2010 Indianapolis 500

[Jag_Warrior]

I really didn't see much of it and I don't want to get into a(nother) ratings discussion, but Indy's TV ratings last year were the lowest on record. There's been no uptick recently.

From Sports Business Daily:

The 2009 Indianapolis 500 drew a 4.0/11 final rating on ABC last Sunday, down 13% from a 4.6/13 last year, down 7% from a 4.3/12 in '07, and the lowest rating for the Indy 500 since at least 1973.

For the decade (2000-2009), the Indianapolis 500 averaged a 5.0 rating, down 36% from the 7.8 rating the race averaged during the 1990s, and down 55% from the the 11.2 the race averaged in the 1980s.

Maybe it'll do better this year. It would be sad to see it fall any further.

For the people who got to watch it, I hope it was enjoyable. :up:

[NickFalzone]

RHR said in a post-race interview that he just ran out of fuel, the car stopped, and Conway ran into the back of him. Feel kind of bad for Conway because he was running a good race. And RHR supposedly was on the cusp of some major sponsorship news for the rest of the season, gotta wonder if this has any affect on that.

[Marbles]

RHR said in a post-race interview that he just ran out of fuel, the car stopped, and Conway ran into the back of him. Feel kind of bad for Conway because he was running a good race. And RHR supposedly was on the cusp of some major sponsorship news for the rest of the season, gotta wonder if this has any affect on that.

Thanks.

[TURN3]

RHR said in a post-race interview that he just ran out of fuel, the car stopped, and Conway ran into the back of him. Feel kind of bad for Conway because he was running a good race. And RHR supposedly was on the cusp of some major sponsorship news for the rest of the season, gotta wonder if this has any affect on that.

Yes, thanks for that. I was willing to place all that on Conweasel! I thought RHR was one of the guys that pitted like Conway, Wilson, TK, etc. Apparently not...which begs the huge question: Dario, Wheldon, Marco...through Danica. What might have been if only 1 more lap was run? Very interesting 500 this year.

[SportscarBruce]

I'll add my postscript to the race with the following;

Considering where the sport was a few years ago and where it is in 2010 this race represents a turning point for open wheel.

[Scotty G.]

which begs the huge question: Dario, Wheldon, Marco...through Danica. What might have been if only 1 more lap was run? Very interesting 500 this year.


I think Dario would have still won it.

Wheldon and Marco were on fumes and may not have made it. I think Marco ran out after the green fell.

Dixon probably would have finished 2nd.

Danica was in big trouble (which she admitted afterward) and wouldn't have likely made it. Wilson was about to pass her and the Penske cars would have gotten her down the frontstretch.

I think the finishing order if it stayed green could have been:

1. Franchitti
2. Dixon
3. Wilson
4. Conway
5. Helio

[Scotty G.]

Considering where the sport was a few years ago and where it is in 2010 this race represents a turning point for open wheel.


A turning point? Why because IZOD paid Jack Nicholson and Marky Mark to come to the race (and both acted like asses, I am told).

Why? The ratings haven't improved. Sponsors aren't coming back. American drivers are becoming endangered species. The bleachers today had way, way too many empty spots.

Indy Car still has a REALLY long way to go.

[TURN3]

I think the finishing order if it stayed green could have been:

1. Franchitti
2. Dixon
3. Wilson
4. Conway
5. Helio

I have no way of knowing for sure, none of us do, but I agree for the most part. Dario had a big enough lead that he ws basically going to coast home. I thought Wheldon actually ran out crossing the line with 1 to go. Apparaently RHR did and Danica was dropping back into the group that pitted. Only change I have for you is that Conway was ahead of Wilson when the wreck happened. He likely would've stayed in front of Justin.

[NickFalzone]

I think everyone in the top 10 was running very low, and if it wasn't RHR at that moment, someone else would have run out b4 the end and likely caused a caution. I do think Franchitti could have made it however.

[call_me_andrew]

I saw a lot of empty seats on TV, but I checked the track's website last night and a lot of sections were sold out.

I think it's just a shame so many empty seats were in turn 3, that's one of the sweet spots where you can see half the track.

[TURN3]

I think it's just a shame so many empty seats were in turn 3, that's one of the sweet spots where you can see half the track.

I resent that!

[call_me_andrew]

I thought you would take it as a compliment.

[Scotty G.]

Only change I have for you is that Conway was ahead of Wilson when the wreck happened. He likely would've stayed in front of Justin.


You are right. Reverse Conway with Wilson.

Kanaan may have actually had the best Andretti finish, had it stayed green. Likely about 6th or 7th (if he could have held off Rahal).

[SportscarBruce]

A turning point? Why because IZOD paid Jack Nicholson and Marky Mark to come to the race (and both acted like asses, I am told).

Why? The ratings haven't improved. Sponsors aren't coming back. American drivers are becoming endangered species. The bleachers today had way, way too many empty spots.

Indy Car still has a REALLY long way to go.



Granted not every sponsor is coming back (many are locked into present commitments by exclusive agreements) but sponsors ARE being added. Less percentage of empty seats than at many of the excessively hearlded suckcar series. RHR is American & has the series sponsor on his sideboards. Danica is the most recognized racer in America today. So on and so forth. Then add in this exciting, emotional conclusion to the 2010 Indy 500 and all you come away with is piss and vinager? Is this Robin Miller or Dave Despain I'm addressing here? :rolleyes:

[TURN3]

Rats, I just realized how much I missed Milwaukee being the week after Indy...oh well. Sounds like RHR tore ligaments in his thumb during pit road contact. Having surgery tomorrow so we'll see how well that works out for Texas.

[call_me_andrew]

Fuel economy races are boring

Why? Don't you like it when drivers have to lift?

[NickFalzone]

yeah, here's the deal on RHR's day:

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[MDS]

From DR&R's twitter feed:

We can confirm that Mike was awake and alert after the accident, has a broken leg, and was airlifted to Methodist due to traffic concerns.

[beachbum]

I think everyone in the top 10 was running very low, and if it wasn't RHR at that moment, someone else would have run out b4 the end and likely caused a caution. I do think Franchitti could have made it however.After the race was over, it occurred to me that Ganassi was banking on someone running out before the checkers and the race would end under yellow. They knew how far everyone else could run and it was a sure bet. With all of the teams making fuel economy gambles, someone was going to lose. All of the AA cars were in big trouble, but I doubt anyone expected the wreck when RHR ran out.

