If Hamilton was in that Red Bull...

[CaptainRaiden]

...do you think he would have overtaken Alonso?

[VkmSpouge]

No, the Hungaroring is a track completely unsuitable for overtaking, Barrichello needed a three second a lap advantage to blow his way by Michael Schumacher (and even then it took a few laps). The Red Bull might have been the class of the field but it never had enough of an advantage to pass the Ferrari. It would have taken a mistake by Fernando Alonso for anyone to have passed him.

[ioan]

...do you think he would have overtaken Alonso?

Not really.

[Daniel]

No

[christophulus]

Ooh, a "what if". I'd go for no, you just can't get close enough to pass.

[Tazio]

...do you think he would have overtaken Alonso? :s ailor: He wasn't. He didn't. And Fred picked up 14 points on him :rolleyes:

[Ranger]

Not today.

[Dave B]

Impossible to say.

[CaptainRaiden]

No, the Hungaroring is a track completely unsuitable for overtaking, Barrichello needed a three second a lap advantage to blow his way by Michael Schumacher (and even then it took a few laps). The Red Bull might have been the class of the field but it never had enough of an advantage to pass the Ferrari. It would have taken a mistake by Fernando Alonso for anyone to have passed him.

Well, Hamilton overtook Petrov after the first couple of laps, with a pretty good maneuver on the outside, although I admit the Renault was a bit out of shape coming out of the corner.

Vettel's pole time was 1.2 seconds faster than Alonso's, and Hamilton's time was 0.8 seconds faster during qualifying. So, I would say the Renault was closer to the Mclaren performance wise this weekend. So, if Hamilton could make it stick, Vettel probably could have as well if he was braver, especially since the Red Bull has such good cornering grip.

However, Hungaroring is probably the worst track to talk about any possibility of overtaking.

[Volky34]

I reckon he at least would have been able to try a couple of times, unlike Vettel who was never in the frame. The kid is surely fast according to the lap times, but he's no real fighter.. He's too mistake-prone , not wise enough and Webbo clearly knows that as we could see in the post race press conference. ;)

It's not that Vettel was being cautious behind Alonso , he just couldn't do it.... :)

[CaptainRaiden]

:s ailor: He wasn't. He didn't. And Fred picked up 14 points on him :rolleyes:

Well, my question wasn't about what you think it is. It's about racecraft, and about Hamilton "probably" having better overtaking skills than both Vettel and Fred combined. ;)

[Tazio]

Well, my question wasn't about what you think it is. It's about racecraft, and about Hamilton "probably" having better overtaking skills than both Vettel and Fred combined. ;)

:s ailor: You forgot to mention Kimi :kiss: :love:

[CaptainRaiden]

I reckon he at least would have been able to try a couple of times, unlike Vettel who was never in the frame. The kid is surely fast according to the lap times, but he's no real fighter.. He's too mistake-prone , not wise enough and Webbo clearly knows that as we could see in the post race press conference. ;)

It's not that Vettel was being cautious behind Alonso , he just couldn't do it.... :)

Probably it would have been too tough for Hamilton as well, since it's a combination of Hungaroring and Alonso's defensive driving in that Ferrari. Still, probably he would have timed and planned the overtaking better than Vettel, and probably gone for a banzai move.

[CaptainRaiden]

:s ailor: You forgot to mention Kimi :kiss: :love:

Should I mention Kimi's name in all of my posts from now on if it provides some sort of satisfaction for you? Use the search option. ;)

[Dave B]

Sorry, why are we wasting time on such a daft hypothetical question?

Ok then, if Hakkinen was driving for Mercedes instead of Schumacher, would he have pushed Barrichello towards the pitwall? If Eddie Jordan was running Red Bull would they have pitted Webber on the same lap as Vettel? If a giant mutant wasp landed on the circuit and flew off with Massa's car, would they red flag the race?

[wedge]

Sorry, why are we wasting time on such a daft hypothetical question?


Nothing daft.

Another example of Vettel's racecraft called into question

[markabilly]

not on this track, but hamilton would have shown some attempts at a pass to put FA on the defensive so as to possibly cause a mistake.

Vettel never tried.

But in the absence of a mistake for FA, the answer is not on this track, no more than webber would have passed FA when webber was behind fred


Besides vettel was still trying to figure out about the drive through rather than to worry over passing Fred

[steveaki13]

I dont think so.

[Dave B]

Nothing daft.

Another example of Vettel's racecraft called into question
Maybe on this day he reasoned that 3rd was better than crashing. A driver in a different championship position may have had different reasoning. Impossible to tell.

[CaptainRaiden]

Sorry, why are we wasting time on such a daft hypothetical question?

My point is that while Vettel is a very fast driver, he's not very good at overtaking, and somebody else in the same car probably would have done a better job. No need to get your panties in a bunch. Half of the forum threads are based on hypothetical questions, especially during the off season. If you don't wanna discuss on this thread, you have plenty of other threads on this forum to "waste" your time with. :rolleyes:

If the mods think this thread is stupid, they may very well delete it.

[ioan]

Nothing daft.

Another example of Vettel's racecraft called into question

When he tried to pass in Turkey and things went wrong people around here rubbished him because he was not thinking about the championship.
Today he did think about it and decided that 3rd place is better than nothing, so the same people will criticize him again.
Is this a case of double measures or what?!

[Retro Formula 1]

If Hamilton was in the Red Bull, the championship would be wrapped up by now.

[ioan]

My point is that while Vettel is a very fast driver, he's not very good at overtaking, and somebody else in the same car probably would have done a better job. No need to get your panties in a bunch. Half of the forum threads are based on hypothetical questions, especially during the off season. If you don't wanna discuss on this thread, you have plenty of other threads on this forum to "waste" your time with. :rolleyes:

If the mods think this thread is stupid, they may very well delete it.

It looked to me that today the only one good at overtaking was Rubens, so what would have Rubens done if he was in any of the other 24 cars on the grid?!

[Ent]

If Hamilton was half a foot taller and was a half-brother of Kimi and they together part-owned a Formula Renault team that hired a close relative of Alonso's, would that make it more difficult for Trulli to pass Vettel around the back half of Spa in a few weeks if the weather forecast said it would rain but it had strangely turned out to be sunny?

I love hypotheticals. They're so useful.

[Dave B]

If the mods think this thread is stupid, they may very well delete it.
If they deleted threads purely on the basis of being stupid, we wouldn't have much to talk about :p

[CaptainRaiden]

When he tried to pass in Turkey and things went wrong people around here rubbished him because he was not thinking about the championship.
Today he did think about it and decided that 3rd place is better than nothing, so the same people will criticize him again.
Is this a case of double measures or what?!

When he loses the championship at the end of the year by 3 points, he's gonna kick himself about today, and how he wasn't brave enough.


If Hamilton was in the Red Bull, the championship would be wrapped up by now.

True.


It looked to me that today the only one good at overtaking was Rubens, so what would have Rubens done if he was in any of the other 24 cars on the grid?!

In that Red Bull, Rubens probably would have overtaken Alonso. :p


If Hamilton was half a foot taller and was a half-brother of Kimi and they together part-owned a Formula Renault team that hired a close relative of Alonso's, would that make it more difficult for Trulli to pass Vettel around the back half of Spa in a few weeks if the weather forecast said it would rain but it had strangely turned out to be sunny?

I love hypotheticals. They're so useful.

So is your post in this thread.


If they deleted threads purely on the basis of being stupid, we wouldn't have much to talk about :p

Imagine how fun this forum would be if we only talked about qualifying and race results. ;)

[ioan]

When he loses the championship at the end of the year by 3 points, he's gonna kick himself about today, and how he wasn't brave enough.

Looks to me that it bothers you more then it bothers him. :\




In that Red Bull, Rubens probably would have overtaken Alonso. :p


The probability being 1%.

[CaptainRaiden]

Looks to me that it bothers you more then it bothers him. :\

Yet I'm the one with the "I don't care" smile on my face, and Vettel on the podium looked like somebody stole his box of candies. SURE it didn't bother him. :rolleyes:

[ioan]

Yet I'm the one with the "I don't care" smile on my face, and Vettel on the podium looked like somebody stole his box of candies. SURE it didn't bother him. :rolleyes:

Whatever you want us to believe, it is obvious that you are bothered.

[truefan72]

its hard to say, except that LH would have given it a go. if there is one thing he can do is be a daring overtaker. Unfortunately that is only 50% of the equation. The other being, would Alonso let him pass? I don;t think those two have had a proper joust on somewhat equal machinery for critical podium slots. Alonso in a renault the past 2 years was not a fair fight. It would be interesting to see if Alonso would stomach a pure pass from LH or have the whole thing end up in tears. Alonso is normally a fair driver in being passed, bu when it comes to LH, his perceived nemesis, all bets are off.

[truefan72]

:s ailor: You forgot to mention Kimi :kiss: :love:

kimi was also a somewhat daring overtaker. I'd say he would have given it a shot as well

[truefan72]

Sorry, why are we wasting time on such a daft hypothetical question?

Ok then, if Hakkinen was driving for Mercedes instead of Schumacher, would he have pushed Barrichello towards the pitwall? If Eddie Jordan was running Red Bull would they have pitted Webber on the same lap as Vettel? If a giant mutant wasp landed on the circuit and flew off with Massa's car, would they red flag the race?

you could have simply not read the thread and posted. I do that now and then in topics that I think are useless. :|

[truefan72]

If Hamilton was in the Red Bull, the championship would be wrapped up by now.

lol,

probably, along with the 7 pole positions.


Vettel is still young though and there is no doubt he is quick, but is he going to become another Massa? Because I see a guy who can run away with races once in the lead but struggles to show that same form when asked to work his way to a victory. That's the difference between him and the 2 best on the grid Alonso and LH.

[truefan72]

Whatever you want us to believe, it is obvious that you are bothered.


correction

Whatever you want me to believe, it is obvious that you are bothered.

[Daika]

I don't think it is possible to overtake unless you have a 2sec advantage.

[ioan]

correction

Whatever floats your raft.

[CaptainRaiden]

Whatever you want us to believe, it is obvious that you are bothered.

Oh I love these inane games, even though I don't understand how it's really played. Am I winning? :hmph: :erm:

[Tazio]

kimi was also a somewhat daring overtaker. I'd say he would have given it a shot as wellI'd say it's a pretty good bet that if Montoya was in the RB he would have tried overtaking Fred and either would succeed, have several offs, and not quit trying until his engine expired :D

[ioan]

Oh I love these inane games, even though I don't understand how it's really played. Am I winning? :hmph: :erm:

Don't know, you'll have to ask your fellow players.

[Sleeper]

No, because its the Hungaroring, the Ferrari is faster on the streights and Alonso is one of the best defenders in the pitlane.

At many other tracks it might be a different matter but here it was never going to happen.

[CaptainRaiden]

Don't know, you'll have to ask your fellow players.

Not that it wasn't brilliant from the start, it's getting even better now. Probably some oxygen would do you good. That would also mean time away from the Schumacher and Vettel action figures hugging each other. ;)

[ioan]

Not that it wasn't brilliant from the start, it's getting even better now. Probably some oxygen would do you good. That would also mean time away from the Schumacher and Vettel action figures hugging each other. ;)

Looks like you were right about the qualification of the game you are playing, now that I think about it it looks like you are the winner. :p

[Dave B]

Mornington Crescent.

[Saint Devote]

If Hamilton was in the Red Bull, the championship would be wrapped up by now.

Oh yeah?

Well let me remind you that the only driver THAT HAS made the best use of his car over recent seasons, when it has been as dominant as the Red Bull was today, was Jenson Button during the first half of 2009.

No other driver on the grid today, aside from Schumacher has EVER done that.

[Saint Devote]

I think if Hamilton had have been in the Red Bull he would have won from pole and there would have been no need to overtake Alonso.. :p

If Webber in the RB6 was his teammate, Mark would have beaten him on the same strategy h employed today. Hamilton is brutal on his machinery and could not have made the soft tyres last as the immaculate Webber did today.

Sweetest sight today: Hamilton breaking his car :D

[Saint Devote]

Hamilton and Alonso - Neither would have budged and both would have crashed out.

Anyone remember the 2006 win of Hamilton at this track in GP2?

Then no wonder Hamilton will remain reticent to speak out on the Schumi-Rubens storm in a teacup.

[Jag_Warrior]

However, Hungaroring is probably the worst track to talk about any possibility of overtaking.

I was kind of thinking the same thing. But knowing that Alonso can get somewhat iffy while being passed, and Vettel really needed the points, I began to think that he just wasn't going to chance it. But now, put Kamui Kobayashi in that Red Bull and either Alonso would have gotten passed or they'd have both wound up in the gravel. I like that guy! He just doesn't care!!! :D I'd like to clone Kamui and Schumacher and have 10 of each of them out there.

[Tazio]

Hamilton and Alonso - Neither would have budged and both would have crashed out.

Anyone remember the 2006 win of Hamilton at this track in GP2?

Then no wonder Hamilton will remain reticent to speak out on the Schumi-Rubens storm in a teacup.

But either or would have cake-walked to the win in the RB in that scenario. ;)

[truefan72]

I'd say it's a pretty good bet that if Montoya was in the RB he would have tried overtaking Fred and either would succeed, have several offs, and not quit trying until his engine expired :D

yep i was a JPM fan. He would most certainly have taken a shot and probably succeed

[555-04Q2]

If an elephant was able to fit it's ar$e into the Red Bull would it have passed Alonso :?:

[mstillhere]

not on this track, but hamilton would have shown some attempts at a pass to put FA on the defensive so as to possibly cause a mistake.

Vettel never tried.

But in the absence of a mistake for FA, the answer is not on this track, no more than webber would have passed FA when webber was behind fred


Besides vettel was still trying to figure out about the drive through rather than to worry over passing Fred

I think vetten tried a couple of times, if memory serves me right, losing the control of his car as a result on both occasions hence his decision not to chance and bring hame as many point as possible.
PS I wonder if it was worth risk it all for a couple of extra points on a very difficult track

[Rusty Spanner]

If an elephant was able to fit it's ar$e into the Red Bull would it have passed Alonso :?:

Easily. With an Elephant onboard the Red Bull would have had enough downforce to be able to drive clean around the outside of Alonso in the last corner, then reach over with its trunk and blow so hard down the Ferrari's airbox its rear wheels would have come off.

[I am evil Homer]

If Webber in the RB6 was his teammate, Mark would have beaten him on the same strategy h employed today. Hamilton is brutal on his machinery and could not have made the soft tyres last as the immaculate Webber did today.

Sweetest sight today: Hamilton breaking his car :D

Except this "hard on tyres" thing has been shown to be utterly wrong this year. Canada proved that.

[Mark]

I think if McLaren had Red Bull's car they would be in the clear lead by now. Red Bull for all their engineering excellence are showing that they are still a relatively new team and can still stuff things up!

[Tazio]

I think if McLaren had Red Bull's car they would be in the clear lead by now. Red Bull for all their engineering excellence are showing that they are still a relatively new team and can still stuff things up!I'll take it three steps further. Williams would win the WCC in the RB6

[Mark]

I'll take it three steps further. Williams would win the WCC in the RB6

Interesting. So you reckon that Williams still have what it takes and that it's just the car that's letting them down?

[Tazio]

Interesting. So you reckon that Williams still have what it takes and that it's just the car that's letting them down?

I'm going on the talent level of the drivers. I think RB, and NH could win in that car. Not by the margin that McLaren, or Ferrari would. I think the Lotus pilots could come darn close. :)

[CaptainRaiden]

Oh yeah?

Well let me remind you that the only driver THAT HAS made the best use of his car over recent seasons, when it has been as dominant as the Red Bull was today, was Jenson Button during the first half of 2009.

No other driver on the grid today, aside from Schumacher has EVER done that.

Well, well, I had a hunch that Jenson Button was gonna get dragged into this thread, even though he has no place in a thread about overtaking, and that it was going to be you! Surprise, surprise! I'm sure you make Jenson Button and all his sane fans very proud. :p


Hamilton is brutal on his machinery and could not have made the soft tyres last as the immaculate Webber did today.

Sweetest sight today: Hamilton breaking his car :D

Hmm, do you realize that your boy got completely destroyed on pace by Hamilton this weekend? Button couldn't even make it to Q3 and qualified 12th while Hamilton with the SAME CAR qualified 5th, and was running 4th until the gearbox decided to go kaput. Be glad Lewis' Mclaren failed or it would have added much more to what was an already humiliating weekend for Button. :dozey:

[CaptainRaiden]

I think if McLaren had Red Bull's car they would be in the clear lead by now. Red Bull for all their engineering excellence are showing that they are still a relatively new team and can still stuff things up!

I agree. I think their biggest problem is the people in-charge of management. Stupid comments from Helmut Marko like "Webber should remember where he was 3 years ago" etc. should not be said when they're managing two volatile personalities.

The way Martin Whitmarsh is behaving right now IMO is the perfect way to manage a Formula 1 team and their two drivers.

[Big Ben]

If Hamilton was in that Red Bull he would have been this and the next year's champion by now.

[donKey jote]

if markabilly's sister had balls she'd be his husband :dozey:

[Mia 01]

Seb is a better driver than Lewis in every way.

[Valve Bounce]

...do you think he would have overtaken Alonso?


Short answer:"NO!"

[555-04Q2]

Seb is a better driver than Lewis in every way.

B U L L S H ! T.

[Saint Devote]

Well, well, I had a hunch that Jenson Button was gonna get dragged into this thread, even though he has no place in a thread about overtaking, and that it was going to be you! Surprise, surprise! I'm sure you make Jenson Button and all his sane fans very proud. :p



Hmm, do you realize that your boy got completely destroyed on pace by Hamilton this weekend? Button couldn't even make it to Q3 and qualified 12th while Hamilton with the SAME CAR qualified 5th, and was running 4th until the gearbox decided to go kaput. Be glad Lewis' Mclaren failed or it would have added much more to what was an already humiliating weekend for Button. :dozey:

Whats humiliating about scoring points? You always write in emotional terms - you would be better served if you discovered reason.

Secondly - you may gave noticed that it was Jenson first who led the championship, they both have two wins - Jense's particularly cerebral - and are a handful points apart in the championship list.

But then when has reality ever swayed your "feelings".

Jenson Rocks! And next weekend he will once again do the London Triathlon while the challenge of that issued by Hamilton remains [cowardly so] avoided.

In the RBR with the current management - Jense would have once again run away with the title with win after win in such a dominant car - he proved THAT. Not Lewis, he REQUIRES significant guidance from nanny and he would likely have done NO BETTER than Vettel up to this point.

[CaptainRaiden]

Whats humiliating about scoring points? You always write in emotional terms - you would be better served if you discovered reason.

Says the epitome of contradiction and heavily biased man-love for a certain driver. You do realize that if Hamilton's gearbox hadn't failed, he would have scored points in 4th, while Jenson would have finished 9th, right? As has been the case in almost all dry races this season, where Jenson has been thoroughly outclassed by Lewis.

Also, since you're such a prostitute for the points table, Lewis is ahead of Jenson in points, and this is keeping in mind two mechanical failures for Lewis versus one for Jenson. So, I guess there's no rocket science in who's outperforming whom.


Secondly - you may gave noticed that it was Jenson first who led the championship, they both have two wins - Jense's particularly cerebral - and are a handful points apart in the championship list.

But then when has reality ever swayed your "feelings".

The two "wins" were both in changing conditions where Jenson took advantage of a clever strategy. Nothing to take away from him, he is a decent driver, but the fact remains that he is yet to beat Lewis on raw pace alone in dry conditions.


Jenson Rocks! And next weekend he will once again do the London Triathlon while the challenge of that issued by Hamilton remains [cowardly so] avoided.

I'm sorry but WTF does Triathlon have to do with F1? Jenson can win the Olympics, but he'll still get his a$$ handed to him by Lewis in F1, and that's an undeniable fact so far.


In the RBR with the current management - Jense would have once again run away with the title with win after win in such a dominant car - he proved THAT. Not Lewis, he REQUIRES significant guidance from nanny and he would likely have done NO BETTER than Vettel up to this point.

You do realize that Lewis came close to winning the championship in his rookie year against a two-time champion teammate, beating him by using his setups, AND against a very strong Ferrari with Kimi and Felipe. Also, he did it the next year thoroughly outclassing his teammate in the same car.

WHILE Jenson has had to wait for 9 years, until he got the ABSOLUTE fastest car by a mile, with supreme aerodynamics and arguably the most efficient double diffuser in 2009, and even then was outclassed by Rubens in the second half of the year. Also, his now characteristically poor qualifying performance in the second half of the year is showing up in 2010 as well.

In fact, midway through the season at the German GP, Brawn had to sabotage Rubens' race to get Jenson more points. So, even after having the best car in 2009, he barely was able to defend his first half points haul, and won the championship in the penultimate race (Brazilian GP 2009). That can HARDLY be called "dominance". :rolleyes:

[airshifter]

I don't think Lewis would have made the pass either, nor would have any of the top drivers under their current circumstances. I actually think Vettel would have tried harder if not for realizing that he has wasted a lot of points this season not thinking about the entire season. Combined with it being Alonso to pass, that's just opening the door to another race with no points scored.

I do think Lewis is among the best overtakers in the current field, but without better conditions it would have been a really hard move and probably very risky.


What I want to know is if Webber could have made the move. With the pace he had I think he might have been one of the drivers that could have pulled it off on that day.

[Saint Devote]

I don't think Lewis would have made the pass either, nor would have any of the top drivers under their current circumstances. I actually think Vettel would have tried harder if not for realizing that he has wasted a lot of points this season not thinking about the entire season. Combined with it being Alonso to pass, that's just opening the door to another race with no points scored.

I do think Lewis is among the best overtakers in the current field, but without better conditions it would have been a really hard move and probably very risky.


What I want to know is if Webber could have made the move. With the pace he had I think he might have been one of the drivers that could have pulled it off on that day.

Hamilton is not averse to risk that most of the drivers would avoid.

I watched him in GP2 and in Hungary where he won from the back.

I also watched him trying to beat Vettel out of pitlane two abreast - where was they screaming and the shouting then?

SILENCE. Hypocrysy at work - a double standard.

Lewis, is every bit as ruthless as Senna and Schumi. In time it will out!

[ShiftingGears]

I also watched him trying to beat Vettel out of pitlane two abreast - where was they screaming and the shouting then?

Are you kidding?

[ShiftingGears]

What I want to know is if Webber could have made the move. With the pace he had I think he might have been one of the drivers that could have pulled it off on that day.

I don't think so - as Alonso put it, you can have a bad lap around the Hungaroring and get the final corner right, and you won't get passed.

[Mia 01]

Nothing wrong with Lewis, even in a superior car as RBR could he beat the mighty Alonso


The poor cars is suffering and Jenson is complaining, I like it, it fast down the straights.

[Dave B]

Jenson Rocks! And next weekend he will once again do the London Triathlon while the challenge of that issued by Hamilton remains [cowardly so] avoided.
As the other thread is closed, may I take this opportunity to ask you - for the 5th time - to explain why you feel that avoiding taking part in a triathlon for fear of injury is "cowardly", but Adrian Newey racing in the Ginetta series is "idiocy"?

I'm sure there's a good reason for your seemingly contrary stance.

[Daniel]

Because it suits his ridiculous views.......

[Z926A12]

...do you think he would have overtaken Alonso?


doubt it. Vettel is a better driver anyhow

[Saint Devote]

As the other thread is closed, may I take this opportunity to ask you - for the 5th time - to explain why you feel that avoiding taking part in a triathlon for fear of injury is "cowardly", but Adrian Newey racing in the Ginetta series is "idiocy"?

I'm sure there's a good reason for your seemingly contrary stance.

Firstly I did not say that it was cowardly not to participate - I said that offering Jenson a challenge, as Lewis did, then backing out and using his father to do so was the cowardly act. One does not offer a challenge then run away from it at second thought, making it worse by asking someone else to do it - that is the domain of the coward.

Have you ever taken part in a sports event? I do bi-athlons - running and swimming because I do not enjoy cycling. I have done this since my military service in Israel.

An injury sustained from a sporting event that is well organized is usually very mild and will heal quickly especially whem someone is exceptionally fit.

At no time is this life threateniing or permamnent.

But the issue as I mentioned before is not only that. It is when a driver or a vital asset such as Newey - who is not replaceable [there are more drivers] - indulges in one of the most dangerous forms of motor racing - that of non-professional club racing - when the team is in line to win the championship, that it is irresponsible at best.

Off season or when the championship is not possible - then do it if you must - but as we saw with Webber and in the past such as with the late wonderful Patrick Depailler, it has significant potential to compromise a season or even destroy a career.

So if I put myself in the place of Mateschitz, and know how drivers when close to the championship have even described how they avoid even walking up or down stairs if they can in case they twist an ankle, I would not want and prefer someone that is as vital as Newey not be involved in racing crashes. To me that is both logical and rational.

Jenson takes part in the triathlon and did so in his championship winning year because he had given his word before he knew he would be in line to win the title and a wonderful charity depends on his participation. Had he been injured - and he finished second last year - it is forgiveable.

Jenson is the type of driver that is not a coward by character and is a toughie - he considers the neck rests that drivers use when they drive circuits such as Suzuka to be "sissy pads" and will never use one.

This is my explanation to you.

In motor racing these days, there is so much money involved depending on a driver's results and the sustainability of someone like Newey that the care-free romantic days gone by cannot return.

It is no different to corporate assets that today no longer are long business lunches with bad food to eat allowed. Executives and key people have included in their contracts that they will go to gym and keep their vital signs in as good order as possible.

Racing is also a business and these matters are as important.

[Saint Devote]

doubt it. Vettel is a better driver anyhow

How is that a valid conclusion?
Alonso has won two championships consecutively and does not have an RB6 yet is not too far away from Vettel.

In addition, El Nano does not make the same sort of errors usually as does Vettel and he has beaten Schumacher in straight fights albeit that he does not have teh same awareness on the track as Schumi - remember Monte Carlo 2010 :D

[Saint Devote]

Did you go on holiday in the two weeks after the Chinese GP or something? Its pretty obvious you didn't read this forum.

Did the media carry on as they have with Schumi?

Did ex-drivers and people from f1 attack as they did Schumi?

No.

When it come sto Schumacher there IS a double standard - he is held to a level unfairly and Rubens is a cry-baby.

[Dave B]

Thank you for finally answering my question. I shall say no more on the subject, I feel that your words speak for themselves.

[Saint Devote]

Thank you for finally answering my question. I shall say no more on the subject, I feel that your words speak for themselves.

:D You are welcome!

[Daniel]

Thank you for finally answering my question. I shall say no more on the subject, I feel that your words speak for themselves.

Did you get the same bit of vomit come up in your throat that I did? :confused:

[Saint Devote]

Firstly Vettel is not a seven time WDC, and does not have a controversial reputation like Michael Schumacher so is unlikely to get the coverage to justify your comparison. Secondly Ruben's has not cried or expressed any emotion of that nature regarding this incident. Since the post race interviews he has not discussed this subject in any depth and I should imagine he's moved on, so how you come to the conclusion he is a cry baby is beyond me. :confused:

So Schumi is to be shown a double standard because of his success? No good.

Rubens did his usual passive-aggressive tantrum because of the issue he carries as number 2 to Michael. It is similar to that of Eddie Irvine who never avoids a chance to attack his former teammate.

Both these drivers suffer from being legends in their own minds.

And I am not against these drivers - I just think that they do themselves a disservice at times and show the pyschological affect that Schumi has had on them.

I also realize and accept that my attiudes in motor racing are different to yours.

Although what this has to do with Lewis in an RB6? We are off topic here!

[henners88]

So Schumi is to be shown a double standard because of his success? No good.

Rubens did his usual passive-aggressive tantrum because of the issue he carries as number 2 to Michael. It is similar to that of Eddie Irvine who never avoids a chance to attack his former teammate.

Both these drivers suffer from being legends in their own minds.

Ruben's has not driven for Ferrari for 5 years now so get over it, the comparison with Irvine is stale.

Schuey was not targeted because of his success but more because of his controversial past and I make that clear in my previous post. If a criminal gets out of prison and reoffends, the media will always mention past crimes in order to make any story more juicy. In comparison Schuey has done things in the past I'm sure he is not proud of and the media are unlikely to forget that, especially when he reminds us of how he used to behave. Simple as that, and the media circus is a very fickle world.

[wmcot]

...do you think he would have overtaken Alonso?

No, it would be way too crowded in the cockpit. ;)

[Garry Walker]

If Hamilton was the Red Bull, the championship would almost be over. Thankfully for the competition, Red Bull does not have such high-calibre drivers.

[Mia 01]

As it stands, he wouldnt beat Mark.

[UltimateDanGTR]

As it stands, he wouldnt beat Mark.

have you ever studied maths?

[SGWilko]

have you ever studied maths?

I think they majored in metalshop...........! :laugh:

[Wanton use of humour may be in evidence in this post]

[Mia 01]

If it was Lewis driving Sebs car last race, noone would have laught.

Lewis was lucky.

[airshifter]

What, lucky to be as fast as he was? :confused:

Or are you focussing some negativity at the small 'off' Lewis had in the changing conditions? If thats the case I think you'll find it demonstrated how good Lewis's car control was as he didn't snatch the accelerator and bury it in the kitty litter. A minor mistake and a great drive IMO.

Very minor. Anyone who has ever done any type of performance driving in changing conditions should be aware that the first driver on the track is most often the first caught out by the changing conditions. Those following have the benefit of the tire tracks and the mist that help define how wet the track is.

A lot of other drivers had incidents just as bad if not worse, and they had at least some indicators of the conditions from the cars leading.