Schumacher !!! Should he call it quits

[harsha]

It's really pathetic to see Nick Fry and Ross Brawn continue supporting Schumacher inspite of Schumacher being creamed by Rosberg race in / race out....

Ofcourse , being taken apart by a team-mate this season doesn't tarnish your reputation one bit...but did he have to sign to compete with the Force India for points where the team mate is competing more often than not with the top guys ?

and could we have a poll on this one ?

[Mia 01]

If Mercedes earns PR money on him, well.

But, they loose WCC points on him which also means loss of money, well.

And, some are loosing dignity.

[harsha]

and i would like to see a thread called "schumacher will destroy rosberg next season" make a comeback :D

[DazzlaF1]

Well he's over 40 years old, won everything there is to win in the sport and broke nearly every record in the book, what in gods name made him think he should come back?

His presence also is preventing worthy drivers itching for a chance in F1 from that seat, infact, they have a worthy driver sitting around doing nothing as a tester who should be on the grid

[Anderton]

Apparently good ol' Bernie said today that he can see Schumacher quiting the sport at the end of the season.
I respect Schumacher a hell of a lot for being a great driver and i hate seeing him being outperformed each weekend by Nico... Brawn says his form is coming back, but it's safe to say we haven't seen this yet.
One bad season wont tarnish his legacy, but another poor one might. I think he should call it quits at the end of 2010 so people don't remember him for his failed comeback, but rather his glory days.

[Saint Devote]

It's really pathetic to see Nick Fry and Ross Brawn continue supporting Schumacher inspite of Schumacher being creamed by Rosberg race in / race out....

Ofcourse , being taken apart by a team-mate this season doesn't tarnish your reputation one bit...but did he have to sign to compete with the Force India for points where the team mate is competing more often than not with the top guys ?

and could we have a poll on this one ?

Everyone should just shut-up and allow Schumi to get on with it.

There is no testing allowed and he has had to get used to a new F1 era that ALL the top drivers in f1 and including the rabbits like Kovaleinen have had time to dial themselves into since 2007.

Schumi is racing because he wants to and he has the support of his team because they want to.

I think he will definitely race in 2011 and decide from then.

It was a brave move to return just as it was similarly one by Jense to join Lewis. But do all these armchair finger pointers [I'll tell you where you can shove your finger] focus on that? Of course not - there is just a disgusting eagerness to try and undermine Schumacher's effort.

At least, at the VERY minimum, have the decency to give Schumi a chance like no other driver - because he is not just another driver. He has set records not likely to be broken ever.

[harsha]

It was a brave move to return just as it was similarly one by Jense to join Lewis. B

fine line between bravery and down right foolishness


and as far as your rant for Force India goes , Sutil is just about a point behind Schumacher and Force India is P6 in the championship with the team formed in 2007

so where do the "HOW MANY SEASONS" come into the play :?:

[Saint Devote]

fine line between bravery and down right foolishness


and as far as your rant for Force India goes , Sutil is just about a point behind Schumacher and Force India is P6 in the championship with the team formed in 2007

so where do the "HOW MANY SEASONS" come into the play :?:

If you cannot distinguish where Schumacher fits, then there is nothing I can do about that.

Force India would not even be straddling the arse end of the constructors championship with bailiffs now in hot pursuit of the ostentatious and garish Mallyah if it was not for its desperate call that went out to Mclaren for HELP!! :eek:

This is as good as it is ever going to get - no wonder Sutil is aiming for the Renault seat in 2011.

[harsha]

If you cannot distinguish where Schumacher fits, then there is nothing I can do about that.

Force India would not even be straddling the arse end of the constructors championship with bailiffs now in hot pursuit of the ostentatious and garish Mallyah if it was not for its desperate call that went out to Mclaren for HELP!! :eek:

This is as good as it is ever going to get - no wonder Sutil is aiming for the Renault seat in 2011.


if people can't distinguish stupidity from bravery , nothing can be done about that.....

the bottom line for Force India is that they are in P6 in the championships and have made quite a bit of improvement in 3 seasons in Formula 1.....whether you like it or not , doesn't change one fact

anyway , topic's about Schumacher , not about Force India and the garish VJ Mallya

[markabilly]

First problem, mercedes now owns the team, and views the team as a profit center and has all sorts of corporate restrictions on personnel and so forth.
Second, what set Schuie apart was testing, testing and more testing...at a private facility where they could do it whenever....
Third, for whatever reason, the car is not that good, and it strikes me that maybe Fry and Haug is too much in charge, and "Mercedes" is not spending the money to stay up on all the latest and greatest, due to reason number one.......

Frankly, I could see Brawn picking up and going....

[aryan]

That seat should have been Nick's. He's being wasted.

[Roamy]

should he quit

does a frog have an ass
does rocket j squirrel own a space ship
does traction control make a good driver look great
is the toad an idiot
does bernie look like a mobile mop
does senna need to learn how to send email
is piquet gay

[truefan72]

why

being 9th in the points right now is just about where I expected him to be.
He'll be fine. it is the media and his fans from his first go around that can't deal with it. Yeah he's had a few bad races, but he's also had some tough situations, bad luck and poor race management by the team (that cost him a top 5 in Valencia)

[555-04Q2]

No he shouldn't quit! He's come back to have some fun. He has nothing to prove to anyone, won evertything in F1 worth winning over and over again and pulls in big marketing money for Mercedes GP. Maybe next season he will be up to speed.

[ArrowsFA1]

Maybe next season he will be up to speed.
The goalposts seem to move as the season goes on. At first it was 'let's see after the first three races' :dozey: 'Maybe' he'll be up to speed in 2011 doesn't really cut it in the cut throat paddock where performance is everthing.

Here's the thing. We're talking about Michael Schumacher. 7-time WDC. 91 GP wins etc etc. Ok, he's been away from the sport for a while but he was always one of the fittest, most adaptable drivers on the grid. His fitness levels, we are told, are as good as they've ever been but he seems unable (so far) to adapt to the 2010 cars, and in particular the tyres.

I don't think anyone expected MS to be up to speed immediately, but halfway through the season he is performing no better or worse than he did in Bahrain. That's what is surprising.

Of course the major factor in F1 is the car, and Mercedes have not produced a great one so that has to be factored into MS's results, but it does not account for comparisons with his team-mate who has almost 3x's the number of points. Nico Rosberg is good, but I don't see him being compared with the very best on the current grid.

So, we have a driver unable to adapt to the 2010 car/tyres, being comfortably outscored by his team-mate, and showing no particular signs of improvement. Mercedes, who may well be getting marketing benefits from MS's presence, may also find themselves in an uncomfortable position come the end of the season. Does marketing outweigh performance when it comes to Michael Schumacher?

[Saint Devote]

No he shouldn't quit! He's come back to have some fun. He has nothing to prove to anyone, won evertything in F1 worth winning over and over again and pulls in big marketing money for Mercedes GP. Maybe next season he will be up to speed.

Damn straight!!

As well as DOUBLING German f1 viewership in 2010. In Germany f1 IS Schumi.

And anyway - I think its just so nice to have him around again :D

But the best reason is that he can still do it but it takes longer these days - let us not forget the performance of Fisichella in 2009 for example.

[Sonic]

One bad season wont tarnish his legacy, but another poor one might. I think he should call it quits at the end of 2010 so people don't remember him for his failed comeback, but rather his glory days.

I don't think that will happen. Graham Hill went on long after his peak but I don't think anyone is claiming his legacy was tarnished.

I guess what this comes down to is this; Can he enjoy himself in the role of Mentor to Nico? If he can, I don't see any reason for him not to continue for the 3 years. If only the title will do I can see him backing out at the end of 2011.

With his home race coming up I'm guessing we'll get an answer. I remember Damon's lastr British GP where he virtually locked himself away for the weekend to try and rediscover the magic, and whilst he got closer to HHF than he had managed elsewhere it took every ounce of effort to get within 2 tenths and to my mind convinced him his time was over. Will we see something similar with shu?

[ArrowsFA1]

As well as DOUBLING German f1 viewership in 2010...
His comeback race in Bahrain may have doubled RTL's viewing figures when compared with the previous years season-opener (link (http://www.planetf1.com/news/3213/6031811/Schu-s-return-doubles-German-viewers)) but has that level of interest been maintained in subsequent races?

[Bagwan]

OK , think about this from Michael's eyes .

You've won it all .
You tried motorcycles , and they hurt .

You have an offer to come back .

You already have gazzillions in the bank , so the reason you return is to get back into the excitement .

You've decided the possibilty of being support driver isn't so bad , especially considering your past public reputation for being supported throughout your career . In that sense , it could help change that perception .

To help develop a new Marque in the paddock is attractive also .


Simply put , Michael , though certainly wanting to show well , will always make history , and having this fun in the paddock will take none of his records away .

I still expect him to deliver some great racing , and he will support his team-mate like a trooper when the time comes .


The only other point that I wish to make is that , to say that the shoe should quit devalues greatly the efforts of his young team-mate , who is doing very well .
Nico seems well focussed . Maybe what he needed was to have Michael beside him .
However , if that focus remains that Michael is falling , instead of Nico is rising , he may not make out as well in the eyes of the fan .

He needs to beat a 7-time WDC , not a fallen hero .

[wedge]

Personally he should have stayed retired but if Schumi still thinks of 'waiting' ('everything else is just waiting' as Steve McQueen once put it) and is unconcerned with reputations and whatnot then his decision should be respected.

[veeten]

It's all starting to remind me of another famous Michael...

Jordan. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jordan

Read the sections marked 'Second Retirement' and 'Washington Wizards comeback', different sport but the parameters will start to sound awfully familiar...

[markabilly]

It's all starting to remind me of another famous Michael...

Jordan. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jordan

Read the sections marked 'Second Retirement' and 'Washington Wizards comeback', different sport but the parameters will start to sound awfully familiar...


oR Brett Farve

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-vikings-favre&bcmt=4220754#mwpphu-comment-4220318

some just do not know how to quit....

others are experts,

just look at kimi

[pallone col bracciale]

For me, the great Michael retired in 2006. I agree with Luca, this is a different Michael.

[F1boat]

Yes. I think that he is enjoying himself, being a F1 driver again, but he is definitely past his prime. You can't cheat nature.

[amiman]

You need a car that can perform to get results, give him a car that can and lets see what happens.

Rosberg would not have been on the podium if Vettel hadn't blown it.

[Copse]

I think he should call it quits at the end of 2010 so people don't remember him for his failed comeback, but rather his glory days.

Many of us remember him for such things as Jerez -97, Adelaide -94 and Austria -02, despite his greatness. No failed comeback will change that.

I don't necessarily mean that I personally ignore Schumacher's greatness or his 7 titles. I'm just saying that he is a complicated character that people already have strong feelings for or against. Something really significant would have to happen for a failed comeback season to have much of an impact on his legacy.

[Jag_Warrior]

Not because I like Schumacher (I don't), but I think he should stay at least one more year. And the main reason for that is I think Nico could learn a lot from The Shoe. Even though Schumacher has apparently lost a step, I can't think of a better driver to help build Rosberg into the best racer that he can be.

I don't like him. But I do respect him. So I'd hate to see Michael leave in complete humiliation.

[truefan72]

No he shouldn't quit! He's come back to have some fun. He has nothing to prove to anyone, won evertything in F1 worth winning over and over again and pulls in big marketing money for Mercedes GP. Maybe next season he will be up to speed.

yep

and although I've never been a fan of his,.. I cannot deny that is return has been good for F1 as well. It is nice to see so many former WDC drivers on the grid and a tough field of many good drivers,. Now if Kimi comes back next year, it would be a spectacular field of f1 drivers

[truefan72]

I guess what this comes down to is this; Can he enjoy himself in the role of Mentor to Nico? If he can, I don't see any reason for him not to continue for the 3 years. If only the title will do I can see him backing out at the end of 2011.

thats an excellent point and one I did not think of. But it would be good to see him embrace that role as well as providing his expertise to the team.

[truefan72]

I also think if the car was bit better we would see a different story. He might still be getting beat by Rosberg, but then it might be for p2-5 instead of the lower end of p5-10 average. Rosberg is a darn good driver and is yet to win a race. This car is probably the 4/5/6th best (depending on the circuit)competing with the likes of renault and Force India as well as a quickly improving Williams.

[truefan72]

oR Brett Farve

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-vikings-favre&bcmt=4220754#mwpphu-comment-4220318

some just do not know how to quit....

others are experts,

just look at kimi

kimi did not quit.
He was forced out with a golden parachute.
Even I would have taken that deal

[truefan72]

I don't like him. But I do respect him. So I'd hate to see Michael leave in complete humiliation.

my feelings exactly. Never liked him but without doubt the greatest F1 driver in history. As my sig says...

[import111]

I voted no. I don't think a crappy or average comeback can even put a small dent in his legacy as 7 time world champ. If he is having fun driving an F1 car again and wants to stay, then I think he should.

[CNR]

he should wait until next years car
had Mercedes GP not left it so long to buy out brawn this years car could have been so much better

[woody2goody]

That seat should have been Nick's. He's being wasted.

Well there is that, which I'd kind of overlooked recently. Nick is a very good driver sadly with no job. I can't believe Merc didn't at least find him a factory DTM drive until he can get a race seat somewhere.

However, in answer to the original question - I voted that Schumi should carry on. His speed is improving, no doubt also his knowledge of the tyres.

P5 in Q2 at Silverstone indicates a good improvement. I think one of the main things which is making people question Michael, is that we are all used to him moving forward in races. Now we are seeing him moving backwards, and I can only attribute that to his lack of understanding with the tyres.

I'm not sure if anything like this has been said by any experts, but I'm guessing Schumacher is destroying the tyres a lot quicker than he used to, and quicker than the drivers around him. Thus why we see him being competitive at the start and relatively slow at the end of the race.

His fitness and commitment are obviously still there - and I think we'll see him on the podium before long. Don't discount Rosberg's performances - he is driving very well in a fairly difficult situation.

[woody2goody]

It's all starting to remind me of another famous Michael...

Jordan. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jordan

Read the sections marked 'Second Retirement' and 'Washington Wizards comeback', different sport but the parameters will start to sound awfully familiar...

I sort of agree, but to be fair, in his comeback with Washington, he still averaged 22 PPG, which is roughly the same as what Chris Bosh did this year, and Bosh is in his mid-20s.

I'm sure Schumacher will get into his stride - even if it's inconsistent flashes of his old form, at least we will know that he is still capable of it.

[F1boat]

kimi did not quit.
He was forced out with a golden parachute.
Even I would have taken that deal

I'd love to be forced to do something in that way too, to get several million bucks :)

[i_max2k2]

I think Nico is doing extremely well, but most of his podiums have been more or less chance, and most of Michael bad results have been bad luck as well, I have not seen once when Michael got lucky, would we have be talking about this if he made it to the podium in Spain or Turkey? I just don't think luck has been on his side so far, along with a poor car. He's trying very hard, and sooner than later the results will come too.

[Sonic]

I think Nico is doing extremely well, but most of his podiums have been more or less chance, and most of Michael bad results have been bad luck as well, I have not seen once when Michael got lucky, would we have be talking about this if he made it to the podium in Spain or Turkey? I just don't think luck has been on his side so far, along with a poor car. He's trying very hard, and sooner than later the results will come too.

????

That's a bit disrespectful to Nico who has scored podiums in a car that at best is 3rd fastest on the grid (and that is being VERY generous).

Michael doesn't need luck - he needs more pace.

[ShiftingGears]

????

That's a bit disrespectful to Nico who has scored podiums in a car that at best is 3rd fastest on the grid (and that is being VERY generous).

Michael doesn't need luck - he needs more pace.

I agree. But as long as his presence brings more money than the potential results with Heidfeld would, he ain't going anywhere.

[Sonic]

I agree. But as long as his presence brings more money than the potential results with Heidfeld would, he ain't going anywhere.

Oh I fully agree with you. I voted that he should stay on, IMO as a sort of Patrese to Nico's Mansell if Merc manage to get their acts together next year and produce a world beater.

[wedge]

I agree. But as long as his presence brings more money than the potential results with Heidfeld would, he ain't going anywhere.

Why would anyone want to see a somebody become a nobody?

[ShiftingGears]

Why would anyone want to see a somebody become a nobody?

He's the most successful driver in F1 history, he'll always be a somebody. I'm sure Merc has done their research as to how his performance will affect profit.

[Garry Walker]

and i would like to see a thread called "schumacher will destroy rosberg next season" make a comeback :D

heh, I am looking pretty retarded with that thread.

As a Schumacher fan, his performances have mostly been dissapointing to me. The desire is obviously there, but age seems to have caught up with him too. That said, I hope he gives it another go next year. Obviously, he should and must do better than this season.
Getting outqualifed by Rosberg 2:8 is not acceptable, Rosberg is not that great of a driver.

[AndyL]

I think Nico is doing extremely well, but most of his podiums have been more or less chance, and most of Michael bad results have been bad luck as well, I have not seen once when Michael got lucky, would we have be talking about this if he made it to the podium in Spain or Turkey? I just don't think luck has been on his side so far, along with a poor car. He's trying very hard, and sooner than later the results will come too.

I think that's harsh on Nico. Even if a bit of luck has come his way, he's still had to put himself in the position to take advantage of it. I think he's done that extremely well in, as Sonic said, a car that's at best the 3rd fastest. 4th fastest at many races.

[Retro Formula 1]

I predicted Nico would beat Schumacher as he was not that special when he retired the first time. He's a bit of a whipping boy for the grid at the moment but as long as he doesn't take out his frustration on track, then it's not a problem.

Time isn't going to cure Schumacher because his time in F1 has finished.

[pino]

Being a Ferrari fan, Michael will always be in my heart but, I voted yes because I don't want more humiliations for him...

[Shifter]

I think Michael enjoys a challenge, after all those years of Ferrari being the de-facto #1 car and refuelling strategies and the TC V10's suiting his driving style so well. I recall when the V8's came about there were alot of complaints from drivers, but Schumacher said he "loved the way they drove" even though his results weren't as good.

When you've won it all and usually from P1 on the grid driving away from the field, perhaps he just wants to enjoy fighting for spots like he did in the wet in China.

The only really odd thing is that he's sticking to his multiple-stops strategies when they clearly don't work...stay out of the pits Michael, this isn't France during the refuelling era. Kobayashi looked like a strategical genius compared to Schumacher in Valencia.

[Mia 01]

He´s a yoke.

At some point he will realise that himself.

[ioan]

No he shouldn't quit! He's come back to have some fun.

Exactly!

[Saint Devote]

Schumi has been in every situation under the sun. How quickly people forget.

He entered f1 with a good team and won then looked around for a new challenge.

He went to Ferrari at a time when they were in the doldrums. The first time he drove one of the Berger - Alesi cars he was TWO seconds around the Maranello development-test track quicker.

Show of hands!? How many remember the stress and the trouble and the strife from the Italian press and the tifosi - and Schumi put onhimself when from 1996 to around 1998 I think - there were calls for Todt to be thrown out and questions being asked if even Schumi was actually worth it!

There were other drivers being mentioned as replacements too.

So now we have the current situation. No testing allowed, Schumi stopped racing just as the control tyres were implemented and after three years he returned to a completely different era.

Just look how SMALL tweaks in the regs from 2009 to 2010 have allowed Webber to compete on more equal terms with one of the two quickest drivers in F1, Vettel!

So to criticize or rubbush Schumi is totally to misunderstand or worse, the current situation.

These things take time - give him his time. I remember HOW MANY seasons when even people in racing rubbished Jenson until he was given a decent car.

Schumi is the best development driver in racing EVER. He wil find his "firing solution". And if it looks as if he wil not succeed he will be the first to say so and leave.

Schmacher has not returned - and he has not been signed by Mercedes - to make up numbers or to merely "enjoy himself and have fun".

Schumi had returned to win and he is as determined and serious about it now as he ever was.

It would be totally dishonest and without integrity if this were not the case and the grest driver is not like that at all.

At least I thought that the people on this board would understand where he is and what is going on right now.

[Sonic]

Schumi has been in every situation under the sun. How quickly people forget.

He entered f1 with a good team and won then looked around for a new challenge.

He went to Ferrari at a time when they were in the doldrums. The first time he drove one of the Berger - Alesi cars he was TWO seconds around the Maranello development-test track quicker.

Show of hands!? How many remember the stress and the trouble and the strife from the Italian press and the tifosi - and Schumi put onhimself when from 1996 to around 1998 I think - there were calls for Todt to be thrown out and questions being asked if even Schumi was actually worth it!

There were other drivers being mentioned as replacements too.

So now we have the current situation. No testing allowed, Schumi stopped racing just as the control tyres were implemented and after three years he returned to a completely different era.

Just look how SMALL tweaks in the regs from 2009 to 2010 have allowed Webber to compete on more equal terms with one of the two quickest drivers in F1, Vettel!

So to criticize or rubbush Schumi is totally to misunderstand or worse, the current situation.

These things take time - give him his time. I remember HOW MANY seasons when even people in racing rubbished Jenson until he was given a decent car.

Schumi is the best development driver in racing EVER. He wil find his "firing solution". And if it looks as if he wil not succeed he will be the first to say so and leave.

Schmacher has not returned - and he has not been signed by Mercedes - to make up numbers or to merely "enjoy himself and have fun".

Schumi had returned to win and he is as determined and serious about it now as he ever was.

It would be totally dishonest and without integrity if this were not the case and the grest driver is not like that at all.

At least I thought that the people on this board would understand where he is and what is going on right now.

:rolleyes:

[Saint Devote]

:rolleyes:

You can roll your eyes all you want to, but you cannot refute what I say :D :s mokin:

[i_max2k2]

Exactly!

I really think, down the season, he'll be deciding wdc's fate.

[555-04Q2]

:rolleyes:

I'm not one to normally agree with what Mr Saints posts, but most of what he posted in his last post is true. I don't know why you have to roll your eyes at it.

[scaliwag]

You need a car that can perform to get results, give him a car that can and lets see what happens.

Rosberg would not have been on the podium if Vettel hadn't blown it.

amiman, I do not accept your argument.
Give any one of the top drivers a car that can get results and they will do it, Schumacher made it to the top in F1 with the connivance of Brawn at Benetton.
Benetton's use of illegal traction control was a disgrace.
Schumacher then continued his blatant cheating at Ferrari with Brawn and Todt as his enablers.
Todt, as Ferrari team principal used his position to felicitate the use of the Ferrari veto, and boy did he do so!!!!

The problem with those that eulogize Schumacher is they follow the herd instinct, they whish to associate themselves with a perceived winner, they care not that their hero is a cheat and a fraud.

Yes Schumacher was a very good driver in all forms of motorsport, but by no means was his ability any better than most of the F1 drivers, for my part I hope Rosberg continues to be in the ascendance.

Regards scaliwag.

[Retro Formula 1]

amiman, I do not accept your argument.
Give any one of the top drivers a car that can get results and they will do it, Schumacher made it to the top in F1 with the connivance of Brawn at Benetton.
Benetton's use of illegal traction control was a disgrace.
Schumacher then continued his blatant cheating at Ferrari with Brawn and Todt as his enablers.
Todt, as Ferrari team principal used his position to felicitate the use of the Ferrari veto, and boy did he do so!!!!

The problem with those that eulogize Schumacher is they follow the herd instinct, they whish to associate themselves with a perceived winner, they care not that their hero is a cheat and a fraud.

Yes Schumacher was a very good driver in all forms of motorsport, but by no means was his ability any better than most of the F1 drivers, for my part I hope Rosberg continues to be in the ascendance.

Regards scaliwag.

Phew!!!

You argue some very valid points but I don't think it's fair to Demonize Schumacher. I think that all teams seek to manipulate rules to their benefit but Ferrari and Bennetton were just more efficient. I do think it fair to castigate the FIA and Mad Max for the deliberate slanting of the governing body to favour one team. For years it was denied but at least it's starting to come out in the open and that sorry era has hopefully passed for good.

As for Schumacher, he was just more ruthless on the track. Deliberatly punting people off was disgraceful but he won one championship out of two doing it where he wouldn't have won either, so as long as drivers are allowed to behave like this, the more ruthless will. Many people hold Senna in high regard but he did the same.

Schumacher was the best driver of his era but that era passed a couple of year before he retired. I think he should never have come back but perhaps these days there is elements within F1 that will allow people to race in top teams for gimmick reasons rather than on merit. I see excuses like "he may be slow but he's good for marketing" or " leave him alone, he's only having fun" and feel quite sick. This isn't a friendly little fun run to the coast. This is the pinnacle of Motor Sport and he has just as much right still driving as JYS or Sir Moss if "having a bit of a laugh" is the criteria.

[Roamy]

MS cheating with TC led to his 7 championships. Perhaps not all of them but many of them. The reality is that he is a very good driver but not the best ever as his record indicates. Senna - prost- and others would beat him handily. i hope he stays around til JV gets back and while JV may not have the equip to compete at the top you will get to see the driving ability of both.

[ioan]

MS cheating with TC led to his 7 championships. Perhaps not all of them but many of them.

Maybe you can prove your allegations?
No?!
What a surprise! Not! :rolleyes:

[Shifter]

Schmacher has not returned - and he has not been signed by Mercedes - to make up numbers or to merely "enjoy himself and have fun".

Schumi had returned to win and he is as determined and serious about it now as he ever was.

Perhaps I should have clarified my post in which I stated that Schumacher should not retire and might be having some fun...

What I was getting at was the whole notion of the preseason expectations placed upon him to be right up front, right away. When that didn't happen, many assumed that Schumacher was either a failure or would be unhappy with his comeback, despite claims to the contrary made by the man himself.

I believe Schumacher fully understood that the season could very well play out as it has for him, and that a single season would not equate another WDC. Schumacher now has a car/team to help develop towards success, and in the meantime seems to be having some fun getting in race battles. I believe he will be unhappy if race wins do not eventually come, but for the time being he still has hope for future success.

[Roamy]

Maybe you can prove your allegations?
No?!
What a surprise! Not! :rolleyes:

yea and OJ didn't kill Nicole

we have been through and through this for many years - do you have
memory problems??

[Big Ben]

I voted no because I didn´t think enough. He should stay. The man´s here to correct the statics. Let the man clear the air a bit. So many where fooled to believe he´s the best ever... well not really... not even close actually

[truefan72]

I voted no because I didn´t think enough. He should stay. The man´s here to correct the statics. Let the man clear the air a bit. So many where fooled to believe he´s the best ever... well not really... not even close actually

if jordan laced up his boots today would he be as good as in his prime?
if Zidane were to start playing today, would he be as god as in his prime?

MSC is 41, enjoying life as an F1 driver and still in the process of re-establishing himself. Yes he is past his prime but that does not take away from his accomplishments and yet he is still in the top 10 as we speak. Hardly a reason to quit when clearly 6 cars are faster than yours, and your car is on par with the renaults, force india's and williams. So all things considered. I am ok where he is right now and nothing in his 2nd career takes away from his legendary status.

I expected Rosberg to have the upper hand anyway and had already said a while back that I thought by the end of the year they would be about equal with probably 1 win a piece. We will see about the wins, but lets asses things in November

[rohanweb]

Yes & No :)

Michael should quit because he is regularly getting beaten by his young team mate and he hasnt got that edge to fight with the front running youngsters even he wants to but his body and mind is slower than his ambition on his comeback...

Michael shouldnt quit because F1 has probbaly attracted loads of fans because Michael Schumacher, the importance of Michael being there is great in a way for the F1 bandwagen to do lots of show off about him and attract new sponsors fans media attention to F1, bernie did this with a reason and afterall at each races there is some sweet expectations of wheel to wheel racings dramas while having few champs in the grid is always good.

i am 50/50 here lol

[ioan]

yea and OJ didn't kill Nicole

we have been through and through this for many years - do you have
memory problems??

What a surprise, you can't prove your allegations. What now?!

[ioan]

I voted no because I didn´t think enough. He should stay. The man´s here to correct the statics. Let the man clear the air a bit. So many where fooled to believe he´s the best ever... well not really... not even close actually

:laugh:

What a load...

You still believe Alonso is the greatest, don't you! :rotflmao:

[Saint Devote]

I voted no because I didn´t think enough. He should stay. The man´s here to correct the statics. Let the man clear the air a bit. So many where fooled to believe he´s the best ever... well not really... not even close actually

Who the best ever is a very personal idea - but you really dont believe that he is "not even close"? Do you?

I really urge you to read about him. It was not easy for him to get to f1 and, the amount of application and dedication and determination to do what he did FOR YEARS is staggering.

It was not accidental or "lucky". It was the application of logic and reason directed by a very highly skilled driving ability.

What do the truly great drivers have in common? 99% of other drivers that drive THEIR cars, declare the vehicle undriveable. That is their ability.

People may disagree whether Schumi or Fangio or Clark or Prost or Senna - perhaps there about ten of them, are the GREATEST, but they ALL belong in that group.

[Roamy]

When is mr great going to start beating rosberg ioan?

[Ari]

YES.

I love him and all he's done for the prancing horse, but yes.

[Big Ben]

:laugh:

What a load...

You still believe Alonso is the greatest, don't you! :rotflmao:

I don't know what Alonso has to do with this. I don't think he's the greatest. I believe there's no way one could say who's the greatest ever. That's just a stupid thing fanboys would say about their idols. Please stop with these ridiculous reactions and this my boy against your boy attitude. I've told you more than once that I don't share your passion for any driver

[Big Ben]

Who the best ever is a very personal idea - but you really dont believe that he is "not even close"? Do you?


yes, i do. we've seen last year that a mediocre driver (don't take it personally) can win a wdc in a dominant car. The cars MS drove made him look much better than he actually was... remember those people saying that he could win in a Minardi?

[ArrowsFA1]

What do the truly great drivers have in common? 99% of other drivers that drive THEIR cars, declare the vehicle undriveable. That is their ability.
I've heard that said about Schumacher (Berger & Alesi being noteable examples), but who else? I don't recall it being said about Fangio, Clark, Prost or Senna.

[555-04Q2]

When is mr great going to start beating rosberg ioan?

Still avoiding the proof question I see. Empty barrels make the most...

[Retro Formula 1]

yes, i do. we've seen last year that a mediocre driver (don't take it personally) can win a wdc in a dominant car. The cars MS drove made him look much better than he actually was... remember those people saying that he could win in a Minardi?

Interesting point. What makes a good driver?

Button proved last year that he could drive a good car to be WDC. He certainly didn't have the best car all year but the Brawn was superior for the first 4 or 5 races. Perhaps not to the extent that the Red Bull is this year but it had an advantage over the rest of the field.

To win the Championship, he first had to beat his team mate who is considered a good driver and one that on occassions bested Schumacher in his prime.

Now we have Button against Hamilton and we see that although he may not have the out and out raw pace of Hamilton (and we need to consider he has started in a brand new car where Lewis has had years to get used to the McLaren), his guile and race craft, couples with his exquisite control and strategy in the wet, means he is a small step from leading the world championship from his team mate.

I'm not some fanboy of Jensons although I have supported him for years but judge him on his results. For a mediocre driver, he's not doing too bad is the 2nd fastest car out there (at best).

Then compare his performance with a Mr Schumacher who recently claimed the Mercedes is the 3rd fastest car (argueable but Rosberg is getting results I suppose) and you really must admit that being mediocre is much better than being considered the best driver of all time (yada, yada) as far as results go.

[CNR]

with mercedes owning 40 % of mclaren will mercedes be allowed to transferred any of the parts to next year's mercedes car ?

[Big Ben]

Interesting point. What makes a good driver?

Button proved last year that he could drive a good car to be WDC. He certainly didn't have the best car all year but the Brawn was superior for the first 4 or 5 races. Perhaps not to the extent that the Red Bull is this year but it had an advantage over the rest of the field.

To win the Championship, he first had to beat his team mate who is considered a good driver and one that on occassions bested Schumacher in his prime.

Now we have Button against Hamilton and we see that although he may not have the out and out raw pace of Hamilton (and we need to consider he has started in a brand new car where Lewis has had years to get used to the McLaren), his guile and race craft, couples with his exquisite control and strategy in the wet, means he is a small step from leading the world championship from his team mate.

I'm not some fanboy of Jensons although I have supported him for years but judge him on his results. For a mediocre driver, he's not doing too bad is the 2nd fastest car out there (at best).

Then compare his performance with a Mr Schumacher who recently claimed the Mercedes is the 3rd fastest car (argueable but Rosberg is getting results I suppose) and you really must admit that being mediocre is much better than being considered the best driver of all time (yada, yada) as far as results go.

JB is a good driver but there are quite a few that seem to be better.

Maybe I'm wrong but IMO JB stands no chance against LH. You call it strategy I call it gamble. I think JB was given enough credit for those races. It's time to start beating his team mate in normal conditions too.

[Roamy]

Still avoiding the proof question I see. Empty barrels make the most...

Been there done that - The Schumi Idols have their heads so far up his ass they can't read.

you can try google however!!

[ioan]

When is mr great going to start beating rosberg ioan?

I will wait and see when he starts beating Rosberg regularly, he already beat him this season in a few races.

Just be patient.

[ioan]

Been there done that - The Schumi Idols have their heads so far up his ass they can't read.

you can try google however!!

No offense but you obviously don't know what 'idol' means.

[ioan]

I don't know what Alonso has to do with this. I don't think he's the greatest. I believe there's no way one could say who's the greatest ever. That's just a stupid thing fanboys would say about their idols. Please stop with these ridiculous reactions and this my boy against your boy attitude. I've told you more than once that I don't share your passion for any driver

Another load...
There is always a way to do everything, you just have to try hard enough.
Or maybe you prefer believing that there is no way, given that the only objective way are the numbers and the result is not to your liking?!

[Big Ben]

Another load...
There is always a way to do everything, you just have to try hard enough.
Or maybe you prefer believing that there is no way, given that the only objective way are the numbers and the result is not to your liking?!



"[Gross national product] counts air pollution and cigarette advertising, and ambulances to clear our highways of carnage. It counts special locks for our doors and the jails for the people who break them. It counts the destruction of the redwood and the loss of our natural wonder in chaotic sprawl. It counts napalm and counts nuclear warheads and armored cars for the police to fight the riots in our cities. It counts Whitman's rifle and Speck's knife, and the television programs which glorify violence in order to sell toys to our children. Yet the gross national product does not allow for the health of our children, the quality of their education or the joy of their play. It does not include the beauty of our poetry or the strength of our marriages, the intelligence of our public debate or the integrity of our public officials. It measures neither our wit nor our courage, neither our wisdom nor our learning, neither our compassion nor our devotion to our country, it measures everything in short, except that which makes life worthwhile. "


by your logic if MS had droped dead in 1996 he would have been a worse driver... please try to understand a little... count to a hundred and then start typing

[Saint Devote]

yes, i do. we've seen last year that a mediocre driver (don't take it personally) can win a wdc in a dominant car. The cars MS drove made him look much better than he actually was... remember those people saying that he could win in a Minardi?

I dont think I will respond further to such nonsense.

[Saint Devote]

When will Schumi beat Rosberg?

He beat him at Shanghai, Catalunya and Istanbul Park . In addition that Schumi has had issues such as a slow pit stop for example that cost him dearly and the screw-up in Valencia by the team.

This is adriver that has returned after a 3 season retirement to a NEW ERA of control tyres and no testing racing against drivers where hundreths of a second can make a hero one minute look like zero the next.

And you look at Schumi's performance in such a short period and have the audacity to sneer at him?

You ought to be ashamed of yourself for not only expecting the mystical but for not knowing better.

Anyone that has been prepared to take time to understand who Schumi is and HOW he works would agree that he is doing fine and is dialling everything in.

You know, I remember the days of Prost when he would throughout practice and at the start of qualifying be no better than mid-grid. He would be criticized - look how slow and so on while the others ...... Get the picture.

Then he would suddenly be up to speed. Those who understood how Prost worked, HAD to work - who he is - never criticized.

It is the ignorant that slam Schumi and in return I pick up a metaphorical Ferrari and throw it at them!

[Big Ben]

I dont think I will respond further to such nonsense.

That's fine by me, I don't have time to read your novels

[ArrowsFA1]

You know, I remember the days of Prost when he would throughout practice and at the start of qualifying be no better than mid-grid...
Prost qualifying mid-grid was a race occurence. In his rookie year maybe, but after that you can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times he was outside the top ten.

Prost was often slower than Senna in qualifying, but that still invariably meant he was on the first couple of rows of the grid. But you're right that when faced with the speed of Senna at McLaren he concentrated on his race pace during qualifying and that often served him well come Sunday. In fact, he has more fastest race laps than anyone except Schumacher.

You might argue that Schumi had adopted Prost's approach - he's been comprehensively outqualified by Rosberg - if he had produced the race pace and results, but he hasn't.

[ShiftingGears]

You might argue that Schumi had adopted Prost's approach - he's been comprehensively outqualified by Rosberg - if he had produced the race pace and results, but he hasn't.

I wouldn't call it an approach by Prost - Senna was just the more rapid of the two. And that shows in qualifying much more than the race, where superior racecraft can even the odds.

[wedge]

Senna wanted to be quickest full stop. Prost was better in races. Race car set up was his forte. Up against Senna as his team mate it was he, afterall, who came up with a silly idea that whoever led the race at the first corner should go on to win the race.

The greats transcend the car, they out drive it more consistantly than most. Schumi has 'lost' this ability.

[maximilian]

YES. Even though I was the "first" to predict his return with Mercedes, and excited about it, I think by now it's clear that this is not happening. There are too many good drivers out there who would deserve a ride and arguably do just as well, or even considerably better. So please, vacate. And let's forget this little episode ever happened.

[truefan72]

I wouldn't call it an approach by Prost - Senna was just the more rapid of the two. And that shows in qualifying much more than the race, where superior racecraft can even the odds.

yes but qualifying isn't the race, being brilliant over one lap is not a sign of greatness or having the measure of your teammate, it is what you do on a sunday that counts the most and in that regard prost has the edge over senna.

Senna was a flat out all the time kind of guy, where as Prost earned the name "the professor" for his excellent racecraft and his understanding that GP's are not won or lost on saturday's. Ibn that era of being able to set up your car all weekend, post qualy and sunday morning with the pre race session, Prost became the master of racecraft

[truefan72]

Senna wanted to be quickest full stop. Prost was better in races. Race car set up was his forte. Up against Senna as his team mate it was he, afterall, who came up with a silly idea that whoever led the race at the first corner should go on to win the race.

The greats transcend the car, they out drive it more consistantly than most. Schumi has 'lost' this ability.

greatness is what you achieved in F1 and not hinged on the slightly diminished form at the tail end of one's career. Yes some folks think MSC is tarnishing his legend by returning to F1 and not dominating,but I still think it is too early to judge that. If he sticks around for next year and Mercedes get things sorted out, he might yet have a few wins left in him. If he decides to hang it up at the end of the year, I would not view this year as an embarrassment or blot on his career, but rather as an icon coming back for one last taste of the F1 life and this time around driving as one of the guys on the grid rather than the pressure and expectations of winning the WDC. I think MSC is quite enjoying himself this year, despite what some may think of him.

[ShiftingGears]

yes but qualifying isn't the race, being brilliant over one lap is not a sign of greatness or having the measure of your teammate, it is what you do on a sunday that counts the most and in that regard prost has the edge over senna.

Well yes and no. Clearly what happens on a sunday is what counts the most, and in 1989, in races where both McLaren drivers finished, Senna finished ahead of Prost 7 times out of 8. When both drivers finished races in 1988, Senna also finished higher than Prost more often. So to suggest Prost was better on race day would be a questionable claim.


For me, Schumacher's defensive driving is something the younger drivers could learn a thing or two from this year. For me it has clearly been his strongest point considering that his outright pace has never been intimidating to rival teams thus far.

[ioan]

When will Schumi beat Rosberg?

He beat him at Shanghai, Catalunya and Istanbul Park .

And Monaco!

[ioan]

Prost qualifying mid-grid was a race occurence. In his rookie year maybe, but after that you can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times he was outside the top ten.

He specified that it was a t the beginning of the qualifying not at the end. It is so easy to jump to conclusions without first reading the posts carefully.

[Roamy]

When will Schumi beat Rosberg?

He beat him at Shanghai, Catalunya and Istanbul Park . In addition that Schumi has had issues such as a slow pit stop for example that cost him dearly and the screw-up in Valencia by the team.

This is adriver that has returned after a 3 season retirement to a NEW ERA of control tyres and no testing racing against drivers where hundreths of a second can make a hero one minute look like zero the next.

And you look at Schumi's performance in such a short period and have the audacity to sneer at him?

You ought to be ashamed of yourself for not only expecting the mystical but for not knowing better.

Anyone that has been prepared to take time to understand who Schumi is and HOW he works would agree that he is doing fine and is dialling everything in.

You know, I remember the days of Prost when he would throughout practice and at the start of qualifying be no better than mid-grid. He would be criticized - look how slow and so on while the others ...... Get the picture.

Then he would suddenly be up to speed. Those who understood how Prost worked, HAD to work - who he is - never criticized.

It is the ignorant that slam Schumi and in return I pick up a metaphorical Ferrari and throw it at them!

I was just going off the fact everyone expected JV to beat Alonso after 3 races. They call him sh!t for not doing so.

Are we on the double standard
Yes I think so - Villeneuve does not cheat
If you can't handle reality then sobeit.

[ArrowsFA1]

He specified that it was at the beginning of the qualifying not at the end.
Yes, I'm well aware of that ioan. The point I was making, in response to SD raising the subject of Alain Prost, was that until Senna arrived at McLaren Prost had been top dog and, more often then not, quicker than his team-mates. The same goes for Michael Schumacher throughout his career.

Senna made clear his intent to beat Prost, who he saw as the best driver in F1 at the time. In the same team and the same car Senna's view was by beating the best he would be seen as the best. Prost soon saw this, and soon realised there wasn't much point trying to beat Senna in qualifying; much better to focus on his own race pace. Timesheets during practice and qualifying weren't his main concern.

Now, relating this to Michael Schumacher's return, I was wondering if Michael may have realised that it was unlikely, after three years away and given his age, he was going to beat his team-mate on Saturday. So, my theory goes, he would work more on race pace than qualifying speed. That would go some way to explaining Nico's dominance in qualifying.

In other words Schumacher, like Prost, recognised his limitations but directed his considerable talent in another direction. That approach worked for Prost in 1989, but it is not working for Michael Schumacher.

[ioan]

MS to stay in 2011:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85423

[Saint Devote]

Prost qualifying mid-grid was a race occurence. In his rookie year maybe, but after that you can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times he was outside the top ten.

Prost was often slower than Senna in qualifying, but that still invariably meant he was on the first couple of rows of the grid. But you're right that when faced with the speed of Senna at McLaren he concentrated on his race pace during qualifying and that often served him well come Sunday. In fact, he has more fastest race laps than anyone except Schumacher.

You might argue that Schumi had adopted Prost's approach - he's been comprehensively outqualified by Rosberg - if he had produced the race pace and results, but he hasn't.

I did not mean to infer that he qualified mid-grid - just that he would be around mid-grid during qualifying while the other top drivers would be already vying for pole. Then he would be ready and suddenly be in the top two.

Yes, he did concentrate on his race pace and where Senna has the much higher pole position score, Prost has the much higher fastest lap score.

I think that Schumi is still trying to fathom a solution to the rules as they are. But really with so many media people attacking him and all the sensationalist stories being published - where is the proper journalist that will respectfully sit down with the great champion and ask serious sensible questions for people like myself who are really IINTERESTED in what Schumi is doing and would honestly be delighted to see him succeed.

I really do hope that this is a great German Grand Prix weekend for him. It would just be mega for motor racing - in my view ALL people that truly love this sport would be pleased.

[Saint Devote]

The greats transcend the car, they out drive it more consistantly than most. Schumi has 'lost' this ability.

It is not possible anymore to do that - in the traditional sense - and has not been for a long time.

When Schumi won he had spent THREE years developing it at a time when as much testing as desired was allowed - remember all those weeks and months he spent at Fiorano, actually moving into the Enzo premises and living at the track? The midnight trips to the town to buy pizza for the whole team as they analyzed the day's results - then up at 5am amd back to testing?

In addition he had Bridgestone trying to cater to his every request and with the tyre war the competition was great having tyres on the limit.

If Schumi is trying to mould the car to what he wants then it WILL be difficult to get to the psoition so many are already expecting.

That is why it is important to speak to Schumi to hear what he says. Change comes slowly these days without testing. I know it can be difficult to understand for many people, but it is conceivable that Schumi is actually doing BETTER than Rosberg - which is why he is also looking to begin working on the 2011 car. Rosberg drives but Schumi also develops the car.

I say that Schumi is using 2010 as his test session and the proper phase of his return only begins in 2011.

This is Schumacher and that is how he works - as does Brawn - based on logic and reason, step by step.

[Tazio]

greatness is what you achieved in F1 and not hinged on the slightly diminished form at the tail end of one's career. Yes some folks think MSC is tarnishing his legend by returning to F1 and not dominating,but I still think it is too early to judge that. If he sticks around for next year and Mercedes get things sorted out, he might yet have a few wins left in him. If he decides to hang it up at the end of the year, I would not view this year as an embarrassment or blot on his career, but rather as an icon coming back for one last taste of the F1 life and this time around driving as one of the guys on the grid rather than the pressure and expectations of winning the WDC. I think MSC is quite enjoying himself this year, despite what some may think of him.I find myself agreeing with you yet again (which is odd ;) )
I've taken some shots at Mike, but only with the knowledge that it cannot diminish what he has already achieved. I know there are a lot of F1 enthusiasts that would like to think that this season will diminish what he has already done, but it can't. Only a tabloid mentality will view it that way. Some who wanted to see him succeed, and some that do not. Check the record book then think about it. That's what people will remember about him in the long run. That is why I can have a little fun posting jibes at him. I know what his legacy will be.
And as TF stated I think Mike is having fun being back!

[Big Ben]

I find myself agreeing with you yet again (which is odd ;) )
I've taken some shots at Mike, but only with the knowledge that it cannot diminish what he has already achieved. I know there are a lot of F1 enthusiasts that would like to think that this season will diminish what he has already done, but it can't. Only a tabloid mentality will view it that way. Some who wanted to see him succeed, and some that do not. Check the record book then think about it. That's what people will remember about him in the long run. That is why I can have a little fun posting jibes at him. I know what his legacy will be.
And as TF stated I think Mike is having fun being back!

So true. Only people like Ioan would jump to that kind of conclusions

[truefan72]

I find myself agreeing with you yet again (which is odd ;) )
I've taken some shots at Mike, but only with the knowledge that it cannot diminish what he has already achieved. I know there are a lot of F1 enthusiasts that would like to think that this season will diminish what he has already done, but it can't. Only a tabloid mentality will view it that way. Some who wanted to see him succeed, and some that do not. Check the record book then think about it. That's what people will remember about him in the long run. That is why I can have a little fun posting jibes at him. I know what his legacy will be.
And as TF stated I think Mike is having fun being back!

yep, good post.
And the funny thing is, I have never been an MSC fan and was about as distant as one could be towards his team and person during his first career. i find myself surprised and confused as to why I seem to defend him and realized that with time and perspective, like him or not, the guy is the greatest F1 driver and a quick wiki read usually leaves you resistantly in awe of his staggering records. So perhaps the fact that I am old enough to have seen all his races ( except for the ones i turned off out of sheer boredom) as well as seeing someone slightly older trying to play with the young guns, leaves me just that bit more sympathetic to his cause. http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/images/icons/spin2.gif

[Mia 01]

Nico is still beating him, a driver who hasn´t got a win still.

MS needs to work hard.

[Big Ben]

Sound advice.
I'm sure if any Mercedes personel are reading this, they'll be sure to pass that message on.

easy big fellow.... she´s only nine

[Saint Devote]

I don't think Schumi cares any more about "tarnishing" anything than did Niki Lauda who gave all his trophies away on the Monday and cared little about the race that was just won or run.

Schumi's record stands and it remains magnificent.

And the unwillingness of those who refuse to even begin to understand Schumacher is just pathetic.

It was nice to see Pedro De La Rosa jump to the German driver's defense to try and explain what those who constantly attack Schumi do not want to know.

Give it up Pedro - the Schumi detractors suffer from the condition of Schadenfreude and they never welcomed his success when he reigned supreme in the world of f1.

[Saint Devote]

Sound advice.
I'm sure if any Mercedes personel are reading this, they'll be sure to pass that message on.

What?! No smiley face accompanying your facetiousness as you attack Mia :eek:

[Tazio]

I don't think Schumi cares any more about "tarnishing" anything than did Niki Lauda who gave all his trophies away on the Monday and cared little about the race that was just won or run.

Schumi's record stands and it remains magnificent.

And the unwillingness of those who refuse to even begin to understand Schumacher is just pathetic.

It was nice to see Pedro De La Rosa jump to the German driver's defense to try and explain what those who constantly attack Schumi do not want to know.

Give it up Pedro - the Schumi detractors suffer from the condition of Schadenfreude and they never welcomed his success when he reigned supreme in the world of f1.
Well stated old chum! :up:

[ioan]

I don't think Schumi cares any more about "tarnishing" anything than did Niki Lauda who gave all his trophies away on the Monday and cared little about the race that was just won or run.

Schumi's record stands and it remains magnificent.

And the unwillingness of those who refuse to even begin to understand Schumacher is just pathetic.

It was nice to see Pedro De La Rosa jump to the German driver's defense to try and explain what those who constantly attack Schumi do not want to know.

Give it up Pedro - the Schumi detractors suffer from the condition of Schadenfreude and they never welcomed his success when he reigned supreme in the world of f1.

:up:

What's even funnier is how people were protecting the Baddoer last year when he was last while Kimi won the race and some of the same people now are lashing out at MS when he is beaten by 0.008 seconds by his team mate. :crazy:

[Zico]

"Michael Schumacher has called the ban on in-season testing "ridiculous" after Mercedes struggled in qualifying for the German Grand Prix.
Schumacher qualified 11th, two places behind team-mate Nico Rosberg after failing to get to grips with the effect of running with a modified diffuser.
"It is completely ridiculous to do zero [testing]," said Schumacher.
"Some kind of testing should be implemented. I hope there is common sense and we find a solution."
Mercedes had arrived at their home race in Hockenheim with a modification to their exhaust blown diffuser and a new rear wing.

Mercedes didn't meet expectation - Schumacher

However, Schumacher, Rosberg and team principal Ross Brawn admitted they could not make the latest upgrades work, especially as the wet running on Friday hampered evaluation.
Both drivers blamed inconsistencies with their cars for the disappointing qualifying display at their home race, but Schumacher made it clear he believes the testing ban is severely restricting the team's chances of catching Red Bull, McLaren and Ferrari in the development race.
"Certainly we are disappointed," stated Schumacher. "Our expectation was to be about fifth or sixth.
"We were not close enough to this and there are reasons.
"If you don't have aerodynamic features - like the F-duct or the exhaust blown diffuser - then you want to implement them, so you develop them at home, build them on to the car and test them on the race weekend," explained Schumacher, who was used to unlimited testing in his previous Formula 1 career.

JONATHAN LEGARD BLOG
Schumacher's enthusiasm, commitment, knowledge and determination remain as sharp as ever but the whole racing package is not at its previous peak
"Naturally, you have very little time and you end up in some compromises.
"It's a tough way to fight your way through the development, but as a consequence here and there you have some issues.
"I understand why we have ended up where we are right now, but as it was ridiculous to do 90,000 kilometres more during the year of testing it is completely ridiculous to do zero."
Rosberg squeezed into the final qualifying session in 10th but could barely improve with ninth place.
"The car was definitely inconsistent throughout the weekend," said the 25-year-old German, who had appeared to make a step forward after taking third last time out in Silverstone.
"Going into qualifying my balance and my grip level on the rear changed a lot. I had a lot of oversteer and I couldn't do much about it.

Mercedes performance flummoxes Brawn

"It took me by surprise a little bit - I didn't see it coming after free practice."
With a two-week shutdown looming in August, when teams are banned from working on the development of their cars, Brawn wants to use every opportunity to find out why the team are struggling to find extra performance from their updates.
"We have quite a lot of new parts on the cars this weekend and it looks like there may be something there with the floor," said Brawn.
"We will be working hard between now and [next weekend's race in] Hungary to understand the system and to make improvements.
"We are seeing some differences in the behaviour of the car and that is aggravating the understanding of the tyres.
"There have been little windows this weekend when the car has looked OK but when it came to qualifying a number of cars moved away from us quite strongly."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8851935.stm

It reminds me how important testing was to him. Am I correct in remembering that he used to test far more than anyone else when at Ferrari? and could this be one of the main reasons he has lost the edge he previously had now that the playing field has been levelled with his team mate?

[ShiftingGears]

It reminds me how important testing was to him. Am I correct in remembering that he used to test far more than anyone else when at Ferrari? and could this be one of the main reasons he has lost the edge he previously had now that the playing field has been levelled with his team mate?

There are a lot of things not to Schumachers liking as far as the car regulations go, and a lot less he can do about it, thanks to the testing ban.

[markabilly]

"Michael Schumacher has called the ban on in-season testing "ridiculous" after Mercedes struggled in qualifying for the German Grand Prix.




It reminds me how important testing was to him. Am I correct in remembering that he used to test far more than anyone else when at Ferrari? and could this be one of the main reasons he has lost the edge he previously had now that the playing field has been levelled with his team mate?
Testing testing and more testing....

after all this cut costing that did away with testing, there are now mega supercomputers, with mega numbers of engineers, and windtunnels, doing all the work....if they really wanted to cut costs, they should ban all wind tunnels and supercomputers

I read somewhere that the work force at Brawn is limited to less than 400 by big boss mercedes who want the team to be a profit center and make money for the big boss.....400 sounds like a lot, but not compared to MacLaren or Ferrari

[veeten]

Well, if this weekend's events are a major barometer, it is high time for Herr Schumacher to take that well-deserved long vacation.

You're past it, boy. Face facts... :s

[BDunnell]

Of course, it's up to him, not external observers, but what I find puzzling is the manner in which he seems willing to accept being second-best or worse. This is not the Schumacher we know of old.

[Retro Formula 1]

I predicted Nico would beat Schumacher as he was not that special when he retired the first time. He's a bit of a whipping boy for the grid at the moment but as long as he doesn't take out his frustration on track, then it's not a problem.

Time isn't going to cure Schumacher because his time in F1 has finished.

Unfortunately, his frustrations are starting to appear on track now.

He's slow and dangerous like an old wounded Tiger.

Time to revoke his Licence.

[truefan72]

terrible incident with rubens and I think it merits some kind of grid place penalty for the next race.

But finishing 11th in a race with a car that is obviously ( and I can hardly beleive what I am saying) no match for the Williams right now is not exactly a terrible job worthy of immediate retirement.

It is obvious the car is not that competitive, and seemingly getting less so with every race, so its hard to know how much of it is him and how much of it is the car. I still say wait till the end of the year and probably give him another. Even Yamamoto driving a RBR, Ferrari, or mclaren would be finishing in the points and maybe winning a race or two. If MSC was in any of those cars, we would all be having a different discussion.

[ioan]

Unfortunately, his frustrations are starting to appear on track now.

He's slow and dangerous like an old wounded Tiger.

Time to revoke his Licence.

You've got a grudge with him, obviously. First you accuse him of trying to kill Rubens, then you ask for his license to be revoked.
What about Webber, Trulli or DC who in recent years failed to decapitate their direct competitors a few times each?!

MS did a dangerous move today and he has to be/was punished, however he didn't do it out of carelessness or lack of control.

PS: Don't know why but you remind me of an old 'friend' around here, he used to call himself Knock-on. He also hated MS like you do. ;)

[BDunnell]

terrible incident with rubens and I think it merits some kind of grid place penalty for the next race.

But finishing 11th in a race with a car that is obviously ( and I can hardly beleive what I am saying) no match for the Williams right now is not exactly a terrible job worthy of immediate retirement.

I agree, but what we are seeing is a driver displaying none of the positive attributes of what made him great in the first place. What is there to praise about that?

[Saint Devote]

Unfortunately, his frustrations are starting to appear on track now.

He's slow and dangerous like an old wounded Tiger.

Time to revoke his Licence.

Steady on there - somewhat over the top auld boy!

This was no different to the incident between Webber and Alonso at the Nurgurgring last year.

All this gnashing of teeth, wailing and predictions of dire consequences by so many is quite funny actually.

[Chaparral66]

Michael Schumacher has always been my guy, and he's still one of the greatest to slap on an F1 car -- but what he did today with Rubens was just stupid, and dangerous.

[Mia 01]

After what I saw today, well, he could be forced out of F1.

[stephenw_us]

:rolleyes:

[Valve Bounce]

I agree, but what we are seeing is a driver displaying none of the positive attributes of what made him great in the first place. What is there to praise about that?

"The Williams driver said it was the worst defensive driving he had ever seen and reckons Schumacher was "carrying something from the past" in the move."

I think that just about sums it up perfectly.

[Saint Devote]

"The Williams driver said it was the worst defensive driving he had ever seen and reckons Schumacher was "carrying something from the past" in the move."

I think that just about sums it up perfectly.

It is Barrichello with the BIG CHIP on his shoulder.

But the Brazilian is also a hypocrite. He praises Ayrton Senna yet accuses Schumacher :D

I wonder of Rubens sticks pins into pictures of Michael Schumacher muttering like the Chief Inspector does at Inspector Clouseau?

[Valve Bounce]

It is Barrichello with the BIG CHIP on his shoulder.

But the Brazilian is also a hypocrite. He praises Ayrton Senna yet accuses Schumacher :D

I wonder of Rubens sticks pins into pictures of Michael Schumacher muttering like the Chief Inspector does at Inspector Clouseau?

No!

But there's this guy here who fits the bill.

[Roamy]

MS is a POS

pure and simple - overrated cheater

[truefan72]

I agree, but what we are seeing is a driver displaying none of the positive attributes of what made him great in the first place. What is there to praise about that?

i am trying to be objective and take my emotions about his borderline criminal act in today's race out of the equation. purely on results its is clear that the williams is a much faster car,as is the renault, mclaren, ferrari and RBR's. the dfference in performance was quite shocking imo. So yes, he is an arse, yes the move was despicable, but he was never going to hold that position. I am not praising him, simply stating the fact that coming home 11'th with that car is about as good as it gets for them right now.

Rosberg is better than him right now, but you also race against 24 other cars as well.

[Jag_Warrior]

I grew to really dislike Schumacher after he tried to take out Villeneuve. But even I find it rather depressing to see him going on like this. I don't like him, but I did respect his talents. Now he's beginning to look more like an aging prize fighter, who has become too slow with his punches and has to resort to low blows during every match.

It's too early to completely count him out. But this is far from the same guy who retired three years ago.

[jannyboyy]

Well i think he never should have come back. He is ruining his reputation

[ArrowsFA1]

Interesting to see Ross Brawn's comments regarding Schumacher's problems with the tyres. It's not as if his issue with the 2010 tyres hasn't been brought up before but Ross is clearly wondering about 2011:

"...Michael's talents are an aggressive-style car that is on the edge of stability and controlling it there. I don't think these tyres reward such an approach, so it will be interesting next year to see what Pirelli come up with."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85823

If the Pirellis don't suit Michael in 2011 then what :confused:

[Valve Bounce]

Interesting to see Ross Brawn's comments regarding Schumacher's problems with the tyres. It's not as if his issue with the 2010 tyres hasn't been brought up before but Ross is clearly wondering about 2011:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85823

If the Pirellis don't suit Michael in 2011 then what :confused:

Costco are selling Michelins at a big discount for the next two weeks.

[Caroline]

It's too early to completely count him out. But this is far from the same guy who retired three years ago.

I agree, even Schumacher can have more than one chance. But it is hard to cheer for someone who doesn't have respect for what others are doing on the track.

[markabilly]

Interesting to see Ross Brawn's comments regarding Schumacher's problems with the tyres. It's not as if his issue with the 2010 tyres hasn't been brought up before but Ross is clearly wondering about 2011:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85823

If the Pirellis don't suit Michael in 2011 then what :confused:
Front tyres design hurting Schumacher

per this headline, they take the car in the direction towards where he turns the wheel..... :D


WTH is wrong with bridgestone??? Seriously,

They know their man is back so the tires should be adjusted accordingly just for him, like in the good ole days.........

[djparky]

I'm not a fan of Schumi so was delighted to see the back of him in 2006, and aside from the "buzz" I can't really see why he bothered to come back this year

the Mercedes is an average car, he's been soundly beaten by his team mate and some of the other youngsters simply aren't afraid of him anymore.

Schumi's success in the past was built on endless testing until he had a significant car advantage and be-spoke Bridgestone tyres- there is limited testing (which he has been bleating about) and it's a single tyre formula so he won't get that advantage back either

his fitness levels may be amazing, but I still question whether the speed is still there to compete with the top drivers in F1- it's really a question of how long it is until he gets fed up qualifying 15th every other week

[stephenw_us]

MS is a POS

pure and simple - overrated cheater

Do all y'all feel better now? Three weeks of hating on Ferrari and Schumacher, is that cathartic enough for the Nanny State? Let's start another thread about how Ferrari and Schumacher are the scum of the earth so the forum can "heal"l some more...

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Cooper_S]

MS is a POS


That's 7 time WDC, 91 GP winning PoS to you... and don't you forget it. ;)

[Cooper_S]

Should Michael quit ?

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b165/bmw_modeller/Forum%20LOGOs/Other%20Stuff/NO.jpg

[Chaparral66]

Cooper_S? I think you should quit beating around the bush and come and say what you think, don't sugar coat it. :)

[Cooper_S]

LOL... I'm not saying he should not retire (again) but he shouldn't quit.

I was surprised at the announcement he was returning at all and flabbergasted it was potentially for 3 years... I reckoned on a win or bust year... and then he'd be happy to retire.

Seems he has not had his fill yet.

[Chaparral66]

LOL... I'm not saying he should not retire (again) but he shouldn't quit.

I was surprised at the announcement he was returning at all and flabbergasted it was potentially for 3 years... I reckoned on a win or bust year... and then he'd be happy to retire.

Seems he has not had his fill yet.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad he came back. But he should be properly punished for almost wrecking Rubens. That said, I am sure it's the car and not MS as much, it's a new team for cryin' out loud. But I think they will get it sorted out and I look for him to make something happen this year, and certainly next year.

[Eunos]

Frankly, I think Schumacher has outstayed his Welcome in Formula 1 now..

Should have stayed Retired..

Honestly i don't think it's gonna get any easier for him.

Fact off the matter is of he called it quits now, He still has his 91 Wins, 7 World Titles etc. We will just remember it as the Unsuccesful return.

Im getting tired off Ross Brawn and Norbert Haug making up excuses all the time, Call it a day Schuey.. or atleast go do GT or DTM or something if you wish to continue racing :p :

[Saint Devote]

Frankly, I think Schumacher has outstayed his Welcome in Formula 1 now..

Should have stayed Retired..

Honestly i don't think it's gonna get any easier for him.

Fact off the matter is of he called it quits now, He still has his 91 Wins, 7 World Titles etc. We will just remember it as the Unsuccesful return.

Im getting tired off Ross Brawn and Norbert Haug making up excuses all the time, Call it a day Schuey.. or atleast go do GT or DTM or something if you wish to continue racing :p :

So you demand that SCHUMI - his nickname is NOT "Schuey" - that is a British invention and it is incorrect, he is GERMAN!

If you think that he should go then clearly you have to include the real no-hoper, time waster and over the hill master such as Jarno Trulli.

Its great to have Schumi back and it is also clear you have no idea what f1 is like today compared to a time when testing was permitted and no control tyres were around. The people he competes against have had three years to learn the tyres and dial the car in.

Schumi has outqualified and outraced Rosberg - ROSBERG not some back of the grid time waster - several times this year. Several times he has suffered mechanical woes as well as BAD pitwork and calls.

His comeback is not a failure - and the ONLY entity that knows fully what is going on is the one that pays the bills - MERCEDES.

Until they say GO or until he decides he does not want to race anymore then that is all thats important or relevant.

[henners88]

So you demand that SCHUMI - his nickname is NOT "Schuey" - that is a British invention and it is incorrect, he is GERMAN!

The first 4 years of Michael's F1 career were spent in England and his nickname 'Schuey' came from that period. You are in no position to state whether a nickname is correct or not and if it is used widely enough, its correct. In alot of circumstances a person doesn't have any say in what they are referred to as in any case.. ;)

[Valve Bounce]

The first 4 years of Michael's F1 career were spent in England and his nickname 'Schuey' came from that period. You are in no position to state whether a nickname is correct or not and if it is used widely enough, its correct. In alot of circumstances a person doesn't have any say in what they are referred to as in any case.. ;)

Excuse me, but who gives a damn what he insists is correct or otherwise. I don't.

[harsha]

Excuse me, but who gives a damn what he insists is correct or otherwise. I don't.

who gives a FF as to what he thinks , I certainly don't....

[Tazio]

Excuse me, but who gives a damn what he insists is correct or otherwise. I don't.
Certainly not me. :s nore:

[Retro Formula 1]

So you demand that SCHUMI - his nickname is NOT "Schuey" - that is a British invention and it is incorrect, he is GERMAN!


:confused:

His nicknames were The Rain Meister or even The Red Baron. Schumi, Schumy, Schuey etc are just truncated names although you could call them nick names as well but all are legitimate no matter what country you're from.

Don't get so worked up. We all know who he is no matter what the spelling.

[turismo6]

If you think that he should go then clearly you have to include the real no-hoper, time waster and over the hill master such as Jarno Trulli.




Spot on.

[Tazio]

:confused:

His nicknames were The Rain Meister or even The Red Baron. Schumi, Schumy, Schuey etc are just truncated names although you could call them nick names as well but all are legitimate no matter what country you're from.

Don't get so worked up. We all know who he is no matter what the spelling.I prefer "Mike" If it aint on the birth certificate it is a nick name, and there is no correct or incorrect one. :s tare:

[Saint Devote]

I just look at it this way - he is German so the German version is the proper one to use.

[Valve Bounce]

I just look at it this way - he is German so the German version is the proper one to use.

Why? This is an English language forum. Besides I call him SchM anyway. Basically, as long as it is not abusive, I see no reason why anyone cannot call him what they like. It is their prerogative.

[Big Ben]

I just look at it this way - he is German so the German version is the proper one to use.

the proper nickname? I've never thought those words together would make too much sense... I still don't actually. I call him 'cizma'

[Warriwa]

I call him shoopoos pothole. Everyone tries to avoid him.

[Mia 01]

Nowdays MS is only one of the lesser numbers in the midfield, it must hurting him a bit.

[Valve Bounce]

Maybe we should call him the "Also ran Shoe" :p :

[airshifter]

Maybe we should call him the "Also ran Shoe" :p :

Is that German? :laugh:


It's hard to say just how much edge he has lost. That's the problem with F1. We can only compare him to Nico and nobody really knows if Nico is just that good, or if MS has faded.

As for nicknames, to me if it's not insulting I don't care what anyone calls him or anyone else. Personally I didn't think calling him "The Chin" was wrong either. It's much better than being called "Cruiser" like his younger brother often was.

[Jag_Warrior]

I used to alternate between Chin the Chopper, Shoemaker and Cheatin' Bast... er, never mind. :D

[BDunnell]

I just look at it this way - he is German so the German version is the proper one to use.

I assume you also object to those Italians who called Nigel Mansell 'Il Leone' on the grounds that they should have called him by an English nickname?

[Valve Bounce]

I think your post has just about proved the point. :up:
It is possible for fans of team to also give a driver a nickname and I for one am not offended that Nigel was given a nickname by the tifosi, why would I? The point that a driver can only be referred to by a nickname from fans in his chosen country is utter rubbish, and I can't believe we've had to justify it.

Well, when you get told what you can say and what you cannot by the Golders Green putsch, it does tend to grate a bit.

[Saint Devote]

I assume you also object to those Italians who called Nigel Mansell 'Il Leone' on the grounds that they should have called him by an English nickname?

I see you misunderstand - I refer you to Peter Ustinov.

If you were around f1 at the time, then you would know that "Our Noige" never had a nickname in Britain really or actually at all. So when he joined Ferrari they gave him a great one.

Its not ABOUT, "WHO" gives the nickname.

As a devoted supporter I think the name "Mansell" said it all - it usually does for the great drivers. Does anything more need be said when "Senna" or "Prost" is said? No.

Nigel exposed the wonderful raw positive emotion of fans like I have never witnessed at a track - for years I flew to the British Grand Prix JUST because he raced at Silverstone.

Forget the tifosi - Mansell's Silverstone ruled :D

Wonderful memories.

[Saint Devote]

A few more endearing terms from the past those with kistorical knowledge may recall:

Moco - Pace

Lole - Reutemann

Jumper Jarier - before technology spoilt it.

Andrea de Crasheris

Hunt the Shunt - f3 days

Sideways Scheckter - especially when Jody used to lock his Gordini Renault's diff to get the rear to swing around - he love the rear of the car to be as loose as possible. I reckon that Jody and Tom Pryce would have loved the way Schumi sets up his car.

Super Rat

Regga

Herman the German - Jochen Mass courtesy of James Hunt

SuperSwede

Big Bear - Denny Hulme

Littke Art - Merzario

And of course there is the nickname that Alonso has in Spain - El Nano.

[Valve Bounce]

A few more endearing terms from the past those with kistorical knowledge may recall:

Moco - Pace

Lole - Reutemann

Jumper Jarier - before technology spoilt it.

Andrea de Crasheris

Hunt the Shunt - f3 days

Sideways Scheckter - especially when Jody used to lock his Gordini Renault's diff to get the rear to swing around - he love the rear of the car to be as loose as possible. I reckon that Jody and Tom Pryce would have loved the way Schumi sets up his car.

Super Rat

Regga

Herman the German - Jochen Mass courtesy of James Hunt

SuperSwede

Big Bear - Denny Hulme

Littke Art - Merzario

And of course there is the nickname that Alonso has in Spain - El Nano.

And all that from the Golders Green Weakly. Bravo!!

[SGWilko]

"Our Noige" never had a nickname in Britain

:confused:

You use a generally accepted nickname to suggest there is no nickname.

Huh?

:confused:

[ArrowsFA1]

I think the name "Mansell" said it all...
...and, as the man himself might very well say (and frequently did), more than anyone ever in the the history of motor sport :p

[Easy Drifter]

Hunt had another rhyming nickname that I cannot use here but it started with a 'c'.
To me Michael was 'TGF' short for 'That German Fellow'.
Brabham was 'Black Jack'.
If you want nicknames the WOO is the place.
Who can name:
The 'Dude' aka 'Catfish'
Slammin Sammy
Wild Child
The Hurricane
The King (that one is easy)
Fast Freddie
That is just a few.

[SGWilko]

Hunt had another rhyming nickname that I cannot use here but it started with a 'c'.
To me Michael was 'TGF' short for 'That German Fellow'.
Brabham was 'Black Jack'.
If you want nicknames the WOO is the place.
Who can name:
The 'Dude' aka 'Catfish'
Slammin Sammy
Wild Child
The Hurricane
The King (that one is easy)
Fast Freddie
That is just a few.


Last three are;

Alex Higgins
Elvis Presley
Freddie Flintoff
I think!

[jens]

Well... :p :

I have to admit before the season I was quite sceptical about Schumacher's comeback and it always seemed as a bigger risk compared to the possible benefits he could bring in performance. Already in the last seasons of his "previous career" his throne as the best driver was hanging in balance, so it was clear it was only going to be tougher now.

For performance Mercedes ought to have signed Heidfeld, but I guess the leaders and marketing gurus of MB couldn't grasp the thought of having two non-race winners, so they needed to take a gamble for publicity with a risk of failure. As we know, had Button stayed at Brawn/Mercedes, Schumacher would have never been considered, because JB was a defending WDC and as a result clearly a "big enough name" to satisfy the marque. However, even though I don't consider Heidfeld any worse than Button, opting for two "unknown" drivers seemed too "low" for MB. :\

[Mia 01]

If Mercedes want another WDC they should hire someone else.

[ZEROX]

I love his comeback . He shouldn't quit in the first place . He is till on his old form . The car just didn't suit him at all . Remember he switch to Mercedes GP late ? The car was meant for Button . I'll wait for the monster within him to awakes .

[Retro Formula 1]

I love his comeback . He shouldn't quit in the first place . He is till on his old form . The car just didn't suit him at all . Remember he switch to Mercedes GP late ? The car was meant for Button . I'll wait for the monster within him to awakes .

Welcome to the forum Zerox.

Is this the "Great" Schumacher we are talking about? The driver who can wring the best out of a crappy car and drag a Minardi around quick enough to win Races? :laugh:

The Mercedes isn't that bad but MS isn't getting anywhere near the best out of it. Rosberg has had the same time in the cockpit and is doing OK and Rosberg's driving style is nothing like Buttons.

You have to say that Schumacher being 60 points behind his team mate on a mere 44 points is very poor and if this was any other driver, we would be asking WTF Mercedes are doing dragging this dead-wood around.

At the end of the day, it results that talk isn't it? We can come up with some valid specific excuses but if the mighty Schumacher cannot drive a car unless it's built around him, the electronics, the chassis, the tyres, the handling etc, then the question has to be asked "was he that good in the first place or was it all the excellent design team around him"?

It might be blasphemy for asking in some peoples eyes but this is the first time we've seen him in a new team with a driver that has the same race time in the car and equal treatment.

All things being equal, it doesn't look that impressive.

[Valve Bounce]

Growing old sucks. :( And it happens to everyone, unfortunately. :bigcry:

[markabilly]

Growing old sucks. :( And it happens to everyone, unfortunately. :bigcry:
better than the alternative.....one can never have too many birthdays and years....

[Retro Formula 1]

Growing old sucks. :( And it happens to everyone, unfortunately. :bigcry:

Speak for yourself... Wrinkley :p

Now, where did I leave my Mobility Scooter?

[Retro Formula 1]

Well, you have to say that Monza was a chance to shine.

He has been mighty around here in the past wut just looked outclassed on Sunday.

People might like to keep him in F1 for personal reasons but can anyone justify keeping him in for next year on his performance this season?

[Mark]

People might like to keep him in F1 for personal reasons but can anyone justify keeping him in for next year on his performance this season?

Certainly if you took the Schumacher name out of it and look on his a random driver you have to say that Mercedes should keep Rosberg next year and look around for some fresh talent for the second seat.

[ArrowsFA1]

Eddie Jordan was suggesting that Mercedes was not a happy camp at the moment, that he saw a number of drivers/managers in the team motorhome during the weekend, and he seems to feel Michael will not be back next year.

Ross Brawn denied such things.

Time will tell.

[Mark]

They'd do much better by trying to get Raikkonen back into F1 and driving for them!

[Retro Formula 1]

They'd do much better by trying to get Raikkonen back into F1 and driving for them!

That's not a bad shout but I would like to see Sutil get a crack. This would see a very talented and exciting lineup for the German team.

[Mia 01]

They'd do much better by trying to get Raikkonen back into F1 and driving for them!

Don´t they have to buy out MS first, will he quit at will?

[Retro Formula 1]

Don´t they have to buy out MS first, will he quit at will?

I think MS will consider it better to work in a consulting role to "help" Mercedes get a championship winning car.

Problem is that very few people rated Rosberg too highly and I was one of the lone voices predicting Schumacher might be beaten. Since then, I have been labeled a "hater" for being correct :laugh:

Also, we must remember that this is last years winning car and has been developed by pretty much the same people. It's arguable that it might have won again this year in different hands... Not wanting to take anything away from young Nico but I don't think he's Tier A.

[F1boat]

They'd do much better by trying to get Raikkonen back into F1 and driving for them!

I am afraid that after one year in WRC Kimi might too find difficult returning in F1.

[jens]

If Schumacher quits, then it was always thought that Heidfeld is a shoe-in to replace him. But if Nick now ties himself with Sauber long-term, then it would be interesting, how could arise as an alternative. IIRC Eddie Jordan was the first man to predict Schumi's comeback for 2010, so who knows, maybe he knows the man better than others. :p :

[ArrowsFA1]

Hearing that Sutil is leading contender to replace Schumacher at season's end IF he leaves Mercedes. Sutil out of contract at Force India
http://twitter.com/legardj/status/24651539106

[Retro Formula 1]

That's not a bad shout but I would like to see Sutil get a crack. This would see a very talented and exciting lineup for the German team.

They must be reading this thread Arrows.

[maximilian]

Speak for yourself... Wrinkley :p

Now, where did I leave my Mobility Scooter?
You're sitting on it, Mr. Alzheimer! ;)

[Retro Formula 1]

You're sitting on it, Mr. Alzheimer! ;)

Sorry, what were we talking about?

Speaking of which, Schumys may well end up running the Mercedes team with Brawn at this rate with Nico and Adrian.

[Roamy]

no no don't retire - wait til JV gets back and kicks your ass in a new car!!

[ioan]

Mike's only got a 3 year contract dude, so he'll be long retired by the time JV works all the team owners down. :p

;)

[Roamy]

Mike's only got a 3 year contract dude, so he'll be long retired by the time JV works all the team owners down. :p

Unfortunately you are probably correct.

[donKey jote]

Schumacher is back? Since when? :p :

[555-04Q2]

Great second session for Schumi yesterday. Second behind a Red Bull first time out at this circuit. Hopefully he can carry this to Quali and the race.

He's heading out in the third session now...

[Retro Formula 1]

Great second session for Schumi yesterday. Second behind a Red Bull first time out at this circuit. Hopefully he can carry this to Quali and the race.

He's heading out in the third session now...

Sorry mate but he's just too slow.

Nothing to do with age or his bike injury or his knowledge of the track or the team. He is just slow when he's not automatic #1 and the best car.

Time to let Sutil see what he can do.

[jens]

Funny that just when Heidfeld has left Mercedes, suddenly rumours have risen about Sutil. Just amazing, how Nick always manages to be at the wrong place, especially if the movement of Sutil materializes.

[Roamy]

why nick is not signed for next year - he is available

[F1boat]

Sorry mate but he's just too slow.

Nothing to do with age or his bike injury or his knowledge of the track or the team. He is just slow when he's not automatic #1 and the best car.

Time to let Sutil see what he can do.

This is a very foolish post. It is obvious that Michael has made an unsuccessful comeback, like many other sportsmen, including Michael Jordan. But to deny his success in the past is petty and immature.
I am happy that he is in the Top 10 and I hope that he will have a good race tomorrow.

[steveaki13]

This is a very foolish post. It is obvious that Michael has made an unsuccessful comeback, like many other sportsmen, including Michael Jordan. But to deny his success in the past is petty and immature.
I am happy that he is in the Top 10 and I hope that he will have a good race tomorrow.

I agree

Also Michael won 2 titles for Benetton with probably not the best car at the time. Look at Michael v his Benetton team mates in 94 & 95, he was dominating races, while Lehto, Verstappen and Herbert often ran 10th to 15th in races.

I know these 3 drivers were not the best but he was finishing a few positions ahead, he was 10 positions and 1 or 2 laps ahead of them. He clearly got way more out of the Benetton than most others could have.

Also the early Ferrari years Mclaren had the best car but Schumacher still matched them.

So to say he only won while in the best car is wrong.

He is struggling this year but I hope he gets one more year.

One final point. I know Nakajima was poor, but Rosberg beat him hands down last year by miles, where as Michael is at least in sight of Rosberg.
So he is hardly the worst driver around.

The problem is people are only seeing him compared to his glory years, but if you look at him as another driver he is where a lot of team mates are a few tenths behind their team mate.

He is only driving now for the fun of it, so as long as he is doing that, and Mercedes are happy to keep him, and he's not a danger then, why are people jumping down his throat.

Enjoy the racing.

(Except for the move on Rubens. I am aware that was stupid and a serious mistake, but besides that my point I feel stands)

[jens]

He is only driving now for the fun of it, so as long as he is doing that, and Mercedes are happy to keep him, and he's not a danger then, why are people jumping down his throat.


F1 is not meant to be "just for fun" - he ought to opt for Superleague Formula or something like that if this is the argument. F1 is serious business. :)

[Daika]

F1 is not meant to be "just for fun" - he ought to opt for Superleague Formula or something like that if this is the argument. F1 is serious business. :)

You take life to seriously. If not for fun, then for what?? Fair point if you say replace Schumacher because he is always 3tenth and 4 places slower/lower than Rosberg. But it is rather invalid argument to say that Schumacher should leave because he is having fun despite the bad results.

[F1boat]

I agree

Also Michael won 2 titles for Benetton with probably not the best car at the time. Look at Michael v his Benetton team mates in 94 & 95, he was dominating races, while Lehto, Verstappen and Herbert often ran 10th to 15th in races.

I know these 3 drivers were not the best but he was finishing a few positions ahead, he was 10 positions and 1 or 2 laps ahead of them. He clearly got way more out of the Benetton than most others could have.

Also the early Ferrari years Mclaren had the best car but Schumacher still matched them.

So to say he only won while in the best car is wrong.

He is struggling this year but I hope he gets one more year.

One final point. I know Nakajima was poor, but Rosberg beat him hands down last year by miles, where as Michael is at least in sight of Rosberg.
So he is hardly the worst driver around.

The problem is people are only seeing him compared to his glory years, but if you look at him as another driver he is where a lot of team mates are a few tenths behind their team mate.

He is only driving now for the fun of it, so as long as he is doing that, and Mercedes are happy to keep him, and he's not a danger then, why are people jumping down his throat.

Enjoy the racing.

(Except for the move on Rubens. I am aware that was stupid and a serious mistake, but besides that my point I feel stands)
Very good post and I think that even in the case of Rubens there war much noise because of the drivers involved. We saw, I think in LMS, a similar accident and nobody was whining. Still, jens might have a point, I think that Mike would have made a better impression in a Le Mans series championship.

[jens]

You take life to seriously. If not for fun, then for what?? Fair point if you say replace Schumacher because he is always 3tenth and 4 places slower/lower than Rosberg. But it is rather invalid argument to say that Schumacher should leave because he is having fun despite the bad results.

I assume my point was misunderstood. I don't mean that a driver shouldn't have fun as such in F1, but it shouldn't be an argument for a team to hire a driver. "Oh he wants to have fun, so let's sign him." That's a non-argument. What is an argument for a team to hire a driver, is that he should first and foremost be highly competitive.

I don't know, how much pressure he had from the owners of Mercedes, but I suspect in late-2009 Ross Brawn for a moment lost a bit of his usual highly rational attitude and let the feelings interfere with his decisions: "It would be just so great to work and have fun with my old colleague Schumacher again," leaving the possible performance factors aside.

[steveaki13]

Well

I think it was a few things.

Schumacher wanted another crack after recharging his batteries, so agreed to drive for Mercedes.

As for Mercedes, they get the Publicity of Schumi's return, (pre Season) the chance of schumi and Brawn combination working and the hope Schumi would be competative.

All in all I am sure Mercedes must have wanted to sign him, they weren't forced too.

They obivously found some common ground, which let Schumi race again with less pressure than at Ferrari and in return Mercedes get what they wanted, otherwise why sign him? and why not let him go now if they are not happy.,

Maybe it is because they believe he is doing OK in not a great car against a good team mate who is in good form, and maybe with a different car next year they still think he made be a good bet.

[Daika]

I assume my point was misunderstood. I don't mean that a driver shouldn't have fun as such in F1, but it shouldn't be an argument for a team to hire a driver. "Oh he wants to have fun, so let's sign him." That's a non-argument. What is an argument for a team to hire a driver, is that he should first and foremost be highly competitive.

I don't know, how much pressure he had from the owners of Mercedes, but I suspect in late-2009 Ross Brawn for a moment lost a bit of his usual highly rational attitude and let the feelings interfere with his decisions: "It would be just so great to work and have fun with my old colleague Schumacher again," leaving the possible performance factors aside.

I got your point from a teammanager point of view. Having fun is ofcourse no reason for Ross Brawn to hire Schumacher. But i think this will be at least a 2 year project.

[donKey jote]

This is a very foolish post. It is obvious that Michael has made an unsuccessful comeback, like many other sportsmen, including Michael Jordan. But to deny his success in the past is petty and immature.
I am happy that he is in the Top 10 and I hope that he will have a good race tomorrow.

Michael who? :p :wave: :dozey: :p

[F1boat]

Not his best race, I have to admit. Neither the luckiets, though.

[Mia 01]

An embarresment to watch.

[steveaki13]

After posting a defense of Michael yesterday, I feel a bit silly today.

He was terrible.

Although it wasn't much his fault the 1st incident, he looked out of rythm all day.

[Jag_Warrior]

I'd like to see the old boy finish out this season. But unless there's some (design) hope that will make next year's car put him back on form... yeah, probably best that he hang it up and let Sutil (or whomever) have the seat. He's beginning to look like a fighter that comes out of retirement and then gets beaten silly by people he could have dusted off with ease in his prime. I don't like the guy. But I don't want to see a multiple WDC humiliated the way he's going down.

[Sonic]

An embarresment to watch.

Agreed 100%.

His poor form is now also making me question Brawn's ability to think objectively when it comes to Schu. We've had every excuse under the sun but the fact is he is miles off his team mates pace and points haul, added to the fact that he has been involved in more shunts/incidents this year than any other driver. Time to go.

[ArrowsFA1]

However, in answer to the original question - I voted that Schumi should carry on. His speed is improving, no doubt also his knowledge of the tyres.
I don't see many signs of improvement since the start of the year. He's had good days and bad days, but I don't think he's on an upward curve.

Obviously much of this is down to the car and tyres, neither of which he likes, and both he and Mercedes seem to have written off this year in the hope that 2011 will bring a big improvement.

Bottom line is his results in comparison with his team-mate have been poor and IMHO it makes no sense for Mercedes to be designing the 2011 car with Michael in mind because he's not their long term future.

[Dave B]

He'll stay, largely because the 2011 car will be designed around him. Strange decision, because it's clearly Nico Rosberg who is capable of scoring better, and who is surely a longer-term prospect for Mercedes.

It strikes me that Mercedes may well compromise Nico in an attempt to hang on to Schumacher, which if true would mean that value marketing over results.

Rosberg's a strong driver, maybe not the finished article yet, but the team should IMO be throwing their weight behind him rather than pandering to Schuey.

I really wanted Michael's comeback to work - I even predicted race wins - but it's painful to watch a former great trundling round off the pace and making so many mistakes. He should bow out gracefully and let Mercedes-Brawnz focus on the future.

[F1boat]

Maybe Ross hopes that he will bounce back like in 2006 after the not so good 2005. However, this season is pretty dreadful, really. But who knows what will happen? F1 is bizzare. I think that one season Rubens failed to score any points with Honda and two years later were fighting for the WDC.

[jens]

Maybe Ross hopes that he will bounce back like in 2006 after the not so good 2005.

The difference is that in 2005 Schumacher was performing well as a driver, finishing as high as 3rd in WDC rankings in a seriously underperforming car.

[Retro Formula 1]

This is a very foolish post. It is obvious that Michael has made an unsuccessful comeback, like many other sportsmen, including Michael Jordan. But to deny his success in the past is petty and immature.
I am happy that he is in the Top 10 and I hope that he will have a good race tomorrow.

Sorry mate but it's just my opinion and I am not denying his success.

I think he is an excellent driver but has had equipment and strategy that has been hugely beneficial.

This is the first time he has been measured on an equal basis since he was a pup and he's severely lacking.

I want to see someone in that car that can get results. Someone that has some drive and passion. Rubens is a couple of years younger and in a worse car but is putting in as much now as he ever has. I don't see why we are making excuses for a 7X champion?

[F1boat]

At this age, couple of years makes a lot of difference. Besides Barrichello never quitted the sport. And also, some drivers age better than others. At the end of their respective careers Damon Hill and David Coulthard were very, very slow. Yes, Michael was 7 times champion and in my opinion the best driver ever, but now he is old, he can not adapt to this new (for him) Formula One and is not the driver he once was. I think that something similar happened to Nigel Mansell and my personal opinion is that it even puts into perspective why some Indy Car drivers like Zanardi and Andretti never really fitted into the sport. Car racing is very complex sport and small things mean hell of a difference.
But to imply that this is the true form of Michael Schumacher, the winner of 91 Grand Prix victories and 7 World Championship titles is beyond ridiculous. Do you think that Ferrari would have tolerated such slow driver for so long?

[i_max2k2]

I lot of his haters, have found good grounds to bash him, and almost all of his criticism has come because he has a car, he has not been able to adapt to as well as he might have had some years ago, I cant tell how he will be in next years car or in say 2012 (if he stays), but it seems it does take time for a car, to be developed to a championship winning level, this happened for him in 1994/95 and then with Ferrari, too, but when he says he know why he is slow, and he's working on it, I'd like to believe him.

[ArrowsFA1]

Why Michael Schumacher will never be back to his best

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/9037790.stm

[F1boat]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/9037790.stm

Great article. But Ross Brawn disagrees:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/87063

I am impressed by this:
""He has become more relaxed," said Brawn. "Five years ago he would have found it terribly difficult to handle such a situation.

He's much cooler and much more mature - and that doesn't mean that he is less ambitious or committed. I am really impressed with how calm he stays."

[Retro Formula 1]

Well, if Brawn is to be believed, Schumacher is as fast now as he has been all his career confirming the fact that he cannot driver around and adapt to problems as Nico has done and that he can only succeed when he has better equipment designed around him.

Not a great endorsement of the champion :s

[F1boat]

Well, if Brawn is to be believed, Schumacher is as fast now as he has been all his career confirming the fact that he cannot driver around and adapt to problems as Nico has done and that he can only succeed when he has better equipment designed around him.

Not a great endorsement of the champion :s

Brawn says what, basically, says Hughes - that Michael has lost his ability to adapt and that he struggles severely in slow corners. Hughes thinks that Mike is done. Ross thinks that he can strike back. I dunno who is right.

[Retro Formula 1]

Brawn says what, basically, says Hughes - that Michael has lost his ability to adapt and that he struggles severely in slow corners. Hughes thinks that Mike is done. Ross thinks that he can strike back. I dunno who is right.

Fair points :up:

We will see.

[jens]

Funny that Brawn mentions that if it was any other driver, he would consider sacking...

And I have to mention this quote isn't really convincing:

"If he were a rookie we surely would have asked ourselves if he has the capacity to advance. With Michael we know that he has."

I think it would be more logical to argue the other way around. With a green rookie you can still bet on some untapped potential, while Schumacher is at such age that his skills are more likely to degrade. To expect a 41-year-old driver to have more improvement potential than a 21-y-o sounds quite... erm, unusual to put it mildly.

Anyway, the narrow front tyre excuse keeps popping up all the time, but hasn't the 2011 tyre got the same width? To me it seems like a major gamble to hope something will improve next year. It may be a different tyre company, but Schumacher would still never get the front-end grip he would like.

[ShiftingGears]

Funny that Brawn mentions that if it was any other driver, he would consider sacking...

And I have to mention this quote isn't really convincing:


I think it would be more logical to argue the other way around. With a green rookie you can still bet on some untapped potential, while Schumacher is at such age that his skills are more likely to degrade. To expect a 41-year-old driver to have more improvement potential than a 21-y-o sounds quite... erm, unusual to put it mildly.

Anyway, the narrow front tyre excuse keeps popping up all the time, but hasn't the 2011 tyre got the same width? To me it seems like a major gamble to hope something will improve next year. It may be a different tyre company, but Schumacher would still never get the front-end grip he would like.

I think Schumacher's comeback particularly highlights how great Prost's 'comeback' turned out for him - he achieved a world championship in his 'comeback' whilst realising that he was over the hill. So he ended up finally retiring at the top without feeling there was more left in him.


I feel that Schumacher's comeback will ultimately disappoint, unfortunately. I think that most who supported his rivals during his reign as best driver would like to see him win at least one more race - alas, I don't think it will happen.

[fandango]

It would be interesting to know how many team bosses would now sign him up for next year.

When he stepped out of the car in pre-season testing everyone was impressed by his pace and fitness.
Some predicted race wins.
When things didn't go well, he was condemned, but some said let's wait six months.
As the months have passed without success, Schumacher is losing defenders steadily, as fewer and fewer people can find a reason to defend his driving.

What I wonder is: what will it take for Ross Brawn to cut his losses? He's a very clever man, so what do you think is his yardstick, his "at least he can still..."?

There's a saying in Spanish that the last thing you lose is hope...

[ArrowsFA1]

What I wonder is: what will it take for Ross Brawn to cut his losses? He's a very clever man, so what do you think is his yardstick, his "at least he can still..."?
Ross says:
"I am optimistic than next year we will have a better package generally, but a package that Michael will find a bit easier to use." (Link (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/87185))
Mmmmmm...winter testing will be crucial in determining whether MS will be back in 2011 or not I think. If he does not find the package "a bit easier to use" then is there really much point Merecedes indulging him for another season?

[Retro Formula 1]

If MS was a football Manager, this is the equivalent of the Chairman giving him a vote of confidence i.e. he will be out on his earhole next week :laugh:

[maximilian]

Mercedes should scramble to secure a suitable replacement driver before it's too late...

[jens]

Actually the interesting bit regarding Schumacher is that since Spain he seemed to come to form again. He beat Rosberg for three consecutive races (Spain, Monaco, Turkey), the chassis was also arguably suited for him by that time... But for some reason Michael started fading again after that. What happened? Is the age showing and he has been running out of energy unlike younger competitors? Or did Mercedes have some upgrades for Canada, which once again didn't suit Schumi?

[Garry Walker]

Actually the interesting bit regarding Schumacher is that since Spain he seemed to come to form again. He beat Rosberg for three consecutive races (Spain, Monaco, Turkey), the chassis was also arguably suited for him by that time... But for some reason Michael started fading again after that. What happened? Is the age showing and he has been running out of energy unlike younger competitors? Or did Mercedes have some upgrades for Canada, which once again didn't suit Schumi?

The sad reality is that in Monaco and Turkey he spent the whole race holding up Nico. That is not something one would expect from Schumacher against someone like Rosberg. Sad to say, but retirement might be the better option for him, when he cant even beat someone like Rosberg - something I expected him to do with ease before the season started. All in all, a very dissapointing year.

[ArrowsFA1]

Sad to say, but retirement might be the better option for him...
When it's Garry Walker saying this Michael Schumacher maybe should listen :p

[Retro Formula 1]

When it's Garry Walker saying this Michael Schumacher maybe should listen :p

I was thinking the same :s hock:

Garry Walker admitting the reign of The Shoo is over.
Ioan criticising Ferrari.

What next? StD being reasonable and making a worthwhile contribution???

[jens]

I was thinking the same :s hock:

Garry Walker admitting the reign of The Shoo is over.
Ioan criticising Ferrari.

What next? StD being reasonable and making a worthwhile contribution???

Logically next would be Saint Devote losing faith in Button. :p :

[Garry Walker]

When it's Garry Walker saying this Michael Schumacher maybe should listen :p When you cannot beat Rosberg on your favourite track (spa) then it becomes obvious just how much you are struggling - the reasons behind that are irrelevant in the end. But I am sure he will give it another go next season.


Logically next would be Saint Devote losing faith in Button. :p :

Please do not compare me with that dude.

[Retro Formula 1]

Please do not compare me with that dude.

There is no comparison.

One of you is knowledgeable, enthusiastic and has an approach that equals a finely honed and sharpened blunt instrument. I frequently disagree with you but welcome your views more than most on here :)

The other I have been banned for referring to him in what I considered, under the circumstances, to be not only polite but on the face of evidence to the contrary, a compliment. I need say no more ;)

[Big Ben]

Oh boy... you have to follow really closely this forum to read anything before it gets deleted... boys and girls... stop upsetting sainty... I´m come here to comment something and half the thread is gone because you can't behave. do you really have to tease all the time our special colleague of this disgraceful forum? Or is it just in my head that this thread was a bit longer a few hours ago...

well, never mind... Schumi go away... with no testing it means nothing Kimi´s lazy so he´s better than you

[Koz]

well, never mind... Schumi go away... with no testing it means nothing Kimi´s lazy so he´s better than you

Funniest thing I heard all year.

[woody2goody]

I thought he was very good today.

He would have had a shot at Hamilton if Rosberg had've been told to let him go, but a good race for Schumi nevertheless :)

[steveaki13]

I thought he was very good today.

He would have had a shot at Hamilton if Rosberg had've been told to let him go, but a good race for Schumi nevertheless :)

You may be right.

Had he pulled away from Rosberg, he may have had a great chance of catching Hamilton towards the end.

[F1boat]

I thought he was very good today.

He would have had a shot at Hamilton if Rosberg had've been told to let him go, but a good race for Schumi nevertheless :)

Yes! I am happy!

[Mark]

His presence also is preventing worthy drivers itching for a chance in F1 from that seat, infact, they have a worthy driver sitting around doing nothing as a tester who should be on the grid

That's my main problem with it. Let someone else have a go!

[CNR]

http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/30924.html
Schumacher hints at car discrepancy



Mercedes' Norbert Haug did not disagree with Schumacher's claims.
"I cannot disagree with Michael. As far as the car is concerned, he is right," Haug told Bild newspaper.

[ArrowsFA1]

Mmmm...What MS says is:
"The car worked great this time. Unfortunately, I cannot say it has been that way at all the races. There have often been problems, especially on my car, in terms of the consistency, that were not always noticed from the outside. You only saw that I was slower. Both cars have not always been the same."
Is he actually saying he has been deliberately disadvantaged by the team?

There does appear to be a certain level of unrest at Mercedes GP, and I wonder whether there is some sort of split between the old Brawn team and the new Mercedes owners. Maybe the former were not totally enthusiastic about Mercedes wish to have MS in the car, although that's unlikely given the links between Ross and Michael.

All speculation of course, but it doesn't seem to be a particularly happy camp. Their results make that somewhat inevitable but there seems to be a bit more to it than that.

[i_max2k2]

Yes! I am happy!

Yep! Btw I do want to understand why on Friday morning practices he is usually faster than Nico, is it because his raw pace is better, however after setting the car up, this changes..

[555-04Q2]

Great weekend for The Shoe :up:

[ShiftingGears]

Mmmm...What MS says is:
Is he actually saying he has been deliberately disadvantaged by the team?

There does appear to be a certain level of unrest at Mercedes GP, and I wonder whether there is some sort of split between the old Brawn team and the new Mercedes owners. Maybe the former were not totally enthusiastic about Mercedes wish to have MS in the car, although that's unlikely given the links between Ross and Michael.

All speculation of course, but it doesn't seem to be a particularly happy camp. Their results make that somewhat inevitable but there seems to be a bit more to it than that.

I can't help but finding this situation quite ironic, considering the treatment some of his former teammates received. It's pretty amusing.

Definitely not the last we'll hear of this.

[F1boat]

Mmmm...What MS says is:
Is he actually saying he has been deliberately disadvantaged by the team?


No. I think that he is saying that unfortunately his side of the garage has trouble preparing the set-up for his car. Like they did with Jenson for the better part of the 2009 season.

[F1boat]

That's my main problem with it. Let someone else have a go!

Like who? Nobody in the junior series seem very special. And from the rookies even Hulk does not seem extremely quick.

[ioan]

That's my main problem with it. Let someone else have a go!

I am sure there are at least 5 drivers in F1 that are no way near MS' level till I don't see people complaining this much. :\

[Big Ben]

I am sure there are at least 5 drivers in F1 that are no way near MS' level till I don't see people complaining this much. :\

Those that are no good and pay for their seats and are driving really bad cars are not judged as harshly as a billionaire driver paid big money to be constantly beaten by his team mate... there's just no justice... who can understand this world? who? :rolleyes:

[jens]

I can't help but finding this situation quite ironic, considering the treatment some of his former teammates received. It's pretty amusing.

Definitely not the last we'll hear of this.

Yeah that's quite funny. Now Schumacher and his fans know, how was Barrichello feeling once. Or Alonso's experience in 2007 showed, what his former Renault team-mates had been feeling previously. Karma. :p :


As for the criticism of Schumacher, it is relative and also depends on which team he is driving for. Even Massa's seat is questioned now despite him having been a title contender two years ago. If Schumacher was driving for Virgin, none would call for his sacking.

[Garry Walker]

That's my main problem with it. Let someone else have a go!So to whom he should give it to?
Maybe Scott Speed, the guy who showed so much promise?
Maybe Liuzzi, the guy who has so taken advantage of the 10562 opportunities given to him in F1 and even has beaten his teammate once in every 15 races.
Or maybe to Yuji Ide, the guy who made all other F1 drivers look second rate, before bad luck, not lack of talent, but bad luck ruined his career.
Or maybe the seat should go to my personal favourite, Anthony Davidson, who surely is a world champion in making and who once in a while even managed to beat Takuma Sato?

[Retro Formula 1]

Being serious Garry (go on, give it a try ;) ) what would be wrong with young Sutil?

[52Paddy]

With Heidfeld left on the bench, I don't see the justification in having Michael in the seat.