Fuel economy races are a part of racing, but it was a very weird "race" at the end. The results certainly don't show how people ran all day.

[Lousada]

I don't see how you can dismiss Kansas as a bad race, and at the same time think this Indy was a good race. There was barely any passing, certainly not for the lead. Only the first two laps after a restart were mildly exciting and then it was single file racing. I wouldn't label this anywhere near my favourite Indy500's, not even as one of my favourite races of the season.

[Dr. Krogshöj]

There was barely any passing, certainly not for the lead.

There wasn't many, but there was one or two, too bad the broadcaster missed them.

[SarahFan]

There wasn't many, but there was one or two, too bad the broadcaster missed them.


was Dario's pass on lap 1 under the yellow?

[Dr. Krogshöj]

was Dario's pass on lap 1 under the yellow?

How could you tell? According to race control, no. We have no reason to doubt it, I guess.

[SarahFan]

How could you tell? According to race control, no. We have no reason to doubt it, I guess.


well in that case I am no longer going to doubt PT passed helio in 02'.....I mean race control had him listed as p1 on laps 199 and 200

[harvick#1]

why no love for Alex Lloyd, while everyone goes gaga for Danica for barely passing one car one the race track.

wheres the tabloids for Alex being in a small team and still took 3rd.

glad Conway was ok from that serious wreck, but I would've like to see the race end under green.

again no luck for TK, you really have to feel for the guy, going from 32nd to 2nd and the fuel milage killed him.

thanks for all the commercials ABC, I really thought there was a race yesterday, and Indy was empty this year.

I believe that you cant blame the tracks for not getting people to attend, the tickets arent the money killer, its the freaking hotels that have robbed people in not wanting to go anymore to races. until Hotels stop jacking up rates for race weekends, there will continue to be poor crowds at all racing events

[Chamoo]

why no love for Alex Lloyd, while everyone goes gaga for Danica for barely passing one car one the race track.

wheres the tabloids for Alex being in a small team and still took 3rd.

glad Conway was ok from that serious wreck, but I would've like to see the race end under green.

again no luck for TK, you really have to feel for the guy, going from 32nd to 2nd and the fuel milage killed him.

thanks for all the commercials ABC, I really thought there was a race yesterday, and Indy was empty this year.

I believe that you cant blame the tracks for not getting people to attend, the tickets arent the money killer, its the freaking hotels that have robbed people in not wanting to go anymore to races. until Hotels stop jacking up rates for race weekends, there will continue to be poor crowds at all racing events

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that alot of people were not in their seats due to the sun. Reports that 1500+ people were attended to at the Infield Medical Center for heat exhaustion and other heat related illnesses are coming through.

Also, on the front stretch, the stands were packed in the shade, but anywhere there was sunshine on the front stretch, it was empty.

I believe it was the highest race day temperatures since 1993 or something along those lines?

[Lousada]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that alot of people were not in their seats due to the sun. Reports that 1500+ people were attended to at the Infield Medical Center for heat exhaustion and other heat related illnesses are coming through.

Also, on the front stretch, the stands were packed in the shade, but anywhere there was sunshine on the front stretch, it was empty.

I believe it was the highest race day temperatures since 1993 or something along those lines?

I was looking at the sattelite cam from Race control. These large stretches of empty seats were empty from before the start way until the finish. 240k would be a reasonable guess if you add the infield.

The tv-ratings will be all important though, and the overnights appear to be down again ;(

[domaza]

Great race from my opinion. Lot of nice and clean fights and passes - lucky no big accidents til end.

Sadly the attendance was really not what it should have been.

[Anubis]

Yeah, it would have been good to have a 1, 2, 3. :)

Top drives from them all, though - loved seeing Conway, Wilson and Dario pretty much leading the pack. I really do like Justin Wilson - such a classy guy and really deserving of a high finish on an oval to help shake off the road course specialist tag.

Lloyd I'm still annoyed with for slamming the door on Wilson at Long Beach, but it was still good to see him running up front.

I'm trying to remember what lap Conway pitted for fuel after he was leading? Given everyone else was tippy toeing around when the yellow came out, he could've been on for a great finish. I know he has a bit of a reputation as a crasher, but now we've heard RHR's side of things, I don't think we can blame him for this one. Not much you can do when the car in front coughs and dies without warning, and not as though he drove over him after the finish, eh Dario? :)

Echo the sentiment about Wilson - he's a class act. A very British British driver, if you know what I mean.

[beachbum]

why no love for Alex Lloyd, while everyone goes gaga for Danica for barely passing one car one the race track.

wheres the tabloids for Alex being in a small team and still took 3rd.
This topic has come up before, so I checked the lap charts that show positions at start finish. I probably missed a few, but Danica made about 7 passes and was passed about the same number of times. Most of these were back and forth with the same people. She and the 19 traded positions a number of times. Both ran near the back of the pack until the fuel economy run at the end elevated them to the top 10. I can't see how either could be called out for great races. They just got good fuel economy and didn't make mistakes.

I am no fan of Danica, but she did get it right in the post race. Her crew got her more positions than she did. Depending on how you do the math, her crew got her about 8 spots

[anthonyvop]

I believe that you cant blame the tracks for not getting people to attend, the tickets arent the money killer, its the freaking hotels that have robbed people in not wanting to go anymore to races. until Hotels stop jacking up rates for race weekends, there will continue to be poor crowds at all racing events

The limited Hotels within 30 miles of Sebring jack up their prices for the weekend of the 12 hours. A hotel 30 miles away that usually charges $59 a night charges $250......and yet Sebring increased attendance this year.

Stop looking for excuses. The problem is the product.

[harvick#1]

The limited Hotels within 30 miles of Sebring jack up their prices for the weekend of the 12 hours. A hotel 30 miles away that usually charges $59 a night charges $250......and yet Sebring increased attendance this year.

Stop looking for excuses. The problem is the product.

because the 12 hours of Sebring is a party weekend, during spring break, and in Florida.

and plus, the majority of the people there will camp, much like a Petit last year when I was there.

I'm not looking for excuses, but that is one of the problems with the attendance.

[anthonyvop]

Sorry, but the problem is the product. If the product is good then people come. The Super Bowl is under no threat of not selling out and the costs are significantly higher than going to the Indy 500.

[TURN3]

Harv, you can't argue with this guy. He obviosuly has it all figured out along with the respective solutions. Which is why he's achieved such a high postion within the Indycar executive ranks. Glad he takes the time to sit by here and explain to all of us his vast intelligence. My opinion is that if you don't have a solution, quit being part of the problum.

[downtowndeco]

Could you please name all of the NFL games that have a higher attendance than the Indy 500? How about NBA games? MLB? F1? NASCAR? Horse races?

While you're at it why don't you list any and all sanctioning bodies who have not had significant stretches of empty seats the last few years?



Sorry, but the problem is the product. If the product is good then people come. The Super Bowl is under no threat of not selling out and the costs are significantly higher than going to the Indy 500.

[anthonyvop]

Could you please name all of the NFL games that have a higher attendance than the Indy 500? How about NBA games? MLB? F1? NASCAR? Horse races?

All those are series not a single event. Comparing the series the IRL sin't even in the same league as those you mentioned.



While you're at it why don't you list any and all sanctioning bodies who have not had significant stretches of empty seats the last few years?

WRC.

[SoCalPVguy]

Could you please name all of the NFL games that have a higher attendance than the Indy 500?

Not a fair argument, if the Super Bowl was played in a 400,000 seat stadium, it would have outdrawn this year's I500 which had about 180 K in a 400 K seat venue.

In all of racing, the poor economy has affected sponsorship and declining attendance due to cost to travel/attend for the folks. No doubt about it. But Anthony's opinion that the poor product and no name drivers are additionally significant and unique to Indy car is valid. The "split" has essentially killed OWB for now and the I500, is now only an 80-lb. gorilla.

PS this years race was borrrriiing. I took a nap at lap 100 with Dario leading by 3.5 seconds, awoke and hour plus later with ten laps to go and Dario leading.. by 3.5 seconds.

[anthonyvop]

Oh well!







ABC Indianapolis 500 telecast earns 4.0 overnight rating, down from 4.2 overnight last year #indy500







http://twitter.com/AndyHallESPN/status/15122013055

Now what is the excuse? Hotels? Danica? TV?

[downtowndeco]

Again. Could you please name all of the NFL games that have a higher attendance than the Indy 500? How about NBA games? MLB? F1? NASCAR? Horse races?

WRC? Yeah, you got me there. They don't have seats.


All those are series not a single event. Comparing the series the IRL sin't even in the same league as those you mentioned.

WRC.

[downtowndeco]

Yeah. We all know the NFL is a monster but get back to us when they build and sell out a 400k stadium.


Not a fair argument, if the Super Bowl was played in a 400,000 seat stadium, it would have outdrawn this year's I500 which had about 180 K in a 400 K seat venue.

[anthonyvop]

Again. Could you please name all of the NFL games that have a higher attendance than the Indy 500? How about NBA games? MLB? F1? NASCAR? Horse races?



You insist on comparing one event to a series?

Fine.

Any NFL team will draw more spectators than the Indy 500.
Last year the worst team in attendance(Oakland) drew 354,276. More than the Indy 500.

[anthonyvop]

WRC? Yeah, you got me there. They don't have seats.

The WRC should call Indy. They have plenty that aren't being used.

[anthonyvop]

Lets stop comparing the Indy 500 to other events. The Idea that the Indy 500 draws more people than a NFL games means that it is more popular than the NFL is preposterous.

We can only compare the Indy 500 to the Indy 500

We can argue if the crowd was bigger or not but we will never know because Indy doesn't release official attendance figures.

We do know some facts:

There were 1000's of empty seats at an event that use to sell out months ahead of time.

The overnight ratings were down from last year.

The most dominating team in Indy history cannot find sponsors for two of it's drivers. That same team fielded the pole winning car and the favorite to win.

The IRL is well into it's 3rd year of the end of the split.

enough of the silly excuses.......It is the product that is hurting Indy Car. Change is needed and needed fast.

[TURN3]

I thought you were just whining a page or so ago about who you weren't talking about F1, you were talking about Indy? You weren't talking about NASCAR, you were talking about Indy? Now you're talking about NFL, NBA, etc.? Could you at least make up your mind please? And what the he77 is WRC?

There isn't any doubt the attendance has been down but it and the momentum appear to be coming back albeit slowly. NASCAR has been losing ratings and attendance too and there isn't any doubt the economy is a huge part of it. Are there other reasons? Sure but until some smart a$$ can 1.) Make an argument without compromising his own principals, 2.) Provide a solution, or 3.) Tell us something that isn't already 10 years in the know...please find a topic you might have some education on.

And to supplement the argument of NFL teams, the fact is they are the BEST drawing entertainment out there right now. Still, it takes even the worst NFL team 8/9 weeks to draw the amount of people in that IMS pulls in during down times. And that is largely the same exact people 8/9 times so a 1 game sample is a representative sample if you want a comparison. Read up on your education of statistics if you need to but that is the simple truth.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Yup. The Product sucks Tony. I know..we will get full fendered race cars, and put roofs on them..and give them no downforce...oh wait a minute, THAT's NASCAR!

Seriously, The product is a problem, but only as so far as either a new car or opening up the rules or changing them so the cars can run together easily. What I saw was a lot of follow the leader this year. Even a lapped car could hold up people for a while....it was only on restarts you saw guys get racy, and the Conway/Hunter-Reay crash showed what happens when you get too close. There is just not enough speed differential....and guys have to really try to force stuff.

IT wasn't a bad 500...it was what it was, and Dario had the best car, and did the best job of staying out of trouble. Kudo's to Dario Franchitti, a truly classy guy....

[anthonyvop]

I thought you were just whining a page or so ago about who you weren't talking about F1, you were talking about Indy? You weren't talking about NASCAR, you were talking about Indy? Now you're talking about NFL, NBA, etc.? Could you at least make up your mind please?


Lets talk about Indy


And what the he77 is WRC?


Really? You haven't ever heard of the WRC? The 2nd most popular form of Motorsport in the World.


There isn't any doubt the attendance has been down but it and the momentum appear to be coming back albeit slowly. NASCAR has been losing ratings and attendance too and there isn't any doubt the economy is a huge part of it.


Can somebody explain to me how a bad economy hurts TV ratings on broadcast television?



Are there other reasons? Sure but until some smart a$$ can 1.) Make an argument without compromising his own principals, 2.) Provide a solution, or 3.) Tell us something that isn't already 10 years in the know...please find a topic you might have some education on.
So why are you here? Really? I have been listening to the excuses for years. The fact is the product is the problem.
An ugly Car, uninspiring slug of an engine, Flat out all away around racing combined with no-name and foreign drivers combination haven't worked for the last 8 years.


And to supplement the argument of NFL teams, the fact is they are the BEST drawing entertainment out there right now. Still, it takes even the worst NFL team 8/9 weeks to draw the amount of people in that IMS pulls in during down times. And that is largely the same exact people 8/9 times so a 1 game sample is a representative sample if you want a comparison. Read up on your education of statistics if you need to but that is the simple truth.
So now we are back to the NFL comparison?

[Mark in Oshawa]

....
There isn't any doubt the attendance has been down but it and the momentum appear to be coming back albeit slowly. NASCAR has been losing ratings and attendance too and there isn't any doubt the economy is a huge part of it. Are there other reasons? Sure but until some smart a$$ can 1.) Make an argument without compromising his own principals, 2.) Provide a solution, or 3.) Tell us something that isn't already 10 years in the know...please find a topic you might have some education on.

Here here...There is a ton of Ken's and Tony's out there that love to point to the lousy ratings and this or that, but they don't have any solution other than firing everyone. That is meaningless.....you could end up with bigger tools in the office than the guys you fired.


And to supplement the argument of NFL teams, the fact is they are the BEST drawing entertainment out there right now. Still, it takes even the worst NFL team 8/9 weeks to draw the amount of people in that IMS pulls in during down times. And that is largely the same exact people 8/9 times so a 1 game sample is a representative sample if you want a comparison. Read up on your education of statistics if you need to but that is the simple truth.


NFL teams draw pretty much sell outs in all but about the 4 or 5 worst teams most years. I saw a lot of empty seats at Indy, but I put that down to the lost fans of the split years. The fact is, the interest in the 500 has dropped steadily pretty much since 1995. People migrated away from the bickering, fighting and substandard product and they are coming back. The NFL draws steady sell outs in any market where the team is more than just passable, and their TV ratings slay the IRL on any scale. So....to try and say the crowd at Indy is worth 4 NFL crowds is just meaningless. I am sure if Jerry Jones could build a football stadium with 200000 seats, he would sell em....

Mine is bigger than yours doesn't work here...it is apples and oranges. The IRL should be compared to where the sport was in 1994....and then the message is obvious....

[anthonyvop]

Yup. The Product sucks Tony. I know..we will get full fendered race cars, and put roofs on them..and give them no downforce...oh wait a minute, THAT's NASCAR!



I am in no, way, shape or form advocating a NASCAR style series. In fact I would go the exact opposite.
Multiple Chassis, Multiple engines and a slow weaning off of Oval racing. Keeping the Indy 500 but with some changes.

[beachbum]

I am in no, way, shape or form advocating a NASCAR style series. In fact I would go the exact opposite.
Multiple Chassis, Multiple engines and a slow weaning off of Oval racing. Keeping the Indy 500 but with some changes.In other words, CARTIII.

[TURN3]

Multiple Chassis, Multiple engines and a slow weaning off of Oval racing. Keeping the Indy 500 but with some changes.

The first meaningful thing you've said in the thread. I don't advocate fully weaning off oval racing, you need the variety of ovals that have been discussed here in the past. Other than that, you are exactly right but it is starting to look more and more like '11 is turning into '12 is turning into '13 now. That is what frustrates me the most. We all know what the major boost will be along with economic recovery over the next 5 yrs...get it done.

[call_me_andrew]

Ok the rating is down, but what about the share? It was a nice day, maybe less people were watching TV.

[Jag_Warrior]

Lets stop comparing the Indy 500 to other events. The Idea that the Indy 500 draws more people than a NFL games means that it is more popular than the NFL is preposterous.

We can only compare the Indy 500 to the Indy 500

We can argue if the crowd was bigger or not but we will never know because Indy doesn't release official attendance figures.

We do know some facts:

There were 1000's of empty seats at an event that use to sell out months ahead of time.

The overnight ratings were down from last year.

The most dominating team in Indy history cannot find sponsors for two of it's drivers. That same team fielded the pole winning car and the favorite to win.

The IRL is well into it's 3rd year of the end of the split.

enough of the silly excuses.......It is the product that is hurting Indy Car. Change is needed and needed fast.

I really can't find any fault with this post. You're correct. Whether it's General Motors or the IRL, you can't keep looking for excuses or wanting to shoot the messenger. If people keep turning away from what you're offering, at some point you have to look at the product and realize that you're not meeting customer demands.

If that's an accurate figure, a 4.0 is the lowest overnight that I think there's ever been. If the number doesn't pick up by the final (once smaller markets are included), Indy could dip into the 3's. So Indy is now approaching what Long Beach used to get back in the early/mid 90's.

So what's the answer? I have no idea. It's not my fault!

[fugariracing]

I think there's several factors in play, here. ESPN/ABC has not done much in the way of promotion and/or coverage to help IndyCar the past few years, particularly since they got NASCAR back on there. Seriously, seeing Danica/Helio dominate the pre-race coverage and then not seeing guys like Lloyd, Scheckter when he was charging or Simona (your ROY) on screen at all is a complete joke. Unsurprising.

Last year the first ESPN/ABC race was Indy... this year they had two pre-Indy events. Rain-delayed at St. Pete so pushed to Monday and then a Saturday afternoon at Kansas. Neither are particularly great time slots. They had the chance to push Indy promotion there but I am not sure they did enough.

It could be the casual fan is almost devoid of interest for the same product and personalities each year. The Danica luster has worn off, despite her efforts in staying out of trouble and managing the race to wind up with a better finish than she has been all month. Helio's story has been told time and time again, and the tax evasion bit was far more relevant last year than this. And you have four women and yet Danica still gets all the pub. Ridiculous, IMO.

Quite frankly if the coverage remains subpar there's less incentive to want to tune in if they don't tell you enough to want to draw you in. There were plenty of other stories the coverage could capture, but they choose not to.

Attendance-wise, from being at the track, it was not as poor as it seemed from TV. We're talking about what was the hottest 500 on record, 96 degrees at its peak, and metal low seats with obscured or poor vision in the empties. Getting into the track about 6:30 a.m. and the lines were still backed up on 30th and Georgetown Rds. I can only compare it to '08, first year after unification, and it seemed bigger than that.

There's also the American driver bit - there were 9 this year which is the fewest number on record. Does the casual fan want to watch a bunch of turnover and foreigners they know nothing about, even if they are talented and better than we're made to think?

