Baltimore in Aug 2011.....?

[SarahFan]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-indy-racing-deal-20100505,0,5476288.story

[Mark in Oshawa]

I read an article on the idea when I was in the area last year...and I am not 100% sold on another street race BUT, it is nice the series is wanted still....

[nigelred5]

I"ve made my opinions on a GP in Baltimore well known on this foum and the old CCWS boards for years.

The area has vast experience handling crowds and traffic around the Inner Harbor and Stadium Complex, and I’m sure the city will handle this crowd just fine. Think Mortons, not McDonalds.
I have been touting Baltimore as a prime race site for years and keep my fingers crossed that it finally happens. Naysayers will point to many similar failed events in the past. It is a perfect market and a perfect venue to host such an event and is already light years ahead of cities that have attempted to use a race to spawn development. The development is already there in the Inner Harbor. Baltimore is already to host yet another world class event. I challenge anyone to find a venue the ideal combination of a perfect waterfront city backdrop, multiple modes of existing transportation, direct access to public transportation from the race venue to BWI airport and Penn Station; Multiple avenues of direct access to the primary interstate highway system on the east coast. Countless public facilities adjacent to the track, thousands of hotel rooms actually within the race course itself and several thousand more within eyesight of the track, existing pedestrian bridges to traverse the race course; dozens and dozens of restaurants, entertainment, cultural attractions and nightlife within a half mile radius of the track.
The event gets the horrible, high visibility gateway downtown city streets paved sooner than later. This is money that was already to have been spent to pave the exact same city streets that are badly in need of repair, and the quality paving job necessary to hold these events should result in a far better and longer lasting job than a simple coat of asphalt they would normally get. They will also have to greatly improve the current and future light rail tracks and crossings downtown as well. Even if the economic estimates are overly optimistic, I see it as a win- win for Baltimore and it gives a series trying to rebound a fresh market with little history of the split to negatively influence attendance.

[beachgirl]

I've spent a lot of time in Baltimore and the Inner Harbor area as a tourist, as it's only 90 minutes from my home. It's a great place, wonderful to take kids as there is a tremendous amount to do for families, beautiful area, and as the above poster said, very easy to get to, and is close to other major metropolitan areas on the East Coast.

It's scheduled for August, which is perfect vacation time for families. Spend a couple days in Baltimore, go to the race, go to the Aquarium (excellent place), the Science Museum and Imax Theatre right at Inner Harbor, take the harbor boat to Ft. McHenry, take in an Orioles major league game. All within walking distance of each other. Then go less than 100 miles away in one direction and visit the nation's Capital, and everyone should know all the great things to see and do there. Go less than 100 miles the other way, and spend a couple days in Philadelphia, with the Liberty Bell, Rittenhouse Square, Independence Hall, visit the home of Benjamin Franklin and other Founding Fathers, and on and on and on.

Go 75 miles in any direction and visit Civil War battlefields and museums, Harper's Ferry, and other major historical sites.

Win-win-win for everyone.

My husband and I have made all of these excursions. We will definitely be in Baltimore for the race.

[DanicaFan]

Im glad to see another race but not another street course. I do not want nor does the IRL need another street/road course. They lose ovals every year and pick up another road course. Im just curious to see which oval will be replaced by this race now.

Sounds to me like they want to be another champcar series and we all know what happened to that series.

[MDS]

I have heard from numerous sources this is happening next year.

[Dr. Krogshöj]

Im glad to see another race but not another street course. I do not want nor does the IRL need another street/road course. They lose ovals every year and pick up another road course. Im just curious to see which oval will be replaced by this race now.

Sounds to me like they want to be another champcar series and we all know what happened to that series.

It's not what the series wants, it's what's happening to the series. When the product gets undesireable, oval and road course owners don't want the series because they don't think they can sell enough tickets. Only street course promoters want the series because for a street festival, with mostly casual fans, any series would do.

[DanicaFan]

I have heard from numerous sources this is happening next year.

It was confirmed yesterday that will happen. The Board of Estimates signed a 5 year deal with the Baltimore Racing Development Corportation and the city got an $8 million grant to repave 2.4 miles of roads for the track. They are trying to shoot for an early August date in 2011.

[Lousada]

Impossible, downtowndeco said it would never happen!

[Lee Roy]

Bend over Baltimore taxpayers, here comes the IZOD Indy Car Series.

[dataman1]

It's not what the series wants, it's what's happening to the series. When the product gets undesireable, oval and road course owners don't want the series because they don't think they can sell enough tickets. Only street course promoters want the series because for a street festival, with mostly casual fans, any series would do.

IMO you are correct. Add to that, if the IRL has done their marketing demographic studies I bet they see that those with disposable income (money to buy tickets, hotels rooms, etc.) want good places to stay and eat. Maybe even places to entertain Mom and the kids while dad enjoys the qualifications and practice with the entire family attending the race.

[SarahFan]

Impossible, downtowndeco said it would never happen!


downtowndeco: a guy who has never been to race yet has all the answers

[Scotty G.]

Bend over Baltimore taxpayers, here comes the IZOD Indy Car Series.

Yep.

Street races are the only place the Indy Car series can go now and pretend they have crowds.

Too bad 98% of the people that attend these festivals never watch another race again that year.

It will be hotter then hell in August in Baltimore too. Hope they have saunas set up for the "patrons". ;)

[SarahFan]

if you are a current or potential sponsor and you see a schedule with either Kansas or Baltimore which would look better for a ROI?

[V12]

While I have nothing against street courses, I agree it's important to get the balance right with plenty of ovals and road courses as well (with the token airport thrown in!), I wouldn't want street courses to become a majority. People talk about Monaco in F1 but part of what makes Monaco special is it's uniqueness as a street course in a sea of proper purpose-built tracks (with the occasional other exception like Valencia and the US street circuits of the 1980s).

As for the venue itself well my only knowledge of the place is from watching The Wire which doesn't make me qualified to comment on that!

[Easy Drifter]

Delighted to see Scotty G accentuating the positives as usual. :rolleyes:

[garyshell]

Delighted to see Scotty G accentuating the positives as usual. :rolleyes:


And spouting of made up statistics as if they were real or he had some facts to back them up. "98%" Really? I wonder what orifice he pulled that from?

Gary

[Mark in Oshawa]

Yep.

Street races are the only place the Indy Car series can go now and pretend they have crowds.

Too bad 98% of the people that attend these festivals never watch another race again that year.

It will be hotter then hell in August in Baltimore too. Hope they have saunas set up for the "patrons". ;)

Scott...even if they never watch another race, maybe they MIGHT...because as it stands, right now, no one is providing any form of OW racing to this part of the US. As for the weather, I guess you haven't been to Toronto in July. I can remember plenty Molson Indy's where the humidity off Lake Ontario made the race a steam bath. WHen a guy from Houston complains about it, you know it was a world class steam bath, yet the guy I talked to from Jim Hall's team ( this was in the early 90's) said he didn't believe Canada could be that hot. I pointed out that is July often in Toronto.....so if Baltimore is hot, it isn't anything the locals aint used to...

As long as the IRL isn't on the hook for the race, and they don't lose an oval to make room for it, I can live with it. I don't think we keep needing more street courses either, and I love all forms of race tracks, but the setting is pretty unique. Long Beach East as it were..where a city with a rep for a seedy downtown has had a renaissance and added a race to really bring people back.

Will they be hard core fans? Maybe not all of them, but a few will show as Nigel and Beachgirl have pointed out.....

As for you Lee Roy, glad to see you are still alive but wonder why you are slumming over here since you hate the IRL so much. Your point about the taxpayers of Baltimore bending over though is taken well. I figure though, that is their problem, I am not worrying about it...I don't live there.

[elis]

Street races are the only place the Indy Car series can go now and pretend they have crowds.

Uh huh, but on ovals its so blatently obvious they don't have crowds. They can't 'pretend' as its impossible to disguise :p

*You've never actually been to LB I'm guessing from your somewhat absurd comment....


Too bad ??% of the people that attend these festivals never watch another race again that year.

Ditto that for the 500.


*Thumbs up for Baltimore, another new location to the sched, so its all good.. well to most of us ;)

[Scotty G.]

And spouting of made up statistics as if they were real or he had some facts to back them up. "98%" Really? I wonder what orifice he pulled that from?

Gary

0.8

That tells the story of "what orifice" I pulled that from.

If these street festivals were so great and added all of these new fans, then why don't they watch the races on TV? Why didn't all of those great Long Beach fans support Indy Cars at Fontana?

Why doesn't NASCAR run street races? If Indy Car could bring in huge crowds of 30,000, I am sure NASCAR could top that.

All this is, for Indy Car, is a money grab. And when Baltimore has had enough, they will move on to another city.

[Scotty G.]

because as it stands, right now, no one is providing any form of OW racing to this part of the US.


They were, until they dumped Richmond last year.

Of course, the 40,000 they got at Richmond won't be as cool as the 35,000 they get at Baltimore.


Hey, I hope the fine folks in Baltimore/DC have a good time and the league can add some more cash to the coffers. They certainly need every penny they can find right now.

But its "events" like Baltimore and the like, that only further widen the rest of the series with its marquis race. Street racing has absolutely nothing in common with the true history and heritage of 100 years of racing at IMS. Nothing.

[Lousada]

We had these precise arguments about street races 5 years ago on the Champcar board. The only thing lacking is a cache/sanguin type that rationalizes everything to a fault.

[garyshell]

Too bad 98% of the people that attend these festivals never watch another race again that year.


And spouting of made up statistics as if they were real or he had some facts to back them up. "98%" Really? I wonder what orifice he pulled that from?


0.8

That tells the story of "what orifice" I pulled that from.

If these street festivals were so great and added all of these new fans, then why don't they watch the races on TV? Why didn't all of those great Long Beach fans support Indy Cars at Fontana?

Why doesn't NASCAR run street races? If Indy Car could bring in huge crowds of 30,000, I am sure NASCAR could top that.

All this is, for Indy Car, is a money grab. And when Baltimore has had enough, they will move on to another city.


Just more diatribe and not a single shred of proof of your original 98% number. Gee, I wonder why? Mabe because the number was made up in the first place? Blah, blah blah. The beat (or is it bleat) goes on.

Gary

[Easy Drifter]

Two lemons and 3 sour grapes for Scotty.

[Scotty G.]

Just more diatribe and not a single shred of proof of your original 98% number. Gee, I wonder why? Mabe because the number was made up in the first place? Blah, blah blah. The beat (or is it bleat) goes on.

Gary


Gar, the stats are right there for you to see.

If all of these fans from St. Pete and Long Beach were so great and into Indy Cars, then why aren't the ratings from Tampa/St. Pete and LA near the top each week in the Neilsen's for Indy Car? Answer that one for me? Why was Fontana a ghost-town for Indy Cars? Was it too long a drive from Long Beach to Fontana? If they were such great fans of the sport, then wouldn't they travel to watch the cars and stars at another venue? NASCAR fans (most of whom live in the SE) travel to Bristol and Darlington and Charlotte and Atlanta. And they are redneck rubes, who probably don't even have plumbing (that is a joke that some here probably believe). :p

Here are some more pesky facts for you....the 2 best markets almost every weekend for Indy Cars are Indianapolis and Columbus, Ohio. Why? There are REAL race fans in Indiana and Ohio, that actually WATCH Indy Car Racing. Not as many as there used to be, but still many more then any other market in the country. Its also why Indianapolis and Mid Ohio have always been well attended (with Mid Ohio being one of the few natural terrain RC that have been traditionally well attended for IC).

The vast, vast majority of patrons at Long Beach and St. Pete are fans of the event itself. That's it. Its obvious that those events have not created very many new actual RACE fans, that support the series 365 a year (or even a few other days out of the year). Are they successful events for both the promoter and the series? In these 2 cases, yes. Are they making the series better, by creating more fans and creating a good racing/business product to sell to sponsors and for TV? Very debatable.


If Indy Cars had to rely on the infield crowd at Indy (which is very much like the average "fan" at many street races), they'd be in the same boat. Most of those people at Indy, couldn't tell you what day it was let alone what race they were supposed to be "watching". Its a big party too. And there are many folks who go to Indy because its Indy and its a tradition. They might not care a thing about Indy Cars either. But there are plenty of real race fans that go too. Most of whom, probably will watch another Indy Car race during the year (and could name more then the driver of the #7 car).


Adding Baltimore in August, will be interesting. The weather in that part of the country in August can be unbelievably uncomfortable (VERY HOT and HUMID). Baltimore is not a racing city and like most of America, only thinks NASCAR (if it thinks anything about racing at all). Will the race fans from nearby Dover and Richmond come? Can they draw some folks from Philly (which Nazereth used to do)? With NASCAR's season in high gear and the Ravens and Redskins starting their season in August, will anybody care and will the media even bother covering it?

[garyshell]

None of which supports your assertion that 98% of the folks never see another race. You can throw out all the fluff and diversions you want, but you still have not addressed the original point that I said was BS.

Gary

[Scotty G.]

None of which supports your assertion that 98% of the folks never see another race. You can throw out all the fluff and diversions you want, but you still have not addressed the original point that I said was BS.

Gary


Not going to argue with you, Gar.

I am right.

[garyshell]

I am right.


Prove it! Just declaring yourself right won't cut it. You are wrong and you know it. You have no facts what so ever to back up your claim. If you did you would have shown them by now.

Gary

[SarahFan]

same ol' same ol'

[nigelred5]

Gar, the stats are right there for you to see.

If all of these fans from St. Pete and Long Beach were so great and into Indy Cars, then why aren't the ratings from Tampa/St. Pete and LA near the top each week in the Neilsen's for Indy Car? Answer that one for me? Why was Fontana a ghost-town for Indy Cars? Was it too long a drive from Long Beach to Fontana? If they were such great fans of the sport, then wouldn't they travel to watch the cars and stars at another venue? NASCAR fans (most of whom live in the SE) travel to Bristol and Darlington and Charlotte and Atlanta. And they are redneck rubes, who probably don't even have plumbing (that is a joke that some here probably believe). :p

Here are some more pesky facts for you....the 2 best markets almost every weekend for Indy Cars are Indianapolis and Columbus, Ohio. Why? There are REAL race fans in Indiana and Ohio, that actually WATCH Indy Car Racing. Not as many as there used to be, but still many more then any other market in the country. Its also why Indianapolis and Mid Ohio have always been well attended (with Mid Ohio being one of the few natural terrain RC that have been traditionally well attended for IC).

The vast, vast majority of patrons at Long Beach and St. Pete are fans of the event itself. That's it. Its obvious that those events have not created very many new actual RACE fans, that support the series 365 a year (or even a few other days out of the year). Are they successful events for both the promoter and the series? In these 2 cases, yes. Are they making the series better, by creating more fans and creating a good racing/business product to sell to sponsors and for TV? Very debatable.


If Indy Cars had to rely on the infield crowd at Indy (which is very much like the average "fan" at many street races), they'd be in the same boat. Most of those people at Indy, couldn't tell you what day it was let alone what race they were supposed to be "watching". Its a big party too. And there are many folks who go to Indy because its Indy and its a tradition. They might not care a thing about Indy Cars either. But there are plenty of real race fans that go too. Most of whom, probably will watch another Indy Car race during the year (and could name more then the driver of the #7 car).


Adding Baltimore in August, will be interesting. The weather in that part of the country in August can be unbelievably uncomfortable (VERY HOT and HUMID). Baltimore is not a racing city and like most of America, only thinks NASCAR (if it thinks anything about racing at all). Will the race fans from nearby Dover and Richmond come? Can they draw some folks from Philly (which Nazereth used to do)? With NASCAR's season in high gear and the Ravens and Redskins starting their season in August, will anybody care and will the media even bother covering it?

Scotty G, Baltimore may not be a AUTOMOBILE racing city in your terms, because it's never been allowed to be. Not by the government, the print media nor the television broadcasters. The few automobile tracks we had in the area caved to developers over the years, not because of poor attendance. Someone is finally giving it the chance again.

We do have this little event in town coming up next Saturday called the Preakness you may have heard about ;) It's a two week long celebration of horsepower of the literal sense. That celebration easily rivals anything I've witnessed personally in Indiannapolis surrounding the 500, and I venture to say has had just as much economic impact on this regions' economy as car racing has had in Indiannapolis. Unfortunately, it has suffered a similar decline in recent years when you attempt to strip personal vices like gambling, tobacco and alcohol out of the sport.

IMHO, simply by virtue of location, amenities and existing available services, Baltimore has always been a far better potential street race venue than just about any of those proposed, or attempted in the past. I'm not a huge fan of the exact course they have proposed as I feel there are a couple key streets that would add scenic vistas, simplify the course, add significant speed to the lap times and most importantly additional passing opportunities the current course doesn't optimize, however it involves encircling three federal buildings, several key businesses and if they need to include the Camden yards complex for the pits, would essentially require directly touching the streets bounding the University of Maryland Medical Center in one area which would never fly.

One thing I can say without hesitation, there is no race course on the planet that will have the quality and accessability of medical trauma services as are available at the R Adams Cowley Shock trauma center 1 block from the track that this course will have and hopefully never have to utilize.

[Lee Roy]

I give this race one year, two at the most.

[Scotty G.]

Prove it! Just declaring yourself right won't cut it. You are wrong and you know it. You have no facts what so ever to back up your claim. If you did you would have shown them by now.

Gary


If you would actually READ what I wrote and the stats (which say that Los Angelas and Tampa/St Pete's race ratings for Indy Car is basically non-existant) then you'd get it.

Once again, if these events created all of these new "fans", then why don't they watch and support the rest of the series? The stats say, they do not. .nothing ratings prove this out each week.

As I already posted earlier (which you must have missed)....These are event only fans. These are party fans. These are "people watchers" There for the beer and pretty women and sunshine. The vast, vast majority are NOT race fans. If you want to argue this, then you are just being silly and delusional.

Much like the infield crowd at Indy. And some of the patrons that come to the race at Indy every year. Fans of the event. Not the sport.

Only difference is that Indianapolis gets the best TV ratings for Indy Car races throughout the year. Columbus Ohio is 2nd. Nobody else is even close (or even register most of the time).

Them's the facts. And I am right. ;)

[Easy Drifter]

Only 1 lemon and 4 sour cherries for Scotty this time.

[garyshell]

Them's the facts. And I am right. ;)

Obviously you never took a statistics class or a logic class for that matter. None of this continued drivel proves your assertion that "98% of the people that attend these festivals never watch another race again that year".

Gary

[SarahFan]

'logic class'

[Scotty G.]

Obviously you never took a statistics class or a logic class for that matter. None of this continued drivel proves your assertion that "98% of the people that attend these festivals never watch another race again that year".

Gary


The facts are right there for the open minded folks to see.

If you don't want to see the truth, then I can't do anything about that.

Gar, you win. Long Beach has created hundreds of thousands raving Indy Car fans, that support the series year-round. They must all listen on the radio though. Or they must not have the jack to go to other races (like Fontana and Sonoma) or watch other races on TV.

[Mark in Oshawa]

The facts are right there for the open minded folks to see.

If you don't want to see the truth, then I can't do anything about that.

Gar, you win. Long Beach has created hundreds of thousands raving Indy Car fans, that support the series year-round. They must all listen on the radio though. Or they must not have the jack to go to other races (like Fontana and Sonoma) or watch other races on TV.

Gee Scott, I don't go to ANY races now. Does that make me less a fan? I am not allowed to watch?

You are just being silly. Regardless of where the fans are or not, people in Baltimore WANT the series there. They WANT it. I guess kicking them in the teeth would make you happy?

NASCAR doesn't race on street courses because they are an oval series. They wouldn't run on road courses if they didn't want to just break things up and meet new markets.

[Easy Drifter]

1 lemon and only 2 sour cherries for Scotty this time.

[garyshell]

Gar, you win. Long Beach has created hundreds of thousands raving Indy Car fans, that support the series year-round. They must all listen on the radio though. Or they must not have the jack to go to other races (like Fontana and Sonoma) or watch other races on TV.


Oh, so now this is about what I said huh? Let's be perfectly clear, I did not say anything like what is suggested above. I said YOUR assertion that 98% of the street race crowd never sees another race. That was and is BS and you know you can't back it up, hence your lame attempt to divert. You have a real penchant for hyperbole and when called on it weave, divert and obfuscate instead of just stating you have no facts.

My question though still remains. Why ARE you here?

Gary

[Mark in Oshawa]

Oh, so now this is about what I said huh? Let's be perfectly clear, I did not say anything like what is suggested above. I said YOUR assertion that 98% of the street race crowd never sees another race. That was and is BS and you know you can't back it up, hence your lame attempt to divert. You have a real penchant for hyperbole and when called on it weave, divert and obfuscate instead of just stating you have no facts.

My question though still remains. Why ARE you here?

Gary

We know why he is here, he is here to dump on the series because they don't do what he thinks should be done. I can live with that, but for someone so unhappy with the series, I wonder why a) he watches and b) he cares?

I am unhappy with some of the things he brings up, but unlike Scott, I try to understand the economics and reasoning. Unlike Scott, I don't think it is a personal vendetta to annoy him.

There are a lot things wrong with Indycar, but there are a lot of things that are right too...

[Scotty G.]

Oh, so now this is about what I said huh? Let's be perfectly clear, I did not say anything like what is suggested above. I said YOUR assertion that 98% of the street race crowd never sees another race. That was and is BS and you know you can't back it up, hence your lame attempt to divert. You have a real penchant for hyperbole and when called on it weave, divert and obfuscate instead of just stating you have no facts.

My question though still remains. Why ARE you here?

Gary


Keep on singing Gar.

Why can't YOU back up the FACTS that say the Southern California market for Indy Cars is basically non-existant in TV ratings? Why is that? If you think the Long Beach Grand Prix has created all of these hundreds of thousands of Indy Car nuts, then shouldn't they be paying attention to other events? Don't those folks have TV's out there?

These are event fans. Period. And if its not 98%, its 95%. If you want to argue semantics, go right ahead.

MOST people who attend the Long Beach Grand Prix, don't give a rip about Indy Car Racing and don't know jack about the sport. As PT once correctly said, they are there for the "pretty women, beer gardens and sunshine". The racing? Just background noise.

Sorry if the truth offends you.

[Easy Drifter]

2 lemons and 2 sour cherries for Scotty.

[Scotty G.]

2 lemons and 2 sour cherries for Scotty.

Thanks. :D

I wuv lemonade and cherry cola.

[Lee Roy]

NASCAR doesn't race on street courses because they are an oval series.

No, NASCAR doesn't run on street courses because they don't HAVE to.

In the US, racing series race on street courses like musicians (buskers) perform on streets. NASCAR can get enough paying customers into race tracks to be successful like real musicians can get paying customers into musical auditoriums.

[garyshell]

Keep on singing Gar.

Why can't YOU back up the FACTS that say the Southern California market for Indy Cars is basically non-existant in TV ratings? Why is that? If you think the Long Beach Grand Prix has created all of these hundreds of thousands of Indy Car nuts, then shouldn't they be paying attention to other events? Don't those folks have TV's out there?

These are event fans. Period. And if its not 98%, its 95%. If you want to argue semantics, go right ahead.

MOST people who attend the Long Beach Grand Prix, don't give a rip about Indy Car Racing and don't know jack about the sport. As PT once correctly said, they are there for the "pretty women, beer gardens and sunshine". The racing? Just background noise.

Sorry if the truth offends you.

Keep on diverting, weaving and obfuscating there ol' Scotty. Once again you show nothing to back up your assertion that 98% of those folks never see another race. And now it's "MOST people who attend", 51% is a far cry from 98% isn't it.

Give it up Scotty, you have nothing. We know it. You know it.

To quote Jack Nicholson, "You can't stand the truth".

Gary

[ICWS]

Keep on singing Gar.

Why can't YOU back up the FACTS that say the Southern California market for Indy Cars is basically non-existant in TV ratings? Why is that? If you think the Long Beach Grand Prix has created all of these hundreds of thousands of Indy Car nuts, then shouldn't they be paying attention to other events? Don't those folks have TV's out there?

These are event fans. Period. And if its not 98%, its 95%. If you want to argue semantics, go right ahead.

MOST people who attend the Long Beach Grand Prix, don't give a rip about Indy Car Racing and don't know jack about the sport. As PT once correctly said, they are there for the "pretty women, beer gardens and sunshine". The racing? Just background noise.

Sorry if the truth offends you.

Even if Scotty G's percentages are exaggerated, the point is that IndyCar struggles to make fans out of the attendees who go to the race in their area. Its fair to say that a considerable amount of people are there for the atmosphere and side shows and not so much for the racing at hand. They also probably don't watch other races during the rest of the season (with the exception of the Indy 500) on T.V. However, I don't think the series minds this so much, as long as tickets are being sold. That is why they are trying to add more street races (Quebec City, Baltimore, China, Houston, etc.); as long as 100,000 people are there during the race weekend (without necessarily watching the racing), it is still considered a success for the series. In comparison, the gathering of 20,000 people (out of 65,000 seats) that come to Homestead to actually watch the race is considered a failure and that's why the series is looking to leave oval/road tracks for street circuits.

Obviously, this attendance struggle at oval tracks and road courses are a result of the mediocre racing at these tracks (especially ovals). The other factor is the how the event is promoted. People who come to the track are probably expecting more than a 2.5-hour race; they want other entertainment to be there as well. I know I've metioned this in another post; hopefully the series' new car improves the quality of racing (on both oval tracks and road/street courses) and they convince track owners (at struggling tracks) to incorporate the atmosphere of a street circuit race at their own tracks.

Also, hopefully they can get Versus to broadcast their races on NBC, which would provide better T.V. exposure. Versus could still be around to broadcast practices, qualifying, pre/post race coverage and taped races later in the week. It would be cool if IndyCar could be the lead-in to Sunday Night Football on NBC. Maybe in the future (when the current T.V. contracts are up) IndyCar can broadcast all their races on NBC and have little competition on that network (hockey, golf, horse racing, tennis and summer olympics are the only afternoon sports on NBC) and they could advertise their races while those sports are on. ESPN/ABC provides an odd situation for the series, as that network has too many sports and seems to prefer broadcasting bowling and ladies' golf over IndyCar.

[tfisch100]

Street races are fun even to people that like to watch crowds of cars traveling at the same speed on the highway (ovals). I would rather have 20 races that look crowded on TV than 10 that have empty grandstands. You may not get a fan out of every person that attends a street race, but you will get some. You don't get too many fans after they sit in a hot grandstand all day watching cars drive around not passing each other.

The race will be the weekend of August 5-7. The Inner Harbor Sheraton, which is inside the proposed tack, is already full that weekend.

[nigelred5]

The Hilton Baltimore and Hyatt Regency Hotels are also inside the track. Hyatt has far better views facing Light street. The Hilton is bounded on two sides by the track on Camden and Pratt Streets, is adjacent to Camden Yards and the convention Center and is brand new. It will have views onto Pratt Street, Camden, and Russel Streets. The Baltimore Marriot Inner Harbor is at Pratt and Eutaw on the outside of the second straight. Days Inn is on Hopkins Place sitting at a right angle to Pratt street across the street from the Convention Center. The Holiday Inn is between Howard and Hopkins place 1 block off the track. South Facing rooms can see Pratt street.

If I were booking, which I may to njoy the whole weekend, I'd book the Hyatt Regency or the Hilton.

[Scotty G.]

However, I don't think the series minds this so much, as long as tickets are being sold.


Of course they don't. Just sell some tickets to a festival and move on to the next city. Just like a bunch of Carnie workers.


The rest of your post BTW, was spot-on. I hope our friend Gary could comprehend it. ;)

[nigelred5]

I forgot the Renaissance Hotel which is at the end of the straight on Pratt Street across from the Harborplace Pratt Street Pavilion. That's another 486 hotel rooms directly adjacent to the track.

[nigelred5]

Someting that has not been mentioned, I've now seen two reports that have mentioned Indycar AND the ALMS for this race. I don't know if that is just a remnant of when the organizers were pursuing a sanctioning body to land a race, of if that element has somehow flown under the radar. A double-header IRL/ALMS like Long Beach would just rock!

[nigelred5]

With thousands more rooms within 20 minutes of the track. Fly into BWI and light rail takes you right to the track. You don't even have to rent a car. I'll be commuting from home though.

As an aside, anyone planning on coming who is interested in good craft beer, there are several places within walking distance of the track.


I think there are approximately 3k rooms actually within or in properties touching the track. Hell, there are several thousand more within the inner harbor and Harbor east areas, all well within walking distance or a short hop on the free circulator bus.


I'm already debating the same thing. A weekend at the Hyatt or the new Marriott might not be so bad.

[Lee Roy]

Someting that has not been mentioned, I've now seen two reports that have mentioned Indycar AND the ALMS for this race. I don't know if that is just a remnant of when the organizers were pursuing a sanctioning body to land a race, of if that element has somehow flown under the radar. A double-header IRL/ALMS like Long Beach would just rock!

I would go to see ALMS.

[dataman1]

With thousands more rooms within 20 minutes of the track. Fly into BWI and light rail takes you right to the track. You don't even have to rent a car. I'll be commuting from home though.

As an aside, anyone planning on coming who is interested in good craft beer, there are several places within walking distance of the track.

Starter,

If you can remember about a month before the race next year, place a new post with the locations of these "good craft beer" spots. I'll check them out.

Tks

[Mark in Oshawa]

Of course they don't. Just sell some tickets to a festival and move on to the next city. Just like a bunch of Carnie workers.


The rest of your post BTW, was spot-on. I hope our friend Gary could comprehend it. ;)

So we will go to races where of course, everyone will sign a contract to watch all the IRL races on TV from here on after, and the races will all be ovals because of course no one should EVER turn right.....

Do you really think about how silly your anti-street race tirade sounds? I am against more street races because I believe the series should be a 50/50 blend of street/race tracks and ovals to provide the competitive balance and contrast. You just hate the idea because you don't understand or grasp the concept of road races. That is fine...just say you don't like it. Fine....we get it...but don't tell us that is a bad thing that Baltimore could sell tickets to 120000 people over a weekend to come watch a street race. Lets face it, if Richmond drew that well, the IRL would be there THIS year....just like they would still be going to Michigan if they drew well enough.

[NaBUru38]

Someting that has not been mentioned, I've now seen two reports that have mentioned Indycar AND the ALMS for this race. I don't know if that is just a remnant of when the organizers were pursuing a sanctioning body to land a race, of if that element has somehow flown under the radar. A double-header IRL/ALMS like Long Beach would just rock!

Yes indeed. Read this (http://charmcitycurrent.com/brd/2010/05/10/the-baltimore-grand-prix-2011/) for more information.

[nigelred5]

Yes, that is one of the places I've read that. Can't remember who else was reporting that the ALMS was involved. Maybe ill stop out this afternoon and see what Gunnar knows about the ALMS being involved.

[Mark in Oshawa]

An interesting side note. I was at Mahaffey's Pub in Canton tonight (in Baltimore). Two separate people that I know only as acquaintances, and who are only sort of peripherally aware that I have anything at all to do with racing, asked me what I knew about the race next year and whether it was something they should pay attention to and consider attending. It seems the word is out early and often about town.

I remember the first year the races were coming to Toronto. It was like that on steroids...there was a buzz around town from the moment it was announced. Sounds like Baltimore is getting into the idea...

[nigelred5]

Well, the official announcement was made today. AUGUST 5-7, 2011. I hope they are planning to line the place with cling stations. That tends to be one of the hottest weeks of the year.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Well, the official announcement was made today. AUGUST 5-7, 2011. I hope they are planning to line the place with cling stations. That tends to be one of the hottest weeks of the year.

Ya buddy!! I hear ya. Been in Maryland in the summer, and found it a sauna BUT it is the same likely as it will be in Texas this weekend when they run there, and I know it can be and has been that hot in Toronto back in the day when CART ran up here. I remember the 92 race it was 93 and the humidity was sitting around 95%....which I believe is similar. Yet the place was full. People who love racing in the summer will find ways to come out anyhow....drinking more beer if nothing else!!!

[nigelred5]

Yeah, it's DEFINITELY NOT a dry heat around here in August, that's for sure.

I'll be there. I may be wearing a cool suit hooked up to a 96Qt cooler full of ice water, but I'll be there.

They definitely have to get the race in before Football season starts. They need every square inch available for Raven's games. Baseball crowds are so small, it won't affect the area as much and I'm sure they will probably schedule the O's on a road trip for a couple weeks around the race. Or maybe schedule the Yankees or Sox in town that week to really pump the crowd numbers Downtown!

[markabilly]

Been in Baltimore in August years ago. Not that hot compared to Texas, except austin stays fairly moderate all year long......I was going to be in austin, but since people are smart enough in baltimore not to be paying Bernie 25 million in tax dollars just so he will let some race cars show up, not so inclined as before......I think I might visit baltimore instead or seca, if Irl ever decides to go there....the crabcakes, fish and beer were excellent....in both places

[MDS]

I know its premature, but we don't know if the ALMS will even be around next year. There have been a lot of rumors about ALMS, Grand Am and others merging... If its Grand Am then I think the odds of NASCAR lending the ICS a support series is fairly low.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I know its premature, but we don't know if the ALMS will even be around next year. There have been a lot of rumors about ALMS, Grand Am and others merging... If its Grand Am then I think the odds of NASCAR lending the ICS a support series is fairly low.

I don't see the Grand AM and ALMS guys in bed any time soon. That said, if it happens, it would make some sense, but Grand AM has a few major hurdles if it wants to swallow up IMSA. It just isn't going to happen in the next year unless ALMS folds up like a cheap suit, and I don't see that happening at all.

[PAcartfan]

Do I think racing in Baltimore will make a dent the TV ratings? No. However...

I live an hour north of BMO and I can tell you that myself and a friend of mine are diehards (CART/ CCWS/ and now very reluctantly IRL) and we are booking a minimum of 3 hotel rooms for 2-3 nights, and have at least a dozen people committed to coming down for at least Sunday's race with 14 months left to recruit. I am calling several bus companies to encourage them to run charters as they do for Dover and Pocono. This event is going to be HUGE for MD and southern PA- not to mention the rest of the Mid-Atlantic region. If Randy and the PR team in Indy can do even a halfway decent job of promoting this, you will see a grand slam in year one of this event.

Does anyone have any pull with MLB to get the Yanks or Sox that weekend? Too bad the NFL will be in Canton. A nice Ravens game would be cool too...

[NickFalzone]

I may go to this event as well. It's probably a shorter drive than I make to the Glen, and I've never been to a true street race before. On a side note, it would be nice if the IRL considered NJ Motorsports Park, very high quality road course in a densely populated area.

[nigelred5]

I may go to this event as well. It's probably a shorter drive than I make to the Glen, and I've never been to a true street race before. On a side note, it would be nice if the IRL considered NJ Motorsports Park, very high quality road course in a densely populated area.


Once NJMSP is really truly finished, I would agree. I just wish they had stuck with the combined long course originally planned. The long flowing 4+ mile combined long course would have been awesome for a sportscar endurance event. It's great having a nice new facility so close to home ( 75 minutes unless we stop and eat).

I'm probably heading over there in a few weeks with a friend to help him get in some track time on his Yamaha R1, and will definitely be there for the Grand Am and AMA events again.

[nigelred5]

Do I think racing in Baltimore will make a dent the TV ratings? No. However...

I live an hour north of BMO and I can tell you that myself and a friend of mine are diehards (CART/ CCWS/ and now very reluctantly IRL) and we are booking a minimum of 3 hotel rooms for 2-3 nights, and have at least a dozen people committed to coming down for at least Sunday's race with 14 months left to recruit. I am calling several bus companies to encourage them to run charters as they do for Dover and Pocono. This event is going to be HUGE for MD and southern PA- not to mention the rest of the Mid-Atlantic region. If Randy and the PR team in Indy can do even a halfway decent job of promoting this, you will see a grand slam in year one of this event.

Does anyone have any pull with MLB to get the Yanks or Sox that weekend? Too bad the NFL will be in Canton. A nice Ravens game would be cool too...

I know someone within the Orioles Organization.... I haven't spoken to him yet, but I agree, adding a yankees or Sox game could certainly pad the attendance and entertainment options. I'd like to see a major concert event Friday or saturday evening, they've got two stadiums and several established outdoor venues like Powerplant Live and Pier Six to choose from.

[nigelred5]

Been in Baltimore in August years ago. Not that hot compared to Texas, except austin stays fairly moderate all year long......I was going to be in austin, but since people are smart enough in baltimore not to be paying Bernie 25 million in tax dollars just so he will let some race cars show up, not so inclined as before......I think I might visit baltimore instead or seca, if Irl ever decides to go there....the crabcakes, fish and beer were excellent....in both places

Baltimore 1st week of August = Houston in may and June most years. Airfare between here and Houston or San Antonio is usually pretty cheap. I've been to Houston many times in the summer visiting family. It's definitely the humidity you need to be concerned with. I could wring my shirt after ten minutes yesterday morning. The past week was pretty bad for June, and the bay water was already up to 74 degrees on saturday. Felt great, but waay too warm already.

[nigelred5]

Well, the downtown paving work started monday Morning. A friend with BGE was telling me they are already running into issues with gas mains. Seeing reports again about the ALMS being added to the Baltimore race, modifications to the original proposed course route, as well as the potential of a different date later in the summer if it doesn't conflict with the Ravens and orioles schedules. I'd much rather see a September date than early August.

[DanicaFan]

The Baltimore race has now been moved to Labor Day weekend next year on September 2-4, 2011. Here is the track layout..

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee236/DanicaRules/baltimore.jpg

[Otto-Matic]

I am totally going to this. gonna definitely hit the Loudon Indy race (less than an hour from my pad) and then go to Baltimore and stay at my brother's apartment for the weekend. He doesn't know this yet but if I buy him a ticket, how could he say no?!?

[DanicaFan]

I am totally going to this. gonna definitely hit the Loudon Indy race (less than an hour from my pad) and then go to Baltimore and stay at my brother's apartment for the weekend. He doesn't know this yet but if I buy him a ticket, how could he say no?!?

Sounds like a good plan to me. ;)

[NickFalzone]

Good to hear this is confirmed. I will definitely be going.

[nigelred5]

Much better layout, probably allows Russell street to remain partially open and also allows open access to fans to the paddock and pits without crossing the track. That change will allow the cars to exit the paddock inside the convention center and move straight to the track and pits. It will also put the pits in the shade of the warehouse after about noon. That's going to allow them to increase use of the stadium lots Camden and. Eutaw for grandstands, stages and much better fan circulation.. it also probably eliminates quite a bit of repaving and intersection work around Russel Camden and Pratt streets as well as eliminates a slow Mickey mouse around the stadium and that hairpin. On Russel and adds what should be a pretty killer setof turns through the stadium lots and from Russell street onto Pratt that they lost in the original layout.

[NaBUru38]

August 14 is for New Hampshire and September 4 is for Baltimore. Where would the IndyCar race on August 21 and/or 28? Edmonton or Sonoma would be a long trip. Chicago would be too close to the Chase for the Cup race. That leaves us Mid-Ohio, which would conflict with traditional Road America and Mosport ALMS races. What do you think it will happen?

[nigelred5]

They have already statex they will be splitting the indycar and alms races at mid ohio next year, so my guess would be mid ohio between new hampshire and baltimore. Don't forget we've seen several reports around here that the Baltimore event may include the ALMS as well. With the changes to the track just announced,I think there should be plenty of paddock space. Looking at the course changes, I'm also seeing what I think may be efforts toto get grandstand placed so they fall in the afternoon shadows of buildings downtown. It so suprisd me to see start finish is now on Pratt street right in front of the Convention center entrance, and not in the vicinity of the pits. I can't wait for this race next season.

[nigelred5]

I haven't seen a track length for the revised course, but without plotting it on the map, it looks to have shortened the track at least a 1/4 mile or more.

[nigelred5]

I haven't seen a track length for the revised course, but without plotting it on the map, it looks to have shortened the track at least a 1/4 mile or more.


Man, looking at that last post I can see how bad I type on the Droid!

[Lee Roy]

Don't forget we've seen several reports around here that the Baltimore event may include the ALMS as well.

I hope so. I'd love to see an ALMS race again.

[Dr. Krogshöj]

I haven't seen a track length for the revised course, but without plotting it on the map, it looks to have shortened the track at least a 1/4 mile or more.


Man, looking at that last post I can see how bad I type on the Droid!

It looks more like 2 miles to me, but it would be fairly easy to measure it in Google Earth.

[NaBUru38]

2011 American Le Mans Series season:
July 3 - TBD (Miller? Oklahoma?)
August 6 - Mid-Ohio
August 21 - Road America
September 3 - TBA (Baltimore?)

[Mark in Oshawa]

2011 American Le Mans Series season:
July 3 - TBD (Miller? Oklahoma?)
August 6 - Mid-Ohio
August 21 - Road America
September 3 - TBA (Baltimore?)

I would be shocked if that Sept. 3 date isn't Baltimore....

I know they have worked with the CCWS/CART in the past, and they have worked with the IRL before also.

The only downside to the ALMS is that their fans are in many cases just THEIR fans...so you may not see the same crowd the next day when the IRL runs.