German Grand Prix [Archive] - Motorsport Forums

Saint Devote

19th July 2010, 11:27

I remember the disdain that this circuit attracted when it replaced the Nordschleife back in 1977. It was not only one of those "stadiums" but also the place that claimed the life of the greatest driver ever, the generous and sublime Scottish driver Jim Clark. It was also where Patrick Depailler was killed in 1980.

But we got used to it and eventually looked forward to those magnificent HIGH SPEED processions with the f1 cars at full bore into the Ostkurve.

Today we have a different track with a Parabolica and while the Hockenheimring as we knew it with the Ostkurve is no more, the current track like Silverstone has retained its essential identification.

I think it will be an RB06 race to lose and surely the heightened tensions in the camp of Red Bull will be the focus of this weekend. Webber has to do it all again and Vettel has to show that he can do it without Daddy Warbucks protecting him.

Mclaren will be their usual quick selves and I am hoping that Jense will find that quircky set-up he requires and outqualifies Lewis.

Alonso has not yet shown us what the Ferrari can do. There have been problems since the new package was introduced at Valencia and could be the sirprise of the weekend along with Brittney.

Mercedes home track will want to make at least its best showing here and Rosberg at this stage is the only one that can do it.

Wouldnt it be great to see a first Nico victory - he can do it.

The last three races were won by Hamilton, Schumacher and Alonso.

If the Ferrari works well then an Alonso victory? It is certainly time for the Scuderia to show that they have not lost their edge.

Ithiink the surprise of the qeekend will be an Alonso or Rosberg victoru AND perhaps a Schumi podium - there would not be a dry eye in the house :D

ShiftingGears

19th July 2010, 11:50

Saint Devote

20th July 2010, 02:08

I never understood what the appeal in Hockenheim without the forest is. The stadium was always the Yin to the forest's Yang.

Have the crowds at Tilkenheim been comparable to the old Hockenheim, for those that watched before it was cut up?

The corwds were definitely down in 2008 when Lewis won but I think we could see a rise because Schumi is back - viewership in Germany has increased a whopping 50% this season.

I agree with you but they have trued to maintain its speed characteristics with that parabolica sweep.

I like Hockeheim better than the sad new Nurburgring layout.

If you read the July edition of Motorsport magazine, Andrew Marriot went on a homage tour in memory of Jim CLark and in order to FIND the actual place where the Scot crashed you get to see what is left of the the great sweep into the Ostkurve - made me feel sad. Ak well - regress and all that!!!

electron

20th July 2010, 11:36

it is hardly a buzz in Germany anymore.

for example the viewers used to be up in 10 Mio back in Schus heydays.
RTL cracked the 10 mio for the season opener but now is back at 5 mio where they where in the past few years.

Major newspapers are writing Schu down, if at all. Just today I read an article "another record - never was a racing icon crushed so fast"

I hear they sold some 60.000 tickets and if you saw how RTL was advertising the tickets... you where basically flushed away by these silly and cheep looking comercials trying to sell you the "mega event of teh century" I started to believe that they have issues getting the house full!

I miss the old Hockers!
Too many historic battles there in the woods... man, when I remember Rindt vs. Ickx back in 70 it sends shivers down my spine... what is left ot the track today does not deserve to carry on this name.

nonetheless I look forward to the race. racefan. can't help it.

Sleeper

20th July 2010, 14:21

I think your wrong on the charecteristics of the new Hockenheim St. D, its no longer the flat out blast that it once was and is now just another Tilkedrome, though it can produce better racing than most of his other tracks.

Saint Devote

21st July 2010, 01:36

Saint Devote

21st July 2010, 01:38

electron

21st July 2010, 07:00

I would personally punch the mouth of ANY journalist that wrote such a comment about Schumi.

Well, i am no journalist but you "sir" can feel invited to kiss my butt for such a stupid childish comment :)

Where did you get that information on tv viewing? The RISE in viewership is avaliable in F1 Racing.

as for the original article, which hits the feeling that I have (living in this country, watching this TV and reading these newspapers I may add)
http://www.welt.de/sport/formel1/article8508008/Der-Mythos-Michael-Schumacher-ist-entzaubert.html

so again, you can feel free to think what you may... come to Hockenheim to see for youself.
bubble... meet burst.

one more thing, a quote from Willi Weber: "it may be easier to find a 50 year old virgin than sponsors for F1 these days"

electron

21st July 2010, 09:01

the article actually is no Schu bashing, just to calrify that (which makes the premature comment even more childish to me) but an article about the effect Schus return had on German audience/publicity figures related to F1.
A short Buzz which has pretty much cooled down to not much anymore.

it is not about bashing because the Valencia race (Vettel wins) is specifically marked a s low in viewership (only about half the numbers of the season opener).

The German GP (to get back to topic) seems to have expected more from teh "Schu Buzz" which isn't around as expected and ad sales and audience suffer.
All there is to it.

Sonic

21st July 2010, 11:16

The new Hok is a bit dull but the racing has often been interesting and exciting. I can't see it being a Red Bull walk over as its a bit more of a point and squirt circuit not really giving the RBR anywhere to stretch its legs.

For the sake of the championship i 'd like a McLaren win as I expect the Bulls to be all but unbeatable on the aero tracks to come.

It would also be nice to see another strong performance from Williams who (against recent history) seem to be developing their car the most quickly of the chasing pack, and perhaps another Podium for Nico.

Saint Devote

21st July 2010, 11:49

Saint Devote

21st July 2010, 12:05

Well St.D welcome to the stance of European media. The German, British and Italian press are amongst the most savage in the world. They love you while you are successful but at the first sign of faliure, they'll lead you to the hangman. I've said this to you before when you claimed that the British press love everything Lewis Hamilton does, but kick Jenson when he is down. Its simply not the case and as you make claims about something you have no first hand experience of, you are likely to be surprised by such comments.

The German press are no different, and with there being even a selection of Schuey fans who are doubtful over the success of his return, the press will always take the most negative stance until luck goes in his favour.

I know you are fond of the idea of a sport where drivers punch other drivers for ontrack disputes and journalists being thumped for having doubts, but F1 is a civilised sport. Like it or not. I personally respect the achievements of MS, but I don't think he is the greatest driver the sport has ever seen. Its my opinion, and we're all entitled to one whether its different or not. :)

F1 used to be a sport where a good whack on the jaw would settle things - it works well in American racing. Problem these days in f1 is that perhaps just too many drivers dont want to mess their delicate manicures.

Senna was definitely someone that understood it could clear the air.

Definitely the journalists deserve knuckle sandwiches.

On that score, give me American racing any day.

ShiftingGears

21st July 2010, 12:09

Bridgestone to bring hard and super-soft tyres to the grand prix, so if strategy is going to decide this one, it's not going to be an RBR driver on the top step.

Retro Formula 1

21st July 2010, 12:59

On that score, give me American racing any day.

You can have it. Free, gratis, it's yours. Just don't let the door hit your ass on the way out :D

Sleeper

21st July 2010, 13:08

F1 used to be a sport where a good whack on the jaw would settle things - it works well in American racing. Problem these days in f1 is that perhaps just too many drivers dont want to mess their delicate manicures.

Senna was definitely someone that understood it could clear the air.

Definitely the journalists deserve knuckle sandwiches.

On that score, give me American racing any day.
The number of punch ups in F1's history can be counted off on little more than 1 hand.

How are you not banned yet?

keysersoze

21st July 2010, 17:23

The Hockenheim of the 80s and 90s--4 straightaways separated by three chicances, plus a mickey mouse stadium section--was boring in spite of the high speeds.

The new Hockenheim has produced several passing opportunities and it is, IMO, a massive improvement. Cars can go side-by-side through turns, and drivers can pull the inside-out move. Great stuff. Looking forward to it.

Saint Devote

22nd July 2010, 01:00

The number of punch ups in F1's history can be counted off on little more than 1 hand.

How are you not banned yet?

The fisticuffs in f1 were by far never reported and during the 1960's for example there was no despicable paparazzi chasing drivers.

And in more recent times there are pitcrew by the dozen that prevents anything happening and of course the FIA .........

And how many times did James Hunt swing his fists including against marshalls?

Why on earth would you want me banned banned? All I am doing is telling the truth about what happens in environments such as racing.

Saint Devote

22nd July 2010, 01:10

Well, i am no journalist but you "sir" can feel invited to kiss my butt for such a stupid childish comment :)

as for the original article, which hits the feeling that I have (living in this country, watching this TV and reading these newspapers I may add)
http://www.welt.de/sport/formel1/article8508008/Der-Mythos-Michael-Schumacher-ist-entzaubert.html

so again, you can feel free to think what you may... come to Hockenheim to see for youself.
bubble... meet burst.

one more thing, a quote from Willi Weber: "it may be easier to find a 50 year old virgin than sponsors for F1 these days"

Obviously Weber is wrong as can be SEEN and the proof for f1 in Germany will be the grand prix this weekend.

The people who work for the media can write whatever they want to, it does not mean it is correct.

Bernie is happy as are Merecedes that Schumi is racing and they are the ones thats see it in hard currency.

Saint Devote

22nd July 2010, 01:20

Bridgestone to bring hard and super-soft tyres to the grand prix, so if strategy is going to decide this one, it's not going to be an RBR driver on the top step.

If it rains then odds are it will be Mclaren drivers on the podium!

This tawdry affair is going to make Webber versus Vettel even more heightened.

Qualifying, with Webber and Vettel eyeing each other from across the garage just ought not to be missed. The needle is OUT!

Ari

22nd July 2010, 03:00

The Hockenheim of the 80s and 90s--4 straightaways

straightaways???

Did I click the wrong button? How did I end up on the Nascar forum?

Dave B

22nd July 2010, 13:43

Raining at the track at the moment, and the forecast is for it to continue:

Emphasis: Wet running expected at times, Fri-Sat. Wettest conditions will be Thursday PM. Showers likely Friday; potential for some patchy rain Saturday to give wet track at times. The race is expected to be dry or largely so with a small chance of afternoon showers.

More detail: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/weather/ianfergusson/2010/07/formula-one-weather-forecast-g.shtml

wedge

22nd July 2010, 14:23

Looks like it will be similar to Canada - who can best manage the graining on race day.

Saint Devote

23rd July 2010, 01:15

straightaways???

