan]

So, because, even with a wet set-up he crashed out, he decides that actually, Belgium 2010 was not that important after all???

Yeah, right!

Just wait until next weeks WMSC hearing.
There's a chance that a lot of toys will be thrown out of the pram by the Alonso & LdM duo! :D
Especially if Max will be around to pay them some debts!

[Koz]

Mad Max or Nazi Max?

I think Mad Max would set Alonso straight. I am not so sure about Nazi Max.

[SGWilko]

Mad Max or Nazi Max?

I think Mad Max would set Alonso straight. I am not so sure about Nazi Max.

And spanky Max would no doubt offer to do a whip round for him! :)

[Mia 01]

If you don+t have the best car you got to have the mental strenght, Alonso got neither.

[SGWilko]

If you don+t have the best car you got to have the mental strenght, Alonso got neither.

I can only hazard a guess that Ferrari and Santander have put Onslo under a LOT of pressure to take the title this year.

2007 demonstrated that Onslo + Pressure = Stroppy Spaniard

Therefore, we can deduce that;

Stroppy Spaniard + Extremely Competetive Season = Poor Performance.

[keysersoze]

Why would Fernando say anything different? He is a professional athlete--he must maintain his optimism and never-say-die attitude. Moreover, he learned after 2007 how quickly things can change over the course of a couple of races (Kimi comes from behind to win), and he also learned from 2008 how quickly things can change from corner to corner (Felipe had the title until the last corner at Rio).

[ioan]

I can only hazard a guess that Ferrari and Santander have put Onslo under a LOT of pressure to take the title this year.

2007 demonstrated that Onslo + Pressure = Stroppy Spaniard

Therefore, we can deduce that;

Stroppy Spaniard + Extremely Competetive Season = Poor Performance.

:D

[Robinho]

if he said he had given up on the title after gaining the teams support in Germany to make him the favoured driver for the championship it would go down like a fart in a space suit

[jens]

I can only hazard a guess that Ferrari and Santander have put Onslo under a LOT of pressure to take the title this year.

2007 demonstrated that Onslo + Pressure = Stroppy Spaniard

Therefore, we can deduce that;

Stroppy Spaniard + Extremely Competetive Season = Poor Performance.

One thing that in my mind has been clearly clarified this season, is that Alonso isn't really that much-proclaimed "most complete driver" on the grid, being prone to taking certain pressures in F1 too seriously. Both Hamilton and Kubica look closer to this "accolade" at the moment and also Rosberg has been having a better season.

It looks like Alonso's rating largely derives from 2006, when he indeed managed a basically perfect season and managed to defeat Schumacher in a straight fight. But interestingly this has also been his only "perfect" season to date. It is also surprising that Alonso has lost his once great defending skills (Imola '05, Turkey '06 as the most obvious ones), letting rivals past relatively easily both in Canada and Valencia.

[Big Ben]

So, because, even with a wet set-up he crashed out, he decides that actually, Belgium 2010 was not that important after all???

Yeah, right!

What are you talking about?

[ioan]

if he said he had given up on the title after gaining the teams support in Germany to make him the favoured driver for the championship it would go down like a fart in a space suit

His claims before the Belgian GP and after the Qualifying session achieved exactly that.
He should learn to claim only what he can deliver and forget about the fiction he dreams at night.

[Robinho]

that is true, he is talking far too much this year, he is a better performer when he shuts up and drives. He has made some statements this year that are coming back to bite him, another DNF and the Ferrari team orders might come back and bite them also.

[SGWilko]

What are you talking about?

Alonso gambled on a set-up that was more geared towards a wet track - more downforce etc.

So, it begs the question just how did he stack it, given his car was more suited to the conditions at the time.

So now, having talked up his chances before the race weekend, and coupled with screwing up his qually lap, he suddenly changes tack and pronounces;

'hey, 5h!t happens, don't matter I didn't finish, we'll be OK at Monza'

Talk may well be cheap, but he really needs to keep a lid on it until he delivers on track.

I doubt Santander are rubbing their hands with glee right now.

[ioan]

that is true, he is talking far too much this year, he is a better performer when he shuts up and drives. He has made some statements this year that are coming back to bite him, another DNF and the Ferrari team orders might come back and bite them also.

I hope they get bitten already by the WMSC next week.

