View Full Version : Citroen retain Loeb and Ogier
MrMetro
19th July 2010, 19:50
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85387
Allyc85
19th July 2010, 20:22
Bugger lol.
I guess that makes Petter in a Ford look likely for 2011 then. As autosport says, Seb Loeb and Ogier are at Citroen, plus they want Sordo but its not finalised, and the hints are that Kimi stays one more year in a Citroen then the three DS3's are occupied.
Ford on the other hand need something / someone new. Petter has beaten both BP Ford drivers regularly this year, in results and stage times. As Malcolm always said both MH & JML stay in the line-up next year, who else will Ford get now that Ogier has turned them down, Sordo allegedly staying at Citroen as well. Maybe PG gets one extra seat but who else? Petter to return almost 10 years anniversary of the departure immediately after Finland 2000?
Tomi
19th July 2010, 21:08
I guess that makes Petter in a Ford look likely for 2011 then. As autosport says, Seb Loeb and Ogier are at Citroen, plus they want Sordo but its not finalised, and the hints are that Kimi stays one more year in a Citroen then the three DS3's are occupied.
Ford on the other hand need something / someone new. Petter has beaten both BP Ford drivers regularly this year, in results and stage times. As Malcolm always said both MH & JML stay in the line-up next year, who else will Ford get now that Ogier has turned them down, Sordo allegedly staying at Citroen as well. Maybe PG gets one extra seat but who else? Petter to return almost 10 years anniversary of the departure immediately after Finland 2000?
Sorry, but i dont think it will happen, PG maybe, but Petter no way, except if he pay his own ride, its no point for any team to invest in him anymore.
N.O.T
19th July 2010, 21:19
I guess that makes Petter in a Ford look likely for 2011 then. As autosport says, Seb Loeb and Ogier are at Citroen, plus they want Sordo but its not finalised, and the hints are that Kimi stays one more year in a Citroen then the three DS3's are occupied.
Ford on the other hand need something / someone new. Petter has beaten both BP Ford drivers regularly this year, in results and stage times. As Malcolm always said both MH & JML stay in the line-up next year, who else will Ford get now that Ogier has turned them down, Sordo allegedly staying at Citroen as well. Maybe PG gets one extra seat but who else? Petter to return almost 10 years anniversary of the departure immediately after Finland 2000?
you need vacation...
you need vacation...
Greece?
ste898
19th July 2010, 21:25
Wel if Ford keep hirvsow then they can forget the championships next year as well......
they need a proper driver in the team as they have never filled the gap left by Gronholm
N.O.T
19th July 2010, 21:31
Greece?
sure...but no feeding of the indigenous humanoids allowed...no matter how they beg.
Tomi
19th July 2010, 21:34
sure...but no feeding of the indigenous humanoids allowed...no matter how they beg.
My friend was in greece a few weeks ago in a somekind of HD meeting, he did not see any beggars.
sure...but no feeding of the indigenous humanoids allowed...no matter how they beg.
Ok - I am off to Finland soon, that wont feel like a vacation though...........
Tomi
19th July 2010, 21:40
Ok - I am off to Finland soon, that wont feel like a vacation though...........
Lol, true, its more like a living hell :)
Best rally in the championship, all the other rounds are just filling space to make a championship!!
N.O.T
19th July 2010, 21:45
My friend was in greece a few weeks ago in a somekind of HD meeting, he did not see any beggars.
if he was in pigdog city of athens they usually keep foreigners away from the city centre and towards the suburbs so its normal he wasn't attacked for his breadcrums.
Josti
19th July 2010, 21:52
Ogier to Ford would have been a nice shift in the usual order these days, but I think he made the best choise. Three-year contract over Loeb's one-year extra deal spells out the future pretty much I think. But Loeb is obviously very important for the DS3's development.
What happens to Sordo, I'm not sure, parttime 3rd driver or the Junior team, in any case it's pretty hopeless for the Spaniard.
