Stuck-up attitude of the Americans

[Eki]

Recently, there were news about some Americans been upset because Barak Obama bowed to the Emperor of Japan. I just watched news from Halifax, Canada, where there were celebrations of the Canadian Navy. Queen Elisabeth II was a guest there, and she's nominally also the Queen of Canada. There were also ships from the UK, France and the US. Sailors on the British and the French ships cheered for the Queen, but the sailors on the American ship remain silent. I think that's just rude.

[Tazio]

Eki... I'm no authority. I never had the "opportunity to serve my country" Actually I did, but I was simultaneously invited to get a college education at a reduced cost if I played for the schools Baseball Team. On one hand I had an invitation to go fight and kill or be killed by some people I knew very little about or get an education and play a Childs game. A pretty easy choice eh!
The Men and Women that are in the US Military are there to follow orders.
I don't have a problem with the president of the U.S. following a tradition in another country. I also don't care if our fighting forces are considered to be rude. I think the ruder the better. We don't expect any foreigners to salute our president or even our flag. We do expect them to have the respect to stay silent when we do, on our land!

[anthonyvop]

Recently, there were news about some Americans been upset because Barak Obama bowed to the Emperor of Japan. I just watched news from Halifax, Canada, where there were celebrations of the Canadian Navy. Queen Elisabeth II was a guest there, and she's nominally also the Queen of Canada. There were also ships from the UK, France and the US. Sailors on the British and the French ships cheered for the Queen, but the sailors on the American ship remain silent. I think that's just rude.


Rude is not knowing the customs and rules of other countries. The US sailors were at probably at "attention" and so prohibited from uttering a sound.

If you ask me the Brits and the French were rude. Cheering a symbolic head of state?

BTW Under no circumstances should any American bow before anyone. Especially somebody who claims royal blood.

[Saint Devote]

America is a very young country - a very young nation compared to all the others you mention.

But there is an entity that it bows before without complaint or objection - its called money.

Americans talk about money CONSTANTLY. Thats just the way it is. They cannot fathom difference based on class structure or whatever other nations do.

Just remember one thing - there is the picture of America that they like to portray to the world, and then there is the reality.

Again - its just the way it is.

Much of the world do not understand the US and it is not easy. But on balance the US is a generous and friendly people - love them and they will love you back.

But it is also a most difficult nation to understand. But try anyway, it is very rewarding.

[Easy Drifter]

For the Royal Navy it is tradition.
The actual event the the commemeration of the 100th Anniversary of the Royal Canadian Navy.
At least the US Navy was present which is more than I can say for the Navy of a certain other country.

[Tazio]

America is a very young country - a very young nation compared to all the others you mention.

But there is an entity that it bows before without complaint or objection - its called money.

Americans talk about money CONSTANTLY. Thats just the way it is. They cannot fathom difference based on class structure or whatever other nations do.

Just remember one thing - there is the picture of America that they like to portray to the world, and then there is the reality.

Again - its just the way it is.

Much of the world do not understand the US and it is not easy. But on balance the US is a generous and friendly people - love them and they will love you back.

But it is also a most difficult nation to understand. But try anyway, it is very rewarding. You have some freakin' balls dude :p imp: :monkeedan :bones:


Shylock:
Go to then, you come to me, and you say,
"Shylock, we would have moneys," you say so. . . .
Shall I bend low and in a bondman's key,
With bated breath and whisp'ring humbleness,
Say this:
"Fair sir, you spet on me Wednesday last,
You spurn'd me such a day, another time
You call'd me dog; and for these courtesies
I'll lend you thus much moneys"?


The Merchant Of Venice Act 1, scene 3, 115–116, 123–129

[Jag_Warrior]

Just remember one thing - there is the picture of America that they like to portray to the world, and then there is the reality.

Considering the flag you're flying up there, are you really sure you want to travel down that road?

[Mark in Oshawa]

I wasn't there, and neither was Eki or Saint Devote. Also Eki, the Queen isn't nominally our Queen, she IS our Queen. One of the great quirks of history and nationhood is that the main ex colonies of the UK still with the exception of India are bound with the link to the Sovereign. It is ceremonial, but it depoliticizes the head of state.

