At Edmonton, was the IRL exposed and has hit rock bottom?

[Mark in Oshawa]

I ask you guys, is this the low point for this series?

Brian Barnhart's decision will cost them tickets sold next year I suspect. Not to mention elsewhere.

I think the IRL cant go any lower in many ways. I was and want to be an optimist about this series, and I like Randy Bernard, but every day he leaves Barnhart in charge of the racing, they will lose credibility..

[Chris R]

I think this has pretty much been a perpetual question since the inception of the IRL and time and time again it has been proven that it can sink even lower... so, no this is not rock bottom...... However getting rid of BB is probably a prudent move at this point and may actually prevent a further plummet into oblivion.....

[Jag_Warrior]

There's an old stock market saying used when a stock tumbles: "never try to catch a falling knife." I don't know if the IRL has bottomed out or not. But everytime that I've thought that AOWR couldn't fall any further, or that things couldn't get any worse... they manage to prove me wrong. :dozey:

The only reason I tune in is because I'm in the habit of watching open wheel racing. But anymore, I'm like the guy who goes to a boring party just because all the bars have closed. I don't like stick & ball sports, so auto racing is my last refuge. I feel like I am making an effort - but because I can still remember how it used to be, it ain't easy to watch and accept how amateur hour it's all become. But I have no illusions that the people that are still players in AOWR can't screw up a lot more than they already have. They can. If there's at least one stick of furniture left, these goofs could find a way to set it on fire too. These are smart people. They COULD do better. But for some reason, they just can't seem to get it together.

[anthonyvop]

The single biggest issue I have with the IRL is that they keep on flogging a dead horse.
Same recycled ideas. Same recycled people. Same recycled coverage.
Since it's inception these recycled materials have led to one, consistent downward spiral.
When they hired "Rodeo guy" I held out a glimmer of hope that he would clean house and try new ideas. Sadly, he apparently is doing what people are saying "That is the way we do it."

[Easy Drifter]

As I suggested earlier I think, if he would take the job, Scott Goodyear would be good. He is unflappable, was a good driver and understands racing and the mechanics. He prepared his own cars at one time. Yes he is a poor colour man but so what.
I knew Scotty when he was racing in FF with little money. He was ridiculed when he took a Dale Carnegie course but he went further than any of those making fun of him partially because a very shy man learned how to present himself.
Also IC needs to learn that a rule applied to one track may be stupid at another. They do not seem to be able to grasp that there are basic differences between an oval and a road course.
Talk to drivers and team owners, many of whom are former drivers, before you make rule changes. Actually listen to what they say not just pay lip service to asking them. Sure you will get different opinions but most will have similar ideas.

[Chris R]

There's an old stock market saying used when a stock tumbles: "never try to catch a falling knife." I don't know if the IRL has bottomed out or not. But everytime that I've thought that AOWR couldn't fall any further, or that things couldn't get any worse... they manage to prove me wrong. :dozey:

The only reason I tune in is because I'm in the habit of watching open wheel racing. But anymore, I'm like the guy who goes to a boring party just because all the bars have closed. I don't like stick & ball sports, so auto racing is my last refuge. I feel like I am making an effort - but because I can still remember how it used to be, it ain't easy to watch and accept how amateur hour it's all become. But I have no illusions that the people that are still players in AOWR can't screw up a lot more than they already have. They can. If there's at least one stick of furniture left, these goofs could find a way to set it on fire too. These are smart people. They COULD do better. But for some reason, they just can't seem to get it together.

very good analysis.

[Chris R]

OK, who are you going to get to replace him? Look at what CART/CC went through when Wally finally retired for real. It was not pretty before Tony was given the job - and he was still no Wally D. (In all fairness, it needs to be mentioned that Wally was not brilliant his first year or two either, but very quickly grew into the job.) It's not an easy position. You need the right balance of experience, sense of fair play, perspective, a thick skin, and a clear understanding of your role and it's effect on the entire series.

Good luck finding that person. Oh, and that person needs to be willing to do the job, so there's no use in throwing out names like Mario, etc.

Still, I agree that the current incumbent has to go. His history is one of inconsistancy and downright bias. Contrary to an earlier post, I don't believe he ever had a good year.

good point. I suggested AJ - but I doubt he would do it - perhaps someone could convince Paul Tracy in a couple of years - he might be good at it... but I have no clue who would WANT to do it.....

[anthonyvop]

good point. I suggested AJ - but I doubt he would do it - perhaps someone could convince Paul Tracy in a couple of years - he might be good at it... but I have no clue who would WANT to do it.....


Why does it have to be a former, successful race car driver? Why does it have to be a driver at all?

Major league Umpires and NFL referees are not former players but they make split-second decisions and are usually right,

[Easy Drifter]

The umpires and referees came up through the minor leagues just like the players. Many referees, played hockey at one time. Most NHL referees were linesmen before they became referees.
I agree it doesn't have to be a former driver but they do have more insight into what things are like on track.
They don't have to ask 'What is it like out there?'

[SoCalPVguy]

At Edmonton, was the IRL exposed and has hit rock bottom?


It cannot much lower can it ?
Sparse crowd.
Invisible TV coverage on an obscure digital cable network
WWE-like orchestrated joke of a finish
Milka... in an anti-American communist dictator's car... 'nuff said

HOW could it be any lower ??? --- then again, that's what I thought three years ago.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Why does it have to be a former, successful race car driver? Why does it have to be a driver at all?

Major league Umpires and NFL referees are not former players but they make split-second decisions and are usually right,

Tony, It is clear to have credability with the racers and the public, it really would be a good idea if the guy making the calls has actually at least raced at some level. All the refs, umpires and the like in other sports all played those sports. Brian Barnhart I doubt even knows how to break the speed limit, much less race.

[Easy Drifter]

When I was involved inmajor races as an official (F1, Can Am, Atlantic and World Championship Endurance races) our Clerk of the Course had never raced but had been Clerk of the Course at various level for over 10 years. He had several F1 and other major races under his belt. As most of you know I raced for several years. I sat on one side of him and our VP on the other, He also had raced for many years including in a semi factory team. Both of us had earphones on listening to everything. We did not have mikes. If anything slightly contentious came up there he would look at us and say what he thought with his mike off. We would usually nod yes. If either disagreed there was a quick discussion that only took a few seconds and the decision made. I think we overuled him once in the 6 or so races I was there.

[Scotty G.]

At Edmonton, was the IRL exposed and has hit rock bottom?



HOW could it be any lower ??? --- then again, that's what I thought three years ago.


Ohh, its not hit "rock bottom" yet. Its way, way down there. But not at the absolute bottom.

Get a car into the crowd. That would be rock bottom (and the official end of Indy Car Racing).

The Hulman-George Family selling IMS to the France family and the Indy 500 becoming a stock car race. That would be down near the bottom.


Still got a few spots left to fall to, before the floor is reached.

[anthonyvop]

Tony, It is clear to have credability with the racers and the public, it really would be a good idea if the guy making the calls has actually at least raced at some level. All the refs, umpires and the like in other sports all played those sports. Brian Barnhart I doubt even knows how to break the speed limit, much less race.

MLB Umpires and NFL referees have no pro experience at all. Some ex-pros have tried but it is found that they make lousy arbitrators as they have pre-concieved notions about who or what is happening.

[Chaparral66]

[quote="Scotty G."]Ohh, its not hit "rock bottom" yet. Its way, way down there. But not at the absolute bottom.
The Hulman-George Family selling IMS to the France family and the Indy 500 becoming a stock car race. That would be down near the bottom.QUOTE]

That's not gonna happen. Mr. Hullman himself will come back from the grave to put the kibosh on that, bet on it.

Does anyone know where I might be able to see the race from Edmonton (or at least the end of it)? Like to see what all the hubbub is about. Mark...?

[garyshell]

Tony, It is clear to have credability with the racers and the public, it really would be a good idea if the guy making the calls has actually at least raced at some level. All the refs, umpires and the like in other sports all played those sports. Brian Barnhart I doubt even knows how to break the speed limit, much less race.


MLB Umpires and NFL referees have no pro experience at all. Some ex-pros have tried but it is found that they make lousy arbitrators as they have pre-concieved notions about who or what is happening.


Where did anyone, other than you, suggest that they had to be pros? They just need some seat time, or as Easy Drifter suggested joined at the hip by some who has had seat time.

Gary

[anthonyvop]

Where did anyone, other than you, suggest that they had to be pros? They just need some seat time, or as Easy Drifter suggested joined at the hip by some who has had seat time.

Gary

Names like Al Unser, Unser Jr.(???) and Mario Andretti have been bandied about

[Easy Drifter]

Well two out of the three might not be bad except Mario could have a conflict of interest, leaving just Unser Sr.
By the way Tony did you ever see former Toronto Maple Leaf Eddie 'The Entertainer' referee a Hockey game? Now that is an experience! :D
Further NHL officials work their way up. A couple of refs and one linesman that officiated in the OHL when I played Jr. A eventually worked in the NHL.

[anthonyvop]

Well two out of the three might not be bad except Mario could have a conflict of interest, leaving just Unser Sr.
By the way Tony did you ever see former Toronto Maple Leaf Eddie 'The Entertainer' referee a Hockey game? Now that is an experience! :D
Further NHL officials work their way up. A couple of refs and one linesman that officiated in the OHL when I played Jr. A eventually worked in the NHL.

Not a hockey fan.

MLB Umpires work their way up from the minors. Why can't the IRL do that. Their are some great marshals in the SCCA, NASA and other smaller series. Pick the best and have them work their way up....F2000, Indy lites, ICS.

[Lousada]

At Edmonton, was the IRL exposed and has hit rock bottom?

HOW could it be any lower ??? --- then again, that's what I thought three years ago.

Next year there is the same cars, same teams, same drivers and as far as we know same BB. Why would next year be any better than this year?

[Lousada]

Not a hockey fan.

MLB Umpires work their way up from the minors. Why can't the IRL do that. Their are some great marshals in the SCCA, NASA and other smaller series. Pick the best and have them work their way up....F2000, Indy lites, ICS.

Yes, why can't they do that? If you want to be an umpire/referee in any other sport they give you a clear path with transparent criteria for you to make a career. If you want to be an IRL official how do you that?

[SarahFan]

the IRL has been exposed from its inception.....

[Chris R]

I like the idea of the chief steward coming up through the ranks - the problem is that there really are few to no set "ranks" in racing - there is not a clear path through AOWR that is overseen by one (or multiple) sanctioning body that operates by the same basic principles and fundamental rule book....

The more I think about it, the real problem is that the IRL just happens to be at the top of a very disjointed and dis-organized pile of racing that is loosely known as AOWR.... In that sense one really has to applaud NASCAR, they have done a great job bringing all of American Stock Car racing under one roof (more or less) with one (more or less) unified and clear vision of how it is done and what is it means to be successful....

Personally, I do not care for the type of racing that NASCAR has become - but they have a vision, they have a plan and they have successfully implemented their plan..... The IRL and AOWR in general has no clear plan, no clear vision and has been far from successful....

[SarahFan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maur%C3%ADcio_Gugelmin

[Mark in Oshawa]

This assertion that a Chief Steward must be a pro is nonsense just as having someone who drove truck and never raced be a chief steward. Oh right, BB proved kissing the right butt can get you a really nice gig....

The problem the IRL has right now with Brian is he has ZERO racing experience as a driver. Not that one has to be a rocket scientest to understand how a race car takes up the whole track to make a perfect corner, but it seems that theory has missed Brian as well.

There is no judgement in what he did Last Sunday. He didn't think about the implications of what he was ruling and he is delightfully inconsistent in how he makes these calls. Making a call on a block on a 200 foot runway when he doesn't make calls like this on ovals such as Texas on Danica or Helio just tells us all about how politically tone deaf he is.....

Taking a race away in the last 3 laps from a popular driver in this case is living proof that this man has no idea.

To replace him, I would look at a racer,but if there is an official out there in another form of racing that understands the pressures and political implications of decisions made, than by all means look at him. The point is, the old way of doing things in the IRL is now really been exposed. The safety team debacle at Texas and now this decision proves to me that this year, Randy Bernard is now understanding that Tony George was a firm believer in the "peter principle" and hired accordinginly...