Miller: multiple chassis and manufacturers "very likely"

[Scotty G.]

Some of this is rehash from what he said on WT last night...

Miller said on Indy local radio this afternoon, that its "very likely" that there will be 2 or 3 chassis and 2 or 3 engine manufacturers when all the smoke clears.

Mentioned Ford, Audi, Volkswagen, Honda and "a big manufacturer overseas" as being very interested. Talked about people "coming back" to Indy Cars and the Indy 500 again. That screams "Ford" to me.


Said there will be "different looking cars" at the Indy 500 again. But no Delta Wing. Will be MUCH cheaper and many different folks "could" get involved again. They stole many of the thoughts that Bowlby had and transferred them to what will be announced on Wednesday.

Bernard attended his first ever USAC sprint car event at Kokomo on Sunday and "was blown away" with the horsepower the cars have and with the crowds (4 to 5 thousand in attendance) that were there to support different drivers. He now understands first-hand the disconnect that exists between that portion of AOW and Indy Cars and now "wants to get them back". Smart man, since that portion makes up the vast majority of AOW.

[NickFalzone]

Interesting, if true. I did not expect this to happen, fully expected the new car to be another spec Dallara/Honda with maybe a 2nd engine manufacturer. This is great news though if it pans out. If it does, I would put money on the fact that it is basically a hail mary for the series. They can clearly see that what they are doing now is just not happening with the casual fanbase, and the hardcore fanbase is shrinking. Multiple manufacturers both engine and chassis will bring a lot of fan talk and energy back into the series. It may or may not ultimately work out, but I think that doing essentially what they've been doing for the last decade has not worked out, so in spite of some likely internal disagreement about how to go forward, this was the most logical way to go. The series was more popular back when there was technical development and competition, so why not try going back to that and see if it gets the series going again in terms of popularity.

[NickFalzone]

Also, I haven't been following all the rumors closely, but is the concensus now that we'll have new engines for the 2012 season, and the new chassis's by 2013?

[DBell]

Also, I haven't been following all the rumors closely, but is the concensus now that we'll have new engines for the 2012 season, and the new chassis's by 2013?

I don't know the answer to the question, but that scenario doesn't make sense to me. If they introduce the engine first, there would seem to be a significant cost to retro fitting the new engines and all the components into the old Dallara. Just to use it for one year. Then bring in a new chassis the next year? Seems like in the long run that it would end up costing more than introducing them together.

[NickFalzone]

I don't know the answer to the question, but that scenario doesn't make sense to me. If they introduce the engine first, there would seem to be a significant cost to retro fitting the new engines and all the components into the old Dallara. Just to use it for one year. Then bring in a new chassis the next year? Seems like in the long run that it would end up costing more than introducing them together.

I agree. Unless what Scott says above is true, which is that the current Dallaras will be an option for teams to use in 2013 along with whatever the other chassis' are out there. So in that case, the engine(s) need to be fitted to the Dallara anyway, and that will be one retrofit out of the way before 2013. My guess is that they will try to standardize the engine fit across all chassis' as well so it is not as much of an issue.

[speeddurango]

As far as I have learned from all the rumors flying around for months, it will likely not be a fixed number of manufactures kind of competition of chassis, it will rather be a set of rules around which any willing participants can build their car, and thus far we have 3 makers already which is good.

[Easy Drifter]

Next we need to get Bernard to the Knoxville Ntls.
And anyone on here who does not know what they are really does not know motor racing.

[naracingfan]

I've only heard Dallara and Lola definitely being there, and DW definitely not being there. Are BAT & Swift going to show up?

[Lousada]

Bernard attended his first ever USAC sprint car event at Kokomo on Sunday and "was blown away" with the horsepower the cars have and with the crowds (4 to 5 thousand in attendance) that were there to support different drivers. He now understands first-hand the disconnect that exists between that portion of AOW and Indy Cars and now "wants to get them back". Smart man, since that portion makes up the vast majority of AOW.

Wait, isn't that what the "vision" was all about??

