Coke Zero 400 Racethread (Daytona)

[slorydn1]

Track:Daytona International Speedway
Track/Race Length: 2.5 mile oval, 160 laps, 400 miles
Tri-oval with 31-degree banking in the turns
18-degree banking in the tri-oval and 6-degree banking on the straightaways
Date track opened: 1959
Banking in turns 1-4: 31 degrees
Banking in tri-oval: 18 degrees
Banking on backstretch: 3 degrees
Banking on the straightaway: 6 degrees
Length of frontstretch: 3,800 feet
Length of backstretch: 3,400 feet
Grandstand Seating: 168,000.
Pit Road Speed: 55 mph
Pace Car Speed: 70 mph
Pit Road Length: 1,600 feet
Pit Road Width: 50 feet
Opened: 1959
Track Record:Bill Elliott, 42.783 sec @ 210.364mph, February 1987
Track Record (restrictor plate):Ken Schrader, 45.686 sec @ 196.996mph, February 1989
Most Wins - Active: 6 - Jeff Gordon
http://jayski.com/next/2010/18dis2010.htm

[slorydn1]

As you may have noted from the first post, the restrictor plate track record at Daytona is 45.686 seconds @ 196.996mph. That was set way back in Feb 1989 in Daytona 500 quals-thats the race that DW won in the Tide Ride, so those of you who are old enough to remember DW doing the Icky Shuffle in victory lane can remember what the cars looked like. That was set with a 1 inch plate and had no limit as to rear spoiler angle.

For this year's 500 back in February,they ran a 63/64 inch plate, and the pole was 47.074 sec @ 191.188mph, and they had the wing with the sideplates and wickers mounted on the car.

For the upcoming race they will be running a 1 1/32 inch plate (or a 66/64 inch, if u prefer) and a mandated 70 degree rear spoiler angle. They will have, by far, the most horsepower they've had at Daytona in a generation.

So, will the restrictor plate qualifying record be in jeopardy this year? I don't belive so, and here's a few reason's why:

1) Track Surface: the pavement is the very same pavement that Kenny Schrader set that record on. Heck, it's the very same pavement that Bill Elliot set the real track record on. In fact, it's so old and wore out, its the same pavement that Cale Yarborough's face kept hitting Bobby Allison's fist on!
Although the drivers will still be flat on the floor all the way around, the loss of grip alone will be causing the drivers to work the wheel more than they would like to, therefore scrubbing off some speed.

2) Spoiler angle: Back in '89 the teams were able to lay the spoiler down, reducing drag, and allowing for greater straightaway speed. Now they'll be dragging a 70 degree billboard around with them. The drag, combined with the pavement alone should be enough to keep the speed right around the same as Schrader's record

3) Weight: that car was 3400 lbs-the COT is 3500 lbs and has more right side weight percentage than they had in '89

4) 1 Engine Rule: Needless to say they won't be bringing the grenade motors for Qually like they did back in the day. Back then, you would probably use 3 engine's in a weekend. You'd practice with an old race motor, then bolt in the all out lightweight "hope it lasts 3 laps" grenade motor, go back to your mule for practice again, then bolt in the race motor for Final Practice and the race.

5) Impound race: You won't be seeing engine and gear oil with the conistency of water in these bad boys

6) Heat: That record was set in February. This will be July. You do the math :p :

All that said, I think it will be close. If rain doesn't cancel qually I'm gonna predict the pole time will be 46.380 @ 194.049 mph....

[damg75]

Just a correction on #3: The cars back in 1989 weighed 3500lbs, they didn't drop to 3400lbs until the mid 1990's; also, the COT weighs 3450lbs, but nonetheless you are correct about the right side weight being heavier in the COT. I actually think they'll be slower than what u predicted...probably closer to 46.753 secs, 192.500 mph.

[slorydn1]

Just a correction on #3: The cars back in 1989 weighed 3500lbs, they didn't drop to 3400lbs until the mid 1990's; also, the COT weighs 3450lbs, but nonetheless you are correct about the right side weight being heavier in the COT. I actually think they'll be slower than what u predicted...probably closer to 46.753 secs, 192.500 mph.

That's right, I forgot abut the mid 90's weight change.....But I could have sworn I read somewhere recently that the COT is 3500...oh well whats 50 lbs when you have drivers weight as diverse as a linebacker and a ballerina packed in there on top of it :p :

I see u are going out on a limb with me on the prediction, huh?

[muggle not]

That's right, I forgot abut the mid 90's weight change.....But I could have sworn I read somewhere recently that the COT is 3500...oh well whats 50 lbs when you have drivers weight as diverse as a linebacker and a ballerina packed in there on top of it :p :

I see u are going out on a limb with me on the prediction, huh?
Ouy on a limb, naw, out on a limb is when I predict Jr gets the pole. :)

[slorydn1]

Ouy on a limb, naw, out on a limb is when I predict Jr gets the pole. :)

LOL :rotflmao:

Actually, don't put it past him...with that Hendrick plate package he probably could

[call_me_andrew]

5) Impound race: You won't be seeing engine and gear oil with the conistency of water in these bad boys

I suspect some of the non-top-35 teams might try that and hope for an early caution.

I think it would be kind of nice if NASCAR would allow the teams to qualify using unrestricted engines and a low spoiler, but that would probably throw a wrench in the practice sessions.

[slorydn1]

I think it would be kind of nice if NASCAR would allow the teams to qualify using unrestricted engines and a low spoiler,....

hell yeah :up:


but that would probably throw a wrench in the practice sessions.

Yeah, it would make Webber-v-Kovaleinen look like a fender bender at a stoplight :D :p :

[Copse]

Track/Race Length: 2.5 mile oval, 160 laps, 400 miles
Tri-oval with 31-degree banking in the turns
18-degree banking in the tri-oval and 6-degree banking on the straightaways
Date track opened: 1959
Banking in turns 1-4: 31 degrees
Banking in tri-oval: 18 degrees
Banking on backstretch: 3 degrees
Banking on the straightaway: 6 degrees
Length of frontstretch: 3,800 feet
Length of backstretch: 3,400 feet
Grandstand Seating: 168,000.
Pit Road Speed: 55 mph
Pace Car Speed: 70 mph
Pit Road Length: 1,600 feet
Pit Road Width: 50 feet
Opened: 1959
Track Record:Bill Elliott, 42.783 sec @ 210.364mph, February 1987
Track Record (restrictor plate):Ken Schrader, 45.686 sec @ 196.996mph, February 1989
Most Wins - Active: 6 - Jeff Gordon
http://jayski.com/next/2010/18dis2010.htm

I have a suggestion for a minor change to make that summary immensely more useful for us casual viewers: Please include the track name! I don't know how it works for the NASCAR diehards, but I don't automatically think Daytona when I read Coke Zero 400.

About the restrictor plate track record: Isn't it all very very difficult to compare, since they have changed the size of the restrictor so may times over the years? Or has the fundamental difference of pack/freight train racing vs. racing like on most other ovals always been clear cut since they started using restrictors?

[slorydn1]

I have a suggestion for a minor change to make that summary immensely more useful for us casual viewers: Please include the track name! I don't know how it works for the NASCAR diehards, but I don't automatically think Daytona when I read Coke Zero 400.

Very good point, and it has been fixed. I will try to keep that in mind going forward. See, over here, there is so much media involved that one just casually "knows" that the next round is at Daytona. But on reflection, you are right; I cant tell you where the next F1 race is without looking it up first, and I shouldn't expect everyone to know what the next race is.



About the restrictor plate track record: Isn't it all very very difficult to compare, since they have changed the size of the restrictor so may times over the years? Or has the fundamental difference of pack/freight train racing vs. racing like on most other ovals always been clear cut since they started using restrictors?

