Schumacher !!! Should he call it quits

[i_max2k2]

I don't think he was saying he's getting treated differently, its just as F1boat is saying, his car is not getting setup correctly. I think he does deserve a seat better then potential contenders.

[ArrowsFA1]

Whatever the reasons for MS's comparatively poor performances this year he must be putting all his 2011 hopes on 1) the Pirelli tyres suiting him and 2) Mercedes coming up with a car that suits him. If he steps into the '11 car and has the same feeling he's had this year then there's not much point in going on.

[Mark]

Whatever the reasons for MS's comparatively poor performances this year he must be putting all his 2011 hopes on 1) the Pirelli tyres suiting him and 2) Mercedes coming up with a car that suits him. If he steps into the '11 car and has the same feeling he's had this year then there's not much point in going on.

It's very difficult for him. He's going to have to perform well at the start of 2011 if he even wants to hold onto his race seat for a 2012 season! 7 World Championships or not, this if F1 and if you're not up to scratch...

I could well see him quitting mid season, which would be a very sad end to the most successful career in F1.

[52Paddy]

I could well see him quitting mid season, which would be a very sad end to the most successful career in F1.

Joining the ranks of Alan Jones and Nigel Mansell.... :(

[F1boat]

It's very difficult for him. He's going to have to perform well at the start of 2011 if he even wants to hold onto his race seat for a 2012 season! 7 World Championships or not, this if F1 and if you're not up to scratch...

I could well see him quitting mid season, which would be a very sad end to the most successful career in F1.

But IMO will be forgotten... not completely, but after many years, won't be a big deal.

[CNR]

how would he be doing in this car ?
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2010/10/michael-schumachers-first-world-championship-f1-car-can-be-yours-for-2-million.html

[Arjuna]

Yeah that's quite funny. Now Schumacher and his fans know, how was Barrichello feeling once. Or Alonso's experience in 2007 showed, what his former Renault team-mates had been feeling previously. Karma. :p :

There are more probabilities to explain why Schumi is now being such inferior against his team mate. Perhaps, his tactical mastermind and his driving style played more dominant role than his real talent, so once he drives elsewhere his role is not so dominant, he struggles. Or, he drove superior prolonged dominant of Ferrari that no one was capable of competing with them. Or, He drove at weak seasons, not much drivers of great talent until we found Alonso twice beat him.

Although this year's car does not suit him, as a experienced multititle champions he should be able to fix the problem. He must prove himself better than his teammate first to expect better drives elsewhere. It may take time to chase back his ability after retirement, next year will be more fair to evaluate his performance. The fans are in anxiety to find him back in his victory instinc. However for whatever reason he's a worthy champion.

Some people complained his racing style, instead of proper overtaking he pushed the rivals off to the wall. Alonso is now driving for car better than that gave him twice of title, maybe equal to his drive in 2007, this is perhaps good karma. :)

[Mark]

But like Mansell do we remember his brilliant victory at the 1994 Australian GP? No, we remember his McLaren farce and retiring in Barcelona.

[SGWilko]

But like Mansell do we remember his brilliant victory at the 1994 Australian GP? No, we remember his McLaren farce and retiring in Barcelona.

I dunno, I remember Mansell for Spain 1991, duelling with Senna down the straight, for Mexico 1990, overtaking Berger on the outside of Peraltada, for Silverstone 1987, Hungary 1989......

I already remember the Shoe for Australia 1994, Spa 1998 (I think) and Spain 1997..... As far as my memory of mr Integrity Schumacher, 2010 is a bonus! ;)

[Dave B]

Alain Prost has weighed into the debate, saying:


For me, it’s just a question of age,” Prost told L’Equipe. “I think the tyres are just an excuse, because Schumacher always adapted to any sort of car. It’s just not possible to return to the top after being away for three years at that age. It’s a matter of physiology.

He knows a thing or two, does the Frenchman. If they only had any petrol left in his country...

Source and full story: http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2010/10/19/is-it-fair-comment-or-schumacher-bashing/

[F1boat]

By his fans I'm sure, but we've seen subjects on here hang around like a bad smell for years. Look at Liegate. Its sculpted people perceptions of one driver to such a degree that it can overshadow any great performance.

The haters will hate and question him even without the return. And Mark, about Mansell, I have forgotten that episode until I found it at wikipedia. For me he will always be the man who conquered F1 and Indy Car in the consecutive years. :)
And I agree with Alain about the age.

[Mark]

the man who conquered F1 and Indy Car in the consecutive years. :) .

Back when IndyCar was still a big deal - almost becoming a rival to F1.

[ShiftingGears]

But like Mansell do we remember his brilliant victory at the 1994 Australian GP? No, we remember his McLaren farce and retiring in Barcelona.

I wouldn't call it a brilliant victory - it was an excellent pole position but he was being killed in the race by Hill. He was about a minute behind Hill/Schumacher before the halfway point.

[SGWilko]

Back when IndyCar was still a big deal - almost becoming a rival to F1.

Yep, winning the opening race even after receiving a stop go, and winning the title in his rookie year. Third in his first Indy 500 IIRC.....

[ArrowsFA1]

Yep, winning the opening race even after receiving a stop go, and winning the title in his rookie year. Third in his first Indy 500 IIRC.....
Not sure Newman/Haas would remember 1994 so fondly :p

[SGWilko]

Not sure Newman/Haas would remember 1994 so fondly :p

Well, Mansell regularly qualified the car near the front in '94, certainly fared better than Super Mario, but the car was OK over a lap, over a race distance it was pants.

[555-04Q2]

Two good races in a row. Maybe the old man is getting his mojo back, or he found his glasses :)

[pedro17]

seems to be finding his feet again :)

[Dave B]

Before we get too carried away:

Maybe an explaination for MS's sudden turn of speed: Ted Kravitz reports that during the first stoppage Mercedes converted both cars to a full-wet setup, they don't believe that any other team made such a change.

It was great to see the old man get a good result, but there may have been more to it than pure driver ability.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/9122188.stm

[Big Ben]

Webber made MS look good again... he's a humanitarian

[555-04Q2]

Webber made MS look good again... he's a humanitarian

ROTFLMFAO :laugh:

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Before we get too carried away:

Maybe an explaination for MS's sudden turn of speed: Ted Kravitz reports that during the first stoppage Mercedes converted both cars to a full-wet setup, they don't believe that any other team made such a change.

It was great to see the old man get a good result, but there may have been more to it than pure driver ability.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/9122188.stm

What about the parc-ferme rules after qualifying?

[AndyL]

What about the parc-ferme rules after qualifying?

Parc ferme ends at the start of the race. Ross Brawn's not ready for retirement yet! Shame we didn't get to see what Nico could have done with that advantage.

[ArrowsFA1]

seems to be finding his feet again :)
I remember, years ago, "contract time" being used as an explanation for a driver producing improved performances as the season reached its end.

Of course, I wouldn't suggest that this is the case with MS as he has a rock solid three year deal until the end of 2012.

Just reminded me, that's all :p

[Dave B]

What about the parc-ferme rules after qualifying?
As AndyL says the rules end once the race starts. Usually no team would make such radical changes during the race as the time penalty would far far outweigh the potential gain. But when all your rivals have also stopped....

[Jefe Máximo]

He still wouldn't have beaten Rosberg...

[Firstgear]

The way those Merc's were going those first few laps, Rosberg may have been able to get the win.

[F1boat]

He still wouldn't have beaten Rosberg...

Quite pointless point. It seems unlikely, but you can never know.

[i_max2k2]

Quite pointless point. It seems unlikely, but you can never know.

Precisely, I remember in Shanghai, when Button was following Rosberg for 2nd, and I believe because of an driving error he gave that position to Button, so you never know until its over.

[F1boat]

It is amusing to see that MS haters need to devalue even a 4th place finish. Chill out, guys! Michael is old, it is unlikely that he will cause you much pain in the future.

[ioan]

It is amusing to see that MS haters need to devalue even a 4th place finish. Chill out, guys! Michael is old, it is unlikely that he will cause you much pain in the future.

Older but still great and they are still afraid of him! Which is good! :D

[F1boat]

Older but still great and they are still afraid of him! Which is good! :D

Yes! :D

[Tazio]

It is amusing to see that MS haters need to devalue even a 4th place finish. Chill out, guys! Michael is old, it is unlikely that he will cause you much pain in the future.Mike is a solid pilot, his years of domination are over, but nothing he does now will take away what he has accomplished in the past. I think it's kind of cool that being a midfielder he still fights to his limits. To me it is a bonus that the man is back in the field. Only someone of his credentials could have said:
“OK I'm back give me a seat with the defending world championship team”.
Look how hard JV has tried and he can't even get a sniff. (And that is not a knock on the former WDC) As long as his name is associated with F1 is a good thing. It's kind of like Ferrari. They may not be the best or most ethical, but they are an F1 establishment with their downside considered, like Mike they add to F1's righteousness. Personally I'm grooving on Mike being back win or lose
End of......

[SGWilko]

Just as most have us have thought all along. It was the car that contributed to Michael's apparent poor form.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/9260446.stm

Someone at Merc doesn't want Michael to succeed, as young Nico had none of these problems.

Lets hope Michael is back to his best next season and gives us the show we all expected. :up:

Coughbull spluttersh!t.

[i_max2k2]

Coughbull spluttersh!t.

I don't think its BS, I think Haug has also acknowledged this, although I don't think someone in Mercedes was intentionally doing it, they probably were setup errors, the race engineer change should help.

[SGWilko]

I don't think its BS, I think Haug has also acknowledged this, although I don't think someone in Mercedes was intentionally doing it, they probably were setup errors, the race engineer change should help.