[I am evil Homer]

I'd be surprised if VW and Audi were in given they're the same parent company and Audi is very much the LMS brand for VAG, while SEAT is the touring car brand. "Big overseas" is more likely to be Toyota now it has an engine factory in Germany sitting pretty empty.

[Redstorm]

the only question is would they run as VW in Indy and run the Audis in ALMS? I think they will run both as Audi so they can advertise as "winners of Le Mans and the 500" or something to that nature.

Multiple engines/chassis is great news!

[I am evil Homer]

Agreed...it was more people throwing both names out there when they're the same company. On the face of it though this sounds like positive news

[Mark in Oshawa]

Wait, isn't that what the "vision" was all about??

It was what we were told it was.....but I think the problem is too many people still think those people at the Sprint Car races can relate to Indy. The reality is a Sprint Car fan is more likely to watch NASCAR because rear engined cars with wings like an Indy car have little relevence to the guys sideways on dirt. The disconnect started in the 70's....

When the likes of Jan Opperman didn't go to Indy as the next step of the ladder, the thread was pulled tight, and when guys like Dave Blaney and Steve Kinser blazed a trail to NASCAR, the thread was snapped with Ryan Newman and Kasey Kahne and the like.

I don't know how Bernard can get these fans back easily. Tony George played lip service to it, but I don't really know what was done....


AS for the chassis and manfacturers (the thread's theme right?? lol), the more the better the sooner.

[00steven]

This will be very good for the sport, I'm exited to hear the announcement tommorow.

[Scotty G.]

I don't know how Bernard can get these fans back easily.


Having 2 or 3 USAC grads in the series and at Indy would be a start.

Not looking down on them (the drivers and fans) as some kind of 2nd class citizens, would be a big start.

Not just "talking" about wanting them back in the sport, but actually putting your $$$ where your mouth is, would be a nice change.

Realizing that the oval track portion of AOW is a heck of a lot bigger then the road racing portion and understanding there is a loyal fanbase out there, would be nice.

Trying to connect (like Bernard appears like he wants to) at local tracks with "REAL" AOW fans (like NASCAR's people did in the late 80's and 90's) would be a huge step in the right direction.


I don't think anyone thinks the Indy 500 should be made up of 25 USAC oval track grads. But it can't be made up of none either (which could happen soon once Hamilton and Fisher retire). Just a few, in stable, half-way decent rides, would probably be enough to reconnect many fans who left the sport and have no interest any more in Indy Cars.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Having 2 or 3 USAC grads in the series and at Indy would be a start.

Not looking down on them (the drivers and fans) as some kind of 2nd class citizens, would be a big start.

Not just "talking" about wanting them back in the sport, but actually putting your $$$ where your mouth is, would be a nice change.

Realizing that the oval track portion of AOW is a heck of a lot bigger then the road racing portion and understanding there is a loyal fanbase out there, would be nice.

Trying to connect (like Bernard appears like he wants to) at local tracks with "REAL" AOW fans (like NASCAR's people did in the late 80's and 90's) would be a huge step in the right direction.


I don't think anyone thinks the Indy 500 should be made up of 25 USAC oval track grads. But it can't be made up of none either (which could happen soon once Hamilton and Fisher retire). Just a few, in stable, half-way decent rides, would probably be enough to reconnect many fans who left the sport and have no interest any more in Indy Cars.

You are still presupposing that there is some secret cabal of idiots out there keeping USAC grads out of Indy cars for purely stupid motives.

Hamilton and Fisher's track record indicates accuately what you ignore. They don't have the skill set from driving a midget or sprint car to adapt to a rear engined winged car. THAT is why all these posers from Europe and road racers race Indy cars. It is easy to demonize the team owners as idiots, but the fact is guys like Chip Ganassi and Roger Penske aren't looking in USAC to find Indycar drivers, and they want to just win. If the USAC guys had the skill set, you would see Penske and Ganassi looking for these guys.....

Roger did look in USAC for drivers....and he found one. His name was Ryan Newman and it was obvious that his skill set and instincts honed in dirt cars would work better in NASCAR.

