Nationwide - New England 200

[DanicaFan]

Well, I will be watching another Nationwide race this year. Danica returns for this weekend's New England 200 at New Hampshire Motor Speedway (Loudon). Im kind of excited to see how she does. Here are some details for the race..

Practice - Friday, June 25th - 10:30am & 1:30pm Eastern
Qualifying - Saturday, June 26th - 10:30am Eastern
Race - Saturday, June 26th - 2:30pm Eastern - ESPN

[harvick#1]

dont expect anything higher than 35th.


I for one will be not watching this race, THANK GOD, I dont have to hear Rusty gag over her nor do we have to have to deal with hearing the Danica update on DSPN.

[DanicaFan]

Here is the current entry list for the race...


1. #01 Mike Wallace
2. #05 Willie Allen
3. #6 Ricky Stenhouse Jr.
4. #7 Danica Patrick
5. #09 Sean Caisse
6. #10 Tayler Malsam
7. #11 Brian Scott
8. #12 Justin Allgaier
9. #15 Michael Annett
10. #16 Colin Braun
11. #18 Kyle Busch
12. #20 Joey Logano
13. #21 Austin Dillon
14. #22 Brad Keselowski
15. #23 Robert Richardson Jr.
16. #24 Eric McClure
17. #25 Peyton Sellers
18. #26 Brian Keselowski
19. #27 Justin Lofton
20. #28 Kenny Wallace
21. #32 Reed Sorenson
22. #33 Kevin Harvick
23. #34 Tony Raines
24. #35 Jason Keller
25. #37 TBA
26. #38 Jason Leffler
27. #39 Charles Lewandoski
28. #40 Mike Bliss
29. #43 Brad Baker
30. #60 Carl Edwards
31. #61 Josh Wise
32. #62 Brendan Gaughan
33. #66 Steve Wallace
34. #70 Mark Green
35. #81 Michael McDowell
36. #87 Joe Nemechek
37. #88 Elliott Sadler
38. #89 Morgan Shepherd
39. #90 Danny O'Quinn Jr.
40. #91 David Gilliland
41. #92 Dennis Setzer
42. #98 Paul Menard
43. #99 Trevor Bayne

[00steven]

I predict a 31st out of Danica and a win for Kyle!

[Mark in Oshawa]

Hard to say. She might make it up into the 20's if she figures it out...or rather...Tony Jr. figures it out for her and she stops complaining long enough to figure out what he did helped her...

By the end of this year, he will be wishing he stayed on the pit box for the 88 and his Cousin!!!

[Lee Roy]

Im kind of excited to see how she does.

Here's how she did in the first practice:


NNS: Patrick Slow In Practice
Danica Patrick was 43rd in the first round of practice...

http://nascar.speedtv.com/article/nns-patrick-slow-in-practice/

[harvick#1]

anywhere to go but uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu, the same :p : wow, great job so far Danica in top 5 machinery.

but oh wait "Its not her fault!!!!!"

[harvick#1]

Vegas odds....

Danica Patrick

10 to 1: qualifies in the top 20
1 to 1: qualifies 20th or worse
28 to 1: finishes on the lead lap
20 to 1: caught up in accident
12 to 1: causes accident
100 to 1: blames it on someone else
60 to 1: blames something on the crew
1 to 1: finishes 30th or worse
5 to 1: finishes 20th or better
1000 to 1: top 20 finish
100 to 1: she want's to kick someone's butt
100 to 1: she want's to cool down before she talks to media
trillion to 1: win

[TURN3]

Just looked at the time sheets from practice 1 and laughed so hard my sunflower seeds came out my nose!

[DanicaFan]

Results from Practice Session 1..

Rank / Car # & Driver / Speed / Lap Time

1. #22 Brad Keselowski / 128.018 / 29.75
2. #33 Kevin Harvick / 127.825 / 29.80
3. #98 Paul Menard / 127.308 / 29.92
4. #91 David Gilliland / 127.244 / 29.93
5. #66 Steve Wallace / 126.930 / 30.01
6. #60 Carl Edwards / 126.808 / 30.04
7. #20 Joey Logano / 126.740 / 30.05
8. #27 Justin Lofton / 126.576 / 30.09
9. #12 Justin Allgaier / 126.568 / 30.09
10. #18 Kyle Busch / 126.530 / 30.10
11. #21 Austin Dillon / 126.458 / 30.12
12. #32 Reed Sorenson / 126.425 / 30.13
13. #26 Brian Keselowski / 126.282 / 30.16
14. #70 Mark Green / 126.220 / 30.18
15. #81 Michael McDowell / 126.215 / 30.18
16. #62 Brendan Gaughan / 125.961 / 30.24
17. #99 Trevor Bayne / 125.932 / 30.24
18. #38 Jason Leffler / 125.915 / 30.25
19. #92 Dennis Setzer / 125.828 / 30.27
20. #16 Colin Braun / 125.749 / 30.29
21. #89 Morgan Shepherd / 125.645 / 30.31
22. #34 Tony Raines / 125.608 / 30.32
23. #35 Jason Keller / 125.533 / 30.34
24. #88 Elliott Sadler / 125.492 / 30.35
25. #09 Sean Caisse / 125.471 / 30.36
26. #90 Danny O'Quinn / 125.405 / 30.37
27. #75 Johnny Chapman / 125.343 / 30.39
28. #40 Mike Bliss / 124.944 / 30.48
29. #87 Joe Nemechek / 124.875 / 30.50
30. #6 Ricky Stenhouse Jr. / 124.813 / 30.52
31. #28 Kenny Wallace / 124.736 / 30.54
32. #15 Michael Annett / 124.638 / 30.56
33. #61 Josh Wise / 124.345 / 30.63
34. #11 Brian Scott / 124.207 / 30.66
35. #10 Tayler Malsam / 123.719 / 30.79
36. #25 Peyton Sellers / 123.630 / 30.81
37. #23 Robert Richardson Jr. / 123.358 /30.88
38. #05 Willie Allen / 122.892 / 30.99
39. #24 Eric McClure / 122.789 / 31.02
40. #01 Mike Wallace / 122.698 / 31.04
41. #52 Chris Lawson / 122.501 / 31.09
42. #39 Charles Lewandoski / 122.269 / 31.15
43. #7 Danica Patrick / 121.967 / 31.23
44. #43 Brad Baker / 118.495 / 32.14

[Lee Roy]

What I found most interesting is that DP ran more laps during practice than any other driver. 35 in total.

Better luck to her in the second practice.

[DanicaFan]

Danica was real good that 2nd practice. She found some speed. Here are the results of Practice Session 2..

Rank / Car# & Driver / Speed / Lap Time

1. #33 Kevin Harvick / 128.998 / 29.53
2. #27 Justin Loftin / 128.780 / 29.58
3. #98 Paul Menard / 128.567 / 29.62
4. #99 Trevor Bayne / 128.528 / 29.63
5. #32 Reed Sorenson / 128.459 / 29.65
6. #60 Carl Edwards / 128.385 / 29.67
7. #88 Elliott Sadler / 127.786 / 29.81
8. #12 Justin Allgaier / 127.589 / 29.85
9. #66 Steve Wallace / 127.372 / 29.90
10. #6 Ricky Stenhouse Jr. / 127.304 / 29.92
11. #40 Mike Bliss / 127.189 / 29.95
12. #28 Jason Leffler / 127.125 / 29.96
13. #21 Austin Dillon / 126.998 / 29.99
14. #16 Colin Braun / 126.960 / 30.00
15. #22 Brad Keselowski / 126.939 / 30.00
16. #18 Kyle Busch / 126.723 / 30.06
17. #09 Sean Caisse / 126.349 / 30.14
18. #20 Joey Logano / 126.324 / 30.15
19. #90 Danny O'Quinn / 126.232 / 30.17
20. #35 Jason Keller / 126.023 / 30.22
21. #87 Joe Nemechek / 125.558 / 30.34
22. #81 Michael McDowell / 125.550 / 30.34
23. #89 Morgan Shepherd / 125.380 / 30.38
24. #7 Danica Patrick / 125.368 / 30.38
25. #62 Brendan Gaughan / 125.331 / 30.39
26. #34 Tony Raines / 125.121 / 30.44
27. #11 Brian Scott / 124.597 / 30.57
28. #37 Kevin Swindell / 124.544 / 30.58
29. #15 Michael Annett / 124.519 / 30.59
30. #61 Josh Wise / 124.422 / 30.61
31. #70 Mark Green / 124.349 / 30.63
32. #75 Johnny Chapman / 124.304 / 30.64
33. #25 Peyton Sellers / 124.138 / 30.68
34. #28 Kenny Wallace / 124.130 / 30.68
35. #05 Willie Allen / 123.976 / 30.72
36. #10 Tayler Malsam / 123.642 / 30.80
37. #39 Charles Lewandoski / 123.390 / 30.87
38. #23 Robert Richardson Jr. / 122.829 / 31.01
39. #01 Mike Wallace / 122.552 / 31.08
40. #24 Eric McClure / 122.509 / 31.09
41. #52 Chris Lawson / 122.363 / 31.13

[Lee Roy]

Much much better.

[Mark in Oshawa]

24th is alright... She maybe is going to figure it out...or at least did this afternoon....

[TURN3]

Not to burst anybody's bubble here but the times from Nationwide session 2 rarely have any validity. Most of the teams, if not all, limits their tire usage as most of you full-time NASCAR fans will know. If she qualifys in the top 25 it will still be a huge surprise...don't get too far ahead of ourselves here...she still sucks.

[Lee Roy]

Wow. You really have a "thing" for her, don't you.

[harvick#1]

Not to burst anybody's bubble here but the times from Nationwide session 2 rarely have any validity.

Practice 2 was speeds were all Qualifying trim in the final minutes usually just to see what they have for well, Qualifying.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I wont knock her for getting a 24th...but it is practice...so it is what it is...

[TURN3]

Wow. You really have a "thing" for her, don't you.

Yep, its called reality! lol

[00steven]

OMG! Danica's 24th!

[slorydn1]

5 to 1: finishes 20th or better
1000 to 1: top 20 finish


Ummmmmm....isn't this the same thing? 20th or better IS a top 20 finish <smack>

Sorry Harv, I needed a laugh, I just couldn't let that slide :beer: :D

[00steven]

I hope you picked up the sarcasm.

[harvick#1]

Ummmmmm....isn't this the same thing? 20th or better IS a top 20 finish <smack>

Sorry Harv, I needed a laugh, I just couldn't let that slide :beer: :D

I dunno, I copied and pasted it from another site :p : :beer:

[slorydn1]

I dunno, I copied and pasted it from another site :p : :beer:

:rotflmao:


OMG!!!! Not another graduate of the Danica Patrick finishing school!!!!!

"It's not my fault!" LOL :p :

[slorydn1]

I hope you picked up the sarcasm.

Uhhhhhhhhh, yeah :rolleyes: Did you? :?:

[slorydn1]

I hope you picked up the sarcasm.


Uhhhhhhhh, yeah, did you? :rolleyes:

Hey Harv, 'splain it to him :beer:

[harvick#1]

"It's not my fault!" LOL :p :

damn right!!!!!!!! :D

[harvick#1]

Hey Harv, 'splain it to him :beer:

I can't he is a Danica fan in heart, I've been in the IRL boards :p :

[TURN3]

Here is a famous quote..."ummmm.....ummmmm....ummmmm.....ummmm....ummmmm.... ..ummmm.....ummmm". Who is it from?

[00steven]

I am not a Danica fan at all!!! In fact I can't stand her! She doesn't even know the English language (UM you Know). I just try to go easy on her.

[DanicaFan]

Danica is 25th. I'll take it. Hoping for better but it could be worse. Here is the starting lineup..

1. #12 Brad Keselowski
2. #60 Carl Edwards
3. #33 Kevin Harvick
4. #18 Kyle Busch
5. #12 Justin Allgaier
6. #66 Steve Wallace
7. #20 Joey Logano
8. #21 Austin Dillon
9. #27 Justin Lofton
10. #6 Ricky Stenhouse Jr.
11. #81 Michael McDowell
12. #32 Reed Sorenson
13. #35 Jason Keller
14. #38 Jason Leffler
15. #16 Colin Braun
16. #62 Brendan Gaughan
17. #88 Elliott Sadler
18. #99 Trevor Bayne
19. #98 Paul Menard
20. #37 Kevin Swindell
21. #40 Mike Bliss
22. #10 Travis Malsam
23. #91 David Gilliland
24. #87 Joe Nemechek
25. #7 Danica Patrick
26. #70 Mark Green
27. #11 Brian Scott
28. #09 Sean Caisse
29. #90 Danny O'Quinn Jr.
30. #61 Josh Wise
31. #28 Kenny Wallace
32. #34 Tony Raines
33. #89 Morgan Shepherd
34. #05 Willie Allen
35. #92 Dennis Setzer
36. #26 Brian Keselowski
37. #01 Mike Wallace
38. #15 Michael Annett
39. #25 Peyton Sellers
40. #24 Eric McClure
41. #23 Robert Richardson Jr.
42. #43 Brad Baker
43. #75 Johnny Chapman

[Mark in Oshawa]

25th in qualifying. The Charlotte phone book is full of guys who can qualify 25th for a NW race. Lets see how she does.

IN no other form of racing is qualifying really so meaningless...but I give her props, it looks like she found some speed..

Maybe that finish at Indy and fighting there with her team made her rethink what her comfort zone is. 90% of our criticism of her driving always comes back to her pereceptions and lack of ability to tune the car to go fast.....but if she let the Eury's put a fast car under her and adapts, then maybe she will do ok.

I am always ready to be proven wrong, but in Danica's case, Iam from Missouri...

[TURN3]

That was quick! LOL.

And even complete with the usual radio transmission..."he took me out" which equats to "it's not my fault".

[slorydn1]

That was quick! LOL.

And even complete with the usual radio transmission..."he took me out" which equats to "it's not my fault".

for once, i agree with her

[TURN3]

for once, i agree with her

Well I'm not saying it was her fault by any means. But when you're dropping like a rock that was already 5/6 to the bottom, you're a rookie, you're racing for 32nd place, and you suck...you certainly give a driver putting a move on you some room. In her case, she only knows one line so if somebody gets under her she doesn't know or isn't capable of adjusting...and that's what ultimately happened there. DJ is on her left nipple but the other guy called it the right way...not her fault but you have to know how to stay out of putting another driver in that position.

And as I type this, she did the exact same thing to Kiglogski lapping her. She just shouldn't be in any top level series...she's amateur level at best.

[slorydn1]

Well I'm not saying it was her fault by any means. But when you're dropping like a rock that was already 5/6 to the bottom, you're a rookie, you're racing for 32nd place, and you suck...you certainly give a driver putting a move on you some room. In her case, she only knows one line so if somebody gets under her she doesn't know or isn't capable of adjusting...and that's what ultimately happened there. DJ is on her left nipple but the other guy called it the right way...not her fault but you have to know how to stay out of putting another driver in that position.

And as I type this, she did the exact same thing to Kiglogski lapping her. She just shouldn't be in any top level series...she's amateur level at best.

no argument here :up:

[Jag_Warrior]

I always liked DJ... before he started slupring down the Kool-Aid today. Two laps down by about lap 30, getting passed high & low, last place of the cars still running and DJ says she's "doing a nice job." :rolleyes:

[Jag_Warrior]

I'm bouncing between the Nationwide race and F1 qualifying on DVR, so I'm a bit out of sync. But 3 laps down by lap 65 or 66???!!! Why didn't we play an over/under game with this race? We could have had some fun betting how many laps down she was going to be by the checkers. At this rate, it looks like maybe 9. :eek:

These long green flag runs and the lack of cautions is killing the typical Danica strategy of sneaking up through the field (purely) on pit strategy.

[beachbum]

Well I'm not saying it was her fault by any means. But when you're dropping like a rock that was already 5/6 to the bottom, you're a rookie, you're racing for 32nd place, and you suck...you certainly give a driver putting a move on you some room. In her case, she only knows one line so if somebody gets under her she doesn't know or isn't capable of adjusting...and that's what ultimately happened there. DJ is on her left nipple but the other guy called it the right way...not her fault but you have to know how to stay out of putting another driver in that position.

And as I type this, she did the exact same thing to Kiglogski lapping her. She just shouldn't be in any top level series...she's amateur level at best.You make an important point. She drives like she is the only one on track and makes no allowance for others. Morgan Shepard is probably one the cleanest drivers on track. After the many - many - many replays, it certainly appears he didn't change his line. She just didn't give him ANY room. I can see Shepard now when / if the princess confronts him - "I will pray for you"

BUT, she is still dropping like a stone and is last on track. Sure someone will say the car is "hurt", but it isn't THAT bad. If the toe is knocked out (probably is based on one in car shot), the team could reset it. It isn't like she is going to lose any positions. Either they don't think the car is that bad or they just don't care. From the in-car, she certainly has a big push.

But please ESPN, STOP IT. I mostly have the coverage on mute, but couldn't take it anymore when they spent one whole segment between ads (all 5 min or so) on Danica - 3 laps down. It did show she was driving a car width from the wall, still taking her "line" regardless of who was behind her, and REALLY slow into the turns. Every driver was giving her lots of room and some even went to the apron to pass.

She is an embarrassment to professional racers everywhere. As someone else said, she looks like Milka out there, except for the hand puppet show.

I gave up and decided to watch real female athletes - I switched to the LPGA for a while.

[beachbum]

I'm bouncing between the Nationwide race and F1 qualifying on DVR, so I'm a bit out of sync. But 3 laps down by lap 65 or 66???!!! Why didn't we play an over/under game with this race? We could have had some fun betting how many laps down she was going to be by the checkers. At this rate, it looks like maybe 9. :eek:

These long green flag runs and the lack of cautions is killing the typical Danica strategy of sneaking up through the field (purely) on pit strategy.Well, she was the first caution.

[slorydn1]

I keep ranting that they don't need to take away a date from NHIS, and I keep forgetting how boring the races are there. Its better than it was pre 2003, but its impossible to pass, and lappers are ridiculous here. By far the most boring race of the year.....

the next time I start to say keep racing at Loudon I want y'all to tell me to shut up-QUICK :s nore:

[TURN3]

"ummmmm.....ummmm....ummmm....ummmmm....ummmmm....u mmmmm"

[TURN3]

OMG! Did they actually just do a comparison of DP with Tony, Juan, and Dario!!!!? ESPN give me a friggin' break!! Is that supposed to be a joke?

That is about like doing a comparison of O.J. Simpson to Mother Theresa.

[slorydn1]

OMG! Did they actually just do a comparison of DP with Tony, Juan, and Dario!!!!? ESPN give me a friggin' break!! Is that supposed to be a joke?

That is about like doing a comparison of O.J. Simpson to Mother Theresa.

:rotflmao:

[DanicaFan]

Congrats to Kyle Busch for his win and setting a couple records of a 2-time winner at New Hampshire and the most laps led in the Nationwide Series. Danica ran solid despite her finish. It's a shame Morgan Shepherd took her out early forcing her to go a lap down quickly but she did ok after that.

Here are the final results...

1. #18 Kyle Busch
2. #22 Brad Keselowski
3. #60 Carl Edwards
4. #20 Joey Logano
5. #99 Trevor Bayne
6. #12 Justin Allgaier
7. #33 Kevin Harvick
8. #32 Reed Sorenson
9. #98 Paul Menard
10. #62 Brendan Gaughan
11. #66 Steve Wallace
12. #16 Colin Braun
13. #88 Elliott Sadler
14. #38 Jason Leffler
15. #35 Jason Keller
16. #6 Ricky Stenhouse Jr.
17. #27 Justin Lofton
18. #34 Tony Raines
19. #15 Michael Annett
20. #81 Michael McDowell
21. #09 Sean Caisse
22. #89 Morgan Shepherd
23. #87 Joe Nemechek
24. #05 Willie Allen
25. #21 Austin Dillon
26. #11 Brian Scott
27. #23 Robert Richardson Jr.
28. #01 Mike Wallace
29. #24 Eric McClure
30. #7 Danica Patrick
31. #39 Charles Lewandoski
32. #28 Kenny Wallace
33. #70 Mark Green
34. #40 Mike Bliss
35. #10 Tayler Malsam
36. #43 Brad Baker
37. #90 Danny O'Quinn
38. #91 David Gilliland
39. #26 Brian Keselowski
40. #75 Johnny Chapman
41. #61 Josh Wise
42. #37 Kevin Swindell
43. #92 Dennis Setzer

[beachbum]

Congrats to Kyle Busch for his win and setting a couple records of a 2-time winner at New Hampshire and the most laps led in the Nationwide Series. Danica ran solid despite her finish. It's a shame Morgan Shepherd took her out early forcing her to go a lap down quickly but she did ok after that.I know you think Danica is great and we do appreciate a lot of the information you post about racing in general, but is losing 4 more laps "ok"? Running last on track most of the race and finishing next to last of the runners is "ok"? Um, ya know, that just isn't very good. In fact, it is dismal.

Morgan Shepard didn't take her out, she just didn't give any racing room. Funny, he only ended 2 laps down.

[TURN3]

First of all, read previous posts before casting blame on a guy who has been in NASCAR longer than Danica has been alive.

Secondly, she did solid? You could be a millionaire selling whatever it is you smoke. She was the most GOD AWFUL car out there, lapped 5 times....count 'em 5! And if the race was 6 laps longer it would've been 6. Sorry DanicaFan, no matter how you try to glimmer sunshine off of a piece of sheot...it's still a piece of sheot. She's hideous and after 4 races and several test sessions in Nationwide, she's proven exactly what she has in Indycar, Atlantics, Barber, FF, etc...she sucks.

[Jag_Warrior]

Congrats to Kyle Busch for his win and setting a couple records of a 2-time winner at New Hampshire and the most laps led in the Nationwide Series. Danica ran solid despite her finish. It's a shame Morgan Shepherd took her out early forcing her to go a lap down quickly but she did ok after that.



Yeah... she only lost 4 more laps after that. And she did manage not to be the last place car still running. Only second to last, right? :D

As much as I enjoy making fun of Danica, if she's going to continue being THIS bad, it's not as much fun. But if the ESPN guys keep making excuses for her, I guess I'll have to keep hammering her. 5 laps down by the end and they managed to make it sound like she was in the hunt.

Let's be honest here. Juan Montoya had never sat in a stock car before he started in NASCAR either. But if he'd finished a race 5 laps down, do you think anybody at ESPN would have said that he was actually "doing a nice job"??? Really?

As for her spin tearing up her car to the point that she couldn't do any better, good luck to the ESPN boys in selling that. I've seen F1 cars take harder hits than that and go on to win the race. That was barely a light tap. I'll go back and look again, but I don't recall that any part of her car was hit hard enough to do any major damage... was it? If I missed something, please clue me in. But I didn't see anything.

[harvick#1]

I saw the recap of the race on espn. And of course, Danica places all blame on Morgan for the racing accident. An accident that normally happens when the driver on the bottom gets pinched and runs up the wall.

Look at it this way. Danica got her career best finish so far :p :

I laughed too when Danica asked if he would be blacked flagged for the wreck. Quit chokin your word Danica because she shouldve been flagged in the URL race at Texas when she ran TK into the inside wall

glad I missed the race, the nationwide series has been piss poor this season

[Easy Drifter]

I saw very little of it. I was watching the G20 protests/riots in Toronto and it seemed almost every time I switched to the race it was a commercial.

[Jag_Warrior]

I laughed too when Danica asked if he would be blacked flagged for the wreck.

:eek: My gosh, she's even more clueless than I suspected. She REALLY asked that???!!! :rotflmao: WTF is she going to do at Bristol when they're knocking her out of the way two and three times a lap? If they'd thrown a black flag for that love tap, there'd be a riot among NASCAR fans... and rightly so!

But remember folks, this is the same (delusional) person who just a year or so back wondered whether or not she wanted to go to F1 or NASCAR Sprint Cup (straight away). :rolleyes: Other than the USF1 fantasy team, no F1 team would let her do anything but hold a banner in front of a car on the grid. Considering how bad she is on IRL road courses now, I'm not sure if even ART Grand Prix, using a fulltime driver coach, could get her in the top 10 in GP2. F1?! Really? What does she smoke or snort???!!! Not only is The Danica showing that she's not ready for Sprint Cup, she's not even ready for Nationwide! She's BARELY ready for ARCA... and that's only in an ARCA car that's got a budget bigger than probably half the Nationwide field.

[TURN3]

:eek: My gosh, she's even more clueless than I suspected. She REALLY asked that???!!! :rotflmao:

Yes, she did. She's becoming even a bigger joke than her own hype. I mean really, who does she think she is? And to boot, the accident (while not directly her fault) is something SHE was responsible for avoiding. Find me a single NASCAR fan that hasn't called it like it was. Meanwhile, she's bumping Morgan coming back to green and in the pits after the race like somebody just stole the Indy 500 from her. The woman is a blantant ummmmm idiot.

[beachgirl]

Danica Patrick = the Milka Duno of Nationwide. And a clueless bit** to boot.

[markabilly]

Sweet little DP does a nascar race, spins, and finishes way way back there, and all I hear is about her, and all i see on the net, is about her....and all i find on the forum is about her....

Just wondering, did anybody else show up for the race????????
Who were these no-name whoevers she was racing against?????

[beachgirl]

Sweet little DP does a nascar race, spins, and finishes way way back there, and all I hear is about her, and all i see on the net, is about her....and all i find on the forum is about her....

Just wondering, did anybody else show up for the race????????
Who were these no-name whoevers she was racing against?????

See Post #44 above.

[Sparky1329]

:eek: My gosh, she's even more clueless than I suspected. She REALLY asked that???!!! :rotflmao: WTF is she going to do at Bristol when they're knocking her out of the way two and three times a lap? If they'd thrown a black flag for that love tap, there'd be a riot among NASCAR fans... and rightly so!

But remember folks, this is the same (delusional) person who just a year or so back wondered whether or not she wanted to go to F1 or NASCAR Sprint Cup (straight away). :rolleyes: Other than the USF1 fantasy team, no F1 team would let her do anything but hold a banner in front of a car on the grid. Considering how bad she is on IRL road courses now, I'm not sure if even ART Grand Prix, using a fulltime driver coach, could get her in the top 10 in GP2. F1?! Really? What does she smoke or snort???!!! Not only is The Danica showing that she's not ready for Sprint Cup, she's not even ready for Nationwide! She's BARELY ready for ARCA... and that's only in an ARCA car that's got a budget bigger than probably half the Nationwide field.

OMG! They aren't really going to let her race at Bristol, are they? :eek:

She is an arrogant idiot who thinks she's the only driver on the track. I was hoping the #6 car would bump her out of the way when she was holding him up. She has her line and stays in it regardless. I wouldn't pay her to race a bicycle.

[wbcobrar]

I hate to say this , but lil' shrub is just amazing to watch in a Nationwide car . If someone would just bolt his mouth shut I'd be his biggest fan .

[Jag_Warrior]

OMG! They aren't really going to let her race at Bristol, are they? :eek:

I don't think they or she is going to have a choice... that's assuming that this Nationwide run is just a warmup to an eventual crossover to a full Cup season. Course, maybe Big Daddy GoDaddy is having second thoughts about writing NASCAR entry checks next year, since the fact finding mission hasn't turned out so well thus far.

But hey, we're talking about the same person who thought she could jump straight into Cup a couple of years ago. If not for Tony Stewart and Dale, Jr. talking some sense into her last year, she might be out there puttering around in Cup already. Danica's mind works in strange ways. While observing one Cup race a year or two back, she reportedly said, "imagine how high the ratings would be if I was out there!" And to be honest, I think she's right. But I also think the ratings would be sky high if Paris Hilton was out there. I try to watch as many truck races as I can. But I very seldom watch Nationwide races (other than Road America last week, I haven't seen one in ages). But if Danica's going to be out there putting on her brand of Freak Show, I'm probably going to watch. Though the joke is already beginning to wear thin. So if all she's going to do is ask NASCAR to black flag anybody that brushes her car and cruise around while being lapped multiple times... I guess I'll have to find something else to do on weekends when I'm bored.

[markabilly]

See Post #44 above.
I don't read posts by DPfan...he got me banned for two weeks when I said Dp should go race go carts wearing a uniform similar to what she wore in her movie in my signature.....a birthday driving suit

[markabilly]

Vegas odds....

Danica Patrick

20 to 1: caught up in accident
12 to 1: causes accident
100 to 1: blames it on someone else

Well, kis her, if I had known these odds were available at vegas, I would have jumped a plane and bet every penny I got on the 100 to 1....the others would have been surefire winners also

btw, boys and girls stay away from betting on anything where it says she will accept full responsibility for her next screw up......unless, it has something to do with pregancy

[beachbum]

I hate to say this , but lil' shrub is just amazing to watch in a Nationwide car . If someone would just bolt his mouth shut I'd be his biggest fan .This thread is like the current media. The REAL racers are being lost in the media circus of a novelty act.

But Shrub's performance in Nationwide cars is rather amazing. At only 25 he has now lead more laps that any other driver. Just how great will / can he become? In some ways, he hasn't even reached his prime. It is almost a big story when he doesn't win.

Like some others (like Tony Stewart, DW), his mouth has gotten him in trouble, but he seems to be mellowing a bit in that regard. He still hates to win so much that when he doesn't he is a bit of a whiner, but is that bad? He REALLY wants to win everything. The difference the past year or so is that he doesn't give up when there is no hope of a win and he isn't running into people as much. He is getting all the car has.

I am starting to like the guy. He is sure fun to watch.

[beachgirl]

......unless, it has something to do with pregancy

"It's not my fault"

[beachbum]

He still hates to win so much that when he doesn't he is a bit of a whiner, but is that bad?

Correction: That should have read

"He still hates to lose so much that when he doesn't he is a bit of a whiner" Need more coffee.

[TURN3]

Can we please get back on topic here please. Danica stinks! LOL!

Lil Busch is rather amazing. I know people can't stand him but the kid can drive anything...he reminds me of PT when he was coming up. Obviously KB is already "up" but the ultra aggression win at all cost is admirable.

[Sparky1329]

Can we please get back on topic here please. Danica stinks! LOL!

Lil Busch is rather amazing. I know people can't stand him but the kid can drive anything...he reminds me of PT when he was coming up. Obviously KB is already "up" but the ultra aggression win at all cost is admirable.

I can't stand him but you're right about his talent. He doesn't wreck himself as much as he used to and it's showing in his finishes.

[00steven]

I predict a 31st out of Danica and a win for Kyle!



I was close! ;)

[Jag_Warrior]

As for her spin tearing up her car to the point that she couldn't do any better, good luck to the ESPN boys in selling that. I've seen F1 cars take harder hits than that and go on to win the race. That was barely a light tap. I'll go back and look again, but I don't recall that any part of her car was hit hard enough to do any major damage... was it? If I missed something, please clue me in. But I didn't see anything.

Unlike another member here (*cough cough* Bob! :p :) , I will accept a correction when I see or someone points out that I'm wrong. Here I was. I watched the replay and I did see that the left(?) front of Danica's car did smack the wall. So it's possible that her steering was knocked out during the incident with Shepherd.

[harvick#1]

I can't stand him but you're right about his talent. He doesn't wreck himself as much as he used to and it's showing in his finishes.

well when the Toyota program is basically second to none, its pretty easy for him, pray the new car will start evening out the playing field, the Toyotas seem to just have more power over the rest of the field

[Jag_Warrior]

This thread is like the current media. The REAL racers are being lost in the media circus of a novelty act.

Although I'm at least as guilty of doing it as others, you are on the mark. And it is being noticed by others as well.


Rumor has it that there were other drivers in Saturday's Nationwide race besides Danica Patrick. Not sure I believe it, but let me check the stats ...
... hey, how about that? Some guy named "Kyle Busch" won. Good for him. But back to Danica --
... okay, kidding. The Danicamania is back in force -- not Daytona levels, certainly, but bad enough -- so let's throw a little bit of love in some other directions. Patrick has a lot to learn, yes, and there are plenty of positives she can take from her run, yes, but let's focus on another momentous event: Kyle Busch is now the all-time leader in laps led in the Nationwide Series.
Danica, Danica, Danica. Kyle Busch wins. Danica, Danica, Danica (http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/blog/from_the_marbles/post/Danica-Danica-Danica-Kyle-Busch-wins-Danica-Dani?urn=nascar,251596)

[Lee Roy]

Danica, stay in the shallow end of the pool . . . . . . better known as the Izod Indy Car Series.

[Mark in Oshawa]

This thread is like the current media. The REAL racers are being lost in the media circus of a novelty act.

But Shrub's performance in Nationwide cars is rather amazing. At only 25 he has now lead more laps that any other driver. Just how great will / can he become? In some ways, he hasn't even reached his prime. It is almost a big story when he doesn't win.

Like some others (like Tony Stewart, DW), his mouth has gotten him in trouble, but he seems to be mellowing a bit in that regard. He still hates to win so much that when he doesn't he is a bit of a whiner, but is that bad? He REALLY wants to win everything. The difference the past year or so is that he doesn't give up when there is no hope of a win and he isn't running into people as much. He is getting all the car has.

I am starting to like the guy. He is sure fun to watch.

He is all of that.. that..but he is an arrogant little turd.....and I likely will never warm up to him.

No...I missed the race, saw the highlights..and I am still trying to figure out how DanicaFan saw the little tap and spin with Sheppard and figures it is Morgan's fault. My god, if she thinks Morgan plays rough, don't let her try pinching the Shrub or Carl Edwards? She will be in the wall and not coming out!

Delusional ideas such as Danica racing a Cup car are always fun from people who don't understand racing.

Danica being the most delusional of all, but it is clear too many people in ESPN's management have it too. Danica will find trouble on the race track again and again and again in NASCAR because she doesn't understand give and take, and doesn't understand what she needs to do during the race to make it better. She doesn't understand that the art of NASCAR is driving the imperfect race car as fast as you can.... and she doesn't understand that Morgan Sheppard is one the most gentle and sportsmanlike drivers out there, because if she is going to blame him, it proves once and for all the woman is blitering idiot.

ON some level, Milka Duno I think knows she is a fraud....Danica on the other hand..has NO clue....

[beachbum]

He is all of that.. that..but he is an arrogant little turd.....and I likely will never warm up to him.

No...I missed the race, saw the highlights..and I am still trying to figure out how DanicaFan saw the little tap and spin with Sheppard and figures it is Morgan's fault. My god, if she thinks Morgan plays rough, don't let her try pinching the Shrub or Carl Edwards? She will be in the wall and not coming out!

Delusional ideas such as Danica racing a Cup car are always fun from people who don't understand racing.

Danica being the most delusional of all, but it is clear too many people in ESPN's management have it too. Danica will find trouble on the race track again and again and again in NASCAR because she doesn't understand give and take, and doesn't understand what she needs to do during the race to make it better. She doesn't understand that the art of NASCAR is driving the imperfect race car as fast as you can.... and she doesn't understand that Morgan Sheppard is one the most gentle and sportsmanlike drivers out there, because if she is going to blame him, it proves once and for all the woman is blitering idiot.

ON some level, Milka Duno I think knows she is a fraud....Danica on the other hand..has NO clue....Well said. Back when I was involved in racing, there were always racers who always seemed to get caught up in various on track problems, while others seemed to miss all of the "action". The difference wasn't talent or even speed, but awareness. The nice technical term is "situational awareness". Some racers had to hit an object before they knew it was there while others just seemed to "sense" where everything was on track and what was going to happen next. They often seemed to react to an incident even before it happened. The former had lots of "incidents" while the latter seemed to always have nice results.

Danice seems so wound up in herself that she doesn't seem to have a clue about her surroundings. She drives like she is the only one on track. I have always felt the only reason she has had some good results in the IRL was that no one trusted her enough to race her hard. They would just let her go. That won't happen in NASCAR and lately even the other IRL drivers are getting more forceful. I still don't think they trust her, but when pressed, she usually backs off.

She doesn't know what sportsmanship is, and I suspect never will. She has zero respect for other drivers - on or off of the track. If there is one thing that isn't tolerated on track is a lack of respect. Eventually, there will be a payback.

But going after 68 year old Morgan Sheppard? Yeah she is a blithering idiot.

[DanicaFan]

Mark, Morgan did take her out but it was not intentional. Morgan Shepherd is a very nice and humble driver, it was not on purpose. But, Morgan did get loose and hit Danica. It was not her fault.

[TURN3]

Mark, Morgan did take her out but it was not intentional. Morgan Shepherd is a very nice and humble driver, it was not on purpose. But, Morgan did get loose and hit Danica. It was not her fault.

DanicaFan, you're right it wasn't her "fault" as has been pointed out here. But you (you being Danica) have to understand the situation. She didn't give him any room and he had to pinch the car down and got loose. It is racing, no big deal on his end. On her end, the situation is she's racing for basically last and should've drifted high and let him go. Live to race another lap. She is the driver of the 2 that could have AVOIDED the incident...but she's not that smart to recognize that.

[muggle not]

well when the Toyota program is basically second to none, its pretty easy for him, pray the new car will start evening out the playing field, the Toyotas seem to just have more power over the rest of the field
kyle who, this is his 6th full season and he has won how many Championships......"0"........Gordon won a Championship in his 3rd full season.
People can talk all they want about Kyle but he has won "zip" Championships going into his 6th season.

Kyle's average career finish is 15.9.
Harvick has an average career finish of 15.4.

[beachbum]

Mark, Morgan did take her out but it was not intentional. Morgan Shepherd is a very nice and humble driver, it was not on purpose. But, Morgan did get loose and hit Danica. It was not her fault.Yes, it was her fault - or at least just an avoidable incident.

As many have said, she didn't do anything, which is the whole problem. She should have given a bit of room and respect. She didn't and pinched Morgan and she ended up in the wall.

[harvick#1]

kyle who, this is his 6th full season and he has won how many Championships......"0"........Gordon won a Championship in his 3rd full season.
People can talk all they want about Kyle but he has won "zip" Championships going into his 6th season.

Kyle's average career finish is 15.9.
Harvick has an average career finish of 15.4.

I was talking more about the worthless Nationwide series now, the Toyota's have such an edge its as many drivers have said "monkeys can drive that car and win"

I kinda laugh that the media makes Kyle like an amazing driver, but while he can be very fast for the first 10 laps into runs, watch the long runs and after he tortured his tires, he moves right to the back.

but to the Cup Statistics as well comparing drivers

harv: 339 starts, 15 dnfs
kyle: 203 starts, 20 dnfs

Kyle doesnt normally know how to stay outta trouble :p :

[slorydn1]

Ok all, as many of you have probably figured out on your own, the is some kind of technical problem affecting the forum today. We are aware of it but we are still not sure what is going on.

I am placing this in this thread for a few reasons, not the least of which is that I cannot create a new thread.

The other is because the discussion is starting to head down a road it doesn't need to go (remember the first post I made after becoming moderator about attacking the post and not the poster).

Unfortunately , because of the technical problem the forum is experiencing I can not edit posts at this time, nor can I PM the offending party to let them know that they have messed up, nor can I asses an infraction to the person(s) that may have allegedly stepped over the line, but I am sure that this technical issue will be resolved in short order.

So, when it is, don't be surprised IF you receive a little something in your inbox, whomever that may be that might receive something.

I will say this, no body will be getting banned for anything I have seen before this post, so everyone can breathe a little easier.

I do apologize for having to do this publicly, the tech gremlins leave me no other choice.

That is all....

[markabilly]

okay, I apologize for what I said, and promise to read each letter of each post by danica fan, and it was ALL my fault for having said what I said back many months or years ago about DP and her go cart.....but I still got this mental image of her in that ...... :eek:
BTW--Next time anyone hears the odds are 100 to 1 that she will blame someone else for her next accident, just let me know, cause I need some easy money :D



PS edit:
Sorry harvick, I apologize, I know you meant the odds were a 100 to 1 that she would take responsibility, and as punishment for that sin, I promise to read each and every letter of each post by slory dn1, some day down the road, no matter how boring

And beachgirl, "not my fault" did make me laugh, as that also gave me many mental images of how that might ACTUALLY be true, and I apologize for the times I may have offended thee, by defending sweet dp.

And finally, even now, the press on the net, is still talking about the "DP brand" ..... :rolleyes:

I would say something about branding....but i better keep that mental image only in my head....

[Lee Roy]

harv: 339 starts, 15 dnfs
kyle: 203 starts, 20 dnfs

Kyle doesnt normally know how to stay outta trouble :p :

harv: 339 starts, 12 wins (3.5%)
kyle: 203 starts, 18 wins (8.8%)

But Kyle does know how to win. Ya wanna compare winning statistics in the Nationwide series?

[muggle not]

harv: 339 starts, 12 wins (3.5%)
kyle: 203 starts, 18 wins (8.8%)

But Kyle does know how to win. Ya wanna compare winning statistics in the Nationwide series?
lets compare in the "big leagues", Cup.
How many Championships? :p :

[TURN3]

lets compare in the "big leagues", Cup.
How many Championships? :p :

Those are the big leauge stats if I'm not mistaken. Neither has any championships in Cup obviously. Funny thing is there has only been different champs in cup going back 15 years. Take out the one off's of by Kurt Busch an Kenseth and you bascically have to be Labonte, Gordon, Stewart, or Johnson. To me, not having won a championship at 6 years in is no insult to Kyle. He has many years ahead of him to win championships and they may not be that far away. Bottom line is he's not a likable guy, but he's probably one of the 3 most "talented" drivers out there.

[harvick#1]

But Kyle does know how to win. Ya wanna compare winning statistics in the Nationwide series?

sorry but the Nationwide no longer counts, the series died in 2005 where the Cup guys would only race like 17 events max.

so Harvick has 1 championship to 0 over Busch, as even though Harv was the first guy to to the double, it wasnt by choice, and that one was actually harder considering the tracks they used to race at in 01.


Harv: starts:217 wins:33 poles:26 top 5:119 top 10:164 DNF:7 avefinish: 9.5 avestart: 8.6
Kyle: starts:186 wins:36 poles:22 top 5:91 top 10:116 DNF:24 avefinish:12.6 avestart:8.9

sorry but Harvick has got Busch covered in stats as well in the Nationwide, along with 2 championships to 1, and that one by Kyle, he really only race 2 guys all year in Edwards and Brad K.

[TURN3]

sorry but the Nationwide no longer counts, the series died in 2005 where the Cup guys would only race like 17 events max.

so Harvick has 1 championship to 0 over Busch, as even though Harv was the first guy to to the double, it wasnt by choice, and that one was actually harder considering the tracks they used to race at in 01.


Harv: starts:217 wins:33 poles:26 top 5:119 top 10:164 DNF:7 avefinish: 9.5 avestart: 8.6
Kyle: starts:186 wins:36 poles:22 top 5:91 top 10:116 DNF:24 avefinish:12.6 avestart:8.9

sorry but Harvick has got Busch covered in stats as well in the Nationwide, along with 2 championships to 1, and that one by Kyle, he really only race 2 guys all year in Edwards and Brad K.

I'm sorry Harv but I don't think I'm following your logic. You're saying that because Kyle came along after Harvick, his stats in Nationwide don't count the same as before 2005? Maybe I'm misinterpreting your statements. If you ask me, they are both punks. Always have been, probably both always will be. The biggest difference in the two is that Kyle probably has more potential and I think most people would agree is the more talented. But again, he is an easy punk to hate, I'll give you that.

[harvick#1]

I'm sorry Harv but I don't think I'm following your logic. You're saying that because Kyle came along after Harvick, his stats in Nationwide don't count the same as before 2005? Maybe I'm misinterpreting your statements. If you ask me, they are both punks. Always have been, probably both always will be. The biggest difference in the two is that Kyle probably has more potential and I think most people would agree is the more talented. But again, he is an easy punk to hate, I'll give you that.

no I'm saying is when the 2006 season started, thats when the "double-duty" drivers began. Truex was the last true champion in this series as it was a stepping stone into the Cup series.

Nascar really hurt this series when they let the Cup guys race a full season in AAA, its pathetic, I know in this day and age, tickets sell for the cup drivers, but the stand-alone races are normally better as you see the young guys fight for a respected win in which they have a few shots at

[DanicaFan]

Brace yourself Turn3 but I am going to have to agree with you on this one. While Harvick is a great driver, I do believe Kyle Busch is better overall. The kid can race in anything. I will have to give the nod to Kyle in this one and I like Kyle Busch too. ;)

[Lee Roy]

Harv: starts:217 wins:33 (15.2%)
Kyle: starts:186 wins:36 (19.3%)



Sorry, all the rest of that stuff is BS.

[slorydn1]

I know I've done this before, but I guess in light of the recent discussion it is time to drag out the updated stats, Head to Head (which is the only true measure of how 2 drivers compare).

Kevin Harvick and Kyle Busch have faced each other a staggering 370 races across all three of the top Nascar national series. I say staggering because of how young Kyle still is, and Harvick has faced only 1 other driver more times than that and that would be Greg Biffle (507 races)

Head to ahead across all 370 races Harvick wins 188-182. That means that Harvick finished ahead of Busch 188 times and Busch finished ahead of Harvick 182.

Stat line:
Busch: 50 wins, 146 t5's, 199 t10's, 11.6 avg finish*
Harvick: 33 wins, 132 t5's, 211 t10's, 9.4 avg finish*

* the total avg finish is not 100% accurate as it is really the avg finish of the top 3 series added together and divided by 3, but for comparison purposes it works because we are comparing apples to apples. The avg finish in each series is accurate, of course.

Those 370 races break down as follows:

Sprint Cup: 203

Head to Head: Busch wins 106-97

Stat line:
Busch: 18 wins, 61 t5's, 94 t10's 15.9 avg finish
Harvick: 8 wins, 41 t5's, 85 t10's, 15.3 avg finish

Nationwide Series: 150 races

Head to Head: Harvick wins 83-67

Stat line:
Busch: 28 wins, 73 t5's, 93 t10's, avg finish 12.1
Harvick: 20 wins, 77 t5's, 111 t10's, avg finish 8.1

Camping World Truck Series: 17 races

Head to Head: Busch wins 9-8

Stat Line:
Busch: 4 wins, 12 t5's, 12 t10's, 6.9 avg finish
Harvick: 5 wins, 14 t5's, 15 t10's, 4.9 avg finish :eek:

Harv has the edge in Championships, 2-1 (all Nationwide Series)

Harv has the edge in Marquee events won: 2007 Daytona 500, 2003 Brickyard 400, 2007 All-Star race, and 2 Budweiser Shootouts.

I'll throw Kyle a bone and say he does have the 2008 Southern 500 (even though the race wasn't called the Southern 500 when it was run, it appears that it is being considered that for statistical purposes and if so, Kyle desrves to be recognized for it. If not that, then he has won none of the "marquee" events in Nascar.

Neither driver has won he Coke 600, yet....

AS for Sprint Cup series points, counting the 6 races that Kyle ran in 2004,
Harvick has the edge in points scored (including Chase bonuses):29,810-29,389, or a 421 point edge.

What get's the big :eek: is the 83 wins combined out of 370 races competed in, and how many more would there have been, especially in the Cup Series, had nascar not banned testing at a time one 1 team (the 48) had pretty much a stranglehold on what it takes to make the cot run well? All I can say I can say is WOW.....

Both drivers are extremely talented. Both drivers have won on every type of track NASCAR runs on. Busch has the edge in the take no prisoners, nuke 'em all, win or bring back the steering wheel trying mentality, whereas Harvick has the edge in making sure his car gets the finish it deserves. He takes a 10th place car and gets a 10th place finish out of it. If he finshes in the mid 20's in a given race, then thats all the car had in it. His 15 DNF's in the cup series are incredible, and he has completed more laps in the Cup Series since 2001 than any other driver, even more impressive when his automatic 700 lap deficit is factored in (he did not compete in the 2001 Daytona 500, obviously, and was suspended for the 2002 spring Martinsville race).

Harvick is starting to remind me of Bobby Labonte during the late 90's through 2000. People forget, but he was the original "Mr Where did HE come from?" of the current generation of drivers. He would ride around all day in 8th-12th place, then when the pay window opened he was running at or near the front.
Harvick, especially in plate races, has become that person.

Kyle Busch is reminding me more and more of DW everyday, and if history is any indication, then he will get his Cup Championships soon enough.

[slorydn1]

so Harvick has 1 championship to 0 over Busch, as even though Harv was the first guy to to the double, it wasnt by choice, and that one was actually harder considering the tracks they used to race at in 01.




Sorry Harv, I have to disagree with you there. Of the 2 Nationwide Championships Kevin won, 2006 is the most impressive.

In 2001, Kevin had the car to beat. Not one of the best cars, but the best car by a wide margin. That #2 RCR AC/Delco team was the 48 of its time, no bdy else had equioment that could come close.

In 2006 Harvick handicapped himself with driving his own stuff part of the time and won 9 races, and had 32 of 35 top 10 finishes. Back in 06, his KHI stuff was not anywhere near as competitive as the RCR 21 car he was driving most of the year, and he DESTROYED the rest of the field. Imagine how bad the beatdown would have been if he had driven the 21 in all 35 races...as it was he won by 824 points over another cup driver in cup level equipment, the following years Champion, Carl Edwards. 1000 points and 12-15 wins would not have been out of the realm of possibilty.

[TURN3]

Very good analysis slory.

[TURN3]

Brace yourself Turn3 but I am going to have to agree with you on this one. While Harvick is a great driver, I do believe Kyle Busch is better overall. The kid can race in anything. I will have to give the nod to Kyle in this one and I like Kyle Busch too. ;)

That's good! Think of how many more times you'd be right if you agreed with me more. :eek: And please quite winking at me!

[00steven]

There both very talented but I would have to say Kyle has him covered.

[harvick#1]

I'm sorry Harv but I don't think I'm following your logic. You're saying that because Kyle came along after Harvick, his stats in Nationwide don't count the same as before 2005? Maybe I'm misinterpreting your statements. If you ask me, they are both punks. Always have been, probably both always will be. The biggest difference in the two is that Kyle probably has more potential and I think most people would agree is the more talented. But again, he is an easy punk to hate, I'll give you that.

Harvick drives for himself with very-little to no Chevy help, Kyle Busch drives for Joe Gibbs that is Toyota backed.

the one thing you can watch Kyle, especially in the Cup Series is while he may be fast in the short runs, he falls off fast all the time, but thanks to Nascar throwing random debris cautions all the time, he gets the benefit of not having long green runs all the time.

also RCR has not been the team that has ever been forceful since Earnhardt died. they have struggled behind Hendrick/Gibbs and Roush, they really had big problems on the cookie cutters but as this season has been, look who the point leader is and who has the most top 10's so far in the Cup series.

also Denny Hamlin is a much better driver than Kyle, IMO, on short runs, Kyle maybe one of the best, but as the long runs go, he torches his tires every time and never learns.

hell, most of the guys in the garage think Harvick is one of the best behind Johnson.

look at Kyles states before and after Toyota backing, and you'll find some crazy numbers in that, as Toyota loves spending tons of money on racing programs, and with Gibbs being the #1 in the stable, they get the major advantages from Toyota

[harvick#1]

I'll throw Kyle a bone and say he does have the 2008 Southern 500 (even though the race wasn't called the Southern 500 when it was run, it appears that it is being considered that for statistical purposes and if so, Kyle desrves to be recognized for it. If not that, then he has won none of the "marquee" events in Nascar.


the Southern 500 will always be the fall race, when Darlington in the summer heat seperated the men from the boys. There is no more Southern 500's until Darlington gets a 2nd date or they move the one race back to the fall.

[slorydn1]

the Southern 500 will always be the fall race, when Darlington in the summer heat seperated the men from the boys. There is no more Southern 500's until Darlington gets a 2nd date or they move the one race back to the fall.

I feel your pain, and agree for the most part. But, it seems that for statistical purposes, NASCAR is counting the 500 mile races from 2005 on as the Southern 500 (remember, the early season race had been a 400 miler for years when they were running two races a year) and a win at Darlington is still one of the toughest to get (our guy still hasn't gotten it done, yet, in any series!)

[muggle not]

Potential is a dime-a-dozen. Tell me how good Kyle is when he has actually won a Championship.

[TURN3]

Potential is a dime-a-dozen. Tell me how good Kyle is when he has actually won a Championship.

Same goes for Harvick then

The comparison of the 2 is what has come up here and slory posted the facts as they are. The rest is subject to opinion...but much like when pointing out how somebody like Danica has failed her entire career...STATS DONT'T LIE. Excuses like Toyota has a better program, and this team is better than that team...all that is sour grapes. Unless you're in a Hendrick car, you're not in a top team. Since when did Gibbs get mentioned in a conversation with Hendrick any differently than RCR or Roush?

Bottom line is from the actual stats that have been posted here, Kyle has accomplished the same if not more than Harvick in less time. Compare the stats anyway you want, win %, total wins, etc. It all tells the same story. So for somebody to say Kyle Busch wears his tires out blah blah blah...sure does win a lot with worn tires!

[muggle not]

Same goes for Harvick then

The comparison of the 2 is what has come up here and slory posted the facts as they are. The rest is subject to opinion...but much like when pointing out how somebody like Danica has failed her entire career...STATS DONT'T LIE. Excuses like Toyota has a better program, and this team is better than that team...all that is sour grapes. Unless you're in a Hendrick car, you're not in a top team. Since when did Gibbs get mentioned in a conversation with Hendrick any differently than RCR or Roush?

Bottom line is from the actual stats that have been posted here, Kyle has accomplished the same if not more than Harvick in less time. Compare the stats anyway you want, win %, total wins, etc. It all tells the same story. So for somebody to say Kyle Busch wears his tires out blah blah blah...sure does win a lot with worn tires!
I thought I read where somoene posted that Kyle was one of the 3 best drivers in Cup. That was where I was coming from when I posted that Kyle has won "zip" Championships. Gordon and Jimmie Johnson have won 4 each and Tony has won several. How do you possibly rate Kyle above them.

[TURN3]

I thought I read where somoene posted that Kyle was one of the 3 best drivers in Cup. That was where I was coming from when I posted that Kyle has won "zip" Championships. Gordon and Jimmie Johnson have won 4 each and Tony has won several. How do you possibly rate Kyle above them.

I think I said a few posts ago that he is one of the top 3 most talented...that is my opinion and its shared widely. Being the most talented isn't necessarily the best. Jeff Gordon has 4 championships but what has he done the past 7 years or so? Notta! So is he still one of the 2 best considering only he and Jimmy have 4 championships? If measuring how good somebody were was as simple as just counting championships there would be universal logic...and that isn't the case. My opinion is Kyle and Montoya are about as talented of drivers there are in the world...and you'll hear media and competitors say that about every week. Can you imagine Montoya in a competitive rig? He's got the quickest reflexes of anybody driving cup according to JJ himself.

Let me add that only Labonte, Gordon, Johnson, Kenseth, Ku. Busch, and Stewart are apparently the only good drivers in Cup...they're the only past champions (unless I left one out).

[slorydn1]

Potential is a dime-a-dozen. Tell me how good Kyle is when he has actually won a Championship.


Same goes for Harvick then



And for Mark Martin; Kasey Kahne; Denny Hamlin; Jeff Burton; Carl Edwards; Greg Biffle; Ryan Newman; Dale Earnhardt, Jr ;

Do any of them suck (fan preferences aside?)

Mark Martin has won 95 races in the three top series, 40 of those in the Cup Series. Finished p2 last year (and won 5 races). Has finished p2 in the standings 5 times-but 1 team always seems to do it better in that year, and its always someone different-Dale Earnhardt, Sr, (1990,1994) Jeff Gordon (1998), Tony Stewart (2002), Jimmie "4-time" Johnson (2009)...5 times over a 19 year span. But yep-come back and talk to me when he wins a Championship

Kasey Kahne must really suck. He has only won 20 times, only 11 of those in the cup series. Rick Hendrick has to be a total idiot to want to bring him aboard along side another total failure-

Dale Earnhardt, Jr 40 wins (18 of those in the Cup Series) 2 time Nationwide Series Champion, Daytona 500 winner-but unable to win the almighty Cup Championship

Jeff Burton-48 wins (21 of those in the Cup Series) Like Kasey Kahne- he must really be the lowest of the low...Hasn't won the championship in any series-

Denny Hamlin-has won 5 cup races this year alone, 23 total wins (13 in the Cup Series) but no Championships in any series

I could go on and on with all of the drivers I named-every one of them have won double digit races in the Cup Series, some of them have one 1 or more championships in the lower series-and yes, add both Harvick and Busch to this list.

The teams they drive for have alot to do with it. As Turn3 says all teams but Hendrick have up and down years.

Nascar and their media "partners" have made it all about the almighty Cup championsip. Heck, Nascar even dreamed up a freakin playoff system to be just like stick and ball sports. Why even bother giving out trophys for race wins anymore, since they really don't mean anything . Nascar wants to be the NFL? When my beloved Chicago Bears pound the Detroit Lions into submission in week 1 at Soldier Field this year are they gonna get a trophy? No. They'll get a tick in the win column which could help with their playoff seeding when the time comes. Oh and Dan Marino sucks, too-the NFL Hall of Fame selection committee must be a real bunch of idots-he has no championship rings. :p :

Heck, I'm fast becoming of a mind that drivers don't win championships- crew chief's do. But thats the subject for a whole different thread, isn't it.

That said-Kyle Busch-and I am not a real fan of his- is one of the best talents to come down the pike in a long time; and Harvick who has been saddled with subpar cars more often than not over his career is pretty darn good too. And so is Kasey Kahne, Denny Hamlin, Carl Edwards, Ryan Newman, and Greg Biffle. Given the right circumstances, and a Chad Knaus type CC, anyone of these dirivers could win the Cup Championship-some probably will whenever Chad decides retire....Some of these may win multiple times.

This is not meant to be a smack down, but a reality check. It shows just how screwed up the sport has become.

[muggle not]

Whoa, no one said that any of those drivers 'suck". They are all good. However, Gordon has 82 wins, JJ has 52 wins and Tony has 37. When a drivers career is over they will be judged, for the most part, on the number of wins and number of championships they have. Not how much potential they had. :)

[slorydn1]

Whoa, no one said that any of those drivers 'suck". They are all good. However, Gordon has 82 wins, JJ has 52 wins and Tony has 37. When a drivers career is over they will be judged, for the most part, on the number of wins and number of championships they have. Not how much potential they had. :)

True, i have no quibble with that per se....My real fav has 7 rings and 76+ cup trophy's (I say 76 plus because I lost count of all the trophies that don't count (Shootouts, All-Stars, twin-125's and the like).

I guess all this chase bs has made me real sensitive over the years because I keep hearing how JJ is probably the GOAT because he has won 4 in a row,(and no, you have never said that to the best of my knowledge) yet he has never had to put together a full season like Gordon, Waltrip, Yarbrough Earnhardt and Petty have and all they were able to do was back to back (ok Cale did the three-peat).

I give props where props are due and no matter what points system one used last year, JJ won, hands down....Chase, Non -Chase, Current F1, Old F1. He got it done...but 4 in a row....puh-lease...

Kyle Busch is not the best ever. Neither is Harvick. But the two of them are among the most talented drivers I have had the pleasure to watch carve up traffic since the 90's for sure. Big difference between talent, and what one is able to do with it, what the circumstances of the day do to allow that talent to come thru is a lot to do with it.

[TURN3]

Whoa, no one said that any of those drivers 'suck". They are all good. However, Gordon has 82 wins, JJ has 52 wins and Tony has 37. When a drivers career is over they will be judged, for the most part, on the number of wins and number of championships they have. Not how much potential they had. :)

Seems like you're changing your story a bit mugs...now you say that number of wins DOES matter? Come on, at least be consistent in your point. First it was a measure by championships...now by championships and wins?

So the person you seem to be putting down is Kyle...now he doesn't win enough? Over the past 2 years plus he's gotta be one of the leaders in number of W's...I don't know the numbers, I'm just saying. The only guy that I can think of that wins as often as him is JJ and he with Chad is a freak of nature. So all that "potential" must be worth something halfway into year 6 of his cup career huh?

[slorydn1]

Kyle...now he doesn't win enough? Over the past 2 years plus he's gotta be one of the leaders in number of W's...

50 :eek: total wins in the last 2.5 years, 14 of those in the Cup Series, vs 19 for JJ, all in the Cup Series

[harvick#1]

sorry but Truck and Nationwide stats dont count, Nascar needed to after Harvick won in 06 to not allow any driver with 1 year of Nascar cup experience to be allowed more than 15 races per season in the lower ranks.

the Trucks and Nationwide series is there for up and coming talent, not for Cup drivers stealing time from kids trying to make it into Nascar.

[slorydn1]

sorry but Truck and Nationwide stats dont count, Nascar needed to after Harvick won in 06 to not allow any driver with 1 year of Nascar cup experience to be allowed more than 15 races per season in the lower ranks.

the Trucks and Nationwide series is there for up and coming talent, not for Cup drivers stealing time from kids trying to make it into Nascar.

I guess this will always be the one thing that you and I will always fundamentally disagree. I belive that without Harvick, Edwards, Busch, and now Hamlin, Logano and Keselowski that the Nationwide series will just die a slow death. The truck series would survive, in my view, because it is substantially different from the Cup Series....Cup is Cars, Camping World Trucks are, well.....trucks.

I will agree with you on one premise. It may have been better if the cup drivers never went down that slippery slope to start with, and Harvick was the trail blazer that the other drivers followed to see if was feasible for them to even attempt to run for dual championships in the first place. When he won the 2001 Nationwide Championship at the same time he had one of the most successful rookie years ever in the cup series, well then it was Katie bar the door.

But now that we are where we are, so to speak, alot of fans, and just as importantly, potential sponsors and the networks have come to expect a certain level of competition in the Nationwide Series, and for at least a few Cup drivers to attempt the Championship, and absent that, the network attention and sponsor money will dry up.

[Lee Roy]

the Trucks and Nationwide series is there for up and coming talent, not for Cup drivers stealing time from kids trying to make it into Nascar.

That's non-sense. Those series were never designed to be "stepping stones".

[TURN3]

sorry but Truck and Nationwide stats dont count, Nascar needed to after Harvick won in 06 to not allow any driver with 1 year of Nascar cup experience to be allowed more than 15 races per season in the lower ranks.

the Trucks and Nationwide series is there for up and coming talent, not for Cup drivers stealing time from kids trying to make it into Nascar.

Yes, I agree with Lee Roy, those series weren't designed as stepping stones or ladder series. I'm not an extreme NASCAR history buff but I believe I remember the likes of Dale Sr., Richard Petty, and Mark Martin doing lots and lots of racing in then Busch series. Sorry Harv, you're usually pretty dead on but this topic you're off a bit. We can't let hatred toward a driver spray red mist on the facts and Kyle has the facts. This isn't a career 1 win driver without a clue how to perform at the professional level here, cough cough!

[muggle not]

Bottom line, Nationwide or Truck series wins/championships do not count as wins/championships in the Cup Series.

Remember, Tim Richmond was a great driver with great talent and potential but he doesn't compare to say, Dale, SR. since Tim's win total and lack of Championship was lacking for his career.

[harvick#1]

That's non-sense. Those series were never designed to be "stepping stones".

back in the day no, but now, yes it was/is, how many guys drove straight into the Cup series????? not many, they all raced in the Busch/Nationwide series for a few years before coming up, Jeff Gordon didnt jump into Cup right away, nor did Tony Stewart, or Mark Martin, Kevin Harvick, Dale Earnhardt Jr., and even Kyle Busch. Kurt Busch, Carl Edwards, and Greg Biffle all started their years with Roush in the Trucks before moving up to the big time. Logano, was he in Cup right when he started? no he was in ARCA and Nationwide.

dont be tellin me that the Trucks or Nationwide is not a "stepping stone", the series just got overrun, or else we'd be talking about whos the gonna win the title if Allgier could hold his nearly 400 point lead over the next leading NWS runner. instead we have drivers that shouldn't be in AAA anymore.

thats like Alex Ovechkin or Crosby going back to the AHL or OHL, or Lebron James playing in the CBA. the Trucks are still ok since Harvick and Busch dont make enough appearances to get involved in the championship, but in the NWS, its just a joke

[Lee Roy]

back in the day no, but now, yes it was/is, how many guys drove straight into the Cup series????? not many, they all raced in the Busch/Nationwide series for a few years before coming up, Jeff Gordon didnt jump into Cup right away, nor did Tony Stewart, or Mark Martin, Kevin Harvick, Dale Earnhardt Jr., and even Kyle Busch. Kurt Busch, Carl Edwards, and Greg Biffle all started their years with Roush in the Trucks before moving up to the big time. Logano, was he in Cup right when he started? no he was in ARCA and Nationwide.

dont be tellin me that the Trucks or Nationwide is not a "stepping stone", the series just got overrun, or else we'd be talking about whos the gonna win the title if Allgier could hold his nearly 400 point lead over the next leading NWS runner. instead we have drivers that shouldn't be in AAA anymore.

thats like Alex Ovechkin or Crosby going back to the AHL or OHL, or Lebron James playing in the CBA. the Trucks are still ok since Harvick and Busch dont make enough appearances to get involved in the championship, but in the NWS, its just a joke

I find your assertion that the NNS is a stepping stone to Cup and that it should be managed as such to be wrong. It was not established as a training series for aspiring Cup drivers, and it never was intended as such. Many Cup drivers have raced in the NNS before stepping up to a Cup ride, but that doesn't make it a series dedicated soley to that purpose.

Hopefully, the folks at NASCAR are too smart to start saying who can and who can't race in the NNS. That would destroy a great racing series.

[harvick#1]

ok, dont care anymore with the fight, I just got called back to work at my old job, and with todays struggles, I'm so happy to be working again and getting that money :D :beer:

[TURN3]

ok, dont care anymore with the fight, I just got called back to work at my old job, and with todays struggles, I'm so happy to be working again and getting that money :D :beer:

Congrats to you on that.

[Lee Roy]

ok, dont care anymore with the fight, I just got called back to work at my old job, and with todays struggles, I'm so happy to be working again and getting that money :D :beer:


And congratulations from me, also. Hope all goes well for you there.

[harvick#1]

thanks gents, it was a long year of waiting nervously wondering if I would ever be called back. time to make that big money again :D

[slorydn1]

ok, dont care anymore with the fight, I just got called back to work at my old job, and with todays struggles, I'm so happy to be working again and getting that money :D :beer:

That's awesome :up: I was reading through some old threads last night and came across the thread when you posted u were starting a new job but heard that CAT was fixin to start call backs for the people that got laid off 6 months ahead of you and was going to ask how that was going....Slo2 says thats great, too :up:

[muggle not]

Harvick, let me add my congratulations. It's about time that you started doing some work. Getting paid adds to the enjoyment. :)

[harvick#1]

Harvick, let me add my congratulations. It's about time that you started doing some work. Getting paid adds to the enjoyment. :)

I actually did get a job in January, but by the time March hit, they laid me off because they no longer had work. but with being back a Cat, it will be alot more safe openfully, I am actually working back on my old line which is like winning the jackpot and my buddy said they are giving away major overtime, so I'll prolly be there 6 days a week again gettin some serious bank.

[muggle not]

I actually did get a job in January, but by the time March hit, they laid me off because they no longer had work. but with being back a Cat, it will be alot more safe openfully, I am actually working back on my old line which is like winning the jackpot and my buddy said they are giving away major overtime, so I'll prolly be there 6 days a week again gettin some serious bank.
When OT is available, work it. Advice from an "old geezer". :D

[wbcobrar]

Glad to hear your back to work Harvick#1 :beer: .That must feel good , congratulations .

[harvick#1]

When OT is available, work it. Advice from an "old geezer". :D

in 2008, I was working nearly 6 days a week, 48 hours of pay, was great to see on a paycheck, but it sucked not seeing family and friends after awhile

[Mark in Oshawa]

ok, dont care anymore with the fight, I just got called back to work at my old job, and with todays struggles, I'm so happy to be working again and getting that money :D :beer:

Congrats...glad to see one of us is working!

Now I need to find me a new gig, because unlike you, my old boss wont be calling me.....and I don't want to do that anymore anyhow...

[harvick#1]

thanks Mark.

I remember you put that post up awhile ago about your boss, hopefully you can get somethin soon, the economy is been a real drag with leaders being complete morons, and Obama really had nothing to do with my job coming back neither, so I hope he takes no credit to it, but he will