Lose Barnhart Or Lose Fans - What Can The Irl Afford Now?

[disko]

I think its apparrent that todays call against HCN was the last straw. I think its coming down to either getting rid of Barnhard or the IRL is going to be losing fans with stupid, rediculous unjustifiable calls. And how he had to have the Dallara vote rigged for 2012.

SO, who else agrees that Barnhardt time is up and he needs to leave the series before the fans just tune out and the only ones left leave. Like I said last week, I allready have 8 toes out the door.

THe only fans left are the die hards, and were looking for that exit sign.

[Mark in Oshawa]

The Dallara vote wasn't "rigged"...it was a mutually agreed decision from the governing body, team owners and promotors.

That said, Brian's best before date expired last year. I have thought he is too heavy handed and he was this time too....

Of course, if you read the rules...well techinically the call he made was right, but he I guess never heard Bill France Sr.'s view on racing...where he always was of the opinion the winner should be just and be the guy people thought who won when they went home.....

[nigelred5]

They have seemingly cleaned house of just about everyone visible from the pre unification IRL. The call was correct, but that doesn't justify a stupid passing rule in the first place. It's time he left as well, but I suspect he's essentially the sister's custodian for the league until they are confident Bernard is getting the job done.

[00steven]

I'm not looking for the exit. The IRL has a new chassis, a new engine and some new tracks coming up so I'm excited. I understand why people are so upset right now but everything has it's lows. I just hope the rest of the fans can tough it out some more or else we may have no series at all.

[Chris R]

Don't get me wrong, I am not big fan of BB - but the only problem with the call here is that it occurred 3 laps from the end and Helio did not stop when he was told to do a drive through almost immediately..... I have seen ample evidence here that, by the known rules, there was an actionable offense (i.e. "blocking"). It is not like they waited until 20 minutes after the race to change their minds - Dixon was shown the checkered flag..... Helio is the one who decided to ignore the drive through and the one who apparently used tactics that were against the rules (no matter what he or any of us may have thought of those rules).... so in that sense BB did his job and did it as well as can be expected...

I would also point out that if every driver knew he or she could push someone into the marbles at that point there would be no passing there in a matter of 10-20 laps and we would all be groaning about no passing.....

[Griffon]

If that stupid rule were to be strictly enforced, the pole sitter would be black flagged after the first lap at every road race. And, the driver on the inside would be black flagged on every restart.

[disko]

TO strip Helio of a race for that was hardcore. Lets just look at consistancy, such as those race starts. THey're wived off and the second attempt is worse than the rest? Funky debris (briscoe, texas)...HElio deserves the right to lead the 500 ......bs man. that aint racing.thats why there pace laps....ITs time for a change. I really wonder what the real deal is with Cotman.

Granted, the dude had been steadfast in what he's doing as far as 'running' a league, but not in officiating, and my point is that his negative visibility is impacting the die hard fan base.

They did get plenty of face time on the networks yesterday. However, in one segment, the reporters didn;t even know who won the race, except to say the Indy Car series is looking for any visibility they can get in this insignificant series. That hurts.

[FIAT1]

He would not call on Danica if position as Helio. What a garbage. They should be able to race as they want not by some fiction lines and fixed outcome. Pure garbage nothing more.

[usgrandprix]

That call was horrible.

If I see something like that again I'm done with IndyCar until Barnhart is out.

[beachbum]

That call was horrible.

If I see something like that again I'm done with IndyCar until Barnhart is out.Bye.

[DBell]

Don't get me wrong, I am not big fan of BB - but the only problem with the call here is that it occurred 3 laps from the end and Helio did not stop when he was told to do a drive through almost immediately..... I have seen ample evidence here that, by the known rules, there was an actionable offense (i.e. "blocking"). It is not like they waited until 20 minutes after the race to change their minds - Dixon was shown the checkered flag..... Helio is the one who decided to ignore the drive through and the one who apparently used tactics that were against the rules (no matter what he or any of us may have thought of those rules).... so in that sense BB did his job and did it as well as can be expected...

I would also point out that if every driver knew he or she could push someone into the marbles at that point there would be no passing there in a matter of 10-20 laps and we would all be groaning about no passing.....

I disagree that BB did his job as well as can be expected. Have you ever seen an NBA game? or NFL game? At the end, in crunch time, the good officials tend to let them play a little more and not call every violation like they might earlier in the game. They'll still call the important fouls, but for the sake of letting the players decide the game, they let a little more go on.

That's where Brainfart did a poor job. How he could look at what transpired and decide that a penalty had to be levied just shows another reason why he's not the one for the job at hand. In my opinion, it's a ill conceived and silly rule to force the driver to take a specific line. If he can't pick what line he wants to take, then I don't see any real racing happening in the future. I see an orchestration by handcuffing drivers. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for preventing drivers changing their lines in the braking zone to block and drivers swerving down straights to block, but forcing them to take a certain line around the track or face penalty makes for bad racing to me. A driver should have to pick a line and stay with it, but he should be able to choose.

As far as Will being moved to marbles, so what? At the end of these races, there is a single line and anything off it is going to have marbles. If 2 drivers are side by side, then they are going to picking up some marbles. Also, Helio was way off the inside off the line at turn 1, so I'm sure he picked up marbles there too. When they left turn 1 side by side, they were both twitching and squirming around. That's why Dixon was able to make up so much ground on both off them.

[usgrandprix]

Bye.

Childish reply that has nothing to do with the topic.

[DBell]

Childish reply that has nothing to do with the topic.

Hey, that's one of the ways that IndyCar builds a fan base. It's the tough love, don't let the door hit your butt on the way out technique. See how well it's worked so far? :s mokin:

[garyshell]

That call was horrible.

If I see something like that again I'm done with IndyCar until Barnhart is out.


Bye.


Childish reply that has nothing to do with the topic.


Not really. I think it was pretty clear that if you think you won't see something like that again or Barnhart to go away, you might as well be done with IndyCar now. It was curt, but spot on.

Gary

[usgrandprix]

Not really. I think it was pretty clear that if you think you won't see something like that again or Barnhart to go away, you might as well be done with IndyCar now. It was curt, but spot on.

Gary

I'll make a leap of faith and give BB credit for that.

Yeah, I'm sure Barnhart has another like that in him. Praying he moves on...

[DBell]

If this is posted somewhere else, then sorry for the repeat.

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/robin-miller-time-for-brian-barnhart-to-go/

You knew Robin would have something to say about TGBB.

[beachbum]

Not really. I think it was pretty clear that if you think you won't see something like that again or Barnhart to go away, you might as well be done with IndyCar now. It was curt, but spot on.

GaryPerhaps I was a bit curt, but I do find the intolerance shown by some posters to very reminiscent of the party line on another, rather infamous forum that now serves as a focal point for a rabid few who just hate the IRL. Quite frankly, those people can just go away as they are disruptive, and offer nothing but criticism. No series is perfect.

What I find particularly odd is the fact that almost every driver fully supported the ruling. If almost all of the drivers didn't have an issue with it, why are some fans going berserk over the call? IMHO, for some it is just a hot point they can rally around to promote another agenda.

Maybe I am a rarity on most forums, but I want the IRL to survive and thrive. I also want the officials to enforce the rules, even rules the fans don't understand. In every sport, there are rules that may not make sense on the surface, but they are rules.

I have to admit, Helio's hissy fit was a classic. But pushing and shouting at officials is just a "bit" over the line.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Perhaps I was a bit curt, but I do find the intolerance shown by some posters to very reminiscent of the party line on another, rather infamous forum that now serves as a focal point for a rabid few who just hate the IRL. Quite frankly, those people can just go away as they are disruptive, and offer nothing but criticism. No series is perfect.

What I find particularly odd is the fact that almost every driver fully supported the ruling. If almost all of the drivers didn't have an issue with it, why are some fans going berserk over the call? IMHO, for some it is just a hot point they can rally around to promote another agenda.

Maybe I am a rarity on most forums, but I want the IRL to survive and thrive. I also want the officials to enforce the rules, even rules the fans don't understand. In every sport, there are rules that may not make sense on the surface, but they are rules.

I have to admit, Helio's hissy fit was a classic. But pushing and shouting at officials is just a "bit" over the line.