You can rail against the evil owners all you like, the fact is driving a sprint car is better training to drive NASCAR and not a modern Indy car. Unless Indy went back to being a track where you raced a modern version of the roadster, this will not change.

[penske15]

I agree. Unless what Scott says above is true, which is that the current Dallaras will be an option for teams to use in 2013 along with whatever the other chassis' are out there. So in that case, the engine(s) need to be fitted to the Dallara anyway, and that will be one retrofit out of the way before 2013. My guess is that they will try to standardize the engine fit across all chassis' as well so it is not as much of an issue.
that is easy to do. with the alluminum bulkhead that fits to the back of the chassis it is merely as easy as drilling the holes to accomodate the different engines.

[maxmach]

You are still presupposing that there is some secret cabal of idiots out there keeping USAC grads out of Indy cars for purely stupid motives.

Hamilton and Fisher's track record indicates accuately what you ignore. They don't have the skill set from driving a midget or sprint car to adapt to a rear engined winged car. THAT is why all these posers from Europe and road racers race Indy cars. It is easy to demonize the team owners as idiots, but the fact is guys like Chip Ganassi and Roger Penske aren't looking in USAC to find Indycar drivers, and they want to just win. If the USAC guys had the skill set, you would see Penske and Ganassi looking for these guys.....

Roger did look in USAC for drivers....and he found one. His name was Ryan Newman and it was obvious that his skill set and instincts honed in dirt cars would work better in NASCAR.

You can rail against the evil owners all you like, the fact is driving a sprint car is better training to drive NASCAR and not a modern Indy car. Unless Indy went back to being a track where you raced a modern version of the roadster, this will not change.

Said very well, He, Bernard, should be looking at usac, but He should also be looking at scca and karting. I've always thought that.

[anthonyvop]

I'd be surprised if VW and Audi were in given they're the same parent company and Audi is very much the LMS brand for VAG, while SEAT is the touring car brand. "Big overseas" is more likely to be Toyota now it has an engine factory in Germany sitting pretty empty.

VW/Audi is very serious about an IRL program.

[anthonyvop]

Realizing that the oval track portion of AOW is a heck of a lot bigger then the road racing portion and understanding there is a loyal fanbase out there, would be nice.


I suppose you have stats to back that up?

Not that bigger numbers always means better. There is a reason why certain companies shy away from NASCAR with it's huge fan base and instead invest in series like the ALMS.

[elan 02]

A Ford/Lola or maybe Ford Cosworth/Lola sounds real good. Now if Chevy would come on board, lets say Chevy/ Dallara I think you would see the ICS come back quicker than any one has dreamed.

[Scotty G.]

1. You are still presupposing that there is some secret cabal of idiots out there keeping USAC grads out of Indy cars for purely stupid motives.

2. Hamilton and Fisher's track record indicates accuately what you ignore. They don't have the skill set from driving a midget or sprint car to adapt to a rear engined winged car. .



1. Yes, you nailed it. There are a whole lot of idiots in Indy Car now and a whole lot have been around in the past 20 years. Its why the sport is one life-support and nobody in America cares or watches.

If they were so damn smart, we wouldn't be in the sad shape we are in.


2. How did Bobby Doornbos, Taku Sato, Koskue Matsuura, EJ Viso, Tomas Scheckter, Mario Moraes, Ryan Briscoe, Mark Taylor, Mike Conway, Enrique Bernoldi, Jaime Camera, etc... do in their "transition" to Indy Cars?

Compare the carnage and million of dollars worth of equipment they destroyed (even though none of them ever set foot in a American oval track car before they got here) and get back to me on "who was prepared to tackle them formula road racing cars" and who wasn't.

The FACTS are that most of these formula car road racers are lost and aren't ready to drive an Indy Car either when they get to Indy Cars. But most are given a "pass" from owners, for 2 big reasons:

1. The driver's checkbook is more important to the owners then their performance on the track.

2. The owner's are almost all from road racing/sports car backgrounds. So they (like many of the fans who frequent message boards) have a preconceived air of superiority over American oval track grads/fans. So they are cut more slack and given more rope then a oval tracker would get in the same situation.

Davey Hamilton had a damn good Indy Car career. Was consistant and didn't crash. Never won a race, but was always in the top 5 in the late 90's. Was like Raul Boesel of this era. His crash at Indy this year was the first time in a race there he had ever touched the wall. Easy on equipment and safe to run wheel-to-wheel with.

Sarah Fisher is another one that has nothing to be ashamed of either. Has driven dog crap cars most of her career. Has hardly ever had a teammate. Won a pole at Kentucky. Finished 2nd to Hornish at Homestead. Another driver who is easy on equipment and safe to race with on the track.

And now both of these drivers are investing in the sport by owning teams in Indy Car and/or Indy Lights. So they will be involved going forward for years to come. Too bad some of the big stars of our sport will be gone the second they decide to get out of the seat and we won't see them again.

[Mark in Oshawa]

The really great drivers can peddle anything around pretty well - Andretti, Foyt, Gurney. The merely good have a much harder time making the transition. Than being said, there is also a bigger gap between the skills required for the different types of cars today than there was before. SCCA stopped being a training ground for OW drivers almost 20 years ago. The last one to make it from there was Vasser.

The last one was Vasser, but I don't think that is because the road to the IRL isn't valid, but just because no one has really stood out in Atlantics and the like and was so good people couldn't turn him down. Maybe I am wrong, for I know Hornish got to the IRL through Atlantics, but the reality is most aspiring American drivers get siphoned off into the NASCAR spin/money machine.....

[Scotty G.]

but the reality is most aspiring American drivers get siphoned off into the NASCAR spin/money machine.....


No, they go where they are wanted.

[nigelred5]

It was what we were told it was.....but I think the problem is too many people still think those people at the Sprint Car races can relate to Indy. The reality is a Sprint Car fan is more likely to watch NASCAR because rear engined cars with wings like an Indy car have little relevence to the guys sideways on dirt. The disconnect started in the 70's....

When the likes of Jan Opperman didn't go to Indy as the next step of the ladder, the thread was pulled tight, and when guys like Dave Blaney and Steve Kinser blazed a trail to NASCAR, the thread was snapped with Ryan Newman and Kasey Kahne and the like.

I don't know how Bernard can get these fans back easily. Tony George played lip service to it, but I don't really know what was done....




Maybe he could throw a few real bulls in the middle of those small bullrings like Iowa for a little extra Saturday night excitement. Seriously though, get a few current Indycar drivers in sprint cars again . I distinctly remember Damatta and Kanaan and a few other guys hitting the dirt a few years back in California. All the former dirt guys in NASCAR get back to the dirt tracks for a few all-star type events. I've got no problem with that being part of "the vision" if it's a true goal and not smoke and mirrors hiding TG's thinly veiled war for dominance of AOWR.

[nigelred5]

1. Yes, you nailed it. There are a whole lot of idiots in Indy Car now and a whole lot have been around in the past 20 years. Its why the sport is one life-support and nobody in America cares or watches.

If they were so damn smart, we wouldn't be in the sad shape we are in.


.......
2. The owner's are almost all from road racing/sports car backgrounds. So they (like many of the fans who frequent message boards) have a preconceived air of superiority over American oval track grads/fans. So they are cut more slack and given more rope then a oval tracker would get in the same situation.

Davey Hamilton had a damn good Indy Car career. Was consistant and didn't crash. Never won a race, but was always in the top 5 in the late 90's. Was like Raul Boesel of this era. His crash at Indy this year was the first time in a race there he had ever touched the wall. Easy on equipment and safe to run wheel-to-wheel with.

Sarah Fisher is another one that has nothing to be ashamed of either. Has driven dog crap cars most of her career. Has hardly ever had a teammate. Won a pole at Kentucky. Finished 2nd to Hornish at Homestead. Another driver who is easy on equipment and safe to race with on the track.

And now both of these drivers are investing in the sport by owning teams in Indy Car and/or Indy Lights. So they will be involved going forward for years to come. Too bad some of the big stars of our sport will be gone the second they decide to get out of the seat and we won't see them again.

I think this is a very important aspect that has been missing from indycars/ cart. etc. Owners like Ganassi and Penske esentially followed the oval track crowd to NASCAR and took the american oval track hopefuls with them where they are appreciated. They have both primarily hired off shore drivers for years in openwheel. Where are the links to the 70's and 80's Indycars and dirt tracks? Rahal has bascally been on the sidelines for a few years and really didn't even promote his son. Foyt has tried to carry on the tradition. The Unsers never got into ownership. Sadly guys like Rick Mears never went out on their own into ownership. Andretti, like him or loathe him (and his drivers) is generally keeping a whole $#!t load of cars on the track and has three Americans on track. Hopefully rumours are true and the new cars and engines will be dramatically cheaper than the Dallaras so a driver with a pocket full of cash from the mid west CAN actually get a legitimate shot in some decent hardware on the track and prove himself.

[Mark in Oshawa]

No, they go where they are wanted.

No Scotty, they go where they don't have to dig up a sponsor. Tony ran OW so far into obscurity, the owners cannot even afford to hire these guys. You keep on with your conspiracy....

[Chris R]

Scotty - I hear what you are saying - but I am not sure the oval guys have been passed by in any malicious sort of way... I live in the mid-Atlantic region of the east coast. I am about 3 hours from darn near half the American population. I am hard pressed to name a dirt oval of any significance in that same range - I could be wrong but I cannot think of any... I have Bridgeport and New Egypt in NJ, I think there is a track down in lower Delaware and I know there is pone or two toward central PA - but I do not think any host WoO or USAC.... As a result, I grew up with asphalt and road racing presented on TV and in print because that is what there was.. Since I am in such a population center, I am going to make the leap of faith that most fans in my region that are in my age group or younger came to be racing fans the same way..... Basically, we grew up outside the USAC mid-west crowd and have no real connection to that arm of AOWR.... I do not look down on it - it is just not in my "blood".

As AOWR (and all of racing) has become more about the corporate world, I think the fan base and the money base has shifted more to the coastal population/financial centers and further from the heartland. Even NASCAR has shifted dramatically from its more rural heritage.... The reason that the USAC guys are not getting a shot has as much to do with people like me having no more clue (often less of a clue) who the next dirt guy is as opposed to who the next road racer is.... It has nothing to do with personality, skill, nationality or anything other than exposure.... Because of the media and social outlet that are readily available to me, I have a much better idea of who Adam Carroll is than of who the newest sensation in USAC is....

Basically, I do not think the USAC drivers will help all of the IRL all that much - it will help the strong mid-west fan base and those who have good knowledge of USAC - but the vast majority of the population have no more clue about USAC than European Formula 3.....

I think you are right that these guys should be given a shot and should be respected by the racing community. I am equally sure that the best would be great Indy car driver (or drivers or anything else) but I am not sure it will make a ton of difference to the popularity of the sport....

That being said, I think it is a great idea to work with these guys and anything to help the sport even marginally is awesome - just don't expect miracles....

[Chris R]

you know, I think my previous post was supposed to go to the "big announcement" thread - I am getting too confused as they are all about the same stuff more or less!! My apologies and if a moderator would like to move it, please feel free....

[bblocker68]

Why do I feel like I'm at TF? lol.

I sometimes wonder if the entire Mid-West lives under a plastic bubble. The entire line of thinking is so much different than the rest of the populace.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Why do I feel like I'm at TF? lol.

I sometimes wonder if the entire Mid-West lives under a plastic bubble. The entire line of thinking is so much different than the rest of the populace.

I wonder about that too. You hear the USAC mid west guys talk, they invented racing. Well, in a sense they did, but they ceased to own it a long time ago.....

[nigelred5]

Zz
Scotty - I hear what you are saying - but I am not sure the oval guys have been passed by in any malicious sort of way... I live in the mid-Atlantic region of the east coast. I am about 3 hours from darn near half the American population. I am hard pressed to name a dirt oval of any significance in that same range - I could be wrong but I cannot think of any... I have Bridgeport and New Egypt in NJ, I think there is a track down in lower Delaware and I know there is pone or two toward central PA - but I do not think any host WoO or USAC.... As a result, I grew up with asphalt and road racing presented on TV and in print because that is what there was.. Since I am in such a population center, I am going to make the leap of faith that most fans in my region that are in my age group or younger came to be racing fans the same way..... Basically, we grew up outside the USAC mid-west crowd and have no real connection to that arm of AOWR.... I do not look down on it - it is just not in my "blood".

As AOWR (and all of racing) has become more about the corporate world, I think the fan base and the money base has shifted more to the coastal population/financial centers and further from the heartland. Even NASCAR has shifted dramatically from its more rural heritage.... The reason that the USAC guys are not getting a shot has as much to do with people like me having no more clue (often less of a clue) who the next dirt guy is as opposed to who the next road racer is.... It has nothing to do with personality, skill, nationality or anything other than exposure.... Because of the media and social outlet that are readily available to me, I have a much better idea of who Adam Carroll is than of who the newest sensation in USAC is....

Basically, I do not think the USAC drivers will help all of the IRL all that much - it will help the strong mid-west fan base and those who have good knowledge of USAC - but the vast majority of the population have no more clue about USAC than European Formula 3.....

I think you are right that these guys should be given a shot and should be respected by the racing community. I am equally sure that the best would be great Indy car driver (or drivers or anything else) but I am not sure it will make a ton of difference to the popularity of the sport....

That being said, I think it is a great idea to work with these guys and anything to help the sport even marginally is awesome - just don't expect miracles....

Williams grove speedway has WOO. THere are quite a few dirttracks in PA actually. IIRC hagerstown md also hosts WOO. We take the kids to airport speedway in New Castle DE several times a season and occasionally follow a buddy up to LANCO speedway to watch microsprints. The 600's are a blast. 1/8 mile dirt oval microsprints are about as grass-roots as you get.

[Scotty G.]

I wonder about that too. You hear the USAC mid west guys talk, they invented racing. Well, in a sense they did, but they ceased to own it a long time ago.....


Indy Car racing was born and bred in the American midwest.

Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Springfield, DuQuoin, Langhorne, Michigan.

The best ratings for Indy Car racing? Indianapolis, Columbus Ohio, Dayton Ohio.

The majority of Indy Car and Open Wheel racing fans are from the midwest. They were either born there or live there.


Where are the majority of American stock car fans from? The southeast. North Carolina, South Carolina, Alabama, Tennessee, Georgia. That is their home.

Where are the majority of American open wheel fans from? Indiana, Ohio, Illinois, Iowa, Michigan.


That's just the way it is. Doesn't mean that NASCAR can't branch out and have races in the midwest or the southwest or the northeast. Doesn't mean that Indy Car shouldn't branch out and have races in the southwest, northeast or northwest either.

But these genre's homes, are where they are for a reason. Its called history and heritage.

[anthonyvop]

Indy Car racing was born and bred in the American midwest.

Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Springfield, DuQuoin, Langhorne, Michigan.

The best ratings for Indy Car racing? Indianapolis, Columbus Ohio, Dayton Ohio.

The majority of Indy Car and Open Wheel racing fans are from the midwest. They were either born there or live there.


Where are the majority of American stock car fans from? The southeast. North Carolina, South Carolina, Alabama, Tennessee, Georgia. That is their home.

Where are the majority of American open wheel fans from? Indiana, Ohio, Illinois, Iowa, Michigan.


That's just the way it is. Doesn't mean that NASCAR can't branch out and have races in the midwest or the southwest or the northeast. Doesn't mean that Indy Car shouldn't branch out and have races in the southwest, northeast or northwest either.

But these genre's homes, are where they are for a reason. Its called history and heritage.

Then if what you say is true then LOGIC dictates that the IRL needs to change in order to expand it's fan base outside of the Midwest in order to grow.

[Bob Riebe]

You are still presupposing that there is some secret cabal of idiots out there keeping USAC grads out of Indy cars for purely stupid motives.

Hamilton and Fisher's track record indicates accuately what you ignore. They don't have the skill set from driving a midget or sprint car to adapt to a rear engined winged car. THAT is why all these posers from Europe and road racers race Indy cars. It is easy to demonize the team owners as idiots, but the fact is guys like Chip Ganassi and Roger Penske aren't looking in USAC to find Indycar drivers, and they want to just win. If the USAC guys had the skill set, you would see Penske and Ganassi looking for these guys.....

Roger did look in USAC for drivers....and he found one. His name was Ryan Newman and it was obvious that his skill set and instincts honed in dirt cars would work better in NASCAR.

You can rail against the evil owners all you like, the fact is driving a sprint car is better training to drive NASCAR and not a modern Indy car. Unless Indy went back to being a track where you raced a modern version of the roadster, this will not change.
Going to NASCAR has little to nothing to do with past experience of talent, it is simply about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ without exception.

Indy cars, you bring money, stock-cars you get paid money.

[Bob Riebe]

Said very well, He, Bernard, should be looking at usac, but He should also be looking at scca and karting. I've always thought that.
Sadly the SCCA, due to its incompetence, stopped being a source for proffessional drivers over twenty years ago.

[Bob Riebe]

Why do I feel like I'm at TF? lol.

I sometimes wonder if the entire Mid-West lives under a plastic bubble. The entire line of thinking is so much different than the rest of the populace.
The REST of the populace being whom and where.

Oswego is not in the mid-west but is known by many fans here.

Sprint cars are not hurting but neither are they the national news they were even ten years ago.
Open Wheel magazine is gone; WoO is not nearly as big as it once was.
Besides Kinser, how many well known WoO drivers are still driving?

The sprint/modified fan loss to Indy Car racing is a HUGE loss, but at the same time, while sprint/modifieds are doing well, they no longer have the national press they did a decade ago.
Short track racing has problems with govt. asses sticking their noses where they do not belong, but not near the money the millionaire crowd has.

Here a new dirt track opened thirty miless away, but two others closed, this year, one closer and one only thirty miles farther.
The govt. cluster-f--- causing the economy to fizzle is part of the reason, but pathetic little things like not getting a proper permit for a type of building, bathrooms not built properly, lunch counter in wrong place, etc. are the only things that shut one down, although the local govt. closing the track for said infractions caused the track to miss loan payments, so it is closed and for sale.

[Bob Riebe]

I wonder about that too. You hear the USAC mid west guys talk, they invented racing. Well, in a sense they did, but they ceased to own it a long time ago.....
Read Outlaw Sprint Car Driver and you will know or have a very good idea where it originated in the U.S.A., and probably part of Canada. (People also forget Mexico had dirt tracks pre-WWII also.)

[anthonyvop]

One problem we have is the insitance people have in calling the IRL "Open Wheel Racing" like it still has anything to do with USAC/Sprint/WoO type racing.

The IRL is Formula Car racing.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Read Outlaw Sprint Car Driver and you will know or have a very good idea where it originated in the U.S.A., and probably part of Canada. (People also forget Mexico had dirt tracks pre-WWII also.)

I know that Sprint's and Midgets are mainly a midwest idea, but the midgets go back to the 20's and racing on the board tracks, and they were on the coasts as well.

Oval racing is a uniquely American form of racing. Sprints and Midgets are throwback "retro" style race cars that have evolved not much from those days. Front engine, upright, drive shaft under the driver, big wheel, similar body work, just the addition of safety gear like the cage and scattershields, plus the big tires.

IT has about as much in common with the modern IRL car as a street car does. Aero really isn't used the same way (WoO cars have the huge wings, but that is about the only aero you see in this form of racing) while IRL cars are massaged in the wind tunnel. The ride height, driver's experience and the symetrical as opposed to asymetrical layout in the USAC cars dictate a totally different mindset for driving.

Bob you know this, I know this, but for some, they keep thinking people from the USAC world can just jump and run quick at Indy right away without ever understanding the change in attitude and style of driving.