If the cars are the same with only subtle differences in setup, how does one burn a hole in the floor and the other not? Is the floor on slick Mick's car physically bolted closer to the exhausts.......

[Retro Formula 1]

I think Schumacher is correct when he says he's personal achievement is a mere 3 out of 6. He should work on his own performance and not criticise the team and car.

[i_max2k2]

If the cars are the same with only subtle differences in setup, how does one burn a hole in the floor and the other not? Is the floor on slick Mick's car physically bolted closer to the exhausts.......

Well I guess if you'd have noticed in Spain, how far back was Rosberg compared to schumi, I'd assume your similar explanation would work? Car setups can make tremendous difference, and I really dont think he's making stuff up. We saw a lot of times that a improved chassis improving the times considerably in races, so it shouldn't be a surprise that his chassis had some problems during some of the races.

[i_max2k2]

I think Schuey is abit rusty too. He used to be a god at setup, and now he's had nearly a whole season getting it wrong everytime. Mercedes/Brawn were the previous Champs and it makes you wonder if the internal reshuffle has cocked the whole structure up?

I agree but I think what mostly happened is Michael was trying to drive a naturally under steering car made for button, and he kept trying to change the setup to make the car suitable to his style, Michael was good at adapting, but who knows if he ever came a across a car so much different to his natural driving style. And he has aged and has been off for so long, but even then his raw pace is pretty good, I always noticed his first practice times were mostly better then rosberg, and I believe those times were set w/o changing the car setup a lot, and from second practice he'd become slower. I'm hoping to see a much better schumi in 2011, and car designed more towards his style, we could see some of his old magic!

[TheFamousEccles]

Lets face it- with a few exceptions, Schumacher is going to get a warm, fuzzy cuddle from the fanboys that inhabit practically any F1 forum/discussion, including this one.

I don't harbour these feelings. I am for the affirmative, in terms of the title of this particular thread. Yes, he should call it quits. He should never have come back in the first instance.

This year has gone a long way to tarnishing his reputation irreversibly, and his actions in some of the races towards his fellow drivers (most notably Rubens - a former team mate and sponsor of more than one WDC it could be argued) shows almost irrefutably that sportsmanship is still an alien concept to him.

Time to go and do something else now, Michael.

[ioan]

Lets face it- with a few exceptions, Schumacher is going to get a warm, fuzzy cuddle from the fanboys that inhabit practically any F1 forum/discussion, including this one.

I don't harbour these feelings. I am for the affirmative, in terms of the title of this particular thread. Yes, he should call it quits. He should never have come back in the first instance.

This year has gone a long way to tarnishing his reputation irreversibly, and his actions in some of the races towards his fellow drivers (most notably Rubens - a former team mate and sponsor of more than one WDC it could be argued) shows almost irrefutably that sportsmanship is still an alien concept to him.

Time to go and do something else now, Michael.

Yeah spout some bile, just let it get out, if it makes you feel better! :D

[markabilly]

I thought it was not only the hole in the floor, but all the extra weight and trouble seeing....

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/49934000/jpg/_49934440_schumacher_crash_640.jpg

[Tazio]

Yeah spout some bile, just let it get out, if it makes you feel better! :D Something that you and I can agree on. :eek:
As far as his legacy goes the only negative will be that he was a win at all cost pilot with a well deserved disqualification in 1997.
The vast majority will marvel at his 7WDC's and 91 f1 victories.
Deal with that.(Eccles) :s mokin:

[TheFamousEccles]

firstly- not trying to start a fight, just merely adding my paltry 2c worth to the above named thread. Now...

@ Ioan - it's an opinion, not bile - that is something a lot different.

@ Alcatraz - Deal with what? That the fanboys will forgive any crappy behaviour just because it came from Schumacher? Meh... not really concerned either way. As an observer of F1, there are many others I would rate as greater than "He", and I stand by my belief that his best has past, and that he should not have come back.

Dealing with that, hmm? I guess not.

[Tazio]

firstly- not trying to start a fight, just merely adding my paltry 2c worth to the above named thread. Now...

@ Ioan - it's an opinion, not bile - that is something a lot different.

@ Alcatraz - Deal with what?

Dealing with that, hmm? I guess not.
No I suppose you guess not.
You may quite possibly be in a minute segment of F1 fans.
That takes to his grave holding to the absurd opinion that making a lackluster comeback in his 40's
will have:



gone a long way to tarnishing his reputation irreversibly,
That's what!

[Mia 01]

Even if he had a crappy car this season MS driving skills show 2010 up as they belong to a driver in the lower midfield (atleast most of the races) Next year could be his last.

[markabilly]

there is this story I remember from somewhere that when MS left Benetton, Alesi (and also maybe Berger) tried driving the MS car with set up exactly for that particular track as when MS used it to win a race from the prior season. There was so much oversteer that Alesi could not come anywhere close to matching his times, and found the car set up completely unsuitable and in his words "dangerous".

I Am sure Ioan or someone can find far more details than my old memory can ever remeber

My suspicion is that Nico will be much happier driving a car set up like button with understeer.

OTOH, I suspicion that Lewis would be much happier driving a car set up like MS likes it...

Twitchy, very quick steering, with plenty of oversteer.....rock and roll....so twitchy and responsive to the road and driver inputs that others might call it "dangerous" and too difficult to drive fast

The first tire tests showed Nico complaining (too much oversteer) and not doing well, while MS was loving it and setting second fastest time.

So who next season, will have the car best suited for their driving style??

My personal opinion is that the fastest is often the more "dangerous" style for many tracks (but now, one also has to deal with the tire wear issue, soooooo)

[Big Ben]

that's right... he's been so slow this year because he's just so awesome... i wonder why I didn´t think of that?

[i_max2k2]

Everything as is, but just one year is good enough for the haters to undermine the rest of 16yrs where few people came close to the level he was on.

[Roamy]

JV has come out and said MS in now on par with Nico. Sh!t you know I believe JV so I may be eating a lot of words next year.

[555-04Q2]

I feed ya with a side order of fries :p :

[odykas]

Please go on schumi... 2011 will be even better than 2010 :p :

[SGWilko]

JV has come out and said MS in now on par with Nico. Sh!t you know I believe JV so I may be eating a lot of words next year.

Well, there is no love lost between these two, is there? :D

[Cooper_S]

Well, there is no love lost between these two, is there? :D

I would say any lingering animosity is one sided.

[Mark]

Well; he's gone!

[Retro Formula 1]

Well; he's gone!

Who, Schumacher?

About time :D

[markabilly]

JV has come out and said MS in now on par with Nico. Sh!t you know I believe JV so I may be eating a lot of words next year.
better eating words than eating sh$t, even catchup don't cut the "used" taste

[Chaparral66]

Who's gone?

[SGWilko]

Who's gone?

Schumacher - off the boil apparently......

[Chaparral66]

Do you mean he's quitting Mercedes? Just did a check on Google and could find nothing. Last time any rumor was running around about that, Eddie Jordon was trying to get something started, and that was back in Sept. of 2010.

[Chaparral66]

Schuey will finish out his contract.

[Lalo]

Pool goes like this today (Dec. 16th - 10:43 Argentina time):

Must quit -> 60 votes (50.85%)
Should stay -> 58 votes (49.15%)

Pretty close, hum? ;)

2010 was a warm up for Michael. 2011 will definitly show everybody what he's got to give, for good or for bad.

[odykas]

A big "No" from my side.
I hope he stays! :s mokin:

[Roamy]

I feed ya with a side order of fries :p :

no I am on a no carb diet :)

[Sonic]

Bump. :)

[Sonic]

He's driving like a total Billy ATM, it's time to walk away.

[BDunnell]

There seems to have been no improvement at all in the performance of either team or driver. Sadly, his career is ending with a whimper. It's not all his fault, but that's how it is.

[Sonic]

He sounds like a man ready to walk away. Talking about not experience 'big joy' as he put it behind the wheel ATM.

[steveaki13]

It did sound as though he now realises that he is under increasing pressure.

While I understand his two comeback seasons have been poor by his high standards. I think the man he is (a seven times world champion) won't just cave in and quit.

The drive and determination that he must have to have achieved all he has achieved will keep him fighting until he gets replaced or the end of the season. I don't see Michael just walking away mid season.

Of course its the natural order for the older to get beaten and left behind by the younger drivers. People must never forget Michael's achievments in F1 and must not remember him only for this end of his career.

We look on now and say he shouldn't have come back, but I for one before he announced his return wondered how he would do against the likes of Hamilton, Vettel and co, and we now have our answer. The next generation takes the sport forward. Remembering all his generation did for F1.

[N. Jones]

Your pace is slow.

Your defending is offensive.

Your racecraft is gone.

Michael - you need to give up the ghost.

[Marbles]

It was like watching Schumacher defend 10 championships in one day. Even NASCAR would have black-flagged him today for those antics. But I guess the super-fit, super-human Schumacher can't compete with the kids these days at the grand old age of 42 (it's the new 32). Long gone are those days when he was able to carry that cursed Benetton across the finnish line in his mighty arms.

Coulthard and Brundle got their shots in today:

"He's been lacking in the wheel to wheel combat."
"Well, he's never really had to worry about that in his career running at the front."

"He just doesn't know when to give up!"
"You mean his career?"
"No, in that corner!"

It's overman!

[markabilly]

It was like watching Schumacher defend 10 championships in one day. Even NASCAR would have black-flagged him today for those antics. But I guess the super-fit, super-human Schumacher can't compete with the kids these days at the grand old age of 42 (it's the new 32). Long gone are those days when he was able to carry that cursed Benetton across the finnish line in his mighty arms.

Coulthard and Brundle got their shots in today:

"He's been lacking in the wheel to wheel combat."
"Well, he's never really had to worry about that in his career running at the front."

