miller on speed report: IRL to dump ISC tracks

[SarahFan]

thats todays scuttlebutt...

if that happens there is no oval before Indy....

Vegas and/or Fontana would work....but Fontana would be too close to LB...which IMO leaves Vegas, but Vegas needs serious serious promotion

does Louden have weather issues the last week of april/first week of may?

[Mark in Oshawa]

I don't recall Miller saying dumping the ISC tracks..

[SarahFan]

I don't recall Miller saying dumping the ISC tracks..

in all fairness mark...I read it on another forum, thats why I classified it as scuttlebutt....

one of the reasons i ran with it was Randys recent comments about tracks needing to step up there promotion, clearly Kansas fits in that category

[SarahFan]

in rereading the thread as it progresses others have confirmed it was indeed said....

and that Cavin is reporting louden, vegas, milwaukee and nashville are all possibilities for 2011

[MDS]

Yeah, there are some pretty big rumors going on about next year's season, the word "Realignment" has been used a couple of times.

Edmonton is expected to keep its place on the schedule, although Northlands might be out and replaced with Green-Savoe, or Possibly Mi-Jack. There is some jockeying at the front of the schedule Sao Paulo might want to move back a week, as might St. Pete, but then you start getting too many races in a row, so who knows.

So if we don't have any ISC tracks, Milwaukee is a self-promote then here's what we'll probably be looking at:

March 13 Streets of Sao Paulo *
March 27 Streets of St. Petersburg *
April 10 Barber Motorsport Park *
April 17 Streets of Long Beach *
April 24 Nashville Superspeedway
May 1 Reliant Stadium Houston Texas
May 29 Indy 500
June 6 Milwuakee Mile
June 12 Texas Motor Speedway
June 19 Iowa Speedway *
July 3 Mid-Ohio
July 17 Streets of Toronto
July 24 Edmonton City Center Airport
Aug 7 New Hampshire International Speedway
Aug 14 Twin Ring Motegi
Aug. 27 Infineon Raceway *
Sept. 4 Streets of Baltimore
Sept. 11 Las Vegas Motor Speedway (Evening)



*Have existing contract for 2011

[SarahFan]

while I hope to see it happen...

the addition of 4 ovals that have all been on the schedule at one time or another seems a tall order

[Chamoo]

while I hope to see it happen...

the addition of 4 ovals that have all been on the schedule at one time or another seems a tall order

Asides from Nashville, I would love to see the other three on the schedule.

[SarahFan]

Asides from Nashville, I would love to see the other three on the schedule.

Louden and Vegas definitely expressed interest last year.... and scuttlebutt is Milwaukee will be a self promote....nashville seems more wishful thinking than anything else at this point

[SoCalPVguy]

Are there any other ovals besides ISC tracks that can be used ? I agree ISC is no "friend" to IRL, but a balanced series needs large ovals, small ovals, road courses and street races for diversity.

[anthonyvop]

thats todays scuttlebutt...

if that happens there is no oval before Indy....

Vegas and/or Fontana would work.... Fontana is a ISC track

[garyshell]

I don't recall Miller saying dumping the ISC tracks..


He did say something to that effect on Speed Reportlast night.
Gary

[Lousada]

Yeah, there are some pretty big rumors going on about next year's season, the word "Realignment" has been used a couple of times.


Dropping four tracks at once would sure be a realignment :eek:



So if we don't have any ISC tracks, Milwaukee is a self-promote then here's what we'll probably be looking at:


I think you are forgetting Kentucky? Wasn't that recently bought by SMI?

[anthonyvop]

Miller said he didn't expect the IRL to return to Kansas(With good reason) and that they need to renegotiate the contracts with the other ISC tracks.

[Mark in Oshawa]

He did say something to that effect on Speed Reportlast night.
Gary

I must have missed it. I don't think there is an ISC track yet that has given the old IRL or this new incarnation a lot of push or treated them as an equal partner in any way, shape of form. ISC's ownership is tainted with NASCAR, so anything ISC did to promote or help the IRL would be in a sense, almost working against NASCAR. It isn't that simple or trite, but in the end, that is about the size of it...

[MDS]

I think you are forgetting Kentucky? Wasn't that recently bought by SMI?

Yeah, you're right, but I'm hearing Baltimore is after their Labor Day slot.

I think they're looking at either Nashville or Kentucky to fill that late April/early May slot that Kansas has.

[Scotty G.]