Did I click the wrong button? How did I end up on the Nascar forum?

:eek: :D
That sort of terminology DOES send shivers down one's neck doesn't it?!

Saint Devote

23rd July 2010, 01:17

Hamilton to win for me... :)

But you always state that.

Saint Devote

23rd July 2010, 01:21

If Ferrari races with the updates introduced at Valencia "S" and Alonso is permitted to race without being interfered with as he has been by the stewards - the penality at Silverstone was a disgrace because Kubica did run him off the track - then if it is wet, do not count out the brilliant Spaniard for the win.

Ferrari is due - and it will be great for motor racing. Ferrari is still Ferrari after all.

harsha

23rd July 2010, 08:08

no offense St.D , but has anyone ever told you how idiotic some of your posts really are

Dave B

23rd July 2010, 08:35

<snigger>

Anyway, Friday morning and rain of "biblical proportions" according to Lotus. First Practice might be a snoozefest if not many people choose to run.

Rain, rain, rain - teams' forecasts have changed again! Set for the day with threat of thunderstorms. Race still meant to be dry

Morning... It's absolutely bucketing down here in Hockenheim.. P1 is going to be rather interesting! :-)

It's Friday and the rain is coming down in biblical proportions.... Going to be an interesting day on track (@ Lotus Racing Motorhome)

Dave B

23rd July 2010, 09:13

And we're off. Lots of water but Lotus and Toro Rosso out on track so far.

Ari

23rd July 2010, 09:27

Cats and dogs ladies and gentlemen.... cats and dogs!

Dave B

23rd July 2010, 09:47

Cars skidding off all over the place now. Nobody's sustained any damage, but I reckon there's been a few clenched bums. At least there's plenty of running.

Valve Bounce

23rd July 2010, 10:01

no offense St.D , but has anyone ever told you how idiotic some of your posts really are

I tried that but came near to being banned - so I decided to let the guy make a fool of himslelf, all by himself. :p :

Valve Bounce

23rd July 2010, 10:02

Cars skidding off all over the place now. Nobody's sustained any damage, but I reckon there's been a few clenched bums. At least there's plenty of running.

Since we don't have any of this televised, any comments from you about what is happening is greatly appreciated. :up:

Retro Formula 1

23rd July 2010, 10:04

Has Hamilton got a problem or just not wanting to get wet?

Retro Formula 1

23rd July 2010, 10:08

Apparently Webber is out on Inters because Vettel has been given all the wets :laugh:

Dave B

23rd July 2010, 10:10

Since we don't have any of this televised, any comments from you about what is happening is greatly appreciated. :up:
Okey dokey.

Dry line starting to appear now, but still plenty of spray. Times starting to drop as drivers switch from full wets to inters, Webber just pops up to stop of sheet; Rosberg, Sutil, Alonso starting laps on inters.

Have a look at the Twitter list in my sig, it's quite handy for keeping up if you're not near a TV :)

Dave B

23rd July 2010, 10:13

Vettel just set fastest S1 time but then found standing water in S2. He's still gone quickest, but it just shows how tricky and variable the conditions are.

Harmless off for de la Rosa, who is currently 8th.

Retro Formula 1

23rd July 2010, 10:17

Sutil looking good again. I think this boy needs a crack in a better car (although the FI isn't too sloppy).

Would make a great pairing with young Nico but that seat looks like being wasted for 2011 :(

Dave B

23rd July 2010, 10:18

Aye, Sultil does like the wet. Yet another off for Massa, he's tripped through the gravel trap but really doesn't seem happy in these conditions. Even Alonso had to take to the escape road.

WHOA Big off for Hamilton, front wing totalled in the tyre wall. He's hit three corners of the car, it's a mess. Lewis is fine, but that's a big setback for his weekend.

Turn three. He lost the back of the car on the wet, the rear of the car hit the barrier then spun round. Zero chance of getting the car out for the remaining 20 mins of this session, and a question mark over spare parts for McLaren's new exhaust package.

Retro Formula 1

23rd July 2010, 10:20

Big off for Lewis.

That's going to take a bit of fixing.

Just took a bit too much curb.

Best see if Red Bull have a spare front wing.

Retro Formula 1

23rd July 2010, 10:25

Zero chance of getting the car out for the remaining 20 mins of this session, and a question mark over spare parts for McLaren's new exhaust package.

Good point. Lets hope they have a spare manifold.

Yet another off for Massa. He really is struggleing but fortunatly he was so slow, he didn't get getting into trouble.

Dave B

23rd July 2010, 10:26

Yet another off for Massa, at the final turn. No harm done, plenty of run off there.

Dave B

23rd July 2010, 10:30

Senna's beached in the gravel by the final corner, yellow flags out and with 11 mins left I wouldn't be surprised if they go red.

It was basically a repeat of Massa's spin except he went a lot further and the runoff didn't save him.

Dave B

23rd July 2010, 10:34

Senna's Hispania swiftly cleared and we're green again, as Schumacher watches his team mate go fastest, quickly deposed by Massa.

Glock's just executed a perfect 360 in his Virgin and carried on shaken but not stirred.

Webber's in the garage with slicks on his car :eek: but the track looks far too damp to risk it.

Dave B

23rd July 2010, 10:39

Sutil goes half a second quicker than Massa, Vettel's shaping up for an even quicker lap as the session enters its last three minutes and the track dries.

Sutil improves; Trulli interferes with Vettel's lap so the German comes into the pits.

Alguesuari comes out on slicks and almost immediately slides off the track.

Schuey is back out on full wets.

One report is that a storm is due in around an hour - second practice could be interesting.

Holy crap on a stick. Di Grassi up to 15th in the Virgin. What a mega lap. Sandwiched by two world champs in Hamilton and Alonso.

Dave B

23rd July 2010, 10:45

Don't read too much into the finishing order as the conditions improved so much in the final few moments and not everybody set a lap.

Sutil quickest, Massa 1.149 behind, then But Bar Pet Ros Beu Hul Liu Dlr Vet Glo Kub Web Tru Alg Ham Dig Alo Kob Fau Sen Msc Yam

Mark

23rd July 2010, 10:47

But Bar Pet Ros Beu Hul Liu Dlr Vet Glo Kub Web Tru Alg Ham Dig Alo Kob Fau Sen Msc Yam

I've never heard of him. Is Mr. But Yam a new driver?

Dave B

23rd July 2010, 10:48

Yup, and that's one hell of a middle name :p

Dave B

23rd July 2010, 10:51

First Practice times:

Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1. Sutil Force India-Mercedes 1:25.701 20
2. Massa Ferrari 1:26.850 + 1.149 27
3. Button McLaren-Mercedes 1:26.936 + 1.235 16
4. Barrichello Williams-Cosworth 1:26.947 + 1.246 21
5. Petrov Renault 1:26.948 + 1.247 21
6. Rosberg Mercedes 1:27.448 + 1.747 20
7. Buemi Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:28.114 + 2.413 31
8. Hulkenberg Williams-Cosworth 1:28.193 + 2.492 24
9. Liuzzi Force India-Mercedes 1:28.300 + 2.599 19
10. de la Rosa Sauber-Ferrari 1:28.486 + 2.785 23
11. Vettel Red Bull-Renault 1:28.735 + 3.034 21
12. Glock Virgin-Cosworth 1:28.735 + 3.034 21
13. Kubica Renault 1:28.903 + 3.202 20
14. Webber Red Bull-Renault 1:29.048 + 3.347 13
15. Trulli Lotus-Cosworth 1:29.280 + 3.579 17
16. Alguersuari Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:29.366 + 3.665 34
17. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1:29.429 + 3.728 8
18. di Grassi Virgin-Cosworth 1:29.500 + 3.799 19
19. Alonso Ferrari 1:29.684 + 3.983 15
20. Kobayashi Sauber-Ferrari 1:29.690 + 3.989 17
21. Fauzy Lotus-Cosworth 1:30.938 + 5.237 27
22. Senna HRT-Cosworth 1:31.720 + 6.019 23
23. Schumacher Mercedes 1:32.450 + 6.749 13
24. Yamamoto HRT-Cosworth 1:32.791 + 7.090 26

Retro Formula 1

23rd July 2010, 10:53

Cant see Lewis being out for 2nd practice.

ShiftingGears

23rd July 2010, 10:53

Apparently Webber is out on Inters because Vettel has been given all the wets :laugh:

LOL really?

Dave B

23rd July 2010, 10:57

Cant see Lewis being out for 2nd practice.
You're probably right, although depending on how much damage there is he may be able to get some running in towards the end of the session.

SGWilko

23rd July 2010, 11:27

Yup, and that's one hell of a middle name :p

Its a stoopid name cos it is one of Katie Price's kids...

Apparently Bob was too easy as a name. ;)

SGWilko

23rd July 2010, 11:27

LOL really?

Errrrrr.......

.....no.

Dave B

23rd July 2010, 11:34

Jonathan Noble from Autosport is saying that ten storms are heading towards the track :eek:

My weather radar guru says there are only 10 storms on their way to Hockenheim right now. Get those umbrellas ready!

Tazio

23rd July 2010, 11:58

You're probably right, although depending on how much damage there is he may be able to get some running in towards the end of the session. Substancial damage to the MP4/25.
It will be interesting to see if they can get The Boss back on the track for FP2

http://www.formula1.com/wi/597x478/sutton/2010/d10ger424.jpg

http://www.formula1.com/wi/597x478/sutton/2010/d10ger431.jpg

http://www.formula1.com/wi/597x478/sutton/2010/d10ger430.jpg

http://www.formula1.com/wi/597x478/sutton/2010/d10ger433.jpg

Retro Formula 1

23rd July 2010, 12:12

Dave B

23rd July 2010, 13:08

It's dry for the start of FP2, conflicting weather reports for later with some suggesting storms.

McLaren frantically working on Hamilton's car, but it'll be a while yet before it turns a wheel under its own power.

Kobyashi is first out, carefully navigating the not insubstantial puddles on the track, but there's a definate and wide dry line - we've also had a GP2 practice session which helped clear some water.

BBC reporting that Vettel's had a scheduled engine change between sessions.

Dave B

23rd July 2010, 13:25

Almost everybody's got at least one lap under their belts, the exceptions being Hamilton and Vettel, plus Rosberg.

