Ford - What a joke

[Daniel]

What is the deal with Malcolm Wilson and Ford?

Sure they've grabbed a couple of manufacturers titles in recent years due to Citroen not always having a solid second driver but their performance since Gronholm retired has been frigging pitiful. Why doesn't Malcolm stop wasting his time with his also ran son and start doing a proper job with managing his team. I thought Malcolm was pretty silly back in 2003 when they had a killer car yet he got rid of both Colin AND Carlos, both of which could probably have guided that thing to a title but the last season or so just takes the cake..... I'm sure if he'd wanted to he could have had Solberg in a car but instead he seems to persist with Tweedleslow and Tweedlecrash :rolleyes:

Argh, why can no one challenge Seb1 and now Seb2 in the Citroen? :dozey:

I should point out that I have nothing against Ford cars as such, just Malcolm Wilson and his legendary inability to put a driver and car together to win a drivers title

[Bazza2541]

Budgets, old chap, budgets.

Citroen is a full manufacturer backed team with all the resourses that carries with it.
M-Sport are a privateer team with some cash from Ford to call it a 'manufacturer' team.

[Daniel]

Budgets, old chap, budgets.

Citroen is a full manufacturer backed team with all the resourses that carries with it.
M-Sport are a privateer team with some cash from Ford to call it a 'manufacturer' team.
If this be the case then why waste millions on sending your kid out to do some rallies and not do particularly good?

[AndyRAC]

I don't understand the thinking in putting PG in the car for Bulgaria - Tarmac isn't his favourite surface. Unless, it isn't a one-off drive, and he will drive the rest of the year.

[AndyRAC]

If this be the case then why waste millions on sending your kid out to do some rallies and not do particularly good?

It's called building up experience......... ;)

[Bazza2541]

If this be the case then why waste millions on sending your kid out to do some rallies and not do particularly good?

It's Malcolms money, who is to question how he spends it?

[Bazza2541]

I don't understand the thinking in putting PG in the car for Bulgaria - Tarmac isn't his favourite surface. Unless, it isn't a one-off drive, and he will drive the rest of the year.

If you can afford the price, M-Sport will put anyone in a car.

[Maui J.]

I think we can write this year off for Ford. I don't want to voice a personal call on the Ford drivers, but will say the Focus isn't on the same level as the C4.

Malcolm will now be thinking ahead to the new 1.6T WRC car for 2011 and beyond. Hopefully we will see the Fiesta WRCar developed enough to challenge Citroen again on a level playing field.

Also if Citroen is going to play with 3 drivers next year in the DS3, then I feel Ford need to as well so they can put the best combination together for points scoring purposes on the different events.

Of course this once again comes down to money, and who knows what the budget is employing a new driver, co-driver, mechanics, flights, hotels, testing etc.
In may be difficult without the big sponsors digging deep.

[Josti]

Daniel, I think Colin and Carlos became too expensive back in 2002, thus giving younger talents a chance (plus I think Märtin was a pretty damn capable driver, and Duval certaintly had the potential back then).

As for now, I just think the C4 has an edge over the Focus, especially since this year. Hirvonen and Latvala are still very capable drivers. For the Stobart outfit though, there's no excuse, it's just embarrising that Wilson Jr. still has that seat, and I'm always curious what Malcolm really thinks of his performances so far. Adding PG to the team is a plus though, but as others, I'm not sure if Bulgaria is the right rally at that.

As Maui J, I think Ford's season is pretty much over, normally. I do think they'll be much stronger with the Fiesta next year. The S2000 car proves to be a very good base.

[jonas_mcrae]

I thought Daniel was banned... but anyways this is a good thread. Im a ford fan, but this year has just been terrible. The C4 is just up there in every rally and not only the works guys, also Petter and Ogier are making a fantastic job with machinery that in theory is at the same level as the Focus.

I think Malcom already is trying to leave this season behind and focus on the fiesta.

He needs to do something if he wants to rescue the manu title, the good thing is that Ogier is not scoring for Citroen Works. Malcom should bring Duval in place of Latvala to do all the tarmac rallies and give PG a Stobart drive for the rest of the year.

And yes, stop feeding money into Matthew, is a ridiculous situation now, even more with Ogier winning his first rally in his first full season.

[Hartusvuori]

And yes, stop feeding money into Matthew, is a ridiculous situation now, even more with Ogier winning his first rally in his first full season.

Ogier did a full season last year already, but that's no excuse. Seeing Hirvonen and Latvala behind Sordo, Ogier and Solberg on gravel rallies they say they like makes one think that C4 for is really a lot better than Focus right now. And by that I don't mean those three mentioned Citroen drivers wouldn't be on top of their game right now, perhaps not Sordo though.

I know cars are remade pretty much after each event, but can they tire down? It was said that Latvala drove chassis that was used for 11th time for a WRC event (same one which Hirvonen used to win Poland and Greece last year). Hirvonen had same chassis he used to win Finland and Australia last year.

[Carlo]

I think we can write this year off for Ford. I don't want to voice a personal call on the Ford drivers, but will say the Focus isn't on the same level as the C4.

Malcolm will now be thinking ahead to the new 1.6T WRC car for 2011 and beyond. Hopefully we will see the Fiesta WRCar developed enough to challenge Citroen again on a level playing field.

Also if Citroen is going to play with 3 drivers next year in the DS3, then I feel Ford need to as well so they can put the best combination together for points scoring purposes on the different events.

Of course this once again comes down to money, and who knows what the budget is employing a new driver, co-driver, mechanics, flights, hotels, testing etc.
In may be difficult without the big sponsors digging deep.

I think you have summed it up pretty well. Next year is a new car and if we look back to the failures of the Honda F1 car during its final season and look what came out the following year as a new car built to new regs and called a Brawn then maybe Ford could be going down a similar path of not wasting resources on an obsolete formula but doing just enough to meet committments meanwhile thowing their considerable weight and all their efforts in behind the car of the future

[Daniel]

Daniel, I think Colin and Carlos became too expensive back in 2002, thus giving younger talents a chance (plus I think Märtin was a pretty damn capable driver, and Duval certaintly had the potential back then).


Of course and I know this is why Wilson got rid of them but had Wilson kept just one of them on he'd have had the drivers title easily. It seems that Malcolm's interest is always in the slightly distant future and never on making things right for NOW.

There is a fundamental difference which explains what all of you are saying !

M-Sport is in this to make money, period.
Citroen racing is in this to perform and win, period.

As long as Jouhki keeps pumping in the money everytime LATVALA tosses a car and HIRVONEN keeps his mouth shut and says amen to Wilson everything will be fine.

Ahhh, Bosse, how much we miss you...

[Daniel]

I thought Daniel was banned... but anyways this is a good thread. Im a ford fan, but this year has just been terrible. The C4 is just up there in every rally and not only the works guys, also Petter and Ogier are making a fantastic job with machinery that in theory is at the same level as the Focus.

I think Malcom already is trying to leave this season behind and focus on the fiesta.

He needs to do something if he wants to rescue the manu title, the good thing is that Ogier is not scoring for Citroen Works. Malcom should bring Duval in place of Latvala to do all the tarmac rallies and give PG a Stobart drive for the rest of the year.

And yes, stop feeding money into Matthew, is a ridiculous situation now, even more with Ogier winning his first rally in his first full season.

I was, I got banned for speaking out against a guy who was going around and lying in the F1 forum.

You are right that Malcolm has to give up on this year, but he has to really put everything into next year because it's not like other teams aren't going to. All he ever seems to do is give up on one year but then next year things are the same.

Malcolm needs to cut one or both of his top drivers loose, Hirvonen has reached his dismal peak and Latvala is just too damn unpredictable and fragile.

Bazza, of course it's his own money BUT if Malcolm wants to win he needs to make better use of that money.

[RS]

I think Ford's problem is twofold - the C4 really does seem to have the edge now but also Citroen's drivers have made a step forward too (particularly Ogier but also Solberg now that he is in a more up to date car)

I think it's time to forget this year and start a fresh with the Fiesta next year.

What I would really like is if WRC adopted a more IRC style system for it's manufacturer points scoring. That way Citroen would be rewarded properly for it's current excellent performances and Ford might be encouraged to put better drivers in the supporting roles. How much more interesting could this year be for example with Ketomaa and PGA in 'Stobart' instead of Matthew and Henning.

Regarding Matthew, maybe time to give him a different role at M-Sport, maybe encompassing some endurance testing and promotional driving, but nothing more...

[N.O.T]

Everything is wrong at ford at the moment from driver choice, future driver choice and development plan, they keep wilslow wasting away sposnor money for his tourist cravings with bringing nothing back apart from public ridicule.

changing the rules will not change much, maybe at the start the cars are somehow equal but again as time passes the citroen team will again dominate.

[Rallyper]

Every expert here on this topic have a point.

To sum up:

Ford is done this year. MW is building up a team that, with the new Fiesta, might challenge the DS3: s next year.

We don´t know what will happen to PG and Ford. Just that he´s gonna do Bulgaria. (And that gives him more tarmac experience - without any pressure on him)

PG is best value for MW. Fast driver, hungry for full time job in WRC. Maybe not paying but not so much sallary either.

Let´s hope the Fiesta 1,6T is as good as the S2000 version.

[N.O.T]

ketomaa is a better choice although i think both are for the moment not that close to sordo, let alone Loeb, ogier, solberg, latvala as speed s concerned

Also PG is crashing a lot....which is not normal after all these years of experience.

[N.O.T]

and its not about driver, its about the whole planning of the team....Wilson has a team in the verge of being worse than the M2 team of their rivals and he keeps his son driving for no reason, its a disgrace to him, to his team and to the whole rally community.

[RS]

ketomaa is a better choice although i think both are for the moment not that close to sordo, let alone Loeb, ogier, solberg, latvala as speed s concerned

Also PG is crashing a lot....which is not normal after all these years of experience.

On gravel I would think that PG is at least level with Sordo. Don't forget the times he set in Sweden and Jordan with an S2000 car, sometimes quicker than the payboys club WRCar drivers, and also Sweden last year where he set fastest times with an ancient, privately run Fabia WRC.

[Tomi]

After a good Sweden rally Ford has been in a free fall, something fundamental is wrong there, Hirvonen complained that the tyres dont last, if thats true why not hire someone who understand about cars, Bosse, Basti? to sort the suspension problem out, Hirvonen seems not to be the man to do that.

[jens]

I thought Malcolm was pretty silly back in 2003 when they had a killer car yet he got rid of both Colin AND Carlos, both of which could probably have guided that thing to a title but the last season or so just takes the cake.....

He probably would have been wise to try to keep at least one of them, but the 2003 car was too unreliable to realistically win a title in it. Märtin was fighting for wins on many occasions only the car to let him down.

[Tomi]

He probably would have been wise to try to keep at least one of them, but the 2003 car was too unreliable to realistically win a title in it.

In that case Carlos who understand and could set up drivable cars, but Markko did a good job there too, after he got other than just tyre testing, resultwise no change in results really.

After a good Sweden rally Ford has been in a free fall, something fundamental is wrong there, Hirvonen complained that the tyres dont last, if thats true why not hire someone who understand about cars, Bosse, Basti? to sort the suspension problem out, Hirvonen seems not to be the man to do that.

Absolutely right. It's clear hirvonen is only able to drive and nothing else. Also you have to remember The drivers have to work with engineers, who sometimes are over confident about their ideas.
A guy like Bosse will be able to impose his views much better when is needed rather than a young quiet guy like Hirvonen, who may not be respected yet by his engineer(s).

[serial jeff]

I'm hoping Ford will start making overtures to Dani. Especially after this weekend, it's pretty clear that he's not going to be on the Citroen factory team next year.. if Ford get him driving a Fiesta alongside Mikko (or maybe Petter but I doubt it), they'd have a formidable team on any surface.

[N.O.T]

I'm hoping Ford will start making overtures to Dani. Especially after this weekend, it's pretty clear that he's not going to be on the Citroen factory team next year.. if Ford get him driving a Fiesta alongside Mikko (or maybe Petter but I doubt it), they'd have a formidable team on any surface.

citroens 3 car team might ruin that plan....Sordo represents a large car market in spain so i doubt Citroen will let him go like that.

[MJW]

Don't know if its co-incidence or a related issue but Markko Martin has been back testing for Ford and helping set up since Sweden. Yes the same guy Prodrive hired to test and develop S14! Say no more............
Ford need a big shake up, drivers need changing, and the MSport ethos too. Wins or money? At this rate I wouldn't be too shocked to see Ford follow Suzuki, Subaru and all who failed before. And the BP oil spill in USA will be a good excuse.

[Bobcat]

Budgets, old chap, budgets.

Citroen is a full manufacturer backed team with all the resourses that carries with it.
M-Sport are a privateer team with some cash from Ford to call it a 'manufacturer' team.
Brawn GP was a privateer Formula One motor racing team and constructor... WIN!
The team would be rebranded as Mercedes GP (a full manufacturer backed team with all the resourses that carries with it) for 2010 Formula One Season... win a victory? NOT! :)

[Daniel]

Brawn GP was a privateer Formula One motor racing team and constructor... WIN!
The team would be rebranded as Mercedes GP (a full manufacturer backed team with all the resourses that carries with it) for 2010 Formula One Season... win a victory? NOT! :)
Yes but Brawn invested a lot of time, effort and money in 2008 into the 2009 car and it paid off. In 2009 they didn't have the money to put into the 2010 car and the results are easy to see.

[Bobcat]

In 2009 they didn't have the money to put into the 2010 car
You're wrong.
The sponsors that were still with the Honda team at the end of the 2008 season, including Bridgestone, stayed on as sponsors for the start of the 2009 season.

[Daniel]

Yes but they were developing the 2009 car to keep it on top.

[Bobcat]

Yes, it's true, they were developing the 2009/10 car. :)

According to some reports, the arrangement is valued at thirty million Euro each year. Combined with the fifty million the team receives for winning the 2009 championship as Brawn, Mercedes has a budget of eighty million Euro without actually having dedicated anything to the budget themselves.

[MikeD]

I agree with with almost all Daniel's issues, and I also think that N.O.T has a point in that Citroën quickly will restore the supremesy on the new WRC that starts next year. And I bet that when Citroën loses their edge it will be some other manufacturer than Ford winning the WRC titles.

I think that Ford might pull the plug on M-Sport and join the WTCC who looks to be expanded with both Honda, Toyota and Subaru next year (They already have BMW, SEAT and Chevrolet) + plus WTCC will add a round in the US from next year.
WRC seem to suffer with rallies in less attractive countries (from a manufacturer's point of view) like Finland, Bulgaria, Jordan and New Zealand. The Manufacturers want to be in the big markets where they can sell cars via their motorsport image, and countries like the US, Brazil, China and India has a nicer ring to it....

[Wasted Talent]

..... makes one think that C4 for is really a lot better than Focus right now....



I don't know what the reason is but the C4 is definitely faster than the Focus, there is no way that Ogier, Sordo and even possibly Petter are faster on gravel than Hirvonen.

Must be pretty dispiriting for M-Sport and the drivers

WT

[grugsticles]

I skipped reading most of this thread as I got 1/2 way down the first page and just had to say what I thought.

It seems to me that Kaffi has it right:

M-Sport is in this to make money, period.
Citroen racing is in this to perform and win, period. [/]

There lies the problem.
If I were Ford management id be happy with the exposure they get in the WRC. For seemingly little money (compared to Citroen) they get the same exposure to the world. Does it really matter to them that they arnt winning? I bet Ford are selling more cars that Citroen around the world.

MW and M-Sport are doing exactly what Ford ask of them.
Why would MW [i]really try to win the WRC if the credit actually goes to either the driver or the manufacturer, and not he team.
In the eyes of the average motorist, thats how things are. Those real enthusiasts out there may see otherwise but they are a minority of consumers.

I guess, at the end of the day, if there were more manufactures in the championship then M-Sport would have to do more to win so that they had more media coverage and not be left behind.

[Zeakiwi]

Don't know if its co-incidence or a related issue but Markko Martin has been back testing for Ford and helping set up since Sweden. Yes the same guy Prodrive hired to test and develop S14! Say no more............
Ford need a big shake up, drivers need changing, and the MSport ethos too. Wins or money? At this rate I wouldn't be too shocked to see Ford follow Suzuki, Subaru and all who failed before. And the BP oil spill in USA will be a good excuse.

+1
Who else could Ford use as a test driver even on a limited basis ? Galli, Garde, K Erikkson, Lindholm, Panizzi, Delecour, Duval, Kangas, Kytoleto, any of the Brit drivers with WRC miles ... ?

Obviously some where in the suspension, steering, engine torque , brakes, weight distribution etc the Ford is a bit deficient.

[Daniel]

I skipped reading most of this thread as I got 1/2 way down the first page and just had to say what I thought.

It seems to me that Kaffi has it right:

M-Sport is in this to make money, period.
Citroen racing is in this to perform and win, period. [/]

There lies the problem.
If I were Ford management id be happy with the exposure they get in the WRC. For seemingly little money (compared to Citroen) they get the same exposure to the world. Does it really matter to them that they arnt winning? I bet Ford are selling more cars that Citroen around the world.

MW and M-Sport are doing exactly what Ford ask of them.
Why would MW [I]really try to win the WRC if the credit actually goes to either the driver or the manufacturer, and not he team.
In the eyes of the average motorist, thats how things are. Those real enthusiasts out there may see otherwise but they are a minority of consumers.

I guess, at the end of the day, if there were more manufactures in the championship then M-Sport would have to do more to win so that they had more media coverage and not be left behind.

I guess to a certain extent you're right. No matter how badly Ford do at the moment they're finishing 2nd and I suppose you can't complain about that.

But what do we remember? Do we remember manufacturers titles? Or do we remember drivers titles?

http://www.uweb.ucsb.edu/~tlduong/kevinh3.jpg
http://www.subaruimprezacars.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/subaruimprezamcrae.jpg
http://www.rb5.net/images/rb5-bigoval.jpg

These special editions above are all named after drivers

But like you say Ford are finishing 2nd and getting a lot of exposure and Ford can't complain..... Very good point and I must say I do perhaps see more of a point in Ford being in the WRC after reading your post, BUT I still think that MW could be doing a lot better than he is.

While I'm posting pictures of legendary special editions I should also post a picture of the C2 and C4 by Loeb

http://www.topgear.com/uk/assets/cms/a1008990-a1fa-4f91-adf1-c82a1fc07d27/Large%20Image.jpg

What's special and unique about them? The badge on the back........ :rotflmao:

[N.O.T]

indeed its a real shame that citroen doesn't produce a car that makes justice to the best driver of all times.

[JFL]

I don't know what the reason is but the C4 is definitely faster than the Focus, there is no way that Ogier, Sordo and even possibly Petter are faster on gravel than Hirvonen.

Must be pretty dispiriting for M-Sport and the drivers

WT
Really? proof? Mikko has never been a real winner.. Never had the little extra.. Maybe not Dani either, but Ogier and Solberg have that special something.. Hirvonen can't beat Latvala on gravel(exept when Latvala makes a stupid mistake or is a nr 2 driver), never beat Solberg in the same car, and Ogier.. well I have no preference there but, he has proven something..

[jonas_mcrae]

Ford also made a WRC edition of the focus, (last year? or 2008?) http://www.tuningnews.net/news/070613a/ford-focus-wrc-s.jpg it doesnt matter if you win, you can still sell cars by competing. I remember when skoda was on WRC, they never won, but they were by far my favorites because of being the underdogs. Speaking of underdogs I was very close to buying an SX4 once.... silly me

[jonas_mcrae]

Don't know if its co-incidence or a related issue but Markko Martin has been back testing for Ford and helping set up since Sweden. Yes the same guy Prodrive hired to test and develop S14! Say no more............
Ford need a big shake up, drivers need changing, and the MSport ethos too. Wins or money? At this rate I wouldn't be too shocked to see Ford follow Suzuki, Subaru and all who failed before. And the BP oil spill in USA will be a good excuse.

Oh come on the Impreza was already all messed up before Martin tried to fix it, and considering the results for the S12b the S14 was a little bit better

[Rallyper]

This topic has gone off the road! :mad:

You´re not experts when you say MW doesn´t want to win. That is rubbish - nothing else.

We have a situation right now who is not good. But no one can really set the point why, except for N.O.T. and that is not enough to me.

For the time being, waiting for 2011 and 1,6T WRC cars we don´t know where the manufacturers put their efforts. My guess is that Fors (M-sport) already put most of their minds to the new Fiesta 1,6T and that the frogs take the chance and tune up the C4 a bit more - and you have the differnce in speed which makes the finn boys drive to the limit and sometimes over it, too.

This topic has gone off the road! :mad:

You´re not experts when you say MW doesn´t want to win. That is rubbish - nothing else.

We have a situation right now who is not good. But no one can really set the point why, except for N.O.T. and that is not enough to me.

For the time being, waiting for 2011 and 1,6T WRC cars we don´t know where the manufacturers put their efforts. My guess is that Fors (M-sport) already put most of their minds to the new Fiesta 1,6T and that the frogs take the chance and tune up the C4 a bit more - and you have the differnce in speed which makes the finn boys drive to the limit and sometimes over it, too.

You are right, he likes winning. there is no discussion there. But at the end of the day if he can choose between making money and coming third or spending all his money on development and a proper, expensive driver and coming first... well I am pretty sure we have already seen the tendency.

[MJW]

Oh come on the Impreza was already all messed up before Martin tried to fix it, and considering the results for the S12b the S14 was a little bit better
Markko was hired specifically for S14 development - Petter and Chris didnt get to develop it, regardless it was a complete P.O.S!

[serial jeff]

Really? proof? Mikko has never been a real winner.. Never had the little extra.. Maybe not Dani either, but Ogier and Solberg have that special something.. Hirvonen can't beat Latvala on gravel(exept when Latvala makes a stupid mistake or is a nr 2 driver), never beat Solberg in the same car, and Ogier.. well I have no preference there but, he has proven something..

I think there may be some proof in that Solberg picked a 2008 C4 over a 2009 Focus. If I recall correctly, both were available to him last autumn. But he might have just picked the C4 due to personal preference or for its tarmac performance.

[Wasted Talent]

I think there may be some proof in that Solberg picked a 2008 C4 over a 2009 Focus. If I recall correctly, both were available to him last autumn. But he might have just picked the C4 due to personal preference or for its tarmac performance.

Yes, that is a good point.

WT

[maxter]

I remember reading an interview about it where he (Petter) said that not only the car but the whole package with support and all that was taken in consideration when making the decision. It seems he simply got a better deal with Citroen.

But yeah, I can't help thinking that he wouldn't be able to fight at the level he is now in a Focus, sadly.

[Bobcat]

Ford plans WRC fight back in Bulgaria http://www.wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=101&id=8034&desc=Ford+plans+WRC+fight+back+in+Bulgaria

[Brother John]

The biggest joke in WRC is the Citroën C4 cupp ! :o

[Karukera]

The Americans should take over the spill and thank MW for the effort and titles.
Ford and their drivers deserve better than this lame no future daddy-slowson-cash and drive team.
Time is up. :up:

[Daniel]

The biggest joke in WRC is the Citroën C4 cupp ! :o
The biggest joke is your constant whinging about all things French! Cars, drivers and tyres

[I am evil Homer]

Oh come on Daniel it's the only reason Loeb wins all these events...special michelin tyre, special diffs, special Xsara.

Sadly our scandinavian friends can't accept he's simply better - more skill, better co-driver, better pace notes.

The Americans should take over the spill and thank MW for the effort and titles.
Ford and their drivers deserve better than this lame no future daddy-slowson-cash and drive team.
Time is up. :up:

I agree with you and I think Ford would have already done that if they could have but they can't. It would cost too much.

The little worldwide publicity that M-Sport makes for them is there. No question, and they get it at very low price.

People would be surprised at how small is the FORD sponsoring for M-Sport. It is so low, in fact, that the FORD EUROPE execs have absolutely no say whatsoever in driver choice.

Normally FORD should be able to say to M-Sport : "hey in a couple years we want an english an a german driver in the car because that is where we sell cars so, Malcolm, please start taking care of that now..."

Instead the money has gone into putting two Finns!
One Finn would be ok if he is good and has charisma like Bosse, but why those two who are nowhere close to the star Bosse is ?

Look at Citroen, they develop and support young drivers who come from countries where they have important markets like france and Spain. Logical.

M-sport officially "develops and supports" young drivers who come from.....Finland which has a population half of Belgium. Why don't they develop a talented brit ? Some people know the answer to that.

The unofficial reason is that a manager, has been pumping millions of Euros into M Wilson's pocket to "secure and develop" these drivers who came from nothing straight in a top car in 2003. Now, 7 years later these two guys are still struggling to stay on the road while Ogier is already better after touching a WRC car for first time in end of 2008.

In marketting language, how can a car maker like FORD be content with such a driver lineup ? I would have demanded P SOLBERG immediately !!

Bottom line is M Wilson runs the ship, not FORD.

[Hartusvuori]

Sadly our scandinavian friends can't accept he's simply better - more skill, better co-driver, better pace notes.

I can accept he's simply better. After six titles what else could I say. But is he the best rally driver ever, that is something not measured in titles.

Reading this thread and others like this, Ford however seems to motivate people more. There are a lot of bashing but also hope and demand that Ford would up their game. Why isn't there any Citroen glorification threads? Okey - they can do it themselves. Or is this because rally fans in general likes underdogs (resemblance to their own lives perhaps...) and an odd win here and there is enough, or do we hope Ford to step up only to make the series more interesting.

Perhaps this forum doesn't portrait rally fans properly at all, we are the loud minority, and the way the audience behaves at the actual events keeps the teams happy. Why don't we make t-shirts or flags with familiar slogans from the forum like "Ford - what a joke!", "Hirvonen -wake the f*** up!", "So much for a 5-year plan, Malcolm!" and show up at the service area and see what they think. Instead of buying their merchandise.

One more thing about Loeb that bothers me right now. He's been to WRC for years, but I still don't know much of who he is. If someone could point me to in-depth interviews (English), I'd appreciate. All I've got to know from him is from his English interviews, and in spelling contests he doesn't take titles. Is there any profile dvd's made from him yet - French, but with English subtitles?

[Karukera]

Oh come on Daniel it's the only reason Loeb wins all these events...special michelin tyre, special diffs, special Xsara.

Sadly our scandinavian friends can't accept he's simply better - more skill, better co-driver, better pace notes.


He isn't Scandinavian, fortunately, and it's easy to tell.

Scandinavian and Baltic members of this forum are million times marter than him and come with constructive posts, unlike him.

Fact is he's flemish from Belgium. Draw your own conclusions...

I just ignore him and skip his silly messages.

[amilk]

I agree with you and I think Ford would have already done that if they could have but they can't. It would cost too much.

The little worldwide publicity that M-Sport makes for them is there. No question, and they get it at very low price.

People would be surprised at how small is the FORD sponsoring for M-Sport. It is so low, in fact, that the FORD EUROPE execs have absolutely no say whatsoever in driver choice.

Normally FORD should be able to say to M-Sport : "hey in a couple years we want an english an a german driver in the car because that is where we sell cars so, Malcolm, please start taking care of that now..."

Instead the money has gone into putting two Finns!
One Finn would be ok if he is good and has charisma like Bosse, but why those two who are nowhere close to the star Bosse is ?

Look at Citroen, they develop and support young drivers who come from countries where they have important markets like france and Spain. Logical.

M-sport officially "develops and supports" young drivers who come from.....Finland which has a population half of Belgium. Why don't they develop a talented brit ? Some people know the answer to that.

The unofficial reason is that a manager, has been pumping millions of Euros into M Wilson's pocket to "secure and develop" these drivers who came from nothing straight in a top car in 2003. Now, 7 years later these two guys are still struggling to stay on the road while Ogier is already better after touching a WRC car for first time in end of 2008.

In marketting language, how can a car maker like FORD be content with such a driver lineup ? I would have demanded P SOLBERG immediately !!

Bottom line is M Wilson runs the ship, not FORD.


Fully agree what you wrote. I hope MW feels the pressure and make a step forward in driver line up and hopefully not think that Fiesta will solve all the problems netx year. First step good - PG in Focus but don't know if it is between Henning and PG or something done by MW also in this story.

[Mintexmemory]

Fully agree what you wrote. I hope MW feels the pressure and make a step forward in driver line up and hopefully not think that Fiesta will solve all the problems netx year. First step good - PG in Focus but don't know if it is between Henning and PG or something done by MW also in this story.

Clearly the Stobart manufacturer team running the second string Focus are not going to be any help to the main Ford team in preventing Citroen and Citroen Junior taking 1st and 2nd in the manufacturers championship. Better then that Henning gets used to Fiesta handling and someone worth developing gets some top of the field experience. However, young MW better look out if it happens as this will throw a spotlight on the level of his development :cool: Of course, this assumes that a farsighted strategist can recover some use from a season that is rapidly going down the crapper

[AndyRAC]

I can see the advantages for Ford - don't put a lot of cash in, but if successful you reap the benefits. Big smiles all around, especially from the top brass. However, if they don't win, they haven't invested huge sums, so it's not a disaster.
Maybe if the were 'properly' funded by Ford, they may be able to have drivers who don't pay- and I include Stobart in this.

[Rallyper]

I think MW reads this forum. We have for sometime mentioned PG as the complement Ford urgently need.

“It’ll be interesting to see what he makes of it,” said Wilson. “I think a few people have been watching him for a while. We’ve certainly always been aware of him.”

MW will put some pressure on PG to see what he can do on tarmac. Exciting.

And I am swede and think Loeb is one of the best WRC drivers. But there have been many more of his class during the years. Apart from that he has had a good team behind him and wouldn´t have won in an SX4 for example...

[N.O.T]

I think MW reads this forum. We have for sometime mentioned PG as the complement Ford urgently need.

“It’ll be interesting to see what he makes of it,” said Wilson. “I think a few people have been watching him for a while. We’ve certainly always been aware of him.”

MW will put some pressure on PG to see what he can do on tarmac. Exciting.

And I am swede and think Loeb is one of the best WRC drivers. But there have been many more of his class during the years. Apart from that he has had a good team behind him and wouldn´t have won in an SX4 for example...

and what did the so many others achieved ? last time i checked some of the many others where in citorens as well as Loeb and in teams with good/winning cars

another bitter boy with Loebs/citroens success...

yes he wouldn;t be a winner riding a bicycle as well....

[bowler]

There was always going to be a messy year when the engine/car formula was changing.

With new cars coming in 2011 the amount of expenditure/investment in 2010 was always going to diminish.

Citroen went into 2010 with a better car/driver/team package and nothing will change in 2010.

What 2011 will bring will be uncertain until we get to see some of the cars.

M Sport will be looking to sell WRC cars into a market that may not exist so that they can fund their 2011 and 2012 campaigns.

On that basis look for some special deals and special cars in the market place.

Every previous formula change has had similar results until equilibrium is found again.

[BLOCKROCKS43]

http://www.radcollector.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/MWRT_KB_FIESTA_2.jpg Subaru owns rally i love Subaru but this is a sick fiesta KEN BLOCK

[BLOCKROCKS43]

i love Subaru but this is an awesome fiesta :eek: http://www.radcollector.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/MWRT_KB_FIESTA_2.jpg

[BOZIANracing]

the point about jouhki pumping millions into MW's back pocket makes sense when you think about it! if money wasnt the priority for m sport, i'd love to see P Solberg and Kris Meeke in the works team next year,with PG and Ketomaa (?) for Stobart..give those pesky frogs something to worry about :L

seriously though, its sad when a manufacturer like ford (whose commitment to participating in the WRC is second to none) has a 'meh' attitude towards results,or so it would seem... I miss rallying

[Bobcat]

Oh come on Daniel it's the only reason Loeb wins all these events...special michelin tyre, special diffs, special Xsara.

Sadly our scandinavian friends can't accept he's simply better - more skill, better co-driver, better pace notes.
...better, better, simply better... and their better cash and their better French FIA. :mark:

http://www.motorline.cc/rallye/index.php/article=157076/=Rallye_-_Rallye-WM__Portugal_-_Wir_brauchen_einen_starken_dritten_Piloten.htm

Lässt sich abschätzen wie weit die Entwicklung bei Citroen ist?

Nun, die haben sehr früh mit dem Programm gestartet, noch im Vorjahr wo noch nicht einmal die Eckdaten des Reglements gestanden sind, die haben einfach riskiert. Und Citroen testet unglaublich viel, zwei Wochen pro Monat.

Dort gibt es einfach mehr Geld, mehr Ressourcen und so weiter. Dafür sind wir als kleinere Firma deutlich flexibler und auch schneller in der Umsetzung. Wir haben mit dem neuen Focus auf Anhieb die WM gewonnen, Citroen hat den C4 drei Jahre lang entwickelt bevor er gelauncht wurde.

[BLOCKROCKS43]

Subaru is the king of rally but I don't mind Ford I love some of the rally fiestas the are awesome

[Langdale Forest]

The only bad thing about Ford is Matthew Wilslow, he is a discrace and he knows it, Wilson Snr knows it, Ford knows it, in fact everybody knows what a discrace he is, a true future useless nobody....

He has all the gear but NO IDEA

I don;t think it will be long before his dad kicks him out of the team....

The only bad thing about Ford is Matthew Wilslow, he is a discrace and he knows it, Wilson Snr knows it, Ford knows it, in fact everybody knows what a discrace he is, a true future useless nobody....

He has all the gear but NO IDEA

I don;t think it will be long before his dad kicks him out of the team....

Wait, you can't say that yet... wait until the 5 year plan is over... :D

I think you are right about him being kicked out soon. Although perhaps it will done in a very gentle way, kinda of out of the small door around the back kind of way.

Noticed how his usual propaganda press releases talking about the learning etc.. have diminished recently ?

You know what they say: no news, good news ! :rolleyes:

[jonas_mcrae]

Subaru is the king of rally but I don't mind Ford I love some of the rally fiestas the are awesome

Dont know if you're going far in this forum with that nickname my friend...

[janvanvurpa]

Dont know if you're going far in this forum with that nickname my friend...


Come on he's maybe 12 or 14, give him a break.
He's just nominated Blockie-boys co-driver Alex Gemsomino to the Rally Hall of Fame on that other thread....

Rememeber in the USA people are told all the time that the "sharp end of the stick" drivers are as fast as any in the world elite,
Seriously, people believe the guys in the little 20-23 entry "Rally America Championship", where the difference on single stages is measured in many minutes, are as good as WRC elite...*

They see it on the Intra-webz, so it must be true.


*and if you point out the fact that Blockie-boy has flipped on either SS1, SS2 or SS 4 now, or that Pat Richard from canada was massively mid-pack of all GpN enteries in his ill-fated season, then you're called a "Hater".