It's a conundrum because IZOD is certainly making an effort but it seems mismanaged. The Race to the Party ad campaign is even worse than last year's oft-repeated ad we saw about 5 million times, and it isn't tracking well in terms of getting people interested. It's an identity crisis because IZOD is pumping the money in, they want to promote the series as sexy again, Bernard wants to make it about the drivers again but RHR is still not confirmed past Texas, yet the tangible results are still measured by ratings and that drives backing more than anything.

[anthonyvop]

It's an identity crisis because IZOD is pumping the money in, they want to promote the series as sexy again, Bernard wants to make it about the drivers again but RHR is still not confirmed past Texas, yet the tangible results are still measured by ratings and that drives backing more than anything.

Making it "sexy" again is about the drivers.

It is the Indy 500. Anybody with even a passing interest knew it was Sunday.
ESPN promoted the race a lot and all the airtime on Vs.(I counted 16 hours) was also a huge promotion for the race.

The fact is people weren't interested.

[NickFalzone]

Making it "sexy" again is about the drivers.

It is the Indy 500. Anybody with even a passing interest knew it was Sunday.
ESPN promoted the race a lot and all the airtime on Vs.(I counted 16 hours) was also a huge promotion for the race.

The fact is people weren't interested.

A 4.0 is not a sign that people weren't interested. It is a pretty good number. But it is a sign that many less people were interested in sitting down and watching Indy than perhaps anytime, ever since ratings came about. That being said, aren't all sports and racing in general in a bit of a ratings decline the past few years? NASCAR's ratings are averaging lower this year than last. And last year they were down from the previous year. I feel that it is possible that IndyCar has stemmed the blood loss recently and while it still may be lacking the casual Indy 500 fans it used to have, the hardcore base is perhaps a bit stronger than it was recently. I do not see a series that is getting worse and worse, but one that is perhaps a season or two away from actually GROWING (which would be a huge step). You can feel free to yell the sky is falling, and you certainly have legit reasons to say so, but I respectfully disagree and have optimism for the future of the series. Yes, a new car(s) in 2012 will be a crucial part of the growth, if it is to happen. If the new car does not happen in 2012, then things could be pretty stagnant for awhile if not precariously so.

[Easy Drifter]

In my opinion part of the problem is that ABC/ESPN still do not know how to cover a race. Poor direction, poor commentators, and far too many commercials at the wrong time. Side by side helps a bit but going to commercial of any type when it is apparent there is likely to be a pass or pit stops is poor directing. In Canada we had a lot of ads that were not side by side. Many were promoting TSN stick and ball shows and even had their Sports Centre updates. If I am watching a race I don't care about the scores of stick and ball from the day before. Commercials could be slotted in during the yellow flag cleanups.
Back to side by side. I have a 32 inch set and with side by side I cannot identify the cars most of the time.
I. personally, was interested in how all the women were doing but there was practically no coverage except of the Princess. I saw Sarah heading for the pits but there was no mention of that. Just shortly thereafter shown on the tape as out.
I did not know until today that she had brushed the wall and the same for Ana.
Someone in the TV control should have picked up on both, or even a pit reporter.
All of the above probably has created some of the disinterest as coverage of other races by other networks is so much better.
It is a rare instance in F1 coverage where any sort of contact is missed totally.

[anthonyvop]

A 4.0 is not a sign that people weren't interested. It is a pretty good number. But it is a sign that many less people were interested in sitting down and watching Indy than perhaps anytime, ever since ratings came about. That being said, aren't all sports and racing in general in a bit of a ratings decline the past few years? NASCAR's ratings are averaging lower this year than last. And last year they were down from the previous year. I feel that it is possible that IndyCar has stemmed the blood loss recently and while it still may be lacking the casual Indy 500 fans it used to have, the hardcore base is perhaps a bit stronger than it was recently. I do not see a series that is getting worse and worse, but one that is perhaps a season or two away from actually GROWING (which would be a huge step). You can feel free to yell the sky is falling, and you certainly have legit reasons to say so, but I respectfully disagree and have optimism for the future of the series. Yes, a new car(s) in 2012 will be a crucial part of the growth, if it is to happen. If the new car does not happen in 2012, then things could be pretty stagnant for awhile if not precariously so.

A 4.0 overnight is less than it was last year so I fail to see how they have "stemmed the blood loss"

I wished i could share your optimism but aside from a few extra cars to fill up the back of the grid I fail to see anything positive happening lately.

Since the end of the split the IRL has had to contend with 2 series for the eyes of the TV Motorsports fan. NASCAR and the NHRA. Starting this fall there will be another series on a major Network. It is just going to get tougher.

[harvick#1]

You insist on comparing one event to a series?

Fine.

Any NFL team will draw more spectators than the Indy 500.
Last year the worst team in attendance(Oakland) drew 354,276. More than the Indy 500.

you cant compare one race to 8 home games :p : thats just not fair

have you watched MLB games, Tampa Bay, Toronto, and many others, its almost like they are playing in an empty stadium its that bad.

the Super Bowl will always sell out like all the other championship games because of the appeal to be there for your team, or for teh sake of being there.

but its also true that the Indy 500 is more for the average America's, the ones that get to go to the major Stanley Cup, World Series, Super Bowl games are the Rich *******s who are normally corporate people who have no clue what the game is but they buy these tickets to entertain clients, not for the people who truely root for the teams.

[Anubis]

There's also the American driver bit - there were 9 this year which is the fewest number on record. Does the casual fan want to watch a bunch of turnover and foreigners they know nothing about, even if they are talented and better than we're made to think?


If the casual fan knows nothing about the foreign drivers, isn't that more a reflection on the fans than the quality of the "product"? Either Indy wants to be an all American event, in which case it can't claim to be a globally important race, or it plays in the international pond. Can't have it both ways.

[e2mtt]

In today's economy, to have a single sporting event that pulls in 180,000 to 250,000 is fantastic. All attendaces are down everywhere, Nascar races that always sold out have empty seats, MLB stadiums are nearly empty in some cities, and even a lot of NFL teams are having attendance problems. So you aren't pulling 1995 numbers... well it ain't 1995 right now!

Low TV ratings... TV ratings are low everywhere. A lot fewer people sit down & watch TV events start to finish. The current ABC broadcast team leaves a lot to be desired. Get used to lower ratings, Indycar better get used to attracting people in ways other then just getting them to watch a race broadcast.

[Mark in Oshawa]

If the casual fan knows nothing about the foreign drivers, isn't that more a reflection on the fans than the quality of the "product"? Either Indy wants to be an all American event, in which case it can't claim to be a globally important race, or it plays in the international pond. Can't have it both ways.

Excellent point. I hear all this whining about "Too many foreign names" from a few people, and it makes me laugh. The guys who do the most whining about this would then turn around and tell me that the 500 was the most important race on the planet in its heyday when 32 out of 33 were Americans....

The fact is, this is a unique and absolutlely wonderful event, but the actual cars racing and the level of competition has evolved into a stale mess because the fact is 33 Dallaras with the same motors on THIS track produce a very static and race where only a few easy passes are made. In short, I can see more battles on some f1 races. That is not good...

The coverage doesn't help either. How many passes did they show Kanaan make as he charged to the front? He was the ONLY guy out there in the first 50 laps really shaking the tree and ABC/ESPN showed....the leader....

A lot of the problem with the "product" is the nature of the cars, but when someone does manage to do something, TV often misses it....

[e2mtt]

...
The coverage doesn't help either. How many passes did they show Kanaan make as he charged to the front? He was the ONLY guy out there in the first 50 laps really shaking the tree and ABC/ESPN showed....the leader.....


This is huge! Kanaan should have been the story of the day... last ditch qualifying after 2 wrecks, started smack in the back, passed his way all the way through the field, finally challenging for the lead, then an untimely pit stop cost a shot at the win. Nope. Very little focus on Kanaan, hardly any of his passes on TV, etc. (& Kanaan is such a likeable guy too...!)

[SarahFan]

A decade plus with no track record ..... A decade plus of declineing attendance and TV ratings

[Lousada]

If the casual fan knows nothing about the foreign drivers, isn't that more a reflection on the fans than the quality of the "product"? Either Indy wants to be an all American event, in which case it can't claim to be a globally important race, or it plays in the international pond. Can't have it both ways.

This viewpoint is so wrong. The fans are never wrong, they are the customers, they pay the bills. If this series ever wants to be relevant as bigtime racing, it should listen to what the fans want.
However, I think "foreign" is just a buzz word. What is actually meant, I think, is that the drivers are unknown and not selected on talent. They just happen to be foreign. If it was obvious that this or that driver was driving in Indycars because (s)he's an actual talent, his/her nationality wouldn't matter much in the end.

[Lousada]

In today's economy, to have a single sporting event that pulls in 180,000 to 250,000 is fantastic. All attendaces are down everywhere, Nascar races that always sold out have empty seats, MLB stadiums are nearly empty in some cities, and even a lot of NFL teams are having attendance problems. So you aren't pulling 1995 numbers... well it ain't 1995 right now!

You are correct here. Attendance during the "month" was reportedly up, and it was certainly not down! This should not be spinned (spun?) as something bad.


Low TV ratings... TV ratings are low everywhere. A lot fewer people sit down & watch TV events start to finish. The current ABC broadcast team leaves a lot to be desired. Get used to lower ratings, Indycar better get used to attracting people in ways other then just getting them to watch a race broadcast.

If only it were that easy. This is not the normal across-the-board ratings drop, but another chapter in a trend.

[SoCalPVguy]

If only it were that easy. This is not the normal across-the-board ratings drop, but another chapter in a trend.

My opinion is that the "split" killed off OWB even worse than originally imagined. At first I am sure that many of us thought that after 3 years together, OWB, Indycar and Indy500 would start to come back... however both TV ratings and attendance have trended downward in those three years of 'unification'.

I liken it to no NFL in Los Angeles for 13 years... an entire generation of fans has been lost, now polls show little support for an NFL return to LA and zero support of any kind involving public funds, whereas one year after the NFL left (1998) it was 100% do what you have to to get a team in here...

An entire generation of Indycar fans has been lost, can a newer generation be encouraged to restart old traditions ? maybe not...

[champcarray]

Let's put it this way: our 10-year-old daughter had absolutely no interest in watching the I500. And your talking about a kid whose parent's attended CART races year after year. TG's version of Indy hasn't cultivated "the next generation of fans" for a long, long time... and the ratings/interest continue to decline. The coverage sucks, the drivers aren't all over ESPN Sports Center, you can't read about the series or the drivers in the newspaper, etc.

Compare that to the Red Sox. They replace about a quarter of their players every year yet sell out every home game and most of their road games. They have been cultivating Red Sox Nation like crazy and have won over kids and parents alike all over the place. We're talking about an incredibly slow and "boring" sport: baseball. Here in CT, our daughter and most of her classmates love to talk about the latest Red Sox exploits. The owners of the Sox have made their team matter to the next generation of fans and are the stronger for it. I hope Barnhardt and his team can do the same.

[Jag_Warrior]

However, I think "foreign" is just a buzz word. What is actually meant, I think, is that the drivers are unknown and not selected on talent. They just happen to be foreign. If it was obvious that this or that driver was driving in Indycars because (s)he's an actual talent, his/her nationality wouldn't matter much in the end.

Bullseye! :up: I'll offer up three "foreign" names and let's see if anybody thinks they would have helped or hurt ratings and attendance: Michael Schumacher, Juan Pablo Montoya and Paul Tracy.

And let's say they were all sponsored by a "foreign" automaker: Ferrari (in blood red Dallaras).

I'll go double or nothing on the crow eatin' contest. Anybody want to bet that those particular foreign boys WOULDN'T increase ratings and attendance with their presence? :dozey:

I don't follow this series as much as I used to follow AOWR overall, but I think I'm still something more than a casual fan. But even I couldn't tell you exactly and accurately which drivers are American and which are Canadian, Australian or English - cause I couldn't pick the majority of them out of a lineup these days. A lot of casual fans still think that Paul Tracy is an American, and thought that Roger Yasukawa was Japanese. I've never heard Tracy say "aboot", but he's Canadian, and Yasukawa is as American as I am. So who would Americans rather see at Indy (or any other race), the "foreigner", Tracy, or the American, Yasukawa?

So I fully agree with Lousada, that "foreign" is just a buzz word for "unknown" and not necessarily selected on talent.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Bullseye! :up: I'll offer up three "foreign" names and let's see if anybody thinks they would have helped or hurt ratings and attendance: Michael Schumacher, Juan Pablo Montoya and Paul Tracy.

And let's say they were all sponsored by a "foreign" automaker: Ferrari (in blood red Dallaras).

I'll go double or nothing on the crow eatin' contest. Anybody want to bet that those particular foreign boys WOULDN'T increase ratings and attendance with their presence? :dozey:

I don't follow this series as much as I used to follow AOWR overall, but I think I'm still something more than a casual fan. But even I couldn't tell you exactly and accurately which drivers are American and which are Canadian, Australian or English - cause I couldn't pick the majority of them out of a lineup these days. A lot of casual fans still think that Paul Tracy is an American, and thought that Roger Yasukawa was Japanese. I've never heard Tracy say "aboot", but he's Canadian, and Yasukawa is as American as I am. So who would Americans rather see at Indy (or any other race), the "foreigner", Tracy, or the American, Yasukawa?

So I fully agree with Lousada, that "foreign" is just a buzz word for "unknown" and not necessarily selected on talent.


Jag, you are preaching to the converted. PT is a home boy from my neck of the woods, and he started off karting just 15 minutes from where I sit, but to most Americans, they have NO idea he isn't from the US.

The fact is, Americans like colourful, talented drivers. Everyone loved Alex Zanardi when he raced in CART, and I didn't see a campaign to keep Nigel Mansell out of a seat so some American could have a ride.

The only point I agree with some of the America first guys is that the ride buyers of questionable talent is not helping things. That said, this sort of thing was inevitable when the cost of racing at Indy became more than building a roadster in the garage down the street and getting 6 buddies to show up and be the pit crew.

Racing has changed, and maybe in some ways for the worse. It is less romantic, but the fact is large amounts of money are needed to be on the track and competitive, and the drivers who can line up sponsors are going to get rides. Don't matter where they are from. Tony George hated that reality in 1992 when he heard how Jeff Gordon couldn't get a sniff, but the fact is John Bickford didn't understand that an unhearlded kid racing sprint cars (unhearalded in OW rear engine race cars) had to have more than talent and a clean attitude. It isn't any different now, and it hasn't been much different for years. Talented drivers often get screwed over in all forms of racing.

Indy will be more important if they get the lost generation back and they need to do that with an interesting product. The drivers nationality isn't a deal breaker if they are fun to watch and provide a great show. THAT is the problem right now...the show isn't what it should be.

[call_me_andrew]

A decade plus with no track record ..... A decade plus of declineing attendance and TV ratings

So what are you doing to fix it?

[SarahFan]

So what are you doing to fix it?

Im not the problem

[Bob Riebe]

The drivers nationality isn't a deal breaker if they are fun to watch and provide a great show. THAT is the problem right now...the show isn't what it should be.

It is in the U.S.
Our paper in which the columnists rarely pay attention to racing, of any kind, had an article today about the lack of U.S. drivers giving statistics to support how sad it has become.
Local or regional fans used to, and still do for the few that make it, pay a lot of attention when the home town boys appear/ed.

That plus the pathetic generic formula, is making Indy the pathetic thing it has become.

[Lousada]

I know some of you don't like to hear this, but the final tv-ratings are in:

The race, which aired on ABC (WRTV-TV Channel 6) on Sunday, earned a 3.68 rating,
http://www.ibj.com/blog/article?articleId=20274

[beachbum]

I know some of you don't like to hear this, but the final tv-ratings are in:

http://www.ibj.com/blog/article?articleId=20274Down 7%. The Charlotte 600 was reported to be down 8%. So I guess you could say Indy Car did better than NASCAR!.

Of course, hockey beat both of them. It is a changing world. With 200-300 channels, getting better ratings is hard for any niche sport. Like it or not, all racing is a niche sport, even NASCAR.

[SarahFan]

Down 7%. The Charlotte 600 was reported to be down 8%. So I guess you could say Indy Car did better than NASCAR!.

Of course, hockey beat both of them. It is a changing world. With 200-300 channels, getting better ratings is hard for any niche sport. Like it or not, all racing is a niche sport, even NASCAR.

http://tvbythenumbers.com/2010/05/31/tv-ratings-nascar-coca-cola-600-laps-weak-field/52752

i think the 600 was up... by over a point.... 6+mil viwers is a 5 or so rating isnt it?

[Lousada]

Down 7%. The Charlotte 600 was reported to be down 8%. So I guess you could say Indy Car did better than NASCAR!.

Of course, hockey beat both of them. It is a changing world. With 200-300 channels, getting better ratings is hard for any niche sport. Like it or not, all racing is a niche sport, even NASCAR.

Last year the 600 was rain-delayed. It's 8% down compared to 2008. In 2008 the 500 got a 4.6. So in the same period Indy went down 20% compared to 8% for the 600.

Actually the Indy500 scored a worse rating than the season average for Nascar!!!

[beachbum]

http://tvbythenumbers.com/2010/05/31/tv-ratings-nascar-coca-cola-600-laps-weak-field/52752

i think the 600 was up... by over a point.... 6+mil viwers is a 5 or so rating isnt it?Last year the race ran on Monday where ratings were way down from 2008

http://sportsmediawatch.blogspot.com/2010/06/shift-into-turbo-coca-cola-600-matches.html

[Mark in Oshawa]

It is in the U.S.
Our paper in which the columnists rarely pay attention to racing, of any kind, had an article today about the lack of U.S. drivers giving statistics to support how sad it has become.
Local or regional fans used to, and still do for the few that make it, pay a lot of attention when the home town boys appear/ed.

That plus the pathetic generic formula, is making Indy the pathetic thing it has become.

The Generic formula is a bigger issue than the drivers. I do agree tho, the fans want one of their own to cheer on, but you cant dumb down the world so your guys can keep up. Fans flock to races in Canada where they may have one guy in the field. Some years we had none. I think the personality of the guys at the top of the series is a lot of what you need, and if the people in marketing with the IRL cannot use people like Dix, Dario and Helio (not to mention Ms. Judd) then it isn't the fan who is not getting it, it is the marketing department.

[Bob Riebe]

I know some of you don't like to hear this, but the final tv-ratings are in:

http://www.ibj.com/blog/article?articleId=20274
Put the damn race back to its earlier starting time. Changing that was one of George's most moronic moves.
Still when NASCAR has its own quasi-network, its hard to beat with generic Formula Honda .

The new formula is not going to change that if they stick with the pathetic new proposal.
The gear-heads used to be the fan base and they have been crapped on royally.

[call_me_andrew]

Down 7%. The Charlotte 600 was reported to be down 8%. So I guess you could say Indy Car did better than NASCAR!.

Of course, hockey beat both of them. It is a changing world. With 200-300 channels, getting better ratings is hard for any niche sport. Like it or not, all racing is a niche sport, even NASCAR.

I read an article concerning the decline in Indy 500 ratings this year. One person commented and claimed it is "Because NASCAR is booooooooooooooooooooooooring," his spelling, not mine.

I wouldn't call racing a "niche sport". In terms of global audience Formula One is second only to soccer.

[beachbum]

I read an article concerning the decline in Indy 500 ratings this year. One person commented and claimed it is "Because NASCAR is booooooooooooooooooooooooring," his spelling, not mine.

I wouldn't call racing a "niche sport". In terms of global audience Formula One is second only to soccer.In the US, F1 is definitely a niche sport. A few years ago, the TV ratings for F1 in the US were below the IRL.

In the world of sports entertainment, I still believe racing in general is a niche. As a big race fan, it pains me to say that. But if you look at the overall ratings and interest, the popularity has been declining slowly for a long time. Sure some events still bring in good rating's numbers - Indy, the Daytona 500, but society (at least in the US) has moved form the machine and industrial age to the electronic and environmental age. It is no accident racing series are trying to portray themselves as "green" and promote the technology to suggest relevance. Even NASCAR is moving toward electronic fuel injection and "green" fuels.

The demise of racing has been talked about for decades. Read some articles from 20 years ago, and racing should have been dead by now. Racing perseveres, but has struggles to maintain the current fan base. Some racing series are almost dead or finding it hard to survive. Years ago, I raced off-road motorcycles. The series I ran had events almost every week. Now they have a handful a year due to land closures. Many local short tracks are now housing developments or shopping centers. Take away the local feeder series, and professional racing suffers.

[Mark in Oshawa]

In the US, F1 is definitely a niche sport. A few years ago, the TV ratings for F1 in the US were below the IRL.

In the world of sports entertainment, I still believe racing in general is a niche. As a big race fan, it pains me to say that. But if you look at the overall ratings and interest, the popularity has been declining slowly for a long time. Sure some events still bring in good rating's numbers - Indy, the Daytona 500, but society (at least in the US) has moved form the machine and industrial age to the electronic and environmental age. It is no accident racing series are trying to portray themselves as "green" and promote the technology to suggest relevance. Even NASCAR is moving toward electronic fuel injection and "green" fuels.

The demise of racing has been talked about for decades. Read some articles from 20 years ago, and racing should have been dead by now. Racing perseveres, but has struggles to maintain the current fan base. Some racing series are almost dead or finding it hard to survive. Years ago, I raced off-road motorcycles. The series I ran had events almost every week. Now they have a handful a year due to land closures. Many local short tracks are now housing developments or shopping centers. Take away the local feeder series, and professional racing suffers.


I think you are pessimistic a little here. Racing is a VERY large niche if it is a niche, but I will admit there is change in the industry. Tracks come and go, and have been going lately. That said, NASCAR has plateaued, I wouldn't say they have disappeared...

It is just the IRL that has lost a LOT and cant find their way back. Bob's point that the gearheads have been crapped on is very true, but it is a complex issue, and the way back will be by making a lot of incremental changes, not one large change without changing anything else.

[e2mtt]

...
The gear-heads used to be the fan base and they have been crapped on royally.

Something that has to be remembered... the gear-heads change, & there are many different kinds of them. Car culture is still huge, there are still millions of people who customize their cars, race everything from dirt oval tracks to shifter go-karts, play racing video games, restore classics, you name it.

However, if a racing series doesn't appeal to:

Fans of Formula style road course racing,
Fans of rough & tumble short track racing,
Fans of high-tech cutting edge engineering,
Fans of old fashioned back-yard engineering,
Fans of customization & ingenuity,
Fans of the local driver,
Fans of the major cars makes competing against each other,
Fans of tradition,

It probably won't have many fans, nor stay around long.

[anthonyvop]

However, if a racing series doesn't appeal to:

Fans of Formula style road course racing,
Fans of rough & tumble short track racing,
Fans of tradition,


And how do you appeal to those groups without pissing off the other?
In general fans of Formula style road racing look down on the short trackers and vice-versa.
Tradition means a lot to some people and is ancient history to others.

[Mark in Oshawa]

And how do you appeal to those groups without pissing off the other?
In general fans of Formula style road racing look down on the short trackers and vice-versa.
Tradition means a lot to some people and is ancient history to others.

They were all watching CART in the early 90's. I am a fan of all those types of racing too.....what group you going to dump me in?

[Anubis]

The Generic formula is a bigger issue than the drivers. I do agree tho, the fans want one of their own to cheer on, but you cant dumb down the world so your guys can keep up. Fans flock to races in Canada where they may have one guy in the field. Some years we had none. I think the personality of the guys at the top of the series is a lot of what you need, and if the people in marketing with the IRL cannot use people like Dix, Dario and Helio (not to mention Ms. Judd) then it isn't the fan who is not getting it, it is the marketing department.

I don't think this is exclusively an ICS issue to be honest. Look at GP2. Supposed to be the main feeder to F1, but it's virtually invisible. I'm a huge formula racing fan, but I haven't got a clue who's in GP2 at the moment, let alone how I can actually watch any of the races. For all the moaning on here, the ICS online service is pretty damn good IMO (ditto ALMS). I'd love to be able to (legally) watch GP2, WSR 3.5 and stuff like Euro3000 (or whatever it's called this week), but it's so far off radar it's ridiculous. Quite how you rectify that I don't know, as you always run the risk of marketing it to the point where you completely spoil the original message (and end up with something ghastly like Superleague). I just think in this internet age there's simply too many other distractions out there.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I don't think this is exclusively an ICS issue to be honest. Look at GP2. Supposed to be the main feeder to F1, but it's virtually invisible. I'm a huge formula racing fan, but I haven't got a clue who's in GP2 at the moment, let alone how I can actually watch any of the races. For all the moaning on here, the ICS online service is pretty damn good IMO (ditto ALMS). I'd love to be able to (legally) watch GP2, WSR 3.5 and stuff like Euro3000 (or whatever it's called this week), but it's so far off radar it's ridiculous. Quite how you rectify that I don't know, as you always run the risk of marketing it to the point where you completely spoil the original message (and end up with something ghastly like Superleague). I just think in this internet age there's simply too many other distractions out there.

Its good, and it isn't deserving to be in the same sentence as GP2 and all the Euro formulae. They are looking like they are making new changes, they seem to have new ideas. It is just going to be one tough slog....