All the drivers saw this as a block? I am curious if they would be so quick to say that if they were the ones in Helio's shoes.

If they all say it is a block, then they are essentially justifiying BB's decision and I really don't know if I buy that.

The fans saw it as just racing...so if the drivers like their gig, they might do well to consider this.

As for Brian Barnhart, his best before date expired last year...

[Mark in Oshawa]

The only part of Robin Miller's take on things I don't like is that he slags Barnhart as an ex Truck driver/parts changer....
As a trucker, I must say, BB would be a dark spot in a truckstop parking lot with the logic he uses...

Egomanical suck up should have been gone 20 seconds after Tony was given the boot...

[beachbum]

All the drivers saw this as a block?

If they all say it is a block, then they are essentially justifiying BB's decision and I really don't know if I buy that.

I am sure not all, but all who have commented seem to agree it was a "block" as defined by the rules. Does any other interpretation really matter to the drivers? Obviously, Helio would disagree.

So are you suggesting the drivers didn't tell the truth as they see it?

I respect the opinions that it is a dumb rule, particularly on wide open airport runways, but it was still a rule with consequences if it was violated.

[Scotty G.]

Yes, booting Barnhart will solve all the problems of Indy Car.


CART, Champ Car and Indy Car have been whining about the directors of competition for DECADES now.

Dallenbach Sr. sucked.

Kneifel sucked.

Cotman sucked.

Barnhart sucked.


Did I leave anyone out?

Who you wanna hire, that you won't be bitching about 10 minutes into their tenure next season?

Barnhart's main problem with many of you, is he's a Indy Racing League guy. He's Tony George's hire. He was around long before many of you switched your allegiances to Indy Car.

Not saying he is great at his job. But he's also a scapegoat. And Robin Miller's near fanatical obsession with the guy, is a big reason why many of you hate the guy.

Guess what? Cotman agreed with the decision this past weekend. So did Little Al. Are they morons too? Will the fans "leave" because of their decisions too?

[anthonyvop]

I am sure not all, but all who have commented seem to agree it was a "block" as defined by the rules.

I don't. Helio drove the line he had to. it wasn't a block.

[garyshell]

Barnhart's main problem with many of you, is he's a Indy Racing League guy.

First Wally did most assuredly did NOT suck.

Second the real issue is the quoted sentence above. Anytime anyone dares speak a word against anything to do with the IRL, you have to trot out the old us versus them argument. It's trite and it's wrong.

The ruling BB made was correct. But the rule BB made was the single most asinine rule I have ever heard of in my 50 years of being a race fan.

Gary

[mileman]

The ruling BB made was correct. But the rule BB made was the single most asinine rule I have ever heard of in my 50 years of being a race fan.

Gary

I agree 100%. The rule goes against what most who follow racing would find logical and reasonable. (And I can join you in the "50 year club.") It is more of an attempt to control an outcome. It also has no common sense aspect in the minds of the casual fan. I wonder how many of those just thought the race was rigged - like WWF and the lot...

[downtowndeco]

IMO midway through that corner Helio did a slight jag to the left, just enough to make a difference. Watch the tape closely. Also, if it was Danica that did it instead of Helio you'd all be applauding BB for black flagging her.

.

[anthonyvop]

Well at least there is one silver lining to this debacle.......Hardly anybody saw it.

The Edmonton race garnered a .24 rating.

http://www.ibj.com/irl-tv-ratings-inching-up-or-stalling/PARAMS/post/6754

[Scotty G.]

Anytime anyone dares speak a word against anything to do with the IRL, you have to trot out the old us versus them argument. It's trite and it's wrong.




I do?

We all know what is going on with Barnhart. The drumbeat to get rid of the guy has started, primarily, because he was a IRL guy. Miller has been beating the drum for years and now many of the CART people, who now call themselves Indy Car fans again, are following along.

Read Miller's latest rant. He wants to get rid of EVERYONE who Tony George hired. He even names the people who need to go.

Why? Because they worked in the IRL before the great "You-Ni-Fi-Ca-Shun" happened?

Maybe Barnhart does suck. Maybe he does need to go. But this is more a vandetta by a lot of disgruntled former CART fanatics, who think everything about the old IRL was bad. This just in......it wasn't. ;)

[Scotty G.]

Well at least there is one silver lining to this debacle.......Hardly anybody saw it.

The Edmonton race garnered a .24 rating.

http://www.ibj.com/irl-tv-ratings-inching-up-or-stalling/PARAMS/post/6754


Tone,

That was last year's Edmonton Airport Race, that got the .24

I would guess, with a lousy time slot, this year's will inch under .2, when Indy Car finally decides to have them come out.

[Lousada]

IMO midway through that corner Helio did a slight jag to the left, just enough to make a difference. Watch the tape closely. Also, if it was Danica that did it instead of Helio you'd all be applauding BB for black flagging her.

.

It was not about what Helio did in the corner, it was about what he did on the straight. And BB has never blackflagged Danica so you have no idea what our reactions would be if it ever happened.

[beachbum]

I am sure not all, but all who have commented seem to agree it was a "block" as defined by the rules.I don't. Helio drove the line he had to. it wasn't a block.I was referring to the drivers actually on the track - not people posting on forums

[Mark in Oshawa]

Maybe Barnhart does suck. Maybe he does need to go. But this is more a vandetta by a lot of disgruntled former CART fanatics, who think everything about the old IRL was bad. This just in......it wasn't. ;)
You were doing so well, I was agreeing with things you said Scott.

No, I don't think Miller wanted him gone because he is a pro-CART guy, any more than I don't think you are anti-CART, oh wait, you ARE!!!!!!

No, seriously, I am going to differ with you here. I don't think people want Barnhart gone because he was IRL. I defended Barnhart before the unification. I was/am from the other side of the fence, but I think Barnhart when he first came up stabilized and straightened out a lot in the rules side of things in the IRL of the early part of this decade. That said, Brian has blown more calls than he should at this level for a man with his experience. The reason we want him gone doesn't come from where he was hired (although I must admit, there is an element of truth in that on some levels), but he is just making bad calls and defending some pretty inept behaviour.

Regardless of what side of the political fence in racing you come from, the safety team SNAFU at Texas, the bad call in Edmonton and other indications are that this guy has a turtle syndrome. He makes a bad call, and retreats to his shell, and he wont defend his actions. He insists it is his way, or the highway, even if all logic and reason in the rest of the world says he is wrong.

I don't want a steward to rule by popular opinion, but when he makes a decision, he has to decide how much ground he has to stand on and he also has to run a series that works. The fact is, Brian is making bad calls, and running a series that has flaws and he wont address them...and that along is a sign of bad leadership and it is time to make a change.

Vendetta? No...he has had this job 2 years post unification....and in the last 2 years he has proved he isn't up to the job...

[garyshell]

I do?

In a word, yes.


We all know what is going on with Barnhart. The drumbeat to get rid of the guy has started, primarily, because he was a IRL guy. Miller has been beating the drum for years and now many of the CART people, who now call themselves Indy Car fans again, are following along.

Read Miller's latest rant. He wants to get rid of EVERYONE who Tony George hired. He even names the people who need to go.

Why? Because they worked in the IRL before the great "You-Ni-Fi-Ca-Shun" happened?

Maybe Barnhart does suck. Maybe he does need to go. But this is more a vandetta by a lot of disgruntled former CART fanatics, who think everything about the old IRL was bad. This just in......it wasn't. ;)

Case in point, you just did it again. This just in... the war is OVER. Not everyone who sees a fault with the current situation is a disgruntled CART fan. You are flat out WRONG.

Gary

[penske15]

nah!! i'm done. i've been watching and attendind races for 30 years. i cannot take this **** anymore. this isn't racing. it's the most absurd call since binford handed villenueve the 500 in 95. these ****ing clowns wouldn't know competition if it bit em in the ass!! i have my memories of a day and age when my sport wasn't incompetant and i guess that will just have to do. i loved posting with you guys....sorry it didn't last longer.

[harvick#1]

He would not call on Danica if position as Helio. What a garbage. They should be able to race as they want not by some fiction lines and fixed outcome. Pure garbage nothing more.

:laugh: yeah texas proved that, she drove TK into the inside wall on the back stretch and that was not considered blocking :rolleyes: