Monaco GP Thread

[christophulus]

A little early, but might as well combine next week's race with this bit of news:


The FIA is to be asked to consider introducing a one-off split qualifying session for next weekend's Monaco Grand Prix because of fears about traffic problems at the street event.

HRT's Bruno Senna, whose car will be one of the slowest in the field, has revealed that he plans to speak to FIA race director Charlie Whiting in Friday's drivers' briefing in Spain to put forward the idea of splitting the field up.


That would entail removing the frontrunners - who are all but guaranteed getting through Q1 – from the session entirely to minimise the possibility of a big name getting caught out or an accident taking place


http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/83341

Probably a sensible one-off decision, we'll see what comes of it this weekend.

[V12]

Bit undecided on this. A big part of me thinks it's unnecessary - if one of the big names gets unstuck then tough, people are always complaining that the grids aren't shaken up enough so this might be a way for it to happen without any silly artificial measures.

Now the part in the article that says "That would entail removing the frontrunners - who are all but guaranteed getting through Q1 – from the session entirely", it's a bit unfair maybe, but seeding qualifying has been done before in F1 at Monaco, in the late 50s, early 60s I believe, and NASCAR has their Top 35 rule too. I wouldn't have a HUGE problem with it providing it was done in a fair and transparent way, i.e. the top x drivers in the standings going into the Monaco race, rather than some arbitrary selection of the "big names" to give a free pass out of Q1.

I also appreciate this is an unprecedented situation of having this many cars with a performance gap in the current qualifying format (we've had more cars and slower cars in the past, but that was when it was an hour free for all on both Friday and Saturday)

But still, they are all grown men (even if only just in a few cases), and I say let them deal with it :)

[ArrowsFA1]

:down:

Drivers have coped with traffic before at Monaco, and there's no reason to change things in the way Bruno Senna is suggesting IMHO.

Taking the idea further, if anything overtaking will be far more difficult in the race, so why not remove those slower teams from the weekend entirely. That would make things easier wouldn't it :rolleyes:

:down:

Drivers have coped with traffic before at Monaco, and there's no reason to change things in the way Bruno Senna is suggesting IMHO.

Taking the idea further, if anything overtaking will be far more difficult in the race, so why not remove those slower teams from the weekend entirely. That would make things easier wouldn't it :rolleyes:

Totally agree. Which is a rare thing, admittedly.

Slower cars have always been part of the challenge of qualifying....or were when it was a recognised part of the skill set of a driver to find the space needed.

[i_max2k2]

The cars are significantly slower than they have been for many years, and we've already seen the slow teams causing problems in qualifying. Monaco is not the best track to be doing a flying lap on, and then discover a Lotus, or Virgin coasting along trying to get out of the others way. Looks like we more or less agree here guys, whats going on? :p :)

I agree some of the cars are way off pace, this one off could be better, however maybe they could allow longer q3 and q2's instead of giving them a pass, only allowing say not more than 5 cars in at a time or something, and so not taking away opportunity from anyone.

[ArrowsFA1]

Slower cars have always been part of the challenge of qualifying....or were when it was a recognised part of the skill set of a driver to find the space needed.
Exactly :up:

Which sort of brings me onto the point about the blue flags. There was a time that they were a warning, 'a faster car is behind you', not an instruction.

[F1boat]

I would like to see a one lap qualy a la 2003 for Monte Carlo, but then again I loved the one lap qualifying sessions.

[UltimateDanGTR]

I don't know what all the fuss is about.

30 cars used to take part in quali proper in the 80s and early 90s, and the time differences in between 1st and 30th wasnt too different to what I would expect 1st and 24th to be in 2010. plus remember car safety has improved since then. so I ask, what's the problem with that?

[Robinho]

just give them 5 mins extra in the 1st session so they can get a lap in easier in the traffic

[V12]

:down:

Drivers have coped with traffic before at Monaco, and there's no reason to change things in the way Bruno Senna is suggesting IMHO.

Taking the idea further, if anything overtaking will be far more difficult in the race, so why not remove those slower teams from the weekend entirely. That would make things easier wouldn't it :rolleyes:

Oh I do agree and I do find it a bit hypocritical that people within F1 (even more so than the fans) are whingeing that they need to "spice up the show" (god I HATE that phrase!) and considering WWF/T20-style crap to do so, yet are scared of a potential natural way to achieve this at Monaco, but IF they do go through with this I hope it's done in a straightforward way using the current points standings or something, rather than, say (for example using the current standings after China, even though they'll be different going into Monaco), giving Schumacher (currently 10th in points) a bye but not doing so for Sutil (currently 9th ahead of Schuey on best results countback), on account of MS being a "bigger name", as the article suggests.

[Rollo]

In the days of a single hour qualifying session, there'd be a strategies employed so that drivers didn't face traffic. Surely making sure that your driver isn't impeded by traffic is all part of a race team's normal planning?

This idea is a complete nonsense. If someone's lap is upset because their team didn't plan for it, then that's their fault. If I go out in my Formula Ford for a qualifying session and I encounter traffic then that's tough bikkies.

Or are Formula One drivers a bunch of cotton wooled softies?

[truefan72]

The cars are significantly slower than they have been for many years, and we've already seen the slow teams causing problems in qualifying. Monaco is not the best track to be doing a flying lap on, and then discover a Lotus, or Virgin coasting along trying to get out of the others way. Looks like we more or less agree here guys, whats going on? :p :)

At first I was clearly in the Arrows camp and though the idea was ridiculous as backmarkers are always part of the sport. But the more I got to think about it the more I think senna's idea strangely makes sense.

but here are my issue
1. 6 cars running by themselves have an opportunity to stay out of trouble and avoid traffic qualms the other 18 cars would experience.
2. If something were to happen in the main qualy that made it impossible to improve ones time, then it would be an unfair advantage to the 6
3. the weather is a great equalizer as we have already seen. If it rains then there really is no telling who makes it to Q2 be it a lotus or a mclaren
4. If there was one track where a relatively slower car can sort of shine or make up time it would be at monaco. The issue would be less about speed and more aobut handling and bravado. I think the virgin might actually do well at monaco. I also think that kovy and trulli might push their cars well at the track as well.

so in the end I am against it, but won't go nuts if it does happen. I can see their thinking , but the time difference between 1st and 24th should not be as dramatic as in other races

[truefan72]

I agree some of the cars are way off pace, this one off could be better, however maybe they could allow longer q3 and q2's instead of giving them a pass, only allowing say not more than 5 cars in at a time or something, and so not taking away opportunity from anyone.

:up: all sensible ideas and probably better than a split session.

I actually like the idea of running longer q1 session. They would just cut back a few minutes between the sessions to make up the time for the tv broadcast window.

funny how I'm posting about monaco even before spain.

[truefan72]

Exactly :up:

Which sort of brings me onto the point about the blue flags. There was a time that they were a warning, 'a faster car is behind you', not an instruction.

that I would agree with. I think they are used to easy at tracks. It should only come out if it looks like the car is impeding the faster car not as a sign to get out of the way. And then of course, they have been wrong sometimes. its 2010 teams have radios to tell their driver to move over

[truefan72]

I would like to see a one lap qualy a la 2003 for Monte Carlo, but then again I loved the one lap qualifying sessions.

ugh, I despised them :(
to me it brought little to the entertainment of qualy and made sure that there would be an unbalanced sessions with varying conditions throughout the session

but to each his own. ;)

[Mia 01]

No need to split Q1. MacLaren and Ferrari are probably sitting it out any way.

[F1boat]

they need to "spice up the show" (god I HATE that phrase!)

So do I, bro. So do I...

[Dave B]

@CroftyF1 Just a bit of confirmation about qualifying in Monaco. According to my source Charlie Whiting has told the teams there will be no change

[christophulus]

Simple enough then: the three new teams go out straight away, do a lap and park it, then the big boys come out. Not ideal but I can see it happening.

[V12]

It's not like Q1 is all that critical anyway, you only need to put it in the top 17, in other words be the second slowest of the established teams cars all things being normal, if you're not capable of that, even in tight circumstances, then tough. And Q2 onwards the slowest cars won't be there!

[ArrowsFA1]

@CroftyF1 Just a bit of confirmation about qualifying in Monaco. According to my source Charlie Whiting has told the teams there will be no change
:up:

[jens]

This reminds me the talks about a two-tier championship last year. Now if this split qualifying would have happened, that would have been a real two-tier competition! If a car of a top team crashes, breaks down or opts for a completely wrong strategy (like we saw in the qualifying for the Malaysian GP!), a backmarker car deserves to beat them. We can't eliminate that possibility.

[Mia 01]

I been there, no need to change anything.

[steveaki13]

Its Monaco and part of its challenge and history is dealing with the backmarkers.

Also I thought F1 was a sport where everyone gets an equal shot (Well I know thats not always the case) but if a Lotus or Virgin driver has a good day in a mixed Qualifying he may be able to get upto 15th or 16th ahead of a more established runner even more so if it rains.

So for me all cars should go out and set as many laps as they want.

Like others have said its only 6 seconds different. We have had plenty of cars lapping Monaco slower than that over the years.
I am hoping the slower cars may be able to close the time gap around the streets and spring a suprise or two.

The teams and drivers just need to get on with it. IMO

[steveaki13]

I imagine the new teams all have been looking at Monaco as their best oppotunity this season to get a point.

How many races in Monaco finish with less than 11 finishers? Answer a fair few especially if it rains.

So if they can lap reliably and we have a similar race to 95, 96, 97, 99, 00, 01 or 04. They have a realistic chance for a point.

Although from what I saw of the handling of the Hispania in the Spain weekend it wont be long before Senna and Chandhok are in the wall. :p :

[Saint Devote]

My favorite grand prix and track is the Italian Grand Prix at Monza. I LOVE!!! that place - it was where my alltime favorite driver, Jody Scheckter won the grand prix and the world title, driving a Ferrari [that is racing driver heaven, hein?], but my other track is Monte Carlo :-]

Never mind downforce - an essential requirement at Monte Carlo in order to maintain stability - it will be the drivers that are usually best able to keep off the walls that will WIN.

Hamilton and Vettel tend to bang the walls. Jenson, Alonso andone of the Monte Carlo greats, Schumacher, do not.

It will be apt for Schumi to make this his first podium finish. I will be disappointed if Jenson does not finish AT LEAST on the podium. I expect him to win.

Webber is an outlier for this grand prix. Where does one place him expecially after Catalunya. Like Massa we will only know when we discover WHICH Mark has arrived at Monte Carlo.

[SGWilko]

Thank goodness common sense has prevailed. Monaco IS special, and the whole ethos of the place is its uniqueness and tightness.

If you are not man enough to race around Monaco without assistance and make the space or get past the slower cars, then you should bugger off and go fishing......

[Tazio]

Monaco is a special track. One that will play more toward teams with superior mechanical grip,
and less to cars with superior down force. No one will be using their "Blown Rear Wing/F-duct"
It's all about qualifying, and being able to not lose time in the really slow parts, yet being able to take Sainte Devote, and Casino "balls out" 70 times in the race.
This could be a good track for Kubinski, to pull off a real shocker :eek: .
(although if "The Boss" can take advantage of his late braking style without binning it in quali he may be in for an easy Sunday cruise)
Actually I think any pilot of the top five teams has a fighting chance for glory this Sunday.
I'll even throw in Sutil, and Alguersuari.
Damn I love F1 on back to back weekends :up:

[Valve Bounce]

Totally agree. Which is a rare thing, admittedly.

Slower cars have always been part of the challenge of qualifying....or were when it was a recognised part of the skill set of a driver to find the space needed.

Quite right - as long as somebody doesn't stop and block the track near the end of quals. :p :

[Mia 01]

A perfect lap at Monaco needs a driver who can be on 101 percent, and not a tiny bit over that.

Therefore Jenson or Seb.

[F1boat]

A perfect lap at Monaco needs a driver who can be on 101 percent, and not a tiny bit over that.

Therefore Jenson or Seb.

I hope that Michael will stun all, but realistically it will be again a RBR 1-2.

[Ari]

I hope that Michael will stun all, but realistically it will be again a RBR 1-2.

I don't know about a RBR 1-2. I think the McLaren will be suited well to Monaco actually.

I think from RBR Webber will be better suited to Monaco than Vettel. All that said, Schumacher is someone you just can't write off this weekend.

Unfortunately by the end of the first lap most of the work for the race will have been done. All the excitement will be before the race, not during it.

[Saint Devote]

Hamilton has crashed at Monaco once and so has Alonso. Even the great Schumacher has crashed there. Come to think of it hasn't Jenson had a crash there where he was nearly very badly injured? Button also crashed out of the 2002 race, and the following year did not start due to a crash the previous day. All apart from Vettel are Monaco winners I must remind you.. ;)

So no Vettel and Hamilton don't tend to bang the walls, just like Jenson is not prone to forgetting to brake coming out of the tunnel.

In 2008, Lewis banged the wall and had to pit for a new wheel - it was only because of the safety car that the difference was neutralized and he was able to continue and win. And then there was the 2009 Q1 nonsense.

Vettel does tend to crash at vital moments similar to Hamilton - Monte Carlo 2009.

In 2002 at Saint Devote, Jense was overtaking Panis who did not see him, kept to the normal line and collided with Button.

2003 he touched the barrier exiting the tunnel and had a very big accident.

My point is TENDENCY. Jenson has participated at Monte Carlo many more times than either Vettel or Hamilton so his ratio of scenery meetings is much lower.

Hamilton's is pretty high as is Vettel's.

[Saint Devote]

A perfect lap at Monaco needs a driver who can be on 101 percent, and not a tiny bit over that.

Therefore Jenson or Seb.

I suggest you include Schumi there - never underestimate Schumacher at Monte Carlo :D

[Tazio]

Here ya''awl boys go writing Ferrari off again!
Running max wing at Monaco may help their down force issues,
and help heat the tires for the quali runs!

[Ari]

I suggest you include Schumi there - never underestimate Schumacher at Monte Carlo :D

....and is why I've already given some of my Webber winnings on Betfair to a Schumacher win at 20/1!

[Garry Walker]

Hamilton and Vettel tend to bang the walls. Jenson, Alonso andone of the Monte Carlo greats, Schumacher, do not.


Button doesnt bang wall? So I guess it was a dream that button put it in the wall at monaco in 2003, quite funny huh

[F1boat]

I don't know about a RBR 1-2. I think the McLaren will be suited well to Monaco actually.

I think from RBR Webber will be better suited to Monaco than Vettel. All that said, Schumacher is someone you just can't write off this weekend.

Unfortunately by the end of the first lap most of the work for the race will have been done. All the excitement will be before the race, not during it.

I disagree. We may see safety cars and bizarre crashes, which will "spice up the show" lol.

[steveaki13]

Again today more moaning about the slower cars around Monaco.

This annoys me, as we have seen it all before and no real damage is done. Its racing.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8675502.stm

[Allyc85]

Somebody needs to sit these F1 guys infront of a Le Mans race and see how a LMP1 car deals with a GT car, the closing speeds are stupidly fast at times :D

[Mia 01]

Again today more moaning about the slower cars around Monaco.

This annoys me, as we have seen it all before and no real damage is done. Its racing.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8675502.stm

For sure there´s moaning.

http://www.planetf1.com/news/3213/6145971/Hamilton-Monaco-traffic-would-be-a-disaster

[harvick#1]

I hope it rains it Qualies to piss off all these guys more :laugh:

as Ally said, watch a ALMS or LMS race and see what the LMPs have to deal with against the GT1/2 cars

[Mia 01]

One moore, it lokks like heavy rain on Saturday.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/weather/forecast/5003

[Mia 01]

And another one. How many will hit the barriers on Saturday and then on Sunday and why.

[Sleeper]

To be honest, any one but Massa from McLaren, Ferrari and RBR could win this one, maybe even one of the Mercedes if they have good mechanical grip. The fight for pole should be frantic.

[ioan]

I hope it rains it Qualies to piss off all these guys more :laugh:

as Ally said, watch a ALMS or LMS race and see what the LMPs have to deal with against the GT1/2 cars

At least LMS cars have bodywork to protect them against the slower cars, this isn't the case in F1.

[Robinho]

2 things - The LMS cars don't race round Monaco, where there aren't many places you'd get 2 cars abreast.

secondly, the issue fo the qually moaning can't just be dismissed as "they've done it before" as before they didn't have all the cars on track for 15 minutes only trying to set a lap time, they had much more time.

i do disagree with much of the btching, they should just get on with it, there is still very little chance of getting beaten by the slow guys and dropping out, but i don' think the concerns should be dismissed as easily as they have been

[harvick#1]

At least LMS cars have bodywork to protect them against the slower cars, this isn't the case in F1.

I'll tend to disagree with the prototypes, they are F1 cars with fenders, and some with roofs. the cars are extremely nimble and can fly around any track

[Saint Devote]

This will be Jenson's 9th Monaco and Lewis's 4th, so its a weak comparison IMO. Lewis touched the barrier in 2008 but its hardly a crash and afterall he has finished every Monaco race in his F1 career to date, unlike Jenson. They've also both had a win and a second place finish so there's nothing between them in terms of points scored (Old points accepted). Come to think of it, considering Lewis has only participated in 3 Monaco's so far, a first and a second place is not bad. I think Jenson needs to brush up on his skills and even more so considering he lives there.. lol ;)

Quantitatively there is nothing incorrect about the measure. It gauges results on an equal basis as opposed to the misleading quote of relative numbers, which is simplistic and inaccurate.

That Lewis is clearly not the next Senna is merely a fact and nothing more.

[Saint Devote]

I'll tend to disagree with the prototypes, they are F1 cars with fenders, and some with roofs. the cars are extremely nimble and can fly around any track

That is an erroneous statement. They are LMS cars and do not have much in common with the F1 cars.

Are NASCAR [vomit!] cars merely fast taxi cabs then? I think not.

[Saint Devote]

To be honest, any one but Massa from McLaren, Ferrari and RBR could win this one, maybe even one of the Mercedes if they have good mechanical grip. The fight for pole should be frantic.

Thats ever true!
Remember what happened to Patrese years ago, and Panis for that matter.

Monte Carlo is one of those tracks where if you finish you can do well - but the track does have this tendency to bite those not paying enough attention - just ask Hamilton and Vettel.

[Saint Devote]

I hope it rains it Qualies to piss off all these guys more :laugh:

as Ally said, watch a ALMS or LMS race and see what the LMPs have to deal with against the GT1/2 cars

F1 drivers have ALWAYS complained about the "rabbits" [circa 1977] in the field. Its an F1 tradition.

At a track like Monte Carlo the complaining provides an early basis for excuses, but can also help those who are good in traffic.

Ergo - it isthe usual background noise of gamesmanship being heard.

The FIA is correct to ignore the complaints and tell everyone to get on with it.

[airshifter]

Monte Carlo is one of those tracks where if you finish you can do well - but the track does have this tendency to bite those not paying enough attention - just ask Jenson why he didn't run qually in 2003.

Fixed.

[airshifter]

Somebody needs to sit these F1 guys infront of a Le Mans race and see how a LMP1 car deals with a GT car, the closing speeds are stupidly fast at times :D

True enough, but you are dealing with apples and oranges in the case of LeMans type races. You have cars with vastly different rates of acceleration, braking, and cornering. This gives you virtually the entire track to pass on in many cases. When those driving limits are more equalled out, then the driver alone, most often the one being passed, has almost unlimited ability to screw up the driver behind.

[Sonic]

The LMP/F1 comparrison doesn't really work, however the drivers are still being a bit silly. Even if all 24 cars hit the track for a hot lap at the same time (unlikely) there is 3.3km of space out there - plenty of room for everyone to have a gap. If they are really worried just fill the cars for ten laps (such is the advantage over the newbies that that they would still come out on top) so that they can always have track position in q1.

[race_director]

The LMP/F1 comparrison doesn't really work, however the drivers are still being a bit silly. Even if all 24 cars hit the track for a hot lap at the same time (unlikely) there is 3.3km of space out there - plenty of room for everyone to have a gap. If they are really worried just fill the cars for ten laps (such is the advantage over the newbies that that they would still come out on top) so that they can always have track position in q1.

i agree and i think most the top teams will do that. drive flat out for 20 mins.

[Mysterious Rock]

There is no way the gao will be that high in Monaco, its more about driver than car, I think there will be some surprise's this fine weekend, which I hope has some rain, then we may see a Virgin do the business, I would find it funny if the suggestion of the first 5 mins of q1 the teams allow the newbies out then the rain comes, knocking some big players to the back, that would be justice for the moaners

[SGWilko]

Thats ever true!
Remember what happened to Patrese years ago, and Panis for that matter.

Monte Carlo is one of those tracks where if you finish you can do well - but the track does have this tendency to bite those not paying enough attention - just ask Hamilton and Vettel.

or Senna, Prost, Schumacher............

[AndyL]

One moore, it lokks like heavy rain on Saturday.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/weather/forecast/5003

Oh boy, better not make any appointments for right after the race, it could go the 2 hours. If the forecast stays wet it could be time to put some money on an outsider, remember Olivier Panis?

[Saint Devote]

or Senna, Prost, Schumacher............

Ahh, the very special people of Monte Carlo :s mokin:

Producing A drive as any of them would have - such as Jense last year for pole and the race.

The special ones are the drivers that can do it consistently, hence my hope that Jense does [I know he can] produce another one this weekend :D

[Saint Devote]

The weather at Monte Carlo is funny because of the Mountains - the weather tends to swirl around and double back on itself. When it rains, it sticks around and become a bit like Spa - wet/dry/wet/dry = sort of like Australia and China this year huh?!!!!

:-]

in years to come maybe people like you will wish to compare future drivers and say, "is this guy the next Lewis Hamilton"?


But they'll probably only ask that if the future driver in question is underage and found in Ron Dennis's office with his pants round his ankles.


you are watching the sport for very different reasons to myself. ;)

Which he is perfectly entitled to do. Not everybody has to think like you, thank god.

[Koz]

in years to come maybe people like you will wish to compare future drivers and say, "is this guy the next Lewis Hamilton"?

But they'll probably only ask that if the future driver in question is underage and found in Ron Dennis's office with his pants round his ankles.


You just made my day.

[Tazio]

I think the latter and in years to come maybe people like you will wish to compare future drivers and say, "is this guy the next Lewis Hamilton"?
If he can manage to mature to the point of not being a "total head case" :)

[SGWilko]

But they'll probably only ask that if the future driver in question is underage and found in Ron Dennis's office with his pants round his ankles.


Who, the driver or Ron?????

[ioan]

Who, the driver or Ron?????

Does it matter?

[gloomyDAY]

But they'll probably only ask that if the future driver in question is underage and found in Ron Dennis's office with his pants round his ankles..Can you please stop being a fag.

[Mia 01]

Chasing Seb and Mark at the streets in Monaco will be a great challenge to many drivers.

Of thoose many, a lot will bin it into the barriers.

[Mia 01]

Even Seb and Mark maybe?
The Red Bulls qualified 4th and 8th last season and they were the closest to Brawn at that point in the year. Monaco is one of those races where anything can happen and it doesn't necessarily reflect the pace of the field in its truest light. I have a feeling the Mclarens and Ferrari's will be dictating who sits at the front of the grid.. :)

Nothing suggest that at the moment I´m afraid.

[i_max2k2]

I do believe Monaco is a drivers circuit, but a driver can do so much, such has been the pace of red bulls that they just can't be discounted even on such a circuit. However if it rains , and there is a mix up in the obvious order, we might have a good race on our hands.

[Mia 01]

I really wish you would elaborate rather than leaving these shallow one liners. Are you aware that the setup at Monaco is like no other race on the calendar, and the down force advantage Red Bull have will make little difference on a street circuit? Do you think the longer wheelbase of the Red Bull might also be a disadvantage, or are you making your prediction off the back of the high speed Spanish GP?

Sorry, I forget luck. Hope the Ferarri and MacLaren teams could get their hands on some, they will need it.

The RBR is superiour.

[steveaki13]

From the amount of drivers struggling to keep control of their cars in Practice so far this year. (I.e we have seen a lot of twitchy errors), I think we may see quite a few Red Flags this weekend.

My guess is 4 red flags in the three practice sessions.

[Saint Devote]

I'm sure Jenson will be eager to put himself up there with the greats of Monaco like Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Hamilton, and Alonso by winning Monaco in the wet. :s mokin:

You misread my statement.
Its not about a wet race - Jenson appears to have the lock on those this year - it is about consistency: winning multiple Monaco GP's with at least two in a row.

I realize you are being a wag by including Hamilton with that lot :D
Alonso is not quite there yet.

I forgot to include Graham Hill with Senna, Prost and Schumi.

[gloomyDAY]

I'm just wondering if Vettel can actually make it to the end of the race. I'm not sure what the problem is with the wheel nuts, but the suppliers need to re-examine why there have been so many failures. This just doesn't single out RBR, Hamilton's wheel had a malfunction at Barcelona too.

At least RBR have the pace to do well at Monaco.

[Big Ben]

It turns out Schumi doesn't agree with you boys. He wants to split q1. I guess he just wants to compete against hrt, lotus and such so he could be on top of the table for once.

[555-04Q2]

The Hispania looks alot more stable around Monaco than I was expecting, judging by the onboards from Senna.

Thats because it doesnt go fast enough to be un-stable :p :

[Dave B]

Looks like traffic could be a problem. Who knew? :p

[ioan]

Thats because it doesnt go fast enough to be un-stable :p :

Exactly!

[Mia 01]

So far it looks good for Seb and Mark. Better than usual in FP1.

[Tazio]

FP1

Times
01. Alonso Ferrari 1:15.927 31 laps
02. Vettel Red Bull-Renault 1:16.000 + 0.073 26 laps
03. Kubica Renault 1:16.016 + 0.089 28 laps
04. Webber Red Bull-Renault 1:16.382 + 0.455 24 laps
05. Massa Ferrari 1:16.517 + 0.590 29 laps
06. Schumacher Mercedes 1:16.589 + 0.662 21 laps
07. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1:16.647 + 0.720 32 laps
08. Button McLaren-Mercedes 1:16.692 + 0.765 29 laps
09. Sutil Force India-Mercedes 1:16.805 + 0.878 23 laps
10. Buemi Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:16.857 + 0.930 30 laps
11. Rosberg Mercedes 1:17.149 + 1.222 14 laps
12. Barrichello Williams-Cosworth 1:17.331 + 1.404 28 laps
13. Liuzzi Force India-Mercedes 1:17.704 + 1.777 26 laps
14. Petrov Renault 1:17.718 + 1.791 38 laps
15. Alguersuari Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:17.991 + 2.064 36 laps
16. Hulkenberg Williams-Cosworth 1:18.397 + 2.470 39 laps
17. de la Rosa Sauber-Ferrari 1:18.434 + 2.507 37 laps
18. Kobayashi Sauber-Ferrari 1:18.547 + 2.620 32 laps
19. Glock Virgin-Cosworth 1:19.527 + 3.600 23 laps
20. Kovalainen Lotus-Cosworth 1:19.606 + 3.679 31 laps
21. Trulli Lotus-Cosworth 1:19.902 + 3.975 30 laps
22. di Grassi Virgin-Cosworth 1:20.566 + 4.639 18 laps
23. Senna HRT-Cosworth 1:21.688 + 5.761 27 laps
24. Chandhok HRT-Cosworth 1:21.853 + 5.926 6 laps

[Sonic]

Monaco is going to be a big test this year - big fat heavy cars do not make for the nimblest of beasts, and with the times so close we could be in for a very eventful GP.

[ioan]

Mercedes are back to the old suspension layout because the new one is not suited for Monaco's Lowe hairpin.

[AndyL]

Damon Hill is the guest steward this weekend. Can't wait to see what happens if Schumacher is involved in something that gets referred to the stewards ;)

[Sonic]

Damon Hill is the guest steward this weekend. Can't wait to see what happens if Schumacher is involved in something that gets referred to the stewards ;)

Well he's guilty obviously! ;)

Henners: Whilst I'm proud of my scot roots I do consider myself British and after the chat on independance on the chit chat forum I changed my flag to reflect that.

[I am evil Homer]

The GP2 practise threw up a startling comparison..

GP2-Pastor Maldonado Rapax 1m20.476s

F1- Lucas di Grassi Virgin-Cosworth 1m20.566

:p : :eek:

Well the GP2 car has been developed for a few years, the Virgin is barely 6 months old but still it shows how far they and HRT are off the pace.

[SGWilko]

I do find the fact you have sat and thought about that a touch on the creepy side. Quite a famous performer from my home town had thoughts like that and got in a shed load of trouble.. :s tareup: :s hock:

Wouldn't want to be in his gang......

[maxmach]

No way they should split qualifying, there has and always will be traffi, esp at Monaco, seperates the boys from the , what do you call them.....oh yeagh...****ers.
Do agree on adding 10 minites or so to the qualifying session.

[Bagwan]

Did these guys all just realize they were going to race in Monaco ?

The first whining about this seemed to pop up after the last race , just a few days ago .



It will be difficult , but isn't that what Monaco is all about ?
Isn't that a part of why we revere those who take the laurels here ?

Grow a pair , boys .
Get on with it .

Here is a decision where I am fully on board with the FIA .

Even if they manage to add more cars for next year , I hope they stick to thier guns .
It will make winning this race all the more difficult , and consequently , more worthy of all those champagne smiles .

[i_max2k2]

Here is a decision where I am fully on board with the FIA .



It was not the FIA which took this decision, I mean they agreed to whatever was being said through the teams, it was some team bosses against all the drivers who wanted a split Q1.

Quite a famous performer from my home town had thoughts like that and got in a shed load of trouble.. :s tareup: :s hock:

But enough about your childhood.....

[Sonic]

How good was Robert Kubica today? Throwing that Renault around like a Formula Ford, with finger tip power slides and pin point accuracy. Brilliant! This is what we need from F1, more power than grip so we can marvel at the show these guys can put on when they are in the zone.

[Bagwan]

It was not the FIA which took this decision, I mean they agreed to whatever was being said through the teams, it was some team bosses against all the drivers who wanted a split Q1.

FOTA does not make or enforce the rulebook .
If they had concensus , they could ask for this .

In the end , the FIA is responsible , not Tony Fernandes , or FOTA , for the rules as they stand .

Thank you , FIA .

[ioan]

It was not the FIA which took this decision, I mean they agreed to whatever was being said through the teams, it was some team bosses against all the drivers who wanted a split Q1.

Exactly. For once the FIA did something at least half sensible and allowed those involved to take the decision, but then how on earth are so many people (drivers and team principals) going to agree on anything?

[i_max2k2]

Exactly. For once the FIA did something at least half sensible and allowed those involved to take the decision, but then how on earth are so many people (drivers and team principals) going to agree on anything?

Yep lol, but in such situations I'd think a unanimous decision by the drivers should have prevailed, as seemed the case, till the bosses came in. But it will be fun, lets see who's lap gets disturbed, and what looks like less than 2/10th's separating the top 4 teams.

[call_me_andrew]

They are LMS cars and do not have much in common with the F1 cars.

Yeah, when you factor in road relevence, the LMS technology is light-years ahead of F1.

[call_me_andrew]

The GP2 practise threw up a startling comparison..

GP2-Pastor Maldonado Rapax 1m20.476s

F1- Lucas di Grassi Virgin-Cosworth 1m20.566

:p : :eek:

Did Maldonado cut a corner?

[Roamy]

How good was Robert Kubica today? Throwing that Renault around like a Formula Ford, with finger tip power slides and pin point accuracy. Brilliant! This is what we need from F1, more power than grip so we can marvel at the show these guys can put on when they are in the zone.

NO NO NO you have to be smooth like michael and Jensen.

Seems everybody's champion is having trouble rotating the car into the corner. Oh not to worry we will get him some TC

[Saint Devote]

According to Autosport - Webber being mentioned as a replacement for Massa at Ferrari in 2011.

I do not believe the stories of Kubica going to Ferrari unless Renault really mess up.

[Saint Devote]

Yeah, when you factor in road relevence, the LMS technology is light-years ahead of F1.

I have little interest in the techmology side of f1 so I take you at your word. At the same time, F1 does not need to have any relevance because it is motor racing and exists for its own sake.

[Saint Devote]

Damon Hill is the guest steward this weekend. Can't wait to see what happens if Schumacher is involved in something that gets referred to the stewards ;)

Damon is someone of integrity and dignity and, his reaction at the time all that happened shows just how strong a character he is.

If any incident occurred with Schumacher he would be fair.

[Saint Devote]

Well he's guilty obviously! ;)

Henners: Whilst I'm proud of my scot roots I do consider myself British and after the chat on independance on the chit chat forum I changed my flag to reflect that.

A sassenach in our midst! Rabbie Burns is spinning in his grave.

Coulthard, McNish and di Resta are on their way to you!!

I think the Scottish flag was ideal - the people of Clark and Stewart after all.

[Sonic]

A sassenach in our midst! Rabbie Burns is spinning in his grave.

Coulthard, McNish and di Resta are on their way to you!!

I think the Scottish flag was ideal - the people of Clark and Stewart after all.

Didn't realise my flag was up for debate here st.d :rolleyes:

[Saint Devote]

All those drivers you have mentioned are proud Scots and are happy to be associated with the sport as a British driver. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a citizen here who does not have a mix of Welsh, Scottish, and English Blood. Look at Hamilton for instance with his very Scottish name. The vast majority of people in this country don't have a problem with a United Kingdom, and neither should you considering you have said more often than I can remember that you hate nationalism. ;)

Anyway thats another subject entirely, back to Monaco.. :)

Its not about nationalism - it is about identification and its informative. Everyone comes from somewhere.

[Saint Devote]

Didn't realise my flag was up for debate here st.d :rolleyes:

You began the discussion. It is of no consequence to this thread what flag or the reasons you show it.

[BobbyC]

The IRL uses a split-qualifying session in their knockout rounds. The top six in both Q1a and Q1b advance to Q2, where the top six advance to Q3.

[SGWilko]

But enough about your childhood.....

WTF does that mean Tamb?

[Sonic]

St.D:

I answered a fellow forumers question so I started nothing sir.

You waded in and started chucking around derogatory comments.

If that's what floats you boat, so be it, but I'm going back to talk about Monaco.

Peace and love.

[fandango]

Alighter side in the press conference.. :)

http://willthef1journo.wordpress.com/2010/05/13/lewis-no-go-for-afro-regrow/

Funny stuff. I must say, while I'm more in the Alonso camp than the Hamilton one, it's great to read that both of these great racers are in top form.

It would be interesting to see a kind of re-run of Monaco 07, Hamilton closing on Alonso, without any possibility of team orders obviously. My impression is that both of them have moved on from when they were team-mates and that they're enjoying the racing now. Things as they should be....

WTF does that mean Tamb?

I always thought your buddy had a sparkle about him.

Never realised until yesterday that actually it was just some glitter in him.

[Saint Devote]

St.D:

I answered a fellow forumers question so I started nothing sir.

You waded in and started chucking around derogatory comments.

If that's what floats you boat, so be it, but I'm going back to talk about Monaco.

Peace and love.

Derogatory comments? Which were they? Certainly I had no intention in that regard.
At the same time I did not realize that this is so sensitive an issue with you.

Lastly - anything that is written on this public board is fair game for discussion. Otherwise do not mention it. That is my approach.

[Mia 01]

Back on topic please.

Qualifacation today.

Lets see what the RBR has in the bag. Brawn will also be right up there.

Is it raining at he moment?

[ShiftingGears]

How bad is the damage on Alonso's car?

How bad is the damage on Alonso's car?

Bad. Three wheels off.

[ShiftingGears]

Bad. Three wheels off.

Wow. That'd be a nightmare to stitch back together for qualifying.

[donKey jote]

So long as it´s just the wheels, they should be ok :s

[ShiftingGears]

Kubica fastest and 1.4 faster than Petrov! One to watch.

[pino]

01. Kubica Renault 1:14.806 25 laps
02. Massa Ferrari 1:14.852 + 0.046 22 laps
03. Webber Red Bull-Renault 1:14.945 + 0.139 24 laps
04. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1:15.038 + 0.232 24 laps
05. Vettel Red Bull-Renault 1:15.046 + 0.240 25 laps
06. Schumacher Mercedes 1:15.236 + 0.430 21 laps
07. Rosberg Mercedes 1:15.252 + 0.446 20 laps
08. Buemi Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:15.537 + 0.731 21 laps
09. Sutil Force India-Mercedes 1:15.659 + 0.853 13 laps
10. Button McLaren-Mercedes 1:15.682 + 0.876 22 laps
11. Liuzzi Force India-Mercedes 1:15.691 + 0.885 19 laps
12. Alguersuari Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:15.769 + 0.963 26 laps
13. Hulkenberg Williams-Cosworth 1:16.164 + 1.358 24 laps
14. Barrichello Williams-Cosworth 1:16.232 + 1.426 21 laps
15. Petrov Renault 1:16.240 + 1.434 26 laps
16. Alonso Ferrari 1:16.266 + 1.460 6 laps
17. Kobayashi Sauber-Ferrari 1:16.644 + 1.838 25 laps
18. de la Rosa Sauber-Ferrari 1:16.696 + 1.890 22 laps
19. Kovalainen Lotus-Cosworth 1:17.782 + 2.976 18 laps
20. Trulli Lotus-Cosworth 1:17.865 + 3.059 26 laps
21. di Grassi Virgin-Cosworth 1:18.063 + 3.257 24 laps
22. Senna HRT-Cosworth 1:19.720 + 4.914 25 laps
23. Chandhok HRT-Cosworth 1:19.781 + 4.975 21 laps
24. Glock Virgin-Cosworth 3 laps


source : skysport.com

[steveaki13]

I think Kovalainen did well under 3 seconds behind.
It now appears the Hispania's are detached at the back as the other teams have moved forward a bit, to only 3-3.5 seconds off the pace, while Hispania are 4.5-6.

[donKey jote]

bugger... reports from Spain that Alonso won´t be fixed in time :s

[ioan]

I think Kovalainen did well under 3 seconds behind.
It now appears the Hispania's are detached at the back as the other teams have moved forward a bit, to only 3-3.5 seconds off the pace, while Hispania are 4.5-6.

It's mostly down to driver and mechanical grip in Monaco and it is not representative for the rest of the season.

[ioan]

bugger... reports from Spain that Alonso won´t be fixed in time :s

No amount of time could fix him anyway. :p

[Retro Formula 1]

Blimey, the poor Marshall's are waving so many Blue flags, they could end up with RSI.

[ShiftingGears]

Blimey, the poor Marshall's are waving so many Blue flags, they could end up with RSI.

I was just thinking how fortunate the drivers are not to have an equivalent of Rene Arnoux in the field. Probably the most critisised backmarker in F1.

[ShiftingGears]

Webber - Kubica front row! Excellent!

[Valve Bounce]

Woohoo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[UltimateDanGTR]

I'd love KUbica to get the jump on Webber tommorrow-that would turn out to be a great race if such a thing happened!

[Valve Bounce]

I think you'd be hard pressed to find a citizen here who does not have a mix of Welsh, Scottish, and English Blood. :)

Well, I don't! :( although I do admit that, at one stage, I did have a British Passport. But I don't think that would count as part of any mix, does it? :confused:

[Valve Bounce]

I'd love KUbica to get the jump on Webber tommorrow-that would turn out to be a great race if such a thing happened!

And I'd love Vettel to get the jump on Robert - I need all the help I can get for my pickems. ;)

[UltimateDanGTR]

And I'd love Vettel to get the jump on Robert - I need all the help I can get for my pickems. ;)

that'd be rather irritating-a red bull dominance display would be rather likely then. and to be honest, I don't care about your pickems! :p

[Valve Bounce]

Nobody does. :( :bigcry:

[gloomyDAY]

And I'd love Vettel to get the jump on Robert - I need all the help I can get for my pickems. ;) I was thinking the same thing, aside from the fact that I'm a RBR fan, about my pickems. I have Mark and Seb for a 1-2 finish at Monaco, but they are both in good position.

I just hope Vettel gets the jump on Kube and both Bulls ride off into the distance.

[edv]

I really wish someone would've qualified in Q3 on the harder compound tires.

[ioan]

I really wish someone would've qualified in Q3 on the harder compound tires.

Liuzzi should have tried it, his chances to start any better than 10th were only depending on Button and Rubens making a mistake.

BTW how come Jensy is so slow?

[SGWilko]

I always thought your buddy had a sparkle about him.

Never realised until yesterday that actually it was just some glitter in him.

I believe that is the question Mr Gadd asks - have you got any glitter in you........

[gloomyDAY]

BTW how come Jensy is so slow?That's because there was something wrong with the timing device when Jenson put in his flying lap. In actuality Jenson was ahead of the field by 3 seconds due to his smooth driving.

[markabilly]

bugger... reports from Spain that Alonso won´t be fixed in time :s
all those mechanics need, is this and in seconds, it is done:

http://www.jefferslivestock.com/ssc/assets/product_images/NewberryCastKnife.jpg


a mere $18 and it can be used over and over....

and for those who faint at the sight of blood....

there is the crusher model for about $40.
http://www.enasco.com/prod/images/products/8A/VC117007l.jpg

[markabilly]

So will button get revenge va a penalty on Massa for blocking?

[Valve Bounce]

No!

[F1boat]

Liuzzi should have tried it, his chances to start any better than 10th were only depending on Button and Rubens making a mistake.

BTW how come Jensy is so slow?

Blocked, like Mike.
On the other hand I have to say that I am delighted for Mark and Robert, what a performance from both of them. I hope that they will have a great race tomorrow!!!

[Robinho]

Liuzzi should have tried it, his chances to start any better than 10th were only depending on Button and Rubens making a mistake.

BTW how come Jensy is so slow?

2 tenths off Hamilton and 8 tenths off Webber (who was 3 tenths clear of the field) isn't that bad, although he clearly didn't have the best session, i don't think he ever quite got to grips with the car today, seemed a bit tentative. not his best day, but at least he's starting in the top 8 and in the last few races the McLaren has raced beter than it has qualified.

[donKey jote]

all those mechanics need, is this and in seconds, it is done:

http://www.jefferslivestock.com/ssc/assets/product_images/NewberryCastKnife.jpg


a mere $18 and it can be used over and over....

and for those who faint at the sight of blood....

there is the crusher model for about $40.
http://www.enasco.com/prod/images/products/8A/VC117007l.jpg

hehe you´re actually funny for once :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[jens]

Huh, I'm actually disappointed about one thing - that Trulli's feat of beating all of his team-mates so far in Monaco qualifying came to an end... By the way, exactly the same happened to Schumacher, so today was a historic day. But Lotus was this time less than a second behind the closest team in front. Quite a positive progress, even if the circuit is shorter than any other.

Anyway, it's a bit unusual to see McLaren struggling at Monaco, while they have usually been quite special there. Could be explained with wheelbase, which they have extended significantly for this year. On the other hand Renault and Mercedes have one of the shortest cars, so their pace on this particular circuit can be deemed as logical.

[Shifter]

If Alonso doesn't have a car to race (I think he will, but it's possible), and there's a heck of a smashup in Ste. Devote with red flag, and half the field is out for lack of a backup car...then hopefully this stupid chassis-build rule will be put to rest by the FIA.

I'm not hoping for the smashup let me be clear, but if it happens I for one will really miss the driver scramble and the nearly-full grid on the restart.

[Roamy]

I was thinking the same thing, aside from the fact that I'm a RBR fan, about my pickems. I have Mark and Seb for a 1-2 finish at Monaco, but they are both in good position.

I just hope Vettel gets the jump on Kube and both Bulls ride off into the distance.

dream on - Kube's engine guy is the king of launch !!!

[ioan]

dream on - Kube's engine guy is the king of launch !!!

Yeah we saw that last week too. Or maybe this engine guy was on holiday back then?

[Roamy]

Yeah we saw that last week too. Or maybe this engine guy was on holiday back then?


Well unlike your boy MS = Tad cannot operate Kube's foot

[ShiftingGears]

BTW how come Jensy is so slow?

He wasn't too bad. Only two tenths behind Hamilton, which is a lot smaller than other teammate gaps in quali.

[steveaki13]

Great effort from Robert Kubica, he has just looked plain fast all weekend. Lets hope he produces a historic display.
I am hoping for a bit of a crazy Monaco GP today however I think that is unlikley.

[airshifter]

Interesting qually, and very telling that Kubica was able to loft that Renault up between the two Red Bulls. Nothing against Mark or Seb but I'd love to see Robert win the race.... I've said for years now I think he is the real deal and worthy of a better car.

Good to see Massa up near the front, but I can't imagine what Alonso's charge will be like tomorrow! If things get crazy at Saint Devote on the first lap Fred could be in mid pack by the time it sorts out.

Good efforts as well by both Vitantonio and Rubens for making it up into final qually.

[edv]

What are the chances of a Safety Car at Monaco? 50-50?

If I were Alonso, I'd start the race on the softs and just run 2 or 3 laps, then come in and get the harder compound for the remaining race (without falling a lap behind) and hope for a Safety Car.

He might be able to leapfrog the whole field , and even if his tires go off, we all remember what Enrique Bernoldi did to David Coulthard.

[ShiftingGears]

Have to admit, the camera director was very sub par. we were stuck watching the front straight with no idea of anyones times until they actually finished their laps for well over a minute at the end of quali.

[Saint Devote]

He wasn't too bad. Only two tenths behind Hamilton, which is a lot smaller than other teammate gaps in quali.

Jenson was really baulked by the soon to be EX-Ferrari d-head Massa out of Rascasse and into Anthony Noges on his best lap that would have had him higher and at the time possiibly up to second. He had to lift as Massa slowed on the line before moving out of the way. I would not place it out of the question that it was deliberate.

I hope Massa chucks it into the barriers tomorrow - pity it was Alonso and not the little near-sighted Brazilian moron. Should have been penalized because he is experienced enough not to be in that situation.

What a pity Lewis did not beat the stupid git!

[Saint Devote]

Webber is on FIRE! Great to see that he has entered that zone again - Vettel is looking decidedly number two these days.

I am really pleased to see Webber doing the business after so long. It is deservedly about time.

Actually a very satisfying front row with Kubica driving so well - and he is exciting to watch. With these two at the front it could be a real cracker of a Monaco Grand Prix tomorrow.

[ShiftingGears]

Jenson was really baulked by the soon to be EX-Ferrari d-head Massa out of Rascasse and into Anthony Noges on his best lap that would have had him higher and at the time possiibly up to second. He had to lift as Massa slowed on the line before moving out of the way. I would not place it out of the question that it was deliberate.

I don't think it was deliberate, but that's Monaco qualifying for you - sometimes you're the bug, other times you're the windscreen.

[Saint Devote]

I don't think it was deliberate, but that's Monaco qualifying for you - sometimes you're the bug, other times you're the windscreen.

At this stage I do not feel too kindly disposed towards the Brazilian to give him any benefit of the doubt :vader:

[Valve Bounce]

Who cares?? who cares!!

[Roamy]

What are the chances of a Safety Car at Monaco? 50-50?

If I were Alonso, I'd start the race on the softs and just run 2 or 3 laps, then come in and get the harder compound for the remaining race (without falling a lap behind) and hope for a Safety Car.

He might be able to leapfrog the whole field , and even if his tires go off, we all remember what Enrique Bernoldi did to David Coulthard.

I like it !!!! Good call

[UltimateDanGTR]

What are the chances of a Safety Car at Monaco? 50-50?

If I were Alonso, I'd start the race on the softs and just run 2 or 3 laps, then come in and get the harder compound for the remaining race (without falling a lap behind) and hope for a Safety Car.

He might be able to leapfrog the whole field , and even if his tires go off, we all remember what Enrique Bernoldi did to David Coulthard.

genious strategy! (well, aslong as that safety car was to come out)

there's no point trundling round behind the HRTs and Virgins, he might as well pit early and hope. and we all know what happened last time Alonso needed a safety car to win a race.....(but that won't hppen again, luckily)

[jens]

Sorry, but we do not have the 07-08 SC rules any more, so that there is no way Alonso would pit earlier and suddenly jump into the lead later on with a safety car. Those, who have managed to open up at least a 20-25 sec gap over Fernando, will be safe. And it's possible that at least the whole Top10 will manage that, while FA is fighting with slower cars.

[Tazio]

He has two new sets of softs
I think the best option is to start on the soft compound do 1 lap at the back pit and change to hard see what happens

My personal opinion is that he will crash out on, or about lap 5

[steveaki13]

genious strategy! (well, aslong as that safety car was to come out)

there's no point trundling round behind the HRTs and Virgins, he might as well pit early and hope. and we all know what happened last time Alonso needed a safety car to win a race.....(but that won't hppen again, luckily)


If Massa crashes on lap 3 or 4 and Alonso pits we will all cry foul again! :D :p :

[Mia 01]

I´m afraid that Lewis will cause a pileup at the start.

And remember all cutting thrue the first chikane will be punished.

[Hondo]

Liuzzi should have tried it, his chances to start any better than 10th were only depending on Button and Rubens making a mistake.

BTW how come Jensy is so slow?


Jensy wasn't slow. That's his normal pace

[Garry Walker]

Jenson was really baulked by the soon to be EX-Ferrari d-head Massa out of Rascasse and into Anthony Noges on his best lap that would have had him higher and at the time possiibly up to second. He had to lift as Massa slowed on the line before moving out of the way. I would not place it out of the question that it was deliberate.

I hope Massa chucks it into the barriers tomorrow - pity it was Alonso and not the little near-sighted Brazilian moron. Should have been penalized because he is experienced enough not to be in that situation.

What a pity Lewis did not beat the stupid git!

in the end that lap time did not matter. He wouldnt have ended in a better position anyway.


My hope for today - Schumacher for a podium, Alonso to the wall :D

[donKey jote]

My hope for today:
a decent race, Garry to the wall :dozey:

[ioan]

:laugh:
What happened to Jarno, he was overtaken within 1 lap by Alonso while Di Grassi managed to hold him for 3 laps?!

[ioan]

And now Alonso has Hamilton just in front of him! This is looking promising!

[ioan]

What the F is Massa waiting for? Kobayashi is on hard tires and will stay out for much longer.
And why the hell did Ferrari bring him in for tire change when it was clear that he will be stuck behind a car on harder tires? :down:

[donKey jote]

Team orders in Mercedes :p

[ioan]

The pit stop performances of the new teams are as awful as their race pace.

[donKey jote]

Schumi is probably still wondering why Alonso isn´t getting any blue flags :laugh:

[ioan]

Team orders in Mercedes :p

:laugh:

Hey Rubens was going to climb over the fence not only the rail guard! :rotflmao:

[ioan]

Is it me or Rubens had a flat tire (left rear) already before he crashed?!

[donKey jote]

think so...

[donKey jote]

Half race and a pretty decent P6 so far... only hope it lasts or improves :)

[ShiftingGears]

I hear Senna crashed in Monaco '88.

[Roamy]

WOW what a exciting parade. Now Webber gets to climb the stairs and kiss ole bad breath. If it weren't for Alonso they may deem this a soccer game.

This circuit is past its day. they need to build a new course up the hill and just have historic races on the horrible track.

A fitting end bunch the parade up so everyone can see the pretty colors.

Chandok says "But I know Oracle"

[donKey jote]

DONKEY hahahhahaha
welll done Schumi :up:

[ioan]

What a borefest this race was. Glad it's over.

Webber for driver of the race and Trulli for the Donkey prize.

[ShiftingGears]

LOL Schumacher you sly dog

[ShiftingGears]

Webber dominant again! Did not like the safety cars however.

[Langdale Forest]

shumacher could be investigated for cheating

[Langdale Forest]

What a borefest this race was. Glad it's over.



how could it be boring?, with rubens throwing his steering wheel onto the track and the trulli/chanhok indident at the end.

[ioan]

how could it be boring?, with rubens throwing his steering wheel onto the track and the trulli/chanhok indident at the end.

Accidents do not make it a good race.

[Langdale Forest]

Schumacher are almost confirmed to have cheated

[Nikki Katz]

Hehe, looks like Schumacher's being investigated :)
To be fair, it is a bit of a weird rule, but that's clearly against it.

[ioan]

shumacher could be investigated for cheating

According to the rules for this season overtaking is allowed as soon as the cars pass the SC line which here is situated after Rascasse.
Also the green flags were waved not the yellow ones, so racing was one for 300 meters or so.

[Hawkmoon]

Schumacher are almost confirmed to have cheated

Smile when you say that. He caught Alonso napping and passed him after the control line. Fair move that shows the old boy hasn't lost his mental edge.

[BTCC2]

Schumacher are almost confirmed to have cheated

It's hardly cheating is it

[Somebody]

BBC are now saying that if the SC only pulls in on the last lap, you can't overtake and must take the chequered flag in SC order.

Which, as DC said, is a bizarre rule - if the SC line is before the start/finish line and the SC has pulled in, you should be able to overtake between the two, or else the SC shouldn't be pulled in - but if that IS the rule...

[UltimateDanGTR]

so, on the scumacher incident from what the bbc gather the rules are:

You can overtake after the safety car line, a new rule for 2010
but
you can't overtake before the checkered flag.


right, makes perfect sense.

[markabilly]

Well, Speed channel says it was cheating and very very clear....right as they had another commercial and started showing nascar

[steveaki13]

The early stages up to the pit stops were OK and then the incidents in the last laps, the crash and Schumi's move on Alonso. However the 40 laps in between were not great. Can't remember anything happening in those laps.

I hope Schumi's move stands, as I think any rule saying when the SC comes in on the last lap there must not be any overtaking after the new SC line is wrong. They may as well have left the SC to cross the line. If the SC line is there and the SC comes in then passing must be aloud.

[Langdale Forest]

It's hardly cheating is it

But it could have been, so accept that.

[BTCC2]

Well, Speed channel says it was cheating and very very clear....right as they had another commercial and started showing nascar

It's simply not cheating. He didn't knowingly break the rules in order to gain an advantage.

[Langdale Forest]

It's simply not cheating. He didn't knowingly break the rules in order to gain an advantage.

So even if he broke the rules without knowing about it, could he avoid penalties?

[BTCC2]

But it could have been, so accept that.

No, it wasn't.

[BTCC2]

So even if he broke the rules without knowing about it, could he avoid penalties?

Of course not, but it doesn't make it cheating.

[Langdale Forest]

No, it wasn't.

It was controvelsial because the rules were rather unknown.

[steveaki13]

Strange that everyone is so unclear about this rule.

Even people involved are talking about the incident apparantly not quite knowing the rule.

[markabilly]

It's simply not cheating. He didn't knowingly break the rules in order to gain an advantage.
all i was repeating was what they were saying.....I really had a tough time seeing the race on Speed Channel as it was almost all commercials

[Somebody]

Ross Brawn's saying that the SC officially was pulled in, hence green flags/lights, rather than the race nominally finishing under the SC...

[Valve Bounce]

It was controvelsial because the rules were rather unknown.

..............and created a confusing situation. I just hope that they will reverse the finishing order of the two drivers and leave it at that.

[Zico]

so, on the scumacher incident from what the bbc gather the rules are:

You can overtake after the safety car line, a new rule for 2010
but
you can't overtake before the checkered flag.


right, makes perfect sense.

Indeed..

I was having a chuckle at the move thinking that Fred had been caught dozing and mugged by the wylie old fox, instead it looks like he may get penalised instead?.. or will he just have to give the place back?

Ross Brawn on just now.. saying the teams were told that the safety car was coming in ON the final lap and so in theory racing should still be allowed after its come in.. green flags waved, green lights on.. why not?

[steveaki13]

Ross Brawn just showed photo evidence of the incident and shows marshalls waving green flags after the SC line, this must mean drivers can overtake if not then Schumcher cannot be penalised, as when green flags wave racing is on.

I think it should stand as it was oppotunistic and a great moment and the only overtake on track amongst the top runners.

[donKey jote]

Alonso got caught napping whether he was told to or not...
Schumi should keep it :up:

[ioan]

It's simply not cheating. He didn't knowingly break the rules in order to gain an advantage.

The green flags were out so the FIA should hang themselves in this case not Schumacher, as green means race on.

[Langdale Forest]

why don't we blame it on alonso then?

[Valve Bounce]

Who the hell decided to bring the SC in so near the finish line? That was stupid if the intention is that the drivers cannot overtake/race. Otherwise it's a big bugger-up.

[ioan]

Ross Brawn just showed photo evidence of the incident and shows marshalls waving green flags after the SC line, this must mean drivers can overtake if not then Schumcher cannot be penalised, as when green flags wave racing is on.

I think it should stand as it was oppotunistic and a great moment and the only overtake on track amongst the top runners.

Exactly!
A huge cock-up by the FIA who can't follow their own rules. The incompetence of Charlie Whiting is unbearable and he should follow Max out of F1.

[ioan]

Who the hell decided to bring the SC in so near the finish line? That was stupid if the intention is that the drivers cannot overtake/race. Otherwise it's a big bugger-up.

It's a big FIA bugger up, Charlied had the green light on as soon as the SC left the track so racing was basically allowed, and any race driver should race when the lights are green without being penalized.

[i_max2k2]

I think a smart move in the End, Alonso caught napping, and I don't think this was wrong, As Ross Brawn said the rule refers to SC finishing the race, and that was not the case, the Safety Car did get back in before the race finished, I hope Schumacher takes the points!

[BTCC2]

..............and created a confusing situation. I just hope that they will reverse the finishing order of the two drivers and leave it at that.

I think it would be hugely unfair if Schumacher was punished further than that.

[steveaki13]

It's a big FIA bugger up, Charlied had the green light on as soon as the SC left the track so racing was basically allowed, and any race driver should race when the lights are green without being penalized.

Yer.

I think they may change their own strange rules for the next race, but this race the rules were wrong so they can't dare penalise him for their own mistakes.

[Somebody]

The track was clear - both visibly and according to Brawn's data. Ergo, they "had" to bring it in.

By the rules, the SC had to get out of the way anyway. The question is whether it was still technically brought in, or whether the race nominally ended under the SC.

[ioan]

Yer.

I think they may change their own strange rules for the next race, but this race the rules were wrong so they can't dare penalise him for their own mistakes.

The FIA does what it pleases even if it is the most obvious nonsense, it certainly wouldn't be the first time this happens.

[ST205GT4]

Schumacher deserves to keep the position just on the sheer brilliance of sticking it up Alonso on the last corner like that. Hilarious.

[steveaki13]

Also if Hill is the one to give him a penalty, the stewards can't win because everyone has been saying its Hills chance to punish Schumi.

So again I think they will talk amongst themselves and decide not to kick up alot of fuss.

[Somebody]

Schumacher is obviously very happy about it all, judging from his interview demeanour

[Dave B]

I think Brawn and Schumacher have just demonstrated why they won so much together!

So cunning you could brush your teeth with it...

[Tazio]

I think a little may be lost in the translation, but Marca is reporting that Fred said:
Mike can have the 6th! I'll whip his punk-ass anyway :p

[steveaki13]

I liked Schumachers interview on BBC, when reminded about Hill being on the stewards pannel, he smiled and said " Yes I heard that, so it could be interesting" :D

[Daika]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tj_226fdv-o
untill they take this link down. Saw a green flag

[donKey jote]

:laugh:

[Valve Bounce]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tj_226fdv-o
untill they take this link down. Saw a green flag

Well, well, well!! After watching that video, I opine that SchM should keep his 6th place. Fernando was weaving from wheelspin, looked to be in a spot of bother, and under the circumstances, I reckon overtaking was justified.

[steveaki13]

I also think Rubens may be spoken to for throwing his wheel right onto the racing line.

[Langdale Forest]

I also think Rubens may be spoken to for throwing his wheel right onto the racing line.

He should be spoken to really, but then there's no dening that it was funny. :rotflmao:

That's what I would have said to the stewards if i were Rubens... :uhoh:

[Dave B]

He should be spoken to really, but then there's no dening that it was funny. :rotflmao:
From some of your posts are you sure you wouldn't be better off watching a demolition derby or monster trucks? You seem to be a tad crash-happy. :s

[Langdale Forest]

From some of your posts are you sure you wouldn't be better off watching a demolition derby or monster trucks? You seem to be a tad crash-happy. :s

I never said that I liked crashes, they are bad, they destroy cars and the drivers chances of winning, but I do like funny moments like steering wheels being thrown onto the track. (providing it does not cause an accident)

[ioan]

From some of your posts are you sure you wouldn't be better off watching a demolition derby or monster trucks? You seem to be a tad crash-happy. :s

Looks like that to me too.

[Daika]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQerOq_7DcA

Ross Brawn defending move. Nice pictures

[ioan]

I never said that I liked crashes, they are bad, they destroy cars and the drivers chances of winning, but I do like funny moments like steering wheels being thrown onto the track. (providing it does not cause an accident)

Hmm:


how could it be boring?, with rubens throwing his steering wheel onto the track and the trulli/chanhok indident at the end.

[ioan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQerOq_7DcA

Ross Brawn defending move. Nice pictures

Let's see what the FIA can come up against a strong case like this, after all it was Charlie who turned on the green lights after the SC was in.

[markabilly]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQerOq_7DcA

Ross Brawn defending move. Nice pictures
excellent defense

had the fia said, "finish under the sc" and left the yellow lights on, then ms goes backward with a penalty perhaps, but as ross says...well looks like ms gets his spot, clearly

dont even need the kool aid to see that

as they say in nascar, it was a sprint to the line under green....

[donKey jote]

yep :up:
as the saying goes... it ain´t over til markabilly´s missus snorts :)

[Dave B]

To my mind the race didn't finish under the SC: it peeled in with 200 yards to go and the green flags were waved.

Schumacher and Brawn were amazingly cunning with what they did, and caught Alonso napping. Nice work :D

[markabilly]

yep :up:
as the saying goes... it ain´t over til markabilly´s missus snorts :)

:rotflmao:

[steveaki13]

Doesn't mean much, but on BBC they are saying they are getting unofficial word Schumi will keep his 6th place.

If that ends up being the case, then its a good decision.

[markabilly]

To my mind the race didn't finish under the SC: it peeled in with 200 yards to go and the green flags were waved.

Schumacher and Brawn were amazingly cunning with what they did, and caught Alonso napping. Nice work :D
if as ross says, the other drivers went at it full throttle, even more so.

so much for speed tv

although i must say that once again the fia err...err.. well...

[Chaparral66]

I watched the whole race here in the USA on SPEED TV and was shocked to see that pass by Schumacher on Alonso. Schuey is my guy but knowing he's done some stupid stuff before I was ready to jump down his throat for this move; but thanks to Daika, I got a good close look at the video and the track lights were clearly blinking green. At that point, the race is on and Schuey proved the veteran that he is and caught Alonso napping. There should be no repercussions on this at all. If there was a mistake made on the track, understandable, but it ain't Schuey's fault. There should be no fine or position penalty, and if anything, he deserves to keep 6th place.

[HereIam]

(From Autosport)

The sporting rules state that "If the race ends whilst the safety car is deployed it will enter the pitlane at the end of the last lap and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking."

So, it's illegal... it is true that you can now overtake after the white line before the pits, but not if it's the last lap, apparently...

[Chaparral66]

Thanks for linking to that YouTube video, Daika :)

[Daika]

Thanks for linking to that YouTube video, Daika :)

Thank the guy who is uploading it. :)

[markabilly]

(From Autosport)

The sporting rules state that "If the race ends whilst the safety car is deployed it will enter the pitlane at the end of the last lap and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking."

So, it's illegal... it is true that you can now overtake after the white line before the pits, but not if it's the last lap, apparently...
but they did not say race finishes under SC to the teams, they said SC in and turned on the green lights.

although I easily see why Ferrari did what they did......but who would have thought the old boy still had it in him.... :D

one thing it seemed to me is that Alonso had traction issues and spinning his rear tires and MS did not have it so bad,and got around...

[steveaki13]

(From Autosport)

The sporting rules state that "If the race ends whilst the safety car is deployed it will enter the pitlane at the end of the last lap and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking."

So, it's illegal... it is true that you can now overtake after the white line before the pits, but not if it's the last lap, apparently...

That may be the case but its the systems fault as the lights and flags were green which when seen be a driver in the heat of action and fans means that they assume racing is on, so if the rule as stated is true then as of the next event, if the same situation occurs they must flash yellow lights and continue to wave yellow flags.
Also meaning for this incident they can't punish Schumacher or Mercedes as the sitution wasn't handled correctly or clearly.

[TMorel]

Does anyone actually know (including the teams) what the official vocabulary is for "finishing under the safety car" ?

I think this is one of the times that the FIA's deliberately vague rules has backfired, and telling the teams that the safety car is in and then showing green lights MAY be how the FIA invisaged a "finish under safety car" to look like, but I think they've left themselves open this time and I'd imagine that the rules may be rewritten assuming that is that they want to keep this "no overtaking on the last lap" idea.

[Tazio]

(From Autosport)

The sporting rules state that "If the race ends whilst the safety car is deployed it will enter the pitlane at the end of the last lap and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking."

So, it's illegal... it is true that you can now overtake after the white line before the pits, but not if it's the last lap, apparently...Well it's a good thing Mike is no threat to Fred putting a thorough beat-down on his Ass
this season or he might actually care as much as everyone in the tabloid fantary world.

[Dave B]

Does anyone actually know (including the teams) what the official vocabulary is for "finishing under the safety car" ?
To me, "finishing under the safety car" means the safety car crossed the line with the race cars behind them - not what hapenned today.

[i_max2k2]

(From Autosport)

The sporting rules state that "If the race ends whilst the safety car is deployed it will enter the pitlane at the end of the last lap and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking."

So, it's illegal... it is true that you can now overtake after the white line before the pits, but not if it's the last lap, apparently...

I think it was not the End of the lap, I would think it would be after webber crosses the chequered flag. So I think the rule should not apply here, What do you guys think?

[donKey jote]

to me too, but the wording is so vague what is the option ?
if the SC enters after the race has finished is it to leave the cars to take the chequered flag twice ?

Whole thing is silly. Ferrari/Alonso fell asleep. Schumi pulled it off. The old hag farted. End of :)