Mosque being built near Ground Zero?

[chuck34]

From Charlie Brooker's article;


The more I read about this, the more it sounds like a lot of hot-air designed to whip up a bit of election-year frenzy. I read the other day the guy who's bankrolling has been sent round the world by the US Government (both Bush and Obama administrations) on inter-faith 'goodwill' trips designed to show the US isn't hostile towards Muslims..

That brings up another point. Why the h-e-double hockey sticks are my tax dollars being used to send ANYONE on round the world "goodwill" trips? That is just plain stupid. And I don't care if it's this guy my pastor, a rabbi or anyone else. It's just a waste of money that we don't have.

[Eki]

Is that really that hard to grasp? Is it so hard to see why this might be offensive to some people?
Yes, a bunch of foreign terrorists destroy skyscrapers and because of that American Muslims are forbidden to build a Mosque near the place. The connection is really hard to see. They are about as related to each other as me and the 30 years war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years'_War#Casualties_and_disease



So great was the devastation brought about by the war that estimates put the reduction of population in the German states at about 15% to 30%.[49] Some regions were affected much more than others.[50] For example, Württemberg lost three-quarters of its population during the war.[51] In the territory of Brandenburg, the losses had amounted to half, while in some areas an estimated two-thirds of the population died.[52] The male population of the German states was reduced by almost half.[53] The population of the Czech lands declined by a third due to war, disease, famine and the expulsion of Protestant Czechs.[54][55] Much of the destruction of civilian lives and property was caused by the cruelty and greed of mercenary soldiers, many of whom were rich commanders and poor soldiers.[56] Villages were especially easy prey to the marauding armies. Those that survived, like the small village of Drais near Mainz would take almost a hundred years to recover. The Swedish armies alone may have destroyed up to 2,000 castles, 18,000 villages and 1,500 towns in Germany, one-third of all German towns.[57] The war caused serious dislocations to both the economies and populations of central Europe, but may have done no more than seriously exacerbate changes that had begun earlier.[58][59]

[chuck34]

Yes, a bunch of foreign terrorists destroy skyscrapers and because of that American Muslims are forbidden to build a Mosque near the place. The connection is really hard to see. They are about as related to each other as me and the 30 years war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years'_War#Casualties_and_disease

Do you get paid by wikipedia for the number of times you link to them? You are pretty much beyond being tiresome now. Just stop.

[Eki]

Do you get paid by wikipedia for the number of times you link to them? You are pretty much beyond being tiresome now. Just stop.
But the 30 years war was really terrible for the Germans. It's a wonder they don't still hate me.

[chuck34]

But the 30 years war was really terrible for the Germans. It's a wonder they don't still hate me.

You are a special kind of dense. I'm not sure why I keep feeding the troll.

[Tomi]

btw. why is the place called ground zero, who's idea? Sounds a bit like from an Austin Powers movie.

[Garry Walker]

Yes, a bunch of foreign terrorists destroy skyscrapers and because of that American Muslims are forbidden to build a Mosque near the place. The connection is really hard to see.


Only if you are mentally retarded and have an IQ below 10.


So I am not surprised you are not able to see the connection.

[Eki]

Only if you are mentally retarded and have an IQ below 10.


So I am not surprised you are not able to see the connection.
Actually, only people with an IQ below 10 believe American/NYC Muslims were behind the 9/11 attacks. So I'm not surprised that you're one of those.

[Garry Walker]

Actually, only people with an IQ below 10 believe American/NYC Muslims were behind the 9/11 attacks. So I'm not surprised that you're one of those.

I will not enter into a discussion with nobody like you, because
1) you are too stupid to comprehend anything anyway
2) My time is valueable, whereas yours is not. Obviously I will not waste my time on you.
3) you are too stupid to comprehend anything anyway (I am repeating this, because you probably need it told twice).

[Robinho]

For the third time ... How about somewhere that the debris did not land. Is that so offensive? Is that really that hard to grasp? Is it so hard to see why this might be offensive to some people?

no, thats quite clear actually, but does this exclusion zone extend to all other faiths also, and if not can you see why that might be offensive to some people

[Eki]

I will not enter into a discussion with nobody like you, because
1) you are too stupid to comprehend anything anyway
2) My time is valueable, whereas yours is not. Obviously I will not waste my time on you.
3) you are too stupid to comprehend anything anyway (I am repeating this, because you probably need it told twice).
Repeating? I thought you weren't discussing with me, and yet you're not only discussing but even repeating yourself, which takes even more time. Hard to believe you have something more "valuable" to do.

Luckily I'm not wasting much of my time with you, because I'm multitasking. I drink beer, watch TV and throw insults your way all at the same time.

[gloomyDAY]

Yes, a bunch of foreign terrorists destroy skyscrapers and because of that American Muslims are forbidden to build a Mosque near the place. The connection is really hard to see.It's difficult for you to grasp because an incident like 9/11 didn't happen in Finland.

I think you'd have a different opinion and you'd feel just as I do if such a thing happened.

I've already stated how the religion of Islam is connected to the 9/11 attacks on the first page.
You probably disagree, but I'm just giving you my unwavering point of view.

[Eki]

It's difficult for you to grasp because an incident like 9/11 didn't happen in Finland.

I think you'd have a different opinion and you'd feel just as I do if such a thing happened.

I've already stated how the religion of Islam is connected to the 9/11 attacks on the first page.
You probably disagree, but I'm just giving you my unwavering point of view.
The 9/11 attacks happened because of what the US has been doing in the Middle East within the last 65 years and their support to Israel. The only thing it has got to do with Islam is that the Jews in Israel don't get along with their Muslim neighbors and that the US has military troops in Saudi Arabia near places considered holy by Muslims.

If the US agreed to withdraw its troops from the Middle East, maybe the Muslims agreed to withdraw their Mosque from Manhattan?

[Brown, Jon Brow]

It's difficult for you to grasp because an incident like 9/11 didn't happen in Finland.

I think you'd have a different opinion and you'd feel just as I do if such a thing happened.

I've already stated how the religion of Islam is connected to the 9/11 attacks on the first page.
You probably disagree, but I'm just giving you my unwavering point of view.

The attitude of some Americans makes you think that they are the only ever country that has suffered a terrorist attack.

[janvanvurpa]

It's difficult for you to grasp because an incident like 9/11 didn't happen in Finland.

I think you'd have a different opinion and you'd feel just as I do if such a thing happened.

I've already stated how the religion of Islam is connected to the 9/11 attacks on the first page.
You probably disagree, but I'm just giving you my unwavering point of view.

Kid, in living memorty the finns were attacked by Soviet Union, a country with nearly 45 times the population they had. They fought them to a negotiated armistice but lost 20% of their land and their second largest industrial city Viborg. So In close concert with but not contractually allies with Germany, Finland tried to take back what they had lost--and then went crazy and tried to bite off more---and lost again and only by the hugest of sacrifices retained their territorial integrity.
They lost 96,000 men killed battle, hundreds of thousands more wounded from a population of just 3 million---1/3 of what USA lost in the War worldwide.
They know what a terror attack is....

[Drew]

I'm not sure if this has been said before, because I don't want to read 7 pages of pretty much the same thing over and over again. But, if ground zero is to be rebuilt bigger and better than before, wouldn't a mosque safeguard against attack from islamic terrorists? Think about it, not even they would bomb a mosque.

But having said that, I can 100% understand why the American public at large is against these plans. I don't really think anybody outside the USA could fully understand the effect that 9/11 had on the average American. Sure the UK has suffered various terrorist attacks, but none ever as big as 9/11. Plus we have a complete different mentality. Americans were mourning 9/11 for weeks and months after and still do. I'm pretty certain a 9/11 joke wouldn't go down well over there. However, in the UK after 7/7 people started to tell jokes about it right away.

[Easy Drifter]

So Eki you believe that the fact the US (along with many other countries) supports Israel, a legally constituted Country and has troops in a legally constituted Muslim Country by invitation is justification for Islamic terrorists to murder thousands of innocent civilians?

[gloomyDAY]

The 9/11 attacks happened because of what the US has been doing in the Middle East within the last 65 years and their support to Israel. The only thing it has got to do with Islam is that the Jews in Israel don't get along with their Muslim neighbors and that the US has military troops in Saudi Arabia near places considered holy by Muslims.

If the US agreed to withdraw its troops from the Middle East, maybe the Muslims agreed to withdraw their Mosque from Manhattan?Making excuses for terrorists? I think that's quite naive of you to think that terrorists would change their opinion of America regardless of what it did.


The attitude of some Americans makes you think that they are the only ever country that has suffered a terrorist attack.Maybe it's because you don't care enough.


Kid :dozey: , in living memorty the finns were attacked by Soviet Union, a country with nearly 45 times the population they had. They fought them to a negotiated armistice but lost 20% of their land and their second largest industrial city Viborg. So In close concert with but not contractually allies with Germany, Finland tried to take back what they had lost--and then went crazy and tried to bite off more---and lost again and only by the hugest of sacrifices retained their territorial integrity.
They lost 96,000 men killed battle, hundreds of thousands more wounded from a population of just 3 million---1/3 of what USA lost in the War worldwide.
They know what a terror attack is....Quit sidetracking this thread. We're talking about an unprovoked attack by a group of Muslims as opposed to an entire Soviet army declaring war on another nation. There is a degree of difference, is there not?

Also, I may be younger than you, but I am the future. I am entitled to my opinion without having to be degraded by others. I've never made such condescending comments towards you.


I'm not sure if this has been said before, because I don't want to read 7 pages of pretty much the same thing over and over again. But, if ground zero is to be rebuilt bigger and better than before, wouldn't a mosque safeguard against attack from islamic terrorists? Think about it, not even they would bomb a mosque.

But having said that, I can 100% understand why the American public at large is against these plans. I don't really think anybody outside the USA could fully understand the effect that 9/11 had on the average American. Sure the UK has suffered various terrorist attacks, but none ever as big as 9/11. Plus we have a complete different mentality. Americans were mourning 9/11 for weeks and months after and still do. I'm pretty certain a 9/11 joke wouldn't go down well over there. However, in the UK after 7/7 people started to tell jokes about it right away.Bingo! :up:

[anthonyvop]

Kid, in living memorty the finns were attacked by Soviet Union, a country with nearly 45 times the population they had. They fought them to a negotiated armistice but lost 20% of their land and their second largest industrial city Viborg. So In close concert with but not contractually allies with Germany, Finland tried to take back what they had lost--and then went crazy and tried to bite off more---and lost again and only by the hugest of sacrifices retained their territorial integrity.
They lost 96,000 men killed battle, hundreds of thousands more wounded from a population of just 3 million---1/3 of what USA lost in the War worldwide.
They know what a terror attack is....

They have no clue what a terrorist attack is.
They do know what it is like to back the wrong side and have it bite them in the ass.

[Eki]

So Eki you believe that the fact the US (along with many other countries) supports Israel, a legally constituted Country and has troops in a legally constituted Muslim Country by invitation is justification for Islamic terrorists to murder thousands of innocent civilians?
I didn't talk anything about justification, I talked about a motive. It's like if I said money was a motive for a murder, I don't mean the murder was justified.

[Eki]

They have no clue what a terrorist attack is.
They do know what it is like to back the wrong side and have it bite them in the ass.
You think we should have backed the Soviets? It's quite funny to hear that from you, considering I thought you were an anti-communist. The Baltic countries yielded for the Soviet demands without a war, you can read their history to see what happened to them.

Besides, we weren't backing anyone when the Soviet Union invaded in 1939.

Obviously the US is backing the wrong side when it's backing Israel in the Middle East.

[Easy Drifter]

Justification or motive, you are playing word games. But to go along with you do you think the US, and many other countries backing Israel and Saudi Arabia inviting the US to send troops to help defend them is sufficient motive to murder thousands of innocent civilians?
It certainly is not obvious to me and to a good many other people, including the leaders of many countries, that backing Israel against terrorists is the wrong thing to do.
On the other hand I believe backing terrorist murderers is the wrong thing to do.
That also includes Roman Catholic priests.

[Mark in Oshawa]

The 9/11 attacks happened because of what the US has been doing in the Middle East within the last 65 years and their support to Israel. The only thing it has got to do with Islam is that the Jews in Israel don't get along with their Muslim neighbors and that the US has military troops in Saudi Arabia near places considered holy by Muslims.

If the US agreed to withdraw its troops from the Middle East, maybe the Muslims agreed to withdraw their Mosque from Manhattan?

Eki, so this is the justification? let me get this clear now....America is wearing the short skirt, so that gives Radical Islam a reason to rape and kill her?

Last time I looked Eki, you have a blind side to dictators, killers and thugs...and yes..I come to this thread after a few days away, and again, there you are....defending terrorists and their actions.

The US leaves the Middle East tomorrow, it is still a pest hole to most civilized people in about 5years because too many people in charge there have kept it that way.....

Bin Laden would be doing the poor and innocent Muslims who need freedom a favour if he sent his terrorists in to Riyadh and take out the Saudi Royal Family....but alas..he is fighting some war against America. I am still waiting to see how all of this helps the Palenstinians, the people who fellow Arabs have treated worse than the Israeli's..but that is ok..I am sure you will have a Wiki link somewhere Eki...

[Mark in Oshawa]

Kid, in living memorty the finns were attacked by Soviet Union, a country with nearly 45 times the population they had. They fought them to a negotiated armistice but lost 20% of their land and their second largest industrial city Viborg. So In close concert with but not contractually allies with Germany, Finland tried to take back what they had lost--and then went crazy and tried to bite off more---and lost again and only by the hugest of sacrifices retained their territorial integrity.
They lost 96,000 men killed battle, hundreds of thousands more wounded from a population of just 3 million---1/3 of what USA lost in the War worldwide.
They know what a terror attack is....

I agree with you on this Jan..but Eki in particular doesn't seem to grasp the effect of 9/11 on most Americans. I am sure you are of the opinion they are all nuts, since you approve of the Mosque. The thing is you are at least an American... but for a Finn to dictate to an American what he must feel about a tragedy on his home soil is a bit rich.....It isn't the Finn's that lived through that without any perspective to match it to.

I would say if the Mosque is so important, let them move it at least around the corner from the debris field, but as I said before, even if I liked this idea, I doubt highly anyone will build it. The construction unions of NY I believe were coming out publically against it..and nothing goes up in NYC without union steel workers and union construction workers...NOTHING...so good luck with that...

[Camelopard]

Eki, so this is the justification? let me get this clear now....America is wearing the short skirt, so that gives Radical Islam a reason to rape and kill her?

Last time I looked Eki, you have a blind side to dictators, killers and thugs...and yes..I come to this thread after a few days away, and again, there you are....defending terrorists and their actions............


As usual you have it wrong, Eki is NOT justifying NOR is he defending terrorists and their actions. You and your cohort are constantly putting words in his mouth to suit what you want to hear.

Eki is stating that he can see and perhaps understand why 9/11 happened, he has never ever stated his support for it or any other form of terrorism, this 'understanding' and the 'supporting' are two very very different things.

Do a search on all of his threads and find where Eki has ever said that he supports terrorists or terrorism.........................



I think you will find the only person on this forum who has shown open admiration even adoration for a convicted murdering, terrorist piece of scum is your mate vopie.



I may be wrong but I can't recall seeing any criticism of vopie and his support for this convicted murdering terrorist scum by you, or e.d. or most the other North American posters on this forum.

You are all however, very quick to jump up and down on Eki........................ ho hum...................

[Mark in Oshawa]

As usual you have it wrong, Eki is NOT justifying NOR is he defending terrorists and their actions. You and your cohort are constantly putting words in his mouth to suit what you want to hear.

Eki is stating that he can see and perhaps understand why 9/11 happened, he has never ever stated his support for it or any other form of terrorism, this 'understanding' and the 'supporting' are two very very different things.

Do a search on all of his threads and find where Eki has ever said that he supports terrorists or terrorism...........

I think you will find the only person on this forum who has shown open admiration even adoration for a convicted murdering, terrorist piece of scum is your mate vopie.


Vopie aint my mate man....

Eki can point all this crap out all he likes....and I understand what you think he is saying..but For him to constantly bring it up as if this justifies it without context is BS and you and I both know it.

I don't live in a vacuum. I heard what Bin Laden stated as his goals for why he did what he did. I think it is all crap, all nonsense and he is a criminal who should be exterminated like the vermin he is, like all terrorists who attack modern democratic pluralistic states.

That said, I don't have time for most terrorists, including the one you love to bait Vop with....I have never once stated any support for that criminal either....

So don't lump me in his camp...lump me in the camp that respects the rule of law, and respects the modern democratic state as is practiced in Europe and North American and any place else (Australia, New Zealand, Isreal, Japan, South Korea). They may not be perfect, but in most cases, the people of all those nations are no different than you or I, and don't deserve to be targets of some religion crazed zealot who wants to make this the 13th century again....

Terrorism never works if your goal is peace. Funny, no one in the Middle East has really gotten their heads around that concept...

[Eki]

Justification or motive, you are playing word games. But to go along with you do you think the US, and many other countries backing Israel and Saudi Arabia inviting the US to send troops to help defend them is sufficient motive to murder thousands of innocent civilians?
It certainly is not obvious to me and to a good many other people, including the leaders of many countries, that backing Israel against terrorists is the wrong thing to do.
On the other hand I believe backing terrorist murderers is the wrong thing to do.
That also includes Roman Catholic priests.
You are playing word games. You aren't labeling the Zionist political violence that preceded Israel as terrorism, therefore you can defend it with clean conscience and consider it justified. Someone else could call it terrorism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_political_violence


Zionist political violence refers to acts of violence committed by Zionists for political reasons, most famously to advance the creation and later protection of a Jewish state in Palestine. Actions were carried out in the British Mandate of Palestine by individuals and Jewish paramilitary groups such as the Haganah, the Irgun, the Lehi and the Palmah as part of a conflict between Zionists and the British and Arabs, about land, immigration, and national aspirations.[1]
British soldiers and officials, United Nations personnel, Palestinian Arab fighters and civilians, and Jewish fighters and civilians[2] were targets or victims of these actions. Domestic, commercial, and government property, infrastructure, and material were also attacked.

[Easy Drifter]

Yes, Eki that was terrorism.
But Israel is a legal democratic country now and is supported by the vast majority of democratic people.
Support for Israel does not justify or provide a legitimate motive for murdering thousands of innocent people in a democratic country. These murders have struck in other counties besides the US and Israel and murdered many people.
The RCMP in Ottawa just broke up another terrorist Islamic group and have made arrests.
The so called Toronto 18 Islamic group planned to blow up the CN Tower and among other things behead our democratically elected Prime Minister. Again our police caught them in time. Many innocent people would have died if they had succeeded.
Note I am not blaming most people of the Muslim faith but just Islamic extremists.

[Eki]

Yes, Eki that was terrorism.
But Israel is a legal democratic country now and is supported by the vast majority of democratic people.
Support for Israel does not justify or provide a legitimate motive for murdering thousands of innocent people in a democratic country. These murders have struck in other counties besides the US and Israel and murdered many people.
The RCMP in Ottawa just broke up another terrorist Islamic group and have made arrests.
The so called Toronto 18 Islamic group planned to blow up the CN Tower and among other things behead our democratically elected Prime Minister. Again our police caught them in time. Many innocent people would have died if they had succeeded.
Note I am not blaming most people of the Muslim faith but just Islamic extremists.
The Islamic terrorism is continuation from the Zionist terrorism. It's basically the same, except the table has turned and the Islamics are now fighting about land, immigration, and national aspirations instead of the Zionists to advance the creation and later protection of an Islamic state in Palestine and/or elsewhere in the Middle East.

[Camelopard]

...............So don't lump me in his camp...lump me in the camp that respects the rule of law, and respects the modern democratic state as is practiced in...........................



You may not live in a vacuum, but you certainly have a very narrow minded view of what it is like out in the 'real' world away from your very comfortable life in N.A. and your golfing holidays in Hawaii..............


As I have said before, most people in the 'third world' could not care less about your version/view of democracy, they are far too busy just trying to survive............

[Easy Drifter]

Dodge and weave Eki.
You are still supporting murderers.

[Eki]

Dodge and weave Eki.
You are still supporting murderers.

And you are supporting Zionist political violence.

[janvanvurpa]

I agree with you on this Jan..but Eki in particular doesn't seem to grasp the effect of 9/11 on most Americans. I am sure you are of the opinion they are all nuts, since you approve of the Mosque. The thing is you are at least an American... but for a Finn to dictate to an American what he must feel about a tragedy on his home soil is a bit rich.....It isn't the Finn's that lived through that without any perspective to match it to.

I would say if the Mosque is so important, let them move it at least around the corner from the debris field, but as I said before, even if I liked this idea, I doubt highly anyone will build it. The construction unions of NY I believe were coming out publically against it..and nothing goes up in NYC without union steel workers and union construction workers...NOTHING...so good luck with that...

The "effect" was a shock, a HUGE emotional shock and what Eki probably can't begin to conceive, since he is literate and educated and reads constantly, is mentally active, knows his own and his countrys' history, is just how shocking to the psyche 9/11 must be to people who lived totally self centered, insular, il-or semi-literate, superficial, consumerist lives who'se only knowledge of the rest of the country---much less the rest of the world, has come via bad TV, blockbuster Summer movies or the "Hutu Voices on the Talk Radio"
About half the country or more in other words.
I'm gonna bet 5 penni that Eki really doesn't understand how the majority of Americans are just like the boy above : that they are unable to conceive[/i][/b] that [b]OTHER people in other places may have a similar range of emotional experiences and responses, may have a near mystical love of place where they come from, may be proud of the military accomplishments of their country---and and are probably very aware of the crushing defeats their military inevitably suffered--which they mythologize just as we do---and this cast in concrete --inseparable from the American character inability to "grant" others the "right' to have these same set of emotions as we have is a major reason why my country finds themselves in continual conflict worldwide---and why "we" are so puzzled about the 'rest" of the world.

That's what is behind LA kids comments---but if he had an imagination enough to think a bit about others he see that a terrible attack by cold calculating, determined killers cost 3000 lives in a country of 300,000,000,
and then he might ponder the mental shock in a country of 3,000,000 when they lost 96,000.
The number of/numbers total ARE important, it goes to the degree of shock any particular person in a particular group might feel "effected" by a catastrophe.

So to get an idea multiply Finlands losses by 100. Those losses are still in the public consciousness, still are made TV series and movies and plays on stage remembering, examining and trying to make sense of their war FAR more than this country or your country remembers that war.

But whatever they speak some other highly beeeeee-zaaarre language that even after 8 years working with those guys I could only learn to swear and to count to 3 so they couldn't possibly understand how somebody in where ever LA, Omaha, Dallas--could be effected by Nine-one-one.

Because others aren't like [i]"us"........

[Eki]

That's what is behind LA kids comments---but if he had an imagination enough to think a bit about others he see that a terrible attack by cold calculating, determined killers cost 3000 lives in a country of 300,000,000,
and then he might ponder the mental shock in a country of 3,000,000 when they lost 96,000.
The number of/numbers total ARE important, it goes to the degree of shock any particular person in a particular group might feel "effected" by a catastrophe.

So to get an idea multiply Finlands losses by 100. Those losses are still in the public consciousness, still are made TV series and movies and plays on stage remembering, examining and trying to make sense of their war FAR more than this country or your country remembers that war.

But whatever they speak some other highly beeeeee-zaaarre language that even after 8 years working with those guys I could only learn to swear and to count to 3 so they couldn't possibly understand how somebody in where ever LA, Omaha, Dallas--could be effected by Nine-one-one.

Because others aren't like "us"........
Add to that the fact that Finland was almost occupied by the Soviets and the US was nowhere near being occupied by Islamic terrorists. Comparing those, yes, it might be a little difficult for me to grasp the amount of panic and fear that the 9/11 attacks seemed to cause in the US.

[Easy Drifter]

You are wrong about my support Eki. I support Israel but not all their actions.
But even if I did that is better than supporting murderers of innocent men women and children for some preceived wrongs.

[gloomyDAY]

No, they're not building that mosque.

Especially after checking through Mr. Rauf's dirty laundry.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/heather-robinson/ground-zero-mosque-leader_b_695861.html

[BDunnell]

I will not enter into a discussion with nobody like you, because
1) you are too stupid to comprehend anything anyway
2) My time is valueable, whereas yours is not.

A non-stupid person might not mis-spell 'valuable', may I point out.

[Eki]

You are wrong about my support Eki. I support Israel but not all their actions.



You're just saying that.


But even if I did that is better than supporting murderers of innocent men women and children for some preceived wrongs.

But in your opinion it's right to murder innocent men women and children for nothing:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_political_violence


British soldiers and officials, United Nations personnel, Palestinian Arab fighters and civilians, and Jewish fighters and civilians[2] were targets or victims of these actions. Domestic, commercial, and government property, infrastructure, and material were also attacked.

[Easy Drifter]

I do not appreciate being called a liar. If you have read my posts I often do not support all of Israel's actions.
I do not approve of murder period although you appear to.

[chuck34]

The "effect" was a shock, a HUGE emotional shock and what Eki probably can't begin to conceive, since he is literate and educated and reads constantly, is mentally active, knows his own and his countrys' history, is just how shocking to the psyche 9/11 must be to people who lived totally self centered, insular, il-or semi-literate, superficial, consumerist lives who'se only knowledge of the rest of the country---much less the rest of the world, has come via bad TV, blockbuster Summer movies or the "Hutu Voices on the Talk Radio"
About half the country or more in other words.
I'm gonna bet 5 penni that Eki really doesn't understand how the majority of Americans are just like the boy above : that they are unable to conceive[/i][/b] that [b]OTHER people in other places may have a similar range of emotional experiences and responses, may have a near mystical love of place where they come from, may be proud of the military accomplishments of their country---and and are probably very aware of the crushing defeats their military inevitably suffered--which they mythologize just as we do---and this cast in concrete --inseparable from the American character inability to "grant" others the "right' to have these same set of emotions as we have is a major reason why my country finds themselves in continual conflict worldwide---and why "we" are so puzzled about the 'rest" of the world.

That's what is behind LA kids comments---but if he had an imagination enough to think a bit about others he see that a terrible attack by cold calculating, determined killers cost 3000 lives in a country of 300,000,000,
and then he might ponder the mental shock in a country of 3,000,000 when they lost 96,000.
The number of/numbers total ARE important, it goes to the degree of shock any particular person in a particular group might feel "effected" by a catastrophe.

So to get an idea multiply Finlands losses by 100. Those losses are still in the public consciousness, still are made TV series and movies and plays on stage remembering, examining and trying to make sense of their war FAR more than this country or your country remembers that war.

But whatever they speak some other highly beeeeee-zaaarre language that even after 8 years working with those guys I could only learn to swear and to count to 3 so they couldn't possibly understand how somebody in where ever LA, Omaha, Dallas--could be effected by Nine-one-one.

Because others aren't like [i]"us"........

Seriously dude, get help. Incoherent rants like that make me more and more convinced of your drinking problem. GET HELP NOW

[chuck34]

You're just saying that.

So you know what's in Easy Drifter's heart now? You've got to be joking.


But in your opinion it's right to murder innocent men women and children for nothing:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_political_violence

Honestly, how much does wikipedia pay you, and how do I get on that pay-roll? Do you not see that your constant linking to that stupid website only HURTS any argument that you may have?

Oh yeah, how about murdering innocent women for nothing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27s_rights_in_Iran#Stoning


"Don’t forget. One cannot remove the punishment of stoning from the law."[22] The case of Kobra Najjar, a 44 year old woman who was convicted of adultery, but who some say was forced into prostitution by her husband, has received international attention.[23] Her sentence was commuted to 100 lashes early in 2009.[24]

Straight from "the most trusted name in news", so it must be right. How do you reconcile that with your beliefs Eki?

[Camelopard]

[quote="chuck34"]So you know what's in Easy Drifter's heart now? You've got to be joking.

.....crap.....

Honestly, how much does wikipedia pay you, and how do I get on that pay-roll? Do you not see that your constant linking to that stupid website only quote]



Just as you can't know what is in Eki's heart, wikipedia may have it's flaws, but it is a better place to get all your information rather than watching the 'latest hollywood blockbuster movie' like you seem to.

Gosh, golly, I saw it in a filum so therfore it must be true.........

[Camelopard]

So you know what's in Easy Drifter's heart now? You've got to be joking.

........crap..........

Honestly, how much does wikipedia pay you, and how do I get on that pay-roll?


Just as you can't know what is in Eki's heart, wikipedia may have it's flaws, but it is a better place to get your information from rather than watching the 'latest hollywood blockbuster movie' which is where I believe you get your 'facts' from.

Gosh, golly, I saw it in a filum so therfore it must be true.........

[Camelopard]

I do not appreciate being called a liar......


If the cap fits....................

By the way, a couple more Australian soldiers died in Afghanistan this past week, you know the country which in your opinion is there just to make up the numbers, after all in your own words, they aren't doing any of the 'heavy lifting' ....... :vader:

[Easy Drifter]

You check the number of Cdn. soldiers, including women, that have been killed and wounded in Afghanistan?
Yes the Aussies are there but the majority of the fighting is being done by the US, Dutch, Cdns. and Brits.
So you are calling me a liar too?
You should check out libel and slander laws. They do apply to the internet.
However I will not even bother complaining to a mod. as I am considering the source and your seeming support of terrorism.

[Camelopard]

You check the number of Cdn. soldiers, including women, that have been killed and wounded in Afghanistan?
Yes the Aussies are there but the majority of the fighting is being done by the US, Dutch, Cdns. and Brits.
So you are calling me a liar too?
You should check out libel and slander laws. They do apply to the internet.
However I will not even bother complaining to a mod. as I am considering the source and your seeming support of terrorism.


As usual you have it wrong....... It was you that apparently said the Australians weren't doing anything worthwhile in Afghanistan. I was merely pointing out that Australians are there and are taking casualties, how does that make me a 'supporter of terrorism'?

So who called you a liar? You like dishing out comments on anyone one that doesn't agree with your point of view but don't like taking it back do you?

Whenever anyone puts a different point of view, it seems your first response is to say they and anyone that may agree with them 'supports terrorism'.

Bejesus get a life and grow up.

[Easy Drifter]

Eki said he did not believe me. You backed him up.
I would say that is calling someone a liar.
I did not say the Aussies were not there. Just about all, if not all, countries that have troops in Afghanistan have taken some casulties. The four countries named have been taking the fight to the Taliban in the most dangerous areas. Most of the others are in more peaceful areas and are doing critical reconstruction work. They do take some casualties.
We both know the vast majority of casulaties are from IEDs and not actual combat no matter where the troops are.
I also feel unless the Afghan population in general back the war against the Taliban it will be a losing cause. There also is little doubt that the current regime is corrupt so I really do feel it is a lost cause because unless you have a stable honest Govt. the general public will not really support the Govt. and by extension the allied forces.
However we are both a way of topic.
My arguement with Eki was his apparent position that the attack on innocent civilians in the US (and elsewhere) was justified because the Islamic extremists would not accept US support of Israel and that they were in Saudi Arabia despite being invited in.
My position is that does not justify murdering thousands of innocent civilians of the US and other countries.
Note I am not condemming the vast majority of Muslims, just the Islamic extremists.
Just what is your stance with regard to the the Islamic extremists and their murdering of innocent civilians?

[Camelopard]

Eki said he did not believe me. You backed him up.................................
..........................I would say that is calling someone a liar.
I did not say the Aussies were not there. Note I am not condemming the vast majority of Muslims, just the Islamic extremists.
Just what is your stance with regard to the the Islamic extremists and their murdering of innocent civilians?

You said if I recall correctly, that the Australians weren't doing any of the 'heavy lifting' an inference that they are there to make up the numbers.....

As I have said countless times before in many threads, if you bothered to read them, I have no time for terrorists nor terrorism, in the name of any religion nor organisation.

This includes state sponsored terrorism as in Burma, drug related terrorism as in Mexico and deaths of innocent victims caused by 'collateral damage'.

Why do you think I give your mate vopie such a hard time? He is the only one on this forum that I know of who has come out in open support of a murdering terrorist piece of scum. I have also noted that every time this gets mentioned there is no criticism of him from you, however, you are constantly jumping up and down on Eki, who as I have said previously has never stated his support for terrorism.

Why do you think I start posts about terrorist priests and the cover-ups by the Roman catholic Church?

Why do you think I have such a dislike of zionists and the terrorist acts they performed against the British, again something you don't seem to have a problem with?

I have no time for Hindu terrorists who go around destroying mosques, I have no time for the FARC terrorists in Columbia. I have no time for so called religious groups that use children as soldiers and commit atrocities as in the Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda. Or the scum in Sudan that also use religion as an excuse to rape, torture and murder.

Need I go on?

In a post in the distant past I asked you a question if you family or friends in Afghanistan which could perhaps explain your obsession with the place. You didn't even give me the courtesy of a reply.


In case you have also forgotten I also voiced my concern about the building of a mosque at this location.

[Eki]

Eki said he did not believe me. You backed him up.
I would say that is calling someone a liar.

No, liar means that the person knows what he's saying is not truth. If the person believes what he's saying is true when it's not, he's not a liar, he's just wrong. The one not believing can be wrong too, if he doesn't believe something that's true, but it isn't necessarily same as calling someone a liar, it can also mean he's saying the other person is wrong. Your libel and slander case wouldn't hold water in a court.

[Camelopard]

No, liar means that the person knows what he's saying is not truth. If the person believes what he's saying is true when it's not, he's not a liar, he's just wrong. The one not believing can be wrong too, if he doesn't believe something that's true, but it isn't necessarily same as calling someone a liar, it can also mean he's saying the other person is wrong. Your libel and slander case wouldn't hold water in a court.

Thank's Eki, I was shaking in my boots at the thought of being extradited to Canada to face charges of slander....... :)

[Easy Drifter]

Tony and I often disagree. I do often agree with him on motor racing but not often on politics.
You and I agree on at least one thing and that is neither of us has any use for any terrorist.
I did mention I had no use for the original zionist terrorists.
I also agree with you on the coverup of the RC priest by both the Church and the British authorities.
I have no close family. Deceased relatives were soldiers and RCMP. Actually grandfather was RNWMP.
Yes I do know some soldiers in Afghanistan. Several from the area where I live have been killed and maimed although I do not know them. We have had over 150 killed and many more wounded, mostly by IED's.
I also have no use for gangbangers and feel our courts are far too lienient with them. We have a major problem in our large cities.
I do sometimes, admittedly on rare occassions, even agree with Eki.

[janvanvurpa]

Seriously dude, get help. Incoherent rants like that make me more and more convinced of your drinking problem. GET HELP NOW

If you think it's incoherent it is because your reading and comprehension level is evidently just a bit below the norm for adult Americans--which means below 7th grade level.
You get help, it was perfectly clear, and perfectly calm.

Your spineless slandering of it as a rant, well that's what you sort do to avoid thinking about anything an ich beyond your nose that you can't grasp without effort, isn't.
Isn't that special?
Oh, I apologize, your problems are probably genetic.
Sorry for poking fun at you, that's cruel.

[chuck34]

Just as you can't know what is in Eki's heart, wikipedia may have it's flaws, but it is a better place to get your information from rather than watching the 'latest hollywood blockbuster movie' which is where I believe you get your 'facts' from.

Gosh, golly, I saw it in a filum so therfore it must be true.........

Yep you got me, all I do is watch hollywood bockbuster movies. Gosh golly I can't figure out this whole internets thingy. Please keep informing me with your very informitive and spot on Wiki-links.

[chuck34]

If you think it's incoherent it is because your reading and comprehension level is evidently just a bit below the norm for adult Americans--which means below 7th grade level.
You get help, it was perfectly clear, and perfectly calm.

Your spineless slandering of it as a rant, well that's what you sort do to avoid thinking about anything an ich beyond your nose that you can't grasp without effort, isn't.
Isn't that special?
Oh, I apologize, your problems are probably genetic.
Sorry for poking fun at you, that's cruel.

Wow Jan going back to his meme of "reading comprehension". That's a new one, thanks.

[Camelopard]

Yep you got me, all I do is watch hollywood bockbuster movies. Gosh golly I can't figure out this whole internets thingy. Please keep informing me with your very informitive and spot on Wiki-links.


In an earlier argument you used a hollywood film as a basis for your facts.

Or have you forgotten?


Care to enlighten us as to what you have learnt recently from the big screen? :)

[gloomyDAY]

http://www.zadan.nl/pics/presidential-prank/presidentialprank.jpg

[Roamy]

Well, I really don't give a sh!t about what planning and zoning did about issuing a building permit for the construction of this Mosque but I am taking bets that it will never have a 5 year anniversary!

[Eki]

Well, I really don't give a sh!t about what planning and zoning did about issuing a building permit for the construction of this Mosque but I am taking bets that it will never have a 5 year anniversary!
Why? Are you planning a terrorist attack against it?

[Roamy]

No I am too far away. but I would imagine the political pressure will be too great.

[chuck34]

In an earlier argument you used a hollywood film as a basis for your facts.

Or have you forgotten?


Care to enlighten us as to what you have learnt recently from the big screen? :)

Yes I did use Charlie Wilson's War to demonstrate a point. However you have never answered the questions I asked you at the time. So do you care to enlighten us now about what was factually wrong with the movie, and what arguments I based on said errors? You do realize that perhaps that movie was based on a book (that I read), and also on factual events, that I have also read bits and pieces about. You also realize that Hollywood movies can be done right and actually inspire people to learn more about history. And that perhaps that is why I pointed out that movie.

I honestly don't understand your obsession with trying to "pin me down" somehow with my one time use of a movie (based on facts) to demonstrate a point. Either tell me how that argument, from that time, was wrong and based on error, or get over it. You're getting to be as tiresome as Eki.

[anthonyvop]

Yes I did use Charlie Wilson's War to demonstrate a point. However you have never answered the questions I asked you at the time. So do you care to enlighten us now about what was factually wrong with the movie, and what arguments I based on said errors? You do realize that perhaps that movie was based on a book (that I read), and also on factual events, that I have also read bits and pieces about. You also realize that Hollywood movies can be done right and actually inspire people to learn more about history. And that perhaps that is why I pointed out that movie.

I honestly don't understand your obsession with trying to "pin me down" somehow with my one time use of a movie (based on facts) to demonstrate a point. Either tell me how that argument, from that time, was wrong and based on error, or get over it. You're getting to be as tiresome as Eki.


That movie was a sick attempt at trying to make the Democrats look like anti-communist hawks.

It was the Reagan Administration and the G.O.P. that lead efforts in driving the Soviets from Afghanistan. Wilson was just a Hawkish Democrat(one of a very few) who jumped on board to placate his constituency. It was the Democrats in Congress who fought against funding.

[chuck34]

That movie was a sick attempt at trying to make the Democrats look like anti-communist hawks.

It was the Reagan Administration and the G.O.P. that lead efforts in driving the Soviets from Afghanistan. Wilson was just a Hawkish Democrat(one of a very few) who jumped on board to placate his constituency. It was the Democrats in Congress who fought against funding.

I'll agree with you on all of that. But again, what facts in the movie were not correct (hint: there were lots). More importantly to Camel's point, which one of those inacuracies did I base an argument on? I'll give you and Camel a bit to come up with one, then I'll give you the answer if you want it.

[Camelopard]

I'll agree with you on all of that. But again, what facts in the movie were not correct (hint: there were lots). More importantly to Camel's point, which one of those inacuracies did I base an argument on? I'll give you and Camel a bit to come up with one, then I'll give you the answer if you want it.

Well chucky, I've not seen the film and have no intention of doing so, therefore you will be waiting a long time.

You criticise people for using wikipedia as their source for facts, I criticised you for using a film (you know, entertainment) as a basis for your facts and you got all precious over it.............. You are just another thin skinned north american who takes himself far too seriously (of which there are plenty on this forum)........

Ever heard the expression "build a bridge.............."?

[chuck34]

Well chucky, I've not seen the film and have no intention of doing so, therefore you will be waiting a long time.

Yet you are ready to dismiss it as being totally wrong. Interesting.


You criticise people for using wikipedia as their source for facts, I criticised you for using a film (you know, entertainment) as a basis for your facts and you got all precious over it..............

I criticise Eki for using wikipedia ALL THE TIME I used a movie to illustrate a point ONCE. If you can't see the difference I feel sorry for you.


You are just another thin skinned north american who takes himself far too seriously (of which there are plenty on this forum)........

You don't know me so you have no clue how seriously I take myself (or not).


Ever heard the expression "build a bridge.............."?

Obviously you have not, so you're look to me to explain it to you. Sorry, I don't really feel like it at this point. Maybe later.

[Roamy]

screw it - blow the bridge up !!!

[Camelopard]

Yet you are ready to dismiss it as being totally wrong. Interesting.

Oh for heavens sake, there are lot's of sources of information out there, I don't need films (you know entertainment!) to get my facts from, unless of of course it's on Nat Geo or Discovery (that's a joke, you do understand that don't you?) .
How do you know I haven't read the book? In fact you don't know how much I've read about the subject so stop being so damn patronising.


...... If you can't see the difference I feel sorry for you.

There is no need to feel sorry for me, thanks anyway though!



You don't know me so you have no clue how seriously I take myself (or not).

Same here.


Obviously you have not, so you're look to me to explain it to you. Sorry, I don't really feel like it at this point. Maybe later.

How have I "asked you to explain it"? Seems that you don't understand, so for your edification:

"build a bridge and get over it"

Happy now? Go to your local video store, I'm sure you will be able to find a film to rent that will explain it all to you.......... :)

[chuck34]

Oh for heavens sake, there are lot's of sources of information out there, I don't need films (you know entertainment!) to get my facts from, unless of of course it's on Nat Geo or Discovery (that's a joke, you do understand that don't you?) .
How do you know I haven't read the book? In fact you don't know how much I've read about the subject so stop being so damn patronising.

So now you've read the book. Interesting. Perhaps we should go back to where this all began....

http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136032

Ever see the movie or read the book "Charlie Wilson's War"? That explains a lot. To sum up a bit. Yes we did give them aid, and a boat load of promises. Then we up and pulled out, leaving them with nothing.

Perhaps if you weren't so hell bent on getting "points" on other people you could have an intelligent conversation with them. But instead you seem to feel compelled to "score" on me about being some sort of illiterate moron because I made ONE comment about a movie.


How have I "asked you to explain it"? Seems that you don't understand, so for your edification:

"build a bridge and get over it"

Perhaps you are the one who should "get over it", afterall YOU are the one who has brought up a small point from a topic 9 months dead. But that point was completely lost on you when I made it in my last response to you. So yes, you were asking me to explain it.

[Roamy]

So, the Muslim investors championing the construction of the new mosque near Ground Zero claim it's all about strengthening the
relationship between the Muslim and non-Muslim world.

As an American, I believe they have every right to build the mosque - after all, if they buy the land and they follow the law - who can stop them?

Which is, why, in the spirit of outreach, I've decided to do the same thing.

I'm announcing tonight, that I am planning to build and open the first gay bar that caters not only to the west, but also Islamic gay men. To best express my sincere desire for dialogue, the bar will be situated next to the mosque Park51, in an available commercial space.

This is not a joke. I've already spoken to a number of investors, who have pledged their support in this bipartisan bid for understanding
and tolerance.

As you know, the Muslim faith doesn't look kindly upon homosexuality, which is why I'm building this bar. It is an effort to break down barriers and reduce deadly homophobia in the Islamic world.

The goal, however, is not simply to open a typical gay bar, but one friendly to men of Islamic faith. An entire floor, for example, will
feature non-alcoholic drinks, since booze is forbidden by the faith. The bar will be open all day and night, to accommodate men who would rather keep their sexuality under wraps - but still want to dance.

Bottom line: I hope that the mosque owners will be as open to the bar, as I am to the new mosque. After all, the belief driving them to open up their center near Ground Zero is no different than mine.

My place, however, will have better music.

Some proposed names...

The Queer'an

Gaybraham's

Mohammie's Retreat

The 72nd virgin

Jihad Me at Hello

The Gay Allahs

Allahu Gaybar

The Sphinx-ter

Queer Eye for the Jihad Guy

The Homo Side Bomber

Jihad's and Rods

Weapons of Ass Destruction

Midnight at the Oasis

Mecca inn & out

SCUD Marks

Khomeini Men, Kholittle Time

Mo's Hole

Osama bin Dover

[janvanvurpa]

So, the Muslim investors championing the construction of the new mosque near Ground Zero claim it's all about strengthening the
relationship between the Muslim and non-Muslim world.

As an American, I believe they have every right to build the mosque - after all, if they buy the land and they follow the law - who can stop them?

Which is, why, in the spirit of outreach, I've decided to do the same thing.

I'm announcing tonight, that I am planning to build and open the first gay bar that caters not only to the west, but also Islamic gay men. To best express my sincere desire for dialogue, the bar will be situated next to the mosque Park51, in an available commercial space.

This is not a joke. I've already spoken to a number of investors, who have pledged their support in this bipartisan bid for understanding
and tolerance.

As you know, the Muslim faith doesn't look kindly upon homosexuality, which is why I'm building this bar. It is an effort to break down barriers and reduce deadly homophobia in the Islamic world.

The goal, however, is not simply to open a typical gay bar, but one friendly to men of Islamic faith. An entire floor, for example, will
feature non-alcoholic drinks, since booze is forbidden by the faith. The bar will be open all day and night, to accommodate men who would rather keep their sexuality under wraps - but still want to dance.

Bottom line: I hope that the mosque owners will be as open to the bar, as I am to the new mosque. After all, the belief driving them to open up their center near Ground Zero is no different than mine.

My place, however, will have better music.

Some proposed names...

The Queer'an

Gaybraham's

Mohammie's Retreat

The 72nd virgin

Jihad Me at Hello

The Gay Allahs

Allahu Gaybar

The Sphinx-ter

Queer Eye for the Jihad Guy

The Homo Side Bomber

Jihad's and Rods

Weapons of Ass Destruction

Midnight at the Oasis

Mecca inn & out

SCUD Marks

Khomeini Men, Kholittle Time

Mo's Hole

Osama bin Dover

So like all the other ditto-head goons we see Roamy, steals and plagiarizes wholesale from the Internet copy verbatim crap which he pots under his own "Name" as attempts to fool people into believing he wrote it...
Why are you sort sort short of original thought that you must steal whole ideas and post without attribution? We know you're not capable of writing anything coherent or even half funny...

Google: 'So, the Muslim investors championing the construction of the new mosque near Ground Zero claim it's all about strengthening the relationship between the Muslim and non-Muslim world."
And we see: About 37,700 results (0.61 seconds)
1.
Organizers of Muslim Center Underestimated Its Opponents - Blogrunner
Aug 10, 2010 ... So, the Muslim investors championing the construction of the new mosque near Ground Zero claim it's all about strengthening the relationship between the Muslim and non-Muslim world. As an... The Daily Gut ...
http://www.blogrunner.com/.../organizers_of_muslim_center_underestimated_its_opp onents/ - Cached
2.
Newsvine - Jon Stewart takes on groundzero 'mega mosque': It's not ...
Aug 11, 2010 ... So, the Muslim investors championing the construction of the new mosque near Ground Zero claim it's all about strengthening the relationship between the Muslim and non-Muslim world. ... It is an effort to break down barriers and reduce deadly homophobia in the Islamic world. ...
jumpshotjarrod.newsvine.com/_news/.../4867500-jon-stewart-takes-on-groundzero-mega-mosque-its-not-at-groundzero-and-its-not-a-mos... - Cached
3.
The governor on the mosque : Post Politics: Political News and ...
Aug 31, 2010 ... So, the Muslim investors championing the construction of the new mosque near Ground Zero claim it's all about strengthening the relationship between the Muslim and non-Muslim world. As an American, I believe they have ...
politics.nashvillepost.com/2010/08/31/the-governor-on-the-mosque/ - Cached
4.
Rallies over mosque near ground zero get heated - Yahoo! News
Aug 22, 2010 ... “So, the Muslim investors championing the construction of the new mosque near Ground Zero claim it's all about strengthening the ...
news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100822/ap_on_re.../us_nyc_mosque_5 - Cached
5.
The Mosque at Ground Zero
Aug 12, 2010 ... Greg Gutfeld noted in his blog: “So, the Muslim investor championing the construction of the new mosque near Ground Zero claim it's all ...
http://www.chronwatch-america.com/...Mosque...Ground-Zero/Page1.html - Cached
6.
Islamic gay bar to open near Ground Zero - U.s. - Catholic Online
Aug 10, 2010 ... Islamic gay bar to open near Ground Zero ... LOS ANGELES, CA (Catholic Online) - "So, the Muslim investors championing the construction of the new mosque near Ground Zero claim it's all about strengthening the relationship between the Muslim and non-Muslim world," Gutfeld writes. ...
http://www.catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=37774&wf... - Cached
7.
My New Gay Bar - poorsinner101 - Open Salon
Aug 10, 2010 ... So, the Muslim investors championing the construction of the new mosque near Ground Zero claim it's all about strengthening the relationship between the Muslim and non-Muslim world. As an American, I believe they have ...
open.salon.com/blog/poorsinner101/2010/08/.../my_new_gay_bar - Cached
8.
REMINDER - MASSIVE PROTEST AGAINSTE MOSQUE AT GROUND ZERO TOMORROW ...
Aug 22, 2010 ... "So, the Muslim investors championing the construction of the new mosque near Ground Zero claim it's all about strengthening the relationship between the Muslim and non-Muslim world. As an American, I believe they have ...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2575112/posts - Cached
9.
No joke: Greg Gutfeld building gay bar next to Ground Zero mosque ...
Aug 10, 2010 ... “So, the Muslim investors championing the construction of the new mosque near Ground Zero claim it's all about strengthening the relationship between the Muslim and non-Muslim world. As an American, I believe they have ...
http://www.twiceright.com/...to-ground-zero-mosque/...news/.../ethan - Cached
10.
Gregg Gutfeld Wants Gay Bar Near Mosque - Gay Bar Gossip
Aug 11, 2010 ... So, the Muslim investors championing the construction of the new Mosque near Ground Zero claim it's all about strengthening the relationship between the Muslim and non-Muslim World. As an American, I believe they have ...
harrypottering.com/.../Gregg-Gutfeld-Wants-Gay-Bar-Near-Mosque-3259567.html - Cached

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Why is it that right-wing extremist Authoritarians steal and plagiarizer constantly?

Credibility score for Roamy : minus eleventy-billion.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

I would favour a gay bar next to this Islamic community center that is 2 blocks away from ground zero. Isn't there a strip club on the same street?

[donKey jote]

Jon Stewart had a point the other day:

putting a mosque near ground zero.. what next? A church near a playground? :eek: :devil: :p :

[Roamy]

oh Jan Van cry me a river loser !!

[janvanvurpa]

oh Jan Van cry me a river loser !!

Loser?
Why am I a loser for pointing out that you are a lowly, miserable, disgusting, lying thief?

That's what a plagiarist is, a deceitful, uncreative, unoriginal dullard who steals ideas---sure this was lame and it's all over the Internet, ---but you post it up under your name..
Now we've seen the same shameless theft by a long string of other lumpen-Conservative idiots for years so no surprise that you turn out to be lacking any morals or shame, most of you sort are sociopaths anyway, so the real question is only:

Why do do steal when your blunder is so obvious?
Why do other idiots of the same poltical stripe also constantly steal ideas and post without attribution..

Are you guys really as incapable of original thoughts and original feelings as you seem?

The mere fact that it was more than 2 likes long is a red flag that you couldn't manage that, so why steal something and put it up under your name as if you wrote it...


And why am I a loser for pointing out your theft?

[Roamy]

You really need to seek mental health. You are a pathetic freak and why you even bother coming on a forum is amazing to me.

[janvanvurpa]

You really need to seek mental health. You are a pathetic freak and why you even bother coming on a forum is amazing to me.

I need to seek "mental health"?


You are the plagiarist, and thus an unthinking thief, and yet somehow, I am a pathetic freak..

Why does proving in about 2 seconds that you stole the whole silly thing straight off the Internet make me anything, except a service to the forum for exposing you for the thief you are?

Let's review, Roamy.
You post up a big long thing under your name which says to others that YOU wrote it.
I realised you can only snarl and slander and rant for about 2, maybe 3 lines so I cut and paste into Google the first few words and I get 36,000 hits with those same exact words...

So I point out you stole the offensive sh!t right off the intrenet.

And Roamy,are you maybe 11? 13? Didn't anybody in whatever cesspool you live in explain that when you quote other peoples words or writing, you're supposed to give credit to the original speaker or author, otherwise you are stealing,and in this case the specific type of thief is called a PLAGIARIST


So, you steal a whole "essay" and you say I am:
a "loser"
"crying"
"pathetic freak"

Do you usually get so upset when people expose your limp attempts at theft?

A reasonable person could ask you why you come to this forum since you can't even bother to write your own thoughts,, you steal others words, and when you are confirmed as a thief, you resort of abuse...



Just like your sort does with impunity constantly, and has for as long as I've been here (02)...

Why don't you take a vacation?

[Eki]

It's nice to notice that at least someone in the US military has brains:

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/09/06/florida.quran.burning/index.html?iref=NS1#fbid=jSwNKnCK7Z3&wom=false


Planned Quran-burning could endanger troops, Petraeus warns
By the CNN Wire Staff
September 6, 2010 -- Updated 2216 GMT (0616 HKT)

Gen. David Petraeus said a church's Quran-burning "is precisely the kind of action the Taliban uses."

(CNN) -- The U.S. commander in Afghanistan on Monday criticized a Florida church's plan to burn copies of the Quran on September 11, warning the demonstration "could cause significant problems" for American troops overseas.
"It could endanger troops and it could endanger the overall effort in Afghanistan," Gen. David Petraeus said in a statement issued Monday.

[Bezza]

I think it is daft thing to do, but understand no one can stop it.

What bothers me though is if you tried to put up a Christian church in the middle of Mecca you would probably be stoned alive.

Personally, I would allow the mosque but also put up areas for Christians, Jews etc in very close proximity. Then everyone is equally catered for.

[anthonyvop]

It's nice to notice that at least someone in the US military has brains:

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/09/06/florida.quran.burning/index.html?iref=NS1#fbid=jSwNKnCK7Z3&wom=false

I liked Petraeus until that statement.

If I was the the POTUS I would fire him.

Did Eisenhower ask Hollywood, Radio and newspapers to tone down the anti-Nazi rhetoric?

Did MacArthur ask his troops to stop calling them "Japs"?

This General forgot what the uniform stands for!

[Eki]

This General forgot what the uniform stands for!
That you absolutely must act like an idiot?

[Eki]

Did Eisenhower ask Hollywood, Radio and newspapers to tone down the anti-Nazi rhetoric?

He may have asked them not to burn the Bible though.

[anthonyvop]

That you absolutely must act like an idiot?

With you being our resident Nazi I understand how you despise the idea of freedom of speech and expression but there are some of us who value it way above the chance of hurting someone's feelings

[race aficionado]

With you being our resident Nazi I understand how you despise the idea of freedom of speech and expression but there are some of us who value it way above the chance of hurting someone's feelings

One thing is to have freedom of speech, another is to be that STUPID and IRRESPONSIBLE to even think of putting our military service men and women in harms way.

That priest may have a right to say what he wants but he is a prick in my book.

What an arse!
:mad:

[Eki]

With you being our resident Nazi I understand how you despise the idea of freedom of speech and expression but there are some of us who value it way above the chance of hurting someone's feelings
You had the saying "lose lips sink ships". Or was it the Brits? Anyways you put the American Japanese into concentration camps, because you were afraid they'd talk to the Japanese. How's that for freedom of speech?

[donKey jote]

What bothers me though is if you tried to put up a Christian church in the middle of Mecca you would probably be stoned alive.

Personally, I would allow the mosque but also put up areas for Christians, Jews etc in very close proximity. Then everyone is equally catered for.

Why does it bother you, unless you intend to put a church in the middle of Mecca? Maybe it bothers you that the Land of Freedom doesn't act like the Saudi Wahabbis? :confused:

You're talking like it were the only Mosque in NY... as it happens, there are many. And churches. And Sinagogues.
If it weren't for it becoming an election issue for Fox News & Co not even VOP would have noticed.

[anthonyvop]

One thing is to have freedom of speech, another is to be that STUPID and IRRESPONSIBLE to even think of putting our military service men and women in harms way.

That priest may have a right to say what he wants but he is a prick in my book.

What an arse!
:mad:


The Idea that Radical Muslims will now start targeting US soldiers because of a book burning is really naive at best and patently stupid at it's worse.

[Eki]

The Idea that Radical Muslims will now start targeting US soldiers because of a book burning is really naive at best and patently stupid at it's worse.
Some may have said that radical Americans would start invading Afghanistan and Iraq because of few destroyed buildings, but what do you know.

A smart man would ask himself what could be won by burning the Koran. The answer is "nothing". Then he would ask himself what could be lost by burning the Koran. The answer is "a lot".

[Eki]

Anthonyvop may have a point though. The Nazi book burnings would probably had not been enough for the US and its allies to start targeting Germany.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_book_burnings

Like Heinrich Heine wrote "Where they burn books, they will ultimately also burn people":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Heine

Wiki-Eki strikes again!

[race aficionado]

The Idea that Radical Muslims will now start targeting US soldiers because of a book burning is really naive at best and patently stupid at it's worse.

Have I just been called stupid by vop?
man, and naive too.
Oh wait . . . my idea was stupid . . . my bad.
:dozey:

oh well . . .

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4535491.stm

anthony, it is stupid and naive to think that no harm can be caused because of this "book burning" as you call it.
:s mokin:

[Eki]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4535491.stm

anthony, it is stupid and naive to think that no harm can be caused because of this "book burning" as you call it.
:s mokin:

Luckily it's Tom Casey and not anthonyvop who's the spokesman for the US:

"Obviously the destruction of any kind of holy book... is something that is reprehensible and not in keeping with US policies and practices," state department spokesman Tom Casey said.

[anthonyvop]

Luckily it's Tom Casey and not anthonyvop who's the spokesman for the US:

"Obviously the destruction of any kind of holy book... is something that is reprehensible and not in keeping with US policies and practices," state department spokesman Tom Casey said.

What a stupid statement.

The issue is private citizens exercising their freedom of expression which is 100% withing the policies and practices of the US.

What can you expect from this administration? Shame on them for not supporting it's citizens for what is a perfectly legal activity.

[anthonyvop]

Have I just been called stupid by vop?
man, and naive too.
Oh wait . . . my idea was stupid . . . my bad.
:dozey:

oh well . . .

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4535491.stm

anthony, it is stupid and naive to think that no harm can be caused because of this "book burning" as you call it.
:s mokin:

It is stupid and naive to think that they wouldn't find another excuse to attack US soldiers.

It is reprehensible that you do not defend freedom of expression.

[Eki]

What can you expect from this administration? Shame on them for not supporting it's citizens for what is a perfectly legal activity.
"This administration"? That piece of news that I quoted was from 2005, when there were still three more years of Bush's idiocracy.

[race aficionado]

It is reprehensible that you do not defend freedom of expression.


One thing is to have freedom of speech, another is to be that STUPID and IRRESPONSIBLE to even think of putting our military service men and women in harms way.

That priest may have a right to say what he wants but he is a prick in my book.

What an arse!
:mad:

I defend freedom of speech - as you can see in my previous post -
I just think that what he had the right to say and express is irresponsible, disrespectful and down right dangerous.

[Bob Riebe]

If you are going to burn one, you have to buy one, at least the koran publishers get a boost.

[Bob Riebe]

One thing is to have freedom of speech, another is to be that STUPID and IRRESPONSIBLE to even think of putting our military service men and women in harms way.
ROFL-- do you mean such as Pres. Obama revealing future moves months ahead of time, amongst other asinine moves the community organizer and chief has done?

[Roamy]

One thing is to have freedom of speech, another is to be that STUPID and IRRESPONSIBLE to even think of putting our military service men and women in harms way.

That priest may have a right to say what he wants but he is a prick in my book.

What an arse!
:mad:

Race
If burning their book is going to lose the war or cause casualties then we need to get out of the War business. The rest of the world fights wars killing innocents but we are held to a higher standard. What the hell is this about. I want to quit wars NOW and serve future notice that any future wars the winner shall retain the country!!

[janvanvurpa]

Some may have said that radical Americans would start invading Afghanistan and Iraq because of few destroyed buildings, but what do you know.

A smart man would ask himself what could be won by burning the Koran. The answer is "nothing". Then he would ask himself what could be lost by burning the Koran. The answer is "a lot".

However, you must bear in mind just who and where these people are and are from, then you idea sinks, because self-reflection is not part of the character make up of a big portion of the people of this country: they do what they're told, and the preacher done tolt 'em Gawd has commanded him to burn Korans, that's good enuf fore dems.

know what I mean, Vern?

They don't call them Floridiots for nothing, Eki.

[ShiftingGears]

If you are going to burn one, you have to buy one, at least the koran publishers get a boost.

A good time for the Koran publishers to up their prices.

Sneaky.

[Eki]

Many people don't understand that in America they have the freedom to be ignorant. Well put.

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/09/07/florida.quran.burning/index.html?iref=NS1#fbid=jSwNKnCK7Z3&wom=false


"But in America, there is the freedom to be ignorant," el-Amin said. "The only problem is in the world, many people don't understand that particular freedom. So what he is doing is like shouting fire in a theater, in a world theater, and people are upset."
El-Amin said Jones has boasted of never reading the Quran, so, "He doesn't know that he's going to burn a book that has some of the most beautiful passages about Christ Jesus throughout, as well as Moses, Abraham and all of the prophets he reads about and says he follows in the Bible." But he said the best strategy would be to ignore Jones, "like we do people on corners saying the end of the world is coming."

[chuck34]

Wait, wait, wait. Let me see if I have this straight. This guy in Florida shouldn't burn the Koran because it might hurt somebody's feelings, but we should allow the Mosque to be built, damn the people's feelings? Do I have that right?

Come on people consistency is a good thing.

In both cases (Mosque and burning) they have the right to do it. But in both cases, it is the wrong thing to do.

[Eki]

Wait, wait, wait. Let me see if I have this straight. This guy in Florida shouldn't burn the Koran because it might hurt somebody's feelings, but we should allow the Mosque to be built, damn the people's feelings? Do I have that right?

Come on people consistency is a good thing.

In both cases (Mosque and burning) they have the right to do it. But in both cases, it is the wrong thing to do.
The wrong thing is to associate Islam, Mosques or the Koran with the 9/11 attacks.

Nobody would hurt their feelings because of the Mosque, if people didn't associate Islam with the 9/11 attacks, at least in a negative way (the Mosque was offered as a peace offering to show that the Muslims honor the victims so much that they'd like to build a holy building to commemorate them). Burning the Koran, however, cannot be interpreted in a positive and constructive way no matter how you slice it. It's an act of hate, and that's it.

[Easy Drifter]

Radical Islamics have to be associated with 9/11. The planes were not hijacked and slammed into the towers and Pentagon by Hindus, Christians, Buddists or Jews but by radical islamics.

[Eki]

Radical Islamics have to be associated with 9/11. The planes were not hijacked and slammed into the towers and Pentagon by Hindus, Christians, Buddists or Jews but by radical islamics.
Radical Islamics are a very small minority of the Muslims, like the IRA were a small minority of the Roman Catholics. The acts of the IRA didn't IMO justify burning the Bible or Catholic churches. Burning the Bible or a Catholic church would have made also other Catholics than the IRA angry, just like burning the Koran will make also other Muslims than the radical Islamics angry.

[Roamy]

Many people don't understand that in America they have the freedom to be ignorant. Well put.

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/09/07/florida.quran.burning/index.html?iref=NS1#fbid=jSwNKnCK7Z3&wom=false

What the EC doesn't get is they will be under sharia law in short order. EKI will probably be one of the first to get a good stoning.

[Easy Drifter]

I agree with you Eki that the vast majority of Muslims are not terrorists.
The point was it was a group of radicals all of whom were muslims not another group.
I also agree that the burning of the Koran is incredibly stupid and certainly will accomplish nothing of a positive nature.
However every country has some stupid people and with its large population the US has quite a few by extension.

[Eki]

What the EC doesn't get is they will be under sharia law in short order. EKI will probably be one of the first to get a good stoning.
I'm prepared:

http://www.webweaver.nu/clipart/img/entertainment/sports/hockey/goalie.jpg

[Brown, Jon Brow]

What the EC doesn't get is they will be under sharia law in short order. EKI will probably be one of the first to get a good stoning.

So how much does the Daily Mail pay you?

[chuck34]

The wrong thing is to associate Islam, Mosques or the Koran with the 9/11 attacks.

Nobody would hurt their feelings because of the Mosque, if people didn't associate Islam with the 9/11 attacks, at least in a negative way (the Mosque was offered as a peace offering to show that the Muslims honor the victims so much that they'd like to build a holy building to commemorate them). Burning the Koran, however, cannot be interpreted in a positive and constructive way no matter how you slice it. It's an act of hate, and that's it.

It's hard not to, especially since the terrorists carried out the attacks in the name of Islam. And yes this mosque is supposed to be all about peace and understanding, how's that working out? I can see how some sort of outreach could be a good idea. But to do it in a building that was damaged in the attacks, andto open it on the aniversary, is never going to work. It's only going to caUse hurt feelings, suspicions, and drive people further apart.

[Roamy]

So how much does the Daily Mail pay you?

Here is your new deal EKI - These people are sickos and you are giving up your country to them.

Death for a piece of ass - oh yea that is the religion I want

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/09/08/iran-womans-stoning-suspended-international-outcry/

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Here is your new deal EKI - These people are sickos and you are giving up your country to them.


Sure....................

http://www.ocdsymptoms.co.uk/dealing-with-intrusive-thoughts-paranoia.html

[Eki]

Fousto, they're coming to take you away ha ha...

VTKq4uMB-QQ

[BDunnell]

Wait, wait, wait. Let me see if I have this straight. This guy in Florida shouldn't burn the Koran because it might hurt somebody's feelings, but we should allow the Mosque to be built, damn the people's feelings? Do I have that right?

Come on people consistency is a good thing.

In both cases (Mosque and burning) they have the right to do it. But in both cases, it is the wrong thing to do.

There is simply no like-for-like comparison to be made here. And I do wish people would stop calling it a mosque. Doing so undermines their arguments.

[F1boat]

Fousto, they're coming to take you away ha ha...

VTKq4uMB-QQ

The Joker is the greatest character ever, haha.

[Eki]

Good points:

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/09/08/imam.lkl/index.html?hpt=T2#fbid=jSwNKnCK7Z3&wom=false


"If we move from that location, the story will be the radicals have taken over the discourse," Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf told CNN's Soledad O'Brien on "Larry King Live."
"The headlines in the Muslim world will be that Islam is under attack."
The imam, who repeatedly said his mission was to promote peace and build a bridge among faiths, said he was also speaking about "radicals" on both sides of the debate on the Islamic center. "Our national security now hinges on how we negotiate this, how we speak about it."
"The battlefront is between moderates of all sides... and the radicals on all sides," he said.

[glauistean]

I agree. Paise be to the prophet pedo

We should all be like the "good Germans" in the 1930's, who welcomed the nazis to do whatever they want....there were plenty of SS oficers who never shot one jew, russian and so on, so we should not condemn all nazis, and if they want to build memorials to Hitler right next to concentration camps, "We don't have a human right not to offended"....whatever that means

btw, brennan was an old liberal fool, whose droppings on the american flag and other of his rulings should be dumped, and he lucked out with his 5-4 decisions where the cowardly kennedy would concur :down:
by Brennan's own logic, laws outlawing "hate crimes" are also unconstitutional, because of crimes are a form of political expression...

(okay, now eki can start arguing about how/ why jews are in Isreal, etc..)

The SS was part of the Wermacht, not all of it.

Hitler was a political leader not a religious one. Very disengenuous of you to bring the concentration camp victims into the discussion when there is no comparison bewteen what you are trying to talk about and what is being proposed to being built. It is a community center with a place or prayer for those of the Muslim faith, many of whom died on September 11th 2001 in the twin towers and the Pentagon.

Not all Muslims share your vitriolic hate for your religion. Christian, is it?

[glauistean]

Wait, wait, wait. Let me see if I have this straight. This guy in Florida shouldn't burn the Koran because it might hurt somebody's feelings, but we should allow the Mosque to be built, damn the people's feelings? Do I have that right?

Come on people consistency is a good thing.

In both cases (Mosque and burning) they have the right to do it. But in both cases, it is the wrong thing to do.

Chuck, wake up son. It is a community center that is being built with a prayer section in it for Muslims.These horrific muslims are also making room for Catholic, Protestant and Unitarian areas for them to pray in. So Chuck, before you start bashing everything muslim know your friggin facts.

[Bezza]

Why does it bother you, unless you intend to put a church in the middle of Mecca? Maybe it bothers you that the Land of Freedom doesn't act like the Saudi Wahabbis? :confused:

You're talking like it were the only Mosque in NY... as it happens, there are many. And churches. And Sinagogues.
If it weren't for it becoming an election issue for Fox News & Co not even VOP would have noticed.

One rule for one and another rule for another.

People want equality which I agree with but there is currently too much focus on pandering to minorities in society.

If they were truly equal, everybody would be judged by the same rules. This doesn't happen.

[chuck34]

Chuck, wake up son. It is a community center that is being built with a prayer section in it for Muslims.These horrific muslims are also making room for Catholic, Protestant and Unitarian areas for them to pray in. So Chuck, before you start bashing everything muslim know your friggin facts.

I know EXACTLY what it is. I stand by what I've said.

[schmenke]

...These horrific muslims are also making room for Catholic, Protestant and Unitarian areas for them to pray in. ...

They ran out of room for Jews? ;)

[glauistean]

I know EXACTLY what it is. I stand by what I've said.

Chuck, you don't know "EXACTLY" what it is or you would not make the idiotic statement you just announced. It makes you looked ignorant and uneducated and I would guess you would not like anyone to assume that of you.

[glauistean]

They ran out of room for Jews? ;)

I missed out on posting that fact. Thanks you Schmenke. They do have room or it is the plan to have a section for Jews. Yes.

[Roamy]

Why are so many muslims migrating from their home countries. They should just stay and fix what they have and can be completely sharia compliant. Many countries are now talking deportation. I certainly will vote yes if the vote ever comes

[Eki]

Why are so many muslims migrating from their home countries. They should just stay and fix what they have and can be completely sharia compliant. Many countries are now talking deportation. I certainly will vote yes if the vote ever comes

Why did your ancestors migrate from their home countries? And why did they insist keeping their old culture and ways and not adapted to the culture and lifestyle of the Native Americans?

[Roamy]

Because our culture was conquer and retain. A principal we should probably not given up.

[Eki]

Because our culture was conquer and retain. A principal we should probably not given up.
But you claim that the Muslim culture is also conquer and retain and say it's bad?

[BDunnell]

People want equality which I agree with but there is currently too much focus on pandering to minorities in society.

In which ways, precisely? And would you include gay people in that comment?

Not once have I experienced any of this alleged positive discrimination.

[BDunnell]

Why are so many muslims migrating from their home countries. They should just stay and fix what they have and can be completely sharia compliant.

Can you not answer that question yourself?

[BDunnell]

I know EXACTLY what it is. I stand by what I've said.

You have repeatedly called it a mosque. It is not a mosque. How, therefore, can you stand by what you said?

[airshifter]

In which ways, precisely? And would you include gay people in that comment?

Not once have I experienced any of this alleged positive discrimination.

Affirmative action programs in the US have resulted in "quota based" hiring practices, which discriminate against the group which is in reality the best qualified for the job, being hired as a whole group... unless they manage to properly represent that certain percentage required for their ethnic background and sex.

After starting one of my business ventures years ago, I realized just how many more grants, low cost loans, etc my wife was eligible for. Being female and half "other than white" she could have got all kinds of things I could not as a white male.

I haven't seen any things that cater to the gay community, but I'm sure the same discriminations exist in gay owned companies as they do in companies owned by other various ethnic/religious groups. Here in the US it would probably be hard to find a non Asian person working in a Chinese restaurant. If you have an American food restaurant of the same size and don't hire at least some people other than "white Americans" you would probably be accused of discrimination very quickly.

[markabilly]

The SS was part of the Wermacht, not all of it.

Hitler was a political leader not a religious one. Very disengenuous of you to bring the concentration camp victims into the discussion when there is no comparison bewteen what you are trying to talk about and what is being proposed to being built. It is a community center with a place or prayer for those of the Muslim faith, many of whom died on September 11th 2001 in the twin towers and the Pentagon.

Not all Muslims share your vitriolic hate for your religion. Christian, is it?
What are you mumbling about?

point is and remains is that the koran expresses much hatred for infidels, and preaches it just like mein kampf preaches racial superiority and hatred for those of different religious views, ethnic and racial backgrounds

maybe some nazis should go establish "a community center with a place or prayer" at a former concentration camp site for those of the nazi faith, and make it availble for everyone, including jews? that should make it all just fine and dandy.

This is a religion whose teachings actively encourage hideous murders and excutions for things as MAYBE having sex out of wedlock or MAYBE being gay, and multiple marriges to girls as young as 9 years old....

The fact that moslems were killed at 911 and many more get murdered everyday by other moslems, children and inncoents blown up in car bombs and so forth, all in the name of the great prophet...and justified by their "good book", well that is all the more reason to condemn this so-called religion as barbaric and unworthy of existence.... :rolleyes:

BTW-Just like the stalinists of russia and the nazis of germany, those nazi and communists had the habit of executing plenty of their peers, fellow believers and brothers in arm.......no different than those islamic types of governments today.

Just as those religions ( nazi and stalinist communism was and is a religion) that feed on the death of children have no justification for their existence, same is to be said for islam.

islam needs a brave new prophet to lead them from their barbarity, but the problem is that any such individual would quickly be stoned to death in those countries for such behavior.

[Rollo]

Wait, wait, wait. Let me see if I have this straight. This guy in Florida shouldn't burn the Koran because it might hurt somebody's feelings, but we should allow the Mosque to be built, damn the people's feelings? Do I have that right?

Come on people consistency is a good thing.

In both cases (Mosque and burning) they have the right to do it. But in both cases, it is the wrong thing to do.

You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
- Matthew 5:38-44

The "Mosque" as you continue to mislabel, should be built because of the free exercise of religion contained in the First Amendment to the US Constitution.
However, this guy in Florida shouldn't burn the Koran because as a minister of the Gospel he supposedly works to a higher standard. Hating his enemy is in direct defiance of Christ whose Gospel he preaches.

People do have the right to practice whatever religion they wish. Christians DO NOT have the right to hate people of other faiths.

[Eki]

Here in the US it would probably be hard to find a non Asian person working in a Chinese restaurant. If you have an American food restaurant of the same size and don't hire at least some people other than "white Americans" you would probably be accused of discrimination very quickly.
It's called a "Chinese restaurant" for a reason. There aren't many black or white Chinese. Nor there are probably many non-Greeks working in a Greek restaurant either. Do you also consider racist that there are only Chinese food in a Chinese restaurant and not for example hamburgers, hot dogs and pizzas?

[markabilly]

The "Mosque" as you continue to mislabel, should be built because of the free exercise of religion contained in the First Amendment to the US Constitution.
However, this guy in Florida shouldn't burn the Koran because as a minister of the Gospel he supposedly works to a higher standard. Hating his enemy is in direct defiance of Christ whose Gospel he preaches.

People do have the right to practice whatever religion they wish. Christians DO NOT have the right to hate people of other faiths.

Just because one "can" does not mean one "should".

There is no absolute right to "free excercise of religion" under the first amendment; quite to the contrary.

And the moslem religion is as repungant to the christain religion as is the nazi religion. However, one should not burn the koran as one should read it and get to know the enemies of children and enlightment as well as their religious basis for their horrid actions, just like the jews and "good germans" should have read mein kampf and realized that everything that would happen in germany, had already been written some five to ten years before it did happen..... :rolleyes:

[markabilly]

In which ways, precisely? And would you include gay people in that comment?

Not once have I experienced any of this alleged positive discrimination.
what?? are you gay?
move to an islamic country even a "moderate" country such as Saudi, and you will get all the positive discrimination you want



The diplomat, Ali Ahmad Asseri, the first secretary of the Saudi consulate in Los Angeles, has informed U.S. Department of Homeland Security officials that Saudi officials have refused to renew his diplomatic passport and effectively terminated his job after discovering he was gay and was close friends with a Jewish woman.
“My life is in a great danger here and if I go back to Saudi Arabia, they will kill me openly in broad daylight,” Asseri said Saturday in an email to NBC.



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39118941/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa

yeap, gay and friends with a jewish woman, oh yeah, he needs a good stoning, 4 sure :dozey: :dozey:

or do you mean the type of discrimination in the USA based on being male and white, something which may not go in great brit??? :rolleyes:

[Rollo]

There is no absolute right to "free excercise of religion" under the first amendment; quite to the contrary.





Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
- First Amendment to the US Constitution
http://www.america.gov/constitution.html?gclid=CLHEuODkgaQCFROmbwodmk8EHQ

If the free exercise of religion is not an "absolute right" then every right including free speech is also not an "absolute right". In which case the whole concept of "absolute right" at law is totally fallacious, and therefore your argument is worthless.

If you are right and there is no "absolute right" specifically to the free exercise of religion, then you need to be reminded that I never said that there was. That is you trying to put words into my mouth and therefore a strawman argument.
Arguing through fallacy makes you look sort of ignorant, and the fact that you weren't aware to the words of the First Amendment merely doubles the position.

Either you argue from a false position entirely in which case your argument is worthless, or your specific complaint is faulty and therefore also worthless.

Oh do try to use an actual argument next time.

[markabilly]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
- First Amendment to the US Constitution
http://www.america.gov/constitution.html?gclid=CLHEuODkgaQCFROmbwodmk8EHQ

If the free exercise of religion is not an "absolute right" then every right including free speech is also not an "absolute right". In which case the whole concept of "absolute right" at law is totally fallacious, and therefore your argument is worthless.

If you are right and there is no "absolute right" specifically to the free exercise of religion, then you need to be reminded that I never said that there was. That is you trying to put words into my mouth and therefore a strawman argument.
Arguing through fallacy makes you look sort of ignorant, and the fact that you weren't aware to the words of the First Amendment merely doubles the position.

Either you argue from a false position entirely in which case your argument is worthless, or your specific complaint is faulty and therefore also worthless.

Oh do try to use an actual argument next time.
Never has been and never will be an absolute right of free speech or freedom of religion; all are tempered by many exceptions, among which has to do with manitaining society and keeping repect for rights of others not to be stomped upon, such as putting a mosque in a site that is wholly inapproriate or in the famous words of a certain jurist: no right to be screaming fire in a crowded theater.

[Robinho]

as far as i know, Nazi isn't a religon. and Markabilly you are part right. The Moslem religion is repugnant, as is Chtristanity, Judaism and any polarising ficticous movement that exercises its power through fear over its followers.

Any right minded person should be able to exercise tolerance and acceptance, peace and whatever else without needing many thousands of year olds teachings that have been translated and abused over time and of which there is no proof of their basis or existence.

This world needs organised religon as much as 9/11 victims need an Islamic centre in New York. i fail to see how religon can play any part, in any of its forms towards the advancement of human society.

Feel free to practice it, i'll defend your right too, but the minute religon starts being used as a basis for discrimination, crime or killing against any side then it ceases to deserve any support in my book. And that goes for the intolerant radical christian movement as it does for the radical muslim terrorists. We don't need you or your God (you realise its supposed to be the same one don't you?)

[chuck34]

You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
- Matthew 5:38-44

The "Mosque" as you continue to mislabel, should be built because of the free exercise of religion contained in the First Amendment to the US Constitution.
However, this guy in Florida shouldn't burn the Koran because as a minister of the Gospel he supposedly works to a higher standard. Hating his enemy is in direct defiance of Christ whose Gospel he preaches.

People do have the right to practice whatever religion they wish. Christians DO NOT have the right to hate people of other faiths.

You can call it a community center all you want, doesn't change a thing. And someone had better "correct" the President, he keeps calling it a mosque.

The First Amendment does say that this mosque can be built, and I have said as muich. That does not mean that it should be built, or that it won't offend a large portion of the people that they are claiming to want to "reach out" to.

Who are you to tell this preacher in Florida how he should interpret the Gospel? For the record, I agree with you. This Koran burning is a disgusting thing that should not be done. But just like the Mosque guys, he does have the First Amendment right do do it.

[chuck34]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
- First Amendment to the US Constitution
http://www.america.gov/constitution.html?gclid=CLHEuODkgaQCFROmbwodmk8EHQ

If the free exercise of religion is not an "absolute right" then every right including free speech is also not an "absolute right". In which case the whole concept of "absolute right" at law is totally fallacious, and therefore your argument is worthless.

If you are right and there is no "absolute right" specifically to the free exercise of religion, then you need to be reminded that I never said that there was. That is you trying to put words into my mouth and therefore a strawman argument.
Arguing through fallacy makes you look sort of ignorant, and the fact that you weren't aware to the words of the First Amendment merely doubles the position.

Either you argue from a false position entirely in which case your argument is worthless, or your specific complaint is faulty and therefore also worthless.

Oh do try to use an actual argument next time.

Again, what part of CONGRESS don't you understand? Do you know that at the time of the writing of the Constitution that there were official religions in a few states? The First Amendment only applies to the Federal government. The state or city of New York can mostly do as they please. The zoning board could even deny the request for a building permit on the basis that the community peace would be disturbed by all of the prrotests that are sure to surround this place. Congress won't be involved.

[Roamy]

All we have to do is declare that Islam/Muslim is not a religion. Then all this bullsh!t will end

[donKey jote]

I hereby declare all world religions are sects. :p

[Eki]

http://www.bibledonkeys.com/


There are many stories in the Holy Bible that include donkeys. One Donkey actually talked in human words (Numbers 22:21-34).

All hail the Holy Donkey!

[Roamy]

Say YEA to him !!!!!!!

[airshifter]

It's called a "Chinese restaurant" for a reason. There aren't many black or white Chinese. Nor there are probably many non-Greeks working in a Greek restaurant either. Do you also consider racist that there are only Chinese food in a Chinese restaurant and not for example hamburgers, hot dogs and pizzas?

As usual, you're avoiding the point. Why is one case labeled discrimination and the other is not?

[Eki]

As usual, you're avoiding the point. Why is one case labeled discrimination and the other is not?
There could be many reasons. For example, the restaurant may be a family business, where the workers are members of the same family and therefore naturally often of the same race. I remember seeing restaurants in the American countryside where all the workers were white. Actually I paid attention to the fact that in big cities like New York City and Boston workers at Mac Donald's and toll booths were usually Hispanic or black and in small towns of New York and Massachusetts were usually white. I didn't think it was because of discrimination but because of demographics: Big cities had a lot of blacks and Hispanics and small towns were mainly white.

[glauistean]

All we have to do is declare that Islam/Muslim is not a religion. Then all this bullsh!t will end
You can actually use the word bullsh!t and not get banned? Wow, what a leap of progressive thinking.

It is just like the comment you made just now. Who do you think you are that you deem to have a monopoly on religion? It does not matter which religion you speak of. There are more people combined in the world that are of different religions than there are Christians.

You can declare the idiotic pronouncement you wish. It will not detract from the fact that the religion will exist along with your stupidity.

[glauistean]

Why are so many muslims migrating from their home countries. They should just stay and fix what they have and can be completely sharia compliant. Many countries are now talking deportation. I certainly will vote yes if the vote ever comes
Of course you will. All you want is to send unfortunates back to the hell holes you yourself with your political ideals helped foster. Ignorance is bliss. In your case it must be absolutely hilarious.

[glauistean]

What are you mumbling about?

point is and remains is that the koran expresses much hatred for infidels, and preaches it just like mein kampf preaches racial superiority and hatred for those of different religious views, ethnic and racial backgrounds

maybe some nazis should go establish "a community center with a place or prayer" at a former concentration camp site for those of the nazi faith, and make it availble for everyone, including jews? that should make it all just fine and dandy.

This is a religion whose teachings actively encourage hideous murders and excutions for things as MAYBE having sex out of wedlock or MAYBE being gay, and multiple marriges to girls as young as 9 years old....

The fact that moslems were killed at 911 and many more get murdered everyday by other moslems, children and inncoents blown up in car bombs and so forth, all in the name of the great prophet...and justified by their "good book", well that is all the more reason to condemn this so-called religion as barbaric and unworthy of existence.... :rolleyes:

BTW-Just like the stalinists of russia and the nazis of germany, those nazi and communists had the habit of executing plenty of their peers, fellow believers and brothers in arm.......no different than those islamic types of governments today.

Just as those religions ( nazi and stalinist communism was and is a religion) that feed on the death of children have no justification for their existence, same is to be said for islam.

islam needs a brave new prophet to lead them from their barbarity, but the problem is that any such individual would quickly be stoned to death in those countries for such behavior.

Markabilly,

Do you understand the difference between religion and politics? Do you know what the difference is between the Quran and the Bible is? DO you know the difference between Gone with the Wind and Wuthering Heights?

The Gulag Archipelago and Mein Kampf?

Do you know the difference in ideology between Pol Pot and Adolf Hitler, Mao Tse Tung and Ho Chi Minh?

Do you understand the difference between generalization and selectivity?

What is a community center and what is a Mosque.

Simple question Mark.

Even you should be able to decipher my "mumblings" and explain to all of us what it is you meant by your incoherent and trite attempt at being informed.
Please explain to everyone reading this forum what you mean because I'm sure many of the "foreign" participants will find awe inspiring that a person living in the US is ignorant and uneducated in so far as to claim that the book Mein Kampf and the political ideology of communism is a religion.

Mark, save yourself from eternal ridicule. If you can. Answer the question and if you wish to berate me, go ahead. I'm old enough to take infantile anger over the internet.

[Rollo]

The fact that moslems were killed at 911 and many more get murdered everyday by other moslems, children and inncoents blown up in car bombs and so forth, all in the name of the great prophet...and justified by their "good book", well that is all the more reason to condemn this so-called religion as barbaric and unworthy of existence.... :rolleyes:


And that would be different to the great god Dollar who sent the United States to Iraq where between 96,000 and 106,000 civilians have died and Afghanistan where 14,000 and 34,000 civilians have died... and justified by their "good book".
Has the United States bought back the blood that was shed at 9/11 with civilian casualties? Now tell me who is "barbaric and unworthy of existence"?

[Roamy]

Of course you will. All you want is to send unfortunates back to the hell holes you yourself with your political ideals helped foster. Ignorance is bliss. In your case it must be absolutely hilarious.

Everyone can stand up and try to fix "their own hell hole" But don't create one for me. Hopefully you are not from here and will stay put wherever you are.

And you are absolutely correct - I would immediately suspend all immigration and fix our pathetic system. Gee now if I want to be overrun with illegals I would be "smart"

[Garry Walker]

Of course you will. All you want is to send unfortunates back to the hell holes you yourself with your political ideals helped foster.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7w64fbqYQY

[markabilly]

Markabilly,

Do you understand the difference between religion and politics? Do you know what the difference is between the Quran and the Bible is? DO you know the difference between Gone with the Wind and Wuthering Heights?

The Gulag Archipelago and Mein Kampf?

Do you know the difference in ideology between Pol Pot and Adolf Hitler, Mao Tse Tung and Ho Chi Minh?

Do you understand the difference between generalization and selectivity?

What is a community center and what is a Mosque.

Simple question Mark.

Even you should be able to decipher my "mumblings" and explain to all of us what it is you meant by your incoherent and trite attempt at being informed.
Please explain to everyone reading this forum what you mean because I'm sure many of the "foreign" participants will find awe inspiring that a person living in the US is ignorant and uneducated in so far as to claim that the book Mein Kampf and the political ideology of communism is a religion.

Mark, save yourself from eternal ridicule. If you can. Answer the question and if you wish to berate me, go ahead. I'm old enough to take infantile anger over the internet.

Hhahaha, what is wrong?

Got tired of being an argumentative troll over in the IRL forum?
You will be in good comapny with EKI, but at least he has a sense of humor.

Obviously, you have failed to understand where they are identical, and even more to the point, fail to understand the definition of religion in its blind loyalty to ideas. Social science is just another religion, and the use of the word "science" is misleading, indeed, psuedo-science would be more appropriate.

Now you can go back to the IRL forum and worry over danica and argue with and bash everyone over there about how dumb and ignorant they are. :dozey:

[markabilly]

And that would be different to the great god Dollar who sent the United States to Iraq where between 96,000 and 106,000 civilians have died and Afghanistan where 14,000 and 34,000 civilians have died... and justified by their "good book".
Has the United States bought back the blood that was shed at 9/11 with civilian casualties? Now tell me who is "barbaric and unworthy of existence"?
???

tis a little bit different, in that they were not deliberately aiming to kill children and innocents and then celebrating their deaths in the name of some pedophile prophet and god.

OTOH, I questioned long ago, when being serious and not funnin you folks, why be there at all...... :(

[Camelopard]

???

tis a little bit different, in that they were not deliberately aiming to kill children and innocents and then celebrating their deaths in the name of some pedophile prophet and god.

OTOH, I questioned long ago, when being serious and not funnin you folks, why be there at all...... :(


These guys may not have been celebrating in the name of any religion, but these are still despicable acts. So much for trying to win the hearts and minds.......

http://www.smh.com.au/world/kill-team-kept-civilian-body-parts-as-trophies-20100909-153ba.html

" 'Kill team' kept civilian body parts as trophies

Simon Mann HERALD CORRESPONDENT

September 10, 2010

WASHINGTON: Five US soldiers deliberately killed Afghan civilians with grenades, before photographing the corpses and keeping body parts as trophies, according to Pentagon investigators.
A 25-year-old sergeant, Calvin Gibbs, was the alleged ringleader, reportedly joking about how easy it would be to "toss a grenade at someone and kill them", according to US Army charge sheets.
The five are charged with murdering three Afghan men and forming a "kill team". After blowing up and shooting the Afghans, the soldiers allegedly took photos of the bodies, before souveniring fingers, leg bones and a skull, later discovered among their possessions."

[F1boat]

These guys may not have been celebrating in the name of any religion, but these are still despicable acts. So much for trying to win the hearts and minds.......

http://www.smh.com.au/world/kill-team-kept-civilian-body-parts-as-trophies-20100909-153ba.html

" 'Kill team' kept civilian body parts as trophies

Simon Mann HERALD CORRESPONDENT

September 10, 2010

WASHINGTON: Five US soldiers deliberately killed Afghan civilians with grenades, before photographing the corpses and keeping body parts as trophies, according to Pentagon investigators.
A 25-year-old sergeant, Calvin Gibbs, was the alleged ringleader, reportedly joking about how easy it would be to "toss a grenade at someone and kill them", according to US Army charge sheets.
The five are charged with murdering three Afghan men and forming a "kill team". After blowing up and shooting the Afghans, the soldiers allegedly took photos of the bodies, before souveniring fingers, leg bones and a skull, later discovered among their possessions."

Horrible, absolutely horrible...

[Bob Riebe]

Horrible, absolutely horrible...

"America's CBS News described those involved in the killings as belonging to "the platoon from hell", equating the alleged crimes to abuses committed by US troops at Abu Ghraib prison in Baghdad in 2004."

OH, you mean they committed college fraternity hazing?

OH the humanity!

[Eki]

"America's CBS News described those involved in the killings as belonging to "the platoon from hell", equating the alleged crimes to abuses committed by US troops at Abu Ghraib prison in Baghdad in 2004."

OH, you mean they committed college fraternity hazing?

OH the humanity!
Is killing people with grenades considered college fraternity hazing in the US? Thank God I didn't attend college in the US.

I must say I have more understanding for people who kill for some prophet than for people who kill just for fun and sadism.

[gloomyDAY]

"America's CBS News described those involved in the killings as belonging to "the platoon from hell", equating the alleged crimes to abuses committed by US troops at Abu Ghraib prison in Baghdad in 2004."

OH, you mean they committed college fraternity hazing?

OH the humanity!Being physically assaulted and threatened isn't considered hazing, it's against the law and against Army protocol. This is an example of a complete breakdown of a unit, which is corrosive and can spread like a wildfire to other soldiers as well.

Therefore, I'm quite dumbfounded that you're so nonchalant.

[Bob Riebe]

Is killing people with grenades considered college fraternity hazing in the US? Thank God I didn't attend college in the US.

I must say I have more understanding for people who kill for some prophet than for people who kill just for fun and sadism.

How many were killed with grenades in Abu Graib?

CBS made an analogy that is asininely moronic and you seem to suck it up willingly.

In your last statement, I far prefer to be among the latter than the former; with the latter one can simply go ones own way; with the former trying to walk away will get you murdered for not obeying a long dead sadist.

[F1boat]

Therefore, I'm quite dumbfounded that you're so nonchalant.

I am not. Rightwings are like this.

[Roamy]

Hey maybe Ms Morris can paint the ceiling - kinda like the sistine chapel

[Uk_property]

I know for sure the one did 11 Sept. is the one benefit from the result nowadays,

But i do not like choosing this area to have a property for Mosque.

[glauistean]

I know for sure the one did 11 Sept. is the one benefit from the result nowadays,

But i do not like choosing this area to have a property for Mosque.

One last time. This is not a Mosque. It's a community center and it has a prayer area for Muslims, Jews and Christians.

[glauistean]

You can call it a community center all you want, doesn't change a thing. And someone had better "correct" the President, he keeps calling it a mosque.

The First Amendment does say that this mosque can be built, and I have said as muich. That does not mean that it should be built, or that it won't offend a large portion of the people that they are claiming to want to "reach out" to.

Who are you to tell this preacher in Florida how he should interpret the Gospel? For the record, I agree with you. This Koran burning is a disgusting thing that should not be done. But just like the Mosque guys, he does have the First Amendment right do do it.

Do you know what a mosque is? Apparently not. This building is a community center and whether the president cals it a mosque or not it is and will be a community center. Try as you may to label it the way you wish. That's your prerogative and one that is incorrect.

[glauistean]

Again, what part of CONGRESS don't you understand? Do you know that at the time of the writing of the Constitution that there were official religions in a few states? The First Amendment only applies to the Federal government. The state or city of New York can mostly do as they please. The zoning board could even deny the request for a building permit on the basis that the community peace would be disturbed by all of the prrotests that are sure to surround this place. Congress won't be involved.

You are so , so obviously not a lawyer. Certainly not a constitutional one.

[glauistean]

Radical Islamics are a very small minority of the Muslims, like the IRA were a small minority of the Roman Catholics. The acts of the IRA didn't IMO justify burning the Bible or Catholic churches. Burning the Bible or a Catholic church would have made also other Catholics than the IRA angry, just like burning the Koran will make also other Muslims than the radical Islamics angry.

I would also ike to point out that the IRA was not the only organization in Northern Ireland. As a matter of fact there were more Protestant, Presbyterian terrorist groups than the IRA, specifically the PIRA. Provisional IRA. There was the UDA, UDF, UDR , Red Hand of Ulster to name a few. On top of that there was a 98% Protestant/Presbyterian police force.

What did the PI RA do. They committed some horrible crimes but there were groups that were totally community based.They stopped robbery, murder, rape, drug trafficking in their own area.

On the other side there was not much organization and it is alarming that the IRA, when the troubles in Northern Ireland are brought up are the only group known in this country.

Shankhill Butchers, a group of loyalist terrorists that roamed the streets of Catholic neighborhoods and snatched Innocent civilians off the streets. They then proceeded to "butcher" them to death. Their crime. They were Catholic. When caught, by chance, a victim whose throat was slashed and was almost dead was fortunate enough to have a cab driver see him and take him to a hospital.

It was a crime the RUC could not cover up and soon the gang was caught. One of them actually had a butcher store and cut his victims and allowed them to bleed to dead while he inflicted the most horrible of crimes.

So this one is for Riebe. You are trying to justify torture by throwing out an issue pertaining to Abu Ghraib. I saw the same when the right wingers were up in arms over the overthrowing of Milosevic by the Clinton administration because there was no reason to be there. When it was discovered that in a concentration camp that you NEVER hear the likes of Riebe or Aprop mention because they are unfamiliar with it or choose to ignore it it was named Srebrenica. 8,000 murdered in one week in June 1995.

The argument given by the Bill Kristols and the Karl Roves of the world was that invading Iraq was more important because of the number. So , was it wrong to invade the Baltic countries where the US did not lose one man but saved thousands.

Riebe and all you people bitching about a Mosque when it is a community center. Answer this simple question since I can point to a number of Muslim(Muslem) posts on this very forum. Why did you support the invasion of Iraq?

Was it to protect it's citizens from Hussein? If so, why the vitriol since Iraq and Afghanistan are both over 90% Muslim (Muslem)?

[Mark in Oshawa]

One last time. This is not a Mosque. It's a community center and it has a prayer area for Muslims, Jews and Christians.

Sure it is....and I have some swampland to sell you in Florida....


You can believe what you want, but people in NYC know what it is, and they know there are millions of places they would accept a mosque.....just not this place.

Last I looked, cities turn down zoning applications all the time......and do it legally.

I suggest Chuck understands the US Constitution just fine, he is an American who has actually read it and read the people who wrote out the ideas for it.....

The reality of it is, no one is stopping anyone from being a Muslim, or being a member of a mosque. All the opponents are saying is this location would be in poor taste....poor taste..you know, sort of like when the Orangemen would march through Catholic parts of Northern Ireland, or the poor taste the IRA would have putting bombs in markets....doing things to pi$$ off the other guy...

[Bob Riebe]

I would also ike to point out that the IRA was not the only organization in Northern Ireland. As a matter of fact there were more Protestant, Presbyterian terrorist groups than the IRA, specifically the PIRA. Provisional IRA. There was the UDA, UDF, UDR , Red Hand of Ulster to name a few. On top of that there was a 98% Protestant/Presbyterian police force.

What did the PI RA do. They committed some horrible crimes but there were groups that were totally community based.They stopped robbery, murder, rape, drug trafficking in their own area.

On the other side there was not much organization and it is alarming that the IRA, when the troubles in Northern Ireland are brought up are the only group known in this country.

Shankhill Butchers,--- The Shankill Butchers killed at least 30 people (including a significant number of Protestants) a group of loyalist terrorists that roamed the streets of Catholic neighborhoods and snatched Innocent civilians off the streets. They then proceeded to "butcher" them to death. Their crime. They were Catholic. When caught, by chance, a victim whose throat was slashed and was almost dead was fortunate enough to have a cab driver see him and take him to a hospital.

It was a crime the RUC could not cover up and soon the gang was caught. One of them actually had a butcher store and cut his victims and allowed them to bleed to dead while he inflicted the most horrible of crimes.

So this one is for Riebe. You are trying to justify torture by throwing out an issue pertaining to Abu Ghraib. I saw the same when the right wingers were up in arms over the overthrowing of Milosevic by the Clinton administration because there was no reason to be there. When it was discovered that in a concentration camp that you NEVER hear the likes of Riebe or Aprop mention because they are unfamiliar with it or choose to ignore it it was named Srebrenica. 8,000 murdered in one week in June 1995.

The argument given by the Bill Kristols and the Karl Roves of the world was that invading Iraq was more important because of the number. So , was it wrong to invade the Baltic countries where the US did not lose one man but saved thousands.

Riebe and all you people bitching about a Mosque when it is a community center. Answer this simple question since I can point to a number of Muslim(Muslem) posts on this very forum. Why did you support the invasion of Iraq?

Was it to protect it's citizens from Hussein? If so, why the vitriol since Iraq and Afghanistan are both over 90% Muslim (Muslem)?
Ah- Weedhopper- show me where I complain about the mosque. "Rauf and his partner, Sharif el-Gamal, proposed building a Muslim community center and mosque on the Burlington site at 45 Park Place..."

CBS made the asinine analogy, comparing what was happening with the college fraternity level items at Abu Grhaib Weedhopper, not I.

You are the one making an asinine analogy about between the Balkans and Iraq, no one else.
What is your point, and what is it based on other than your faulty logic?
How many people died in Abu Grhaib?

[Eki]

All the opponents are saying is this location would be in poor taste....poor taste..you know, sort of like when the Orangemen would march through Catholic parts of Northern Ireland, or the poor taste the IRA would have putting bombs in markets....doing things to pi$$ off the other guy...
It's more like relatives of the Orangemen bringing flowers to the graves of the Catholics died in the political violence, or like relatives of the IRA bringing flowers to the graves of the Protestants.

[Bob Riebe]

[quote="Eki"]It's more like relatives of the Orangemen bringing flowers to the graves of the Catholics died in the political violence, or like relatives of the IRA bringing flowers to the graves of the Protestants.[/QUOTte]
No it is more like gansters sending flowers to the funerals of those they had murdered.

[Koz]

It's more like relatives of the Orangemen bringing flowers to the graves of the Catholics died in the political violence, or like relatives of the IRA bringing flowers to the graves of the Protestants.

Not at all. This is a blatantly political move, as soon as they have a mosque, someone will start using it in their propaganda.

This is akin to making an German statue in the middle of Auschwitz or Treblinka. Yeah, all Germans aren't evil men with strange mustaches and a swastika tattooed to their souls but we all know what kind of an outrage that would cause.

What if Israelis decide to build a synagogue on a site where innocent Palestinian civilians were killed? I'm sure that would result in some assclown firing a few hundred rockets into it.

This is all a damn disgrace. Do you honestly think the people behind this do not have a hidden agenda?
Really? Is there no better place?
Let's not be naive.

glauistean: Mosque/community center - yeah right do you think any Jews, Christians, Hindus or Buddhists would visit?
Do you think they would be welcome - as welcome as a fellow muslims? Do you think they would want to go there?

Do you see Muslims, Jews or Hindus actively going to the community centers we (and the Village People) all know and love, the YMCA?

Get real.

The sooner we stop being politically correct and call thing how they are the better off we will be.

[Eki]

Do you see Muslims, Jews or Hindus actively going to the community centers we (and the Village People) all know and love, the YMCA?

Why not, if we'd take the C (Christian) out off it and didn't replace it with another letter like I, J , B or H.

[glauistean]

Sure it is....and I have some swampland to sell you in Florida....


You can believe what you want, but people in NYC know what it is, and they know there are millions of places they would accept a mosque.....just not this place.

Last I looked, cities turn down zoning applications all the time......and do it legally.

I suggest Chuck understands the US Constitution just fine, he is an American who has actually read it and read the people who wrote out the ideas for it.....

The reality of it is, no one is stopping anyone from being a Muslim, or being a member of a mosque. All the opponents are saying is this location would be in poor taste....poor taste..you know, sort of like when the Orangemen would march through Catholic parts of Northern Ireland, or the poor taste the IRA would have putting bombs in markets....doing things to pi$$ off the other guy...

Again, you show your ignorance. The Orangemen are not and is not a terrorist organization and does not condone any violent behavior.

Why are you speaking for Chuck? I'm sure he can do that for himself.

As for your Mosque argument you can do everything you wish to state that it is something it is not. The one thing that is clear is that you are a religious bigot.

Do you know where Weaver the FBI killer is buried? Do you know where the lunatic Branch Dividians are buried, in particular Vernon Howell aka David Koresh? After you have the chance you will tell us but I'm sure you get the point about him and his Jim Jones brand of Christianity and there was and as far as I know any components as to where he is buried or his followers or the unfortunate children.

What does the grave site of Koresh and the Branch Dividians have to do with the supposed Mosque. It is the simplicity of the fact that a religion can be demonized for praying because some asshol!s believed in some form of extremism are dictating to people like you what it is you believe. You hate Muslims because you know nothing of the Muslim faith. You refuse to accept that it is a community center and not a Mosque and it is not even visible from Ground Zero. Muslims died there too. Christians in the US can be the most naive bunch I have ever come across. They lash and scream at anything that they are told building their mega churches and then clapping themselves on the back as they throw the money into the offering basket and listen to their preachers as they live in their luxury mansions. The same people that seem to have forgotten the "camel and eye of the needle" .

So do your bitching and moaning. I won't bother answering you anymore on this thread.

The contribution is indeed startling and sad that this is what we are now producing and the idiots don't even see it.

[glauistean]

Ah- Weedhopper- show me where I complain about the mosque. "Rauf and his partner, Sharif el-Gamal, proposed building a Muslim community center and mosque on the Burlington site at 45 Park Place..."

CBS made the asinine analogy, comparing what was happening with the college fraternity level items at Abu Grhaib Weedhopper, not I.

You are the one making an asinine analogy about between the Balkans and Iraq, no one else.
What is your point, and what is it based on other than your faulty logic?
How many people died in Abu Grhaib?
Why is there no analogy between the Balkans and Iraq? I really do not care whether it is only me asking for an answer or not.

I bet I can make a couple of observations as to why you don't like the comparison. One , it was not George Bush that ordered it and it was Bill Clinton. Secondly, you don't know anything about the Balkans and it's people nor do you care. But, you hate Muslims and supported the Iraq war because a Republican stated it. So you Biebe care nothing about human life as long as that person is an American and a Republican.

Boy, you guy's sure did drop all the talk about Pat Tillman , a real hero and Jessica Lynch another when you found out they were liberal in their ideals. Boy, Sean Hannity cancelled an interview with Jessica when he found out.

She, apparently is not a good enough American for Hannity. Only soldiers he admires are those that vote Republican.

[chuck34]

Sure it is....and I have some swampland to sell you in Florida....


You can believe what you want, but people in NYC know what it is, and they know there are millions of places they would accept a mosque.....just not this place.

Last I looked, cities turn down zoning applications all the time......and do it legally.

I suggest Chuck understands the US Constitution just fine, he is an American who has actually read it and read the people who wrote out the ideas for it.....

The reality of it is, no one is stopping anyone from being a Muslim, or being a member of a mosque. All the opponents are saying is this location would be in poor taste....poor taste..you know, sort of like when the Orangemen would march through Catholic parts of Northern Ireland, or the poor taste the IRA would have putting bombs in markets....doing things to pi$$ off the other guy...

Thanks Mark, but I think it's time to give up on "glauistean". If you don't agree with him you are a moron, idiot, dumbass, red-neck, or something else. He has no concept of debate and disagreement. It's his way or the highway. And he's not even as fun as Eki. I could go on and on about how much I've studied the Constitution, founding fathers, read their communications, on and on. It would make no difference. He has the "right answer" and if you don't agree, you're a moron. Whatever.

[glauistean]

Thanks Mark, but I think it's time to give up on "glauistean". If you don't agree with him you are a moron, idiot, dumbass, red-neck, or something else. He has no concept of debate and disagreement. It's his way or the highway. And he's not even as fun as Eki. I could go on and on about how much I've studied the Constitution, founding fathers, read their communications, on and on. It would make no difference. He has the "right answer" and if you don't agree, you're a moron. Whatever.




Ahhh, look at the love. They "love" because they agree. Then it is hypocritical if you just won't listen to me< Glauistean. . Don't you see what it is you are actually saying?? Maybe it's above your head.

As for the Constitution. You obviously missed great portions and preambles of the articles. Boost yourself in anyway you can. What I see is an uninformed group of nobodies.

[glauistean]

"Why is there no analogy between the Balkans and Iraq?"

Hey Bobby, why isn't there an analogy between the Balkans and Iraq? Tick Tock

[Bob Riebe]

Why is there no analogy between the Balkans and Iraq? I really do not care whether it is only me asking for an answer or not.

I bet I can make a couple of observations as to why you don't like the comparison. One , it was not George Bush that ordered it and it was Bill Clinton. Secondly, you don't know anything about the Balkans and it's people nor do you care. But, you hate Muslims and supported the Iraq war because a Republican stated it. So you Biebe care nothing about human life as long as that person is an American and a Republican.

Boy, you guy's sure did drop all the talk about Pat Tillman , a real hero and Jessica Lynch another when you found out they were liberal in their ideals. Boy, Sean Hannity cancelled an interview with Jessica when he found out.

She, apparently is not a good enough American for Hannity. Only soldiers he admires are those that vote Republican.

Answer the question.
It should not be hard.

Or you can just babble on, most trolls are good at that.

[donKey jote]

Or you can just babble on, most trolls are good at that.

Why do you look at the spot of dust in your brother's eye? But you do not see a big stick in your own eye!

[Eki]

Why do you look at the spot of dust in your brother's eye? But you do not see a big stick in your own eye!
Jesus :rolleyes:

[Bob Riebe]

Why do you look at the spot of dust in your brother's eye? But you do not see a big stick in your own eye!
Why don't you?

[donKey jote]

Jaysus :rolleyes:

It rained hard. The water in the rivers came up high. The winds were strong and beat on the house. But it did not fall down. It was built on a rock.

[chuck34]

Withdrawn. Too tired of arguing with a fool

[Mark in Oshawa]

Ahhh, look at the love. They "love" because they agree. Then it is hypocritical if you just won't listen to me< Glauistean. . Don't you see what it is you are actually saying?? Maybe it's above your head.

As for the Constitution. You obviously missed great portions and preambles of the articles. Boost yourself in anyway you can. What I see is an uninformed group of nobodies.
We read, we listen, we don't get. Call us stupid all you want...but you in turn don't listen, don't learn to facts dumped in your lap at times either....

[Hondo]

The irony of this entire issue is there are those that empathize with the Islamic-Muslim view that America brought the events of September 11Th upon herself by crimes, past, present, real or imagined that ignited a smoldering burn of Islamic hatred fail to understand that the establishment of this community center will do the same, in reverse.

[ArrowsFA1]

...there are those that empathize with the Islamic-Muslim view that America brought the events of September 11Th upon herself...
Do those in the US understand that view? I'm sure the US population would not agree with it, but do they understand why people would think it?

One of the things about 9/11 for me was the (understandable) reaction to hit back and hit back hard. The problem is that hitting back was, and remains, like playing pin the tail on the donkey with a blindfold. The normal rules of engagement, ingrained through the Cold War years, simply do not apply any more.

[Eki]

Do those in the US understand that view? I'm sure the US population would not agree with it, but do they understand why people would think it?

One of the things about 9/11 for me was the (understandable) reaction to hit back and hit back hard. The problem is that hitting back was, and remains, like playing pin the tail on the donkey with a blindfold. The normal rules of engagement, ingrained through the Cold War years, simply do not apply any more.
Yesterday, they showed a documentary about Afghan fighters. The fighters they interviewed seemed very motivated and sure that they will win in the end. Many, especially the older and "mellowed" ones said they'll put down their weapons when the "American and the British crusaders", as they called them, have left Afghanistan, but one of the younger ones said he will continue the "jihad" abroad. Small kids they interviewed were eager to grow up so they can join the "jihad" and become fighters.

[Roamy]

I see where the muslims stormed a catholic church and killed 50. Now they want to proclaim war against the Christians.

It is time for us to cut off all immigration and visas to Muslims. And then start packing the ones up already in here. It is just a matter of time.

[BDunnell]

Answer the question.
It should not be hard.

Or you can just babble on, most trolls are good at that.

Is there a non-rabidly-right-wing member of these forums you haven't accused of being a troll, or, as it's otherwise known, disagreeing with you?

[Bob Riebe]

Is there a non-rabidly-right-wing member of these forums you haven't accused of being a troll, or, as it's otherwise known, disagreeing with you?
Any one who defends their rhetoric.

Eki seems to float between trolling and rhetorical exchange.

Any one, who simply makes an outrageous, or vacuous accusation, (or simply insults others without at least trying to defend the one's own rhetoric) can be nothing more than a troll.

[markabilly]

Why do you look at the spot of dust in your brother's eye? But you do not see a big stick in your own eye!


See, even the devil can quote scripture.......matthew or shakespeare or both


Jesus :rolleyes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus

If that is too complicated, try this:

http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus

[glauistean]

Any one who defends their rhetoric.

Eki seems to float between trolling and rhetorical exchange.

Any one, who simply makes an outrageous, or vacuous accusation, (or simply insults others without at least trying to defend the one's own rhetoric) can be nothing more than a troll.
What do you define as a troll? Any person with a modicum of intelligence probably does what I do when they see your posts. Laugh!

The thread is about the center in NY close to where the Twin Towers were and it so happens that this is a recreation center with prayer area for Muslims.

Now all you right wingers have got to take a good look at yourselves. On the one hand there is a post above that states that a Christian church was attacked today and as a result all Muslims should be rounded up and deported.Now, I will bet this right wing Roamy was one of those that was all for the invasion of Iraq and bringing democracy to the region. A region of Muslims. So Roamy and Bobby. When did you start to hate the Muslims? After Obama was elected and you had no war to pound your fists to your chests with?

Bobby, you don't see the analogy between the war in Iraq and the Balkans?

Maybe it's a matter that you are too obtuse to see.

[markabilly]

I see where the muslims stormed a catholic church and killed 50. Now they want to proclaim war against the Christians.

It is time for us to cut off all immigration and visas to Muslims. And then start packing the ones up already in here. It is just a matter of time.

great idea!!!!

and then get rid of those jews and catholics as well

and those baptists, they are worse then any of these others and as bad as Moslems when it comes to not permitting drinkin and chasing broads who are not your wife

but first toss anybody named glauistean

[Bob Riebe]

What do you define as a troll? Any person with a modicum of intelligence probably does what I do...
Only a person of with a modicum of intelligence would do- what you do.

What I said was addressed to the person who asked the question.

[gloomyDAY]

I see where the muslims stormed a catholic church and killed 50. Now they want to proclaim war against the Christians.

It is time for us to cut off all immigration and visas to Muslims. And then start packing the ones up already in here. It is just a matter of time.I don't even know where to begin. :rolleyes:

Might as well kick all Mexicans out since they're the sole proprietors of drugs.
Might as well kick all Asians out because North Korea is pissing us off, but instead of getting rid of just Koreans, we'll throw them all into one ball since they look the same.
Might as well kick all black people out because if at first you don't secede, try, try again.

No one is talking about a Holy War and you're just derailing this thread. Cut it out or make a new one!

[Roamy]

You don't get it gloomy
islam in not a religion it is a doctrine against our way of life. Cut out the cancer NOW
See you want to include all of the races because you can't tell the difference between religion and doctrine of war. You can't see past the word 'racism'
Mexican, asians on and on have come in and share our beliefs of life. they do not come here and secretly conspire to kill us. Maybe Mexico can take all the Muslims. And by the way it is not that easy to immigrate to Mexico. But who can take you serious who believes the border should be open one way only.

[Roamy]

Hopefully this will catch on like wildfire and spread throughout all the states

OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — Oklahoma voters have approved a measure that would forbid judges from considering international law or Islamic law when deciding cases.
Republican Rex Duncan, the sponsor of the measure, called it a "pre-emptive strike" designed to close the door on activist judges "legislating from the bench or using international law or Sharia law."
Members of the Muslim community called the question an attack on Islam and some of them said they are prepared to file a lawsuit challenging the measure.

[glauistean]

Only a person of with a modicum of intelligence would do- what you do.

What I said was addressed to the person who asked the question.
you know Bobby, you almost said something logical but you screwed it up even when you borrowed the very word I used (modicum). Continue posting your nonsense and I will respond. It is clinically entertaining to imagine you as you try to pontificate but are lost in an fog of inanity. Anyway Bobby.
Thanks for the compliment, although I doubt you even knew you were giving one.

[glauistean]

We read, we listen, we don't get. Call us stupid all you want...but you in turn don't listen, don't learn to facts dumped in your lap at times either....

Oshawa! Read what you posted. What kind of tripe is that? If it makes sense to you, give me a call and I will fill a 'script for you. An anti-psychotic would appear to be the logical choice. Were you drinking when you wrote that? Appears as though you may have been. In that case I can't prescribe an anti-psychotic or a sedative. Ask your local shrink for Buspar. Non habit forming and not addictive. You do know the difference? Right? If you choose not to take my advise just keep on posting just like Bobby and the other semi literate amongst you. It is entertaining for me and allows me to observe as well as share with colleagues just what the "Greatest country in the world" is producing. God, I bet you think you're Canadian.

[schmenke]

...islam in not a religion it is a doctrine against our way of life. ....

:eek:

[Bob Riebe]

you know Bobby, you almost said something logical but you screwed it up even when you borrowed the very word I used (modicum). Continue posting your nonsense and I will respond. It is clinically entertaining to imagine you as you try to pontificate but are lost in an fog of inanity. Anyway Bobby.
Thanks for the compliment, although I doubt you even knew you were giving one.

If you are trying to prove that " modicum of intelligence" is giving you too much credit, you may have succeeded.
If you are saying you have less, I will not disagree.

[Eki]

Roamy probably also thinks that international law isn't a law but a doctrine against his way of life.

[BDunnell]

I don't even know where to begin. :rolleyes:

The moderators clamping down on one forum member's blatant racism would be a good start.

[Roamy]

The moderators clamping down on one forum member's blatant racism would be a good start.

:bigcry: :bigcry: :bigcry: :burnout:

[glauistean]

The moderators clamping down on one forum member's blatant racism would be a good start.
Good for you. Time to have these 34's and Roamers banned.

[Roamy]

Good for you. Time to have these 34's and Roamers banned.

yea next you will want to install sharia law. You and dunnell need to go find a forum where everyone is just like you. then you can sit around a stroke each other off with you liberal BS.

[BDunnell]

yea next you will want to install sharia law. You and dunnell need to go find a forum where everyone is just like you. then you can sit around a stroke each other off with you liberal BS.

And you would maybe be better off on a KKK messageboard. Any reasonable person, 'liberal' (not that I accept the definition of the word as put forward by right-wing redneck ignoramuses such as you) or not, would consider you a venal racist.

Apologies for the number of syllables, by the way.

[janvanvurpa]

yea next you will want to install sharia law. You and dunnell need to go find a forum where everyone is just like you. then you can sit around a stroke each other off with you liberal BS.



Why should they go when it is YOU Foustler who endlessly preaches drivel which is offensive to the majority?
You should stay at Freerepublic and Stormfront where you can wallow in they hate filled fantasies that are so central to your diseased world view.

You and your buddies write more insane crap that all other points of the political compass..

GO! You contribute nothing thoughtful or even humorous here.

[glauistean]

yea next you will want to install sharia law. You and dunnell need to go find a forum where everyone is just like you. then you can sit around a stroke each other off with you liberal BS.
Why would I want Sharia law? Seems to me and a few others that your opinion (indoctrination more like) runs contrary to the opinions of most people that actually post here.

Your blatant racist rhetoric and downright bigotry is shameful. So much so that I doubt you even recognize it nor believe it exists.

It's the likes of you and your ilk that are defining the bad image of a great country. I bet you and the National Front (I believe they have a new name) would get along real well.

[donKey jote]

like it or not we're all in this forum together, so...



group hug anyone ? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

[Captain VXR]

Bigots = F***tards

[N. Jones]

US Constitution:

Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."


I don't see a problem with a religious group building something in the US.

[chuck34]

US Constitution:

Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."


I don't see a problem with a religious group building something in the US.

Yep, the US CONGRESS can not do anything pertaining to this building. But the 1st Amendment says nothing about what the State or City of New York can or cannot do.

That being said, I'll make my position clear once again. I do not think that anyone should stop this from being built, except the developers themselves. This is a bad idea for many reasons, that is plain to anyone paying attention. (You don't foster peace, love, and understanding by doing something that is so strongly opposed.)

[BDunnell]

I do not think that anyone should stop this from being built, except the developers themselves. This is a bad idea for many reasons, that is plain to anyone paying attention. (You don't foster peace, love, and understanding by doing something that is so strongly opposed.)

A fair point and well-put, but one might say that society would never progress if baying, vocal opposition is always adhered to. A lot of people, for instance, are against gay marriage. I feel that any reasonable human being ought to support it. A certain level of misguided hostility, even if this represents a majority view, should never be the arbiter.

[Bob Riebe]

A fair point and well-put, but one might say that society would never progress if baying, vocal opposition is always adhered to. A lot of people, for instance, are against gay marriage. I feel that any reasonable human being ought to support it. A certain level of misguided hostility, even if this represents a majority view, should never be the arbiter.

You have your opinion and those with opposite beliefs have theirs, there is no such thing as a -reasonable[ deciding machine; therefore without a base against which to judge a decision, there is no correct or incorrect, only winners and losers.

[glauistean]

You have your opinion and those with opposite beliefs have theirs, there is no such thing as a -reasonable[ deciding machine; therefore without a base against which to judge a decision, there is no correct or incorrect, only winners and losers.

Do you believe what you write? Please, take a look at what you are saying. It is absolutely unintelligible. It makes no sense. It is contradictory in so many ways. And, it is you doing it.

If everything in life was so easily defined as you are purporting with your various posts this world and life would be pointless. There would be progress or no progress. Marriage, no marriage. Borders, no borders, medicine, no medicine. And on and on. You get the point.

A question for you based upon the lines of what you have stated. Only one decision. A winner or a loser.

Two people, each with low levels of serotonin (neurotransmitter), mood altering chemical show up for a clinical experiment. Each receives a pill. Both are told that it is a mood elevator such as sertraline. They are put on a course which is identical for both and told to return in six weeks.

Asked by the treating doctor (psychiatrist) if they felt any change in their mood and attitude as well as outlook in life they both said it was much better than when they were with him (psychiatrist) six weeks before.

Now, the strange situation in this scenario is that one patient got the mood elevator and the other a placebo.

Obviously the medicine worked and the patient taking it would continue on a course. Now,Mr Riebe, the quandary is; what happened in the case of the person taking the placebo? Does he/she need medication to treat the depression? If so, why? The placebo worked.

According to you there is only a winner or a loser. So what is the answer.

No correct or incorrect , yet, there is a winner and a loser.

Correct answer = Winner

Incorrect = Loser.

[Bob Riebe]

Do you believe what you write? Please, take a look at what you are saying. It is absolutely unintelligible. It makes no sense. It is contradictory in so many ways. And, it is you doing it.

Do you understand what the term "base" means?

Don't ask a make-believe question, prove your point.

[glauistean]

Do you understand what the term "base" means?

Don't ask a make-believe question, prove your point.

It is apparent that you sir do not understand what a base is with respect to what you yourself have wwritten. Instead of addressing what I wrote and what others have written you choose to sidestep and change the direction of what is being said.
My point is absolutely proven in what I wrote. The base (starting point) is the lack of serotonin.

Now, answer the question.

[BDunnell]

You have your opinion and those with opposite beliefs have theirs, there is no such thing as a -reasonable[ deciding machine; therefore without a base against which to judge a decision, there is no correct or incorrect, only winners and losers.

Which goes to prove the point that there is rarely, if ever, a black-and-white truth — not that I want this thread to also degenerate (or improve) into a discussion on the composition of colours...

[Bob Riebe]

It is apparent that you sir do not understand what a base is with respect to what you yourself have wwritten. Instead of addressing what I wrote and what others have written you choose to sidestep and change the direction of what is being said.
My point is absolutely proven in what I wrote. The base (starting point) is the lack of serotonin.

Now, answer the question.
There is no question till you at least make an attempt, no matter how lame, to try to prove your point and stop with the vacuous bloviating.

To try to prove a point by using a hypothetical answer, to a hypothetical question is not hypothetically but absolutely asinine

[Bob Riebe]

Which goes to prove the point that there is rarely, if ever, a black-and-white truth — not that I want this thread to also degenerate (or improve) into a discussion on the composition of colours...
No, truth is truth, there is no such thing as a half-truth, only telling half of what is true while omitting the remainder; also called a lie, if done deliberately.

OF course to say that one side is perfect and has never been wrong in any matter is either arrogant or ignorant to the point being moronic, but one must choose what ever standards the one finds moral and acceptable, which means drawing a line in the sand and being willing to stand before God and say "I did what I did I have no excuses to blame."
To try to play both sides against the middle is to take no blame while living by the excuse that it is always someone else's fault, "I compromised but THEY refused."

[glauistean]

There is no question till you at least make an attempt, no matter how lame, to try to prove your point and stop with the vacuous bloviating.

To try to prove a point by using a hypothetical answer, to a hypothetical question is not hypothetically but absolutely asinine

You know your absolute dense and dimwitted replies is really an overt attempt, which I doubt or a genuine lack of understanding what is being stated.
"Bloviating" is something you have a refined into an art form.
Read and learn and maybe someday you too will be informed. Although I doubt it. You are just an angry old man with a chip on his shoulder that likes to go against the status quo no matter what it is if it does not fit into your juvenile worldview.

By the way. The scenario I mentioned is not a hypothethical. It is something that occurs day in day out in this country. It is called a clinical trial.
I also answered your question on base. Look it up.

[Bob Riebe]

You know your absolute dense and dimwitted replies is really an overt attempt, which I doubt or a genuine lack of understanding what is being stated.
"Bloviating" is something you have a refined into an art form.
Read and learn and maybe someday you too will be informed. Although I doubt it. You are just an angry old man with a chip on his shoulder that likes to go against the status quo no matter what it is if it does not fit into your juvenile worldview.

By the way. The scenario I mentioned is not a hypothethical. It is something that occurs day in day out in this country. It is called a clinical trial.
I also answered your question on base. Look it up.

Go bunky-troll on!

Drink chug-a-lug-drink-chug-a-lug... take your happy pills, and sleep well.

[BDunnell]

Go bunky-troll on!

Drink chug-a-lug-drink-chug-a-lug... take your happy pills, and sleep well.

Your posts are, if I may say so, becoming increasingly psychotic.

[glauistean]

Your posts are, if I may say so, becoming increasingly psychotic.

There truly is something sad when one reads the posts of some of these people. They typically come from a group of possibly four people with the identical mindset.