[Roamy]

I hope they get bitten already by the WMSC next week.

yea that is about the only hope you have.

beg the toad loser

[Big Ben]

Alonso gambled on a set-up that was more geared towards a wet track - more downforce etc.

So, it begs the question just how did he stack it, given his car was more suited to the conditions at the time.

So now, having talked up his chances before the race weekend, and coupled with screwing up his qually lap, he suddenly changes tack and pronounces;

'hey, 5h!t happens, don't matter I didn't finish, we'll be OK at Monza'

Talk may well be cheap, but he really needs to keep a lid on it until he delivers on track.

I doubt Santander are rubbing their hands with glee right now.

First off all, these are the kind of articles I don't even read because I know from the very beginning what they are going to say.

What were you expecting him to say? We're done, let's go to Ibiza?

Santander is sponsoring 2 of the top 3 teams and a number of GPs. I think they get a very satisfactory exposure right now and as far as I know they are a bank... Santander's main concern is Alonso's wdc :laugh:

[Big Ben]

I hope they get bitten already by the WMSC next week.

lame

[SGWilko]

First off all, these are the kind of articles I don't even read because I know from the very beginning what they are going to say.

What were you expecting him to say? We're done, let's go to Ibiza?

Santander is sponsoring 2 of the top 3 teams and a number of GPs. I think they get a very satisfactory exposure right now and as far as I know they are a bank... Santander's main concern is Alonso's wdc :laugh:

Unless you've been on another planet for a couple of years, you may have noticed the increasing financial dilemma faced by the Eurozone.....

Santander, a bank, of Spanish origin, a country on the brink of financial ruin, paid not only a shed load of wonga to make Kimi go west, bu also to get Alonso in the red cars.

Not currently money well spent when every penny, in an austere society, is scrutinised by all.

[Big Ben]

Unless you've been on another planet for a couple of years, you may have noticed the increasing financial dilemma faced by the Eurozone.....

Santander, a bank, of Spanish origin, a country on the brink of financial ruin, paid not only a shed load of wonga to make Kimi go west, bu also to get Alonso in the red cars.

Not currently money well spent when every penny, in an austere society, is scrutinised by all.

If we are to be that scrupulous you'll agree with me that all the money spent in f1 is really well spent in an austere society...

[SGWilko]

If we are to be that scrupulous you'll agree with me that all the money spent in f1 is really well spent in an austere society...

Look, how many sponsors do you know of, that have paid for an under contract driver to 'go fourth and multiply' while putting in his place the most expensive (and, I suggest overrated) driver on the grid?

[Big Ben]

Look, how many sponsors do you know of, that have paid for an under contract driver to 'go fourth and multiply' while putting in his place the most expensive (and, I suggest overrated) driver on the grid?

None

[SGWilko]

None

Santander.

[pallone col bracciale]

If you seriously think that Ferrari would be better off with a disinterested driver than Alonso, then you are very much wrong.

Your evident bias dislike against Alonso is to be expected, but in many ways a compliment as it shows that he is, as many Ferrari fans feel towards Hamilton, a threat.

If Ferrari had two drivers who you and other Hamilton fans liked, then as a Ferrari fan I would not be happy as it would show that there would be nothing for you to fear.

Two WDC's is ample evidence that, with the right tools, Alonso is capable of triumph.

Thank your stars that in his first season at Ferrari the combination has not come to fruition.

There are more seasons to come than 2010, and Ferrari fans know that the history of the Scuderia is that things rarely do not happen overnight.

That is the belief of Kimi fans, thanks to the car he inherited in 2007 and your man Hamilton's generosity.

[SGWilko]

If you seriously think that Ferrari would be better off with a disinterested driver than Alonso, then you are very much wrong.

Your evident bias dislike against Alonso is to be expected, but in many ways a compliment as it shows that he is, as many Ferrari fans feel towards Hamilton, a threat.

If Ferrari had two drivers who you and other Hamilton fans liked, then as a Ferrari fan I would not be happy as it would show that there would be nothing for you to fear.

Two WDC's is ample evidence that, with the right tools, Alonso is capable of triumph.

Thank your stars that in his first season at Ferrari the combination has not come to fruition.

There are more seasons to come than 2010, and Ferrari fans know that the history of the Scuderia is that things rarely do not happen overnight.

That is the belief of Kimi fans, thanks to the car he inherited in 2007 and your man Hamilton's generosity.