Yes, it is. However, it is what it is. Nascar recognizes the fastest lap turned in the Cup series at a track as the track record. At Daytona and Talladega, they also recognize a second record, the fastest lap set with a restrictor plate.
You are correct, the plate size and many other factors contribute to that.
Keep this in mind too: The "Track Record" (both unrestricted, and with a plate) are set in qualifying, and that is the same as every other track. The problem is, at the restrictor plate races, that's not the fastest lap of a given race weekend by a long shot. Depending on the plate size and number of cars in a pack, the fastest lap of a race weekend could be as much as 10 mph faster (apporximately 2 seconds at Daytona) in the race than it was in qualifying!

[slorydn1]

Cup Practice is under way...but it doesn't look like it's gonna last long there is a bad thunderstorm in the area.....it's pitch black off turn 1.

[slorydn1]

I stand corrected....the rain seems to be skirting just t the west of the track, along I-95....they may get the whole practice in

[slorydn1]

First Practice just finished. They got it all in :up:

[damg75]

Needless to say, judging by what speeds were turned in the draft yesterday (the fastest was 195mph), both slorydn1 and myself are gonna be WAY OFF our pole predictions...if they even hit 190mph in qualifying, I'll be pleasantly surprised; should have known that NASCAR knew the speeds would be "in check" to allow a restrictor plate as big as this one is on the cars. I guess we both underestimated the amount of drag that spoiler is causing in comparison with the wing; also, NASCAR mandated different rear springs from February to get that spoiler up in the air to cause even more drag. Still, I LOVE the sound of the engines with all that RPM they're now turning with the bigger plate. :s mokin:

[00steven]

I love restrictor plate racing but it sure does make me nervous!

[call_me_andrew]

I love restrictor plate racing but it sure does make me nervous!

Would you like to watch some paint dry?

[Jonesi]

Weather radar looks a lot worse than the announcers are making this light shower.

[harvick#1]

Would you like to watch some paint dry?

watching grass grow is actually more fun

[muggle not]

I think we will see a pretty good race. Hope I can stay up long enough to watch it end.

[e2mtt]

Sorry, no matter what Kyle wants to say, he did kinda turn across the nose of the 42. Apparently be wasn't actually gonna win the race.

[harvick#1]

Sorry, no matter what Kyle wants to say, he did kinda turn across the nose of the 42. Apparently be wasn't actually gonna win the race.

Its never Kyle's fault, but I think this was a spotter accident, Kyle was moving up thinking he had JPM cleared, but he wasnt. a racing incident

[Jonesi]

Once he calmed down and saw the replay, I think he had it right. #42 got him aero loose and if it had happened a couple laps earlier he would have still had grip enough in the tires to control it. This was offsetting the emotional Kyle who just wanted to blame (and rant about) Montoya.

[call_me_andrew]

Anyone else notice TNT didn't display on board telemetry until lap 130?

[call_me_andrew]

2 laps to go, there's a crash at the back of the pack exiting turn 4, why are we having a green-white-checker?

[call_me_andrew]

Of course no yellow comes out when a spin way behind the leaders occours on the white flag lap...

[harvick#1]

ohhhhhhhhh HAPPY DAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D does this week not get any better

[Sparky1329]

I'm thrilled to death! Kevin won, Jr had a top ten finish, Robby finished 12th and Steve Park finished 13th! :D

[Bob Riebe]

I have a suggestion for a minor change to make that summary immensely more useful for us casual viewers: Please include the track name! I don't know how it works for the NASCAR diehards, but I don't automatically think Daytona when I read Coke Zero 400.


It used to be the Firecracker 400 till the crackers that run the track put money over honoring a U.S.Independence Day holiday tradition.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Sorry, no matter what Kyle wants to say, he did kinda turn across the nose of the 42. Apparently be wasn't actually gonna win the race.
He did the same thing in the last laps when Tony Stewart spun him last year. He tried to cut in front to pick up the draft and the push and he wasn't clear. He is a dope and he does this every year and he NEVER learns...

[Mark in Oshawa]

Its never Kyle's fault, but I think this was a spotter accident, Kyle was moving up thinking he had JPM cleared, but he wasnt. a racing incident

If the spotter doesn't go clear, and you hit the guy behind you, it is bad on you...because he was clearly faster than JPM so his complaint that JPM took him out would only hold water if you didn't see the head on shot that TNT showed him. He clearly moved up to get in front of JPM and I didn't hear his spotter say the magic word. So if he isn't going to wait, he has to suffer the consequences of his own impatience....

[Mark in Oshawa]

Congrats to the Harvick camp. It was clear to me that an RCR car was going to win this thing....but I thought Burton would be the guy tonight....

[harvick#1]

If the spotter doesn't go clear, and you hit the guy behind you, it is bad on you...because he was clearly faster than JPM so his complaint that JPM took him out would only hold water if you didn't see the head on shot that TNT showed him. He clearly moved up to get in front of JPM and I didn't hear his spotter say the magic word. So if he isn't going to wait, he has to suffer the consequences of his own impatience....

yeah, I agree with you there, when Kyle saw the replay, you heard him basically choke up admitting fault but trying to say it still in a way to slam Montoya.

[muggle not]

yeah, I agree with you there, when Kyle saw the replay, you heard him basically choke up admitting fault but trying to say it still in a way to slam Montoya.
Did you expect anything else :) , once a punk - always a punk. :)

Congrats to the top 12. great to see Harvick winning and Jr back in the points for the chase.

[00steven]

Well, I rather be a fan of a punk then a cocky jerk.

[slorydn1]

Well, I rather be a fan of a punk then a cocky jerk.


I fail to see the distinction......... :p : :s mokin:

[slorydn1]

Sorry I'm late...but 1am was too late at nite when I had to be up at 5am to be at work...so I'll get it in now:



WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

:beer: :beer: :beer:

[00steven]

I fail to see the distinction......... :p : :s mokin:



Cocky jerk = #29

[muggle not]

Well, I rather be a fan of a punk then a cocky jerk.


I fail to see the distinction......... :p : :s mokin:

Quote of the week by slorydn1 as noted above. :)

[harvick#1]

anyone else notice Steve Park in his first race in 2010 back in cup was 13th place :D :beer:

[TURN3]

Has the race ended yet?

[harvick#1]

Well, I rather be a fan of a punk then a cocky jerk.

I believe that punk/cocky jerk is the same person. how can you stand Kyle when he acts like an ass in his interviews.

he must be spending too much time with Danica or something, cause hes got the "its not my fault" attitude

[wbcobrar]

As I have said before lil' shrub can drive. On the track he is one of the best. Last night he clearly turned himself (in spite of what the TNT booth declared). It happens to the best drivers, but he gets out of the car and has this temper tantrum like a 5 year old, and all respect he has earned for himself just evaporates. Congrats to the RCR nation , they earned that win, in spite of the lotto reputation of the the plate races, if you run up front all race you limit your exposure to the "big one".

[Sparky1329]

anyone else notice Steve Park in his first race in 2010 back in cup was 13th place :D :beer:

You bet yer bippy I did! I'm still grinning for him. :D

[Sparky1329]

Well, I rather be a fan of a punk then a cocky jerk.

Kyle covers both characterizations if you ask me.

[00steven]

Well I didn't, I don't really care what you say about Kyle. We'll just have to see who finishes higher in the chase.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Well I didn't, I don't really care what you say about Kyle. We'll just have to see who finishes higher in the chase.

Harvick will beat Kyle in the chase. It is clear to me after Saturday night Kyle hasn't learned much in the last 3 years.

Until he does, he will likely not get the finish in the chase his talent deserves.

Everyone knows the Shrub is all world in talent, but he has a 10 cent head at times, and it just kills him. Watch all the Plate races where he wrecks, and the accident is the SAME almost every time. The concept of clearing the car behind you just seems to be something he feels he doesn't have to wait for. He has no patience. Watch his wreck with Tony last year, and watch the one with JPM Saturday night and essentially they are the same accident. He was swerving to get the push, and he wasn't clear and he is mad the guy being passed didn't get out of the throttle. He does the same thing over and over again expecting a better result.....isn't that insanity?

Kyle Busch has the potential to be a great champion, but unlike his older brother, Kyle hasn't learned that you sometimes have to admit your sins to the world before moving on.....and he has to learn patience.

Kurt for all his faults, displays a lot of patience behind the wheel.....Kyle can if things are going his way...but only then.

[e2mtt]

He just turned 25. If he was racing in the '50s & '60s, he'd probably be dead soon, or already. As it is, he has plenty of time to calm down & win a championship.

As it is, he makes a great "bad guy" for Nascar, and beating him head-to-head on track is a real accomplishment.

[harvick#1]

Well I didn't, I don't really care what you say about Kyle. We'll just have to see who finishes higher in the chase.

so your only gonna judge off a the chase. and not the fact that Harvick has over a 200 point lead over EVERYONE right now in the standings after 18 races :rolleyes:

[wbcobrar]

What shrub lacks as a driver is respect and an ability to controle himself and his emotions. As far as him being a "bad guy" , I just don't respect him enough for that. I thought of Dale Sr. as the prototype "bad guy". If he got out of the car after doing something bone-headed he never cryed or blamed the other driver (unless the other driver needed blame).

[00steven]

so your only gonna judge off a the chase. and not the fact that Harvick has over a 200 point lead over EVERYONE right now in the standings after 18 races :rolleyes:


You mean like Kyle in 2008? :rolleyes:

[Sparky1329]

Harvick will beat Kyle in the chase. It is clear to me after Saturday night Kyle hasn't learned much in the last 3 years.

Until he does, he will likely not get the finish in the chase his talent deserves.

Everyone knows the Shrub is all world in talent, but he has a 10 cent head at times, and it just kills him. Watch all the Plate races where he wrecks, and the accident is the SAME almost every time. The concept of clearing the car behind you just seems to be something he feels he doesn't have to wait for. He has no patience. Watch his wreck with Tony last year, and watch the one with JPM Saturday night and essentially they are the same accident. He was swerving to get the push, and he wasn't clear and he is mad the guy being passed didn't get out of the throttle. He does the same thing over and over again expecting a better result.....isn't that insanity?

Kyle Busch has the potential to be a great champion, but unlike his older brother, Kyle hasn't learned that you sometimes have to admit your sins to the world before moving on.....and he has to learn patience.

Kurt for all his faults, displays a lot of patience behind the wheel.....Kyle can if things are going his way...but only then.

Bingo!

[e2mtt]

What shrub lacks as a driver is respect and an ability to controle himself and his emotions. As far as him being a "bad guy" , I just don't respect him enough for that. I thought of Dale Sr. as the prototype "bad guy". If he got out of the car after doing something bone-headed he never cryed or blamed the other driver (unless the other driver needed blame).

Yes. Shrub is not the next Dale. Dale was the Intimidator. Kyle Busch is more a stereotype "villian" from a kids movie.

Its true though, these days the 2 things that make the grandstands cheer the loudest are Junior taking the lead & Kyle Busch crashing!

[wbcobrar]

This Sunday after the Chicago race Matt and Shrub are coming to my local short track(Slinger Superspeedway the worlds fastest quarter mile oval) to race in the "nationals" in super late models. He's been here before and he always wrecks himself trying to big time these local drivers that have been winning on this track for ever. Punk. Big Shrub was a knob when he was younger too , even the new more mature Kurt Busch has his moments, but he is a champion, he's Got It Done. Lets face it If any of us were pulling down the pile of cake these gyes get to jet around the country and race cars the ego tends to swell, and that is sometimes confidence and sometimes whatever tiara wearing diva ,cartoon villian personality quirk "Rowdy" has .

[Mark in Oshawa]

The Sad part? Kyle Busch may have more talent than any other driver out there for car control, but he just has a mind that cannot understand that you have to be smart.

AS for Harvick's season, and his abilities, he will be seated well in the chase, and if he loses it, it will be on him, no on else. If you are good at the start of the season, you have to be good at the end of the season as well and that is just the reality of it, chase or no chase. No one would care about a champion who had a huge lead in July, and to see him suck all fall and win by 2 points.....