There's quite a bit of activity as teams seek to maximise their running on dry tyres before the forecast rain. A few wobbles from the likes of Petrov, but no real drama so far. De la Rosa, Liuzzi and Sutil lead the times so far.

Dave B

23rd July 2010, 13:35

Vettel's now completed an installation lap, meaning the only person who hasn't yet been out is Hamilton - currently answering questions on McLaren's website while the team work on his car.

Webber had a minor and harmless off, other than that it's completely drama free. Alonso leading Massa then MSC BUT SUT HUL and changing all the time. There's still a little spray but the track is largely dry; although rain is apparently getting closer.

Rosberg is recovering to the pits with his front wing very loose after striking a marker cone.

Holly Samos in the pitlane is reporting that rain is starting to fall.

Tazio

23rd July 2010, 13:39

Massa abandoned a very fast lap. Sand-bagging, or just low on fuel?

Dave B

23rd July 2010, 13:40

Raining enough to catch drivers out, Petrov and Sutil have had little moments. A shot of the radar has shown a massive band of rain to the south of the track - will it move north?

The "slippery surface" flag is now being shown, although Kovalainen and Webber both had squeaky bum moments so may not be taking much notice!

Dave B

23rd July 2010, 13:47

Vettel's gone off at turn 12 and skated over the gravel, he's back out on track but the car will need some gravel clearing out of the sidepods and brake ducts.

McLaren are reporting that Hamilton's car is nearing completion; Kubica and others debating whether to run now or hope the conditions improve.

Tazio

23rd July 2010, 13:50

Big off for Vettel! He's angling for another of Choppers wings? :s ailor:

Tazio

23rd July 2010, 13:53

Mark is really flying!

I am evil Homer

23rd July 2010, 13:54

Ha ha yep Vettel wants to damage his car to the get the super lighweight Webber chassis I think!

Dave B

23rd July 2010, 13:54

Schumacher slipstreaming di Grassi's Virgin but then missed his braking point on the wet line. Good reactions from the Brazillian avoided a collision.

Webber fastest ahead of ALO and HUL, and the rain is getting no worse. So far...

Dave B

23rd July 2010, 14:02

ALO had a green S1, purple S2 then a huge wobble in S3 ruining his lap. He's currently P2 behind WEB but ahead of MAS.

The rain now seems to have completely stopped, track's almost entirely dry although there are a couple of puddles.

Something just flew of Kubica's car, looked like a wheel nut but he's still running. ALO goes quickest as track improves.

McLaren reporting "Lewis's car gradually taking shape"

Tazio

23rd July 2010, 14:04

Ferrari seem to have some speed at this track.
It will be interesting to see how they screw up this weekend! :arrowed: :s mokin:

Retro Formula 1

23rd July 2010, 14:07

Ferrari seem to have some speed at this track.
It will be interesting to see how they screw up this weekend! :arrowed: :s mokin:

Ferrari look Mighty!

Will be interesting in Qualifying but looks like McLaren will be the 3rd best car out there this weekend. Time for the drivers to earn their money.

Dave B

23rd July 2010, 14:11

VET improves to P2, just 0.029 behind ALO. Looks like it was something from the nose of Kubica, do your own punchline.

ROS goes a hundredth quicker than MSC. Hamilton helmeted up and almost ready to go. Where's this rain got to?

Dave B

23rd July 2010, 14:25

MSC in the gravel but rejoins... then off... then on. So sad to see a living legend struggle so much. No sign of HAM yet with 17 mins to go.

As I type that, coverage cuts to Lewis sitting in his car ready to go out. Mountain to climb to get any meaningful data in 14 mins.

Tazio

23rd July 2010, 14:33

Judging by the program Ferrari are running I suspect they are working on their version of Q-mapping!

http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2010/07/10/red-bull-map-q-the-secret-to-the-teams-q3-pace/

And with some success :s ailor:

CNR

23rd July 2010, 14:34

http://www.whtimes.co.uk/sport/formula-1/f1_hamilton_s_car_rebuilt_for_second_german_grand_ prix_practice_1_547079

Fortunately the team had enough spares to repair Hamilton’s machine but he was unable to return to the track for the start of P2.

Dave B

23rd July 2010, 14:34

HAM out on track and immedately up to speed, 5LiveF1 reporting he's on a ten lap run. First timed lap just 0.1 slower than BUT.

TRU stopped out on track, he had been running in P20. No damage, looks like a car failure, he's being pushed off by marshals.

Mercedes reporting "slight damage" to MSC's car so they've elected not to send him back out.

I am evil Homer

23rd July 2010, 14:36

That was quite a first lap by Lewis....lets see what he can do in the next few

Retro Formula 1

23rd July 2010, 14:39

It really is amazing that he has an off, gets the car rebuilt and is back on the pace first lap. That car cannot be 100% dialed in but it doesn't seem to stop him. Amazing.

I am evil Homer

23rd July 2010, 14:40

Bravo to the McLaren mechanics though...quite a shift they put in there!!

I am evil Homer

23rd July 2010, 14:43

Now 7th quickets after 4 laps of running!

Dave B

23rd July 2010, 14:45

Green S1 for HAM, purple S2, green S3 moves him up to P7. Excellent effort considering his car was Lego 20 mins ago.

Chequered flag. ALO VET MAS WEB ROS MSC HAM KUB BAR HUL KOB PET DLR SUT BUT LIU ALG GLO TRU DIG KOV SEN YAM.

I am evil Homer

23rd July 2010, 14:46

Hamilton just showed Button the way there - the difference between a very good driver and a great one.

And once again - superb effort by the mechancis to even get him out there.

Retro Formula 1

23rd July 2010, 14:46

So, on the evidence of the first 2 sessions, there doesn't seem to be too much between the Ferrari and Bulls, the Mercedes is pulling a strong third followed by McLaren, Renault etc.

We don't know the fuel levels but Mercedes and Ferrari look to have really taken a step forward and McLarens updates don't look too hot.

Dave B

23rd July 2010, 14:55

2nd practice times:

Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1. Alonso Ferrari 1:16.265 35
2. Vettel Red Bull-Renault 1:16.294 + 0.029 26
3. Massa Ferrari 1:16.438 + 0.173 37
4. Webber Red Bull-Renault 1:16.585 + 0.320 40
5. Rosberg Mercedes 1:16.827 + 0.562 32
6. Schumacher Mercedes 1:16.971 + 0.706 20
7. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1:17.004 + 0.739 10
8. Kubica Renault 1:17.009 + 0.744 37
9. Barrichello Williams-Cosworth 1:17.056 + 0.791 37
10. Hulkenberg Williams-Cosworth 1:17.204 + 0.939 44
11. Kobayashi Sauber-Ferrari 1:17.336 + 1.071 44
12. Petrov Renault 1:17.547 + 1.282 35
13. de la Rosa Sauber-Ferrari 1:17.573 + 1.308 39
14. Sutil Force India-Mercedes 1:17.701 + 1.436 38
15. Button McLaren-Mercedes 1:17.739 + 1.474 36
16. Liuzzi Force India-Mercedes 1:17.871 + 1.606 33
17. Buemi Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:18.147 + 1.882 45
18. Alguersuari Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:19.327 + 3.062 48
19. Glock Virgin-Cosworth 1:19.553 + 3.288 30
20. Trulli Lotus-Cosworth 1:20.008 + 3.743 34
21. di Grassi Virgin-Cosworth 1:20.106 + 3.841 31
22. Kovalainen Lotus-Cosworth 1:20.377 + 4.112 37
23. Senna HRT-Cosworth 1:21.988 + 5.723 37
24. Yamamoto HRT-Cosworth 1:23.066 + 6.801 37

Roamy

23rd July 2010, 15:44

WOW that yamamoto is really fast!!!!

steveaki13

23rd July 2010, 18:58

WOW that yamamoto is really fast!!!!

Stunning :D

truefan72

23rd July 2010, 19:07

Apparently Webber is out on Inters because Vettel has been given all the wets :laugh:

lol

truefan72

23rd July 2010, 19:15

Great pictures Tazio.

They can probably get the suspension, diffuser, drive shafts and bodywork done but it all depends on damage to the gearbox and plumbing I suppose. Then it's a good 20-30 mins of setting up and balancing on the scales and levels.

I'd say they are up against it but if they can, it would be good to tune the car back in.

yup good picture

now if my local mechanic worked likes these guys it wouldn't take them bloody 2 days to change the bearings on my front wheels! the only trade off is that I get to drive a mustang for 2 days. (got to love hertz)

steveaki13

24th July 2010, 00:18

Two interesting sessions to watch, I personally would like to see a wet Qualifying Session.

Valve Bounce

24th July 2010, 02:24

Hamilton just showed Button the way there - the difference between a very good driver and a great one.

And once again - superb effort by the mechancis to even get him out there.

Surely that's not the same car he buggered up during Prac 1, is it?

truefan72

24th July 2010, 03:51

it sure is.
F1 mechanics are pretty darn good, up and down the pit lane

Saint Devote

24th July 2010, 04:13

Alonso-Ferrari easily quickest - thought so.

He was my pick before the season and I still think he is going to be the 2010 world champion - providing of course the FIA allow him ........

The last two races have been extremely difficult for Ferrari and MAYBE on Sunday they will get their first smooth race since the new package.

But then of course there is RB06 and they usually only really show their form in qualifying ..........

Saint Devote

24th July 2010, 04:18

It really is amazing that he has an off, gets the car rebuilt and is back on the pace first lap. That car cannot be 100% dialed in but it doesn't seem to stop him. Amazing.

Its not that straightforward. If you read what Mclaren stated today.

Jenson was not looking for a time this afternoon and he alone had to do the ENTIRE Mclaren program. They did not expect Lewis to run again until qualifying.

Therefore when they did get him going he did the only testing that Jenson was supposed to do at the end of the session but after so much work they concentrated on Lewis doing it and that was: to see how quick the car was for qualifying.

Whitmarsh said that they are not too pleased with seventh only, over 700ths of a second behind Alonso and behind the RB06's and the WO1's but that the new package does look to be working andhe expects Jense and Lewis to be okay on Saturday.

Saint Devote

24th July 2010, 04:29

Hamilton just showed Button the way there - the difference between a very good driver and a great one.

And you posting shows the difference between someone that is interested enough to read what the teams were doing and someone that is not - like yourself.

Why dont you actually take time to understand what goes on during the FP's these days.

And a "great driver"? Schumacher is a great driver, Senna and Prost and Lauda. MAYBE one day Hamilton - but not yet no matter how politically correct it is to say that and we ALL know the reason for that!

ShiftingGears

24th July 2010, 05:54

And a "great driver"? Schumacher is a great driver, Senna and Prost and Lauda. MAYBE one day Hamilton - but not yet no matter how politically correct it is to say that and we ALL know the reason for that!

What? Why don't you enlighten us?

Valve Bounce

24th July 2010, 06:48

Dave B

24th July 2010, 10:12

Pouring hard for FP3, this could be very interesting :D

Edit: Mr Slotover says it's stopped now...

Another edit: And it's started again...

Tazio

24th July 2010, 11:21

That was interesting! Were all the top runners on options?
Because they seemed to run a lot of laps on their last runs!
We could see much faster times in quali. if they were. :s ailor:

Tazio

24th July 2010, 12:05

Times
01. Vettel Red Bull-Renault 1:15.103 18 laps
02. Alonso Ferrari 1:15.387 + 0.284 21 laps
03. Webber Red Bull-Renault 1:15.708 + 0.605 16 laps
04. Massa Ferrari 1:15.854 + 0.751 20 laps
05. Rosberg Mercedes 1:16.046 + 0.943 20 laps
06. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1:16.207 + 1.104 13 laps
07. Schumacher Mercedes 1:16.473 + 1.370 16 laps
08. Barrichello Williams-Cosworth 1:16.481 + 1.378 23 laps
09. Kubica Renault 1:16.646 + 1.543 20 laps
10. Hulkenberg Williams-Cosworth 1:16.743 + 1.640 17 laps
11. Kobayashi Sauber-Ferrari 1:16.882 + 1.779 19 laps
12. Buemi Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:16.990 + 1.887 21 laps
13. Button McLaren-Mercedes 1:17.037 + 1.934 15 laps
14. Petrov Renault 1:17.148 + 2.045 20 laps
15. de la Rosa Sauber-Ferrari 1:17.220 + 2.117 19 laps
16. Alguersuari Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:17.341 + 2.238 21 laps
17. Liuzzi Force India-Mercedes 1:17.538 + 2.435 22 laps
18. Kovalainen Lotus-Cosworth 1:19.193 + 4.090 11 laps
19. Trulli Lotus-Cosworth 1:19.607 + 4.504 10 laps
20. Senna HRT-Cosworth 1:20.533 + 5.430 9 laps
21. Yamamoto HRT-Cosworth 1:21.538 + 6.435 14 laps
22. di Grassi Virgin-Cosworth 1:23.444 + 8.341 10 laps
23. Glock Virgin-Cosworth 1:23.873 + 8.770 7 laps
24. Sutil Force India-Mercedes 2 laps

Quali is wide open for Ferrari, and RB. McLaren seem to be struggling with new upgrades, although I expect The Boss to prove me wrong! :dozey:

Dave B

24th July 2010, 12:30

I've got a horrible feeling that Alonso will do well this weekend :(

truefan72

24th July 2010, 13:24

big impact for liuzzi,
session stopped

Robinho

24th July 2010, 14:02

nothing between Ferrari and Red Bull in qually pace, McLaren only just behind, but they have raced much better this year so i expect them to be hanging on, Mercedes nowhere, seem to have slipped behind both Renault and Williams :eek:

Robinho

24th July 2010, 14:04

and the Hulk knocks MS out of the top 10, ouch, the big man used to be best in the world, now he stuggles to make 3rd best German

truefan72

24th July 2010, 14:27

interesting qualy,

should be a good race tomorrow. first 2 corners and the run to turn 6 on the opening lap will be critical. Hopefully Hamilton can stay out of trouble, especially that first turn. Good to see the williams mixing it up now in Q3.

Robinho

24th July 2010, 14:31

i don't think there will be much between the top 6 at all in the race, McLaren have been a few tenths off in qually all year, only to equal or better the others in race trim. Think we could be in for another Canada or even Turkey, could be really close at the front, especially with the super soft and hard tyres out there

Tazio

24th July 2010, 14:42

I can't wait to see how Ferrari butcher this race! :p

Mia 01

24th July 2010, 14:42

Congratulations Sebastian!

But be avare of Fernando tomorrow.

Wasted Talent

24th July 2010, 15:19

and the Hulk knocks MS out of the top 10, ouch, the big man used to be best in the world, now he stuggles to make 3rd best German

Michael did better this qualifying - very little slower than Nico - clearly the car isn't that fast at the moment

WT

UltimateDanGTR

24th July 2010, 15:59

I can't wait to see how Ferrari butcher this race! :p

my bet will be alonso and seb the vet side by side into turn one, vettel loses his cool as he is forced wide by angrylonso, they collide and leave nowhere for massa to go........

but if they do make it through turn 1 which I hope, I'd expect a good race.

Big Ben

24th July 2010, 16:28

Mia 01

24th July 2010, 17:16

It will be interesting to see who comes first out of the first corner, Jenson or Lewis?

Zico

24th July 2010, 17:43

It will be interesting to see who comes first out of the first corner, Jenson or Lewis?

Neither... most likely Seb or Fernando ;)

On a serious note, it will be an interesting battle. If both have no issues/incidents I predict Lewis will finish the race ahead of Jenson whether he passes him at the 1st corner or not.

ShiftingGears

24th July 2010, 19:18

Button outqualifying Hamilton - unexpected! He needs to carry that advantage through to race day otherwise this performance will be little more than an anecdote when describing the course of the World Drivers Championship.

Webber will need to pass Massa early to have a reasonable chance of victory. Although if Massa's defensive driving is anything like that seen in the 2008 race, Mark won't have much to worry about. I can imagine Alonso pressuring Vettel but I can't see him winning the race. Maybe if it were the seemingly bulletproof 2006 calibre Fernando Alonso, but 'Nando has given an error ridden performance thus far in 2010.

Tazio

24th July 2010, 20:07

I have realized just how much these radio moments after a qualy session or a race between Vettel and the team annoy me. Didn´t we hear Vettel yell enough already? super extra mega fantastic job yee haa... I want to thank you guys, the pope, my mom and all my fans.. super duper awesome job.. They should try some tears of joy too... and after a win he should weep a little at the press conference... it´s everytime like freakin' christmasI have to agree. Webber and The Boss are never so shamelessly giddy. I don't even think Fred would get 1/2 that excited, and it's been eons since he's been on pole. Having said that Vettel put together a great lap and earned the right to act like a :s ailor:!!! :p

ioan

24th July 2010, 20:39

I have to agree. Webber and The Boss are never so shamelessly giddy. I don't even think Fred would get 1/2 that excited, and it's been eons since he's been on pole. Having said that Vettel put together a great lap and earned the right to act like a :s ailor:!!! :p

That's RBR PR politics. neither Webber nor Vettel would do this crap if they were not told to do so. he whole things sounds so artificial that it hurts my ears, so I turned of the sound as soon as they started to air the radio 'conversation'.

Tazio

24th July 2010, 20:59

That's RBR PR politics. neither Webber nor Vettel would do this crap if they were not told to do so. he whole things sounds so artificial that it hurts my ears, so I turned of the sound as soon as they started to air the radio 'conversation'.Ioan but why? Why does Red Bull promote such nonsense? Like you said It hurts the ears! :confused:

DazzlaF1

24th July 2010, 21:26

Glock gets a 10 place penalty, a shame seeign as Virgin had caught up with Lotus in terms of pace

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85514

Final Grid

ROW 1: 1st Vettel (Red Bull), 2nd Alonso (Ferrari)
ROW 2: 3rd Massa (Ferrari), 4th Webber (Red Bull)
ROW 3: 5th Button (McLaren), 6th Hamilton (McLaren)
ROW 4: 7th Kubica (Renault), 8th Barrichello (Williams)
ROW 5: 9th Rosberg (Mercedes), 10th Hulkenberg (Williams)
ROW 6: 11th Schumacher (Mercedes), 12th Kobayashi (Sauber)
ROW 7: 13th Petrov (Renault), 14th de la Rosa (Sauber)
ROW 8: 15th Alguersuari (Toro Rosso), 16th Buemi (Toro Rosso)
ROW 9: 17th Trulli (Lotus), 18th Kovalainen (Lotus)
ROW 10: 19th Sutil (Force India), 20th Senna (Hispania)
ROW 11: 21st Liuzzi (Force India), 22nd Yamamoto (Hispania)
ROW 12: 23rd di Grassi (Virgin), 24th Glock (Virgin)

DazzlaF1

24th July 2010, 21:41

Michael did better this qualifying - very little slower than Nico - clearly the car isn't that fast at the moment

WT

I agree, infact id go as far as saying they've fallen behind Williams somewhat in outright performance. They jsut cant seem to get their new aero updates to work, especially their f-duct.

Whereas Williams have been the turnaround of the season so far all thanks to some canny aero updates that have worked well, 22 points for Barrichello in the last 2 races, only the 2 Red Bulls and the 2 McLaren's have scored more than him.

ioan

24th July 2010, 22:11

Ioan but why? Why does Red Bull promote such nonsense?

I don't know. Maybe if I knew I would become a billionaire selling some crappy drinks.

truefan72

25th July 2010, 02:36

I have realized just how much these radio moments after a qualy session or a race between Vettel and the team annoy me. Didn´t we hear Vettel yell enough already? super extra mega fantastic job yee haa... I want to thank you guys, the pope, my mom and all my fans.. super duper awesome job.. They should try some tears of joy too... and after a win he should weep a little at the press conference... it´s everytime like freakin' christmas

I agree the exuberance i a bit much and contrived. You would think thst RBR would be more subdued abnout pole postion celebrations considering that they have not really capitalized on their dominance of pole positions this year.

The likes of alonso, Webber, hamilton, button and co must be thinking these rBR guys care more about qualiy than the actual race.

truefan72

25th July 2010, 02:37

Well its been widely reported that the crowd at Hockenheim is not what it was in Schumacher's heyday, and it begs the question, is F1 popular in Germany or simply a drivers character? Schuey is still winning the popularity contest with the crowd this weekend. :)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/sarahholt/2010/07/germany_coming_to_terms_with_n.html

you would think with the 7 germans on the grid along with Mercedes coming back to F1, the stands would be packed full.