My dear fellow poster - Alonso is no threat. He was dealt with by Lewis in his rookie year, and we all know Lewis has some way to go yet to become the complete driver.

2005 was lucky for Alonso, as Bridgestone produced Pirelli replicas.

2006 saw the beginning of the end of the Shoe's dominance. And there was no real other competition at that time.

So you see, the scuderia settling for second best is their problem, not mine.

[pallone col bracciale]

So you see, the scuderia settling for second best is their problem, not mine.

The only person you convince is yourself.

That is a problem, even if you do not recognise it.

[SGWilko]

The only person you convince is yourself.

That is a problem, even if you do not recognise it.

I'm not convinced you are correct.

[ioan]

yea that is about the only hope you have.

beg the toad loser

:laugh:

You mean that not getting banned or losing their points is their only hope?
I hope they punish them! :D

[Mia 01]

:laugh:

You mean that not getting banned or losing their points is their only hope?
I hope they punish them! :D

Yes they deserv som spanking now and then. The judge Max will help them out.

[Garry Walker]

lame

Just so you know, I fully support Ioan`s stance on this issue and I too hope for a harsh penalty for Ferrari.
A ban for mr.santander would be perfect :D ( I know it won`t happen, but it would be funny :D )

[ioan]

A ban for mr.santander would be perfect :D ( I know it won`t happen, but it would be funny :D )

That would be too good to be true, but hey the chances are 50% just like his chances to win the championship, according to Whinnies' probability calculations! ;)

[Saint Devote]

Why would Fernando say anything different? He is a professional athlete--he must maintain his optimism and never-say-die attitude. Moreover, he learned after 2007 how quickly things can change over the course of a couple of races (Kimi comes from behind to win), and he also learned from 2008 how quickly things can change from corner to corner (Felipe had the title until the last corner at Rio).

Racing drivers are not athletes. Motor racing is an ANaerobic activity. They are professional sportsmen.

[Saint Devote]

I think its time for Alonso to begin to employ Senna-Schumacher type racing tactics: just HOW MUCH do you really want this title ........!

[gloomyDAY]

I think Alonso is going through some trepidation of his own.

Vettel isn't the only one making mental mistakes.

[airshifter]

Just so you know, I fully support Ioan`s stance on this issue and I too hope for a harsh penalty for Ferrari.
A ban for mr.santander would be perfect :D ( I know it won`t happen, but it would be funny :D )

Meh, it's not as if team orders will stick to Teflonso. He's already managed to dodge the bullets for having communications regarding other teams information, spins on track for his benefit, etc. They will once again look right past something so blatant.

Which will make it all the sweeter when he realizes that even after the cheating, he still got beat. :D

[mstillhere]

Just wait until next weeks WMSC hearing.
There's a chance that a lot of toys will be thrown out of the pram by the Alonso & LdM duo! :D
Especially if Max will be around to pay them some debts!

I am happy for you.

[mstillhere]

What a nice group of bashers. I have rarely seen people getting together and ganging up against one person. The hatred against Ferrari continues unstoppable on multiple fronts. I actually lost the count on hpw many anti Ferrai threads are there right now. I instead find it disturbing and shameful to see the extend of this hatred and really hope LH will lose miserably. It would only the right reward for his cheating so fondly and lovingly overlooked by all of you bashers.

[Saint Devote]

Having to be somewhat fit for an activity does not make the individual an athlete.

Fighter pilots who undergo far more physical stress than racing drivers are not athletes - yet they do physical training.

All elite combat units undergo far more intensive physical training with running and gymnastics and obstacle courses which has to be maintained - they are not athletes.

I have always ran 3 miles per day and swam 1 mile per day - I am not an athlete.

Athletes are people who compete in athletic type events - such as the decathlon.

But sports like motor racing are anaerobic, not aerobic and for most of the years in racing, physical fitness was not even neccessary. It was the rise of g-forces and the general rise in competition in all areas that gave rise to fitness.

And even today, not all the drivers do as much as Button and Webber for example - what they do is for reasons far beyond what is required.

F1 racing drivers are professional sportsman not athletes whose activity requires a high degree of aerobic conditioning because it is part of their sport.

[Valve Bounce]

Racing drivers are not athletes. Motor racing is an ANaerobic activity. They are professional sportsmen.

This is absolute nonsense and shows that sometimes you know next to nothing about racing drivers. Apart from anyone else, I know for a fact that SchM is a superb athlete, and so is Ant, and so was DC. And this is just for starters.

[gloomyDAY]

But sports like motor racing are anaerobic, not aerobic... :laugh: STD, just shut up. You're spreading something fishy in this thread.

[Valve Bounce]

ath·lete / ˈa[unvoicedth]ˌlēt/ • n. a person who is proficient in sports and other forms of physical exercise.

Definition of ATHLETE
: a person who is trained or skilled in exercises, sports, or games requiring physical strength, agility, or stamina

Origin of ATHLETE
Middle English, from Latin athleta, from Greek athlētēs, from athlein to contend for a prize, from athlon prize, contest
First Known Use: 15th century

I wonder how we can stop that guy from putting his athlete's foot in his mouth.

:p : :D :rotflmao:

[Big Ben]

Just so you know, I fully support Ioan`s stance on this issue and I too hope for a harsh penalty for Ferrari.
A ban for mr.santander would be perfect :D ( I know it won`t happen, but it would be funny :D )

No $h1t. Now who would have thought?

[Big Ben]

My dear fellow poster - Alonso is no threat. He was dealt with by Lewis in his rookie year, and we all know Lewis has some way to go yet to become the complete driver.

2005 was lucky for Alonso, as Bridgestone produced Pirelli replicas.

2006 saw the beginning of the end of the Shoe's dominance. And there was no real other competition at that time.

So you see, the scuderia settling for second best is their problem, not mine.

After this post I can see I've only been feeding a troll here so ta ta and have a nice day.

[SGWilko]

Racing drivers are not athletes. Motor racing is an ANaerobic activity. They are professional sportsmen.

Christ, how do they deal with the Lactic Acid build up? :confused:

[SGWilko]

I think its time for Alonso to begin to employ Senna-Schumacher type racing tactics: just HOW MUCH do you really want this title ........!

Now, why go and say something like that, when you despise Senna's driving tactics so much?

Has it suddenly become acceptable, because it suits your team/driver of the moment combo?

[ioan]

I am happy for you.

Thank you. I appreciate it.

[mstillhere]

You appear to be a person who cannot take criticism in any form. If you cannot recognise that crying about 'bashers' and then bashing someone yourself is a little hypocritical, then we are at a loss. If you cannot discuus F1 in an arena where some are likely to have an opposing opinion, then why on earth would you put yourself through the anguish of discussing it here? :eek:

If Alonso believes he didn't need the Spa victory anyway, then thats positive thinking in my book.. :)

Unfortunately your comment has nothing to do with with what's really going on. The constant unwarrented and absolutely biased "opinions" we all see all over this site is simply repulsive. Apparently the usual talking heads (the usual 4-5 people) whenever have nothing else to do start a huge non sensical number of threads about the most ludicrus topics about Ferrari, accusing them of any crime imaginable and go on and on and on without stopping. It's like they a reach a point of non return where they keep in posting repeting themselves over and over again. They love to echo each other in almost hypnotic way.

My bashing - btw sorry for hurting your feelings buddy - was simply a direct response to this non sense.

I don't see anyone else costantly bashing McLadren or any other team for that matter for just the fun of it adn I am here trying to balance this non sense.

[Mia 01]

Theres some resons for the stick. Blatant teamorders at Ferrari, Also can´t overtake his teammate by himself. He has also hyped upp himself to the skies, I´m nopt suprised people comment on this circumstanses, if not I would.

[Triumph]

I think that Fernando is entirely capable of a spectacular fightback, but I think that Lewis will prevail, if McLaren's developments keep them up to pace.

Mark is (surprisingly) a major threat to my favourite driver (Lewis). After all he has been through in the last couple of years I wouldn't be disappointed to see him win.

[Saint Devote]

Historically it would ne most unusual for a McLaren driven car to beat A Red Bull in such circumstances - because we are witnessing the McLaren driven to its limit while the Red Bull is within its limit.

Remember it was RBR errors and a technical issue that resulted in Hamilton winning at a track that is not the best for the RB6.

Everything maintaining a more or less even keel and the superior car - RB6 - is going to prevail.

[Triumph]

I would favour Lewis pushing a McLaren past its limits than Mark driving a Red Bull within its limits any day.

[Saint Devote]

I would favour Lewis pushing a McLaren past its limits than Mark driving a Red Bull within its limits any day.

That will be extremely risky for dear old Lewis because historically he has this late season tendency to crash - and on the limit all the time leaves no room for error.

:D as we saw at Monza in 2009!

The point is that championships have usually been won by the driver in the car where he is not required to push to the limit. Its just the way it is.

If Hamilton wins the title, given that Webber and Vettel have RB6's then he will have to be considered a really special driver by people like myself.

[Triumph]

That will be extremely risky for dear old Lewis because historically he has this late season tendency to crash - and on the limit all the time leaves no room for error.

:D as we saw at Monza in 2009!

The point is that championships have usually been won by the driver in the car where he is not required to push to the limit. Its just the way it is.

If Hamilton wins the title, given that Webber and Vettel have RB6's then he will have to be considered a really special driver by people like myself.

True, but every year that goes by sees good old Lewis learning from experience. ;) I think he has what is required to win the championship as long as the gap between McLaren and Red Bull doesn't extend too far.

[Valve Bounce]

I think Lewis Hamilton proved that he is a very special driver from his rookie year's performance. No need to go further.

[motetarip]

I think that Fernando is entirely capable of a spectacular fightback, but I think that Lewis will prevail, if McLaren's developments keep them up to pace.

Mark is (surprisingly) a major threat to my favourite driver (Lewis). After all he has been through in the last couple of years I wouldn't be disappointed to see him win.
:up:

[Saint Devote]

I think Lewis Hamilton proved that he is a very special driver from his rookie year's performance. No need to go further.

Lewis is idefinitely very good but special no. He and Jacques Villeneuve on a par probably yes after all the French Canadian was champion of the USA as well as winning the Indy 500 and then they did the same in their first two years in f1.

Special requires rising to the level of a Prost or a Senna or a Schumacher or a Lauda.

Lets see if he can win the title in a car that is clearly inferior to the RB6. JHe is up against the quickest driver in f1 since 2009 and a driver who appears to have suddemly found his focus - both in the best car.

The odds are stacked against Hamilton - but if he is something special - then he can win the championship in 2010. That is his challenge.

[Saint Devote]

Christ, how do they deal with the Lactic Acid build up? :confused:

F1 drivers SEEK a lactic acid response because they require significant endurance around their necks and shoulders - long distance running for example is a waste of time and diminshes muscles.

For example:
The amount of training that Jenson does is for his personal preparation and not relevant to training for racing in a car. Lewis does not do anywhere near what Jenson does and focuses on anaerobic training.

Together with a high proportion of complex carbohydrates in their diet.

[Saint Devote]

True, but every year that goes by sees good old Lewis learning from experience. ;) I think he has what is required to win the championship as long as the gap between McLaren and Red Bull doesn't extend too far.

This is what we are about to discover and will know by November 14, hein?

I stand opposite to you - I do not think he can do it for ALL my reasons given.

[Valve Bounce]

F1 drivers SEEK a lactic acid response because they require significant endurance around their necks and shoulders - long distance running for example is a waste of time and diminshes muscles.

For example:
The amount of training that Jenson does is for his personal preparation and not relevant to training for racing in a car. Lewis does not do anywhere near what Jenson does and focuses on anaerobic training.

Together with a high proportion of complex carbohydrates in their diet.

I think we have already debunked your theory of the definition of athletes - no need to drag this out ad nauseum.

I would suggest you:

1. Check the definition of athletes in Webster's dictionary
2. Check the definition of athletes in the Oxford Dictionary
3. Check the derivation of the word athlete
4. Consider the inclusion of Olympic high divers, downhill skiers, weightlifters, dinghy sailors, fencers, pole vaulters, ski jumpers, figure skaters, etc, etc, etc as in any Olympic competition.

If you disagree, I would suggest we take this to the moderators here to let them decide.

[Valve Bounce]

Lewis is idefinitely very good but special no. He and Jacques Villeneuve on a par probably yes after all the French Canadian was champion of the USA as well as winning the Indy 500 and then they did the same in their first two years in f1.

Special requires rising to the level of a Prost or a Senna or a Schumacher or a Lauda.

Lets see if he can win the title in a car that is clearly inferior to the RB6. JHe is up against the quickest driver in f1 since 2009 and a driver who appears to have suddemly found his focus - both in the best car.

The odds are stacked against Hamilton - but if he is something special - then he can win the championship in 2010. That is his challenge.

When we consider Lewis Hamiltons performance in his rookie year, then one can interpret that Bunsen is a very ordinary pilote. However, I would say that I was most impressed with Alonso's first effort in an F1 car - after that, I expected him to walk across Albert Park Lake on the surface.

[Saint Devote]

I think we have already debunked your theory of the definition of athletes - no need to drag this out ad nauseum.

I would suggest you:

1. Check the definition of athletes in Webster's dictionary
2. Check the definition of athletes in the Oxford Dictionary
3. Check the derivation of the word athlete
4. Consider the inclusion of Olympic high divers, downhill skiers, weightlifters, dinghy sailors, fencers, pole vaulters, ski jumpers, figure skaters, etc, etc, etc as in any Olympic competition.

If you disagree, I would suggest we take this to the moderators here to let them decide.

I dont care what anybody says - I will make up my own mind and I do not consider racing drivers athletes.

Would you have considered people like Piquet or Peterson for example athletes - they did not even exercise - and Lauda grudgingly used to run 4 miles a day? These are athletes?

Or will you declare that a VERY podgy Tony Stewart is an athlete?

I prefer to consider racing drivers as anyone that races as a profession in a separate category. They are racing drivers with no connection to athletes.

PS: a dinghy sailor is an athlete? :rotflmao:
Excuse me for laughing but are people that play bowls or do curling at the winter Olympics athletes too? If so then the term has really been corrupted.

I am sure that the original athletes in ancient Greece would have looked at modern day definitions with utter [and proper] scorn. It ought to be viewed with philosophical contempt :s mokin:

[Valve Bounce]

I dont care what anybody says - I will make up my own mind and I do not consider racing drivers athletes.





You got that right! and we could not care less what you consider. I hope this remains before pino deletes it.

The point here is you are perfectly entitled to make up your mind what you consider, and we are perfectly entitled to consider whatever we like.

But yeah! if Tony Stewart won the Enterprise World Championships sailed in the North Sea, then I would definitely consider him an athlete.

[Saint Devote]

When we consider Lewis Hamiltons performance in his rookie year, then one can interpret that Bunsen is a very ordinary pilote. However, I would say that I was most impressed with Alonso's first effort in an F1 car - after that, I expected him to walk across Albert Park Lake on the surface.

What is your intention here? To attack Jenson out of left field because I support him?

There are few and far between special drivers and even fewer out of the box - Lewis is not one of them. He could develop into a great driver after all he has been groomed by Mclaren for over a decade and he is in one of the top teams - all fair enough.

But we will only know that in time. If he wins the title from under RBR when they have an Adrian Newey car, then that will definitely indicate someone that is on the road to greatness. And the entire RBR management and driver team should be FIRED in that case!

Other than that? Lewis is equal to Jacques Villeneuve at this point and I do not recall hysteria when he came into f1 and did what Hamilton did in his first two years.

[Saint Devote]

You got that right! and we could not care less what you consider. I hope this remains before pino deletes it.

The point here is you are perfectly entitled to make up your mind what you consider, and we are perfectly entitled to consider whatever we like.

But yeah! if Tony Stewart won the Enterprise World Championships sailed in the North Sea, then I would definitely consider him an athlete.

Why do you want to involve the moderators? I have not attacked anyone or insulted anyone. I just debate a point.

You are welcome to dismiss what I say - I have never demanded that anyone agree with me.

You skirt my question on Stewart - if you do not consider him an athlete then how can you do that to current f1 drivers? And how do you consider previous drivers that never excercised but raced and smoked and drank - including people such as Depailler and Amon and won races and/or grands prix to be athletes?

You see my point? I cannot consider racing drivers as athletes.

In fact I am proud that they are racing drivers and find the description to include them as athletes to be demeaning. One does not need to be brave and have courage to race in the 100 meter race or run a marathon.

Going through Eau Rouge or Blanchimont through the Curve Grande on the first lap - or even just a f1 start requires far more than from a tennis player or a soccer player.

[Valve Bounce]

Why do you want to involve the moderators? I have not attacked anyone or insulted anyone. I just debate a point.

You are welcome to dismiss what I say - I have never demanded that anyone agree with me.

You skirt my question on Stewart - if you do not consider him an athlete then how can you do that to current f1 drivers? And how do you consider previous drivers that never excercised but raced and smoked and drank - including people such as Depailler and Amon and won races and/or grands prix to be athletes?

You see my point? I cannot consider racing drivers as athletes.

In fact I am proud that they are racing drivers and find the description to include them as athletes to be demeaning. One does not need to be brave and have courage to race in the 100 meter race or run a marathon.

Going through Eau Rouge or Blanchimont through the Curve Grande on the first lap - or even just a f1 start requires far more than from a tennis player or a soccer player.

The point I want to make here is that you can believe whatever you like and you are perfectly entitled to state that; just don't ram it down our throats and say that someone else is wrong. I know for a fact that SchM is an athlete, and so is Ant by whatever definition you wish to describe athletes. I have no idea who Tony Stewart is, but if he is as accomplished as Ant or SchM as far as fitness is concerned, then I would definitely agree he is an athlete.

As far as dinghy sailors are concerned, the better accomplished ones are athletes, so are Olympic fencers, pole vaulters, downhill skiers, ski jumpers, figure skaters, divers, etc. If you do not, that is your opinion, but don't try to ram it down our throats.

By the way, have you checked out the definition of athlete in the dictionary yet (like I suggested)?

[pino]

Back to Alonso thank you...

[Valve Bounce]

Back to Alonso thank you...

Great driver - defeated SchM twice for the WDC. Very gifted, temperamental, occasionally did some dodgy things, but a great credit to Spain. Ferrari did hte right thing by hiring the guy; I hope he has a Ferrari to drive home in after the race. I know Alesi did. :D But that's another story.

[ioan]

Great driver - defeated SchM twice for the WDC.

That's rubbish that keeps being perpetrated by Alonso 'fans'.
He only defeated MS once in the fight for WDC title, in 2006.
The other time it was KR who fought it out with, MS was not in the title fight that year.

[Valve Bounce]

That's rubbish that keeps being perpetrated by Alonso 'fans'.
He only defeated MS once in the fight for WDC title, in 2006.
The other time it was KR who fought it out with, MS was not in the title fight that year.

My bad :( Memory keeps slipping. Must recharge batteries. I thought that SchM was still driving for Ferrari in 2005 and Alonso had to do better than him to win.

[Saint Devote]

My bad :( Memory keeps slipping. Must recharge batteries. I thought that SchM was still driving for Ferrari in 2005 and Alonso had to do better than him to win.

To recognize the correct situation - Schumi was racing against Alonso but thats because they happened to be in the same race.

The 2005 Ferrari was not at all competitive and during that year Schumi declared quite early on that there is no possibility for fighting for the title.

And the only reason Schumi won a grand prix is because of the tyre problems that caused all except 3 teams to withdraw - the US GP where rightly so Ferrari did not sacrifice their interest and fall on their sword.

Alonso had to do better than EVERYONE to win the title because there was more than 1 driver in all the races.

But for the title specifically his fight was with Raikkonen at Mclaren and THAT was the year Ron Dennis apologized to Kimi because McLaren lost that title despite the driver's efforts. The irony is that Kimi won in 2007 because once again Dennis could not contain himself and his favortism for a specific driver.

[Saint Devote]

Upon reflection, while Dennis saved McLaren from extinction those years back, he was always a corrosive finger in the team as well.

His bias in favor of Senna in 1989 and his total bloody mindedness in 2007 where Hamilton was concerned are two studies in team management and the affect of deranged bahavior based on emotionalism.

[Saint Devote]

Upon reflection, while Dennis saved McLaren from extinction those years back, he was always a corrosive force in the team as well.

His bias in favor of Senna in 1989 and his total bloody mindedness in 2007 where Hamilton was concerned are two studies in team mismanagement and the affect of deranged behavior based on emotionalism rather than reason.

[Valve Bounce]

What is your intention here? To attack Jenson out of left field because I support him?

.

I wouldn't bother. It's just that by your argument, Bunsen is less special than Lewis Hamilton, that's all.

[keysersoze]

I have not attacked anyone or insulted anyone. I just debate a point.

By saying that you don't care what anyone else thinks (about what defines an "athlete") flies in the face of your comment that you are here to debate.

Just terrible. :rolleyes:

[Retro Formula 1]

Now, back to Alonso.

As an athlete, he will compete till the end and hopefully provide great competition and entertainment. I think he needs a huge slice of luck to get back in the title race again but if Lewis and Webber take themselves out of the next race and Seb retires, then he's slap bang in the middle of a 3 way title fight. Then he would be within a win of the top place with 5 races left.

Stranger things have happened. Look at Kimi's championship year.