The US Navy I am sure would not tell their sailors to just be silent and I am sure they were standing at attention. All military men know better than most the idea of protocol and ceremony. The French and sailors from the UK were obviously given no orders of standing at attention. I suspect either reaction was fine, and I haven't read of any great kerfuffle. Just another case of you EKI trying to be bash Americans...

As for you Saint Devote, You just might want to put the shovel down....the hole you can dig yourself will not be fun

[Hondo]

I would guess the American sailors were at Parade Rest and went to Attention when and if the Queen passed in review and then returned to Parade Rest. Going to Attention would be the maximun display of respect. At neither position are US servicemen allowed to whoop, holler, huuzah, whistle, or engage in any other verbal or visual display. At a command of Rest, as long as they stayed in place, they could have whistled, hollered, sat down, and invited the Queen out for a few beers.

[DexDexter]

Rude is not knowing the customs and rules of other countries. The US sailors were at probably at "attention" and so prohibited from uttering a sound.

If you ask me the Brits and the French were rude. Cheering a symbolic head of state?

BTW Under no circumstances should any American bow before anyone. Especially somebody who claims royal blood.

Yep, look stupid instead. :rolleyes:

[ShiftingGears]

Non-Story!

[Eki]

BTW Under no circumstances should any American bow before anyone. Especially somebody who claims royal blood.
Why? When the Queen visited the Wimbledon tennis tournament during the match between Murray and Nieminen. Nieminen bowed at the Queen and was OK with it. After the match Nieminen told it was great to meet the Queen.

If I visited the US and everybody stood up for to hear the US National Anthem, I would stand up too. If I visited a Synagogue and were offered a Kippah, I'd wear it. If I visited a Mosque where everybody takes their shoes off, I'd take my shoes off too. Why? If for nothing else, then just that I don't seem like a childish jerk.

http://blog.taragana.com/sports/2010/06/24/queen-elizabeth-visits-wimbledon-for-1st-time-since-1977-and-watches-murray-nieminen-match-114921/


The queen took her seat in the front row of the Royal Box shortly before Murray and Nieminen walked onto the court. They turned toward her and simultaneously bowed as the crowd roared.

Murray, the only British player left in singles, might have been a bit nervous at the start. He faced four break points in the opening game but erased them all, then pulled away from there.

The queen joined the applause when Murray closed out the win. Both players again bowed as they left the court, and they then met with the queen on a balcony overlooking the club’s outer courts before she departed.

[anthonyvop]

If I visited the US and everybody stood up for to hear the US National Anthem, I would stand up too. If I visited a Synagogue and were offered a Kippah, I'd wear it. If I visited a Mosque where everybody takes their shoes off, I'd take my shoes off too. Why? If for nothing else, then just that I don't seem like a childish jerk.



Standing during a nations National Anthem is a sign or Respect of that nation. So is the Kippah.

Bowing before and individual is an acknowledgment of inferiority.

Back in the 80's I stood in a long reviewing line to meet Pope JP2. Person after person bowed and kissed his ring. I extended my hand and offered a warm greeting.
Afterwords some people came up and offered their criticism of my actions. I explained that I am in no way inferior to the Pope so any thought of bowing or kissing his ring never entered my mind.

[Tazio]

Standing during a nations National Anthem is a sign or Respect of that nation. So is the Kippah.

Bowing before and individual is an acknowledgment of inferiority.

Back in the 80's I stood in a long reviewing line to meet Pope JP2. Person after person bowed and kissed his ring. I extended my hand and offered a warm greeting.
Afterwords some people came up and offered their criticism of my actions. I explained that I am in no way inferior to the Pope so any thought of bowing or kissing his ring never entered my mind.
Cool...... Let's hookup in Hell bro!.. :up: ..... :angryfire
:rotflmao:

[anthonyvop]

Cool...... Let's hookup in Hell bro!.. :up: ..... :angryfire
:rotflmao:

See ya there.

[Eki]

Standing during a nations National Anthem is a sign or Respect of that nation. So is the Kippah.

Bowing before and individual is an acknowledgment of inferiority.

No it's not, it's just part of a protocol code or a sign of respect.

[Tazio]

See ya there.
Yes I believe you will!
Along with the rest of my friends :laugh:

[race aficionado]

Standing during a nations National Anthem is a sign or Respect of that nation. So is the Kippah.

Bowing before and individual is an acknowledgment of inferiority.

Back in the 80's I stood in a long reviewing line to meet Pope JP2. Person after person bowed and kissed his ring. I extended my hand and offered a warm greeting.
Afterwords some people came up and offered their criticism of my actions. I explained that I am in no way inferior to the Pope so any thought of bowing or kissing his ring never entered my mind.

anthony.
"acknowledgment of inferiority" as you put it, is *in my opinion* - a sense of insecurity from your part. When you bow in certain situations where culturally it is a sign of respect, you are doing just that, being respectful, not acknowledging your "inferiority" - whatever that means.

But again, you have the right to do as you wish, it looks like you really believe in your actions and who am I to call you insecure -
so let's move on . . . .

:s mokin:

[Tazio]

anthony.
"acknowledgment of inferiority" as you put it, is *in my opinion* - a sense of insecurity from your part. When you bow in certain situations where culturally it is a sign of respect, you are doing just that, being respectful, not acknowledging your "inferiority" - whatever that means.

But again, you have the right to do as you wish, it looks like you really believe in your actions and who am I to call you insecure -
so let's move on . . . .

:s mokin:RA help me out here, you’re in the movie biz!
There is a scene in La Vida es Bella. Where the character of Roberto Benigni's
Uncle tries to teach Roberto's character how to bow properly to the customer he is waiting on. He makes a reference to just what you explained;
the difference between serving a man and serving God.

I know this is not historically accurate, and in fact there was controversy the way Benigni found comedy within the experience of the holocaust.
Having said that I find the final scene rather appropriate this day:

WKh0-Xg8i5A&feature=related

[Rollo]

Bowing before and individual is an acknowledgment of inferiority.

Good.

Society as whole would be better off if we considered everyone else as better than us. It would lead to things like manners, chivalry and courtesy.

[Bob Riebe]

Good.

Society as whole would be better off if we considered everyone else as better than us. It would lead to things like manners, chivalry and courtesy.

HA--ROFLMAO- somebody has been sniffing the pixie dust.

[Bob Riebe]

No it's not, it's just part of a protocol code or a sign of respect.
True respect is earned - not given; if it has not been earned then it is an act of subservience, or brain-washed ritual, more often than not.

For what it is worth, I would bow to the Queen, but not for the Pope.

[Tazio]

Good.

Society as whole would be better off if we considered everyone else as better than us. It would lead to things like manners, chivalry and courtesy.The actual meaning of chivalry and courtesy go way over the heads of your average American. I do not only respect your comment I endorse it.
BTW we have not cornered the market on unscrupulous, arrogant, and ignorant bliss! My hat is off to you sir :up:
Take your pick Rollo. I suspect you understand the imagery. I find the last of the group most appropriate!


Lear:
I am even
The natural fool of fortune.


King Lear Act 4, scene 6, 190–191

Timon:
You fools of fortune. . . .


Timon Of Athens Act 3, scene 6, 96

Edgar:
The gods are just, and of our pleasant vices
Make instruments to plague us:
The dark and vicious place where thee he got
Cost him his eyes.


Edmund:
Th' hast spoken right, 'tis true.
The wheel is come full circle, I am here.


King Lear Act 5, scene 3, 171–175

[Jag_Warrior]

For what it is worth, I would bow to the Queen, but not for the Pope.

And out of curiosity, why is that?

[Bob Riebe]

And out of curiosity, why is that?
The Pope is in reality just another preacher, a servant of God, not a ruler of men.

[Jag_Warrior]

The Pope is in reality just another preacher, a servant of God, not a ruler of men.

Well, in reality, the queen (and all other monarchs) is just the winner of the Lucky Sperm Lottery. Only those who buy into the notion of divine selection, or have a taste for nostalgia, recognize her as anything more.

[race aficionado]

I have a friend in NYC- she is from Japan and is a great jazz composer, piano player and performer.
Her trio got an invitation to play at The Blue Note in NYC - one of the most renowned Jazz establishments in the world and I offered to video tape and edit her trio's performance as a gift to her.
Many friends and family came from Japan to be at this special event.
When I was introduced to her mom, this woman was so thankful and happy to meet me that she would not stop bowing - up and down and with this big and generous smile.
I could not stop bowing back to her and this ritual was one of warmth, of thanks and celebration. I was not doing this as an acceptance of my inferiority nor a gesture to a preacher, a servant of God or a ruler of men.
It was just a sign of respect and appreciation.

It is a ritual common in Japan and not only done in front of the Japanese rulers and its royalty. I got bowed to also and I had a chance to do it too.

For me, It was a very nice experience.
:)

[markabilly]

Standing during a nations National Anthem is a sign or Respect of that nation. So is the Kippah.

Bowing before and individual is an acknowledgment of inferiority.

Back in the 80's I stood in a long reviewing line to meet Pope JP2. Person after person bowed and kissed his ring. I extended my hand and offered a warm greeting.
Afterwords some people came up and offered their criticism of my actions. I explained that I am in no way inferior to the Pope so any thought of bowing or kissing his ring never entered my mind.

amen

Not our fault we that we are all equal

when two bow to show mutual respect that is one thing, but I bow to no one, and that includes ancestors of lucky sperm, most of whom would be lucky to have a job working at a convience store or cutting grass if it were not for all that royal blood inbreeding, given all their inbreeding background and stupidity

[anthonyvop]

Well, in reality, the queen (and all other monarchs) is just the winner of the Lucky Sperm Lottery. Only those who buy into the notion of divine selection, or have a taste for nostalgia, recognize her as anything more.

At least the Pope earned his position.

[Jag_Warrior]

At least the Pope earned his position.

I agree with you there. At least he was voted in.

[Mark in Oshawa]

The whole thing with the Royal family of the UK (and by extention, The Commonwealth nations of Australia, New Zealand and Canada) is that they represent a link to our cultural past as former colonies to the mother country (no revolution, just an evolution of nation states sharing the same values). The Queen is in Canada for one of her periodic visits, and I saw her today. Some bowed in the Royal enclosure I am sure. I am also aware of the official US protocol that no American dips his flag or bows to any monarch. (at least in Theory, Obama looked like he was grovelling to the Emperor of Japan last year). That said, the Monarchy to me is part of a shared bond and history, and I have no issue with it. We had a massive grandstand full of people today at the Queen's Plate Horse race in Toronto cheering and waving this 81 year old grandmother and it was out of affection for the fact that she is a connection to our past. Her reign isn't one of anything active, on the contrary, I suspect the last time any British monarch actually had to "rule" was a long time ago, and her representives in Canada have only 2 times in the last 100 years made any decisions that even came close to pulling the rank of office.

IT is a ceremonial thing, but it is a leader who is above the fray, and is above politics. Lucky Sperm club? Ya...heck, most of in modern western nations are members of that. Be thankful you are not born in a mud hut in the Sudan with the wrong religion. So to knock the Royal Family based on hereditary reign is valid, but where do you stop? Is my life better if my country dumped the constitutional monarchy and adopted a President? My god, we argue over the dopiest things in this country, I would shudder to think of the fur fight dumping the Queen or her successors to the garbage bin of history would open up.

The fact is every nation has its own roots, reasons for doing things, and evolution as a nation. You Americans are showing your historical disdain for royalty, and that was due to KG the third being such a jerk in the 1770's. I get that....but hey, put the chip off your shoulder. It is alright to maybe admit you miss something of that role. Lets face it, your head of state is open for wide open criticism and disdain, while my head of state is above the fray. Yes, we share her with 5 or 6 other nations and, yes she really doesn't do ANYTHING in theory, but that's ok. In a world full of change, having the Queen around for all of my 45 years of life hasn't bothered me one iota. I am in principle not for hereditary nepotism in almost anything, but call me silly, but I like the old girl. I can even tolerate Charles in small doses. His boys are pretty decent guys too.

To you Americans, I hold no grudge against the US Navy not cheering and carrying on in Halifax, because I know their respect for protocol and ceremony wouldn't allow them to do anything to disrespect the monarch.

For you Americans who wouldn't bow to her, hey, that is your business, but at least give some grudging respect for the 1000 years of traditions that comes with the Queen. The same system gave the world the foundations of democracy in the Magna Carta and it is British jurisprudence, parliamentry procedure and respect for a higher authority that is often found in many nations, including the US. To say the Queen and the whole idea of a constitutional monarchy is outdated is to also dump on much of what is in the DNA of most of the English speaking democracies of the world...

[Eki]

Yes, we share her with 5 or 6 other nations and, yes she really doesn't do ANYTHING in theory, but that's ok.
Exactly, and therefore there isn't any reason to behave badly in front of her, not even as a protest or a gesture of rebellion. There is no reason to not follow the protocol, it's just like shaking hands, not an act of submission.

[Bob Riebe]

Well, in reality, the queen (and all other monarchs) is just the winner of the Lucky Sperm Lottery. Only those who buy into the notion of divine selection, or have a taste for nostalgia, recognize her as anything more.
If you hold the Pope highly and have some problem with the Queen of England, so be it, what ever floats your boat.

At the same time only those who hold to Divine selection, hold the Pope to be anything but another preacher, if you want to include church hierarchy, then he is also simply also a politician and I will not bow to any preacher, whilst also having zero respect for politicians.

I respect the Queen, not her title.

[Jag_Warrior]

If you hold the Pope highly and have some problem with the Queen of England, so be it, what ever floats your boat.

At the same time only those who hold to Divine selection, hold the Pope to be anything but another preacher, if you want to include church hierarchy, then he is also simply also a politician and I will not bow to any preacher, whilst also having zero respect for politicians.

I respect the Queen, not her title.

I don't have anything against her. But I don't respect her any more (or any less) than I do anyone else. I also didn't say anything about "holding the Pope highly". I'm not Catholic and he's no one special to me either. I just said that at least he was voted into his position... not simply a winner of the Lucky Sperm Lotto.



For you Americans who wouldn't bow to her, hey, that is your business, but at least give some grudging respect for the 1000 years of traditions that comes with the Queen. The same system gave the world the foundations of democracy in the Magna Carta and it is British jurisprudence, parliamentry procedure and respect for a higher authority that is often found in many nations, including the US. To say the Queen and the whole idea of a constitutional monarchy is outdated is to also dump on much of what is in the DNA of most of the English speaking democracies of the world...

As far as our form of government, we've pulled at least as much (likely quite a bit more) from ancient Rome and Greece than we have England. But like I said, if someone is into nostalgia, history or culture, I have no issue with them getting into the pomp and circumstance of the royal families of Europe. It's not for me, but I'm cool with that. Better that than watching the goings on of complete retards like Britney Spears, Paris Hilton and "Brangelina", et al. But just a cursory read of the Latin classics will at least partially tell you how and why we feel the way we do about kings and queens. It is not by coincidence that you'll see sprinklings of Latin text and Roman references throughout our culture and our political bodies. The Senate? Hello! Adams, Madison, Jefferson and most of the framers looked to ancient Rome for what to do, and what not to do, as our governmental system was formed. Just like the Roman Senate, if a proposed law cannot pass through the U.S. Senate, it cannot become law. The Roman Senate initially consisted of 100 elders. Guess how many Senators we have? That's also why we have three distinct branches of government, whereas the Romans only had two... which Adams saw as one of their failings - so he sought to correct what he perceived as a flaw in Rome's structure. I'm not dismissing what we took from English culture. But let's be clear on the actual lessons that the Founding Fathers looked to as the United States was formed as a republic: those of Rome (and Greece). And our disdain for monarchs (in general) exactly matches that of the ancient Romans as the Roman Republic was formed out of the defeat of the Etruscan monarchs... in very similar fashion to our own experience. The historical parallels are quite amazing.

But as for what other countries do, and what forms of government that they feel work best for them, I'm basically a live & let die, SPQA (Senatus Populusque Americanus) kinda guy on that matter. Just because I don't care anything about her doesn't mean that I want to stop anybody else from being a fan of the queen or any of the rest of them. Tell ya what, stick Charlotte Casiraghi of Monaco in front of me. I'll bow to her. Oh my, I certainly will! I don't even think she technically qualifies as a "royal"... but I'll still bow to her (looking right down her blouse, I will, I will!!! :p imp :)

[Mark in Oshawa]

I don't have anything against her. But I don't respect her any more (or any less) than I do anyone else. I also didn't say anything about "holding the Pope highly". I'm not Catholic and he's no one special to me either. I just said that at least he was voted into his position... not simply a winner of the Lucky Sperm Lotto.

As far as our form of government, we've pulled at least as much (likely quite a bit more) from ancient Rome and Greece than we have England. But like I said, if someone is into nostalgia, history or culture, I have no issue with them getting into the pomp and circumstance of the royal families of Europe. It's not for me, but I'm cool with that. Better that than watching the goings on of complete retards like Britney Spears, Paris Hilton and "Brangelina", et al. But just a cursory read of the Latin classics will at least partially tell you how and why we feel the way we do about kings and queens. It is not by coincidence that you'll see sprinklings of Latin text and Roman references throughout our culture and our political bodies. The Senate? Hello! Adams, Madison, Jefferson and most of the framers looked to ancient Rome for what to do, and what not to do, as our governmental system was formed. Just like the Roman Senate, if a proposed law cannot pass through the U.S. Senate, it cannot become law. The Roman Senate initially consisted of 100 elders. Guess how many Senators we have? That's also why we have three distinct branches of government, whereas the Romans only had two... which Adams saw as one of their failings - so he sought to correct what he perceived as a flaw in Rome's structure. I'm not dismissing what we took from English culture. But let's be clear on the actual lessons that the Founding Fathers looked to as the United States was formed as a republic: those of Rome (and Greece). And our disdain for monarchs (in general) exactly matches that of the ancient Romans as the Roman Republic was formed out of the defeat of the Etruscan monarchs... in very similar fashion to our own experience. The historical parallels are quite amazing.

But as for what other countries do, and what forms of government that they feel work best for them, I'm basically a live & let die, SPQA (Senatus Populusque Americanus) kinda guy on that matter. Just because I don't care anything about her doesn't mean that I want to stop anybody else from being a fan of the queen or any of the rest of them. Tell ya what, stick Charlotte Casiraghi of Monaco in front of me. I'll bow to her. Oh my, I certainly will! I don't even think she technically qualifies as a "royal"... but I'll still bow to her (looking right down her blouse, I will, I will!!! :p imp :)

You have 100 Senators only because by chance you have 50 states. A happy coincedance.

Jefferson and the framers did look to Greece and Rome, but they were at one point British subjects, and lawyers. You would have to be a spin doctor to not believe that this belief in rule of law, the British civil law and tort system wasn't part of the influence on shaping the US system.

Americans have a funny way of looking at the Commonwealth. Many like you claim to hold no grudge but are ok with other nations having the monarchy, but whenever the Queen or in the past, Princess Diana showed up, there was almost a feeding frenzy of media attention. It is almost on a subconscious level as if some people in America actually miss the idea of being led by a head of state who isn't a political football.

I am not suggesting for a second that there is anything wrong with America's system, but I do think the cultural connections and the common language between the UK and America do make the schism that was created in 1776 an unnatural one in a sense. I do think America is the most successful and largest of the English speaking offspring of the mother country, and is the rebel in the bunch, but still connected on a subconscious level, and you see that when the Royals show up. I remember the fuss made in Louisville when the Queen showed up for the Kentucky Derby. It wasn't as impressive as what I saw yesterday at the Queen's Plate in Toronto, but hey, that's her race!

[Tazio]

You have 100 Senators only because by chance you have 50 states. A happy coincedance.

Jefferson and the framers did look to Greece and Rome, but they were at one point British subjects, and lawyers. You would have to be a spin doctor to not believe that this belief in rule of law, the British civil law and tort system wasn't part of the influence on shaping the US system.

Americans have a funny way of looking at the Commonwealth. Many like you claim to hold no grudge but are ok with other nations having the monarchy, but whenever the Queen or in the past, Princess Diana showed up, there was almost a feeding frenzy of media attention. It is almost on a subconscious level as if some people in America actually miss the idea of being led by a head of state who isn't a political football.

I am not suggesting for a second that there is anything wrong with America's system, but I do think the cultural connections and the common language between the UK and America do make the schism that was created in 1776 an unnatural one in a sense. I do think America is the most successful and largest of the English speaking offspring of the mother country, and is the rebel in the bunch, but still connected on a subconscious level, and you see that when the Royals show up. I remember the fuss made in Louisville when the Queen showed up for the Kentucky Derby. It wasn't as impressive as what I saw yesterday at the Queen's Plate in Toronto, but hey, that's her race!Mark your point is rather trivial. Some Americans really think quite highly of the Queen of England, and demonstrate it at appropriate events or whenever they please. Others simply don't care one way or another. We are, and have always been a very diverse people.
I’ve heard very little serious criticism of her and I've lived on this rock for 56 years. 1776, 1815 was a long time ago. In the real world I don't think I’ve heard much negative comments about her here in the good old US of A. But I have heard some very nice things said about her. In a society that worships celebrity she's is just another player to me. But unlike most others she is famous, not infamous. That's all. MO :cool:

[anthonyvop]

Americans have a funny way of looking at the Commonwealth. Many like you claim to hold no grudge but are ok with other nations having the monarchy, but whenever the Queen or in the past, Princess Diana showed up, there was almost a feeding frenzy of media attention. It is almost on a subconscious level as if some people in America actually miss the idea of being led by a head of state who isn't a political football.



The media frenzy is directed to those who read People Magazine. In other words mostly middle class females. Just look at any crowd around a royal. They typically have a severe shortage of testosterone.
Sociologist can debate it but there is no denying the whole Princess/Prince fantasy of women as they grow up.

[Jag_Warrior]

In a society that worships celebrity she's is just another player to me. But unlike most others she is famous, not infamous. That's all. MO :cool:

This ^^^


The media frenzy is directed to those who read People Magazine. In other words mostly middle class females. Just look at any crowd around a royal. They typically have a severe shortage of testosterone.
Sociologist can debate it but there is no denying the whole Princess/Prince fantasy of women as they grow up.

And this^^^ Call it the "Grace Kelly Syndrome".


Outside of the celebrity factor, few Americans know or care much about the royals. Simple as that.

[chuck34]

Exactly, and therefore there isn't any reason to behave badly in front of her, not even as a protest or a gesture of rebellion. There is no reason to not follow the protocol, it's just like shaking hands, not an act of submission.

So now standing at attention is "behaving badly"?! My God Eki, you really do hate the US don't you. You could find any excuse to bash us. I bet that had our sailors cheered and carried on like the others, you would have been goin on about how poor our discipline is, and how much dis-respect we showed for the soverign of another nation, etc. You really are a troll.

[Jag_Warrior]

I don't want people to think that I'm insulting their culture or beliefs to get my jollies. I'm just being honest about how I feel about monarchs in general. I'd tell a Hindu guy that I eat beef and I'd tell a Jew that I eat pork... because that's the truth. I'm not suggesting that they do as I do. I don't really care what they do... as long as they don't bother me while I'm eating my steak or sausage. If some people still believe in divine selection, and that the royals are special people, that's fine with me. I don't believe it. I never have and I never will. I just don't recognize people as "special" simply based on their parentage.

I don't believe the queen (or any other quasi-head of state) should be shown blatant disrespect. But I also don't believe that our established military protocols should be broken for anyone either.

Senatus Populusque Americanus ;)

[markabilly]

Exactly, and therefore there isn't any reason to behave badly in front of her, not even as a protest or a gesture of rebellion. There is no reason to not follow the protocol, it's just like shaking hands, not an act of submission.


Recently, there were news about some Americans been upset because Barak Obama bowed to the Emperor of Japan. I just watched news from Halifax, Canada, where there were celebrations of the Canadian Navy. Queen Elisabeth II was a guest there, and she's nominally also the Queen of Canada. There were also ships from the UK, France and the US. Sailors on the British and the French ships cheered for the Queen, but the sailors on the American ship remain silent. I think that's just rude.


Why? When the Queen visited the Wimbledon tennis tournament during the match between Murray and Nieminen. Nieminen bowed at the Queen and was OK with it. After the match Nieminen told it was great to meet the Queen.

/ (http://blog.taragana.com/sports/2010/06/24/queen-elizabeth-visits-wimbledon-for-1st-time-since-1977-and-watches-murray-nieminen-match-114921/)



Opps, Eki-wiki, you are blowing your cover, big time!!! :eek: :eek:

Only a Brit would say such nonsense, and this latest song is NOT in harmony with all your other usual tunes about the world, loving North Korea, loving the Iran president, defending pedo prophets and killing off cartoonists and and so forth........even your language structure and grammer betray you.... ;)

My money says you are Mark, the administrator, incognitio, busy trolling to stir up interest in his website or just doing it cause you can....or Easy, when he forgets to take his meds, and goes schizoid......