N.O.T
19th July 2010, 22:08
What happens to Sordo, I'm not sure, parttime 3rd driver or the Junior team, in any case it's pretty hopeless for the Spaniard.
he is in the age of ogier and he is still the man to beat on tarmac after Loeb so i guess he has a place in any team...i guess the new deal will demand a few extra euros from his sponsors to cover the full program but i cannot see him and i don't think he will fade.
kakus
19th July 2010, 22:31
If Ogier finish before Ford drivers there will be no problem for Citroen points
muscrae
19th July 2010, 23:06
I wonder about Malcolm's strategy... I doubt that he'll persist on Hirvonen and especially Latvala for the next season...
I wonder about Malcolm's strategy... I doubt that he'll persist on Hirvonen and especially Latvala for the next season...
Well who else is there? Marcus retired, Malcolm took the paydriver option, whilst Citroen developed new talent in Ogier.
Petter, PG, Duval, Atko, some new young kid we haven't heard of yet?
There isn't much out there that can challenge the Citroen line up. As Loeb said if Ford continue to be humiliated like Bulgaria how long will they hang around for?
I reckon Malcolm must be gutted when he found out that Ogier wouldn't be driving for his team.
N.O.T
19th July 2010, 23:54
The only choice for Malcom is to keep latvala/hirvonen in the official team and use the stobart team to actually develop new drivers (like citroen did with junior) rather than serve his useless son and waste them like that, PG is a good start.
Rallyper
20th July 2010, 00:19
The only choice for Malcom is to keep latvala/hirvonen in the official team and use the stobart team to actually develop new drivers (like citroen did with junior) rather than serve his useless son and waste them like that, PG is a good start.
Again I agree. Stobart will have PG and why not Meeke. MW has to do something and this could be his winning solution combinded with a reliable and fast new car.
Henning has his own sponsors and will for sure be the third man in Stobart/Ford team.
If not Meeke I think MW has to reconsider Petter.
In any case - which capacity do they have making Fiesta WRC cars for next years first round?
FAlonso
20th July 2010, 02:49
I think, at this point, that Meeke should be the obvious choice. A talented driver, a great all-rounder with previous WRC experience, Citroen tester and someone who has been fighting, for the past 2 years, at the top in a very competitive series like the IRC.
If P-G could also be in the mix then all the better. And lets see what Duval will be able to do on tarmac. Could still be a bet for the asphalt rounds in 2011.
Ford can´t afford to keep on battling a combination of Loeb-Ogier-Sordo-Petter-Raikkonen with Mikko-JM-Wilson-Henning.
Mikko-JM-Meeke-PG-Duval would be way stronger (if feasible).
janvanvurpa
20th July 2010, 02:53
I wonder about Malcolm's strategy... I doubt that he'll persist on Hirvonen and especially Latvala for the next season...
maybe you didn't hear...
There's a 5 year Plan for Wilson's son Wilsson. Or Viilsomäki...
Rallyper
20th July 2010, 03:45
maybe you didn't hear...
There's a 5 year Plan for Wilson's son Wilsson. Or Viilsomäki...
It would be very, very surprising if MW will continue support his son in the WRC. I guess Mathew have had his days and will be testdriver in the future. At most driving in the IRC and maybe some WRC events when they have enough cars.
He has to overhand his seat to PG or Meeke.
Everything else would be stupid and wreckless done by Malcolm.
Red bull
20th July 2010, 08:06
It would be very, very surprising if MW will continue support his son in the WRC. I guess Mathew have had his days and will be testdriver in the future. At most driving in the IRC and maybe some WRC events when they have enough cars.
He has to overhand his seat to PG or Meeke.