"He just doesn't know when to give up!"
"You mean his career?"
"No, in that corner!"

It's overman!
Yeah but in 20 years people willl remember the name Schumacher as one of the greatest ever.


and Brundle, who is he?? what did he ever do??
I can not remember....is he that fat mechanic know it all on Speed TV???

Oh no, now I remember. He holds the record for the most f1 races by a driver, without a pole, without a fastest lap, without a victory...but he did manage to finish 4th or something


then who was the other guy??? Oh yeah Davie C, who could not cut it against his team mates, and despite driving one of the best cars on the grid.....and looks sponge bob square pants or who ever.....and of course, always beaten by schuie.

Those two are still sore losers.....

Of course, MS could go do nascar.

But first he would need to get in proper shape to do NASCAR......He would need to bulk up. He would need to drop all that excerczing and drink lots of beer, much BBQ, put on another 75-100 lbs and go do it.

[aryan]

. He holds the record for the most f1 races by a driver, without a pole, without a fastest lap, without a victory...but he did manage to finish 4th or something


then who was the other guy??? Oh yeah Davie C, who could not cut it against his team mates,


Brundle is a World Sportscar Champion and a winner of 24 hours Le Mans.

David Coulthard is the winner of 13 Grand Prix. In more than 100 years of Grand Prix racing, only 18 drivers have ever won more grand prix than him, 14 of whom are alive.

They might not be the greatest stars of formula 1, but they are both extremely sucessful people in their life and career. To top it all off, they are both wealthy, and seem to be enjoying a comfortale life. Coultahrd, I believe also owns a hotel in Monaco. Not that wealth is a measure of greatness or anything, but...

I don't know what you've done and what achievements you have had in your name dude, but if that's your definition of 'loser', I really would love to be a loser as well.

[steveaki13]

Brundle is a World Sportscar Champion and a winner of 24 hours Le Mans.

David Coulthard is the winner of 13 Grand Prix. In more than 100 years of Grand Prix racing, only 18 drivers have ever won more grand prix than him, 14 of whom are alive.

They might not be the greatest stars of formula 1, but they are both extremely sucessful people in their life and career. To top it all off, they are both wealthy, and seem to be enjoying a comfortale life. Coultahrd, I believe also owns a hotel in Monaco. Not that wealth is a measure of greatness or anything, but...

I don't know what you've done and what achievements you have had in your name dude, but if that's your definition of 'loser', I really would love to be a loser as well.

:up:

[Sonic]

Your pace is slow.

Your defending is offensive.

Your racecraft is gone.

Michael - you need to give up the ghost.

And he knows it!

He's got that same wild eyed look that Damon had at the end of his career.

[Big Ben]

he should stay some more. he's performances are simply delightful. The guy who would win in a Minardi can't even finish in the top ten in a Mercedes. Give the cars MS drove and a puppet for a team mate to a Vettel, Alonso or Hamilton and they will all win at least 7 titles too. I think with him still on track cars should be fitted with horns.

[Sonic]

Brundle is a World Sportscar Champion and a winner of 24 hours Le Mans.

David Coulthard is the winner of 13 Grand Prix. In more than 100 years of Grand Prix racing, only 18 drivers have ever won more grand prix than him, 14 of whom are alive.

They might not be the greatest stars of formula 1, but they are both extremely sucessful people in their life and career. To top it all off, they are both wealthy, and seem to be enjoying a comfortale life. Coultahrd, I believe also owns a hotel in Monaco. Not that wealth is a measure of greatness or anything, but...

I don't know what you've done and what achievements you have had in your name dude, but if that's your definition of 'loser', I really would love to be a loser as well.

:up: +1

[F1boat]

David Coulthard is the winner of 13 Grand Prix. In more than 100 years of Grand Prix racing, only 18 drivers have ever won more grand prix than him, 14 of whom are alive.


In the end DC was like MS now. Very, very slow, a shadow of what he once was.

[SGWilko]

and Brundle, who is he?? what did he ever do??
I can not remember....is he that fat mechanic know it all on Speed TV???

Oh no, now I remember. He holds the record for the most f1 races by a driver, without a pole, without a fastest lap, without a victory...but he did manage to finish 4th or something.

Actually, Martin held up really rather well against Michael in the Benetton. Once Michael realised, as with Herbert, Barrichello etc etc, they were not allowed to get near him after that.

Still, what goes around.....

[SGWilko]

In the end DC was like MS now. Very, very slow, a shadow of what he once was.

Difference being DC knew when to quit....

[markabilly]

Brundle is a World Sportscar Champion and a winner of 24 hours Le Mans.

David Coulthard is the winner of 13 Grand Prix. In more than 100 years of Grand Prix racing, only 18 drivers have ever won more grand prix than him, 14 of whom are alive.

They might not be the greatest stars of formula 1, but they are both extremely sucessful people in their life and career. To top it all off, they are both wealthy, and seem to be enjoying a comfortale life. Coultahrd, I believe also owns a hotel in Monaco. Not that wealth is a measure of greatness or anything, but...

I don't know what you've done and what achievements you have had in your name dude, but if that's your definition of 'loser', I really would love to be a loser as well.

I said "sore loser".....old expression for someone who LOSES to someone else and then stays mad and can not get over it.....

No I would not call anybody who has ever managed to get a drive in F1, a "loser".......not even "How-bad-you-are" or Yung or whatever his name.

As to my career, Chapman wanted me to drive for him, but Jimmy Clark was too scared, threatened to quit if he hired me, said he would not be able to handle the competition.......so Chapman withdrew the offer and I never thought further about it.

[markabilly]

Difference being DC knew when to quit....

I think the MS big problems are lack of testing and dealing with the tires.
In his prime, that is all he did was TEST, TEST and TEST some more.......

There are moments he shows brillance in races, and then moments he looks like a rookie in Qing.

It strikes me that he over-drives the car in Qing to make up for not going as fast as he wants, as in trying too hard, rahter than just driving and letting the car and track come together with a certain acceptance of he ends up where he ends up on the grid.

[Sonic]

I think the MS big problems are lack of testing and dealing with the tires.
In his prime, that is all he did was TEST, TEST and TEST some more.......

There are moments he shows brillance in races, and then moments he looks like a rookie in Qing.

It strikes me that he over-drives the car in Qing to make up for not going as fast as he wants, as in trying too hard, rahter than just driving and letting the car and track come together with a certain acceptance of he ends up where he ends up on the grid.

I think there is a great deal of truth in what you say.

That being the case though, with his experience, he really should be able to recognised that he is over driving the thing, and if he can't, well, I think I've already voiced my opinion on what he should do.

[F1boat]

Difference being DC knew when to quit....

Could have done it a year earlier, if you ask me. But I agree about MS - he should have never came back. But he also shouldn't be judged because of this two seasons. He is waaaay past his prime.

[odykas]

I heard that MS declared that he wants to continue racing.

I hope he does :D

[Retro Formula 1]

Interesting interview with Herbert.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/91309

Think he's right.

[markabilly]

Herbert: Another sore loser:



"The simple fact is that he is no longer the best driver on the track," Herbert wrote in a column in Abu Dhabi's The Nation newspaper.
"Schumacher has not lost any of his skill - the new generation of young drivers are just better than him. It is a case that the level required to win in F1 has gone up and he is not at that standard anymore.



and herbert writes for who??????

Was he not a race driver at some point? ?????name sounds a little famailar, I just can not remember......

[Robinho]

Stick a fork in him, he's done.

Nice try, and he's still good enough to compete, but that will never be enough for him. Give it up and get Di Resta in the Merc for next year. That is all.

[Retro Formula 1]

That's what I think as well. Schumacher is taking up the space of someone that can do it justice.

Get Paul in there now!!

[Sonic]

You sound a little sore yourself Bill. Herbs is calling it like he see's it, nothing more.

[F1boat]

All people who got beaten by MS now have their fun... kinda pathetic IMO.

[Speedworx]

Yes. He shouldn't have come back. He is too old and too slow. Give the Mercedes to di Resta and the Force India to Chandhok.

[i_max2k2]

Well I dont think he's very slow, he's about 2/10th slower then rosberg at best, but I guess the frustrating situations he gets into are getting to him now. I hope he continues!

[Roamy]

Brawn and Merc still believe he has it - So who are we to question these professionals. MS did not buy his new ride to my knowledge so drive on !!

[SGWilko]

It happens in all forms of sport (maybe not tiddlywinks);

Look at Tennis, Snooker, Athletics etc. As soon as someone comes a long to dominate, be it the Williams Sisters, Hendry, Linford etc, the bar is raised and the new breed of sportspeople come in at that level and better it.

It is nothing to get heated about - it just happens.

Schumacher was pressuring Senna in 1994, Hakkinen & Alonso pressured Schumacher in 1998/9/2005/6, Hamilton pressured Alonso in 2007, Vettel pressured the established frontrunners from 2009.

Unless you are in the class of the field car, with a significant advantage (not to detract from Button's achievments) but the new boys will always be nipping the heels of the current class.

Get over it!

[Arjuna]

I have the same impression as many of you about di Resta, without too much background details, scoring points in two of four races in a brand new championship is very good. Wait for more races to see the talent is proven permanently for the whole season or what he has achieved is not more than a sensation in the opening races, is a highly recommended candidate to fill up Schummacher's seat.

I feel sorry that Michael doesn't improve in the second year of his come back to the series. I can't believe driver who can give strong pressure on his opponents: Senna, Hakkinen, Damon Hill, is off beat when he comes to race against younger drivers. The skill and his instinct may be deteriorated by his age, but fans expect that he can do something better than his current pace, The Reinmeister..

