Time to fire Whiting and his crew?

[markabilly]

so it would seem to be with me, as more and more we have these screwed up penalty stuff and the entry of the SC into the race, with its poor timing......how stupid......and it seems now to happenning even more frequently.

long overdue

[Ranger]

Agreed, he and the stewards were piss-poor today.

[Daniel]

so it would seem to be with me, as more and more we have these screwed up penalty stuff and the entry of the SC into the race, with its poor timing......how stupid......and it seems now to happenning even more frequently.

long overdue
Pissweak, truly pissweak. They ummed and ahh'ed over the penalty and in the end Hamilton got it at a convenient time. You can't blame Hamilton for that, people make mistakes and he got penalised, but the timing was just all wrong.

[CNR]

i think lewis got away easy
what happened to the 10 second stop go Drive Through Penalty


The ten-second (or "stop-go") penalty requires the driver to enter the pitlane, stop at his pit for ten seconds, and exit again. As the stop is designed to punish the driver for an offence, Stop-go penalties are generally imposed for more serious offences, such as jump starts, pit lane speeding, ignoring blue flags or unfair blocking. The ten second halt makes a stop-go penalty much more costly to a driver's race times than a drive-through penalty.

[ioan]

This should have happened already many years ago.
Who knows what secrets Whiting holds and the FIA do not have the balls to have all that crap go public?!

[Ranger]

Well, at least they're not as bad as World Cup referees! :D

[markabilly]

Well, at least they're not as bad as World Cuf referees! :D
Those guys have a very good excuse.

Those guys have to run around on the field, in the middle of the melee, and deal with all sorts of stuff, without the benefit of 25 minutes of replays to figure out if they are blind in both eyes or just blind in one eye and can not see out the other


they did a terrible job deploying the SC, could not figure out what to do with Hamilton for way too long, then they can not do math to figure out if anyone was speeding....

Similar to FA and MS at Monaco.....they throw all these white flags and say go!!!!

but really did not mean it....all they needed was a clear rule in place for the "faux race finishes" so everyone would know it was just for show...

[Mia 01]

Those guys have a very good excuse.

Those guys have to run around on the field, in the middle of the melee, and deal with all sorts of stuff, without the benefit of 25 minutes of replays to figure out if they are blind in both eyes or just blind in one eye and can not see out the other

You are right, the stewards really are MacLaren and Lewis friends this year.

It seems as they waited until Lewis got a big enough gap to Koba and Jenson.

[markabilly]

You are right, the stewards really are MacLaren and Lewis friends this year.

It seems as they waited until Lewis got a big enough gap to Koba and Jenson.
after the penalties, if they put 25 seconds on button, we will know that is not true as to favs.

i think it is just incompetence---

[truefan72]

Well, at least they're not as bad as World Cup referees! :D

how true, just watched that first half and while I have no dog in this fight it was a terrible terrible call from the ref. Even the guy in row 42 section 101 could see it was a goal. The linesman was yards behind the play. Fifa should just come out at the 2nd half and say score 2:2

[Mia 01]

how true, just watched that first half and while I have no dog in this fight it was a terrible terrible call from the ref. Even the guy in row 42 section 101 could see it was a goal. The linesman was yards behind the play. Fifa should just come out at the 2nd half and say score 2:2

Or perhaps Fernando alonso shall do that. :dozey:

[markabilly]

Get this, as best as i can tell from timing, because of pit layout, the drive through cost a mere 12 seconds, if that, BUT the after the race penalty is 25 seconds.....

FA should have passed as well......he would have been third, with his drive through, if both had to do it at the same time

[donKey jote]

FA should have passed as well......he would have been third, with his drive through, if both had to do it at the same time
that´s precisely why he´s moaning :)

[I am evil Homer]

Of course thats why! As for Whiting and the team many times the SC timing has been questionable and so it proved today.

[truefan72]

that´s precisely why he´s moaning :)

exactly.

[donKey jote]

hmm... another interpretation, this time from the truly unbiassed German angle:

Alonso was unfairly blocked by Ham to force him to stay behind the SC while Ham could squeeze in front :crazy:

If true, :up: and quick thinking to Ham !

[donKey jote]

http://www.spiegel.de/sport/formel1/0,1518,703142,00.html

"Der Spanier war zuvor allerdings von Hamilton unfair ausgebremst worden: Der Brite fuhr in dem Moment an der Ausfahrt der Boxengasse vorbei, als das Safety Car auf die Strecke kam. Er bremste kurz ab, gab dann aber plötzlich wieder Gas und zog am Safety Car vorbei. Alonso musste abstoppen, da das Überholen des Safety Cars verboten ist, und verlor durch die Aktion viel Zeit."

or, to quote Babelfish ;) :

" The Spaniard had been unfairly expenditure-braked before however of Hamilton: The Britisher drove past in the moment at the exit of the box lane, when the Safety Car came on the distance. It braked briefly, gave then however suddenly again gas and pulled on the Safety Car past. Alonso had to stop, since overhauling of the Safety Cars is forbidden, and lost by the action much Zeit." :laugh:

[markabilly]

hmm... another interpretation, this time from the truly unbiassed German angle:

Alonso was unfairly blocked by Ham to force him to stay behind the SC while Ham could squeeze in front :crazy:

If true, :up: and quick thinking to Ham !
funny, but it think he did exactly that with help from his crew. Ham was very slow on that on that lap and held up FA, then tried to squeeze by.....Brilliant....

[markabilly]

what a 5 second penalty??

I thought clearly that is not allowed, either nothing or 25 seconds???

[ioan]

what a 5 second penalty??

I thought clearly that is not outlawed, either nothing or 25 seconds???

Welcome to the FIA's reign!

You can have some koolaid now. :D

[ioan]

what a 5 second penalty??

I thought clearly that is not outlawed, either nothing or 25 seconds???

Welcome to the FIA's reign,eh, I mean show!

You can have some koolaid now. :D

[markabilly]

:beer: :beer: :beer:


allowed, although outlaw might be better :beer:

so why did schuie not get a one second penalty at monaco??????

i am just not smart enough for all this complicated math..... :beer:

[SGWilko]

Don't blame Withing, it was Whiting at fault.......

[markabilly]

okay, at spa that year, Lewis had to get a 25 second penalty, no choice

MS had to get a 25 (or is it 20???) at monaco, no choice...

but here it is 5 seconds cause they have a choice???

errhuuhh??
let me see, here now.... :beer:

not helping..... :beer: still not helping...... :beer: :beer:


i give up...

okay I am ready to fire.....so, Charlie and crew, where do you boys want it...

[52Paddy]

I totally agree. Get some fresh heads in there. The idea of having an ex-driver as a steward, I think helps the situation, as it gives more scope. But they can only advise and the ultimate decision does not lie with them. So definitely, away with Whiting!

[jens]

I also have an impression that the amount of cock-ups has been increasing in recent years. I don't think how much of it is down to Charlie Whiting being "past his prime" to put it that way, but a fresh and new face is certainly needed sooner or later.

[truefan72]

what a 5 second penalty??

I thought clearly that is not allowed, either nothing or 25 seconds???

pathetic decision

[ioan]

pathetic decision

Just wait until the 3.729 seconds penalty comes into play next time around! :D

[wedge]

It's not entirely Withing's fault.

We have crap rules at dispensing fair and proper penalties.

Mind you, I was rather surprised there was no 'debris caution' for that errantly discarded bottle.

[steveaki13]

Just wait until the 3.729 seconds penalty comes into play next time around! :D


:up: :laugh:

[steveaki13]

Mind you, I was rather surprised there was no 'debris caution' for that errantly discarded bottle.

Me too, after all was it Monaco where they took precaution when we had a SC for a drain cover that I never saw any evidence of?

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I never saw any drain cover loose on TV.

I thought therefore that they should have sent out the SC and let the marshall remove it risk free

[CNR]

what a joke add the other 20 seconds


Note - Button, Barrichello, Kubica, Sutil, Buemi, De la Rosa, Petrov, Liuzzi and Hulkenberg all had five seconds added to their race times for speeding under safety-car conditions. Glock had 20 seconds added for ignoring blue flags.


Sebastian Vettel (http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2010/822.html) 1st
Lewis Hamilton (http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2010/828.html) 2nd
Jenson Button (http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2010/6.html) (12.6 sec) (32.6 sec)
Rubens Barrichello (http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2010/8.html)(25.6 sec) (45.6 sec)
Robert Kubica (http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2010/815.html) (27.1 sec) (47.1sec)
Adrian Sutil (http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2010/818.html) (30.1 sec) (50.1 sec)
Kamui Kobayashi (http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2010/837.html) (30.9sec) (3rd)
Fernando Alonso (http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2010/30.html) (32.8sec) (4th)
Nico Rosberg (http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2010/809.html) (44.3 sec) (5th)

[Easy Drifter]

Let us get a couple of thing clear here.
First Charlie Whiting is not a steward and does not impose penalties.
He can advise the Stewards but that is all.
In the middle of a race he does not need the distractions of discussing possible penalties with the stewards.
The ex driver is a full steward and has the same power as the other 3 but no more.
People are complaining about Whiting's slow decisions to deploy the safety car etc.
Has anyone here ever even been in race control during a major race?
Better yet involved in making a decision.
I have and conflicting info is common. It is not fun or easy.
He is also being yapped at by assorted teams about precieved wrongs.
Certainly less tricky today because more info available on screen than years ago but every situation has to be evaluated and what they are seeing on the screen(s) may not be clear.
Yes he probably could do better but who is going to be his replacement?
It is a bi---h of a job.
It is like those who contantly say a driver should have done this or that. A driver does not have time to sit back in an armchair and debate what to do. A driver does not have time to think it out. He reacts and sometimes right and sometimes wrong.

[mstillhere]

Let us get a couple of thing clear here.
First Charlie Whiting is not a steward and does not impose penalties.
He can advise the Stewards but that is all.
In the middle of a race he does not need the distractions of discussing possible penalties with the stewards.
The ex driver is a full steward and has the same power as the other 3 but no more.
People are complaining about Whiting's slow decisions to deploy the safety car etc.
Has anyone here ever even been in race control during a major race?
Better yet involved in making a decision.
I have and conflicting info is common. It is not fun or easy.
He is also being yapped at by assorted teams about precieved wrongs.
Certainly less tricky today because more info available on screen than years ago but every situation has to be evaluated and what they are seeing on the screen(s) may not be clear.
Yes he probably could do better but who is going to be his replacement?
It is a bi---h of a job.
It is like those who contantly say a driver should have done this or that. A driver does not have time to sit back in an armchair and debate what to do. A driver does not have time to think it out. He reacts and sometimes right and sometimes wrong.

A driver does not have time to think it out?? A driver sees the SC on the track and he follows it. What's so hard about that? LH nor his team over and over again has not suffered any true consequences for their unruly behavior. Alonso was punished and RATHER QUICKLY I might add. LH has been reprimanded several times recently. If reprimands don't mean anything, what's the point of reprimanding??? By refusing to take serious action, the message the FIA is sending is to further encourage such an unruly behaviour. I am expecting more of this crap and you know exactly from whom.

[SGWilko]

A driver does not have time to think it out?? A driver sees the SC on the track and he follows it. What's so hard about that? LH nor his team over and over again has not suffered any true consequences for their unruly behavior. Alonso was punished and RATHER QUICKLY I might add. LH has been reprimanded several times recently. If reprimands don't mean anything, what's the point of reprimanding??? By refusing to take serious action, the message the FIA is sending is to further encourage such an unruly behaviour. I am expecting more of this crap and you know exactly from whom.

Indeed, but it is the SC pilot who should be ON TRACK ready to pick up the leader, not ambling down the pit lane. The white line that depicts the pit lane exit that the SC was still within, is the same line that drivers must not cross.

The argument is therefore twofold;

Lewis thought, mistakenly, he was ahead of the SC,

And

The SC was still not on the race track.

Whose fault is that - Thames Water Utilities? ;)

[52Paddy]

The ex driver is a full steward and has the same power as the other 3 but no more.

Cheers. This, I had not been aware of.

[Big Ben]

Just wait until the 3.729 seconds penalty comes into play next time around! :D

Good one :laugh:

[markabilly]

Let us get a couple of thing clear here.
First Charlie Whiting is not a steward and does not impose penalties.
He can advise the Stewards but that is all.
In the middle of a race he does not need the distractions of discussing possible penalties with the stewards.
The ex driver is a full steward and has the same power as the other 3 but no more.
People are complaining about Whiting's slow decisions to deploy the safety car etc.
Has anyone here ever even been in race control during a major race?
Better yet involved in making a decision.
I have and conflicting info is common. It is not fun or easy.
He is also being yapped at by assorted teams about precieved wrongs.
Certainly less tricky today because more info available on screen than years ago but every situation has to be evaluated and what they are seeing on the screen(s) may not be clear.
Yes he probably could do better but who is going to be his replacement?
It is a bi---h of a job.
It is like those who contantly say a driver should have done this or that. A driver does not have time to sit back in an armchair and debate what to do. A driver does not have time to think it out. He reacts and sometimes right and sometimes wrong.
Yes, a tough job, no question.

but the wagon is clearly broken, and the problems are getting worse.

He is the race director as well as safety delegate, and responsible for pushing the buttons. When Lewis passed Kimi at Spa, the question was put to Whiting, was that okay, and his response was I think it is fine (or something like that). Well, we know how that turned out....

He pushed the pitlane red light button yesterday and also sent the sc out, and directs it. Not only is he one of the stewards, he also advises the stewards and determines when to involve them.

At Monaco, he took down the yellow and put out the green, something just the opposite of the Australian GP.
Then we have Vettel and Hamilton racing in the pitlane, and they both get a meaningless reprimand, but later we have FA and LH racing in the pitlane and nothing said. The only difference was the amount of swerving.

At Monaco, we have the Rubens toss of the wheel, and he forgets about it while worrying over MS, so nothing is said

and I could go on and on......if it ain't broke, don't be fixing it....but this wagon is busted

[AndyL]

what a joke add the other 20 seconds


Sebastian Vettel (http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2010/822.html) 1st
Lewis Hamilton (http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2010/828.html) 2nd
Jenson Button (http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2010/6.html) (12.6 sec) (32.6 sec)
Rubens Barrichello (http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2010/8.html)(25.6 sec) (45.6 sec)
Robert Kubica (http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2010/815.html) (27.1 sec) (47.1sec)
Adrian Sutil (http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2010/818.html) (30.1 sec) (50.1 sec)
Kamui Kobayashi (http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2010/837.html) (30.9sec) (3rd)
Fernando Alonso (http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2010/30.html) (32.8sec) (4th)
Nico Rosberg (http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2010/809.html) (44.3 sec) (5th)

Button would have been 4th, Alonso 5th and Rosberg 6th with a 25 second penalty.

As it was, Button's fastest laps at the end were wasted; if he'd known Charlie was going to come up with this 5 second penalty he could have taken it easy.

I can't help wondering what would have happened if only one driver had committed this infringement. I bet they would've got more than 5 seconds.

[Easy Drifter]

Charlie Whiting is not a steward. He does not make the decision to involve them. He is responsible for the running of the race. Rule infractions are the stewards responsibility.
Yes he has made mistakes but has any one a suggestion as to who his replacement should be?
Barnhardt from IC? Yeah right!!!!!!
A permanent body of stewards would be a good idea. Right now you get a different group every race. Many have no racing experience whatsoever. That was the main reason that there is now a former driver there to advise them and he does have a vote and is a steward. However, we have often seen how various drivers see a situation differently and I do not mean those actually involved.
However most drivers, both current and former, do not know the rulebook so they are there mainly to try a give a driver's viewpoint of an incident.
Again I doubt many of the other stewards really know the all various rules so every time something happens there is probably a flurry of stewards looking up the exact wording of various sections and trying to remember precedents.
We all know, or should, how convoluted the rules are and the number of grey areas.
The section pretaining to F1 is probably thicker now than the entire book was 40 years ago. Not only will you have general racing rules in one section, there will be F1 specific rules in another and the FIA keep adding or supposedly clarifying rules, sometimes in mid season. Occasionally these so called clarifications will actually contradict another section of the rules, but maybe not the F1 specific rules.
The whole book probably needs a complete rewrite and thinning out but just who is going to do it? The last person(s) you want is a lawyer but one or more would have to vet the new version. A massive undertaking.
Remember I am not referring to just F1, although that would be a good start.
By the way my previous post on this specifically did not refer to any one incident as some posters seem to believe.

[ArrowsFA1]

The ex driver is a full steward and has the same power as the other 3 but no more.
I thought the ex-drivers are there in an advisory capacity only and do not have any say in what penalties, if any, should be imposed.

[52Paddy]

I thought the ex-drivers are there in an advisory capacity only and do not have any say in what penalties, if any, should be imposed.

Ditto. But, I've heard commentators mention stuff akin to: "Well, Frentzen will have a tough decision to make on this situation..." etc

So, does that, in effect, mean he does have a say? I'll wait for a source before I make any judgement on the ex-drivers say.

By the way, that commentator was probably Leggard so best taken with a pinch of very strong salt :p :

[ioan]

Ditto. But, I've heard commentators mention stuff akin to: "Well, Frentzen will have a tough decision to make on this situation..." etc

So, does that, in effect, mean he does have a say? I'll wait for a source before I make any judgement on the ex-drivers say.

By the way, that commentator was probably Leggard so best taken with a pinch of very strong salt :p :

It just means that either the commentators are plain stupid or they are trying hard to stir the $h!t!
In both cases their are crappy.

[P3ws]

I dont know if i get this whole thing right but....

IF you pass the SC then you would be a lap ahead of the pack, and when SC dives into pits the blue flags would be waved for the the cars in front of you.

I think maybe i am stupid, but i could live with a 5 sec penalty in that case.
:confused:

[wmcot]

The problem with a 5 second penalty is that it's not much of a deterrent in the future. Now we'll see all the drivers zipping back to the pits at full speed when the SC is deployed, knowing that they will save more than 5 seconds by heading at full speed to the pits (unless they run int the accident or debris along the way like FA in Brazil 2003!)

Once again it's a case of the FIA having rules but without specific penalties. They should be something like:

Passing the safety car - 10 sec stop and go or 30 sec added (if late in the race)
Speeding under SC - drive through penalty or 20 sec added (if late in the race)
SC at the end of a race - drivers will finish under the SC if there are less than 2 laps left in the race.

The FIA has a ton of rules, but no specific penalties. What if the stewards DQ'd LH for passing the safety car? I bet we'd hear a lot about that!

One other question - why did the safety car pick up the 3rd placed car and not the race leader? Maybe we need to go back to having the pits closed until the cars are all behind the SC. It's not like they are going to run out of fuel and must pit anymore!

[CNR]

What if the stewards DQ'd LH for passing the safety car? I bet we'd hear a lot about that!

Q:Why is this a different rule to leaving pit lane in front of the safty car ?
the safty car boards would have been out

[wmcot]

Q:Why is this a different rule to leaving pit lane in front of the safty car ?
the safty car boards would have been out

And the pre-determined penalty for that is...? Exactly!

[CNR]

And the pre-determined penalty for that is...? Exactly!

2007 Canadian Grand Prix Felipe Massa disqualified exited pits through red light
Montoya was disqualified after being sent out under a red light in the pit lane

i think the fact that lewis hesitated to overtake the safety car he know it was there

[Mia 01]

The problem with a 5 second penalty is that it's not much of a deterrent in the future. Now we'll see all the drivers zipping back to the pits at full speed when the SC is deployed, knowing that they will save more than 5 seconds by heading at full speed to the pits (unless they run int the accident or debris along the way like FA in Brazil 2003!)

Once again it's a case of the FIA having rules but without specific penalties. They should be something like:

Passing the safety car - 10 sec stop and go or 30 sec added (if late in the race)
Speeding under SC - drive through penalty or 20 sec added (if late in the race)
SC at the end of a race - drivers will finish under the SC if there are less than 2 laps left in the race.

The FIA has a ton of rules, but no specific penalties. What if the stewards DQ'd LH for passing the safety car? I bet we'd hear a lot about that!

One other question - why did the safety car pick up the 3rd placed car and not the race leader? Maybe we need to go back to having the pits closed until the cars are all behind the SC. It's not like they are going to run out of fuel and must pit anymore!

This post makes sence.

[ArrowsFA1]

i think the fact that lewis hesitated to overtake the safety car he know it was there
I don't think there's any doubt whatsoever that Hamilton knew the SC was there. What he wasn't sure of was whether he was ahead or behind it when it was exiting the pit lane.

Apparently the timing transponder is in the boot of the SC, whereas it's at the front of the F1 cars and, according to the timing data, the McLaren and the SC crossed the line at the same time.

Had the SC been approaching turn 2 then the situation would have been clear and Hamilton would not have passed the SC. Had the SC picked up the leader, and not come out behind Vettel, then there would not have been an issue.

As it is we're talking about fine margins, and split seconds which is fertile ground for all sorts of theories, but the fact is Hamilton was penalised for passing the SC.

IIRC it was Schumacher taking his stop-go penalty on the last lap of the British GP many years ago, and winning the race as a result, that led to time penalties being introduced at the end of races. Perhaps the issues of the SC and the timing of penalties in Valencia will lead to the FIA making further changes to prevent this kind of thing happening again. I hope so.

[markabilly]

Charlie Whiting is not a steward. He does not make the decision to involve them. He is responsible for the running of the race. Rule infractions are the stewards responsibility.
Yes he has made mistakes but has any one a suggestion as to who his replacement should be?
Barnhardt from IC? Yeah right!!!!!!
A permanent body of stewards would be a good idea. Right now you get a different group every race. Many have no racing experience whatsoever. That was the main reason that there is now a former driver there to advise them and he does have a vote and is a steward. However, we have often seen how various drivers see a situation differently and I do not mean those actually involved.
However most drivers, both current and former, do not know the rulebook so they are there mainly to try a give a driver's viewpoint of an incident.
Again I doubt many of the other stewards really know the all various rules so every time something happens there is probably a flurry of stewards looking up the exact wording of various sections and trying to remember precedents.
We all know, or should, how convoluted the rules are and the number of grey areas.
The section pretaining to F1 is probably thicker now than the entire book was 40 years ago. Not only will you have general racing rules in one section, there will be F1 specific rules in another and the FIA keep adding or supposedly clarifying rules, sometimes in mid season. Occasionally these so called clarifications will actually contradict another section of the rules, but maybe not the F1 specific rules.
The whole book probably needs a complete rewrite and thinning out but just who is going to do it? The last person(s) you want is a lawyer but one or more would have to vet the new version. A massive undertaking.
Remember I am not referring to just F1, although that would be a good start.
By the way my previous post on this specifically did not refer to any one incident as some posters seem to believe.


I understand your position, and perhaps blaming him is like labelling someone in the back of the pack, a slow moving imcompetent chicane when he is driving a lotus, and not a maclaren...nevertheless, to avoid repeating my self....


When the SC is coming on the track, the rule should be that cars should slow to permit the SC to get in front.

it should not have come down to inches, as it was more than close enough at the moment it occurred, even if it later turned out he beat the car to the line, and LH should have been told to slow and get behind the SC immediately


No need to get out microscopes and do a slow motion....indeed, if they wanted to be absoultely certain, they should carefully examine in in-car data, and the radio traffic, and all sorts of stuff. As stated in the article, the transponders immediately showed they crossed at the same time, so that should have been enough, but oh no, the transponder in the SC is in the back and not the front????.

Why should that not matter???

The whole idea of the Safety car is safety, not gaining race advantages on technicalities and so forth......Flavio is NOT the example to be followed.

And a penalty should be a penalty that results in a real loss, that at a minimum, puts the situation back to a point that it would be if the rule had not been transgressed-in other words, the advantage gained is taken away.

it should not be some meaningless gesture which turns the whole thing into a joke


(another example is the $10k penalty for running out of gas to get pole is a joke--as every team on the grid would probably pay an extra 50k or more if it got them a pole, another is the 5 second penalty in this race and so on).


:vader:


Time to fix the problems. Two reasons for penalties is first to take away the advantage gained and the second is to make the penalty even worse in addition to taking away the advantage, and that is to make it clear future transgressions will not be tolerated

OTOH, if they did fix the problems, then the races would really be boring.....after all what would we all talk about......not much after this race, except when Webber gave Red Bull wings....

[steveaki13]

I dont know if i get this whole thing right but....

IF you pass the SC then you would be a lap ahead of the pack, and when SC dives into pits the blue flags would be waved for the the cars in front of you.

I think maybe i am stupid, but i could live with a 5 sec penalty in that case.
:confused:


Interesting thought actually.

Anyone know if this could happen?
If you are the 1st and only car to pass the SC and virtually lap the field and only get a small penalty you could still win the race by a minute or so.

Would they exclude you otherwise someone might try it.

[penagate]

Interesting thought actually.

Anyone know if this could happen?

No. After the queue is formed the cars are waved past the SC until the race leader is at the head of the queue. The cars which pass then join the back of the queue.

[steveaki13]

No. After the queue is formed the cars are waved past the SC until the race leader is at the head of the queue. The cars which pass then join the back of the queue.

Of course.

Cheers I had a moment of brain fade there.

[wmcot]

Interesting thought actually.

Anyone know if this could happen?
If you are the 1st and only car to pass the SC and virtually lap the field and only get a small penalty you could still win the race by a minute or so.

Would they exclude you otherwise someone might try it.

This situation is very similar to the problem that had to be fixed in the ALMS series. Of course there you have 4 classes racing at the same time. The problem was that the SC would pick up the overall leader and wave everyone else by. Here at MMP last year, the GT2 leader was on track in front of the P1 (overall) leader so he was waved by. 2nd and 3rd in GT2 were behind the P1 leader and were not waved by, putting them a lap down. Now the SC picks up the first leader of any class and things are much better.

In F1, the SC must pick up the overall leader to maintain order and prevent anyone gaining an advantage.

Considering how thick the F1 rule book is, there sure seem to be a lot of , "gee, we never thought of that" moments happening this year. :(

[wmcot]

No. After the queue is formed the cars are waved past the SC until the race leader is at the head of the queue. The cars which pass then join the back of the queue.

Except when the SC picks up the 3rd place car allowing 1st and 2nd to zip away around the track and dive into the pits.

[wmcot]

Of course.

Cheers I had a moment of brain fade there.

Well...that's the theory, but at Valencia it seems the FIA officials were the ones having the "brain fade."

[SGWilko]

Except when the SC picks up the 3rd place car allowing 1st and 2nd to zip away around the track and dive into the pits.

Only issue in the Valencia scenario is that, due to the nature of Webber's accident, the SC was sent out IMMEDIATELY, and rightfully, given how bad an accident it could have been, no thought needed to be given about picking up the leader etc as the only concern was getting the SC on track quickly.

Unfortunate circumstance, which got the better of Lewis and the FIA.

At the end of the day, I wont lie to you, I am just glad no-one was badly hurt and that Webber and Heikki walked away.

[wmcot]

Only issue in the Valencia scenario is that, due to the nature of Webber's accident, the SC was sent out IMMEDIATELY, and rightfully, given how bad an accident it could have been, no thought needed to be given about picking up the leader etc as the only concern was getting the SC on track quickly.


Agreed, but that could be solved with a second safety car half way round the circuit or a rule requiring any car ahead of the safety car to drop back behind it. Simpler and safer.

BTW - A second medical car wouldn't be a bad idea either.

Totally agree with you on MW and HK being safe and uninjured. That's the priority!

[Mia 01]

Charlie and the Stewards don´t have an easy job.

But, a penalty should be that, with three reprimands in his bag, next time black flag him.

[AndyL]

Agreed, but that could be solved with a second safety car half way round the circuit or a rule requiring any car ahead of the safety car to drop back behind it. Simpler and safer.

They use 2 safety cars at Le Mans (and have used more in the past) and it's not a perfect solution. The cars behind the second safety car lose out massively to the cars lucky enough to get into the leading group. Even more so if the release of both groups from behind the safety car is not properly synchronised, which has happened. That's only a minor issue in a 24 hour race that's usually won by several laps, but in F1 it would obviously be much more significant.

Telling the leader to allow the safety car to pass seems like a good solution though, I'd vote for that.

[Tazio]

I'm all for bashing "The Boss" However somehow I find that the new fuel regs play right into his game!( it does bring his balls down below thr Kimi line) He is forced to not do anything rash untill he changes tyres.
Then all bets are off :dozey:
The enlarging of his balls is directly proprtional to the shrinking of his brain! :s mokin: :laugh: :arrowed: