Sprint Cup to Road America?

[booger]

Anyone want to report on their experience at the Nationwide race at Road America on Saturday? Huge crowd. Long race. Curt Cavin reports this a.m. that he believes the Sprint Cup will be on Road America schedule next year. Any comments?

[Lee Roy]

Anyone want to report on their experience at the Nationwide race at Road America on Saturday? Huge crowd. Long race. Curt Cavin reports this a.m. that he believes the Sprint Cup will be on Road America schedule next year. Any comments?


Curt who?

[slorydn1]

Curt Who is right :p

Although I wish it would happen and would give up body parts to make it happen, I don't see it happening in my lifetime....not enough seats.

The Cup Series raced there once, back on August 12, 1956. Only 10k showed up, so NASCAR never returned until the Nationwide race this year.

http://racing-reference.info/race/1956-37/W

That said, 50k showed up to the Natwide race this year, but NASCAR won't let the Sprint Cup series go to a track in the middle of nowhere-and Elkhart Lake Wisconsin is even more in the middle of nowhere than Hamlet, North Carolina (the ROCK).

[Bob Riebe]

Curt Who is right :p

Although I wish it would happen and would give up body parts to make it happen, I don't see it happening in my lifetime....not enough seats.

The Cup Series raced there once, back on August 12, 1956. Only 10k showed up, so NASCAR never returned until the Nationwide race this year.

http://racing-reference.info/race/1956-37/W

That said, 50k showed up to the Natwide race this year, but NASCAR won't let the Sprint Cup series go to a track in the middle of nowhere-and Elkhart Lake Wisconsin is even more in the middle of nowhere than Hamlet, North Carolina (the ROCK).

Is that based on some sort of fact or just an opinion.

The "middle of nowhere" cliche is based on nothing more than opinion.n
If racing is now dropped down to it having to be next door to something it is time to turn out the lights, the fat lady is getting ready to sing.

[Bob Riebe]

Curt Who is right :p

Although I wish it would happen and would give up body parts to make it happen, I don't see it happening in my lifetime....not enough seats.

The Cup Series raced there once, back on August 12, 1956. Only 10k showed up, so NASCAR never returned until the Nationwide race this year.

http://racing-reference.info/race/1956-37/W

That said, 50k showed up to the Natwide race this year, but NASCAR won't let the Sprint Cup series go to a track in the middle of nowhere-and Elkhart Lake Wisconsin is even more in the middle of nowhere than Hamlet, North Carolina (the ROCK).

Is that based on some sort of fact or just an opinion.

The "middle of nowhere" bs is based on nothing more than opinions, and has been trotted out so many times, on racing forums, without anything to back it up, it is a broken record.

If racing is now dropped down to it having to be next door to something it is time to turn out the lights, the fat lady is getting ready to sing.

[slorydn1]

Is that based on some sort of fact or just an opinion.

The "middle of nowhere" cliche is based on nothing more than opinion.n
If racing is now dropped down to it having to be next door to something it is time to turn out the lights, the fat lady is getting ready to sing.

Very much a fact.

See, growing up in the Chicago area (NW suburbs to be exact) I have been to Road America-several times. I've actually driven on the race track (have you?). It took what seemed like FOREVER to get there-and that was after stopping for lunch in the Milwaukee area. After leaving the Milwaukee area, I don't remember seeing much of anything besides farms and more farms.

I have also been to The ROCK many times as I now reside in Eastern NC

Hamlet NC is only about 3 hours from where I live now, and it is an easy drive from such cities as Charlotte, Fayetteville and Raliegh, NC and Columbia, SC.

Admittedly Hamlet is a pretty small town, and so is near by Rockingham, which when coupled with the relative lack of hotel rooms and things to do besides the racetrack itself, earned itself the tag as being in the middle of nowhere by many "fans" who just had to have some sort of other attraction near the track.

I'm sayin that (ok my Elkhart Lake experience dates back to the late 80's) its even worse up there as it is FARTHER away to everything that most people like to do (beisdes enjoying the racing) than the Rock was.

And we ALL know NASCAR is all about palaces that seat 100k plus near major metro areas. Look at the track that replaced the Rock: Auto Club Speedway.

That place is HUGE, and it's in the suburbs of the 2nd largest city in the US and it draws not that much better than Rockingham did.

Look I'm not knocking Road America, I'm just sayin that unless Brian France accidentally drives off a bridge and drowns, the Sprint Cup Series is NOT going to Road America.

[wbcobrar]

I have been attending RA events since the late 70's , and camping at at least one event (usually ALMS) every year for the last ten . The only thing close to that many people up there was the 95 Indy race , I don't know the #'s for the attendance of that race , but I'm telling you there were thousands more . And did you see the under card? 1) a dieing Trans Am (I have seen almost all the cars in that race at vintage events) 2) a sportsman level stock car series 3) friggin' mazda roadsters! I don't know how many more people you could jamb in to Road America but if Cup came we would find out! (I think a Nationwide/Grand Am weekend would be cool too .)

[Bob Riebe]

Very much a fact.

See, growing up in the Chicago area (NW suburbs to be exact) I have been to Road America-several times. I've actually driven on the race track (have you?). It took what seemed like FOREVER to get there-and that was after stopping for lunch in the Milwaukee area. After leaving the Milwaukee area, I don't remember seeing much of anything besides farms and more farms.

I have also been to The ROCK many times as I now reside in Eastern NC

Hamlet NC is only about 3 hours from where I live now, and it is an easy drive from such cities as Charlotte, Fayetteville and Raliegh, NC and Columbia, SC.

Admittedly Hamlet is a pretty small town, and so is near by Rockingham, which when coupled with the relative lack of hotel rooms and things to do besides the racetrack itself, earned itself the tag as being in the middle of nowhere by many "fans" who just had to have some sort of other attraction near the track.

I'm sayin that (ok my Elkhart Lake experience dates back to the late 80's) its even worse up there as it is FARTHER away to everything that most people like to do (beisdes enjoying the racing) than the Rock was.

And we ALL know NASCAR is all about palaces that seat 100k plus near major metro areas. Look at the track that replaced the Rock: Auto Club Speedway.

That place is HUGE, and it's in the suburbs of the 2nd largest city in the US and it draws not that much better than Rockingham did.

Look I'm not knocking Road America, I'm just sayin that unless Brian France accidentally drives off a bridge and drowns, the Sprint Cup Series is NOT going to Road America.

Yes I driven around Road America on a motorcycle; I have also made the trip to the track from near the dead center of Minn. apprx. two dozen times.

The 380 mile trip takes apprx. six hours depending on how game one is on playing the speeding ticket game.

It is no more the middle of nowhere than Mid-Ohio or Laguna Seca both of which I have also been to, and much, much less than Watkins Glen.

NASCAR, and stock cars period, from several sanctions, used to race at a variety of road courses through the sixties.
The race in the fifties has nothing to do with why they do or do not race there now. (A Jaguar also won a NASCAR race in the fifties.)

Road America has more class than even Watkins Glen ( in its current layout,) but the fact it is not owned by the France boys, and the owners are very hard nosed people who will not kiss butts, is the main reason they are not there now.

[slorydn1]

Yes I driven around Road America on a motorcycle; I have also made the trip to the track from near the dead center of Minn. apprx. two dozen times.

The 380 mile trip takes apprx. six hours depending on how game one is on playing the speeding ticket game.

It is no more the middle of nowhere than Mid-Ohio or Laguna Seca both of which I have also been to, and much, much less than Watkins Glen.

NASCAR, and stock cars period, from several sanctions, used to race at a variety of road courses through the sixties.
The race in the fifties has nothing to do with why they do or do not race there now. (A Jaguar also won a NASCAR race in the fifties.)

Road America has more class than even Watkins Glen ( in its current layout,) but the fact it is not owned by the France boys, and the owners are very hard nosed people who will not kiss butts, is the main reason they are not there now.

Cool :up: on the motorcycle part. Wish I had tried that back in my riding days (lost too many friends on motorcycles-so I gave them up).

I also agree on the "no more than Mid-Ohio and Laguna Seca" part-just note that nascar is not at either one of those fine venues (and I love them both).

The only reason why Nascar is still at the Glen is because the France family owns it, so I guess we agree there, too (I do wish that Nascar would race the boot, just as I wish they would go back to the Carousel at Infineon).

But I still stick by what I said about the Cup Series not going to Elkhart Lake-attendance aside because Wcobrar is probably right- If packaged correctly with a Grand Am and even maybe an Indy Car race they would pack the place-but because its not near (within 1-2 hours) of a major metro area Nascar isn't interested. One only has to look at every schedule "re-alignment" since the final race at North Wilkesboro in 1996.

Also keep in mind it does not appear that Nascar is intrested in adding more road courses to the Cup schedule, and that is a shame.

I, for one would like to see several more tracks on the schedule, both RC and Oval, and would be in favor of dumping the second dates at most of the tracks (except the short tracks and restrictor plate tracks-oops-excuse me-the inlet restrictor tracks if they ever get to 1985 and fuel injection-the reasons why would be the topic of a whole new thread).

I wish we could get into the archived forums. Someone had started a thread several years ago, a wish list of tracks for the cup series. There were a lot of really cool ideas in that thread. Dropping all the 2nd dates except the plate races and short tracks would open up opportunities for up to 9 more tracks.

After adding in the "new" ovals of Kentucky, Nashville, and Iowa, and returning to Rockingham, that would leave 5 more dates-and I'd be all over making all of them road course dates. Heck-I'd even be willing to have a third points race at Daytona for a crack at the road course there. Road America would certainly be on MY list, as would be Laguna Seca, Mid-Ohio, and Barber.

But what do I know-I'm just a fan that's been following Nascar for 31 years.
I do know that Nascar isn't gonna do what we want them to do. They're gonna do what they think makes them the most money, and I guess I still love it anyway, just like my kids when they screw up.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Snowball's chance in hell. ISC buys the track, then maybe. There just is no room in the sched. Which track loses a date because they wont add one to put it in there. The only way another road course gets on the schedule is if it is Montreal, ONLY because unlike Road America, THAT race means 2 things: One, respect for the Canadian market, and the fact that the place would hold over 100000 if they put up enough stands or built em high enough, and it would be a 3 minute Metro ride from trackside to downtown of one of the largest cities to host a Cup Date.

Road America doesn't give them a really NEW market (they sell lots of NASCAR swag in Wisconsin I am sure) and you have all the logisitcs issues of Small town America.

Don't misunderstand me, I love Road America, and I know the crowd would be there. What happened in 56 means jack now adays, but there are amenties that NASCAR looks for. IT is the reason they took Montreal over Mosport when they were looking at Venues in Canada for the NW date.

[booger]

Well 50 thousand is still 50 thousand and word around the area is that NASCAR Cup is not that enamored with Sonoma.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Well 50 thousand is still 50 thousand and word around the area is that NASCAR Cup is not that enamored with Sonoma.

Word around the area? Listen, NASCAR has been going up there for years, and Bruton Smith wouldn't have spent the money and time upgrading that track to have NASCAR pull the rug out from under him.

I think That race is going NO where, and Road America isn't getting a date. IT is all romantic wishful thinking, but the case for going there doesn't make the business sense that going to Montreal does, or just keeping the status quo....

[wbcobrar]

:rolleyes: Talladaga is in the middle of no where (but a France family pocket filler :D ). People may not realize all the amenties in the Elkheart Lake area . It has been a Vacation destination for wealthy Chicago/Milwaukee residence since the 20's The community of Kohler ,which is just down the road , will be holding several major golf tournaments for which there must be even more hotels built. The Dells is near as well ,( several drivers stayed there). that area is nothing but large hotels with huge indoor/outdoor water parks . Road America itself has been on a building rampage putting up the new buildings larger racing series require . For them to get Cup more will be done. The revenue a permanent Nationwide event (hopefully with ,as I said before,Grand Am ) will generate should facilitate this. I love this thread and the positive respectful response true race fans are giving my favorite track . This track speaks for itself , it is a bueatiful ,brutal beast and a true test of man and machine . It has long and illustrious racing history and is loved by all who attend , and compete . I feel confident in saying this track will one day host a regular Cup event (,and a F1 date too).. :vader:

[Lee Roy]

:rolleyes: Talladaga is in the middle of no where . . . .

That's nonsense. It's right off of Interstate 20, about an hour from Atlanta to the east and Birmingham to the west.

Sorry.

[ShiftingGears]

I wouldn't mind if it replaces Infineon - never been a fan of that circuit. The only problem is that the caution periods last forever because the track is so long and the race directors don't use local yellows.

[call_me_andrew]

Martinsville and Bristol are further into nowhere than Rockingham.

Sprint Cup has 4 races in 3 midwestern tracks that aren't very far apart. Michigan's attendence didn't look so hot this year, maybe they give up a date, but that's the only way it can happen.

If NASCAR wanted an extra road race for Cup, it would be Miller Motorsport Park.

The only problem with RA's length is that NASCAR holds to this short track notion of having the pace car's speed be constant. A road racing series lets the pace car go as fast as possible because it's that much slower than the field.

[Easy Drifter]

I would love to see either Sprint Cup or Nationwide at Mosport but it won't happen. No stands but you could easily get 50,000 plus in the grounds. Less than 1 hour from Toronto. 3 million people in TO and the GTA is 6 million.
The Cdn. Tire Nascar series does run there.
Back in the 60's and 70's the USAC stocker's ran at Mosport with no name drivers (yeah right) like Foyt, Parnelli Jones, Unser, Andretti and some outlaw from the France kingdom called Richard Petty.

[Lee Roy]

It's fallacy to think that NASCAR left Rockingham becuase of being in a rural area. If anyone thinks that, they should do two things: first, invest in a map of the southeastern US and look at how close the "Rock" is to Darlington, Charlotte, and Atlanta; as well as is general proximity to Talladega, Richmond and Daytona. Second, get some tapes of the races that were run there and see how few people attended.

[harvick#1]

Martinsville and Bristol are further into nowhere than Rockingham.

Sprint Cup has 4 races in 3 midwestern tracks that aren't very far apart. Michigan's attendence didn't look so hot this year, maybe they give up a date, but that's the only way it can happen.

If NASCAR wanted an extra road race for Cup, it would be Miller Motorsport Park.

The only problem with RA's length is that NASCAR holds to this short track notion of having the pace car's speed be constant. A road racing series lets the pace car go as fast as possible because it's that much slower than the field.

the State of California has 3 races!!!!! and not one sells out.

Road America can work, even though they only had 50K, remember this was a NWS race and there was nowhere near the field to the Cup guys.

Miller Motorsport Park is a terrific facility, but thats out in the middle of nowhere as well, but the race would be very good, I would tend to believe Nascar would use the outside track like ALMS no is doing, or else it would be like a 60 lap race

and that is very true with the pace car, in other road racing series, the pace speed is normally around 90MPH but they also use some amazing cars. (F1 has the AMG Merc, Lemans uses Audi R8's)

[Mark in Oshawa]

:rolleyes: Talladaga is in the middle of no where (but a France family pocket filler :D ). People may not realize all the amenties in the Elkheart Lake area . It has been a Vacation destination for wealthy Chicago/Milwaukee residence since the 20's The community of Kohler ,which is just down the road , will be holding several major golf tournaments for which there must be even more hotels built. The Dells is near as well ,( several drivers stayed there). that area is nothing but large hotels with huge indoor/outdoor water parks . Road America itself has been on a building rampage putting up the new buildings larger racing series require . For them to get Cup more will be done. The revenue a permanent Nationwide event (hopefully with ,as I said before,Grand Am ) will generate should facilitate this. I love this thread and the positive respectful response true race fans are giving my favorite track . This track speaks for itself , it is a bueatiful ,brutal beast and a true test of man and machine . It has long and illustrious racing history and is loved by all who attend , and compete . I feel confident in saying this track will one day host a regular Cup event (,and a F1 date too).. :vader:

You my friend are a Cheesehead. While I am sympathetic to you in this, and I love the Packers and RA, you are dreaming in techincolor.

Many are of this train of thought that Infineon shouldn't host a race because it doesn't sell out. Harvick1 says they hold 3 races in California and none sell out so that is reason. IT is utter CRAP.

First off, Harv, Fontana not selling out is another kettle of fish altogether. I think one race there is justified and that is it. THAT isn't the argument here though. Infineon doesn't "sell out" because it has unlimited capacity in theory with all the hills. The main stands were packed. If you are going to take Cup dates away based on empty seats, Atlanta, Daytona, Charlotte and a few other's would lose all their date as well.

The argument here is NASCAR first off needs another road course, likely in the chase. I agree, but NASCAR hasn't shown any signs of agreeing. Second, If you buy into the assertion they DO need one, than Why not Road America?

AS I stated in my above post. Wisconsin is a good market, close to Chicago...oh wait..what is that south of Chicago? Joliet and Chicagoland speedway, And 3 hours south of that is Indy. 6 hours from Wisconsin is Michigan....Gee...anyone in the Midwest who cannot get to those 4 events for a Cup date isnt trying too hard now are they?

Road America is a tremendous track, I love it, but it is not opening up a brand new market for Sprint Cup racing. IT is also in small town Wisconsin. Older tracks in small towns survive because of history, roots and tradition, but none of the tracks added to Cup racing in the last 20 years have been built anywhere but damn near in major cities. They will not add a road course in the middle of rural Wisconsin 1.5 hours north of Milwaukee. I love Wisconsin, but if I am NASCAR, I am not going through the political discussion of adding another road course to put a race at Road America.

I said it before, NASCAR likely wouldn't add another road course, for the chase or otherwise unless it is in a market they HAVE To have, and it is one they know will be a slam dunk. That smells Montreal. Montreal could sell more seats if they chose. They put 100000 in for f1 and the prices of THAT race are WAY more than what NASCAR charges. Given space, I am sure they could put 120000 plus in there. That would outdraw Infineon or the Glen, and half the ovals. Add in the factor of opening up the Canadian Market for Sprint Cup racing and the argument could be made. I would make it..but I can lay you even money NASCAR isn't even considering it right now.

[call_me_andrew]

the State of California has 3 races!!!!! and not one sells out.

Road America can work, even though they only had 50K, remember this was a NWS race and there was nowhere near the field to the Cup guys.

Miller Motorsport Park is a terrific facility, but thats out in the middle of nowhere as well, but the race would be very good, I would tend to believe Nascar would use the outside track like ALMS no is doing, or else it would be like a 60 lap race

I wouldn't Miller the middle of nowhere. There may not be many facilities in the immediate area, but it's only 20-25 miles west of Salt Lake City on I-80. The closest track would be Las Vegas which is about 400 miles southwest.

I would agree that Montreal would be a good candidate for a Cup race. It seems to draw as many people for F1 as it does the Nationwide Series. The great plains and pacific north west seem to remain unsaturated.

[Bob Riebe]

The bottom line is, you race at Road America if you meet THEIR standards, and the France boys are not going to get off their high-horse even if Road America drew one hundred thousand fans. (Road America draws draws apprx. forty-five thousand plus or minus fifteen, as an average no matter who races there.)
If you want to race there, you had better draw (within the above average) fans to their expectation or you will find out as Champ Car did, they will tell you good-bye.

No matter what our opinions are, we do not know what is going on behind closed doors, but Road America does not need NASCAR, and NASCAR if things hold steady does not need another track.

[Mark in Oshawa]

No matter what our opinions are, we do not know what is going on behind closed doors, but Road America does not need NASCAR, and NASCAR if things hold steady does not need another track.

Exactly, and as you put it, Road America doesn't NEED a Sprint Cup date. That said, they would be idiots to turn one down if offered. The thing is, I argued I think correctly that NASCAR doesn't need Road America to have a Cup date as much as it needs other facilities or other regions to maybe get a date.

[wbcobrar]

Six days removed from the rush of being at the Busirus 200 have added a little Spock to my Kirk . I still feel R.A. will someday host a Sprint Cup event, but it is still not written in stone that Nationwide will return . Having attended the race ,I believe the event went off well enough to earn a regular spot in NASCAR's #2 series schedule . Assuming the date remains the same it should be a well attended popular event . However , a juggle in the Cup , or Nationwide schedule putting the R.A. event opposite a oval race , would allow more high quality "road coarse ringers" to attend, and would further the appeal to the average Road America fan .If the track of the imagined new date was somewhat geographicly closer , more cup regulars could also make the show. A more viable support series (like Grand Am as I have blathered about three times in this thread ) would further enhance the event . With 4 miles of track higher quantity and quality of bleachers could eventually find seating for a staggering number of fans . I realize a good relationship first needs to develop between NASCAR and R.A. . A Nationwide series date that is a consistant large draw (which ,should happen with or without any of the above suggestions) , is the key . Once that is in place R.A. may close the deal on a Sprint Cup date as a replacement to the ending of the contract of a near by track . Just as the ending of the Milwaukee race landed them the Nationwide race in the first place (along with John Menard and others hard work) , the limiting of Chicagoland or Michigan to only one date could score them a Sprint Cup date.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Six days removed from the rush of being at the Busirus 200 have added a little Spock to my Kirk . I still feel R.A. will someday host a Sprint Cup event, but it is still not written in stone that Nationwide will return . Having attended the race ,I believe the event went off well enough to earn a regular spot in NASCAR's #2 series schedule . Assuming the date remains the same it should be a well attended popular event . However , a juggle in the Cup , or Nationwide schedule putting the R.A. event opposite a oval race , would allow more high quality "road coarse ringers" to attend, and would further the appeal to the average Road America fan .If the track of the imagined new date was somewhat geographicly closer , more cup regulars could also make the show. A more viable support series (like Grand Am as I have blathered about three times in this thread ) would further enhance the event . With 4 miles of track higher quantity and quality of bleachers could eventually find seating for a staggering number of fans . I realize a good relationship first needs to develop between NASCAR and R.A. . A Nationwide series date that is a consistant large draw (which ,should happen with or without any of the above suggestions) , is the key . Once that is in place R.A. may close the deal on a Sprint Cup date as a replacement to the ending of the contract of a near by track . Just as the ending of the Milwaukee race landed them the Nationwide race in the first place (along with John Menard and others hard work) , the limiting of Chicagoland or Michigan to only one date could score them a Sprint Cup date.



Again, you are thinking all the tracks are independent. ISC is owned by stockholders but is controlled for the most part by Lesa Kennedy France. A FRANCE family member is not going to allow her brother Brian running NASCAR to take a date away from her Michigan or Chicagoland operation and switch it up to Road America. What is more, many IN the sport want more road courses to help justify the cost of preparing a car for them and THAT hasn't pushed NASCAR into putting another Sprint Cup road course on the sched. IF they were to do so...ISC would likely either buy the track they used OR do a deal where they got a cut for promoting the race and just renting the facility. None of those scenarios work in Road America's favour.

I am not dumping on you, I would love Road America to be a Cup race, but I am just trying to explain to you why it is a pipe dream. The NW race is a great event, I hope they run it opposite an oval to add to the Regular and Ringer content.....

IT just is a real long shot. NASCAR doesn't give events to nice people or nice fans...it goes to markets it wants to add to make their "footprint" of coverage on the continent. If they didn't go to a GREAT oval like the Mile, I find it hard to believe a mainly oval series would then go to Road America...

[wbcobrar]

I understand the political :vader: side of the world is often flat . Trust me , I am more than pleased with the Nationwide race , even in its current form at R.A. .The sad Milwaukee Mile story is another thread all by itself (having more to do with the morons on the state fair board practically shoving NASCAR out the door). This winter I thought national stock car racing was dead in my state . You now have me scared that the Nationwide race will go the way of the Mexico date .

[Mark in Oshawa]

I understand the political :vader: side of the world is often flat . Trust me , I am more than pleased with the Nationwide race , even in its current form at R.A. .The sad Milwaukee Mile story is another thread all by itself (having more to do with the morons on the state fair board practically shoving NASCAR out the door). This winter I thought national stock car racing was dead in my state . You now have me scared that the Nationwide race will go the way of the Mexico date .
No...I think it stays on the sched. I think they are in Road America because they do want a presence in Wisconsin, but I think the decision was made a long time ago that it wasn't going to be with the Cup Series. If Chicagoland wasn't built, I think it is a different story, and if ISC or SMI had control over the operation at the fairgrounds, the Cup guys might have been to the Mile already.

The fact is there is only so many weeks in a year, and only so many races the Cup teams can do physically, and the numbers pretty much work against Wisconsin. For the Nationwide date, no worries. I think the fact that NASCAR went back to RA says to me they want that series in that market..