Everything else would be stupid and wreckless done by Malcolm.
mathew wilson has never been fords no1/no2 driver,problem is the two current lead drivers who are not perfoming according to expectations,also meek driving a storbart car wont change anything on the leader board as at the moment hes also struggling in the irc.if both hirvonen and latvala are not competitive at least one of them should be moved to stobart and make way for another tested wrc driver as citroen has done to sordo. :s mokin:
I am evil Homer
20th July 2010, 10:18
Meeke should be in WRC next year with his IRC experience and success. Shame he keeps chucking it off the road this year but speed wise on every surface he is as good as what Ford has now.
Matthew Wilson wil continue rallying and burning the money that could be spent in any other driver with skills. His dad is the boss and (not directly) is Ford who pays the bill.
The most surprising is Malcolm try to steal Ogier to Citroen, after the french people invest a lot of money on Ogier's development.
But ok, this is the WRC of the 21st century :D
Now with Loeb / Ogier, the things could be even worst.
ShiftingGears
20th July 2010, 10:37
Ford could try getting Sordo for tarmac events.
Meeke should be in WRC next year with his IRC experience and success. Shame he keeps chucking it off the road this year but speed wise on every surface he is as good as what Ford has now.
Meeke would be much better than Wilson no doubt but I don't get the significance of people discussing Stobart/Citroen Juniors like they actually matter. I guess Stobart is just a money making thing for Wilson, having PG or Meeke or whoever in a Stobart won't make much of a difference to Ford as a manufacturer unless the manufacturer points scoring rules are changed to something similar to what they have in IRC.
Is something like that on the horizon, or at least a return to 3 car teams with top 2 scoring?
Doon
20th July 2010, 12:37
I can't see why everyone persists in blaming the Ford drivers, Mikko and JML can be really quick on thier day even in a car that is far from the pace of the Citroens. Gronholm said in Sweden that the 2009 car had developed very little from his 2007 car, Petter also said the Ford was slow when choosing his C4, and Aava said the C4 was much quicker. On VS from the Bulgaria coverage, it showed a Ford and Citroen coming out of a series of corner at the same speed and the Citroen was going 9km/h faster within 300m....says it all.
Having considered that Ford have a smaller budget than Citroen, why would they continue to throw money at a car that is soon to be out of use when as far back as 2008 they knew a new format and car was going to be required by 2011. We just have to hope that the time Ford have spent developing the Fiesta has been worth it. I believe they are going the right way about it, by running the equivalent S2000 car for a whole year, with the free feedback from the drivers. Fingers crossed!
mdesign
20th July 2010, 12:52
Matthew Wilson wil continue rallying and burning the money that could be spent in any other driver with skills. His dad is the boss and (not directly) is Ford who pays the bill.
The most surprising is Malcolm try to steal Ogier to Citroen, after the french people invest a lot of money on Ogier's development.
But ok, this is the WRC of the 21st century :D
Now with Loeb / Ogier, the things could be even worst.
That's not Malcom's problem if the french invested on Ogier. Ford invested on drivers like Markko, Petter, Duval and others that end up on other teams after growing on ford.
Ogier did the best choice for him, but sadly not the bet for the championship (not his fault that ford is not good enough for citroen)
Red bull
20th July 2010, 16:26
[quote="mdesign"]That's not Malcom's problem if the french invested on Ogier. Ford invested on drivers like Markko, Petter, Duval and others that end up on other teams after growing on ford.
Ogier did the best choice for him, but sadly not the bet for the championship (not his fault that ford is not good enough for citroen)[/quote.Very true good for him and worse for wrc as 2011 will be another citroen dominant year.problem is malcom insisting on retaining his two snails in the first team which puts off portential drivers willing to join ford, ogier being one of them maybe solberg too.No good driver will accept being a third driver where only two cars score points. :( :mad:
serial jeff
20th July 2010, 18:36
Sorry, but i dont think it will happen, PG maybe, but Petter no way, except if he pay his own ride, its no point for any team to invest in him anymore.
Ford wouldn't need to 'invest' in Petter... that's why he'd be an excellent choice. He's already fast, and he could step into the Fiesta and start winning immediately whilst Ford invests in young drivers to take over in the future.
On VS from the Bulgaria coverage, it showed a Ford and Citroen coming out of a series of corner at the same speed and the Citroen was going 9km/h faster within 300m....says it all.
Indeed, the C4 by all evidence is noticeably better than the Focus. If Ford gets a good engine in the Fiesta, it'll be an excellent car.
pavlos_a
20th July 2010, 23:29
Meeke should be in WRC next year with his IRC experience and success. Shame he keeps chucking it off the road this year but speed wise on every surface he is as good as what Ford has now.
Martin is an excellent choice, faster than the ford drivers in tarmac and a very good test-development driver. He should be the second driver next to mikko
Halvis
20th July 2010, 23:48
Martin is an excellent choice, faster than the ford drivers in tarmac and a very good test-development driver. He should be the second driver next to mikko
I doubt that Markko ever will come back to WRC - and Mikko is just too slow, he will never be a serious threat to the fastest driver at any given time. It seems that he just don't have the balls to get that extra speed needed. However, as a number two driver, Mikko is perfect, as he collects points consistently.
I think this is MWs chance to get a serious contender for the title (if the Fiesta is as good as the C3), namely Petter Solberg. I don't think Petter will have to cost him much either, a competetive car without having to pay to drive will probably be enough to get Petter.
N.O.T
20th July 2010, 23:54
Martin is away far too long... he would be nowhere close the top guys...winning home village events is one thing and be in contention with the top is different.
As for solberg i doubt in same equipment he can be as fast as latvala and maybe hirvonen. Plus he is in the decline of his career maybe he has 1 more competitive year.
As for solberg i doubt in same equipment he can be as fast as latvala and maybe hirvonen. Plus he is in the decline of his career maybe he has 1 more competitive year.
LOL 1 year? No way.. He's over the top a long time ago...
Are you plain stupid? Or ? Did'nt you pay attension this year what he is doing in a private car/team?
N.O.T
21st July 2010, 00:39
he is doing a very good year indeed, far better than i expected but....he is still lacks winning pace when on equal terms with the other citroen guys official or private...and ford needs winners they have the drivers to capture the rest of the podium places...thats why they offered Ogier a contract and not Sordo or Solberg.
Rallyper
21st July 2010, 00:55
LOL 1 year? No way.. He's over the top a long time ago...
Are you plain stupid? Or ? Did'nt you pay attension this year what he is doing in a private car/team?
No one is stupid. Only stupid comments. :mad:
I think N.O.T has a point here. Petter is far away from being slow. He´s just showed us this year so far.
He could well be first driver at Ford as well as PG or Markko M.
he is doing a very good year indeed, far better than i expected but....he is still lacks winning pace when on equal terms with the other citroen guys official or private...and ford needs winners they have the drivers to capture the rest of the podium places...thats why they offered Ogier a contract and not Sordo or Solberg.
I think not. Solberg has a lot of sponsors. Why would they take him in a m1 team, when Ogier, Sordo, Latvala, Hirvonen and even Loeb can't raise that budget? It's economics...
Tomi
21st July 2010, 07:02
Why would they take him in a m1 team, when Ogier, Sordo, Latvala, Hirvonen and even Loeb can't raise that budget? It's economics...
You mean they dont have to raise a budget, because they are works drivers.
he is doing a very good year indeed, far better than i expected but....he is still lacks winning pace when on equal terms with the other citroen guys official or private...and ford needs winners they have the drivers to capture the rest of the podium places...thats why they offered Ogier a contract and not Sordo or Solberg.
Do you really think he has same spec car as LOEB ??? I seriously doubt that.
I HAVE 2 QUESTION FOR THE FINNS:
Is LAUKKA stage run this year ?
If answer is yes, please supply us with data from VM magazine, radar gun speeds on the long straight at end of that stage just before tight left turn.