I would say jag off his meds, but Eki sounds too brit to be Jag......and mark oshawa, he is too analytical and level headed, daniel is too, and is so much gonna say what he is gonna say and would not hide behind an incognito (and would have no need to hide), and same for Taz as is too Taz, and donkey jote only thinks with the small head, about all the women everyone else gots but him........

And all you got to do is compare the small and few posts by Mark and see the similarities..... :s mokin:

[Eki]

Opps, Eki-wiki, you are blowing your cover, big time!!! :eek: :eek:

Only a Brit would say such nonsense, and this latest song is NOT in harmony with all your other usual tunes about the world, loving North Korea, loving the Iran president, defending pedo prophets and killing off cartoonists and and so forth........even your language structure and grammer betray you.... ;)

My money says you are Mark, the administrator, incognitio, busy trolling to stir up interest in his website or just doing it cause you can....or Easy, when he forgets to take his meds, and goes schizoid......

I would say jag off his meds, but Eki sounds too brit to be Jag......and mark oshawa, he is too analytical and level headed, daniel is too, and is so much gonna say what he is gonna say and would not hide behind an incognito (and would have no need to hide), and same for Taz as is too Taz, and donkey jote only thinks with the small head, about all the women everyone else gots but him........

And all you got to do is compare the small and few posts by Mark and see the similarities..... :s mokin:
Now there's a conspiracy theory, if you've ever seen one.

[F1boat]

Good.

Society as whole would be better off if we considered everyone else as better than us. It would lead to things like manners, chivalry and courtesy.

Very well said. I also think that it is good manners and respect when bowing to royals and some priests (even if I am not religious). But for some people, I see, the concept of good manners is very, very alien.

[Mark]

Recently, there were news about some Americans been upset because Barak Obama bowed to the Emperor of Japan. I just watched news from Halifax, Canada, where there were celebrations of the Canadian Navy. Queen Elisabeth II was a guest there, and she's nominally also the Queen of Canada. There were also ships from the UK, France and the US. Sailors on the British and the French ships cheered for the Queen, but the sailors on the American ship remain silent. I think that's just rude.

American tradition I think. There is the culture / tradition, call it what you will, that America is a 'free' nation and as such is not deferential to anybody. Goes back to the struggle for Independence.

But there's a difference between that and showing respect.

[Mark]

The Queen is probably one of the most respected people in the world. And certainly for the UK she's been that constant throughout most of our lives that no matter what the state of the country, or who's ultimately in office, the Queen remains.

Will that fondness also be displayed for Charles or William? I don't know.

[markabilly]

Bingo!!!!!!!!!!

[Mark in Oshawa]

Mark your point is rather trivial. Some Americans really think quite highly of the Queen of England, and demonstrate it at appropriate events or whenever they please. Others simply don't care one way or another. We are, and have always been a very diverse people.
I’ve heard very little serious criticism of her and I've lived on this rock for 56 years. 1776, 1815 was a long time ago. In the real world I don't think I’ve heard much negative comments about her here in the good old US of A. But I have heard some very nice things said about her. In a society that worships celebrity she's is just another player to me. But unlike most others she is famous, not infamous. That's all. MO :cool:

I can buy that. Actually, I think that was sorta my point at one point...lol.

Some Americans have royalty envy, but as it was also pointed out, it is mainly women!

All I know is unlike Eki, I understand why the American protocols for dealing with royalty are different than how other nations deal with it, and since the UK 's notorious tabloid press didn't write about this "incident" in Halifax that has Eki all bent out of shape, there must NOT have been anything out of the ordinary AT all.

EKI is just stirring the pot again.....

[Tazio]

I can buy that. Actually, I think that was sorta my point at one point...lol.

Some Americans have royalty envy, but as it was also pointed out, it is mainly women!

All I know is unlike Eki, I understand why the American protocols for dealing with royalty are different than how other nations deal with it, and since the UK 's notorious tabloid press didn't write about this "incident" in Halifax that has Eki all bent out of shape, there must NOT have been anything out of the ordinary AT all.

EKI is just stirring the pot again..... ;) :up: