View Full Version : Is Massa next for the chop?
Retro Formula 1
10th May 2010, 14:25
This is purely opinion but I think there is a 1 - 2 driver setup at Ferrari now. Massa has no answer to Alonso, Smedley seems to be talking him more around the track than Massa's driving and Ferrari are launching an investigation as to why he's so slow.
Now, it's not as serious as if Stefano had publicly given him a vote of confidence but it's looking a bit shaky for the likeable Brazilian.
Then add into the mix the harboured resentment by Massa over the Crashgate saga and the rumoured unrest and things look even more delicate.
What are the options for Ferrari and Massa.
1) Massa sorts himself out and gets back on the pace
2) Massa accepts number 2 status and becomes the new Rubins
3) Ferrari can him and get Kubica
Will be interesting to watch this over the season.
markabilly
10th May 2010, 15:05
rumor the kube may already have given ferrari an option to be used before july this year
funny if ferrari had a better pit system at crashgate, massa is wdc
the investigation is a set up for him to fail and justify the kube, probably
Tazio
10th May 2010, 15:33
Massa has had a much worse slump in 2008, pulled out of it and missed the WDC by one corner in Brazil. Having said that if he doesn't start performing soon he's toast.
Then add into the mix the harboured resentment by Massa over the Crashgate saga and the rumoured unrest and things look even more delicate That so has nothing to do with his performance issues, his relationship with Fred, and the well being of the team. :rolleyes:
He's outclassed, and out gunned by a highly motivated superior driver.
I like Massa but I'll support anyone Ferrari trot out there. If I had my druthers I would take Kubinski right now,
and I do believe Ferrari will probably bring in “The Kube” if he (Massa) continues with his current form.
Roamy
10th May 2010, 15:36
One always wonders "Did the accident take the edge off"
keysersoze
10th May 2010, 15:45
One always wonders "Did the accident take the edge off"
He matched Fernando right off the trailer, but in the past three races FA has asserted his dominance. It's not looking too good for the Brazilian at the moment, but I'm not ready to write him off yet. Things can change quickly.
goodf1fun
10th May 2010, 16:22
how idiots are you?2-3 racers only and we have a topic for who will replace him? worst behavior than schumi....
Tazio
10th May 2010, 16:54
how idiots are you?
Scottish ;)
Macbeth:
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
Macbeth Act 5, scene 5, 24–28
It looked like Massa could be actually more competitive in race trim, but like Button was alas held up by Schumacher and we never saw his potential pace.
But overall yeah - his position at Ferrari could be shaky and on current form it's not even impossible that he might share Heidfeld's fate in the driver market after the season.
Mia 01
10th May 2010, 19:23
It looked like Massa could be actually more competitive in race trim, but like Button was alas held up by Schumacher and we never saw his potential pace.
But overall yeah - his position at Ferrari could be shaky and on current form it's not even impossible that he might share Heidfeld's fate in the driver market after the season.
Yes, you are right. When considering which team he drive for, the probability is huge.
Yes, you are right. When considering which team he drive for, the probability is huge.
True, Ferrari do have a habit of dumping under-performers.
Sonic
10th May 2010, 21:04
I've always found the Massa/Smedley relationship a bit odd - but it seems to work for them, so who cares what I think.
The car seems twitchy and nervous, exactly what Massa dislikes, so perhaps with the mods due the car could come more to massa style. Here's hoping, he's one of the good guys. :)
race_director
10th May 2010, 21:10
Massa will not be chopped mid season for sure. he has been ferrari's blue boy after MSC for a long time . I always think Massa will retire with ferrari at end of his f1 career 10-15-20 yrs from now
Sonic
10th May 2010, 21:13
Massa will not be chopped mid season for sure. he has been ferrari's blue boy after MSC for a long time . I always think Massa will retire with ferrari at end of his f1 career 10-15-20 yrs from now
errrm. Massa will be nearly 50 will he not?
Mia 01
10th May 2010, 21:17
True, Ferrari do have a habit of dumping under-performers.
Ha, ha, ha. A cheap one.
Lets see. Kimi managed one WDC and one WCC at his first year.
For now, what I see is only a little bit of Jensons "luck".
race_director
10th May 2010, 21:27
errrm. Massa will be nearly 50 will he not?
quite possible looking at rubens and MSC. Rubens might still end up being in f1 for more 10 years and Massa like rubens is a brazilian.
Brazil is a big market for f1 and ferrari
Mia 01
10th May 2010, 21:33
quite possible looking at rubens and MSC. Rubens might still end up being in f1 for more 10 years and Massa like rubens is a brazilian.
Brazil is a big market for f1 and ferrari
You got it there. But things could be spoiled, think of Santander, if they offer a big bag with money they could sack poor Massa.
Sonic
10th May 2010, 22:02
quite possible looking at rubens and MSC. Rubens might still end up being in f1 for more 10 years and Massa like rubens is a brazilian.
Brazil is a big market for f1 and ferrari
50 and 40 is a big difference. I can't see Schu still being around in a decade, and I don't think anyone is suggesting Massa is the equal of MS.
quite possible looking at rubens and MSC. Rubens might still end up being in f1 for more 10 years and Massa like rubens is a brazilian.
If Rubens Barrichello stays in F1 for 10 more years until the age of 48 I will seriously eat my hat... and maybe something more.
It looked like Massa could be actually more competitive in race trim, but like Button was alas held up by Schumacher and we never saw his potential pace.
Not to mention a broken front wing. But these are just details in the eyes of the bashers.
I've always found the Massa/Smedley relationship a bit odd - but it seems to work for them, so who cares what I think.
The car seems twitchy and nervous, exactly what Massa dislikes, so perhaps with the mods due the car could come more to massa style. Here's hoping, he's one of the good guys. :)
The car is lacking downforce and coupled with the harder tire they used for the last 4 races this means a general lack of grip.
Alonso can cope better with this situation however they both, and certainly the team, will benefit from added downforce if they are to have the slightest chance to winning any championship this season.
race_director
10th May 2010, 22:49
we talk about Kubica. what has he done till now? expect for the 2008 canadian GP. which offcourse was due to the famous pit lane accident .
Rodster
11th May 2010, 00:36
I like Felipe, he's one of the good down to earth drivers on the grid. He reminds me of Alex Wurz, another good guy. Felipe is a damn good driver but I think he's mentally been hurt by watching Alonso take over the team. The infamous pass by Alonso into the pitlane shows who's #1 in that team. He's also lost confidence in some of his remarks re: his performance with the car.
The difference between Alonso and Felipe is star power and with two world titles it falls in Alonso's favor.
Martin Brundle summed it up best at the Spanish GP when Legard asked Martin about the pecking order of the teams. He said #1 is Red Bull because of their pace. #2 goes to Mclaren for their updates and charge towards the front and #3 goes to Ferrari because of Alonso. I don't think the Ferrari is really all that good and has taken a step back the last few races. But Alonso put the car 4th on the grid for qualifying and benefited from Vettel's pit stop and Hamilton's tyre blowout.
Regardless Alonso has extracted more from the car than Felipe at this point. Alonso love him or hate him is Schumi like in that he can extract the most from a turd car. I remember Schu win a few races when he first joined Ferrari and that car was basically a sled.
Ferrari could keep massa under contract and place him with a team using their engine
ST205GT4
11th May 2010, 02:05
I've seen someone mention that Ferrari are sniffing around Webber but I can't find anything to substantiate the rumour. Anyone seen anything on the intraweb anywhere?
Ranger
11th May 2010, 02:16
^ http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/05/massa-out-of-sorts-in-critical-season/
Kubica is certainly one option, but I wonder whether Webber might be another. This quote along with a few other things I heard privately in the last few weeks make me wonder whether Ferrari is tracking Webber as a possible candidate for Alonso’s team mate. It’s not an obvious fit, in marketing terms Australia isn’t much use for Ferrari or FIAT, but Alonso and Webber go back a long way to their Renault days and there is a lot of respect there.
But that's just an opinion, nothing solid.
Garry Walker
11th May 2010, 06:59
It has been dissapointing. I am wondering whether Massa might not be the same since his accident. His driving is not looking like it did the last couple of years.
Rodster
11th May 2010, 07:06
It has been dissapointing. I am wondering whether Massa might not be the same since his accident. His driving is not looking like it did the last couple of years.
It's possible but he was strong in Bahrain. I think it's more to do with possibly a lack of confidence since it's becoming obvious Alonso has become Schumi at Ferrari and because they are enamored with Fred that the improvements to the car could possibly be based on his suggestions, much like Schu at Mercedes. Just my 0.0002 cents
Retro Formula 1
11th May 2010, 11:14
Not to mention a broken front wing. But these are just details in the eyes of the bashers.
Well, as I'm a basher, I had better point out that he actually showed better pace after the front wing was dented causing Rob Smedley to joke that perhaps they had found the answer to Massa's pace problem.
Retro Formula 1
11th May 2010, 11:17
That so has nothing to do with his performance issues, his relationship with Fred, and the well being of the team. :rolleyes:
He's outclassed, and out gunned by a highly motivated superior driver.
I like Massa but I'll support anyone Ferrari trot out there. If I had my druthers I would take Kubinski right now,
and I do believe Ferrari will probably bring in “The Kube” if he (Massa) continues with his current form.
Totally agree that his suspicions are not related to his performance but in my post I tried to summarise all factors including the relationship within the team.
I think that any personal issues between the two strengthen the argument for replacing Massa as Alonso is the numero uno.
Jake Stephens
11th May 2010, 11:27
I have never been a massive fan of Massa, I remember his first season with Sauber in 2002. But I feel the guy needs to be given a chance this season, its early days yet.
Mia 01
11th May 2010, 13:37
I´m no fan of Felipe, but I think he is among the best drivers.
Theres no real proof that Mark or Robert are better than him.
Pure Bull.
I am evil Homer
11th May 2010, 14:05
Aside from he had a championship winning car and both times failed to win the title, twice. Something Mark has only really got this year (maybe) and that Kubica has never had so we can't really compare them as like-for-like.
I really liek Felipe and I think he's a good driver but IMO missed that last 5% that makes a good driver a great one. FWIW I also think the same of Button but he took the opportunity of a great car with both hands.
Tazio
11th May 2010, 14:22
Totally agree that his suspicions are not related to his performance but in my post I tried to summarise all factors including the relationship within the team.
I think that any personal issues between the two strengthen the argument for replacing Massa as Alonso is the numero uno. You are certainly entitled to your opinnion. IMO any "harbored resentment" only exists in the world of tabloid fantasy.
Firstgear
11th May 2010, 15:13
Massa can be a quick driver, but he is mentally fragile (and I'm not talking about his skull).
When he first came to drive for Ferrari, MS took him under his wing and he had no chance of doing anything other than playing a supporting roll with MS as the established team leader. He did well in this environment.
When Kimi came along, Kimi did his own thing, and didn't care what Massa was up to. Massa still had MS to hang onto, and did well here as well.
With Alonso as a 'teammate' things are different. Alonso will (and by the looks of it, already has) make sure he is the 'alpha male' and won't allow anyone to challenge him - or try to be his equal. Massa will shrivel in this type of environment.
Massa needs to realize that to survive, he must step in line and play a supporting roll. He'll do well in that roll - but step out of line - and Alonso will devour him.
Please note: All of this is proven fact, and not just my opinion. ;)
Retro Formula 1
11th May 2010, 15:29
You are certainly entitled to your opinnion. IMO any "harbored resentment" only exists in the world of tabloid fantasy.
It may be that Massa has got over his suspicions about the crash but he did seem resentful when interviewed. I know that he later retracted it, possibly with some encouragement from Ferrari, but the fact is he believed Alonso was complicit and cost him.
It may also be that he wasn't at all peeved when Alonso did his number on the way into the pits.
It may also be hogwash that there is no truth in the rumours of discontent at Ferrari, Massa is not at all fazed about being outperformed by Alonso and is happy playing 2nd fiddle.
Now, obviously the media love to blow things out of all proportions but there does seem to be smoke, if not the fire.
But as you say, it's only opinion but this looks likely to continue rumbling on.
fandango
11th May 2010, 17:53
The car obviously doesn't suit Massa, or something about the car, anyway. Ferrari are trying to fix this. That's all I see at the moment.
I remember when Schumacher broke his leg. During the months he was out there was talk of F1 and Ferrari not really needing him, because they had Irvine and Salo. Seems funny now. Ferrari have stuck by Massa, and I don't see any change there. All the crashgate stuff and the rumours over the China incident are just noise.
One doubt I have is whether Massa has lost race form since his accident, lost his fight. He hasn't lost speed, but maybe he's lost some nerve in the race. He recently became a father, so his wife was pregnant when he had the accident. That's a lot of emotion.
But he's very strong, and he has always learned from teammates and improved.
Well, as I'm a basher, I had better point out that he actually showed better pace after the front wing was dented causing Rob Smedley to joke that perhaps they had found the answer to Massa's pace problem.
Sorry but if you believe that a F1 car is actually faster with a broken front wing then you better go comment on a football forum instead of wasting your and our time in here.
Did it ever cross your mind that as the cars get lighter they become faster during the race?
Retro Formula 1
11th May 2010, 20:35
Rob did comment to Felipe that his lap times had picked up after his incident with his front wing. I heard this on the BBC coverage so skc didn't imagine that. I don't believe this helped with his pace, and was more a joke between the two. :)
Thank you my friend. It was of course just a whimsical statement.
ioan is rather perturbed with me for some reason and seems hell bent on attacking me at every opportunity. I think it's because I questioned Schumacher which seems to be illegal in his book and justifies stoning as a minimum :)
goodf1fun
11th May 2010, 20:57
Scottish ;)
Macbeth:
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
Macbeth Act 5, scene 5, 24–28
paint it
Rob did comment to Felipe that his lap times had picked up after his incident with his front wing. I heard this on the BBC coverage so skc didn't imagine that. I don't believe this helped with his pace, and was more a joke between the two. :)
So if it was a joke than skc should understand it like a joke not like if it was for real, but I believe this is asking way too much from him.
Thank you my friend. It was of course just a whimsical statement.
Use a smiley next time cause your statements look dead serious to say teh least.
ioan is rather perturbed with me for some reason...
I rather not post the reason, you might be offended.
DexDexter
11th May 2010, 22:03
True, Ferrari do have a habit of dumping under-performers.
And world champions, such as Alain Prost or Kimi Räikkönen... By the way, IMO Ferrari would be winning more races than they currently are if they had invested their money in car development instead of paying 17 million euros for a guy to go rallying for fun.
Tazio
12th May 2010, 00:58
paint it
No problem Bro. Knarly cover
V-ai0OyCh5c
nigelred5
12th May 2010, 02:49
Sorry but if you believe that a F1 car is actually faster with a broken front wing then you better go comment on a football forum instead of wasting your and our time in here.
Did it ever cross your mind that as the cars get lighter they become faster during the race?
There are all numbers of conceivable reasons why Filipe could have actually been faster with the broken wing. It certainly cold change the balance of the car more to his liking.
Tazio
12th May 2010, 13:55
paint itNo problem bro.
Knarly cover don't you think?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-ai0OyCh5c
Mia 01
12th May 2010, 19:52
What about Massa beating Alonso this wekeend, he has a fair chance.
i_max2k2
12th May 2010, 20:31
I think ever since getting a full time racing seat in Ferrari, Massa has developed into a wonderful driver, twice he came close, and not because of his mistakes he lost the title. This though seems to be happening a lot in the past few years, massa misses out on quite some races in the beginning of the year and later picks up and becomes a serious contender. He seems like a good person, and all he perhaps needs is a motivation talk. I think its too early in the season to be talking about him going out of Ferrari. We should just let him come out of the situation, i.e. dealing with a teammate like Alonso, I don't think Schumi was like Alonso when Massa was his teammate in 2006, they rather looked pretty happy with each other, this is not the case right now. He is probably being put down because of the lack of pace, perhaps with a car more to his liking he would put the foot down, and show what he is really made of.
fandango
12th May 2010, 21:27
What about Massa beating Alonso this wekeend, he has a fair chance.
Indeed he does. He shouldn't be underestimated. Again.
For all it is worth Felipe has got as many points as, shock, horror, Lewis Hamilton, so is Lewis next for the chop?! :p
Mia 01
13th May 2010, 00:41
For all it is worth Felipe has got as many points as, shock, horror, Lewis Hamilton, so is Lewis next for the chop?! :p
So observant, yes he is.
Tazio
13th May 2010, 04:05
.
I don't think Schumi was like Alonso when Massa was his teammate in 2006, they rather looked pretty happy with each other, this is not the case right now.What a load of crap! I agree that Massa has had a history of slow starts and finding winning pace latter in the season, and I'm quite fond of the lad.
But his biggest turnarounds were when Kimi was the other pilot.
I'm quite sure Kimi treated him all warm and fuzzy. Yea' Mike was around for some coaching after he retired.
His perceived problems have nothing to do with negative treatment from Fred.
Fred saved his ass in the Oz GP as I stated on another thread, and never said a word about the fact that he was much faster than Felipe at that point in the race and if he past him he probably would have gotten Kubinski as well. That’s 6 points. Instead he stayed back and fought off Hamilton who would have also passed Massa if Fred had. Fred never said a word about this. He simply played team ball
Your contention sounds to me like he's having problems because he doesn't have Mike around to change his diaper.
Well he doesn't.
And if he's outscored this season by Fred it will be because Fred was faster.
i_max2k2
13th May 2010, 07:58
What a load of crap! I agree that Massa has had a history of slow starts and finding winning pace latter in the season, and I'm quite fond of the lad.
But his biggest turnarounds were when Kimi was the other pilot.
I'm quite sure Kimi treated him all warm and fuzzy. Yea' Mike was around for some coaching after he retired.
His perceived problems have nothing to do with negative treatment from Fred.
Fred saved his ass in the Oz GP as I stated on another thread, and never said a word about the fact that he was much faster than Felipe at that point in the race and if he past him he probably would have gotten Kubinski as well. That’s 6 points. Instead he stayed back and fought off Hamilton who would have also passed Massa if Fred had. Fred never said a word about this. He simply played team ball
Your contention sounds to me like he's having problems because he doesn't have Mike around to change his diaper.
Well he doesn't.
And if he's outscored this season by Fred it will be because Fred was faster.
So your saying his relation with Fred is better than what he had with Schumi? I believe in 2006, one of the reasons Schumi himself stated was he retired, so that Massa could have a drive. And in Oz, if Fred was SO MUCH faster, why din't he just overtake him, oh should he have ranted why din't the team give any orders? It was not that he stayed back, becoz he and massa are good friends, it was because he just couldn't overtake him, and when he had the chance he did it near, the pit straights of Malaysia, so keep your crap with you :p .
What a load of crap!
Why? He was 100% right in his assessment!
Tazio
13th May 2010, 11:27
So your saying his relation with Fred is better than what he had with Schumi? I believe in 2006, one of the reasons Schumi himself stated was he retired, so that Massa could have a drive. And in Oz, if Fred was SO MUCH faster, why din't he just overtake him, oh should he have ranted why din't the team give any orders? It was not that he stayed back, becoz he and massa are good friends, it was because he just couldn't overtake him, and when he had the chance he did it near, the pit straights of Malaysia, so keep your crap with you :p . If you actually watched the race you would have seen Fred was much faster than Massa at that point in the race.
I think The tires (they both ended up putting 53 laps on soft's after starting on inter wets) were toast,
but Fred managed to close on Massa very fast.
So your saying his relation with Fred is better than what he had with Schumi?
No I'm not saying his relaionship with Fred is better than with Mike.
It simply doesn't matter. Your dreaming if you think Fred stayed behind Massa because he could not pass him is laughable. After having won the first race The team decided to suggest they hold station.
Tazio
13th May 2010, 11:33
Why? He was 100% right in his assessment!
Ioan would you please remove the glasses!
Ioan would you please remove the glasses!
Sorry no can do, I have none.
i_max2k2
13th May 2010, 20:13
If you actually watched the race you would have seen Fred was much faster than Massa at that point in the race.
I think The tires (they both ended up putting 53 laps on soft's after starting on inter wets) were toast,
but Fred managed to close on Massa very fast.
No I'm not saying his relaionship with Fred is better than with Mike.
It simply doesn't matter. Your dreaming if you think Fred stayed behind Massa because he could not pass him is laughable. After having won the first race The team decided to suggest they hold station.
You look more like contradicting your self, Its not laughable that a driver is not able to pass someone else, its because of the aero stuff, and bad grip behind the car and all. So it was the team and not their friendship? , well the point was it was not Fred who decided to be an angel, and let massa go, the decision to not overtake massa was taken in regards to the conditions, and not because he wanted to gift the 6 points that you mentioned earlier, and if Fred agreed to that, there was no reason for him to rant about it after the race.
Mark Flounders
13th May 2010, 20:27
I would like to say he is not going anywhere but ferrari are ruthless so who knows
Rodster
14th May 2010, 00:48
I would like to say he is not going anywhere but ferrari are ruthless so who knows
Agreed but Ferrari is like any other marque name that's synonymous with history and winning. You could also add Manchester United and the NY Yankees to that list as well or add any other sports team. There is a certain level of expectation, and winning that goes with those names. If as a player you don't produce they get rid of you. they have little tolerance for lack of production.
Personally I hope Massa sorts his slump in form because I like him as a driver and person. But Fred is where Ferrari is building their team around not Felipe he's just supporting Alonso.
Tazio
14th May 2010, 01:27
You look more like contradicting your self, Its not laughable that a driver is not able to pass someone else, its because of the aero stuff, and bad grip behind the car and all. So it was the team and not their friendship? , well the point was it was not Fred who decided to be an angel, and let massa go, the decision to not overtake massa was taken in regards to the conditions, and not because he wanted to gift the 6 points that you mentioned earlier, and if Fred agreed to that, there was no reason for him to rant about it after the race.Actually what I was implying is after taking a 1, 2 in Bahrain the team decided it was in their best interest
to have Fred tail gun for Massa because if they let them race Fred would have passed FM in a New York Minute, followed by "The Boss" who would have punked Massa just as quickly, thus diminishing WCC points. It's speculative whether Alonso would have overtaken "the kube" so the team decided to consolidate what they had, rather than hand them over to a major opponent. However since you and I were watching different races I suggest we move on and agree to disagree.
airshifter
14th May 2010, 03:33
Actually what I was implying is after taking a 1, 2 in Bahrain the team decided it was in their best interest
to have Fred tail gun for Massa because if they let them race Fred would have passed FM in a New York Minute, followed by "The Boss" who would have punked Massa just as quickly, thus diminishing WCC points. It's speculative whether Alonso would have overtaken "the kube" so the team decided to consolidate what they had, rather than hand them over to a major opponent. However since you and I were watching different races I suggest we move on and agree to disagree.
Surely you have a link to a quote or video from Ferrari suggesting they hold station? Otherwise what you claim is speculation, what others state is the history of the race results.
Tazio
14th May 2010, 04:21
Nope, no link just an observation. And if you read my post it started with:
“Actually I was implying"
So feel free to take it for whatever you think its worth. Do you have an opinion on this matter?
Through personal observation I have a conviction. The matter is obviously subjective.
Take it or leave it, simple as that. Or feel free to amuse yourself refuting it.
Tazio
14th May 2010, 04:48
Felipe Massa has admitted that his poor performance when compared to new Ferrari team-mate Fernando Alonso is down to not feeling entirely at home in the Scuderia's F10, despite having been on the pace in pre-season testing.
The Brazilian has yet to better the second place he took in the season-opener in Bahrain - completing a Ferrari 1-2 behind Alonso - and has seen his results tail off since also appearing on the podium in Australia. Having headed the championship standings heading to round four in China, Massa currently sits in a share of sixth place with the unlucky Lewis Hamilton, some 21 points adrift of overall leader Jenson Button. Alonso, meanwhile, moved back into second spot after taking a similar result on home soil last weekend.
"During the winter tests, I was 110 per cent happy with the car and then we went to the first race and the car was great, everything was working perfectly as I wanted," the 2008 championship runner-up reflected, "Then, when we changed the tyres, I was always struggling a little bit more to get used to the car,
http://www.crash.net/f1/news/159660/1/massa_admits_there_are_issues.html?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss
A little admission right from the horses mouth. Although not specifically stated about his lack of pace compared to Fred in the latter stages in Oz, I wont claim it to be a definative support to my stated observation. It does IMVHFO reinforce what I personally observed during that race.
airshifter
14th May 2010, 06:21
Nope, no link just an observation. And if you read my post it started with:
“Actually I was implying"
So feel free to take it for whatever you think its worth. Do you have an opinion on this matter?
Through personal observation I have a conviction. The matter is obviously subjective.
Take it or leave it, simple as that. Or feel free to amuse yourself refuting it.
I don't think Alonso would have tail gunned for his mother when the WDC is up for grabs. I personally though he got close to Massa fairly quick, but then either lost some of his pace or Massa got the message and got back on pace.
Tazio
14th May 2010, 07:07
The evidence is mounting!
http://www.grandprix.com/race/r822racereport.html
It could have been even better for Kubica, who was the only car other than Vettel to be ahead of Button during the pit stop phase. But the Pole was still warming up his tyres as the Englishman forced his way past. From then on there was no matching the McLaren but he looked after his tyres well and kept the field at bay, resisting the attentions of Lewis Hamilton's McLaren before holding off the two Ferraris, who spent the second half of the race directly behind him.
Third and fourth for Massa and Alonso was ultimately better than Ferrari could have expected due to Hamilton and Rosberg's extra pit stops. Massa admitted he'd been having trouble with the tyres and he held up his team-mate for much of the race as a result. Still he held on for his second podium of 2010.
http://www.anf1blog.com/2010/03/australian-grand-prix-analysis/
Australian Grand Prix: Analysis
Ferrari
Felipe Massa, P3
Fernando Alonso, P4
Ferrari can feel pleased with their performance today, especially considering Fernando Alonso battled back from 18th after a spin on the first lap to finish 4th, and Massa got onto the bottom step of the podium from starting 6th on the grid. Alonso said the car was ‘perfect’ and the fastest on the grid today
i_max2k2
14th May 2010, 07:21
Well its still speculation at best, I don't think Alonso would not have ranted out against Massa, it was just that he couldn't pass him. As has happened with several drivers, who come through the field only to find a car slightly off pace of theirs, and they can't overtake it. With your theory this would also hold true what happened between Lewis and Sutil in Malaysia? In Oz it was purely what you can do in the field is what you get, and Alonso couldn't pass Massa that was it!
Tazio
14th May 2010, 07:35
In reality you may be well be right. We were just in Koz's chat watching Hamilton reeling in Fred at about 2 seconds a lap on fresh rubber I even said Fred is toast because he already had about 40 laps on his stones. It was pretty much a consensus of the guys in the chat that Fred's defense was Hurculean . But I do remember two radio transmissions from McLaren
The first one went something like this as "The Boss" Started his charge at the Reds
Engineer:
"Ferrari's are 16 seconds in front of you"
Lewis:
They have to stop again
Engineer:
They don't have to stop again
and then when Lh caught Fred there was another transmission from Hamilton
"My tyres have gone off"
So in review I think I overstated my case a little :)
Amen :p
Saint Devote
14th May 2010, 11:12
Nothing can be ruled out.
And to this day, if it appears in the Italian press then there is credence to it. Ferrari have always leaked information this way as well as considering the influence of the Italian press on Ferrari. And di Montezemolo is part of the Scuderia "old school".
This is the same way that the Raikkonen exit and move to rallying with Red Bull at this time last year appeared.
To Ferrari in Autosport this week - the name of Mark Webber. He reminds me a lot of the late Clay Regazzoni. And why not? Alonso is not a driver that wants someone like Kubica in the team. He wants someone that WILL play number two and Ferrari a driver that will be prepared to do that and is extremely capable too.
If Alonso wins the title this year - El Nano will get what El Nano wants.
Rodster
14th May 2010, 12:41
If Alonso wins the title this year - El Nano will get what El Nano wants.
I agree with that, just like McLaren told Lewis when he asked for a McLaren they responded with "win three Championships and we'll gift you a McLaren supercar".
I am evil Homer
14th May 2010, 12:50
No that was Ron Dennis' promise to Lewis if he won three titles.
http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/Webber linked to Ferrari in-place of Massa (http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/../../../../news/159698/1/webber_linked_to_ferrari_in-place_of_massa.html)
http://www.crash.net/f1/comments/159698/1/a/webber_linked_to_ferrari_in-place_of_massa.html
Rodster
14th May 2010, 12:58
No that was Ron Dennis' promise to Lewis if he won three titles.
As long as RD and Whitmarsh have anything to do with McLaren the offer is still good, i'm sure.
Saint Devote
15th May 2010, 01:19
I'd say that Massa at the most has another year in the team. If Webber is not signed for 2011 then it is likely in 2012 that Jules Bianchi, if he has performed will be ready for a move from GP2 into the Ferrari f1 race seat.
And if he begins to find good traction this year, he could even be in the race seat alongside Alonso in 2011.
ShiftingGears
15th May 2010, 01:30
Whilst Webber in a Ferrari would be interesting, I have no idea why Massa is rumoured to be on the way out.
Saint Devote
15th May 2010, 01:56
Whilst Webber in a Ferrari would be interesting, I have no idea why Massa is rumoured to be on the way out.
The team still view Massa as they did when he was a test driver.
There are those in the team that do not want Massa and they hold political sway.
The only reason he is driving for Ferrari this year is because of his accident.
Alonso is gaining the upper hand.
Alonso does not want Massa in the team.
I say there are enough reasons for Massa to move on or be "moved on".
Tazio
15th May 2010, 11:14
Alonso does not want Massa in the team.
Link Please!
Tazio
15th May 2010, 12:08
Nothing can be ruled out.
And to this day, if it appears in the Italian press then there is credence to it. Ferrari have always leaked information this way as well as considering the influence of the Italian press on Ferrari. And di Montezemolo is part of the Scuderia "old school".
This is the same way that the Raikkonen exit and move to rallying with Red Bull at this time last year appeared.
To Ferrari in Autosport this week - the name of Mark Webber. He reminds me a lot of the late Clay Regazzoni. And why not? Alonso is not a driver that wants someone like Kubica in the team. He wants someone that WILL play number two and Ferrari a driver that will be prepared to do that and is extremely capable too.
If Alonso wins the title this year - El Nano will get what El Nano wants. If Fred wins the WDC this season, he will have done it by breaking out a serious can of "Whip-Ass"
Spare me the conspiracy theories and driver comparisons Not specifically@you SD.
I'm thoroughly bored with the Anglo-Mafia's insesent mud slinging.
If Bun's or "The Boss" Dominated both FP's there would be more jizz on the floor in this Chatroom
than in all the adult peep shows in the freakin' tenderloin district of "The City"
steveaki13
15th May 2010, 12:10
Felipe was certainly scaring the team in third practice today.
Twice that I saw he was all but in the barriers.
Once at Lowes Hairpin he slid and only just had enough space and steering lock to get around, then later hit the big kerb in 2nd part of the swimming pool and lost the back end and again scratched the barrier with his tyres, but it was Alonso who actually lost it today.
Rodster
15th May 2010, 12:45
Felipe was certainly scaring the team in third practice today.
Twice that I saw he was all but in the barriers.
Once at Lowes Hairpin he slid and only just had enough space and steering lock to get around, then later hit the big kerb in 2nd part of the swimming pool and lost the back end and again scratched the barrier with his tyres, but it was Alonso who actually lost it today.
He was LOL. I'll still think Kubica will probably land the seat, just a hunch. Even though Alonso and Kubica are best mates, Kubica is a very fast, aggressive driver. Not sure if Fred wants to deal with that.
Retro Formula 1
15th May 2010, 13:10
Well, he's got every opportunity to shine this weekend without any pressure from his team mate.
I hope he grasps it with both fists.
Well, he's got every opportunity to shine this weekend without any pressure from his team mate.
I hope he grasps it with both fists.
I hope he rather uses his hands. :p
I'm surprised about the Webber -> Ferrari rumours. Are they really serious and why have they risen? Yes, I can see that Webber has been a bit more comfortable and quicker in his car than Massa so far this season, but generally the point of such change is a bit questionable, keeping in mind that Webber is also 5 years older.
Roamy
15th May 2010, 21:51
I think ferrari's moves will depend on what they think of Alonso. Actually Massa is probably the best teammate. He is capable of winning but not quite as fast as Alonso. Why upset the apple cart
Retro Formula 1
17th May 2010, 18:13
I think ferrari's moves will depend on what they think of Alonso. Actually Massa is probably the best teammate. He is capable of winning but not quite as fast as Alonso. Why upset the apple cart
I agree. I can't see why they would want to change things unless there is a rift developing that threatens to upset the team.
There's a lot of talk about Massa moving but it isn't logical from what I know.
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