NASCAR to leave Indy?

[MDS]

Yes this is a NASCAR story, but lets be real, if the Brickyard 400 were to go away next year it would have massive effects on the ICS in 2011 and beyond. If nothing else NASCAR appears to be pushing IMS to add lights and go to a Saturday night show, and that would be a capitol cost.

The upside I've suggesting a Fall 400 at the speedway for a while and if the Brickyard were to leave I'm certain the idea of a second ICS date at the speedway would suddenly get consideration.

The stories are making the rounds
http://www.indystar.com/article/20100727/SPORTS0109/7270328/1086/LIVING04/As-Brickyard-attendance-tumbles-Kentucky-Speedway-becomes-threat

http://www.ibj.com/blog/article?articleId=21316

And IMS is cutting Brickyard ticket prices.
http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/sports/auto_racing/nascar/ims-slashes-prices-for-2011-brickyard

[Mark in Oshawa]

I don't think NASCAR will leave just yet....It is in the end the IMS who has to make the call on that....

[bratfry]

I received an email from IMS asking me to renew my tickets for the 2011 race on July 24. I did.

[penske15]

i hope they do leave. having those 3400 pound dumpsters trudging around indy is embarassing. the people have spoken. AT LEAST HALF of them didn't come to the race when near 400,000 showed up to brave record heat for indy.

[NickFalzone]

IMS/ICS needs the money. If there's a deal to be made, they will make it. I will be stunned if NASCAR does not come back next year.

[edv]

But wait!
Didn't I hear the TV announcers drone on and on about how the BY400 and the D500 were the 2 biggest prizes in NASCAR????

Or was that just more drama?

[Lee Roy]

i hope they do leave.

I also hope they leave. It would be fun to see what IMS/IICS would do without the funds received from the BY 400.

[call_me_andrew]

But wait!
Didn't I hear the TV announcers drone on and on about how the BY400 and the D500 were the 2 biggest prizes in NASCAR????

Or was that just more drama?

They've been saying that for years.

But then they also said it about the Southern 500. Ask someone from Darlington about that.

[Lousada]

IMS wants the Nationwide race from ORP:
http://www.indystar.com/article/20100730/SPORTS01/7300345/1004/SPORTS/Speedway-might-take-Nationwide-race-away-from-ORP

[call_me_andrew]

I'd rather watch a modified race at IMS.

[Jag_Warrior]

I also hope they leave. It would be fun to see what IMS/IICS would do without the funds received from the BY 400.

What does a beaver do after about 2 days when his leg is caught in a trap?


Though the tight-lipped Hulman-George clan has never divulged financial information, motorsports business experts have estimated the IRL has lost more than $400 million since its inception in 1996.

Sources close to the IRL said the series lost $22 million in 2009 and is headed for another eight-figure loss this year. IRL officials have cut $2 million in overhead in the last year, have raised $3 million in cash annually with a new title sponsorship deal with Izod, and tallied $2 million in profits from the series’ popular Brazil race, said motorsports business experts. That still leaves a $15 million hole to close.

Motorsports business experts estimate the profitability of the race for the IMS is still around $10 million to $13 million. But less than five years ago, it was more than double that.

Ticket revenue has declined more than $10 million and the loss of All-State as title sponsor cost the IMS another $2 million annually, motorsports business experts said. Factor in revenue declines in concessions, parking and other ancillary revenue and the drop is approaching $20 million.

NASCAR officials could be using Kentucky as a threat to leverage a better deal in Indianapolis, but Brown said IMS officials should be concerned, nonetheless.

“Even if [NASCAR] decides to schedule Kentucky on another weekend, that would have a big impact on the Brickyard 400’s profits,” Brown said. “I’m sure the race here gets a big draw from Kentucky, and NASCAR is risking oversaturating the market."

NASCAR decline not good for open-wheel racing (http://www.ibj.com/nascar-decline-not-good-for-openwheel-racing/PARAMS/article/21414)

[call_me_andrew]

I thought it was interesting that the 400's crowd was estimated at 140,000. That's still better than the average NASCAR race; it just gets lost in those huge grandstands.

[DavePI2]

if you believe there were 140,000 people their then you must believe that there really is debris on the track when those cautions are thrown and the finishes arn't scripted. If nascar claims there were 140 then there probably was really no better then 100,000. The place was empty except on the front straight. It's not the economy either , people are getting tired of watching make believe racing. If nascar leaves goodby and don't let the door hit you on the way out, you should have never been there anyway.

[nigelred5]

Indycar is apparently out of most if not all of the ISC (France) tracks next year where they receive no promotion from the tracks(France). Maybe NASCAR(France) is trying to play a little tit for tat threatening to pull Cup out of Indy. I don't hear the sisters saying they want NASCAR out. NASCAR and ISC know how much the money from that race supports not just the track, but the series they obviously would love to kill. Would Brian France really pull NASCAR out of IMS?

Personally, I see a little openware fare between the two series on the horizon.

[Jag_Warrior]

If anything, I figure this is just ISC/NASCAR catching IMS while it's in a weak position and using Bernie Ecclestone style negotiating tactics to get what they want. As long as IMS has to use its profits to support the IRL to the tune of $15 to 20+ million a year, ISC knows that IMS can't really afford to lose the BY400. NASCAR probably doesn't want to lose it either. But in a game of chicken, NASCAR has a tank and IMS has a bicycle. Especially to Cup (or Nationwide, for that matter), the IRL poses no threat whatsoever, so I don't think NASCAR particularly cares whether the IRL lives or dies. In fact, NASCAR is actually in this strong position simply because the IRL is alive (and IMS has to keep it breathing).

[garyshell]

To add a bit of fuel to all this speculation, the local papers and media are abuzz with stories of a pending announcement from the Kentucky Speedway that they have secured a July date for a NASCAR race in 2011. Hmmmmm.

Gary

[call_me_andrew]

if you believe there were 140,000 people their then you must believe that there really is debris on the track when those cautions are thrown and the finishes arn't scripted. If nascar claims there were 140 then there probably was really no better then 100,000. The place was empty except on the front straight. It's not the economy either , people are getting tired of watching make believe racing. If nascar leaves goodby and don't let the door hit you on the way out, you should have never been there anyway.

The seats in the turns were full. The bare spots were only in the north and south chutes.

Only suckers sit in the straights at Indy anyway. You can see half the track sitting in the turns; you can only see what is directly in front of you in the straights.

[garyshell]

The seats in the turns were full. The bare spots were only in the north and south chutes.

Only suckers sit in the straights at Indy anyway. You can see half the track sitting in the turns; you can only see what is directly in front of you in the straights.


You can't see diddly squat in the straights. We went to the first F1 race and sat across from the pits. The only time we saw the cars was when they were entering and exiting the straight or when in the pits.

Gary

[Marbles]

NASCAR ain't going anywhere fast. The Hulmans and NASCAR need each other and the France gang is just trying to squeeze a better deal out of The Brickyard.

If I were the Hulman's I'd call them on it, As a Hulman, standing akimbo -- chest out, I would insist -- "don't let the door hit you in the arse". No, no, wait, I'd tell them, "Here's your hat, what's your hurray?" I like that line better.

And if they left I'd start plastering and painting. A good chance to get the Shrine back in shape.

[Lee Roy]

The Hulmans and NASCAR need each other . . . . . .

NASCAR needs the Hulmans like a Mockingbird needs a Craftsman cordless drill.

[DavePI2]

the one year I sat in the paddock was 06 f1 race and montoya took out one third of the field on the first turn. Come too think of it that was when mcclaren fianally got tired of him wrecking their cars(he started it by running into his teammate) and fired him.

[DavePI2]

nascar isn't bringing that much money into indy with the crowds they have been pulling the last couple of years. Indy has been their for 100 years, they were their before nascar was popular and will be their long after it has returned to being just a hillbilly sport.(which it is quickly approaching and all the managed finishes and phony rule changes can't stop it.)

[call_me_andrew]

nascar isn't bringing that much money into indy with the crowds they have been pulling the last couple of years. Indy has been their for 100 years, they were their before nascar was popular and will be their long after it has returned to being just a hillbilly sport.(which it is quickly approaching and all the managed finishes and phony rule changes can't stop it.)

Yeah, and then this whole internet fad will be over too!

[Lee Roy]

nascar isn't bringing that much money into indy with the crowds they have been pulling the last couple of years. Indy has been their for 100 years, they were their before nascar was popular and will be their long after it has returned to being just a hillbilly sport.(which it is quickly approaching and all the managed finishes and phony rule changes can't stop it.)

Do you think that hilbillies know the proper use of "their", "there" and "they're"?

[nigelred5]

The seats in the turns were full. The bare spots were only in the north and south chutes.

Only suckers sit in the straights at Indy anyway. You can see half the track sitting in the turns; you can only see what is directly in front of you in the straights.


IMHO, The middle of turn 3 in the Northeast vista is the place to sit. You see coming off two, the entire backstretch all the way through 3 and most of hte way through 4. The grandstands block too much at the south end of the track. H grandstand was the place to sit for the road course events.

[chuck34]

IMHO, The middle of turn 3 in the Northeast vista is the place to sit. You see coming off two, the entire backstretch all the way through 3 and most of hte way through 4. The grandstands block too much at the south end of the track. H grandstand was the place to sit for the road course events.

Middle of turn 3 is exactly where I sit for the BY400. Have since about the second year. And let me tell you, it was EMPTY this year. Well that is until the race started and everyone spread out, that made it look a bit more "full".

[call_me_andrew]

I'd rather sit at the enterance of turn 1. The posts can get in the way, but at least it comes with a view of the pits.

[Jag_Warrior]

the one year I sat in the paddock was 06 f1 race and montoya took out one third of the field on the first turn. Come too think of it that was when mcclaren fianally got tired of him wrecking their cars(he started it by running into his teammate) and fired him.

If Montoya was "fired", then why did Daimler-Benz have to broker a deal with McLaren-Mercedes for him to drive for Ganassi? I don't think McLaren was going to renew his contract for the next year. But I also don't think that he wanted to drive for McLaren the next year anyway.

As for how much money the BY400 brings into IMS, I guess if the $10-$13 million in profits that the BY400 brings to IMS isn't "that much money", then the $22 million that the IRL loses annually isn't "that much money" either. So instead of the cost cuts that we've seen, why isn't IMS ramping up spending and promotion of the IRL? And if IMS loses the BY400 as a revenue source, do you think it'll spend more, less or the same on the IRL? That's the question, IMO.

[Mark in Oshawa]

i hope they do leave. having those 3400 pound dumpsters trudging around indy is embarassing. the people have spoken. AT LEAST HALF of them didn't come to the race when near 400,000 showed up to brave record heat for indy.

You know, you should hire yourself out to a marketing firm. Why spend lots of money on marketing survey's when you have all the answers!

It is really simple. The 400 isn't going anywhere anytime soon, and I think the real reason NASCAR isn't drawing as well is too many NASCAR races in the Midwest where the economy is the weakest.....Chicago, 2 Michigans, your NW trips to Iowa and Kentucky....it is just maybe too much....THAT, and knowing the mentality of people, once they know they can walk up on race day and get tickets, they don't pre order...and when they don't pre order, they often say the hell with it if they figure it will be too hot.....


of course..that is just MY theory..and I admit it as much.....

[garyshell]

More stories surfacing about a July NASCAR race at KY Speedway.

http://sports.myway.com/news/08052010/v2049.html

Seems bizarre to hold two races within 130 miles of each other in July.

Gary

[Mark in Oshawa]

More stories surfacing about a July NASCAR race at KY Speedway.

http://sports.myway.com/news/08052010/v2049.html

Seems bizarre to hold two races within 130 miles of each other in July.

Gary

The thing is, National Speed Sport News reported today that Kentucky Date is coming from Atlanta, so that scotches the idea that the 400 was being moved to Sparta KY....

[garyshell]

The thing is, National Speed Sport News reported today that Kentucky Date is coming from Atlanta, so that scotches the idea that the 400 was being moved to Sparta KY....

I don't see the 400 being moved to Sparta, but it sure makes no sense for either venue for both races to be that close together in time and distance.

Gary

[Mark in Oshawa]

I don't see the 400 being moved to Sparta, but it sure makes no sense for either venue for both races to be that close together in time and distance.

Gary

It makes you wonder, but to walk away from Indy now would be a black eye for NASCAR.

[call_me_andrew]

Let approach this another way. If you had a racing series of your own, would you want a date at Indy?

[call_me_andrew]

More stories surfacing about a July NASCAR race at KY Speedway.

http://sports.myway.com/news/08052010/v2049.html

Seems bizarre to hold two races within 130 miles of each other in July.

Gary

Martinsville and Bristol are only 170 miles apart and they have back to back races in March.

[nigelred5]

a little off topic, but according to this quote from an article about hte austin F1 project, apparently IMS is a NASCAR track.

"Epp said as many as 20 Tilke employees will be in Austin over the next two years to design and oversee construction of the first U.S. track that is being built specifically for Formula One. Past F1 U.S. races have used NASCAR tracks or other facilities."

[Jag_Warrior]

Let approach this another way. If you had a racing series of your own, would you want a date at Indy?

Yes. But it's a business deal, not an exercise in sentiment. So whether it's Bernie Ecclestone or Brian France, they'll negotiate the best terms and will always remain prepared to walk if they don't get what they want. NASCAR knows that IMS needs them right now more than they need IMS. I think it's going to come down to who blinks first. The NASCAR boys have been playing IMS like a fiddle for over 15 years now, so I'd put my money on IMS blinking.

[Mark in Oshawa]

a little off topic, but according to this quote from an article about hte austin F1 project, apparently IMS is a NASCAR track.

"Epp said as many as 20 Tilke employees will be in Austin over the next two years to design and oversee construction of the first U.S. track that is being built specifically for Formula One. Past F1 U.S. races have used NASCAR tracks or other facilities."

NASCAR technically owns no tracks, and when F1 ran at the Glen, it wasn't a NASCAR track at all.

Last I looked, the Hulman family owns the Speedway, the road course they built isn't a NASCAR track, and the oval wasn't a "NASCAR" track..it is an INDY car track where NASCAR is honored to run at....