Tazio

25th July 2010, 03:18

I agree the exuberance i a bit much and contrived. You would think thst RBR would be more subdued abnout pole postion celebrations considering that they have not really capitalized on their dominance of pole positions this year.

The likes of alonso, Webber, hamilton, button and co must be thinking these rBR guys care more about qualiy than the actual race.

I just think that with as many poles they (Red Bull) have taken I would be much more impressed by someone acting like he expected it, not like someone who just won the lottery. I remember when they used to say Mike was really animated and spontaneous in his celebrations. The likes of this is flat out "bush league". :dork: :dork: :dork: :s ailor: :dog:

Valve Bounce

25th July 2010, 03:26

I don't know. Maybe if I knew I would become a billionaire selling some crappy drinks.

ioan is right. I tried a can of that stuff once, and that goop tasted foul. I have my own Saeco INCANTO espresso machine, and it's no contest which is the better drink.

I reckon Red Bull is just trying to create as much controversy, noise, publicity, call it what you like just to flog that horrible goop.

Saint Devote

25th July 2010, 04:01

Psychological advantage Vettel. His celebration was aimed at ONE person: Webber.

From pole Vettel is at his strongest. At Hockenheim - potentially a dominant win lies ahead on Sunday.

Jense doing his usual fine work :-]
If track conditions are difficult and uncertain tomorrow then Jense will be in his element and could shine all the way to a podium - and MAYBE even the top step?!!!! To dream, to dream :-]

Really good to see the Red Cars up there. Formula One without the Ferraris also at the sharp end is just not proper.

Saint Devote

25th July 2010, 04:08

Saint Devote

25th July 2010, 04:15

OK!! so Bunsen is being dudded by a so-so driver. Are we all agreed on this then?

Jense outqualified Lewis today auld sporte! Thats what drivers who carry NUMBER 1 do.

As Webber considers himself a number 2 driver - he is likely to get his arse kicked by Seb Vet tomorrow in no uncertain terms.

What are the odds this is going to be a Mark Webber "special" - running off track and being passed by a Toro Rosso. A repeat Australian GP awaits!

Saint Devote

25th July 2010, 04:20

I'm sure if Fernando ask's very nicely they'll allow him to be the WDC this year, and they'll be an ice cream waiting. :laugh:

What an odd thing to say? Seriously please stop, I'm getting spoilt for choice for signature material lol.

Well, Alonso will definitely not act like Jack Brabham did after being beaten by a Williams car - in the pits after the race he deliberately aimed the Brabham at the nose of Williams' and rode over it, wrecking it.

OMG!!! I am forgetting - f1 drivers just dont do that sort of thing!

Tazio

25th July 2010, 04:47

ioan is right. I tried a can of that stuff once, and that goop tasted foul. I have my own Saeco INCANTO espresso machine, and it's no contest which is the better drink.

I reckon Red Bull is just trying to create as much controversy, noise, publicity, call it what you like just to flog that horrible goop.

+1

Psychological advantage Vettel. His celebration was aimed at ONE person: Webber. I beg to differ old sport. SV is three grid places ahead of MW, that is what's called a tactical advantage. As for the "psychology of the situation" what an absolute load of crap, if there is any psychological warfare you have grossly overrated it. MW will play the hand he drew, and consider the outcome after the race. A lot of your comments on this forum are very insightful. This is not one of them. SV took a pole MW had a big mistake in his last lap. Now if you could sight something SV did befor Q3 to psyche Mark out You might have an arguement I don't think MW is that thin skinned to give SV's conniption fit a second thought! :dog: :s ailor: :rolleyes:

Valve Bounce

25th July 2010, 06:42

Clearly your pallate is at odds with the many millions who enjoy the Asian flavor. Mateschitz is simply quite brilliant.

But remember that f1 is noticed by really very few in the USA, yet one cannot miss the widespread enjoyment of the drink in the City - NY, that is.

So the current RNR controversy is meaningless in the US.

So! your argument here is that more people drink Red Bull than Espresso coffee?

Also, are you saying that you yourself enjoy Red Bull and prefer it to espresso coffee? Just asking!!

Saint Devote

25th July 2010, 07:37

+1

I beg to differ old sport. SV is three grid places ahead of MW, that is what's called a tactical advantage. As for the "psychology of the situation" what an absolute load of crap, if there is any psychological warfare you have grossly overrated it. MW will play the hand he drew, and consider the outcome after the race. A lot of your comments on this forum are very insightful. This is not one of them. SV took a pole MW had a big mistake in his last lap. Now if you could sight something SV did befor Q3 to psyche Mark out You might have an arguement I don't think MW is that thin skinned to give SV's conniption fit a second thought! :dog: :s ailor: :rolleyes:

I did not say that Webber will be affected by it - but I do not consider for one second that Vettel's "halleujah" was definitely NOT meant for Webber - as well as massive relief because his best performances tend to be from pole.

I think that Vettel is wound up as taught as a guitar string and he knows that any mistake if Webber is on his game today will cost dearly.

The situation at RBR is like a married couple on the verge of divorce - explosive and Counselor Christian is just no good at this.

Further, with Jense and Lewis on row three, all eyes will be on that as well. They are managing their teammate relations well, but that is mainly because Jenson is just unflappable - he is in the Piers Courage mould of British drivers and it creates its own nervousness for teammates.

And there has not been a similar - almost - situation as at RBR. The almost was that overtaking move by Jense of Hamilton at [fill in the blank??]

Jense was fine afterwards - Lewis got back the position as the team stepped in to "hold station" but the journo's noticed that Lewis was extremely tense and guarded towards Jense.

I think in both teams Mark and Jenson are the stronger individuals and both Vettel and Hamilton are really shaken when beaten by their teammates in qualification or the race.

Everyone see who is in the RBR pits at Hockenheim? Daniel Ricciardo. He is in a tough battle in FR 3.5 - actually suprisingly with Mikhail Aleshin who is leading the championship and turning out to be the revelation of the season.

Saint Devote

25th July 2010, 07:45

So! your argument here is that more people drink Red Bull than Espresso coffee?

Also, are you saying that you yourself enjoy Red Bull and prefer it to espresso coffee? Just asking!!

:eek: :eek: Heaven forbid!!
As a confirmed EXTREMELY strong two large mugs per day Java Bean Juice imbiber, I cannot even imagine the day when more Red Bull will be consumed.

No, I just pointed out that there millions of people in the world who drink Red Bull's energy drink.

I do not drink Red Bull - I enjoy the natural [non-energy drink] Red Bull Cola as advertized on the RB06 wing endplates and the Tomzcyk DTM car.

Saint Devote

25th July 2010, 07:49

To add - I do not consider Webber a number TWO driver and I DO want him to beat Vettel.

If Mark would become the 2010 WDC, I think it would be just fantastic and as great a story as Jense's :-]

Robinho

25th July 2010, 08:44

I can't imagine how Vettel and Alonso can possibley go side by side into turn 1 and still both come out of the other side, it seems a recipe for disaster to me.

also i don't like coffee or Red Bull, in fact i don't drink any caffeine as a rule (decaf tea is my beverage of choice)

Valve Bounce

25th July 2010, 10:10

Clearly your pallate is at odds with the many millions who enjoy the Asian flavor. Mateschitz is simply quite brilliant.

.

er...does that really mean my pallate is at odds with the many millions ...etc, etc, etc, or are you just saying something silly to prove a point?

ioan

25th July 2010, 10:19

ioan is right. I tried a can of that stuff once, and that goop tasted foul. I have my own Saeco INCANTO espresso machine, and it's no contest which is the better drink.

I reckon Red Bull is just trying to create as much controversy, noise, publicity, call it what you like just to flog that horrible goop.

I got one gifted to me on a train once and the only positive thing about it was that it was still cold. After drinking half of it I decided never to buy one of these.

[quote="Valve Bounce":2oowvs48]ioan is right. I tried a can of that stuff once, and that goop tasted foul. I have my own Saeco INCANTO espresso machine, and it's no contest which is the better drink.

I reckon Red Bull is just trying to create as much controversy, noise, publicity, call it what you like just to flog that horrible goop.

Clearly your pallate is at odds with the many millions who enjoy the Asian flavor. Mateschitz is simply quite brilliant.

But remember that f1 is noticed by really very few in the USA, yet one cannot miss the widespread enjoyment of the drink in the City - NY, that is.

So the current RNR controversy is meaningless in the US.[/quote:2oowvs48]

The taste is rather bad, I prefer a Coke or a Pepsi any day any time.

Plus when I see the kind of people drinking this crap, at least here in Austria, I instantly have a negative feeling about it.

ioan

25th July 2010, 10:20

er...does that really mean my pallate is at odds with the many millions ...etc, etc, etc, or are you just saying something silly to prove a point?

It just means that you have great tastes unlike many millions! ;)

ioan

25th July 2010, 10:22

Psychological advantage Vettel. His celebration was aimed at ONE person: Webber.

I am rather sure that Webber doesn't hear Vettel's radio communication, so I still believe this is is some kind of PR exercise directed towards Red Bull customers.

Dave B

25th July 2010, 10:32

I've seen drivers celebrating pole position hundreds of times, it never occurred to me that they might be anything other than just happy. Clearly others have a better grasp of rudimentary psychology...

Tazio

25th July 2010, 12:19

I did not say that Webber will be affected by it - but I do not consider for one second that Vettel's "halleujah" was definitely NOT meant for Webber - as well as massive relief because his best performances tend to be from pole.

I think that Vettel is wound up as taught as a guitar string and he knows that any mistake if Webber is on his game today will cost dearly.

The situation at RBR is like a married couple on the verge of divorce - explosive and Counselor Christian is just no good at this.

Further, with Jense and Lewis on row three, all eyes will be on that as well. They are managing their teammate relations well, but that is mainly because Jenson is just unflappable - he is in the Piers Courage mould of British drivers and it creates its own nervousness for teammates.

And there has not been a similar - almost - situation as at RBR. The almost was that overtaking move by Jense of Hamilton at [fill in the blank??]

Jense was fine afterwards - Lewis got back the position as the team stepped in to "hold station" but the journo's noticed that Lewis was extremely tense and guarded towards Jense.

