Cumbria Shootings

[Sonic]

RIP those who have died. Police will only confirm several people have been killed by a gunman.

[martinbalmer]

RIP those who have died. Police will only confirm several people have been killed by a gunman.

Indeed it's very sad and I feel for relatives who have been or will be learning of bad news.


The toll stands at 5 (or more) at the current time with others injured.

Reports also now say that Derrick Bird, the gunman, was found dead in woods.

[F1boat]

So sad... :(

[Captain VXR]

RIP http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/images/smilies/frown.gif
Why do 'people' do things like this???

[driveace]

RIP all the victims.People get upset by what others do or say to them and hurt their feelings ,so they SNAP! And this happens!
Sorry to hear of this ,but its a world thing that happens sadly!

[Daniel]

RIP :(
Why do 'people' do things like this???

Well some people just get pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed. If it was you or I'd we'd probably get mad and a bit shouty. Sadly if someone has a mental problem they might take things a bit further.

[Daniel]

Apparently 12 people dead so far :(

[Kneeslider]

It's odd to see your home town on the TV. I guess that the whole story will come out in the fullness of time. A couple of people I know have been interviewed on the news.

I guess that there weren't any armed cops in the vacinity, so they had to 'borrow' some from the UKAEA police at Sellafield, which was why they locked down Sellafiled during the day.

I guess that now Whitehaven will become one of those place names which everyone recognises, like Hungreford, or Lockerbie or Dunblaine

[Rani]

Very sad to hear. Such a terrible crime to commit. What kind of animal does things like this?

[Daniel]

Very sad to hear. Such a terrible crime to commit. What kind of animal does things like this?
I'd be very cautious before declaring that someone like this is an "animal"

I'd like to hear what happened to him recently or over his lifetime to make him do this.

[Rani]

I'd be very cautious before declaring that someone like this is an "animal"

I'd like to hear what happened to him recently or over his lifetime to make him do this.
IMHO it doesn't matter. ANYONE who goes out with the ambition to kill innocent people on purpose is an animal. I'm not a big believer in 'momentary insanity'. Doesn't make a difference now though. I wish all the best to the families and friends of the victims.

[Daniel]

IMHO it doesn't matter. ANYONE who goes out with the ambition to kill innocent people on purpose is an animal. I'm not a big believer in 'momentary insanity'. Doesn't make a difference now though. I wish all the best to the families and friends of the victims.
What if the guy had a mental illness and wasn't given the support he needed?

Labelling someone an "animal" or "demon" as Bob likes to call them is a simple trick to attempt to dehumanise these people and distance ourselves from them.

If you want an animal here's your animal -> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/crossbow-cannibal-remanded-over-prostitute-murders-1985567.html

I prefer to wait and see what pushed this guys button today before branding him.

[BeansBeansBeans]

It's too early to say but it's likely that he has suffered some some of breakdown or mental episode. Rational folk don't do things like this.

I feel very sorry for the victims and their loved ones.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Rest in Peace those who were shot.

Rani, I know your instincts are to say he is an animal and good riddance, but I lost someone to mental illness and there is no rational behaviour that can explain someone committing suicide, or lashing out against society in this matter. The fact is, they will likely find out this guy had mental issues. Most of these killers who go on mass spree's usually do. They are exceedingly rare, and it is rarer till they find a way to take any more lives than one and then their own.

It is part of living in a free society....mental illness effects people and society has no way to just arbitrarily step in and take them off the street often until it is too late.

[Bob Riebe]

What if the guy had a mental illness and wasn't given the support he needed?

Labelling someone an "animal" or "demon" as Bob likes to call them is a simple trick to attempt to dehumanise these people and distance ourselves from them. (Supposed compassion is a farce that makes the "compassionate" supposedly superior to those who address things for what they are.
It does not dehumanize them, it shows their humanity, only humans act like such garbage, animals are above that which is why I never call them animals, it is an insult to animals every where).

If you want an animal here's your animal -> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/crossbow-cannibal-remanded-over-prostitute-murders-1985567.html

I prefer to wait and see what pushed this guys button today before branding him.

There is no excuse, ever to murder people, the gent seems to have been well regarded but his action make him human trash.
Gladly he killed himself and saves the victims survivors having to pay for his trial and prison time.

Your pity for human garbage does nothing for the survivors.

[Alfa Fan]

If he genuinely does have a mental illness then Bob then what you are saying is the equivalent to saying someone who died of a brain tumour is their own fault.

[Bob Riebe]

Rest in Peace those who were shot.

Rani, I know your instincts are to say he is an animal and good riddance, but I lost someone to mental illness and there is no rational behaviour that can explain someone committing suicide, or lashing out against society in this matter. The fact is, they will likely find out this guy had mental issues.(Which makes it not evil-- HOW?) Most of these killers who go on mass spree's usually do. They are exceedingly rare, and it is rarer till they find a way to take any more lives than one and then their own.

It is part of living in a free society....mental illness effects people and society has no way to just arbitrarily step in and take them off the street often until it is too late.

The problem is the liberal cancers that is destorying society does not want to admit that evil exists. It uses "mental illness" and the excuse and tool for throwing blame at what ever or whom ever it chooses.

Committing solo suicide verses murdering others and then committing suicide are not the same thing, in any way.
The former can show lack of self worth, and depression; the latter shows cowardice.

I do not listen to as much news as I used to, due to it being the same yada yada yada over and over, but I am surprised the first I heard of this was on this forum.

[Bob Riebe]

If he genuinely does have a mental illness then Bob then what you are saying is the equivalent to saying someone who died of a brain tumour is their own fault.
Bullsh--.

You are making excuses for murder.

[elis]

This is indeed a tragedy for the families & communities concerned. This beautiful area has had a bad time recently, what with the massive flooding last year with the loss of life, then last month a school bus accident which killed some kids :(

*I do take objection to people calling the man responsible for this crime, an 'animal'. Very few actual animals would indiscriminatly go about slaughtering others for the heck of it.. Animals by & large kill for survival. You do a great disservice to the wide animal kingdom, not to mention being wholey inaccurate with your analogy, when you liken them to the actions of one clearly unstable man. jmo

[Mark]

*I do take objection to people calling the man responsible for this crime, an 'animal'. Very few actual animals would indiscriminatly go about slaughtering others for the heck of it..

True. Cats are one possible exception, they do kill for the 'fun' of it.

[Powered by Cosworth]

The way the world is, i'm surprised it doesn't happen more often.

[AAReagles]

IMHO it doesn't matter. ANYONE who goes out with the ambition to kill innocent people on purpose is an animal. I'm not a big believer in 'momentary insanity'. Doesn't make a difference now though. I wish all the best to the families and friends of the victims.
Agree 110% :up:

If someone is able to dress themselves, feed themselves, operate a vehicle and then proceed to do something like this… then they know what they’re doing. Which is why I don’t buy into the ‘insanity’ escape-clause of accountability, especially when it comes to a murder beef.



... *I do take objection to people calling the man responsible for this crime, an 'animal'. Very few actual animals would indiscriminatly go about slaughtering others for the heck of it.. Animals by & large kill for survival. You do a great disservice to the wide animal kingdom, not to mention being wholey inaccurate with your analogy, when you liken them to the actions of one clearly unstable man. jmo

You do realize of course that his remark was merely an expression that has been used throughout the ages. Political correctness running amok with regards to usage of another’s word(s) is just questionable.

[V12]

I was born and raised in Carlisle an hour or so north of where this took place but my mam and that whole side of the family live in Whitehaven (where the spree started, in public anyway) and I'm usually there 3 or 4 times a year, needless to say I was crapping myself when I saw the news, but was straight on the phone and confirmed no family, extended family or friends were involved.

My dad was quite shook up by it, telling me he spends so much time worrying about me living in Leeds and my sister in London, but as we both agreed, Cumbria is literally the last place (in England anyway) we'd have expected something like this to happen, the scariest thing being unlike murders that have personal or gang-related motives, or the majority anyway, this guy appeared to just pick off people (apart from the first two, I believe) at complete random, could just as easily have been me (if I was visiting) or someone I care about.

Sincere condolences to anyone who has lost anyone or been affected in any way by this :(

[Bob Riebe]

True. Cats are one possible exception, they do kill for the 'fun' of it.
Free running dogs run down and kill other animals, but in both it is a hunting sense, for survival, that cannot be eliminated, but only controlled. This is not the same thing the humans do.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Such a shame that something like this happens at all, but after seeing pictures of Cumbria, it indeed looks like the last place to have something like this happens...

[fandango]

Terrible. I find the insanity thing hard to accept as well, but what makes people do this? Do they just snap? And what makes it happen?

[Mark in Oshawa]

Terrible. I find the insanity thing hard to accept as well, but what makes people do this? Do they just snap? And what makes it happen?

Mental illness. Depression, manic/bi polars with a grudge, or schizophrenics. All three groups can have people go out of their way to do harm to others for various reasons. The problem with a free society is when someone is mentally ill, and their family or society cannot help them, things like this CAN happen. The good news is, it is exceedingly rare, and often these people just do harm to themselves.

[fandango]

Mental illness. Depression, manic/bi polars with a grudge, or schizophrenics. All three groups can have people go out of their way to do harm to others for various reasons. The problem with a free society is when someone is mentally ill, and their family or society cannot help them, things like this CAN happen. The good news is, it is exceedingly rare, and often these people just do harm to themselves.

Is that it? It doesn't seem to be the whole story. I wonder if there's more to it. The reason I wonder is that I've never known it to happen in a Latin country. Is it because the "Latin temperament" as it's called has a shorter fuse? People lose their temper easier and then it's over, so there's less pent up fury. So could society's rules be a factor? It's just a thought...

[Mark in Oshawa]

Is that it? It doesn't seem to be the whole story. I wonder if there's more to it. The reason I wonder is that I've never known it to happen in a Latin country. Is it because the "Latin temperament" as it's called has a shorter fuse? People lose their temper easier and then it's over, so there's less pent up fury. So could society's rules be a factor? It's just a thought...

It is an interesting theory. Maybe Latins handle stress differnetly. Uptight Stiff upper lip societies such as in the UK or Canada or Australia might make this more likely...but I am not a shink or an expert.

I do know that in the cases that I have read about, mental illness is a HUGE factor, and that can strike anyone. I think though in Latin nations maybe society looks out for those not handling things well, and maybe the closer family bonds mean people step in and put a stop to it? Not sure.

What has to be kept in mind is this is NOT the act of a sane person, and it is exceedingly rare for their actions to be seen as rational on any level.

[Bob Riebe]

I do know that in the cases that I have read about, mental illness is a HUGE factor, and that can strike anyone.
Remember this is because some, "expert" says, the person supposedly mentally ill.
These are the same experts that gave us "hate crimes".

[slinkster]

Tragic. I don't think you can ever understand why someone would do this sort of thing. Clearly a disturbed man... particularly to be luring people towards him in order to shoot them... from some of the stories coming out in the newspapers.

Such close timing to the coach accident up there near by a few weeks ago too. :( Awful. My thoughts are with the families right now.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Remember this is because some, "expert" says, the person supposedly mentally ill.
These are the same experts that gave us "hate crimes".

Even a blind squirrel finds nuts Bob. In this case, it isn't some "expert". Read about any of the mass murder spree's and the motivation as stated by the culprit. You don't need to be a genius to understand that not both oars are in the water every time.

Face it, killing people in this matter is not a rational act. This goes back to that killing in Texas A and M all those years ago, the nut job in Tasmania that caused the Aussies to change their gun regs, the wackjob that shot up the McD's in San Diego, or the sick dude who shot up Dunblane and all those children. All of them had mental issues. Rational people don't commit murders in cold blood like this.

[Bob Riebe]

Even a blind squirrel finds nuts Bob. In this case, it isn't some "expert". Read about any of the mass murder spree's and the motivation as stated by the culprit. You don't need to be a genius to understand that not both oars are in the water every time.

Face it, killing people in this matter is not a rational act. This goes back to that killing in Texas A and M all those years ago, the nut job in Tasmania that caused the Aussies to change their gun regs, the wackjob that shot up the McD's in San Diego, or the sick dude who shot up Dunblane and all those children. All of them had mental issues. Rational people don't commit murders in cold blood like this.
The trouble is Mark, what you, or they, are saying is all crime, is caused by "mental Illness", only a nut-job would make a life knowingly breaking laws.

Some probably have a definite hormone imbalance, which would cause odd behaviour. I suppose one could call them truly mentally, or physically sick (in the medical sense), but I have not heard that these called "ill" have had medical test showing their body was nut-job machine.

I am not saying some are not the victims of their parents giving them poorly functioning bodies,( although the mind is supposed to be able to control the body) but the attitude now is to near IMMEDIATELY give them a bye as being "ill."

[Mark in Oshawa]

The trouble is Mark, what you, or they, are saying is all crime, is caused by "mental Illness", only a nut-job would make a life knowingly breaking laws.

Some probably have a definite hormone imbalance, which would cause odd behaviour. I suppose one could call them truly mentally, or physically sick (in the medical sense), but I have not heard that these called "ill" have had medical test showing their body was nut-job machine.

I am not saying some are not the victims of their parents giving them poorly functioning bodies,( although the mind is supposed to be able to control the body) but the attitude now is to near IMMEDIATELY give them a bye as being "ill."

Bob, make no mistake, I am not advocating it to be automatic, nor is it every murder that is mental illness. That said, to kill total strangers while off on some tangent mentally is a unique situation. We may see maybe one of these cases world wide a year. This guy had issues obviously and was bent on revenge. An irrational revenge, and he committed suicide. This wasn't a case of some guy doing this for some personal gain, or to cover up a robbery.

[Mark]

There were being questions asked on the news last night, not by the reporters but a by a very harrowing account by one guy who had sat with a woman and watched her die.
His point was, this guy was a taxi driver, and yet he was legally permitted to own two guns. What need could he have for them?

Even at present if you wish to hold a gun licence in the UK you have to show you have specific need to keep the weapon and you have to reapply every 5 years. It'll be interesting if we can find out what his reason was.

[GridGirl]

The latest theory and possible reason's for this attack is a writing of a will and a possible tax investgation from HMRC. They always say that nothing is certain life but death and taxes but generally the two are not connected. :(

[Mark]

You can perhaps comprehend the thought processes in him killing his brother, killing taxi drivers he may have had issue with and his solicitor.. But it's the random killing of people who just happen to have been passing by.

[Jag_Warrior]

I haven't read anything of this tragedy except for what's in this thread. All I can say is, may the victims rest in peace, and may the families find some comfort.