Hamilton pressured Alonso in 2007, but the winner is Raikkonen :)

[steveaki13]

It happens in all forms of sport (maybe not tiddlywinks);

Look at Tennis, Snooker, Athletics etc. As soon as someone comes a long to dominate, be it the Williams Sisters, Hendry, Linford etc, the bar is raised and the new breed of sportspeople come in at that level and better it.

It is nothing to get heated about - it just happens.

Schumacher was pressuring Senna in 1994, Hakkinen & Alonso pressured Schumacher in 1998/9/2005/6, Hamilton pressured Alonso in 2007, Vettel pressured the established frontrunners from 2009.

Unless you are in the class of the field car, with a significant advantage (not to detract from Button's achievments) but the new boys will always be nipping the heels of the current class.

Get over it!

Correct

[markabilly]

OH, Yeah.....MS is over the hill, for sure. :rolleyes:

Here is a video of Hamilton and MS going toe to toe, wheel to wheel, buttocks to buttocks, with Hamilton on the fresh rubber right out of the pits and MS was on old rubber (whch everyone knows is a tremendous advantage with the new trojan rubbers from Pirelli, cause beleive me, used trojans are never as good as fresh ones......).

MS was far tougher on Hamilton then Button............of course, Button knowing he is the mac lap dog for lewis may explain why :D

You can guess which race

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LF4uYQt3IFc&NR=1


speaking of used rubber, reminds me of the time donkey and his bud were out in the country and approached by a sweet thing.

She said let's get it on....they said, "well, yes mam".

she said, "but I don't want to get preganent, so you got to wear this" and hands out one for each.

They put it on, and then they get it on.

About four months later, after she is gone, they get to talking.

One asks the other, "do you really care if she gets preganant?"

The other says, "well no I do not."

So the others say, "me neither, so why don't we take these old rubbers off......




Some folks along pit wall need to remember to take the old rubbers off earlier than later.....

[Sonic]

Got anything more recent to prove the old dog can learn new tricks?

[markabilly]

nice stolen photos showing petrov, turning LEFT into MS, such that while it was alleged that MS turned into him, and MS agreed, well, boys and girls, looks like MS was in the wrong, but only when he said it was his fault.

Petrov did the dirty.

Seems Petrov is the new Sato..........and the shame is that if the Kube had not had his wreck, he might be the only real challenger to Vettel, given the obvious speed of the new renault design.

Instead, they get the crazy russian

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/7023/cfghdhbfdghf.jpg

[markabilly]

Got anything more recent to prove the old dog can learn new tricks?

I see said the blind man....or as the song goes, none so blind as one who refuses to see......MORE RECENT??????have you not figured out which race the video is from???

[Mia 01]

It´s obvious that he gives people something to talk about and perfect ads for Mercedes.

[Sonic]

I see said the blind man....or as the song goes, none so blind as one who refuses to see......MORE RECENT??????have you not figured out which race the video is from???

Indeed I have sir. And where did the illustrious Schumacher finish in that little race? Oh and were was his team mate again? Gee, my memories not what it was, perhaps you could supply those little details.

[Retro Formula 1]

OH, Yeah.....MS is over the hill, for sure. :rolleyes:

Here is a video of Hamilton and MS going toe to toe, wheel to wheel, buttocks to buttocks, with Hamilton on the fresh rubber right out of the pits and MS was on old rubber (whch everyone knows is a tremendous advantage with the new trojan rubbers from Pirelli, cause beleive me, used trojans are never as good as fresh ones......).

MS was far tougher on Hamilton then Button............of course, Button knowing he is the mac lap dog for lewis may explain why :D

You can guess which race

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LF4uYQt3IFc&NR=1


speaking of used rubber, reminds me of the time donkey and his bud were out in the country and approached by a sweet thing.

She said let's get it on....they said, "well, yes mam".

she said, "but I don't want to get preganent, so you got to wear this" and hands out one for each.

They put it on, and then they get it on.

About four months later, after she is gone, they get to talking.

One asks the other, "do you really care if she gets preganant?"

The other says, "well no I do not."

So the others say, "me neither, so why don't we take these old rubbers off......




Some folks along pit wall need to remember to take the old rubbers off earlier than later.....

I think they were on Bridgestones for start ;)

Also, we saw some great driving from Lewis where MS had gone in too hot and LH did the switchback. If MS learned how to do this from Lewis, he might not have hit Petrov :D

[Roamy]

Got anything more recent to prove the old dog can learn new tricks?

It is more like you can't teach a old dog DUMB tricks. The car is not a winner yet and until it is don't expect a daring result.
I think older drivers become a bit cautious and won't push a sh!tpile to the limit if they can't win... MS is out there to win and could give a crap about podiums

[Kimi123]

At least Schumacher is now perfect for his new job! ;)



The seven times World Champion and Formula 1 icon Michael Schumacher is currently acting as Europe's Ambassador for road safety. On Wednesday the German visited Strasbourg where he launced the UN decade of action on Road Safety.
Schumacher visited the European Parliament and he met MEPs from the transport and industry committees as well as EP President Jerzy Buzek.
The European Parliament published on their webpage an interview where Schumacher send a message to too fast drivers on the road...
Source: RacingNewsFlash.com (http://racingnewsflash.com/content/michael-schumacher-ambassador-eu)


Michael himself is definitely not driving too fast... ;)

[markabilly]

Poor mercedes.....they want the team to be a profit center, they have like half or less the number of people than Mac, to do twice the work......

Poor Micheal,...... very upseting....he does not even get a time in Q3..... :eek:

in spain,
where it rain
upon the plain,
but could not stop the pain


well



everyone is now upset that micheal may never win another f1 race, but may be this discussion will solve the problem

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_S_LsTZFW2Y

[race_director]

Poor mercedes.....they want the team to be a profit center, they have like half or less the number of people than Mac, to do twice the work......

Poor Micheal,...... very upseting....he does not even get a time in Q3..... :eek:

in spain,
where it rain
upon the plain,
but could not stop the pain


well



everyone is now upset that micheal may never win another f1 race, but may be this discussion will solve the problem

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_S_LsTZFW2Y


dont mind about the text part. but dude the vedio ?

[Kevincal]

its really looking like this will be michaels last year... how long can he keep humiliating himself.. ill be shocked if he races next year..

[Koz]

Poor Micheal,...... very upseting....he does not even get a time in Q3..... :eek:


I wouldn't be so harsh on him this time... Q3 was purely a tactical move, and we will see how it plays out (I can't see it working well), that being said Rosberg is the only one who did set a better time than Q2... I bet the shoe would have outpaced him.

[AndyRAC]

Both Michael & the Mercedes team should move to Sportscars......

[ioan]

Well 10th to 6th looks like good racing to me! Much better then 1st to 4th.

[steveaki13]

Well 10th to 6th looks like good racing to me! Much better then 1st to 4th.

:up:

[Dave B]

Well 10th to 6th looks like good racing to me! Much better then 1st to 4th.
It was a good race from MS today. There's the question of whether it was simply down to being on a track which suits him, but for now let's give credit where it's due. :up:

[steveaki13]

You can only credit him with a good race today, other circuits another day, and another performance.

But for know Michael did a good job today.

[markabilly]

Well 10th to 6th looks like good racing to me! Much better then 1st to 4th.


:up: :up:

wonder if there was a deposit made before the race....

[52Paddy]

I agree, Michael performed well today. In a race which shifted around a lot, Michael saw through it and made a lot of headway on his grid position.

[steveaki13]

He also stated he was unhappy at the balance of his car. Assuming he may have fancied a go at Alonso had he had a better set up.

[ioan]

He also stated he was unhappy at the balance of his car. Assuming he may have fancied a go at Alonso had he had a better set up.

He's stated before the race that his aim is to fight the Ferraris.

[steveaki13]

Although another lap or two and Heidfeld would have passed them both in that race.

[ioan]

Most probably.

[donKey jote]

Michael who? :p

[Mark]

He's stated before the race that his aim is to fight the Ferraris.

He also said that Nico isn't better than him.

[ioan]

He also said that Nico isn't better than him.

Looks like he was right.

[markabilly]

Looks like he was right.

this time.......or was another ... oh well, never mind

[Dave B]

He also said that Nico isn't better than him.

One swallow does not a summer make.

A Scottish Herald front page, perhaps... :eek:

[Retro Formula 1]

Mediocre qualifying but great start to the race. Perhaps This is the kick start he needs or just a blip on the downward spiral?

[race_director]

Looks like he was right.

at age of 40 and still able to drive a f1 car that itself show's the greatness in him. regardless of he come 1st or 24th.

[52Paddy]

Well, he has made a better comeback than previous champions Nigel Mansell and Alan Jones. Who else failed miserably after making a comeback to the sport?

[SGWilko]

Well, he has made a better comeback than previous champions Nigel Mansell and Alan Jones. Who else failed miserably after making a comeback to the sport?

Our Noige's first comeback (in '94) resulted in a win. The '95 McLaren was about as good as B&Q self install shed (but not excusing Mansell's parking of it.....)

[V11]

He said himself he had poor balance in Barcelona, and still kept it ahead of Rosberg. Schumacher has had his share of DRS problems too. Still not totally convincing though, needs to string a few good races together.

[ArrowsFA1]

Here's a question: If we were talking about anyone other than Michael Schumacher how would we view the performances of Nico's team-mate?

[555-04Q2]

One swallow does not a summer make.

A Scottish Herald front page, perhaps... :eek:

Correct, but you can't argue with 7WDC, 91 wins, 68 poles and a gazillion points. I don't think Nico is better, just that he is younger, hungier and his mind/body more able than MS is today at 41.

[52Paddy]

Our Noige's first comeback (in '94) resulted in a win. The '95 McLaren was about as good as B&Q self install shed (but not excusing Mansell's parking of it.....)

That's true.

[jens]

Here's a question: If we were talking about anyone other than Michael Schumacher how would we view the performances of Nico's team-mate?

I guess generally he would be viewed in a similar manner to either current Webber or Massa. Also depends, at which stage of his career that "other" driver was. If he was a rookie, after every good race it would be said that "he is showing signs of maturity and coming good, a conceivable bet for a long-term future."

[Ranger]

Our Noige's first comeback (in '94) resulted in a win.

I would point out that, despite his brilliant pole position in Adelaide, by the time Hill and Schumacher crashed on lap 35 of 81, he was already some 40-45 seconds behind both of them... fairly ordinary by today's standards.

[Dave B]

Here's a question: If we were talking about anyone other than Michael Schumacher how would we view the performances of Nico's team-mate?

When he comprehensively whooped Nakajima there was a lot of speculation that it was becuase the Japanese driver was rubbish and only employed because he came free with the Toyota engine. But there's evidence to suggest that actually Rosberg is a lot better than many thought: he has been faster than Schumacher in the vast majority of practices, qualifying sessions and races.

[Sonic]

When he comprehensively whooped Nakajima there was a lot of speculation that it was becuase the Japanese driver was rubbish and only employed because he came free with the Toyota engine. But there's evidence to suggest that actually Rosberg is a lot better than many thought: he has been faster than Schumacher in the vast majority of practices, qualifying sessions and races.

Sing it brother!

[The Black Knight]

When he comprehensively whooped Nakajima there was a lot of speculation that it was becuase the Japanese driver was rubbish and only employed because he came free with the Toyota engine. But there's evidence to suggest that actually Rosberg is a lot better than many thought: he has been faster than Schumacher in the vast majority of practices, qualifying sessions and races.

I always regarded this as a lose, lose situation for Nico. If he were beaten by Schumacher then he is just another driver that couldn’t live with Schuey’s pace. If he beats Schumacher, then Schumacher is simply past it and not as good as he used to be.

It is clear to see from Schumacher’s performances that he isn’t as good as he used to be, but what is clear is that Nico is a very formidable opponent. How good Nico really is remains to be seen. For instance, based on what I’ve seen of him so far, I couldn’t put him in the same leagues as the top tier drivers such as Hamilton and Alonso. He may be there, I just haven’t seen it yet but he has shown flashes of brilliance.

[F1boat]

Correct, but you can't argue with 7WDC, 91 wins, 68 poles and a gazillion points. I don't think Nico is better, just that he is younger, hungier and his mind/body more able than MS is today at 41.

This!

[Retro Formula 1]

Correct, but you can't argue with 7WDC, 91 wins, 68 poles and a gazillion points. I don't think Nico is better, just that he is younger, hungier and his mind/body more able than MS is today at 41.

Whether or not you subscribe to the claim that MS would not have had the success he achieved without the preferential treatment and superior technology from both the FIA and Ferrari, I would be interested in understanding how you claim he is better than Nico when the younger driver is achieving the results, is hungrier and more able as you claim.

[BDunnell]

Whether or not you subscribe to the claim that MS would not have had the success he achieved without the preferential treatment and superior technology from both the FIA and Ferrari, I would be interested in understanding how you claim he is better than Nico when the younger driver is achieving the results, is hungrier and more able as you claim.

I would have thought that, in this instance, 'hungrier' and 'more able' mean 'better'!

[555-04Q2]

Whether or not you subscribe to the claim that MS would not have had the success he achieved without the preferential treatment and superior technology from both the FIA and Ferrari, I would be interested in understanding how you claim he is better than Nico when the younger driver is achieving the results, is hungrier and more able as you claim.

I never said MS was better than NR. I feel they are about on par with each other.

[555-04Q2]

[quote="henners88"]I take it you are referring to a Michael in his prime?[quote]

Yes.

[555-04Q2]

Fair enough.
Just think if Nico was just 14 years older he could be a 7 times WDC right now. Wrong era eh Nic :)

Wrong era, wrong car and wrong negotiating abilities :(

[The Black Knight]

Fair enough.
Just think if Nico was just 14 years older he could be a 7 times WDC right now. Wrong era eh Nic :)

I doubt it. I don't believe he has the ruthlessness that Schuey had. I don't believe Schuey would have had 7 WDC's without that. He is definitely worth a couple of WDC though.

[Koz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXr9km0o1U4 :D

[steveaki13]

I doubt it. I don't believe he has the ruthlessness that Schuey had. I don't believe Schuey would have had 7 WDC's without that. He is definitely worth a couple of WDC though.

Not to be boring or negative. :o

But your not worth any WDC unless you actually put a championship winning season together. ;)

[markabilly]

yeah, michael seems to be a bit behind nico.......again

[ioan]

On a par? I take it you are referring to a Michael in his prime?

Rubbish. LOL!
No one compares to MS in his prime, much less NR. Remind us how much success has had NR in F1.

[ioan]

Whether or not you subscribe to the claim that MS would not have had the success he achieved without the preferential treatment and superior technology from both the FIA and Ferrari, I would be interested in understanding how you claim he is better than Nico when the younger driver is achieving the results, is hungrier and more able as you claim.

Same old, same old! :rolleyes:
It's obvious that changing user name doesn't help one.

[F1boat]

Rubbish. LOL!
No one compares to MS in his prime, much less NR. Remind us how much success has had NR in F1.

It is getting ridiculous, isn't it? Now because an old champion is way past his prime, some people claim that he is on par with a guy who never won anything in F1. This shows how much hate some people have for MS for owning their favorite drivers for so long. I wonder whether Makinen is judged in the WRC for his final season, Foyt in Indy Car, etc...

[Ranger]

Form is temporary, class is permanent.

The latter counts for little when comparing current performance of two drivers, which is independent of anything else.

[steveaki13]

It is getting ridiculous, isn't it? Now because an old champion is way past his prime, some people claim that he is on par with a guy who never won anything in F1. This shows how much hate some people have for MS for owning their favorite drivers for so long. I wonder whether Makinen is judged in the WRC for his final season, Foyt in Indy Car, etc...

:up:

Although Schumacher as you say is past his prime and Nico is certainly a very talented driver, to compare a driver yet to win a race to a man who won 91 and 7 world titles, is insane.

At this time, Nico is ahead of Michael at the moment but overall he does not compare yet.

If at the end of his career Rosberg has won 4 or 5 titles and won 50 odd races, then he is in the same ball park.

[markabilly]

:up:

.

At this time, Nico is ahead of Michael at the moment but overall he does not compare yet.

.

Weel at this time of the last practice, Micheal is ahead of Nico by over a minute a lap.

Of course, Nico will probably blame those new areo additions to the front of his car; you know, those things that look a lot like guardrails

[odykas]

MS parked at La Rascasse again :dozey:

DejaVu :p :

[donKey jote]

:laugh:

[The Black Knight]

Schumacher had a great race on Sunday until his retirement and he was comfortably faster than his teammate throughout, even passing him at Loews hairpin. Sometimes he was 2-3 seconds a lap faster than Nico and was the 4th quickest car on the circuit pumping in times comparable to the leaders after his first pit stop. It appears there were no issues with Nico’s car but he did say that he wasn’t at his best. It was one of those days for Mercedes.

[Big Ben]

MS parked at La Rascasse again :dozey:



DejaVu :p :

he was just making a point. it can happen! what else could he have achieved from this race?

[555-04Q2]

MS parked at La Rascasse again :dozey:

DejaVu :p :

Surprised they didn't penalise him again...

[Cooper_S]

maybe because he is not black?

[IceWizard]

Schumacher had a great race on Sunday until his retirement and he was comfortably faster than his teammate throughout, even passing him at Loews hairpin. Sometimes he was 2-3 seconds a lap faster than Nico and was the 4th quickest car on the circuit pumping in times comparable to the leaders after his first pit stop. It appears there were no issues with Nico’s car but he did say that he wasn’t at his best. It was one of those days for Mercedes.

I thought it was an impressive performance until his car stopped. No reason at all to retire again if driving F1 is what he wants to do. There are other drivers far less deserving of a place on the 2011 grid.

[555-04Q2]

maybe because he is not black?

:laugh:

[steveaki13]

I thought it was an impressive performance until his car stopped. No reason at all to retire again if driving F1 is what he wants to do. There are other drivers far less deserving of a place on the 2011 grid.

While I agree that he shouldn't retire if he feels fit and wants to try and carry on, a reason he may have to retire is if Mercedes want to move him along.

[Cooper_S]

While I agree that he shouldn't retire if he feels fit and wants to try and carry on, a reason he may have to retire is if Mercedes want to move him along.

They won't do anything during the season, it is evident even after only 6 races that they are not going to be title contenders so are pobably only aiming for that maiden win or even just podiums now

[ioan]

Why should he call it quits?
He's doing what he likes to do and on top of that, according to Forbes, he's the F1 driver earning most during the last year, the only F1 driver in top 10:

Full List: The World's 50 Highest-Paid Athletes - No. 9 Michael Schumacher - Forbes.com (http://www.forbes.com/2011/05/31/highest-paid-athletes_slide_10.html)

[jens]

I think the question shouldn't be whether MS should call it quits, but whether Mercedes should keep him.

[Roamy]

Well Villeneuve is going to punt one of the renault guys out of there and they we can all be talking sh!t and see a great rivalry

[Cooper_S]

I think the question shouldn't be whether MS should call it quits, but whether Mercedes should keep him.

well it isn't.

[ioan]

Well Villeneuve is going to punt one of the renault guys out of there and they we can all be talking sh!t and see a great rivalry

Yeah, sure. I am looking forward to the great JV vs Karthikeyan duels! :rotflmao:

[ioan]

I think the question shouldn't be whether MS should call it quits, but whether Mercedes should keep him.

And who would help testing and developing the car on the track? Haug himself?

MS might not be the same of 5 years ago when it comes to speed but sure is tops when it comes to technical knowledge of F1 car, Mercedes F1 (ex Honda) engineers acknowledged this last season.

[The Black Knight]

I think the question shouldn't be whether MS should call it quits, but whether Mercedes should keep him.

Why shouldn't they? He has done quite a good job this year. He is not the MS of old but he's far better than a lot of drivers on the circuit. Take into account as well that Rosberg is quite an underrated driver. I don't think he's far off MS's level in his hay day, though I don't believe he is as good as him.

Things that have made Schumacher look bad this year especially is the failure of his DRS in quali 2 China so he wasn't able to put in the laptime to make it to Q3. He has been quite unlucky. Overall he has done a quite outstanding job and was quicker than Rosberg in Monaco during the race as well, at one stage he was the fourth quickest car on the circuit apart from the leaders.

This is from the FIA Lap charts for Monaco and I took it from a user on another forum I use. Lap Chart (http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/mco-race-analysis.pdf)

Race history (http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/mco-race-history.pdf)

Lap Schu Rosberg
13 01:23.4
14 01:21.0
15 01:21.0 PIT
16 01:21.9 01:26.3
17 01:20.9 01:21.4
18 01:20.2 01:22.2
19 01:20.3 01:22.5
20 01:20.9 01:22.5
21 01:23.1 01:23.8
22 01:23.9 01:23.6
23 01:21.1 01:20.9
24 01:21.4 01:21.6
25 01:21.9 01:22.0
26 01:23.0 01:23.1
27 01:22.5 01:22.3
28 01:22.7 01:22.7
29 01:21.0 01:23.2
30 01:19.8 01:23.1
31 01:20.0 01:23.7
32 01:21.6 01:24.0

You can see that Schumacher is comfortably faster than his teammate after the first pitstop. He was lapping 2 seconds a lap quicker whenever he had some air. He overtook Rosberg on Lap 28, after which he really pulled away from Ros and built up an 8 second advantage in about 3.5 laps. Now you might argue that Rosberg was on the softs while MS was on the super softs, so here is another comparison :

Lap Rosberg Lap Schumacher
47 01:20.6 17 01:20.9
48 01:20.4 18 01:20.2
49 01:20.5 19 01:20.3
50 01:20.4 20 01:20.9
51 01:20.7
52 01:20.8

I'm comparing different times in the race here, but with both drivers on SS tyres and with a little bit of space in front of them. Rosberg, inspite of having a full 30 laps lesser fuel than Schumacher was lapping slower than Schumacher's first SS stint on a near full fuel load. Proof enough that MS was pretty much blitzing his teammate at Monaco and would have ended up a few positions up the road if not for his car failing on him.

Not bad for a 42 year old at all. Schumacher should keep going while he is still able to put in performances like this.

[ioan]

Why shouldn't they? He has done quite a good job this year. He is not the MS of old but he's far better than a lot of drivers on the circuit. Take into account as well that Rosberg is quite an underrated driver. I don't think he's far off MS's level in his hay day, though I don't believe he is as good as him.

Things that have made Schumacher look bad this year especially is the failure of his DRS in quali 2 China so he wasn't able to put in the laptime to make it to Q3. He has been quite unlucky. Overall he has done a quite outstanding job and was quicker than Rosberg in Monaco during the race as well, at one stage he was the fourth quickest car on the circuit apart from the leaders.

This is from the FIA Lap charts for Monaco and I took it from a user on another forum I use. Lap Chart (http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/mco-race-analysis.pdf)

Race history (http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/mco-race-history.pdf)

Lap Schu Rosberg
13 01:23.4
14 01:21.0
15 01:21.0 PIT
16 01:21.9 01:26.3
17 01:20.9 01:21.4
18 01:20.2 01:22.2
19 01:20.3 01:22.5
20 01:20.9 01:22.5
21 01:23.1 01:23.8
22 01:23.9 01:23.6
23 01:21.1 01:20.9
24 01:21.4 01:21.6
25 01:21.9 01:22.0
26 01:23.0 01:23.1
27 01:22.5 01:22.3
28 01:22.7 01:22.7
29 01:21.0 01:23.2
30 01:19.8 01:23.1
31 01:20.0 01:23.7
32 01:21.6 01:24.0

You can see that Schumacher is comfortably faster than his teammate after the first pitstop. He was lapping 2 seconds a lap quicker whenever he had some air. He overtook Rosberg on Lap 28, after which he really pulled away from Ros and built up an 8 second advantage in about 3.5 laps. Now you might argue that Rosberg was on the softs while MS was on the super softs, so here is another comparison :

Lap Rosberg Lap Schumacher
47 01:20.6 17 01:20.9
48 01:20.4 18 01:20.2
49 01:20.5 19 01:20.3
50 01:20.4 20 01:20.9
51 01:20.7
52 01:20.8

I'm comparing different times in the race here, but with both drivers on SS tyres and with a little bit of space in front of them. Rosberg, inspite of having a full 30 laps lesser fuel than Schumacher was lapping slower than Schumacher's first SS stint on a near full fuel load. Proof enough that MS was pretty much blitzing his teammate at Monaco and would have ended up a few positions up the road if not for his car failing on him.

Not bad for a 42 year old at all. Schumacher should keep going while he is still able to put in performances like this.

Thanks for that! :up:

[Big Ben]

That´s quite right. He's not an idiot for staying. They are idiots for keeping him. They could get the same points by getting someone who's willing to pay for a drive

[Cooper_S]

there is no proof to that statement.... having the 42 year old 7 time champion brings in more money to the team than any rent a driver could, and as others have amply shown Schumacher is actually holding his own against Rosberg (he is after all only 14 points adrift after 6 races under the new points system and having suffered 2 DNF to Rosbergs 1)

[steveaki13]

Why shouldn't they? He has done quite a good job this year. He is not the MS of old but he's far better than a lot of drivers on the circuit. Take into account as well that Rosberg is quite an underrated driver. I don't think he's far off MS's level in his hay day, though I don't believe he is as good as him.

Things that have made Schumacher look bad this year especially is the failure of his DRS in quali 2 China so he wasn't able to put in the laptime to make it to Q3. He has been quite unlucky. Overall he has done a quite outstanding job and was quicker than Rosberg in Monaco during the race as well, at one stage he was the fourth quickest car on the circuit apart from the leaders.

This is from the FIA Lap charts for Monaco and I took it from a user on another forum I use. Lap Chart (http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/mco-race-analysis.pdf)

Race history (http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/mco-race-history.pdf)

Lap Schu Rosberg
13 01:23.4
14 01:21.0
15 01:21.0 PIT
16 01:21.9 01:26.3
17 01:20.9 01:21.4
18 01:20.2 01:22.2
19 01:20.3 01:22.5
20 01:20.9 01:22.5
21 01:23.1 01:23.8
22 01:23.9 01:23.6
23 01:21.1 01:20.9
24 01:21.4 01:21.6
25 01:21.9 01:22.0
26 01:23.0 01:23.1
27 01:22.5 01:22.3
28 01:22.7 01:22.7
29 01:21.0 01:23.2
30 01:19.8 01:23.1
31 01:20.0 01:23.7
32 01:21.6 01:24.0

You can see that Schumacher is comfortably faster than his teammate after the first pitstop. He was lapping 2 seconds a lap quicker whenever he had some air. He overtook Rosberg on Lap 28, after which he really pulled away from Ros and built up an 8 second advantage in about 3.5 laps. Now you might argue that Rosberg was on the softs while MS was on the super softs, so here is another comparison :

Lap Rosberg Lap Schumacher
47 01:20.6 17 01:20.9
48 01:20.4 18 01:20.2
49 01:20.5 19 01:20.3
50 01:20.4 20 01:20.9
51 01:20.7
52 01:20.8

I'm comparing different times in the race here, but with both drivers on SS tyres and with a little bit of space in front of them. Rosberg, inspite of having a full 30 laps lesser fuel than Schumacher was lapping slower than Schumacher's first SS stint on a near full fuel load. Proof enough that MS was pretty much blitzing his teammate at Monaco and would have ended up a few positions up the road if not for his car failing on him.

Not bad for a 42 year old at all. Schumacher should keep going while he is still able to put in performances like this.

Good Work.

I think Michael can still get some good points this season.

Lets hope he has a good race in Canada.

[ShiftingGears]

Yeah, sure. I am looking forward to the great JV vs Karthikeyan duels! :rotflmao:

Ha!

[N. Jones]

He needs to move along. Getting beat by Rosberg most of the time, not being anywhere near a podium place. It's time to call it a career.

[Cooper_S]

He needs to move along. Getting beat by Rosberg most of the time, not being anywhere near a podium place. It's time to call it a career.

LOL, Such hypocritical comments I have never heard...

Anyone of us would love to keep doing a job we love and get paid acording to Forbes $34m to do it... to say you wouldn't is a lie.

It is self evident only those who never were fans of his now call for him to quit ... its sooooo perdictable it actually quite funny.

[ioan]

LOL, Such hypocritical comments I have never heard...

Anyone of us would love to keep doing a job we love and get paid acording to Forbes $34m to do it... to say you wouldn't is a lie.

It is self evident only those who never were fans of his now call for him to quit ... its sooooo perdictable it actually quite funny.

Funny? No way, it's downright hilarious. :D

[ReNoir]

Well, I think he still has a place in mercedes, like others have said, he knows how to develop a car. Mercedes is still doing better than last year and he himself said it takes three years to get a team up and going - so I say give him a few more and then we'll see.

[ArrowsFA1]

Anyone of us would love to keep doing a job we love and get paid acording to Forbes $34m to do it... to say you wouldn't is a lie.
Of course, but that's not really the point is it. Mercedes aren't paying Michael simply to indulge him, or to fulfill his wish to go racing and have fun. They employ him to help develop the team and produce results.

[Retro Formula 1]

Same old, same old! :rolleyes:
It's obvious that changing user name doesn't help one.

:laugh: Comment on the poster and not the post when you have no answer. Same ole, same ole :laugh:

[Cooper_S]

Of course, but that's not really the point is it. Mercedes aren't paying Michael simply to indulge him, or to fulfill his wish to go racing and have fun. They employ him to help develop the team and produce results.

True, but they also employ him for other things he brings to the team out of the car... and as has been said over again but so often ignored he is a mere 14 points behind Rosberg but has had two retirements in 6 races.

I see nothing to suggest he should quit other than the perdictable desire by those who never have a good word to say about him in the first place.

[jens]

It is being said that Schumacher helps developing the car, but there is very little testing nowadays and Mercedes doesn't seem to be improving much anyway. I'd be more interested to see, what can someone like di Resta do in that seat. I'm surprised that MS fans are now satisfied to see him being basically a second driver in a team.

[ioan]

I'm surprised that MS fans are now satisfied to see him being basically a second driver in a team.

It's just a matter of perception. We don't see any 2nd driver in the team, after all this ain't Ferrari we are talking about

[ioan]

:laugh: Comment on the poster and not the post when you have no answer. Same ole, same ole :laugh:

That was my answer. Go back under your rock.

[ioan]

Theres no question though that Michael is treated equally to Nico but is coming home most of the time in a second driver position. I don't believe Schuey is competing simply for fun anymore, in fact he said the BBC that he has been left frustrated on occasion and the second half of the season is make or break for him in terms of next year. I certainly don't think Mercedes would sack a driver of his calibre but I do think the end of his career is close and will end on his terms.

Don't tell me you believe the crap that Bundle and DC talk about MS? The chips on their shoulders are well known to everybody.
Sure he's been frustrated, who wouldn't have been, however I didn't hear anything about make or break 2nd half.
He will go to the end of his contract, no question about it, cause he never quits, and why should he when he can still qualify 5th in Monaco only 2 tenths behind Alonso, who many consider to be on top of his game!

[Cooper_S]

I'm surprised that MS fans are now satisfied to see him being basically a second driver in a team.

Simples... after 154 podiums, 91 wins, 68 poles and 7 titles and a 3 year break from the sport most Schumacher fans like me do not need him to add to this impressive tally, we are simply happy he is still out there... how many fans have had the chance to have a driver they support return to race again 3 years after it looked like they had retired forever...

Personally speaking as a career long Schumacher fan I in the 3 years he was no longer active I started to look to the likes Vettel and Hamilton to cheer to victory, His return while welcome has not changed that. All I now ask of him in this his comeback year(s) is to beat Rubens.... so far so good... LOL

[Cooper_S]

I am able to form my own opinions from watching the man speak for himself in interviews and don't rely on Brundle or DC to help me. The two have always made clear they have had run in's with Michael but have always commended him on his ability and produced a fair analysis on his return from what I have seen. Michael is looking increasingly frustrated after races and it was simply a judgement from myself that I feel he will step away at the end of the season. He may not of course but with Di Resta being kept in the wings, it would make sense if there was a need for a replacement. :)

I agree totally he returned in part because he wanted to have fun but you don't win 91 GP's without being highly competitive... He announced a 3 year comeback which surprised me, and after a really tough first season back it was touch and go if he would race in 2011... he is having a far better season this year compared to 2010 but that is not hard... with 13/14 races still to go I doubt he is frustrated enough to be considering it just yet.

[Roamy]

No driver in the top 10 should call it quits - period - end of story

[Dave B]

Well now, as I type this the poll is split exactly 50.0%! So a year into this thread, what have we learned? Bog all, I'd say!

[ArrowsFA1]

I think it's generally accepted that Michael was eased out at Ferrari earlier than he would have chosen and that probably played a part in him wanting to return. Had he walked away from the sport at a time and a place of his chosing then I doubt whether he would have come back.

Sadly, I think the decision to quit now may be more about what Mercedes want than Michael making the decision himself because IMHO Michael is not the driver he was before he retired.

That might be down to three factors: 1) his age, 2) the car and 3) the effects of his neck injury.

I don't think age is particularly significant. Of course he is competing against much younger drivers but, as before, MS remains one of the fittest drivers on the grid. The one area his age does make a difference is in the time it will take to get Mercedes to the front of the grid. He had that time at Ferrari, but not now.

The Mercedes, clearly, is no match for the Red Bull. It's not going to win races in normal circumstances. Years ago Michael could win races in a car that was not the best on the grid, but not now. However I do think he's still capable of winning races...if he had a Red Bull, or if Mercedes build a winning car.

Finally, his neck injury. I do wonder what effect this has had. Obviously it prevented him making his return with Ferrari but supposedly all is now ok but could the lingering effects be enough to have affected his performance? Months after his accident at Goodwood Stirling Moss tested at the same circuit. His times were competitive but he felt driving, racing, was no longer automatic. He had to think about what had previously been second nature. Now obviously circumstances were different but being competitive in F1 is all about small margins and maybe, just maybe, Michael's injury has had an effect.

[Cooper_S]

That is a fair assesment.

[ioan]

Finally, his neck injury. I do wonder what effect this has had. Obviously it prevented him making his return with Ferrari but supposedly all is now ok but could the lingering effects be enough to have affected his performance? Months after his accident at Goodwood Stirling Moss tested at the same circuit. His times were competitive but he felt driving, racing, was no longer automatic. He had to think about what had previously been second nature. Now obviously circumstances were different but being competitive in F1 is all about small margins and maybe, just maybe, Michael's injury has had an effect.

I do not believe that he is psychologically affected by that bike accident. After all he broke his leg in Silverstone back in 99 then came back to win 5 championships like if nothing ever happened.

MS is having a hard time qualifying towards the sharp end of the grid but he is having good race pace which is a positive sign and what counts most.

[rjbetty]

A main reason Michael could win in a bad car but Nico hasn't is that, is that Michael was up against Damon Hill, David Coulthard, Jean Alesi, Gerhard Berger and Heinz-Harald Frentzen in the top cars... Now its Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel etc... and cars are almost perfect reliable these days, all random factors seem to get taken out of the sport. There also used to be gravel traps!!! So when a river went off, his day was over. These factors make it much harder to win in a bad car these days. So much so, when was the last time this happened - Alonso Japan 2008 maybe?

[Stuartf12007]

not until the end of the season

[Cooper_S]

not until the end of the season

2012 Season... ;)

[David Fontes]

Yes, we all agree at our shop this man needs to retire. Steve Mc Queen made a state ment when he was young, when I need glasses to see then I'll retire, You are a vetren know, be a team player and support Nico, dont be a fool you were young and fast at one time, You will always be a herro

[ioan]

Yes, we all agree at our shop this man needs to retire. Steve Mc Queen made a state ment when he was young, when I need glasses to see then I'll retire, You are a vetren know, be a team player and support Nico, dont be a fool you were young and fast at one time, You will always be a herro

Is that some liquor shop you're talking about?

[steveaki13]

If he was off the back, like Badoer in the Ferrari in 2009, when a fast car was 50 seconds behind the rest, then he should be calling it quits.

When he Qualifies and races in the top 5 or 6 at some events, I think thats a solid enough Job.

[ioan]

Definitely not!
What a great race he did today in Canada!

[tfp]

Incredible drive for schuey, I was sitting on the fence about whether he should retire or not, but now I know he should stay:-)

[Daniel]

50% of people voting in the poll are idiots.

[Robinho]

he drove a great race, loads of passes and nearly hung on for a podium

[UltimateDanGTR]

50% of people voting in the poll are idiots.

here, here.

[Koz]

Brilliant race! If not DRS he would have held on for that podium!

[donKey jote]

should he call it quits after his display today?



yes! and leave on top again :p

[donKey jote]

here, here.
wear, wear? :laugh:

[Cooper_S]

here, here.

wear, wear? :laugh:

There, there...

[donKey jote]

sure you don't mean their they're ? :dozey: :p

[The Black Knight]

What a great race from Schumacher. I was on the edge of my seat. In my heart I knew that, with DRS, he wouldn't be able to fend off Webber and Button till the end but I was hoping he would be able to. If it had stayed wet he may very well have won. He gets drive of the race. To drive like he did with the car he had was unreal. It was his best driver since his comeback, and he showed he still has got what it takes to win races and, most importantly, I now believe he can be World Champion again if he is given the right car.

[ShiftingGears]

Excellent race for Schumacher today. He is now equal on points with Rosberg.

[i_max2k2]

Excellent race for Schumacher today. He is now equal on points with Rosberg.

And ahead of him in the standings, drove a perfect race today, I can safely say Schumacher is back in F1.

[The Black Knight]

And ahead of him in the standings, drove a perfect race today, I can safely say Schumacher is back in F1.
Well, there have been signs lately that he is coming back to form. Hopefully this is the beginning of something big :)

What really struck me when watching him ahead of Webber and Button was how much braver than either of them he was. He was ringing the neck of the car to stay ahead of them. He was the best driver today. Button as great, but Schumacher was the best. Drive of the day goes to Schumacher.

[Allyc85]

Great performance from MS today and although ive hated him for years, I wanted to either see him beat Vettel or at least get on the podium.

[tfp]

Well, there have been signs lately that he is coming back to form. Hopefully this is the beginning of something big :)

What really struck me when watching him ahead of Webber and Button was how much braver than either of them he was. He was ringing the neck of the car to stay ahead of them. He was the best driver today. Button as great, but Schumacher was the best. Drive of the day goes to Schumacher.

And he diddnt make a mistake when he was tailgating, like quick nick!

[The Black Knight]

And he diddnt make a mistake when he was tailgating, like quick nick!
That's the difference between a WDC and the next best I guess...

[tfp]

That's the difference between a WDC and the next best I guess...

Black knight, I found a video of you on youtube...
YouTube - ‪Monty Python-The Black Knight‬‏ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKhEw7nD9C4)

:-)

[52Paddy]

Fantastic showing from MS today. Despite following him since the beginning of the 'Schumacher era' (circa 2000), that is the time when I was mostly on the edge of my seat watching him. He looked really settled and drove very confidently today, displaying superb defensive skills against Button and Webber, even if he did lose out to them in the end.

[steveaki13]

Greatb drive from Michael today.

He looked at home in the car at a circuit he loves.

Drove fast in the wet and passed cars 12th to 5th, then in the dry he was on the ragged edge flinging his car around to keep ahead of Webber and Button. He surely would have without DRS. Should have been 2nd at least today. Hard luck.

The only thing I question is the ammount of people saying he should now stay after that result.

I felt he should always have stayed and battled on, but if you were of the opposite opinion, I think one race shouldn't change your mind. If it does then you must have believed in him secretly all along.

[555-04Q2]

Great drive from The Shoe :up:

His performance today brought back fond memories for me. Lets hope his last few performances are a sign of a giant waking from his slumber :)

[F1boat]

Michael did a solid race. I am a bit disappointed that he missed the podium.

[Roamy]

No but after today he should suck Button's dick :)

[Koz]

No but after today he should suck Button's dick :)

Really?

[52Paddy]

No but after today he should suck Button's dick :)

Wrong website there mate ;)

[Roamy]

you know all this horsesh!t - rainmiester - greatest ever - bla bla bla - MS cheated his way to 7 championships - if you guys are too dumb to understand
this then I feel for you. MS is a very good pilot but not in the class that some of you would like to put him in. Think of it this way Damon Hill could have had
the same record had he driven for Ferrari during the same era as MS

[The Black Knight]

you know all this horsesh!t - rainmiester - greatest ever - bla bla bla - MS cheated his way to 7 championships - if you guys are too dumb to understand
this then I feel for you. MS is a very good pilot but not in the class that some of you would like to put him in. Think of it this way Damon Hill could have had
the same record had he driven for Ferrari during the same era as MS

LOL This has to be one of the funniest and incredibly uninformed posts I've ever read.

[SGWilko]

I think it's generally accepted that Michael was eased out at Ferrari earlier than he would have chosen and that probably played a part in him wanting to return. Had he walked away from the sport at a time and a place of his chosing then I doubt whether he would have come back.

Sadly, I think the decision to quit now may be more about what Mercedes want than Michael making the decision himself because IMHO Michael is not the driver he was before he retired.

That might be down to three factors: 1) his age, 2) the car and 3) the effects of his neck injury.

I don't think age is particularly significant. Of course he is competing against much younger drivers but, as before, MS remains one of the fittest drivers on the grid. The one area his age does make a difference is in the time it will take to get Mercedes to the front of the grid. He had that time at Ferrari, but not now.

The Mercedes, clearly, is no match for the Red Bull. It's not going to win races in normal circumstances. Years ago Michael could win races in a car that was not the best on the grid, but not now. However I do think he's still capable of winning races...if he had a Red Bull, or if Mercedes build a winning car.

Finally, his neck injury. I do wonder what effect this has had. Obviously it prevented him making his return with Ferrari but supposedly all is now ok but could the lingering effects be enough to have affected his performance? Months after his accident at Goodwood Stirling Moss tested at the same circuit. His times were competitive but he felt driving, racing, was no longer automatic. He had to think about what had previously been second nature. Now obviously circumstances were different but being competitive in F1 is all about small margins and maybe, just maybe, Michael's injury has had an effect.

I think the Shoe is still the best available driver for the second Merc seat. Also, I rather suspect the marketing value of the Shoe to Merc is priceless. Besides, you are only as good as your last race, which for the old boy was not too shabby......

[Ranger]

He turned back the years with that drive, brilliant.

[MrJan]

LOL This has to be one of the funniest and incredibly uninformed posts I've ever read.

One thing you will soon realise with this forum is that, in nearly all cases, Roamy (aka Fousto) is wrong :D

[Mark]

One thing you will soon realise with this forum is that, in nearly all cases, Roamy (aka Fousto) is wrong :D

Except in this instance ;)

[MrJan]

Except in this instance ;)

So I'm not allowed to say that Ryan Giggs was alledgedly knobbing Imogen Thomas, but you are happy to bodly make the accusation that "MS cheated his way to 7 championships"? :D Double standards if you ask me :p :

[Mark]

:laugh: No of course he didn't cheat. But the argument that another driver could have won the championship in the Ferrari from 2000-2005 has some merit.

[MrJan]

:laugh: No of course he didn't cheat. But the argument that another driver could have won the championship in the Ferrari from 2000-2005 has some merit.

Yeah but saying Damon Hill could've won is a bit too far.....for a start Rubens would've beaten him ;)

[555-04Q2]

you know all this horsesh!t - rainmiester - greatest ever - bla bla bla - MS cheated his way to 7 championships - if you guys are too dumb to understand
this then I feel for you. MS is a very good pilot but not in the class that some of you would like to put him in. Think of it this way Damon Hill could have had
the same record had he driven for Ferrari during the same era as MS

Nurse, you forgot to give Fousto his medication this evening :p :

[555-04Q2]

So I'm not allowed to say that Ryan Giggs was alledgedly knobbing Imogen Thomas, but you are happy to bodly make the accusation that "MS cheated his way to 7 championships"? :D Double standards if you ask me :p :

Yes he cheated. As Bernie mentioned in his book, " they all cheat in F1, just the stupid ones get caught!"

[The Black Knight]

:laugh: No of course he didn't cheat. But the argument that another driver could have won the championship in the Ferrari from 2000-2005 has some merit.

I'm sure one could argue that with regards many drivers championships. Plenty of drivers could have won in the 1998 and 1999 McLaren, or the 92, 96 Williams, 1988-1989 McLaren etc

In fact, for every championship Ayrton had I could say definitely that had you put another driver in the car they could have won it. Does that then devalue his championships? Nope. Likewise it doesn't devalue Schumacher's either.

[Whyzars]

Button might also like to get down on his knee's to whoever decided to activate the DRS. Without the abomination that is the DRS, Schumacher may have held on to at least one of the podium places but with it, he was absolutely no chance. Button may not have worked his way from last to first without the abomination that is the DRS either.

The abomination that is the DRS may give us lots of overtaking, Yay, but it removes any chance of a slower car defending against a faster car which is the circumstance that provides truly great racing

Now, can we finally get rid of this pox on F1 once and for all.

[ioan]

No but after today he should suck Button's dick :)

Did that help JV in the past?

[ioan]

:laugh: No of course he didn't cheat. But the argument that another driver could have won the championship in the Ferrari from 2000-2005 has some merit.

Sure, sure, that's why Rubens didn't.

[ioan]

I'm sure one could argue that with regards many drivers championships. Plenty of drivers could have won in the 1998 and 1999 McLaren, or the 92, 96 Williams, 1988-1989 McLaren etc

In fact, for every championship Ayrton had I could say definitely that had you put another driver in the car they could have won it. Does that then devalue his championships? Nope. Likewise it doesn't devalue Schumacher's either.

:up:

[ioan]

Button might also like to get down on his knee's to whoever decided to activate the DRS. Without the abomination that is the DRS, Schumacher may have held on to at least one of the podium places but with it, he was absolutely no chance. Button may not have worked his way from last to first without the abomination that is the DRS either.

The abomination that is the DRS may give us lots of overtaking, Yay, but it removes any chance of a slower car defending against a faster car which is the circumstance that provides truly great racing

Now, can we finally get rid of this pox on F1 once and for all.

No way they will remove DRS it's been voted to stay beyond 2013. :\

[i_max2k2]

http://www.motorsportforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by The Black Knight http://www.motorsportforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.motorsportforums.com/f1/139061-schumacher-should-he-call-quits-post932398.html#post932398)
I'm sure one could argue that with regards many drivers championships. Plenty of drivers could have won in the 1998 and 1999 McLaren, or the 92, 96 Williams, 1988-1989 McLaren etc

In fact, for every championship Ayrton had I could say definitely that had you put another driver in the car they could have won it. Does that then devalue his championships? Nope. Likewise it doesn't devalue Schumacher's either.
:up:

And we can add 2009, and 2010 to those championships as well, and if Red Bull, er Vettel goes on to win this years championship as well.

[pino]

50% of people voting in the poll are idiots.

:wave: Thanks :D

[Garry Walker]

Not bad for a pensioneer.





In fact, for every championship Ayrton had I could say definitely that had you put another driver in the car they could have won it. McLaren wasnt even the best car in 1990 or 1991 so how could another driver have won it? Berger was a good driver, but he didnt win (he was at least as good as Mansell)


No way they will remove DRS it's been voted to stay beyond 2013. :\
I hope you are joking?

[The Black Knight]

Not bad for a pensioneer.


McLaren wasnt even the best car in 1990 or 1991 so how could another driver have won it? Berger was a good driver, but he didnt win (he was at least as good as Mansell)


I hope you are joking?

2000 Ferrari wasn't even the best car either so how could another driver have won it?

Apply your answer to above post.

[Garry Walker]

2000 Ferrari wasn't even the best car either so how could another driver have won it?

Apply your answer to above post.

You answer it.

[The Black Knight]

You answer it.
I just did.

[SGWilko]

:wave: Thanks :D

No bother - 42.651% of all statistics are made up! ;)