I think in both teams Mark and Jenson are the stronger individuals and both Vettel and Hamilton are really shaken when beaten by their teammates in qualification or the race.

Everyone see who is in the RBR pits at Hockenheim? Daniel Ricciardo. He is in a tough battle in FR 3.5 - actually suprisingly with Mikhail Aleshin who is leading the championship and turning out to be the revelation of the season. OK so you want to back peddle out of your original comment that I addressed.
Why are you dragging The Boss, Bunsen, and Piers Courage into it? :confused: Daniel Ricardo, Mikhail Aleshin WTF!!!! You don't have any inside info into these guys’ psyches. Vettel is a little high strung I think that is a fair assessment. All the more reason to work on self control. If you just stated that instead of saying it was a psyche job on Webber we wouldn't be having this exchange. Instead you turned it into the projection of someone getting caught up in the tabloid aspect of the game. I'll have none of it. As for The Boss, I've been one of his biggest critics. However I believe he has made a quantum leap in the area of maturity, and has an edge on JB because of it, and the fact that he is more talented behind the wheel. But that is something that will play out over the course of the season!

ioan

25th July 2010, 13:17

Felipe leads! Go go!

ioan

25th July 2010, 13:18

And MS leads Rosberg!

Valve Bounce

25th July 2010, 13:29

ioan

25th July 2010, 13:40

Impressive first stint from Button!

ioan

25th July 2010, 13:42

That was a frightening camera view from Button's McLaren.

ioan

25th July 2010, 13:44

:laugh:

Alonso complains because the team doesn't use team orders! :rotflmao:

What he did to Massa in China was ridiculous and his start together was ridiculous again.

markabilly

25th July 2010, 13:45

Funny! I was looking at that grid, and I thought that Massa, being on the faster side, could get a better start than Alonso and get P2. But I never thought Vettel would make the same mistake he made at Silverstone, tried to squeeze Alonso, and lost two places instead.

I suppose the vettel fan boys are going to blame Alonso for Vettel's poor start. :p :
No, I blame Webber for not teaching him the true ways of the Chopper....

the boy justs looks so pitiful when he tries, doing all sorts of damage to himself....perhaps he could talk MS into giving him some lessons

or maybe he actually drinks that red cow piss and it is shrinking his balls

ioan

25th July 2010, 13:45

:eek: 3 seconds put stop for Button!

markabilly

25th July 2010, 13:51

as usual MS has good start, but as usual, with the pit stops(?????), MS is going backwards....

ioan

25th July 2010, 13:53

Massa is trouncing Alonso, about 6 tenths of a second or so per lap.

markabilly

25th July 2010, 13:56

:laugh:

Alonso complains because the team doesn't use team orders! :rotflmao:

What he did to Massa in China was ridiculous and his start together was ridiculous again.
When he said "this is ridiculous" I thought FA was referring to Massa, but maybe the irony is that he was talking about himself????? :D

markabilly

25th July 2010, 14:01

and now MS is really losing the pace from Rosberg.....

markabilly

25th July 2010, 14:15

prettty boring race....YAWN,

although the hint in the radio traffic is that macs might have to become very agressive on saving fuel...would be funny if they both ran out on the last lap and failed to finish

The only other real drama is whether freddie will pass massa, via team orders or whatever......or maybe a little bump and run between them, ala webber and vettel????

Opps, now webber is being told to watch out, as his oil might not be in his engine any longer

ioan

25th July 2010, 14:19

Team order at Ferrari.
Very funny how Smedley did transmit it.

Screw Ferrari.

ioan

25th July 2010, 14:20

I hope this move will be investigated by the stewards.

Poor Smedley and poor Felipe. Guys take your stuff and move to another team. At least they made it as obvious as possible to the viewers.

christophulus

25th July 2010, 14:20

Disgusting, hope they get penalised for that. And that, essentially, is why I didn't put any money on Massa to win - they'd just tell him to let Alonso through.

Mark

25th July 2010, 14:21

A disgrace.

markabilly

25th July 2010, 14:22

opps, team orders....????????

ioan

25th July 2010, 14:23

Will Alonso feel uncomfortable and push Massa on the top step? I doubt it given his earlier words today.

gm99

25th July 2010, 14:23

Ferrari have really learned their lesson from Austria 02 :rolleyes:

motetarip

25th July 2010, 14:29

No doubt Ferrari will pull out some pre-arranged 'agreement' between Alonso and Massa to dispute any allegations of team orders

ioan

25th July 2010, 14:29

I always thought that Domenicali is not strong enough and now he just bent over to those Santander guys standing in the back of the garage.

ioan

25th July 2010, 14:30

No doubt Ferrari will pull out some pre-arranged 'agreement' between Alonso and Massa to dispute any allegations of team orders

Well I wonder what that could be given that Massa was ahead as soon as the race started.

gloomyDAY

25th July 2010, 14:31

I feel awful for Massa. Going from championship contender in 2008 to lapdog in 2010 must be a hard pill to swallow.

motetarip

25th July 2010, 14:32

Well I wonder what that could be given that Massa was ahead as soon as the race started.

Maybe they thought Fred could overtake Massa on his own merit, apparently not

ioan

25th July 2010, 14:43

Maybe they thought Fred could overtake Massa on his own merit, apparently not

Alonso is a lousy overtaker this year, he either droves into other cars or drives them out of the track.

markabilly

25th July 2010, 14:45

if vettel passes massa and then fred gets put back behind massa, does that make Vettel the winner??
If so, that should bring tears of joy to valve Bounce.....

truefan72

25th July 2010, 14:47

they stole massa's win.

I actually was rooting for him when it became clear hamilton was not going to win and I too am heartbroken for him. This is as clear cut a case of team orders as I have seen in a long long time, he pretty much slowed up and let alonso through while leading the race, :down:

even worse to see Alonso rejoicing as if he deserved it, Massa was quicker than him and he complained earlier on as if he should not have to pathetic

christophulus

25th July 2010, 14:51

I was cheering for Massa to win today, and I'm certainly not a Ferrari fan. I'm gutted.

Robinho

25th July 2010, 14:57

i don't think a win has ever been so undeserved, i can't wait for the Brazilian race!

UltimateDanGTR

25th July 2010, 15:01

I was cheering for Massa to win today, and I'm certainly not a Ferrari fan. I'm gutted.

:up: I completely agree, Massa was at least the moral victor today.

as Eddie Jordan said, this was 'theft'

but here is the situation: though it was clear to everybody who was watching what was meant by 'fernando. is. faster. than. you. can you confirm you understand this' taken literally, the words used in that sentence mean communication of information, rather than an order. In this instance, it's actually a tough situation for the FIA, even if it's obvious to you and me.

VkmSpouge

25th July 2010, 15:01

Ferrari clearly had the best car in the field unfortunately they let the wrong Ferrari win, at least from a race point of view. Felipe Massa deserved the win today.
McLaren must be thinking that their blown diffuser has really cost them, they ould not compete with Ferrari and Vettel today. Jenson Button used strategy to his advantage to leap frog Mark Webber in the pits.
Timo Glock coming out on top of the new cars, I think the Virgin would have caught and passed Kovalainen towards the end of the race, their strategy seemed to be working and he was a good couple of seconds a lap faster on new tyres than the Lotus before Kovalainen and de la Rosa made contact.

christophulus

25th July 2010, 15:08

In this instance, it's actually a tough situation for the FIA, even if it's obvious to you and me.

And that's the problem, there's no evidence that the FIA can produce that would stand up in court, for example. It's a joke, they have to punish Ferrari or scrap the rule, as that's as blatant as it's ever going to get.

UltimateDanGTR

25th July 2010, 15:13

And that's the problem, there's no evidence that the FIA can produce that would stand up in court, for example. It's a joke, they have to punish Ferrari or scrap the rule, as that's as blatant as it's ever going to get.

exactly, and I'd hate to see option 2 take place.....

markabilly

25th July 2010, 15:16

:up: I completely agree, Massa was at least the moral victor today.

as Eddie Jordan said, this was 'theft'

but here is the situation: though it was clear to everybody who was watching what was meant by 'fernando. is. faster. than. you. can you confirm you understand this' taken literally, the words used in that sentence mean communication of information, rather than an order. In this instance, it's actually a tough situation for the FIA, even if it's obvious to you and me.
you mean like where MS at Monaco Qing a few years ago, could not remeber whether that corner was a left or right hander and stopped to try to figure it out...seems they had no problem with that one....

This so clear even a blind man can see it....

rublazar2

25th July 2010, 15:24

Massa is trouncing Alonso, about 6 tenths of a second or so per lap.

What I've seen is that Alonso has recovered that split in just 5 or 6 laps, demonstrating that he was faster than Massa.

When he said "this is ridiculous" I thought FA was referring to Massa, but maybe the irony is that he was talking about himself????? :D

Ridiculous is when you have overtaken your teammate, and you're fighting for both Constructor and Driver's Championship, and then your teammate is extending his breaking zone in order to not let you pass.

Team order at Ferrari.
Very funny how Smedley did transmit it.

Yeah, is more fun when you hear "you'd better try to save fuel" or "you don't have to save fuel anymore" if your teammate is faster and right behind you

I was cheering for Massa to win today, and I'm certainly not a Ferrari fan. I'm gutted.

He would have deserved the victory just keeping his pace when he was 3 sec. in front of Alonso. When Fernando has decided to show us who was faster today, he has recoverd that split in 6 laps, and then Vettel was approaching to them, just because Massa was clearly slower.

Ioan, in Spain there's a saying that was made for you: "No hay más ciego que el que no quiere ver (The one who's blinder is that one who doesn't want to see")

Excuse me for my bad english,

I am evil Homer

25th July 2010, 15:26

The key phrase is "can you confirm you understand" simple timing would tell Massa the truth not that message. It's utter crap once again. And the FIA will do nothing.

Once again a sport I love makes me want to never watch again.

truefan72

25th July 2010, 15:34

What I've seen is that Alonso has recovered that split in just 5 or 6 laps, demonstrating that he was faster than Massa.

Ridiculous is when you have overtaken your teammate, and you're fighting for both Constructor and Driver's Championship, and then your teammate is extending his breaking zone in order to not let you pass.

Yeah, is more fun when you hear "you'd better try to save fuel" or "you don't have to save fuel anymore" if your teammate is faster and right behind you

He would have deserved the victory just keeping his pace when he was 3 sec. in front of Alonso. When Fernando has decided to show us who was faster today, he has recoverd that split in 6 laps, and then Vettel was approaching to them, just because Massa was clearly slower.

Ioan, in Spain there's a saying that was made for you: "No hay más ciego que el que no quiere ver (The one who's blinder is that one who doesn't want to see")

Excuse me for my bad english,

you should apologize for the post

even the Ferrari pr guys would frown at this post

rublazar2

25th July 2010, 15:41

you should apologize for the post

even the Ferrari pr guys would frown at this post

Yeah, and Alonso should apologize for being faster than his teammate the WHOLE weekend :dozey:

Dave B

25th July 2010, 15:43

Yeah, and Alonso should apologize for being faster than his teammate the WHOLE weekend :dozey:
He couldn't overtake Massa earlier in the race, but there was no indication they would take each other out. If he really was quicker, he should have shown it on the track like a man.

truefan72

25th July 2010, 15:47

christophulus

25th July 2010, 15:48

Ferrari have been summoned to see the stewards.

rublazar2

25th July 2010, 15:50

He couldn't overtake Massa earlier in the race, but there was no indication they would take each other out. If he really was quicker, he should have shown it on the track like a man.

I Have only seen Massa being faster than Alonso at the start, when Vettel tried to paint the wall with Alonso's tires.

And I've seen Alonso overtaking Massa, when they were lappin another driver. But then Massa decided to emulate Webber's and Vettel's incident in Turkey, not thinking of his team. That was the reason for Alonso's whining.

steveaki13

25th July 2010, 15:51

Come on stewards finally make a sensible decision.

Win the fans trust back.

Dave B

25th July 2010, 15:53

And I've seen Alonso overtaking Massa, when they were lappin another driver.
Did you? I missed that. I only saw him attempt a brave move which didn't come off. Alonso's not proving himself to be a great overtaker this year, even on backmarkers, and if he can't achieve a pass without help for his team then that's his tough luck.

steveaki13

25th July 2010, 15:56

Changin the subject.

I was suprised at the pace of the top 6 compared to Renault and Mercedes. 1 lap down.
I hope Mclaren will be faster in Hungary.

Robinho

25th July 2010, 15:57

i'll wait for a few hours before making my pickems choices i think

truefan72

25th July 2010, 15:57

Ferrari have been summoned to see the stewards.

yep just heard, things are getting interesting

steveaki13

25th July 2010, 16:21

The BBC were just talking to Christian Horner, about the teams refuelling the teams so light they all have to back off and save fuel just to make the end.

Another way in which the teams try to take a small advantage and end up not racing 100% for a chunk of the race.

For me this is a disappointment. I wish they could race the whole race.

gloomyDAY

25th July 2010, 16:22

ioan

25th July 2010, 16:47

you should apologize for the post

even the Ferrari pr guys would frown at this post

Don't bother he's just a Spanish Alonso fan.

ioan

25th July 2010, 16:47

you should apologize for the post

even the Ferrari pr guys would frown at this post

Don't bother he's just a Spanish Alonso fan, one of those who would make fun of Hamilton's family.

ioan

25th July 2010, 16:49

I Have only seen Massa being faster than Alonso at the start, when Vettel tried to paint the wall with Alonso's tires.

And I've seen Alonso overtaking Massa, when they were lappin another driver. But then Massa decided to emulate Webber's and Vettel's incident in Turkey, not thinking of his team. That was the reason for Alonso's whining.

What a load of bull crap Alonso never overtook Massa before the orders, he only tried.
And why should Massa give too much thought to a team that doesn't care about him?

donKey jote

25th July 2010, 16:57

Don't bother he's just a Spanish Alonso fan, one of those who would make fun of Hamilton's family.
leave it at scum if you must, but cut the racist crap ioan :down:

ioan

25th July 2010, 17:01

leave it at scum if you must, but cut the racist crap ioan :down:

How could I be racist with Spanish if I am a Caucasian myself?!
Or do you deny that 2 years ago Spanish fans made fun of Hamilton's family?
And didn't Alonso behave like human scum today?

donKey jote

25th July 2010, 17:13

Or do you deny that 2 years ago Spanish fans made fun of Hamilton's family?
some fans who were Spanish blackened up for an ill-conceived laugh. Ignorant, racist, yes... not enough for such a generalisation though ;)

And didn't Alonso behave like human scum today?
"human scum" I tend to reserve for people like child molesters

But feel free to vent your frustration :)

ioan

25th July 2010, 17:27

some fans who were Spanish blackened up for an ill-conceived laugh. Ignorant, racist, yes... not enough for such a generalisation though ;)

I said probably one of those. I didn't say all the Spanish people are like him.

"human scum" I tend to reserve for people like child molesters...

Well, I am obviously a bit more radical. ;)

But feel free to vent your frustration :)

Thank you your highness. :p

donKey jote

25th July 2010, 17:39

you're welcome...

now Kneel, scum! ;) :p

Dave B

25th July 2010, 17:41

As an aside, Force India could be DQ'd for a tyre mix up which saw them go over their allocation. Clearly a bigger crime than race fixing!

Dave B

25th July 2010, 17:42

Oh, and Heikki has been reprimanded for colliding with PdlR.

donKey jote

25th July 2010, 17:42

was that when they changed 2 tyres, twice?

Ranger

25th July 2010, 17:46

was that when they changed 2 tyres, twice?

You can't use tyres allocated for your team-mate. It's a straight DQ offence.

Tora Takagi was disqualified when the same thing happened with Arrows at the 1999 French GP.

ioan

25th July 2010, 17:46

you're welcome...

now Kneel, scum! ;) :p

Don't push it.

ioan

25th July 2010, 17:47

You can't use tyres allocated for your team-mate. It's a straight DQ offence.

Tora Takagi was disqualified when the same thing happened with Arrows at the 1999 French GP.

What?
I thought F1 was a team sport, that's what Ferrari told us!
If they can share wins they should be allowed to share some rubber too. :D

rublazar2

25th July 2010, 18:25

Don't bother he's just a Spanish Alonso fan, one of those who would make fun of Hamilton's family.

If only you have seen my signature, you'd have noticed that my favourite driver ever is Ayrton Senna. I'm 35, and I've watching F1 since Senna was driving that yellow Lotus Camel Honda. If you have more than 20 thousand post here doesn't mean you have a better achievement of this sport, only that you're living here and not me.

It would be fun to recover all the things you said when your beloved MSC did worse things than Alonso did today.

ioan

25th July 2010, 18:40

If only you have seen my signature, you'd have noticed that my favourite driver ever is Ayrton Senna. I'm 35, and I've watching F1 since Senna was driving that yellow Lotus Camel Honda. If you have more than 20 thousand post here doesn't mean you have a better achievement of this sport, only that you're living here and not me.

Where did I say that you are not a Senna fan?!

It would be fun to recover all the things you said when your beloved MSC did worse things than Alonso did today.

Be my guest.

donKey jote

25th July 2010, 18:53

It would be fun to recover all the things you said when your beloved MSC did worse things than Alonso did today.
Ioan is a "born again" racing fan. Ferrari is his new "Evil"...
The End is nigh! :vader:

truefan72

25th July 2010, 19:27

As an aside, Force India could be DQ'd for a tyre mix up which saw them go over their allocation. Clearly a bigger crime than race fixing!

lol

Tazio

25th July 2010, 20:16

ioan

25th July 2010, 20:29

Just watched the replay, great result for Ferrari! punishing for their rivals. With the successful implementation of their Q-mapping they should be on or near the front of the grid in Hungary. Looks like a lot of members might just sulk all the way through until Spa where Ferrari will implement major
upgrades :kiss: :s ailor:
:rotflmao: :wave:

Everything Ferrari implemented this season is ideas they copied from the other teams, and come Spa the others will also come with new ideas that Ferrari will need time to copy, again.

Tazio

25th July 2010, 20:35

Everything Ferrari implemented this season is ideas they copied from the other teams, and come Spa the others will also come with new ideas that Ferrari will need time to copy, again.

That doesn't say much for McLaren and their attempt at a blown diffuser :arrows: :kiss: :s ailor:

It will therefore be in the August recess - after the Hungarian Grand Prix there will be almost a month of rest - that the F10 will be radically revised. At Spa-Francorchamps in the Belgian Grand Prix in late August, the car of Ferrari in Maranello will be so amended that the show as "two trends".

The main new features of the aerodynamics, and those of the back and in particular the area of exchange. The shape of the transmission box it affects a large part of the evolution of air flow in the lower part of the body.

Remake, however, requires months of work. This is why the new change of F10 is used since the changes to the waste, namely those located below introduced the European GP at Valencia. It should also be noted that Regulation, a transmission must last for four races in succession, excluding withdrawals.

Fernando Alonso and Felipe Massa will use the new exchange at Spa-Francorchamps. Another update that Ferrari will be in Belgium rear suspension with new geometry.

:kiss: :s ailor:

http://www.auto.it/autosprint/formul...i+evoluzione+2

ioan

25th July 2010, 20:37

That doesn't say much for McLaren and their attempt at a blown diffuser :arrows: :monkeedan :kiss: :s ailor: :bandit:

No but at least McLaren were smart enough to come up with the F-duct and make it work!

Mia 01

25th July 2010, 20:46

This was a race that always will be remembered but for the wrong reasons.

Big Ben

25th July 2010, 20:54

What a great race have I missed... to see Ioan losing his mind like this it must have been the best so far

Saint Devote

25th July 2010, 20:55

Vettel made his Silverstone error AGAIN. Expected great preformance from Ferrari.

And Mclaren's did their best - pity Jense was held up at the start - allowed Hamilton to pass and the result extends his WDC lead - but I did enjoy his sublime performance on the soft tyres :-]

I think Sutil will be in the Renault in 2011 and that Petrov is out.

Tazio

25th July 2010, 20:59

No but at least McLaren were smart enough to come up with the F-duct and make it work!The F10 was built on a platform that is easily modified, and it's starting to pay dividends. :s ailor: :kiss: :s ailor: :kiss: :arrows:

Saint Devote

25th July 2010, 21:00

I feel awful for Massa. Going from championship contender in 2008 to lapdog in 2010 must be a hard pill to swallow.

Massa was not forced to sign the contract for 2011 and 2012 - and he decided what to do.

He could have refused. He did not. His actions are disgraceful and both he and Smedley ought to be hauled before Luca de Montezemolo on Monday morning for Sunday's petulant displays.

Saint Devote

25th July 2010, 21:06

I am still waiting to hear if there is going to be an investigation

I cannot understand how they are not even discussing it.

Maybe having Danny Sullivan ( an Indyy CART guy and probably cluelless about F1) as one of the stewards is a facotr. Him not wanting to be in the middle of a decision like this.

My question to them is clear"
What do you do when a team breaks a rule?

How can you deride one of the nicest people in racing like Sullivan?

He raced for Tyrrell in formula 1 and is one of the rarest of drivers that immediately out of the car he would be friendly and open to fans.

HE is not the one that is "clueless about f1".

Jeez! Some people here :mad:

Robinho

25th July 2010, 21:06

Massa was not forced to sign the contract for 2011 and 2012 - and he decided what to do.

He could have refused. He did not. His actions are disgraceful and both he and Smedley ought to be hauled before Luca de Montezemolo on Monday morning for Sunday's petulant displays.

what colour is the sky in your world?

Smedley and Massa are the only 2 to come out of this with any scrap of integrity although that rapidally went downhill once the Party line got to them.

they showed up the team for what they really are, and the team then had them in front of the stewards and made them lie. You remember the flak that Lewis took for lying to the stewards? well the whole ferrari team have been in there and lied through their teeth.

Luca will be managing the fallout from the crazy decision to swap the places of the race for no good reason (other than not making Alonso cry), and to rub salt in, a year to the day since Massa nearly lost his life in one of his cars, they treat him like this. Massa and Smedley are better off out of there, they would thrive at many other teams i believe.

Robinho

25th July 2010, 21:09

How can you deride one of the nicest people in racing like Sullivan?

He raced for Tyrrell in formula 1 and is one of the rarest of drivers that immediately out of the car he would be friendly and open to fans.

HE is not the one that is "clueless about f1".

Jeez! Some people here :mad:

in 2 posts in a row, you deride one of the nicest people in racing, Felipe Massa, who is friendly and open, then on the other hand dig at someone for doing the same for someone you consider "nice", whilst chucking in the customary historical reference to make it look like you are the oracle of the sport.

like you said, some people :rolleyes:

Tazio

25th July 2010, 21:10

Expected great preformance from Ferrari.
Yes it is in the record! :s ailor:

And Mclaren's did their best - pity Jense was held up at the start - allowed Hamilton to pass and the result extends his WDC lead - but I did enjoy his sublime performance on the soft tyres :-]
I too was amazed at the times he was recording near the end of his stint as I watched timing.
Very impressive
:up: :s ailor: ;)

Mia 01

25th July 2010, 21:20

The result will not stand.

Shalafi

25th July 2010, 21:23

The result will not stand.

Dont know, its Ferrari after all... In a land of calciopoli certainly not Ferraripoli. :D

Saint Devote

25th July 2010, 21:25

what colour is the sky in your world?

Smedley and Massa are the only 2 to come out of this with any scrap of integrity although that rapidally went downhill once the Party line got to them.

they showed up the team for what they really are, and the team then had them in front of the stewards and made them lie. You remember the flak that Lewis took for lying to the stewards? well the whole ferrari team have been in there and lied through their teeth.

Luca will be managing the fallout from the crazy decision to swap the places of the race for no good reason (other than not making Alonso cry), and to rub salt in, a year to the day since Massa nearly lost his life in one of his cars, they treat him like this. Massa and Smedley are better off out of there, they would thrive at many other teams i believe.

This formula 1 sonny boy! :eek:

:D The question ought to be on which cloud have you been living?

Saint Devote

25th July 2010, 21:28

in 2 posts in a row, you deride one of the nicest people in racing, Felipe Massa, who is friendly and open, then on the other hand dig at someone for doing the same for someone you consider "nice", whilst chucking in the customary historical reference to make it look like you are the oracle of the sport.

like you said, some people :rolleyes:

Deride Massa? No. I criticize his actions AGAINST the interests of the Ferrari team and if he does not like the situation he CHOSE any more, then he is can resign.

It is not the same as calling Sullivan "clueless".

Saint Devote

25th July 2010, 21:30

Yes it is in the record! :s ailor:

I too was amazed at the times he was recording near the end of his stint as I watched timing.
Very impressive
:up: :s ailor: ;)

Thank you :D

Robinho

25th July 2010, 21:32

This formula 1 sonny boy! :eek:

:D The question ought to be on which cloud have you been living?

i will not discuss anything with you whilst you persist in this patronizing tone. don't talk to me like a child "sonny boy"?

i know its formula 1, i've been watching the sport for long enough to know what to expect

Robinho

25th July 2010, 21:38

Deride Massa? No. I criticize his actions AGAINST the interests of the Ferrari team and if he does not like the situation he CHOSE any more, then he is can resign.

It is not the same as calling Sullivan "clueless".

and i criticise the actions of the Ferrari team that have not benefitted the team at all, they got no more points and only acheived getting the stewards to decide against them, an appointment with the WMSC, a fine, the press turning on them and one driver who thrives on confidence being left at rick bottom by the team that he though were a family to him.

and you called for him to be hauled in front of Luca for his actions, reads like "derision" to me, and at one of the nicest guys in the sport, the grace he had when losing the title to Lewis is something you'd never see from Alonso

ioan

25th July 2010, 21:49

The F10 was built on a platform that is easily modified, and it's starting to pay dividends. :s ailor: :kiss: :s ailor: :kiss: :arrows:

Easily modified?
It took them 4 months to modify it while others did it in a month or so.

ioan

25th July 2010, 21:49

F1boat

25th July 2010, 21:49

Dont know, its Ferrari after all... In a land of calciopoli certainly not Ferraripoli. :D

If anything, Ferrari are constantly penalized this year.

ioan

25th July 2010, 21:52

...and at one of the nicest guys in the sport, the grace he had when losing the title to Lewis is something you'd never see from Alonso

You can bet your house on this one.

ioan

25th July 2010, 21:52

If anything, Ferrari are constantly penalized this year.

That's good because they are breaking the rules often since mono brow is on board.

rublazar2

25th July 2010, 21:55

That's good because they are breaking the rules often since mono brow is on board.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-66nziDRbk

I don't remember Alonso being in Ferrari when Kimi let Massa pass him in China 2008, nor Massa complaining about that

Mia 01

25th July 2010, 21:56

WMSC. In this case Jean can not afford to side with ferrari, and he wont. I dont even thinks he likes them any moore.

F1boat

25th July 2010, 21:58

Interesting how love can turn into hatred in some people.

ioan

25th July 2010, 22:00

Interesting how love can turn into hatred in some people.

There certainly is a good reason when such happens.

Mia 01

25th July 2010, 22:10

There certainly is a good reason when such happens.

Not hate, ashamed of them. Moore, Aloso should also be ashamed.

Instead he is proud, just like after Singapore 2008.

rublazar2

25th July 2010, 22:13

And interesting how your thinking about team orders changes in just one week

http://www.madeinmotorsport.com/en/headlines/news-f1-f1-needs-new-approach-to-team-orders-claims-horner-8393.html

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85534

rublazar2

25th July 2010, 22:14

Not hate, ashamed of them. Moore, Aloso should also be ashamed.

Instead he is proud, just like after Singapore 2008.

As proud as Massa was after China 2008

ioan

25th July 2010, 22:21

As proud as Massa was after China 2008

It didn't look like that to me.

Mia 01

25th July 2010, 22:24

In the pressconference it looked like Seb looked on Alonso not so friendley but also a little amused. For sure he knowed that this ting would bring big points his way.

Perhaps he was sorry for ferrari?

PSfan

25th July 2010, 22:57

I too was amazed at the times he was recording near the end of his stint as I watched timing.
Very impressive
:up: :s ailor: ;) Thank you :D

Your taking credit?!?!

Are you Jenson's dad? that would explain alot.... Did Mr. Davidson send you our way? :cheese:

rublazar2

25th July 2010, 23:27

It didn't look like that to me.

I was trying to be ironic :dozey:

gloomyDAY

25th July 2010, 23:48

What?
I thought F1 was a team sport, that's what Ferrari told us!
If they can share wins they should be allowed to share some rubber too. :D Wrong answer ioan. I never share my rubbers. :p

ioan

25th July 2010, 23:52

Wrong answer ioan. I never share my rubbers. :p

No one was talking about your rubbers, you filthy F1 fan! :p

Saint Devote

26th July 2010, 00:21

i will not discuss anything with you whilst you persist in this patronizing tone. don't talk to me like a child "sonny boy"?

i know its formula 1, i've been watching the sport for long enough to know what to expect

Then you understand full well that what Ferrari did today was no different from that which Enzo F, Mercedes, Alfa, Lotus and right throughout racing histororically has always been done - and is a valid and accepted way to engineer championship wins.

Regardless of the politically correct intefering way of the world today.

Stand by your words and announce that you understand and support Ferrari's actions.

ioan

26th July 2010, 00:23

Then you understand full well that what Ferrari did today was no different from that which Enzo F, Mercedes, Alfa, Lotus and right throughout racing histororically has always been done - and is a valid and accepted way to engineer championship wins.

Regardless of the politically correct intefering way of the world today.

Stand by your words and announce that you understand and support Ferrari's actions.

If you would have watched f1 as you claim you would know that the rules have been changed in 2002 and this is not allowed anymore.
Everyone does it disguised in one way or another but only Ferrari managed today to make it look like a huge slap in the face of everyone else. And for this they deserve to get a serious penalty.

Mia 01

26th July 2010, 01:04

They will for sure pay a price for this, moore than one that is.

truefan72

26th July 2010, 01:04

Saint Devote

26th July 2010, 01:55

If you would have watched f1 as you claim you would know that the rules have been changed in 2002 and this is not allowed anymore.
Everyone does it disguised in one way or another but only Ferrari managed today to make it look like a huge slap in the face of everyone else. And for this they deserve to get a serious penalty.

And it is the responsibility of every team to find loopholes or ways around rules - marvellously accomplished usually.

A slap in the face for nobody. They have no duty to sacrifice themselves to anyone - and any expectation of that is wrong.