I want to know how private car top speeds compare to factory. Especially P SOLBERG - LOEB
This is a place where the straight is so long that all cars get to maximum RPM.... Assuming SOLBERG and LOEB have same final gear, the speed should be same if NOT is right :dozey:
thanks guys :D
Ah, and also check for WILSON/ H SOLBERG comparison. I think Wilson's should be quicker.
N.O.T
21st July 2010, 12:52
as ogier demonstrated this year the car spec doesn't play a huge role when skill is involved
as ogier demonstrated this year the car spec doesn't play a huge role when skill is involved
ok, will be interesting to see the Ogier speed as well then... I tell you for me all bets are open :cool:
I predict Loeb fastest top speed citroen around 209 km/h with ogier very close if not similar and petter around 205km/h maybe even as low as 202km/h :s mokin:
N.O.T
21st July 2010, 13:48
sordo 216 km/hr in bulgaria and Loebs 201 then shows sordo has the best car i guess....
Rallyper
21st July 2010, 13:51
Laukka is not gonna be run this year. But I am sure there will be lot of other places to measure speed anyway.
vkangas
21st July 2010, 14:05
Speed measurement in rally conditions is irrelevant anyways. You can't judge car overall performance by measuring it's speed on straight. On rally Finland's longest straights every car is able to get to max speed that is limited by rev limiter and gear/final ratios. Both manufacturers could make a gearbox that would allow 230+ km/h in Ouninpohja for example, but that would only make the car slower on the full rally distance.
Grönholm full throttle for 46 seconds: :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04P2CWRI_Qs
johunn
21st July 2010, 14:09
Speed gets measured at the end of the stage... to my knowledge the guy that gets the fastest time generally is the fastest driver or not?
ShiftingGears
21st July 2010, 16:31
sordo 216 km/hr in bulgaria and Loebs 201 then shows sordo has the best car i guess....
Well put.
WRC desperately needs someone to consistently match Loeb, hopefully Ogier develops into that driver.
bretddog
21st July 2010, 18:39
Petter with the Xsara was faster than Loeb by >10kph on the long straight in Rally Norway 2009. Didn't help him much. Loeb's comment was something like: My car isn't set up for top speed, but more to be fast out of the corner..
If the straight is long enough gr.N cars can go faster.. Top speed is no way to see what car is the quickest..
Gard
22nd July 2010, 09:21
as ogier demonstrated this year the car spec doesn't play a huge role when skill is involved
? Ogier is running with the best Citroen have in relation to the homologation. PSWRT do not, since Citroen asked for some insane prices to get the latest. Ogier also have the full benefit of the best data for his car. But the differences isn't to big. I'm actually surpriced Citroen has "given" PSWRT as good car as they have.
? Ogier is running with the best Citroen have in relation to the homologation. PSWRT do not, since Citroen asked for some insane prices to get the latest. Ogier also have the full benefit of the best data for his car. But the differences isn't to big. I'm actually surpriced Citroen has "given" PSWRT as good car as they have.
agree this makes perfect sense to me too.
I believe Ogier as a better car than petter. In my opinion there is no way this new guy could be so fast with so little experience against Solberg. Lets see in Finland how close he is.
That's not Malcom's problem if the french invested on Ogier. Ford invested on drivers like Markko, Petter, Duval and others that end up on other teams after growing on ford.
Ogier did the best choice for him, but sadly not the bet for the championship (not his fault that ford is not good enough for citroen)
Don't compare 2010 with late 90's and the first years of 21st century. At that time we had more teams and more young drivers being supported by works teams.
Now we have two manufacturers. One invest in a new value, the other invest in a lost value. When the first shows the result of his investment, the seconde go there and try to catch the result. There's no law to avoid that, it's business, but some good sense and some etic is welcome.
But i agree that Ogier in a Ford shoud be good to the WRC. But Ford has exactly what he worked to...
Tom206wrc
25th July 2010, 19:19
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85387
What else(cf George Clooney) ???? :p :
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