NY bomb attack

[Bob Riebe]

With this Bloomberg quote leading the way: Law enforcement officials don't know who left the Nissan Pathfinder behind, but at this point the Mayor believes the suspect acted alone.

"If I had to guess, twenty five cents, this would be exactly that," Bloomberg said. "Homegrown maybe a mentally deranged person or someone with a political agenda that doesn't like the health care bill or something. It could be anything."

Now add that to the asinine babbling that most "major" new org. flatulated out last night, it should be obvious the inmates are running the asylum.
Who ever the blonde bimbo is that Fox has on weekends, the chick is a moron on a good day.

[Mark in Oshawa]

With this Bloomberg quote leading the way: Law enforcement officials don't know who left the Nissan Pathfinder behind, but at this point the Mayor believes the suspect acted alone.

"If I had to guess, twenty five cents, this would be exactly that," Bloomberg said. "Homegrown maybe a mentally deranged person or someone with a political agenda that doesn't like the health care bill or something. It could be anything."

Now add that to the asinine babbling that most "major" new org. flatulated out last night, it should be obvious the inmates are running the asylum.
Who ever the blonde bimbo is that Fox has on weekends, the chick is a moron on a good day.

Bloomberg didn't think it had anything to do with Islam. Then they arrest the guy..turns out he went all serious about Islam, flew his family to Pakistan and then came back to do the deed. The guy went radical, and was educated and raised in a wealthy family and spent time in Saudi Arabia. So....I guess Bloomberg's job as Mayor doesn't qualify him to run the CIA.

What a mess....

[race aficionado]

It was a close call, a very close call where we got a break.
Some ugly damage would have been caused if that bomb doesn't fizzle at the end.

Here in NYC, we all went "whew!!!!"

. . . . .

[anthonyvop]

It was a close call, a very close call where we got a break.
Some ugly damage would have been caused if that bomb doesn't fizzle at the end.

Here in NYC, we all went "whew!!!!"

. . . . .

Just saw the NYC Nanny in Chief, Bloomberg, hold a press conference on the attack. He rambled on and on about the need to take away guns.......WTF?

[Daniel]

FYI Tony, you can't defuse a bomb with a gun.

I still don't know what a Nicezan is.

I know what a Nissan is, but the man who spoke after the mayor didn't say Nissan.

[anthonyvop]

FYI Tony, you can't defuse a bomb with a gun.
Jeez!

Ok Sherlock! Answer me this. How will banning guns stop Islamo-Fascist terrorist bombing?

[Daniel]

Jeez!

Ok Sherlock! Answer me this. How will banning guns stop Islamo-Fascist terrorist bombing?
Perhaps he wanted to take this opportunity to get rid of guns that people don't need because Queen Lizzie aint invading anytime soon :)

[ioan]

To me this smells like a nice set-up to divert the attention from those daily 5000 barrels of oil flowing into the Atlantic disaster.

Well done US you managed to make your people forget what's more important by playing the security card once more. The nice citizens swallowed it all, again.
How does that saying with 'full me once... full me twice' go? :D

[anthonyvop]

Perhaps he wanted to take this opportunity to get rid of guns that people don't need because Queen Lizzie aint invading anytime soon :)

So you have no answer?

[anthonyvop]

To me this smells like a nice set-up to divert the attention from those daily 5000 barrels of oil flowing into the Atlantic disaster.

Well done US you managed to make your people forget what's more important by playing the security card once more. The nice citizens swallowed it all, again.
How does that saying with 'full me once... full me twice' go? :D

How do you get any sleep with all those "Black Helicopters" circling your home?

[ioan]

How do you get any sleep with all those "Black Helicopters" circling your home?

I live in a neutral country, there are no helicopters, neither terrorists here, neither real nor invented ones! And it feels great!

[anthonyvop]

I live in a neutral country, there are no helicopters, neither terrorists here, neither real nor invented ones! And it feels great!

And what country is that?

[ioan]

And what country is that?

Austria.

[anthonyvop]

Austria.

Yep No terrorists in Austria. The Austrians are such a peace-loving people we should all learn from them.............LOL


Austria fighting Terrorism too: 3 arrested

by Infidelesto on September 12, 2007 · Comments

Name a country in Europe that ISN’T fighting Islamic Terrorism. London, Madrid, Norway, Denmark, Germany, Turkey and now Austria…

Austria became the latest European country to grapple with the threat of terrorism as it arrested three people with links to al Qaeda who posted an online video threatening attacks against Austria and Germany.

Austrian Interior Minister Günther Platter said on Wednesday, Sept. 12, that the trio suspected of producing the video, which demanded German and Austrian soldiers leave Afghanistan, had confessed to having links to al Qaeda.

The three, however, had not built an independent terrorist cell and at no time was Austria directly in danger, he added.

“Austria was not under threat of an attack at any time,” Platter told a news conference. “We could determine that based on the actions of the three.”

How was Austria NOT under a threat of an attack? They just arrested these terrorists for no reason? Pacification and appeasement of the left is mind boggling.
http://infidelsarecool.com/2007/09/12/austria-terrorism-3-arrested/


Algiers, 14 August (AKI) - Internal conflict within the militant organisation, Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb, has reportedly slowed negotiations with Austrian authorities for the release of two hostages kidnapped in February.

Andrea Kloiber, 43, and Wolfgang Ebner, 51, (Photo) went missing while on holiday in Tunisia and the Algerian-based Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb then claimed to have kidnapped them.

According to a report in the Algerian daily, Ech-Chourouk, negotiations are continuing between the militants and Vienna for the release of the couple believed to be held in the Sahara region, near the border of Algeria, Mali and Nigeria.

The terrorists are reported to have softened their stance in seeking a ransom in exchange for their release and Austria has reportedly accepted in principle the payment of a ransom in the order of five million euros.

However, negotiations have stalled because of confusion generated by the leader of Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb in the Algerian mountains, Abdel Malik Droukedel, who is apparently seeking a political victory.

Yahya Jawadi, also called Abu Omar, is the leader of the Tareq Bin Ziyad Brigade which also operates in the Algerian Sahara, is unlikely to agree to the deal.

Since the kidnapping, this group has been forced to cease its terrorist activities in the area due to lack of funds and is seeking a ransom in order to relaunch their role in the region.

Earlier this year, Libya had agreed to act as an intermediary to help finalise the deal, using its influence with a local Tuareg tribe known as El Barabich, security officials told the media.
http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English/Security/?id=1.0.2416452605

[anthonyvop]

Perhaps he wanted to take this opportunity to get rid of guns that people don't need because Queen Lizzie aint invading anytime soon :)

Don't need? Are you serious?

[race aficionado]

I don't believe in a conspiracy.
Both the oil slick mess and the threat of terrorism suck.

On another note, the policy of "If you see something, say something" is embedded in all of us in this city and is a deterrent that we as citizens are aware of and ready to use at any moment if needed.

And we still keep along with our lives.
NYC rocks and our tourism business is still thriving for 365 days of the year.

. . . . and it's a fact that anytime the other shoe will fall - or not.

peace damit!
:s mokin:

[Tomi]

good the guy was american, maybe there wont be any invasions this time :)

[anthonyvop]

good the guy was american, maybe there wont be any invasions this time :)

Actually he is pakistani. Recently naturalized US citizen. Found to have traveld back to pakistan and received terrorist training

[Eki]

Actually he is pakistani. Recently naturalized US citizen. Found to have traveld back to pakistan and received terrorist training
You see Tomi, they can always come up with an excuse to invade another country, no matter what.

[ioan]

Yep No terrorists in Austria. The Austrians are such a peace-loving people we should all learn from them.............LOL


http://infidelsarecool.com/2007/09/12/austria-terrorism-3-arrested/


http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English/Security/?id=1.0.2416452605

Maybe there are some but they are certainly hiding very well because we never see them in the news, let alone be scared to death every time we see a slightly smoking car.

Face it, you've got a long way to go in the US before your government stops terrorizing you day and night every time they need to distract your attention.

[Daniel]

So you have no answer?
So you don't own a tofu eating goat?

[Daniel]

You see Tomi, they can always come up with an excuse to invade another country, no matter what.
Watch out Eki, Finland might be next if you don't shut up! :p

[Tomi]

Actually he is pakistani. Recently naturalized US citizen. Found to have traveld back to pakistan and received terrorist training

ahaa, he did go in somekind of Pakistani alternative to School of the Americas, but still us citizen.

[BDunnell]

Maybe there are some but they are certainly hiding very well because we never see them in the news, let alone be scared to death every time we see a slightly smoking car.

Face it, you've got a long way to go in the US before your government stops terrorizing you day and night every time they need to distract your attention.

ioan, you will notice a pattern here. Someone makes a remark even mildly critical of the USA, whereupon anthonyvop, in his typically fearless and intellectual investigative fashion, brilliantly comes up with some internet links to news stories about bad things also — shock, horror — happening in the country from which the critic comes (or, at least, relating to the nation whose flag they have under their name). To say it's predictable would be an insult to predictable people.

[anthonyvop]

You see Tomi, they can always come up with an excuse to invade another country, no matter what.

Yea!

Don't let facts get in the way of a good USA bashing.

[anthonyvop]

So you don't own a tofu eating goat?

Nope but I can provide one. You, on the other hand, still have no answer.

[Bob Riebe]

You see Tomi, they can always come up with an excuse to invade another country, no matter what.
At face value, that statement is obtuse and therefore vacuous, but let us assume you have a point, please give the base for that point.

[Eki]

At face value, that statement is obtuse and therefore vacuous, but let us assume you have a point, please give the base for that point.
Anthony had to dug up that although the suspect is a US citizen, he was born in Pakistan. It's kind of funny coming from some American whose parents weren't born in the US.

[Easy Drifter]

News Flash to Eki.
No White, Latino or Black American has ancestors that were born in the US.
They all at some time came from elsewhere.
That comment of yours is one of the most inane you have ever posted and that takes some doing.

[Eki]

News Flash to Eki.
No White, Latino or Black American has ancestors that were born in the US.
They all at some time came from elsewhere.
That comment of yours is one of the most inane you have ever posted and that takes some doing.
I was talking about recent ancestors, more specifically parents, not someone who came in the 1800s.

[chuck34]

Maybe there are some but they are certainly hiding very well because we never see them in the news, let alone be scared to death every time we see a slightly smoking car.

Face it, you've got a long way to go in the US before your government stops terrorizing you day and night every time they need to distract your attention.

So in Austria you would have just let this smoking car keep on smoking 'till it blew up? That's a good way to live.

We aren't terrorized by our government here in the US. We are asked to be vigilant for suspicious things. Being vigilant is not being terrorized.

You seem to be going on like this attempted attack wasn't something to take serious. Is that really your viewpoint? What would your stance be had this thing actually gone off? Would you be of the opinion that it really isn't a big deal then either? How about if a hundred of these car bombs started going off, is that a big deal? How about a thousand?

[Easy Drifter]

Eki your usual selective, to suit you, time frame doesn't make your comment any less inane nor in the least bit relevant.

[anthonyvop]

Anthony had to dug up that although the suspect is a US citizen, he was born in Pakistan. It's kind of funny coming from some American whose parents weren't born in the US.

Why is it funny?
I was born in the USA, I have served my country.

The Terrorist was not born in the USA. Only recently became a US Citizen, Traveled frequently to Pakistan, Met frequently with known terrorists, Obtain terrorist training.

Don't ya just hate facts?

[Eki]

Why is it funny?
I was born in the USA, I have served my country.

The Terrorist was not born in the USA. Only recently became a US Citizen, Traveled frequently to Pakistan, Met frequently with known terrorists, Obtain terrorist training.

Don't ya just hate facts?
Didn't you also rub elbows with that Cuban terrorist (what's his face)?

[Easy Drifter]

Eki you are reaching and not only getting further and further off topic but looking even sillier than usual. :p :

[harsha]

it's known that pakistan sponsors terrorism the most...then do something about that idiotic pathetic excuse of a country...

until that is taken care of , there are gonna be 9/11 , Mumbai attempts very often

address the real issue first...speaking as what the world including India , US should do

[Mark in Oshawa]

it's known that pakistan sponsors terrorism the most...then do something about that idiotic pathetic excuse of a country...

until that is taken care of , there are gonna be 9/11 , Mumbai attempts very often

address the real issue first...speaking as what the world including India , US should do

You advocating an invasion of your neighbours? That oughta be real fun...make Iraq look like a kid's food fight. Muslim radicals in a failing state with nukes.

Pakistan is the elephant in the room no one wants to deal with, but they are in a terrible fight to keep the nation from turning into a feudal Muslim crap hole that the Taliban turned Afghanistan. The state itself isn't trying to sanction or help these jerks, they just don't know poltically how to stop it in a nation full of devout Muslims who just don't grasp that these people are being led down the garden path.

This clown who tried to bomb Times Square is just another example of someone who has taken advantage of freedom, lived in the US as a landed immigrant and could have had a great life..but instead turned to radical Islam and turned his life into a joke. I just thank god his rolling bomb didn't go off.

I just love though how Americans are not allowed to defend themselves on this. Some Pakistani emigres and their offspring try to blow up half the UK, and you don't see the Finnish Anti American committee online here criticizing Blair and Brown's Labour gov't for stomping on them with both feet, but somehow Americans are TERRORIZING their citizens...

[harsha]

You advocating an invasion of your neighbours? That oughta be real fun...make Iraq look like a kid's food fight. Muslim radicals in a failing state with nukes.

Pakistan is the elephant in the room no one wants to deal with, but they are in a terrible fight to keep the nation from turning into a feudal Muslim crap hole that the Taliban turned Afghanistan. The state itself isn't trying to sanction or help these jerks, they just don't know poltically how to stop it in a nation full of devout Muslims who just don't grasp that these people are being led down the garden path.

This clown who tried to bomb Times Square is just another example of someone who has taken advantage of freedom, lived in the US as a landed immigrant and could have had a great life..but instead turned to radical Islam and turned his life into a joke. I just thank god his rolling bomb didn't go off.

I just love though how Americans are not allowed to defend themselves on this. Some Pakistani emigres and their offspring try to blow up half the UK, and you don't see the Finnish Anti American committee online here criticizing Blair and Brown's Labour gov't for stomping on them with both feet, but somehow Americans are TERRORIZING their citizens...

Pakistan government not sponsoring terrorism :?:

nah , heard of the ISI, responsible for most of the terrorist attacks against India...who provides the LeT and all safe haven to operate in Pakistan soil ? ...yeah , the pakistani government.... :rolleyes:

it's impossible for any terrorist organization to grow so much unless they have support at the government , grassroots level.....which the pakistani government and the brainwashed students of the madrasas readily provide...

as for Pakistan having nuclear weapons , that is the only reason why Pakistan has managed to survive...I might sound desperate but I'd rather risk a war instead of living in the fear of terror attacks happen everytime...

clearly , the US policy with Pakistan is not working.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Pakistan government not sponsoring terrorism :?:

nah , heard of the ISI, responsible for most of the terrorist attacks against India...who provides the LeT and all safe haven to operate in Pakistan soil ? ...yeah , the pakistani government.... :rolleyes:

it's impossible for any terrorist organization to grow so much unless they have support at the government , grassroots level.....which the pakistani government and the brainwashed students of the madrasas readily provide...

as for Pakistan having nuclear weapons , that is the only reason why Pakistan has managed to survive...I might sound desperate but I'd rather risk a war instead of living in the fear of terror attacks happen everytime...

clearly , the US policy with Pakistan is not working.

You and I can agree with the policy not working. The rest...it up to debate. I think elements of the intelligence service in Pakistan may be supporting groups that attack India. Is there a state sponsorship in an active form from their President? If so, then India should be the ones to clean up the mess. It is India that is the position. Yet India doesn't attack. Why? I know Why...because it might be a war with more pain than good.

US policy isn't working in Pakistan, Pakistan's policy on dealing with terrorism isn't working, and no one is really in control there. It is pretty close to a failed state....

[harsha]

You and I can agree with the policy not working. The rest...it up to debate. I think elements of the intelligence service in Pakistan may be supporting groups that attack India. Is there a state sponsorship in an active form from their President? If so, then India should be the ones to clean up the mess. It is India that is the position. Yet India doesn't attack. Why? I know Why...because it might be a war with more pain than good.

US policy isn't working in Pakistan, Pakistan's policy on dealing with terrorism isn't working, and no one is really in control there. It is pretty close to a failed state....

the US policy of support to the Pakistani's is the reason why we are in this problem now....the US has always supported Pakistan for some godforsaken reason by providing them arms , money among many other things...

Why is India hesitant to attack Pakistan ?...one simple reason ........ China , China is supporting Pakistan as a means of destabilizing India....

[Mark in Oshawa]

the US policy of support to the Pakistani's is the reason why we are in this problem now....the US has always supported Pakistan for some godforsaken reason by providing them arms , money among many other things...

Why is India hesitant to attack Pakistan ?...one simple reason ........ China , China is supporting Pakistan as a means of destabilizing India....

Well just wait a minute now. If the US is backing Pakistan, and has always, have you ever tried to figure out what it is in it for them? Especially since the US hasn't been anti-India?

The problem is there is a desire to try to keep Pakistan from being a totally failed state, instead of one just failing. If the US money buys them influence from really creating problems in your part of the world, then that makes sense, and to me, this is the goal. If the US can keep Pakistan from falling into hands that would make this worse, than that is likely the point.

As for the Chinese, well I have little time for their motives, their way of treating their own people or their methods. The problem is, they are the largest nation on earth, and they have money and power, so telling them what to do is a lost cause if they don't want to listen. As we all know, the Chinese do what they do for their own reasons...and if you benefit from it, it is a happy coincedance, because the government in Beijjing doesn't car what the world thinks or what happens to it unless it effects their narrow goals. I think the Chinese people are on the whole ok, but their government are a bunch of thugs and crooks....

[harsha]

off the tangent really , It's amazing as to how Pakistani's and their government criticize US but still go there begging for money etc etc etc.....

but coming back to the topic

have a look at this

http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/001784.html

USA has been supporting Pakistan ever since I&P gained independance from India....

Barack might be talking the talk , but he sure damn as hell isn't walking it....

[Mark in Oshawa]

off the tangent really , It's amazing as to how Pakistani's and their government criticize US but still go there begging for money etc etc etc.....

but coming back to the topic

have a look at this

http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/001784.html

USA has been supporting Pakistan ever since I&P gained independance from India....

Barack might be talking the talk , but he sure damn as hell isn't walking it....

Barack is a.......what.....an interesting President.

He is trapped to an extent by a bass ackwards foreign policy that still is mired in Cold War style thinking. Most Presidents go on what they are told...

AS for your link, I suspect this would be offensive, but that is ok, because Nixon was offensive to most Americans really too. He and Kissinger look like boobs...but then again, would you want to hear what any world leader may or may not think of another behind close doors? I suspect many BJP politicians when in power in India didn't exactly say nice things about people they didn't like either. It is part of the game...

As for the support of Pakistan, again, propping up a regime there that has some sort of rational control over the nation's weaponry and nukes is less distasteful than letting it fall into the hands of radical Islam. When THAT happens...well you guys will be the first to know...

[anthonyvop]

Hilarious but scary


OBAMA NATIONAL SECURITY POLICY: HOPE THEIR BOMBS DON'T WORK
May 5, 2010


It took Faisal Shahzad trying to set a car bomb in Times Square to get President Obama, Attorney General Eric Holder and Secretary of Homeland Security Janet Napolitano to finally use the word "terrorism." (And not referring to Tea Party activists!)

This is a major policy shift for a president who spent a month telling Americans not to "jump to conclusions" after Army doctor Nidal Malik Hasan reportedly jumped on a desk, shouted "Allahu Akbar!" and began shooting up Fort Hood.

After last weekend, now Obama is even threatening to pronounce it "Pack-i-stan" instead of "Pock-i-stahn." We know Obama is taking terrorism seriously because he took a break from his "Hope, Change & Chuckles" tour on the comedy circuit to denounce terrorists.

In a bit of macho posturing this week, Obama declared that -- contrary to the terrorists' wishes -- Americans "will not be terrorized, we will not cower in fear, we will not be intimidated."

First of all, having the Transportation Security Administration wanding infants, taking applesauce away from 93-year-old dementia patients, and forcing all Americans to produce their shoes, computers and containers with up to 3 ounces of liquid in Ziploc bags for special screening pretty much blows that "not intimidated" look Obama wants America to adopt.

"Intimidated"? How about "absolutely terrified"?

Second, it would be a little easier for the rest of us not to live in fear if the president's entire national security strategy didn't depend on average citizens happening to notice a smoldering SUV in Times Square or smoke coming from a fellow airline passenger's crotch.

But after the car bomber, the diaper bomber and the Fort Hood shooter, it has become increasingly clear that Obama's only national defense strategy is: Let's hope their bombs don't work!

If only Dr. Hasan's gun had jammed at Fort Hood, that could have been another huge foreign policy success for Obama.

The administration's fingers-crossed strategy is a follow-up to Obama's earlier and less successful "Let's Make Them Love Us!" plan.

In the past year, Obama has repeatedly apologized to Muslims for America's "mistakes."

He has apologized to Iran for President Eisenhower's taking out loon Mohammad Mossadegh, before Mossadegh turned a comparatively civilized country into a Third World hellhole. You know, like the Ayatollah has.

He has apologized to the entire Muslim world for the French and English colonizing them -- i.e. building them flush toilets.

He promised to shut down Guantanamo. And he ordered the mastermind of 9/11, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, to be tried in the same courthouse that tried Martha Stewart.

There was also Obama's 90-degree-bow tour of the East and Middle East. For his next visit, he plans to roll on his back and have his belly scratched like Fido.

Despite favorable reviews in The New York Times, none of this put an end to Islamic terrorism.

So now, I gather, our only strategy is to hope the terrorists' bombs keep fizzling.

There's no other line of defense. In the case of the Times Square car bomber, the Department of Homeland Security failed, the Immigration and Naturalization Service failed, the CIA failed and the TSA failed. (However, the Department of Alert T-Shirt Vendors came through with flying colors, as it always does.)

Only the New York Police Department, a New York street vendor and Shahzad's Rube Goldberg bomb (I do hope he's not offended by how Jewish that sounds -- Obama can apologize) prevented a major explosion in Times Square.

Even after the NYPD de-wired the smoking car bomb, produced enough information to identify the bomb-maker, and handed it all to federal law enforcement authorities tied up in a bow, the federal government's crack "no-fly" list failed to stop Shahzad from boarding a plane to Dubai.

To be fair, at Emirates Airlines, being on a "no-fly" list makes you eligible for pre-boarding.

Perhaps the Department of Homeland Security should consider creating a "Really, REALLY No-Fly" list.

Contrary to the wild excuses being made for the federal government on all the TV networks Monday night, it's now clear that this was not a wily plan of federal investigators to allow Shahzad to board the plane in order to nab his co-conspirators. It was a flub that nearly allowed Shahzad to escape.

Meanwhile, on that same Monday at JFK airport, approximately 100,000 passengers took off their shoes, coats, belts and sunglasses for airport security.

But the "highly trained federal force" The New York Times promised us on Oct. 28, 2001, when the paper demanded that airport security be federalized, failed to stop the only guy they needed to stop at JFK last Monday -- the one who planted a bomb in the middle of Times Square days earlier.

So why were 100,000 other passengers harassed and annoyed by the TSA?

The federal government didn't stop the diaper bomber from nearly detonating a bomb over Detroit. It didn't stop a guy on the "No Fly" list from boarding a plane and coming minutes away from getting out of the country.

If our only defense to terrorism is counting on alert civilians, how about not bothering them before they board airplanes, instead of harassing them with useless airport "security" procedures?

Both of the attempted bombers who sailed through airport security, I note, were young males of the Islamic faith. I wonder if we could develop a security plan based on that information?

And speaking of a "highly trained federal force," who's working at the INS these days? Who on earth made the decision to allow Shahzad the unparalleled privilege of becoming a U.S. citizen last year?

Our "Europeans Need Not Apply" immigration policies were absurd enough before 9/11. But after 19 foreign-born Muslims, legally admitted to the U.S., murdered 3,000 Americans in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania in a single day, couldn't we tighten up our admission policies toward people from countries still performing stonings and clitorectomies?

The NYPD can't be everyplace.
http://www.anncoulter.com/

[Mark in Oshawa]

People can say what they like about Coulter, but the fact is, when you strip away all the shots she takes at Obama (you can argue if they are cheap or not, it isn't the purpose of the argument here), but the no fly list didn't work, the people with the Department of Homeland security didn't find this guy out, and it was again, the local on the scene that prevented a tragedy.

The US Gov't for all the bureaucratic crap that was started by Bush and continues on now can't catch a cold in an epidemic at times.....this guy almost got away if not for the smart police work by NYPD...

[Daniel]

People can say what they like about Coulter, but the fact is, when you strip away all the shots she takes at Obama (you can argue if they are cheap or not, it isn't the purpose of the argument here), but the no fly list didn't work, the people with the Department of Homeland security didn't find this guy out, and it was again, the local on the scene that prevented a tragedy.

The US Gov't for all the bureaucratic crap that was started by Bush and continues on now can't catch a cold in an epidemic at times.....this guy almost got away if not for the smart police work by NYPD...
I think you've got to accept though that with the tightest regs in the world you'll never catch everyone.

I also think you've got to look at what you can do to NOT piss people off to the point where they want to set bombs off in your country.

I personally think the US would be better off if they hadn't supported Israel, the Taliban and Saddam and then not invaded Iraq and Afghanistan and just generally kept to themselves. There are some times like in the Balkans where interfering is unavoidable and I think the US have done more good than bad with their actions in the Balkans. But invading Iraq and Afghanistan was a big mistake as is supporting Israel. It gives these idiots ammunition.

[ioan]

So in Austria you would have just let this smoking car keep on smoking 'till it blew up? That's a good way to live.

News flash: the car would have never exploded anyway.

And yes we do not get hysterical about something a bit out of order like you do.


We aren't terrorized by our government here in the US. We are asked to be vigilant for suspicious things. Being vigilant is not being terrorized.

How naive you are, or should I rather say brainwashed?


You seem to be going on like this attempted attack wasn't something to take serious. Is that really your viewpoint? What would your stance be had this thing actually gone off? Would you be of the opinion that it really isn't a big deal then either? How about if a hundred of these car bombs started going off, is that a big deal? How about a thousand?

Why are you trying to build an argument on a hypothetical situation that didn't happen? I could as easily concoct some hypothetical situation to contradict yours, but then will we ever stop doing this?

[Tomi]

I But invading Iraq and Afghanistan was a big mistake as is supporting Israel. It gives these idiots ammunition.

and it create radical groups aswell.

[ioan]

People can say what they like about Coulter, but the fact is, when you strip away all the shots she takes at Obama (you can argue if they are cheap or not, it isn't the purpose of the argument here), but the no fly list didn't work, the people with the Department of Homeland security didn't find this guy out, and it was again, the local on the scene that prevented a tragedy.

The US Gov't for all the bureaucratic crap that was started by Bush and continues on now can't catch a cold in an epidemic at times.....this guy almost got away if not for the smart police work by NYPD...

It takes only one local do do their job badly in order to have the so called terrorist to leave the country, no matter how well done the rules are. Anyway I doubt this story is true and also that the guy got on the plane and then they somehow miraculously managed to stop the plane before it left the gate and so on and on...

[Mark in Oshawa]

I think you've got to accept though that with the tightest regs in the world you'll never catch everyone.

I also think you've got to look at what you can do to NOT piss people off to the point where they want to set bombs off in your country.

I personally think the US would be better off if they hadn't supported Israel, the Taliban and Saddam and then not invaded Iraq and Afghanistan and just generally kept to themselves. There are some times like in the Balkans where interfering is unavoidable and I think the US have done more good than bad with their actions in the Balkans. But invading Iraq and Afghanistan was a big mistake as is supporting Israel. It gives these idiots ammunition.

So basically...sit back...let regimes do what they want to their people, their neighbours and generally take over the Persian gulf to gain oil revenues to buy MORE arms? Oh right....Stop me..I am just being silly....

Afghanistan attacked America first really...because the Taliban basically aided and abetted Bin Laden, this was pretty much a nation state sponsored attack on the USA. Since they didn't extradite Bin Laden for trial, they basically took his side in this case. Therefore, how you can say the USA shouldn't be allowed to go there is just silly. Even EKI gets why the Yanks are there....

No...if Western society lets dictators, thugs and criminals to run nations run amok...we pretty soon get into a situation like what we had in the 30's. Everyone was scared to say no to Hitler, and he provocatively did rasher and bolder things until the war was inevitable. What we have now is the world saying "no...civilized behaviour and democracy will not just stand by while you invade Kuwait Mr. Hussein". How about the fact that the only nation outside of Turkey in the Middle East that has a true functioning democracy with minority rights until Iraq had it forced upon them was Israel? I guess those values don't matter and the US shouldn't be at least interested? How about the standard of saying "we don't care what you do to women, children or anyone else...just don't bother us" Gee..so women have rights, until it becomes bothersome to stand up for them?

Daniel, it is a very complicated world, but I can tell you the US isn't involved in that part of the world by choice. They used to stay out of the world's problem's VERY well. They ignored WW1, and they tried to stay out of WW2. They aint crazy about having their military overseas now either..but they know WHY just sticking their head in the sand wont work. Read your history books. The USA was pretty good at ignoring some really nasty things....and it didn't help them at all in the end. I guess they could have ignored the Germans and stayed out of the European war altogether, but I suspect you wouldn't be living in Wales right now unless you spoke German...

[Daniel]

So basically...sit back...let regimes do what they want to their people, their neighbours and generally take over the Persian gulf to gain oil revenues to buy MORE arms? Oh right....Stop me..I am just being silly....

Afghanistan attacked America first really...because the Taliban basically aided and abetted Bin Laden, this was pretty much a nation state sponsored attack on the USA. Since they didn't extradite Bin Laden for trial, they basically took his side in this case. Therefore, how you can say the USA shouldn't be allowed to go there is just silly. Even EKI gets why the Yanks are there....

No...if Western society lets dictators, thugs and criminals to run nations run amok...we pretty soon get into a situation like what we had in the 30's. Everyone was scared to say no to Hitler, and he provocatively did rasher and bolder things until the war was inevitable. What we have now is the world saying "no...civilized behaviour and democracy will not just stand by while you invade Kuwait Mr. Hussein". How about the fact that the only nation outside of Turkey in the Middle East that has a true functioning democracy with minority rights until Iraq had it forced upon them was Israel? I guess those values don't matter and the US shouldn't be at least interested? How about the standard of saying "we don't care what you do to women, children or anyone else...just don't bother us" Gee..so women have rights, until it becomes bothersome to stand up for them?

Daniel, it is a very complicated world, but I can tell you the US isn't involved in that part of the world by choice. They used to stay out of the world's problem's VERY well. They ignored WW1, and they tried to stay out of WW2. They aint crazy about having their military overseas now either..but they know WHY just sticking their head in the sand wont work. Read your history books. The USA was pretty good at ignoring some really nasty things....and it didn't help them at all in the end. I guess they could have ignored the Germans and stayed out of the European war altogether, but I suspect you wouldn't be living in Wales right now unless you spoke German...
I wouldn't mind speaking German. I'm fairly good with my Afrikaans if a little out of practice and Afrikaans is very close to Dutch which again is close to German :P

[Mark in Oshawa]

It takes only one local do do their job badly in order to have the so called terrorist to leave the country, no matter how well done the rules are. Anyway I doubt this story is true and also that the guy got on the plane and then they somehow miraculously managed to stop the plane before it left the gate and so on and on...

So the Billions spent on the TSA, the creation of a No-Fly List, anti terror procedures are ok..but one local can make a mistake? no...read the story. The local t-shirt vendor SAW the guy, saw the vehicle and thought something was wrong. All the law enforcement and bureaucracy designed to stop this sort of thing screwed up to the point where the guy was on THE PLANE....

All this crap was designed to keep terrorists OFF airplanes....

[race aficionado]

News flash: the car would have never exploded anyway.

And yes we do not get hysterical about something a bit out of order like you do.

How naive you are, or should I rather say brainwashed?



Yes the car didn't explode, thank goodness.

Bottom line is - no matter what you think about the terrorist attacks perpetrated in the city that I live in, NYC, the fact is that they actually happened and another one can happen again if these particular human beings with their ideological agenda can get away with it.
I am not brain washed nor naive nor hysterical if I see the value of being watchful - heck, any body should be alert and aware of their surroundings anyway.

Again, I can get into a discussion of why there are terrorists in this world, why they are sometimes rightfully pissed off and in my world, why I don't like the idea of things exploding and creating havoc.

I am glad that where some of you live that you don't have to have this issue on the back of your minds. We live a very nice life in this island but we also know that we are a target - it's a fact - and that's one of the perks when you live in what some call the capital of the world, or the capital of decadence and corrupt capitalism.

So sue me!

I'm of to Central Park to enjoy the sunset.

peace.
:s mokin:

[Malbec]

off the tangent really , It's amazing as to how Pakistani's and their government criticize US but still go there begging for money etc etc etc.....

but coming back to the topic

have a look at this

http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/001784.html

USA has been supporting Pakistan ever since I&P gained independance from India....

Barack might be talking the talk , but he sure damn as hell isn't walking it....

The US supports Pakistan because it has replaced Great Britain as the Western player in the Great Game. Pakistan is the conduit for control of Afghanistan and all the other 'stans to the north of Pakistan. The US is also neutral verging on friendly towards India, but then India also spurned US support during the Cold War preferring to stay neutral between the USSR and its former master the UK.

The problem with Pakistan is that its leadership still believes that the overall enemy is India, hence why despite all the problems in the NW provinces most of the Pakistani armed forces still face SE. This is not helped by India's rise to affluence and the fact that it materially supports Karzai whilst Pakistan quietly supports the Taliban or did until they threatened Pakistani security too.

As for China, their leadership is pretty darn smart. Pakistan is in their pocket and so is Sri Lanka now. The Singhalese defeated the Tamils due to massive Chinese cash and supplies in return for fishing rights and Colombo will now be thinking more of what Beijing thinks rather than what New Delhi thinks in the future thanks to China's support last year.

[chuck34]

News flash: the car would have never exploded anyway.

What a load of crap! How do you know that it would have never exploded anyway? What would you have done if you are a person on the street in Times Square, and someone comes running out of a smoking car? Maybe that happens everyday in Austria and nothing ever happens, so you can feel safe. But here in the US we take terrorisim seriously, even if the guy was an idiot who couldn't buid a bomb right. If a car is packed full of propane tanks, gas tanks, fireworks, and is smoking ... I don't care if you're in the US, Austria, Austrailia, or Mars, that thing could go off, and to take your "I don't care" attitude is just plain foolish.


And yes we do not get hysterical about something a bit out of order like you do.

No one is getting hysterical. We are trying to do the prudent thing and stop people from blowing others up. How exactly do you think we are being hysterical? Keeping a watchfull eye out for suspecious behaviour is the smart thing to do.


How naive you are, or should I rather say brainwashed?

How naive are you? You're the one suggesting that a smoking car packed with propane, gas, and fireworks is no big deal. Come on grow up.


Why are you trying to build an argument on a hypothetical situation that didn't happen? I could as easily concoct some hypothetical situation to contradict yours, but then will we ever stop doing this?

It's not hypothetical. It's plain dumb luck that that car didn't go off. So again what would your response have been had it blown up and killed innocent civilians in downtown New York City? Because, again, it was PLAIN DUMB LUCK that it didn't go off. What would you say then? Still wouldn't care would you? Are you really that heartless?

[ioan]

So the Billions spent on the TSA, the creation of a No-Fly List, anti terror procedures are ok..but one local can make a mistake? no...read the story. The local t-shirt vendor SAW the guy, saw the vehicle and thought something was wrong. All the law enforcement and bureaucracy designed to stop this sort of thing screwed up to the point where the guy was on THE PLANE....

All this crap was designed to keep terrorists OFF airplanes....

And the security guy wasn't a local?! I stand by my point.

[ioan]

Yes the car didn't explode, thank goodness.

Bottom line is - no matter what you think about the terrorist attacks perpetrated in the city that I live in, NYC, the fact is that they actually happened and another one can happen again if these particular human beings with their ideological agenda can get away with it.
I am not brain washed nor naive nor hysterical if I see the value of being watchful - heck, any body should be alert and aware of their surroundings anyway.

Again, I can get into a discussion of why there are terrorists in this world, why they are sometimes rightfully pissed off and in my world, why I don't like the idea of things exploding and creating havoc.

I am glad that where some of you live that you don't have to have this issue on the back of your minds. We live a very nice life in this island but we also know that we are a target - it's a fact - and that's one of the perks when you live in what some call the capital of the world, or the capital of decadence and corrupt capitalism.

So sue me!

I'm of to Central Park to enjoy the sunset.

peace.
:s mokin:

You can fall of the bed during sleep, brake your neck and die so I suggest you try not to sleep anymore or tie yourself to the bed during the sleep, but then again maybe you choke and die because of the straps that are meant to save your life! I hope you get the point about your daily life being extremely dangerous only because you think so. ;)

You guys are kept in a constant state of stress, as soon as you get a couple weeks without threats and you attention might go towards something else, like a huge oil spill in the Atlantic, all of a sudden a terrorist attempts to kill you with a bomb that wouldn't have worked, he somehow get's on a plane through the most stringent checks and gets caught in extremis because the local T-shirt vendor identified him. Yeah sure, you need to be an extremely brain washed New Yorker to swallow all this, so your governants are really doing a great job, no question about this.

You will tell me it is not true and so on and I ask you how do you want to see what it's true and what isn't when you are already dependent on this system's lies, you're so used to it that you believe all they tell you.

I might not be right and you will probably dismiss me, but all I can tell you is that from here this all looks highly suspicious.

Take care in the Central Park, who knows what might be in one of those bins along the way? Maybe a terrorist wants to interfere with your plans watching the sunset. :p

[ioan]

Daniel, it is a very complicated world, but I can tell you the US isn't involved in that part of the world by choice. They used to stay out of the world's problem's VERY well. They ignored WW1, and they tried to stay out of WW2.

That's all nice and dandy but it was true only 70 years ago, since then it's been the complete opposite happening.

[ioan]

What a load of crap! How do you know that it would have never exploded anyway?

Because the NYPD declared that, that's why!
The chemicals he used could not explode. But I suppose that you are very selective when reading news and you skip everything that doesn't talk about something that exploded.

[anthonyvop]

Because the NYPD declared that, that's why!
The chemicals he used could not explode. But I suppose that you are very selective when reading news and you skip everything that doesn't talk about something that exploded.

Funny
The NYPD seems to disagree with you!

The Times Square car bomb “would have caused a significant fireball” and casualties had it successfully detonated, Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said at a news conference Sunday.

The extent of the damage that the bomb could have caused was still unclear Sunday evening, as police were trying to figure out what the substance was that was packed inside a gun locker in the car near propane and gasoline tanks. Kelly said the substance had the look and feel of fertilizer.

Damage from a detonation likely would have come in stages.

First, there would have been casualties in the area around the car. Kelly said the explosion of the gun box, which also contained firecrackers and wires, would have sent shrapnel flying through the air.

Then, it’s possible that the burning Nissan Pathfinder might have ignited other parked cars and possibly their gas tanks, said Maria Haberfeld, a professor at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice and former lieutenant in Israel’s national police force.

The explosions would likely create panic, Haberfeld said, sending pedestrians and vehicles scrambling to get out of Times Square. People could have gotten trampled and pushed under cars.

“You’re not talking about some remote place in Montana,” Haberfeld said. “You’re talking about one of the most densely populated places in the country.”

Fear and economic damage would have followed the physical devastation wrought by the bomb.

“There is a potential for a quite sensational event,” Haberfeld said. “It’s not necessarily the severity of casualties but the effect it creates.”

And the the head of the International Association of Bomb Technicians and Investigators.


The car bomb planted in Times Square came within a "millisecond" of causing "mass casualties" with a 30-foot high fireball, an explosives expert said.

Kevin Barry, a retired NYPD bomb squad supervisor and the head of the International Association of Bomb Technicians and Investigators, painted a gruesome picture of what might have been if the bomb had gone off Saturday night.

"Several hundred" could have been killed or maimed by a fireball exploding from the Nissan Pathfinder found loaded down with firecrackers, fertilizer, gasoline, propane and alarm clocks.

The propane-fueled flames wouldn't have brought down any buildings and would have lasted only a few seconds, but with flames shooting as high as 30 feet, the toll on people nearby would have been devastating, Barry said.

The fireball would have caused horrific lung damage and fried the hair and faces of anyone within a 50-yard radius.

"It could burn the throat and then cause death. It's a difficult thing to deal with," Barry said.

"We came within a millisecond," added Barry, who put in 35 years with the NYPD, the last 20 years on the bomb squad. "Because had that detonator functioned correctly, we would have had a huge explosion."

Luckily, Barry said, the crude car bomb's homemade detonator malfunctioned.

"It may not have been sophisticated," Barry said of the bomb. "[But] it worked. It didn't function as he designed it to. The main charge did not go off. That was a critical mistake for him.

But you know better right?

[ioan]

Funny
The NYPD seems to disagree with you!

No they don't. Here's what you quoted:


The Times Square car bomb “would have caused a significant fireball” and casualties had it successfully detonated, Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said at a news conference Sunday.

Elementary English my dear, elementary English.

Here, have a good lecture, in this bit the police already knew what what chemicals he used:



Kevin Barry, a retired member of the New York Police Department's bomb squad, told the AP the design of the Times Square car bomb — which included fertilizer and an improvised fireworks-and-powder detonator — showed Shahzad had sufficient training to understand the basics of rigging an explosive device. But the bomb, which included fertilizer that was incapable of exploding, was a failure.

"He was trained, but he certainly didn't graduate at the top of the class," said Barry. "He had the design and the idea."

Officials have said the gray 1993 Nissan Pathfinder loaded with firecrackers, gasoline and propane could have created a huge fireball and killed nearby tourists and Broadway theatergoers if it had gone off successfully.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100506/ap_on_re_us/us_times_square_car_bomb_194

[anthonyvop]

No they don't. Here's what you quoted:


Elementary English my dear, elementary English.

Here, have a good lecture, in this bit the police already knew what what chemicals he used:



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100506/ap_on_re_us/us_times_square_car_bomb_194

So? The fact is it could have blown up and caused major damage......

[ioan]

So? The fact is it could have blown up and caused major damage......

No the fact is that the chemicals he used were not going to blow up as those were not suited for producing an explosion. At this point I suggest an English reading course.

[anthonyvop]

No the fact is that the chemicals he used were not going to blow up as those were not suited for producing an explosion. At this point I suggest an English reading course.

The only reason it didn't explode was because of a faulty detonator.

[Mark in Oshawa]

[/QUOTE]We came within a millisecond," added Barry, who put in 35 years with the NYPD, the last 20 years on the bomb squad. "Because had that detonator functioned correctly, we would have had a huge explosion."

Luckily, Barry said, the crude car bomb's homemade detonator malfunctioned.

"It may not have been sophisticated," Barry said of the bomb. "[But] it worked. It didn't function as he designed it to. The main charge did not go off. That was a critical mistake for him.[/QUOTE]

Gee Ioan, what part of faulty detonator didn't you understand? The intent was there...he wanted to kill some infidels but didn't strap on the explosives himself like many suicide bombers do.

This is a war against civilized society as practiced in the western world. I have been saying this for all the time I have been posting on Chit Chat. It is just a few that refuse to see this for what it is...

[BDunnell]

For a country that genuinely views itself as being 'at war' against terrorism, it strikes me the US seems extremely unwilling to accept the notion of there being civilian casualties on its own soil. I thought that this was deemed a part of war?

It is simply a fact that some people will be killed and injured as a result of terrorist acts, just as it's the case that people, including civilians, will be killed and injured in war. This is surely even more important to consider when one realises how the boundaries between being 'at war' and being the target of terrorist attacks has been blurred, at least in the public consciousness. Thankfully, it is possible to limit the damage wrought by terrorism to some extent, but it will never be possible to remove any potential risk. There is certainly a paranoia in some quarters when it comes to taking measures to combat terrorism, and it should not be allowed to influence policy unduly. Extreme measures are not called for, because a threat of some kind will always remain. It is simply not possible to reduce the risk to nothing.

[Mark in Oshawa]

For a country that genuinely views itself as being 'at war' against terrorism, it strikes me the US seems extremely unwilling to accept the notion of there being civilian casualties on its own soil. I thought that this was deemed a part of war?

It is simply a fact that some people will be killed and injured as a result of terrorist acts, just as it's the case that people, including civilians, will be killed and injured in war. This is surely even more important to consider when one realises how the boundaries between being 'at war' and being the target of terrorist attacks has been blurred, at least in the public consciousness. Thankfully, it is possible to limit the damage wrought by terrorism to some extent, but it will never be possible to remove any potential risk. There is certainly a paranoia in some quarters when it comes to taking measures to combat terrorism, and it should not be allowed to influence policy unduly. Extreme measures are not called for, because a threat of some kind will always remain. It is simply not possible to reduce the risk to nothing.

Well unlike the UK Ben, the US hasn't seen true terrorist acts on their own soil until this fight with Muslim radicals.....

It takes some getting used to, but like the mother country of Britain, Americans are made of sterner stuff than people think....

[airshifter]

For a country that genuinely views itself as being 'at war' against terrorism, it strikes me the US seems extremely unwilling to accept the notion of there being civilian casualties on its own soil. I thought that this was deemed a part of war?


It seems the nations in Europe are much more familiar with allowing gross amounts of casualties, military or civilian, on their own soil. I would hope that this fact has nothing to do with them being more "willing" to do so.




It is simply not possible to reduce the risk to nothing.

There will always be some risk, but the closer to "nothing" that risk is, the better.

[BDunnell]

Well unlike the UK Ben, the US hasn't seen true terrorist acts on their own soil until this fight with Muslim radicals.....

I think this is key to the different attitudes.



It takes some getting used to, but like the mother country of Britain, Americans are made of sterner stuff than people think....

But you must admit that the reaction is still very different.

[BDunnell]

It seems the nations in Europe are much more familiar with allowing gross amounts of casualties, military or civilian, on their own soil. I would hope that this fact has nothing to do with them being more "willing" to do so.

I think it comes down to different personal attitudes. Certainly, one thing it has nothing to do with is a lack of value being attached to human life.



There will always be some risk, but the closer to "nothing" that risk is, the better.

But that shouldn't mean that any measures are acceptable. I mean, if I wanted to reduce the risks to myself to zero, I wouldn't ever leave the house, and even then I am placing myself at some risk.

[harsha]

This is a war against civilized society as practiced in the western world. I have been saying this for all the time I have been posting on Chit Chat. It is just a few that refuse to see this for what it is...[/QUOTE]

what's your definition of civilized society :?:

[Mark in Oshawa]

I think this is key to the different attitudes.



But you must admit that the reaction is still very different.

Americans are more demonstrative than the British "stiff upper lip". Like Britain, we Canadians usually hold back our patriotism until it bursts out suddenly. With the USA, their hearts are on their sleeves in times of great joy or sorrow, and that is just the national personality. I wouldn't read any weakness into it though.

I was in a factory picking up my daily shipment in Lockport NY on 9/11. Many of the workers there are reservists in the Air National Guard in nearby Niagara Falls NY. What I saw made me realize how THEY felt about their nation under attack and it was quite different in how I saw them before. You could tell those guys had no conpuncitions about being in uniform the next day to serve their nation. There was no apathy or desire to rationalize it away. Talking to them, I realized that these guys were no afraid of what could be happening....and if that is typical of the culture, then one cannot say they are panicking when there is domestic attacks on their soil.

[Mark in Oshawa]

This is a war against civilized society as practiced in the western world. I have been saying this for all the time I have been posting on Chit Chat. It is just a few that refuse to see this for what it is...

what's your definition of civilized society :?: [/QUOTE]

Civilized society? India has it for the most part. The rule of law, people helping decide the future based on negotiations, elections and the ability to get people to follow their philosophy based on its merits, not at the point of a gun or with the threat of being shunned by the religion.

Classic libreal values (not progressive libreal values ) are the touchstones of the modern "western" state. A rigourous but peaceful opposition in the legislature. Elections, human rights, equal rights for men and women, erasing the class distinctions as much as possible (something I know India has struggled with at times); and the freedom to practice the religion of their choice. Most "civilized" nations have all these tenets.

There isn't a hard and fast rule for it, and many socieites such as India's are civillized, but it isn't the same as those nations in Western Europe, the new nations of Eastern Europe, or North America or the Antipodal parts of the Commonwealth. The point is, none of these nations have people ruling them who feel that everyone else in the world is wrong, and it is ok to kill "infidels" who don't follow THEIR personal script.

I think if you just list places where you know any sane, free person WANTS to live, that pretty much defines it doesn't it?

I don't see people leaving Nebraska or Turku or Barcelona or even Mumbai signing up to live in Afghanistan, Iran or Syria for the rest of their lives unless they have some ulterior motive...But a lot of people have left these regimes to get away from it. There is a sizable number of people who fled Hussein's Iraq and live in Dearborn Michigan now and when Bush invaded, they were cheering him on loudly....and unless someone has lived under a leader like Hussein, one really cannot really truly appreciate being in a free country...

[Eki]

I don't see people leaving Nebraska or Turku or Barcelona or even Mumbai signing up to live in Afghanistan, Iran or Syria for the rest of their lives unless they have some ulterior motive...But a lot of people have left these regimes to get away from it. There is a sizable number of people who fled Hussein's Iraq and live in Dearborn Michigan now and when Bush invaded, they were cheering him on loudly....and unless someone has lived under a leader like Hussein, one really cannot really truly appreciate being in a free country...
But some are apparently going back. The Finnish embassy in Ethiopia recently reported that Ethiopian troops in Somalia had captured a Somali Islamist speaking fluent Finnish.

[Easy Drifter]

Only Eki could equate a terrorist to the average person!

[ioan]

We came within a millisecond," added Barry, who put in 35 years with the NYPD, the last 20 years on the bomb squad. "Because had that detonator functioned correctly, we would have had a huge explosion."

Luckily, Barry said, the crude car bomb's homemade detonator malfunctioned.

"It may not have been sophisticated," Barry said of the bomb. "[But] it worked. It didn't function as he designed it to. The main charge did not go off. That was a critical mistake for him.

Gee Ioan, what part of faulty detonator didn't you understand? The intent was there...he wanted to kill some infidels but didn't strap on the explosives himself like many suicide bombers do.

This is a war against civilized society as practiced in the western world. I have been saying this for all the time I have been posting on Chit Chat. It is just a few that refuse to see this for what it is...

I see that each is posting an article that suits his POV.
The article I posted states that the chemicals were not explosive, so what part of it you didn't understand?!

And taking it even further how is that the thing was smoking if the detonator didn't work properly? You know there is a saying about no smoke without fire.

We could continue this game of posting bits and pieces that suit our POV without trying to make use of logic, however I got tired of battling the windmills so I'll say it again one last time: IMO the US governants are playing the usual psychological game with you guys and you are swallowing it all and in the process of getting hysterical over a bomb than never was to explode you are forgetting about more important things that are going wrong in your country. In the end each believes what he wants to believe.

PS: The 'millisecond' part just goes to show that either the guy is a tool or he is exaggerating on purpose to make things sound even scarier.

[BDunnell]

I see that each is posting an article that suits his POV.
The article I posted states that the chemicals were not explosive, so what part of it you didn't understand?!

And taking it even further how is that the thing was smoking if the detonator didn't work properly? You know there is a saying about no smoke without fire.

We could continue this game of posting bits and pieces that suit our POV without trying to make use of logic, however I got tired of battling the windmills so I'll say it again one last time: IMO the US governants are playing the usual psychological game with you guys and you are swallowing it all and in the process of getting hysterical over a bomb than never was to explode you are forgetting about more important things that are going wrong in your country. In the end each believes what he wants to believe.

PS: The 'millisecond' part just goes to show that either the guy is a tool or he is exaggerating on purpose to make things sound even scarier.

ioan, I very much agree with the view that the US government, and many of its citizens, have become obsessed with an unpleasant and unnecessary security paranoia. However, I really do not find your method of furthering the argument sensible. How can you say that the bomb in question was never going to explode? How do you know that 'the guy' is only either 'a tool' or 'exaggerating on purpose'? Are you privy to his innermost thoughts? Again, you seem to be taking your alleged knowledge of the situation further than it can really go.

[Eki]

Only Eki could equate a terrorist to the average person!
Only Easy D could equate an average person in Canada to an average person in Somalia. Or maybe he just prefers pirates and tribal war lords over islamists.

[Bob Riebe]

IMO the US governants are playing the usual psychological game with you guys and you are swallowing it all and in the process of getting hysterical over a bomb than never was to explode you are forgetting about more important things that are going wrong in your country. In the end each believes what he wants to believe.

PS: The 'millisecond' part just goes to show that either the guy is a tool or he is exaggerating on purpose to make things sound even scarier.
Yes that is your opinion and you have stated as much but on what facts are you decrying others who say otherwise?

You have given none so far.

[BDunnell]

Yes that is your opinion and you have stated as much but on what facts are you decrying other who say otherwise?

You have given none so far.

On this, I agree with you.

[Easy Drifter]

Eki you know very well my attitude towards the warlords and pirates as opposed to your semi support of them.
I wish the Royal Navy would deal with pirates the way they used to. Dangling from the yardarm.

[dunes]

I'll say it again one last time: IMO the US governants are playing the usual psychological game with you guys and you are swallowing it all and in the process of getting hysterical over a bomb than never was to explode you are forgetting about more important things that are going wrong in your country.

PS: The 'millisecond' part just goes to show that either the guy is a tool or he is exaggerating on purpose to make things sound even scarier.


In the US we have something apparently you haven't heard before. Its called sesationism.Its from our media not our goverments. To think our goverment is triing to scare us is totally nuts. They know we aren't scared of them,Its our media loking for angles to enlongate a story to sell time on the stage of life. They often sidetrack the topic or add some type of annonomous statement to keep the stories on the front pages.If you even for a second think we're scared come to NY and walk the streets. You'll see noone there is even a little bit worried about this OLD NEWS.

[airshifter]

I think it comes down to different personal attitudes. Certainly, one thing it has nothing to do with is a lack of value being attached to human life.


Agreed. But since all people should value human life, protecting human life should always be considered acceptable.



But that shouldn't mean that any measures are acceptable. I mean, if I wanted to reduce the risks to myself to zero, I wouldn't ever leave the house, and even then I am placing myself at some risk.

So what measures used in this example weren't acceptable? People noticed the vehicle and reported it. If the guy had half a brain many of those people might have died when the vehicle exploded. But in either case the people reporting it did the right thing. I don't see how this equates to the supposed paranoia that we keep hearing from other countries.

To be honest, I've never seen any real paranoia post 9/11 in the US. Sure there are the radicals that spout how we should rid the world of Muslims and terrorism in general, but in the everyday world I don't see people acting any more differently than they did before the attacks.

[dunes]

But that shouldn't mean that any measures are acceptable. I mean, if I wanted to reduce the risks to myself to zero, I wouldn't ever leave the house, and even then I am placing myself at some risk.

No. more at risk by not venturing out and being observant and vigilant you are creasting a danger zone for those around you as well as yourself.Besides there are more common dangers inside the house than outside of it.Boredom becomes complacincy and leads to danger.Theres such a thing as feeling too safe and being overconfident in your surroundings.

[chuck34]

Because the NYPD declared that, that's why!
The chemicals he used could not explode. But I suppose that you are very selective when reading news and you skip everything that doesn't talk about something that exploded.

You are right, the fertalizer he used would not have exploded. However, are you now trying to tell me that gas cans and propane tanks will not explode? Sure since he didn't use the right fertalizer it wouldn't have been as big an explosion as it could have been. But don't fool yourself, gas and propane can make a pretty big fireball on their own. If you don't believe me, look up Mythbusters on YouTube sometime.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Ioan thinks this wasn't a bomb. I vote someone park a vehicle with these ingredients out in front of his house and let it rip.....He can apologize from the rubble....

[Bob Riebe]

You are right, the fertalizer he used would not have exploded. However, are you now trying to tell me that gas cans and propane tanks will not explode? Sure since he didn't use the right fertalizer it wouldn't have been as big an explosion as it could have been. But don't fool yourself, gas and propane can make a pretty big fireball on their own. If you don't believe me, look up Mythbusters on YouTube sometime.

Let's have one of those who think the fertilizer was harmless stand next to a campfire while another takes a sand-shovel full of dust from these harmless fertilizer bags and throws it into the fire with a vertical fall.
As they carry the denier to the hospital with third degree burns, I wonder how hard he will protest that, that fertilizer is harmless.

You know grain dust is harmless, of course tell that , to some one who had a loved one killed in a grain elevator explosion.

Now if one would think beyond the press who print what they want without regard to chemistry or physics.
The dust created by the exploding tank could have acted in a similar manner to dust that destroys grain elevators and storage tanks.

I have taken handfuls of lawn fertilizer from bottom of emptied bags and thrown it into burning pits- the result can be impressive.
Had the detonator functioned as planned, to say the result would not have caused injury or death is a fools folly.

I have seen piles of iron dust by grinding wheels catch fire, and burn quickly, the list of items that can ignite to a degree to cause serious harm, it near endless.

[race_director]

whats the use of spending so much money and resources on intel gathering. and US goverment really made a fool of itself when it gave a very serious warning to its citizens in INDIA on 2nd or 3rd may of an imminent terror strike in India.

Guess what the terrorist showed up in NY on the same night . US has to really think about its policy towards pakistan. Pakistan is going through a very bad phase where the taliban has taken over half of the country .

lets pray the nuclear facilities are safe there .

[chuck34]

Let's have one of those who think the fertilizer was harmless stand next to a campfire while another takes a sand-shovel full of dust from these harmless fertilizer bags and throws it into the fire with a vertical fall.
As they carry the denier to the hospital with third degree burns, I wonder how hard he will protest that, that fertilizer is harmless.

You know grain dust is harmless, of course tell that , to some one who had a loved one killed in a grain elevator explosion.

Now if one would think beyond the press who print what they want without regard to chemistry or physics.
The dust created by the exploding tank could have acted in a similar manner to dust that destroys grain elevators and storage tanks.

I have taken handfuls of lawn fertilizer from bottom of emptied bags and thrown it into burning pits- the result can be impressive.
Had the detonator functioned as planned, to say the result would not have caused injury or death is a fools folly.

I have seen piles of iron dust by grinding wheels catch fire, and burn quickly, the list of items that can ignite to a degree to cause serious harm, it near endless.

Yes, dust is a pretty impressive exposive in it's own right. I think the point is that this fertilizer is not of the same type as the Oklahoma City main explosive element. I must confess, I have no idea about the explosive power of different fertilizers other than to know that one was used in OKC.

But again, my main point (the one that Ioan seams to be trying to refute) is that even though the "bomb" didn't go off, it was VERY dangerous, and we were VERY lucky it didn't go off. Anyone that is trying to deny the explosive power of gasoline and propane must have another agenda in mind. On that point I think that most of us are in agreement.

[Mark in Oshawa]

whats the use of spending so much money and resources on intel gathering. and US goverment really made a fool of itself when it gave a very serious warning to its citizens in INDIA on 2nd or 3rd may of an imminent terror strike in India.

Guess what the terrorist showed up in NY on the same night . US has to really think about its policy towards pakistan. Pakistan is going through a very bad phase where the taliban has taken over half of the country .

lets pray the nuclear facilities are safe there .

In a free society, someone below the radar or not having a record can slip in or do something like any other terrorist and come out of nowhwere.

It is the reality that the USA and other democracies in the west face. There is no "big brother" who can watch everyone because it isn't legal. So they spend billions trying to figure out they can without breaking the law. Bin Laden and the rest of the Muslim nut jobs hate the freedom of the west, but they will use it to their advantage...

[donKey jote]

There is no "big brother" who can watch everyone because it isn't legal.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk/6108496.stm :laugh:

[Mark in Oshawa]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk/6108496.stm :laugh:

Those cameras are not everywhere, and the ACLU in the US would never let a lot of what is seen in those cameras to be used as evidence if they had their way. Maybe in the UK they are part of the landscape, but people in the United States have a little more of a civil libertarian view of how CCTV is used...

Zstar Electronic Co.Ltd, Sell fire cards for DS/NDSL/NDSi, also have Wii, DSiLL, NDSi, NDSL, PSP2000, PSP3000, PS2, PS3, PSP go, PSP, Xbox360 accessories, all kinds of phones are available
www.zstar.hk (http://www.zstar.hk)
www.tigersupermall.com (http://www.tigersupermall.com)

[race_director]

In a free society, someone below the radar or not having a record can slip in or do something like any other terrorist and come out of nowhwere.

It is the reality that the USA and other democracies in the west face. There is no "big brother" who can watch everyone because it isn't legal. So they spend billions trying to figure out they can without breaking the law. Bin Laden and the rest of the Muslim nut jobs hate the freedom of the west, but they will use it to their advantage...


i feel in my personal opinion . West intel gathering is flawed at many levels. there has been many instances of its agents getting them self sucked into terror group behind which they are.


i am neither a christian nor a muslim. i feel the day kashmir/palestine issue is solved we can see a 90% lesser in the world. which i dont think will happen in my life time atleast. ( i still give my self arnd 45-50 yrs more . if i stop the kool aid , the smoke. :) ) . and also Western countries should stop bothering into other countries problem.

If people in afghanistan want to fight between them self and kill one another , let them do it among them self . why should west countries try to do good in some other country and itself get suffered. and these fanatics show up at our door.

[harsha]

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64655Y20100507

the irony :/