Dump Kansas, Homestead, Sears Point and Edmonton (big time money loser) and add Loudon, Las Vegas, Baltimore, Milwaukee, Phoenix and Elkhart Lake. Co-promote the last 3 (for the good of the sport).

20 race schedule (which is what the teams want).

Phoenix starts the season. Vegas ends it.

10 ovals and 10 others.

[ICWS]

If you're avoiding ISC tracks, then you can't go to California and Michigan. You would also be upsetting Roger Penske, who's family has a part in ISC's company.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Dump Kansas, Homestead, Sears Point and Edmonton (big time money loser) and add Loudon, Las Vegas, Baltimore, Milwaukee, Phoenix and Elkhart Lake. Co-promote the last 3 (for the good of the sport).

20 race schedule (which is what the teams want).

Phoenix starts the season. Vegas ends it.

10 ovals and 10 others.

Edmonton a money loser? Maybe...but they draw a huge crowd out there..and it is an airport race, which tends to have a little more passing....so I think working with the local's to make sure the deal works for everyone might still be a better plan...

[BobbyC]

The problem is if you dump ISC tracks, you affect other issues (re: the 400).

Kansas this year was an odd-man rush thanks to television rulings. But a truck-IRL doubleheader would be a better idea on the same day. And Chicago is a top television market.

Las Vegas, of course, we all know is everyone's want. Two races in Vegas in back to back weeks, one on the 2.2 mile road course in the complex and one on the speedway at night would be sense, especially if Bruton wants to expand that 2.2 mile road course used for driving schools for spectator racing, especially if he wants F1 in the US at Vegas, he could share the pits and stand with the Strip.

[SUBARUTEAM]

ending the season at homestead was the biggest mistake they made

[nigelred5]

Where cough.. Champcar... cough have I heard this all before? Who's dumping who? Once Champcar was out of the way, ISC only had to honor the existing contracts at tracks to pad their schedule a bit. Now that it seems likely Kansas will get it's second Nascar date, Why would they need the IRL? I'd gladly replace Kansas with Loudon or Vegas. NASCAR needs to dump that sorry excuse for a labor day race in Fontana ad restore the southern 500, then let the IRL run a few weeks later after it cools off a little.

If Penske really had much influence at ISC, they would still be running at Michigan. There really hasn't been a decent oval race or crowd at any of the ISC tracks since he sold out to the Frances.

[NickFalzone]

The IRL has steadily been dropping tracks that get embarrassing attendance. One could argue that these tracks have been dropping the IRL for the same reason, though I've heard it's mostly been the IRL making the call. Nashville, Michigan, Kansas, Richmond, all tracks that have had good to terrible racing, and appear to have had consistently poor attendance in recent years. I do wonder if the IRL wants to leave these tracks because they feel like the local promoters are doing a bad job of getting fans in seats. It would appear that the IRL is also leaning more heavily towards a CART style schedule of 2/3rds street and roads, and 1/3 ovals. I don't mind this shift considering how dull the racing has been on ovals lately.

[NickFalzone]

ending the season at homestead was the biggest mistake they made

I can't remember a single exciting race at Homestead. The only reason they seem to go there is because it's a great locale for business-to-business deals and a place that the drivers and crews enjoy.

[Easy Drifter]

I wouldn't be too surprised to see Toronto go in 2 or 3 years.
Not because of the racing or IC or the City but the current organizers.
They are not and have not promoted the race well. Toronto has major events going on all summer and you have to compete for the dollar.
They annoyed the local volunteer workers big time last year and there is no sign of improvement this year.
The draconian rules for spectators upset many people last year who have said they will not go back. Many of these are spectators who also go to races at Mosport not just casual fans. The same draconian rules are in effect this year.
Suddenly opening the most pricey grandstands to non ticket holders did not go over with those who paid for seats. Maybe they got a refund but I doubt it.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Where cough.. Champcar... cough have I heard this all before? Who's dumping who? Once Champcar was out of the way, ISC only had to honor the existing contracts at tracks to pad their schedule a bit. Now that it seems likely Kansas will get it's second Nascar date, Why would they need the IRL? I'd gladly replace Kansas with Loudon or Vegas. NASCAR needs to dump that sorry excuse for a labor day race in Fontana ad restore the southern 500, then let the IRL run a few weeks later after it cools off a little.

If Penske really had much influence at ISC, they would still be running at Michigan. There really hasn't been a decent oval race or crowd at any of the ISC tracks since he sold out to the Frances.

Nige...NASCAR dumped Labor day at Fontana. They run at Atlanta that weekend now...Fontana is pushed back into later in the chase....

And why should the ISC want another IRL Date? Well Texas has NASCAR two weekends a year and yet Eddie Gossage promotes and takes the Indycar series and draws a nice crowd for it....so money might be a motivater if ISC wasn't basically a division of NASCAR or vice versa.

[MDS]

Maybe its time to start looking at New Jersey Motorsport Park as a replacement for Watkins Glen. Yes it was built as a club track, but the reviews I've heard on it are all good. "The Thunderbolt" track may need to be widened a bit and the safety equipment would have to be brought up to FIA standards, but it could be a fast, fun course in a market that hasn't been exploited by NASCAR yet.

[Jag_Warrior]

Just my opinion, but the IRL appears to be following the CCWS model of traveling from city to city, like a band of gypsies and hoping to draw a crowd. When the crowd doesn't show up in big enough numbers, they move on to the next city. Here's a crazy idea: pick a city in a metro area and then WORK to build a following in that area. If the track/promoter won't do enough to promote, the IRL is going to have to step up. Andrew Craig pushed the notion that CART wasn't going to promote its races if the promoter wouldn't. He said that during one of his (typically) aloof speeches when asked about attendance at Michigan.

I never went, but I thought that the attendance at Richmond wasn't that bad. And if the racing was bad, was that the fault of the track or the car formula? What did the IRL do to reach out to fans in and around Richmond? Charlotte? Atlanta? It's like watching General Sherman in reverse, they're getting run out of the South.

Another thing: the IRL shouldn't do what CART did and go out of its way to make an enemy of ISC, while thinking that SMI will prop it up. SMI is no "friend" of the IRL. Smith went on a blistering tirade when SMI's earnings fell off several years ago, blaming IRL races for the shortfall. If the IRL has an attendance problem, track owners aren't going to fall for the notion that it's always the track's fault... and jump to add an IRL race to their schedule. The ratings confirm that the attendance problem is tied to a popularity problem. And if I was a track owner, I'd want to know what the IRL was going to do to fix that before I signed any sort of deal... unless the deal put the majority of the financial risk in the IRL's camp (*cough cough* track rental).

[NaBUru38]

If anything, Las Vegas should only replace another cookie-cutter. No Atlanta, no Charlotte, no more cookie-cutters!


ending the season at homestead was the biggest mistake they made
They wanted hot weather. There aren't many choices.


Yeah, you're right, but I'm hearing Baltimore is after their Labor Day slot.
Actually, Baltimore bosses want early August (link (http://charmcitycurrent.com/brd/2010/04/12/the-2nd-alms-race-of-the-season-is-this-saturday-at-the-toyota-grand-prix-of-long-beach/)).

[Dr. Krogshöj]

Dump Kansas, Homestead, Sears Point and Edmonton (big time money loser) and add Loudon, Las Vegas, Baltimore, Milwaukee, Phoenix and Elkhart Lake. Co-promote the last 3 (for the good of the sport).

20 race schedule (which is what the teams want).

Phoenix starts the season. Vegas ends it.

10 ovals and 10 others.

Where do I sign?

Although I don't get why Edmonton is a big time money loser? They pay their annual sanctioning fee to the series, I presume. The rest is not the league's business.

[nigelred5]

So the latest is Baltimore may be the first weekend in August? Fits in well with my annual vacation plans, but dear God wear a bathing suit, cause it will be a sauna.

http://baltimore.bizjournals.com/baltimore/stories/2010/05/03/daily8.html#ixzz0n0c1Zkmd

[Dr. Krogshöj]

So the latest is Baltimore may be the first weekend in August? Fits in well with my annual vacation plans, but dear God wear a bathing suit, cause it will be a sauna.

http://baltimore.bizjournals.com/baltimore/stories/2010/05/03/daily8.html#ixzz0n0c1Zkmd

So the City of Baltimore doesn't only reap the economic impact and publicity of the event, but also gets its roads improved by state and federal money, receives an annual fee and a share of the revenue? This deal is a lot sweeter than the one San Jose got from Champ Car for instance - they even had to subsidize their event. For Baltimore, it seems like a no-brainer, NIMBY's aside. On the other hand, I don't see how the business plan of Baltimore Racing Development will work. They'll have to pay fees to the IRL and the City, pay for the construction costs etc.

[Scotty G.]

1. Just my opinion, but the IRL appears to be following the CCWS model of traveling from city to city, like a band of gypsies and hoping to draw a crowd. When the crowd doesn't show up in big enough numbers, they move on to the next city.


2. I never went, but I thought that the attendance at Richmond wasn't that bad.


1. Yep. Its always "everybody" else's fault, for why nobody gives a damn about Indy Car Racing. Blame the promoter. Blame the fans. Blame NASCAR. Blame the TV broadcast. Blame the day its run on. Blame the weather.

Guess what? People don't watch Indy Car or didn't watch Champ Car and would have eventually gone away from CART in the mid 90's, because the product sucks. The racing is generally boring, stale and predictable at ALL places and the driver lineup is a joke, that couldn't be sold even in the best of times.

The reason why people aren't showing up, have to do with the pile of poo they are being fed. Simple as that.

2. Richmond's worst crowds, were still better then St. Pete or Barber got. Richmond had consistant 40,000 to 50,000 crowds show up. But since Angstadt and the idiots running the sport, thought it didn't look as good on TV (since it was being held at a 100,000 seat facility), it had to go.

Plus they couldn't fleece the people of Baltimore for a few years, if Richmond was on the schedule.

So buh-bye real race track and hello rinky-dink street festival course. Just another mark against real racing and another move away from your heritage and history of open wheel racing.

[Easy Drifter]

Another cheerful post by that breath of fresh air and lightness Scotty G.
It is so pleasant to read his always optimistic and uplifting posts. :down:

[garyshell]

The reason why people aren't showing up, have to do with the pile of poo they are being fed. Simple as that.

Not unlike the pile of poo foisted off by a tiresome, bitter poster here on this forum. My unanswered question remains, if this is so horrible for you why do you continue to torture yourself (and us in the process)?

I anxiously await your reply, but anticipate a typical "I'm just the messenger" or "you can't take the truth" reply.

Gary

[Mark in Oshawa]

1. Yep. Its always "everybody" else's fault, for why nobody gives a damn about Indy Car Racing. Blame the promoter. Blame the fans. Blame NASCAR. Blame the TV broadcast. Blame the day its run on. Blame the weather.

Guess what? People don't watch Indy Car or didn't watch Champ Car and would have eventually gone away from CART in the mid 90's, because the product sucks. The racing is generally boring, stale and predictable at ALL places and the driver lineup is a joke, that couldn't be sold even in the best of times.

The reason why people aren't showing up, have to do with the pile of poo they are being fed. Simple as that.

2. Richmond's worst crowds, were still better then St. Pete or Barber got. Richmond had consistant 40,000 to 50,000 crowds show up. But since Angstadt and the idiots running the sport, thought it didn't look as good on TV (since it was being held at a 100,000 seat facility), it had to go.

Plus they couldn't fleece the people of Baltimore for a few years, if Richmond was on the schedule.

So buh-bye real race track and hello rinky-dink street festival course. Just another mark against real racing and another move away from your heritage and history of open wheel racing.

You should run a disclaimer that says "I am a bitter, twisted and delusional about this..and it is my opinion".

Scotty..Richmond was boring racing...so where do you get off saying Baltimore will be worse? You have stated you hate road / street racing...so why don't you just admit you are against any moves in this direction based on your dislike of it.

You can argue that the sport shouldn't go there because it it is what killed CART, but the fact is CART lost most of their fans when they quit running the Ovals....so there is a grain of truth to it, but the IRL didn't really GAIN fans either and they ran nothing but ovals until just 5 years ago. So where did they go? NASCAR? Most likely...tired of all the fighting, which I think you would be happy to continue.

Like it has been said many times of late, why are you bothering us with this obviously bitter and personal dislike for this series?

[nigelred5]

So the City of Baltimore doesn't only reap the economic impact and publicity of the event, but also gets its roads improved by state and federal money, receives an annual fee and a share of the revenue? This deal is a lot sweeter than the one San Jose got from Champ Car for instance - they even had to subsidize their event. For Baltimore, it seems like a no-brainer, NIMBY's aside. On the other hand, I don't see how the business plan of Baltimore Racing Development will work. They'll have to pay fees to the IRL and the City, pay for the construction costs etc.


Two words- Obama Money. They already had the Federal Reinvestment Act money to repave streets that are badly in need of paving, and the course layout runs on all of the most heavily travelled streets around the Inner Harbor.

A good thing about the course layout there are very few full time residents that would be directly affected by the proposed course. Of the residents in the area, all but possibly a few are outside of the proposed course and are all very used to noise, traffic and constant crowds. The race course closures may actually calm things down in the area to be honest. There are an unbelievable number of hotel rooms INSIDE of the race course and at least 3-5 times that within 2-3 bocks. There are at least 5 existing permanent pedestrian bridges crossing over the proposed course, the convention center is within the race course so there is the potental to have a ton of events Indoors in airconditioned comfort and the amount of entertainment and dining options are off the charts.

[SarahFan]

from cavin this morning...

More ovals in 2011?
Oval tracks could be on the verge of making a comeback in the IndyCar Series.
Asked this week if either New Hampshire Motor Speedway or Las Vegas Motor Speedway could be on the 2011 schedule, the owner of those tracks, Bruton Smith, offered resounding support.
"We expect to do both," he said.
IndyCar's new chief executive officer, Randy Bernard, has stated his desire to keep a balance between ovals and non-ovals. This year's schedule has eight oval and nine non-oval events.
Bernard confirmed negotiations with both tracks. New Hampshire represents another step toward strengthening the league's position in the Northeast, and Las Vegas is a city Bernard had extensive dealings with while CEO of Professional Bull Riders, Inc. He secured the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority as title sponsor of the PBR's World Finals.

[Scotty G.]

Not unlike the pile of poo foisted off by a tiresome, bitter poster here on this forum. My unanswered question remains, if this is so horrible for you why do you continue to torture yourself (and us in the process)?

I anxiously await your reply, but anticipate a typical "I'm just the messenger" or "you can't take the truth" reply.

Gary


It is the truth.

Sorry if you and some of the delusional folks here can't handle the reality of the situation.

People don't care and don't watch the product the Indy Car set forces upon them, because the product is stale, boring and predictable and the driver lineup is stale, boring and not-marketable to the American public. Them's the facts. Indy (which I sincerely hope can be good this year) is the rare instance during the year where much of that doesn't matter. But after Indy, its back to the same ole' same ole, which America has shown they have zero interest in. You can't have 3 or 4 American drivers and expect to ever get America's attention. No matter how great or bad the racing is or how great or bad the TV situation is or how great or bad the marketing arm for the sport is. I think Randy understands this. If he doesn't, nothing will change.

Hopefully Randy brings more ovals back for 2011 (which with the help of SMI, should happen) and more interesting, talented marketable American drivers are added to the lineup. Add that with the lure for talented, KNOWN NASCAR Cup stars entering the Indy 500 (and the obvious cross-promotion that will do for BOTH genres) and you actually have something that can be sold and some actual momentum (which the sport hasn't had in years) can get going.

[Chris R]

I have heard a lot of talk about baseball on NPR lately and it has gotten me to thinking about Indycars (in general, not just Indy)...

To listen to the guys that have been interviewed lately, there is a lot of reverence for "the game" of baseball and the traditions of the game. I understand that baseball is not as popular as it used to be - but it has held it s own better than AOWR....

AOWR has pretty much trashed much of its tradition - it needs to take a long hard look at what makes AOWR special and move back toward it.

I DO NOT buy the contention that American drivers are the issue - baseball, hockey and basketball are full of foreigners. Americans like winners - they basically do not care where they come from as long as they appreciate america and act like they belong here.

I DO think the product needs improving - new cars better tracks better fan relations etc...

I DO think there needs to be a more concrete and serious definition (mission statement??) of what AOWR and every decision made about the sport needs to refer back to that mission statement to be sure it is compatible with it....

Indycar/AOWR does not even know what it is anymore - how can we expect fan to know???

[Mark in Oshawa]

from cavin this morning...

More ovals in 2011?
Oval tracks could be on the verge of making a comeback in the IndyCar Series.
Asked this week if either New Hampshire Motor Speedway or Las Vegas Motor Speedway could be on the 2011 schedule, the owner of those tracks, Bruton Smith, offered resounding support.
"We expect to do both," he said.
IndyCar's new chief executive officer, Randy Bernard, has stated his desire to keep a balance between ovals and non-ovals. This year's schedule has eight oval and nine non-oval events.
Bernard confirmed negotiations with both tracks. New Hampshire represents another step toward strengthening the league's position in the Northeast, and Las Vegas is a city Bernard had extensive dealings with while CEO of Professional Bull Riders, Inc. He secured the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority as title sponsor of the PBR's World Finals.

All excellent news. The Ovals have to stay part of the mix or this series spirals into f1 light....and it would be light...