Hamilton's Driving [Archive] - Page 2

12th May 2010, 15:29

wedge

12th May 2010, 15:53

You have quoted post #1 of this long thread, which I actually wanted to be about the stewards and how the let the racers race, and where they should draw the line. I chose Hamilton as the example because he's the one who gets closest to the limit. He seems to be a magnet these incidents.

As with Senna and Schumacher in the past, the rules are not being clearly and consistently applied.

I don't blame the stewards entirely, I put more blame on the drivers and their cabals.

Most drivers have certain standards and there those who will push those limits and happen to be top, top drivers.

The funny thing is the one-block-move rule was forced upon by the drivers who didn't like Schumi's driving tactics. Previously before Spa 2000 you could weave across the straights to block and not be penalised.

When you have a dominant driver then his rivals will want to bring him back down again.

A brilliant example is Alex Zanardi in CART. A group of drivers led by Bryan Herta didn't like Zanardi's hard driving and pressured Chief Steward Wally Dallenbach Jr to penalise Zanardi in ridiculous circumstances when it was clearly not his fault.

It was similar with Schumi with his chopping antics off the grid. His rivals didn't like it and called it dirty driving and now we have (IMHO) the stupid one-move-rule which hasn't stopped mis-timed blocks such as the Koby/Nakajima incident in Brazil last year.

And now it has been the same with Hamilton. The incident at Spa in 2008 where he supposedly didn't allow Kimi back his position and suddenly drivers ganged up against Lewis after the race.

Retro Formula 1

12th May 2010, 16:16

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/159634/1/aggressive_hamilton_needs_to_calm_down_a_bit.html

"“Lewis Hamilton needs to calm down a bit to get the most out of his potential,” the erstwhile Benetton, Ferrari, McLaren, Tyrrell and Prost man wrote in his regular column for Spanish newspaper El Pais. “For me, he is one of the top three drivers in Formula 1, on the level of Sebastian Vettel and Fernando Alonso.

“I'm not saying what was the cause of his problem on Sunday, but his history has shown that as a result of aggressive driving, he is one of the drivers who most consumes his tyres – and now that the tyres must withstand runs in excess of 50 laps, that can cause many problems.”

Fair opinion from Joan.

As someone that knew Schumacher as a young driver, who in my opinion had a similar cavalier racing style, he probably recognises both the strengths in Hamilton as well as weaknesses.

Mind you, some people like to do the Ferris wheel at Funfairs where I like the scary Rollercoaster so I hope Hamilton doesn't lose too much of his rawness. It's edge of the seat stuff but great entertainment.

fandango

12th May 2010, 16:28

I don't blame the stewards entirely, I put more blame on the drivers and their cabals.

Most drivers have certain standards and there those who will push those limits and happen to be top, top drivers.....(snipped)

But it didn't happen before Senna, did it? I could be wrong, but I don't remember that kind of criticism ever having been leveled at Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Mansell, Villeneuve or Peterson, to pick some examples off the top of my head.

But anyway, it's precisely because of these hard-driving racers that the stewards need to be above any question regarding their impartiality. In football, for example, there are some fouls that are automatic yellow cards. Taking off your shirt to celebrate a goal is one. Some think the rule is silly, but nobody accuses a ref of being hard on a player for booking in this situation.
In F1, on the other hand, two drivers get a reprimand, and this means that any other drivers who do the same thing may get nothing, or a reprimand, or a black flag. It's just not clear, and not consistent.

SGWilko

12th May 2010, 16:31

Of course, there is a change in opinion. The rim failure was due to the excessive abuse given to it by Hamilton by his overdriving the car as well as excessive and mean spirited bouncing off the curbs that caused the failure....

Happy Now? . :vader:

Does the rim get damaged by overdriving or banging curbs or the tyre?

I've only ever seen dented rims on 'white vans' in London driving up 90 degree 6" curbs and running over cyclists........

Tazio

12th May 2010, 16:31

Fair opinion from Joan.

As someone that knew Schumacher as a young driver, who in my opinion had a similar cavalier racing style, he probably recognises both the strengths in Hamilton as well as weaknesses.

Mind you, some people like to do the Ferris wheel at Funfairs where I like the scary Rollercoaster so I hope Hamilton doesn't lose too much of his rawness. It's edge of the seat stuff but great entertainment.
With all due respect Mike showed more maturity, and focus in his first race with Jordan then
"The Boss" has here-to-for IMVHO

SGWilko

12th May 2010, 16:36

With all due respect Mike showed more maturity, and focus in his first race with Jordan then
"The Boss" has here-to-for IMVHO

Maturity & Focus rules;

1. Don't burn your clutch out in your first race.
2. DOn't repeatedly drive into and take out a WDC......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDdFYLr7fDs

wedge

12th May 2010, 16:46

But it didn't happen before Senna, did it? I could be wrong, but I don't remember that kind of criticism ever having been leveled at Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Mansell, Villeneuve or Peterson, to pick some examples off the top of my head.

But anyway, it's precisely because of these hard-driving racers that the stewards need to be above any question regarding their impartiality. In football, for example, there are some fouls that are automatic yellow cards. Taking off your shirt to celebrate a goal is one. Some think the rule is silly, but nobody accuses a ref of being hard on a player for booking in this situation.
In F1, on the other hand, two drivers get a reprimand, and this means that any other drivers who do the same thing may get nothing, or a reprimand, or a black flag. It's just not clear, and not consistent.

Jack Brabham was regarded as dirty driver. He famously put two wheel off the track so his rivals could and literally eat dirt but I'm not sure if he had the same level of criticisms akin to Schumi. I do know that Graham Hill was never too happy being on the receiving end!

One person I can be sure about was Giuseppe Farina who regarded by Moss as the hardest racer he went up against but regarded as dangerous by his peers for his chopping antics.

You get inconsistancy in football as you do in F1.

Tazio

12th May 2010, 16:57

Maturity & Focus rules;

1. Don't burn your clutch out in your first race.
2. DOn't repeatedly drive into and take out a WDC......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDdFYLr7fDs

Very true Mikes clutch gave up before the first corner!
Lewis had the luxury of driving a top flight car right from the get go
The Jordan was a POS in comparison!
As for your video "The Boss" had binned his car more than once half way through his second season.

fandango

12th May 2010, 17:01

You get inconsistancy in football as you do in F1.

Yes, but that's in their judgement of the situation, not as much in the penalties they give out. It's not the same as F1, where this reprimand that Vettel and Hamilton got is the equivalent of an orange card. What does it mean? Nobody really knows....

Tazio

12th May 2010, 18:11

Maturity & Focus rules;

1. Don't burn your clutch out in your first race.
2. DOn't repeatedly drive into and take out a WDC......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDdFYLr7fDs

BTW "The Boss " did something to the WDC even more agreigis
(depending upon how you view it) half way through his second season?

xnCsG0DlXkU&feature=related

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00698/sport-graphics-2008_698945a.jpg

Now just for the record I like LH, and admire his talent.
After Fred retires I look forward to him sliding over to "The Scuds"
Perhaps by then he will have matured and lost a little of his rough edges!

Mia 01

12th May 2010, 19:47

If Lewis continious being aggressive and ruthless this year, I´m afraid he will fade away in the championship.

Mia 01

12th May 2010, 21:20

Lewis will try very hard this wekeend, and I´m sorry to say that it is a 50/50 chance that he will bin it. But ofcourse he can get lucky.

Tazio

13th May 2010, 00:44

Lewis will try very hard this wekeend, and I´m sorry to say that it is a 50/50 chance that he will bin it. But ofcourse he can get lucky.If "The Boss" qualifies GP1 he will most likely win like he was taking a leisurely Sunday drive.
Unless Vettel ploughs into him behind the safety car :p

markabilly

13th May 2010, 02:11

Does the rim get damaged by overdriving or banging curbs or the tyre?

I've only ever seen dented rims on 'white vans' in London driving up 90 degree 6" curbs and running over cyclists........

You obviously ain't seen my son drive....boy never hits nothing but those wheels sure get squared off pretty quick for some reason i cant figure out......makes the ride rather lumpy

besides i was only funning you guys...I never said anything about hamilton blowing up his tire, but the temptation was too much to resist when Henners issued his challenge with this rim stuff changing the hollering...valve was the only one wearing bs goggles

14th May 2010, 19:02

Bagwan

14th May 2010, 23:44

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/motorsport/f1news/2010/05/14/this-circuit-is-a-ball-breaker-115875-22257330/

"I want to be remembered as a fair driver, a clean driver, one who always drove with his heart, who battled through thick and thin to score the points and the championships I will hopefully earn."

Asked whether he was intent that his character was not blighted like Schumacher's, he added: "Absolutely.

"When I think about history, it is not just about me, it is about how my family raised me, where we came from.

"For that to be tainted by something like that would devastate me."

A bit late for that, isn't it.

Could you say these words of Hamilton's are deliberate , but instinctual ?

He's packed a lot of controversy into a short career , so far .

His words make me wonder if his team has him believing he's squeeky-clean , or has him believing he can snow the racing public into believing that he is .

He certainly has no problem with throwing Michael under the bus .

He should shut his hole .
He does himself no favours when he speaks .

markabilly

15th May 2010, 00:38

Could you say these words of Hamilton's are deliberate , but instinctual ?

He's packed a lot of controversy into a short career , so far .

His words make me wonder if his team has him believing he's squeeky-clean , or has him believing he can snow the racing public into believing that he is .

He certainly has no problem with throwing Michael under the bus .

He should shut his hole .
He does himself no favours when he speaks .
he should have learned that BEFORE his first race at Monaco...but no....

Mia 01

15th May 2010, 08:42

He he he. Rain in Monaco - Qualification - Lewis.

I´m thrilled.

Will he settle for a lower spot?

Valve Bounce

15th May 2010, 11:41

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/motorsport/f1news/2010/05/14/this-circuit-is-a-ball-breaker-115875-22257330/

"I want to be remembered as a fair driver, a clean driver, one who always drove with his heart, who battled through thick and thin to score the points and the championships I will hopefully earn."

Asked whether he was intent that his character was not blighted like Schumacher's, he added: "Absolutely.

"When I think about history, it is not just about me, it is about how my family raised me, where we came from.

"For that to be tainted by something like that would devastate me."

A bit late for that, isn't it.

Ah! the guy must have just visited the Vatican and have been impressed by the paintings on ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. All those naked little angels flying around.

SGWilko

15th May 2010, 16:25

It appears the rim failure was as a result of a faulty wheel nut.

Valve Bounce

15th May 2010, 17:50

The nut holding the steering wheel? :D

Mia 01

17th May 2010, 10:03

I think Lewis took a leaf out of Jensons book this wekeend!

Classy drive Lewis.

fandango

17th May 2010, 10:36

Yeah, no weird incidents this race. Nothing for the stewards to inquire about. How long before the conspiracy theory begins? I mean, it's so hard to imagine that in a team as supposedly supremely professional as McLaren that a stopper could be overlooked in the world champion's car, causing it to overheat and said world champion to get zero points from the race. There couldn't be any question of sabotage, could there? (evil grin, continue stirring cauldron....)

SGWilko

17th May 2010, 10:39

Saint Devote

17th May 2010, 11:08

Lewis has a clean sheet at Monaco and always seems to do well there. As he say's its his favourite track. :)

As in 2009?

wedge

17th May 2010, 13:36

What the hell?!

Lewy shoots his mouth mid race about the car and even the bashers have (so far) kept schtum!

MrJan

17th May 2010, 14:04

What the hell?!

Lewy shoots his mouth mid race about the car and even the bashers have (so far) kept schtum!

Not even halfway and his brakes were fading. He was childish again but I think that most people understood his frustration enough. If McLaren can't source brakes that last 35 laps then they need to seriously look at what they're doing wrong.

Bagwan

17th May 2010, 14:51

I know quite amazing... I think its because people have come to realise that all the drivers are guilty of shouting down the radio or lobbing their steering wheels under someone elses car once in a while.. :p

People have come to realize that he says stupid $hit every race , and , after a while , it becomes routine and boring ....but , if you insist .

Jensen empathized , and Lewis burned .

The spoiled little jerk won't be the team favourite for long with this degree of disparate reactions from the two drivers .
That's after Jensen got smacked with a really stupid mistake by the team , and when the entire team was then focussed on Hamilton .
I guess he figured it would be the right time to slag them on air because they would all be listening , not bothering with that pea under his mattress .

Rubinho tossing a fit does not excuse Lewis , either .
But at least Lewis didn't endanger anything but his reputation in the garage this time , unlike idiot Barrichello .

Shut the hell up and drive is my best advice .

How's that , kids ?

Mia 01

17th May 2010, 15:06

OK classy Jenson drive this race as I mentioned above. You bagged some points this race Lewis, but still, 11 points short of Jenson.

The season is still long ofcourse.

Bagwan

17th May 2010, 15:19

It might be boring but you guys just love to talk about it.. ;)

I think its rather dull and boring that people will happily ignore the other comments drivers make simply to bash Lewis. Still it seems to be contributing to his reputation of being the most popular and talked about F1 driver.. :)

Both you and Lewis are very entertaining .

How about a comment on how you think the two different approaches to how they treat thier team will affect the atmosphere in the garage , or are you looking to duck that issue for Lewis here ?

I will slag anyone who gets paid a fat wad and turns on his team .

You made a flip comment , and I replied .

Lewis doesn't want to taint his rep , he says , and then burns the team in front of the world .
Bad form .

MrJan

17th May 2010, 15:25

I wouldn't say he was childish as such, he was having an unnecessary rant like many drivers out there in the heat of the moment. I certainly understood his frustration when one minute he's being told he's catching the guy in front and then next he's being told his brakes are fading. Could it have something to do with the new rim design and lack of cooling maybe? Just a wild stab in the dark.

It amazes me on this forum however when people get heated over someone disagreeing with them, but expect an F1 driver in an environment they have no experience of, to keep cool in the heat of battle. Thats not a dig at you Mr Jan btw.. :)

I accept the odd whinge but he does it most races now and it's showing a lack of class. Take Button (who I don't rate as much) who has spent years in a tail end car but has always remained dignified about it. Lewis should take some 'man' lessons from Jense.

SGWilko

17th May 2010, 17:49

Both you and Lewis are very entertaining .

How about a comment on how you think the two different approaches to how they treat thier team will affect the atmosphere in the garage , or are you looking to duck that issue for Lewis here ?

I will slag anyone who gets paid a fat wad and turns on his team .

You made a flip comment , and I replied .

Lewis doesn't want to taint his rep , he says , and then burns the team in front of the world .
Bad form .

No different to Button moaning down the line at Ross last year about how bad the car was....

It's a non issue that you find entertaining.

Wilco out Baggy.

SGWilko

17th May 2010, 17:51

Not even halfway and his brakes were fading. He was childish again but I think that most people understood his frustration enough. If McLaren can't source brakes that last 35 laps then they need to seriously look at what they're doing wrong.

Eh, the radio message was to look after the brakes as wear rate was high, not fading. Your advice would be better aimed at the Red Bulls.....

Bagwan

17th May 2010, 18:17

Well it might cause tension between each side of the garage but both Jenson and Lewis are being highly professional around one another. Lewis getting heated with his engineer is hardly going to wind Jenson up and its not as though he has done a Schumacher and criticized his teammate to the press yet. I think so far they have both showed the other teams how to behave under the strain oif both being highly competitive.

The only people its causing tension for at the moment are the non Mclaren fans, or so it seems.. :)

I wasn't intimating that Jensen would be wound up .
Far from it , really .

Lewis was angry he didn't have a car that could stand the punishment , and blamed the team , clearly .
Button had his whole afternoon ruined by a silly mistake , and took it with dignity , losing with the team .

And , again , what someone else did has no relevence .

The way Lewis reacted was in stark contrast to Button .

SGWilko

17th May 2010, 18:19

Lewis was angry he didn't have a car that could stand the punishment , and blamed the team

well, no point in blaming British Gas I suppose....

SGWilko

17th May 2010, 18:23

Button had his whole afternoon ruined by a silly mistake , and took it with dignity , losing with the team .

Trouble is, we were not graced with any radio transmissions from Button, were we, so who knows what was said. I don't imagine it was;

JB 'I say chaps, rather hot in the rear today, wht what'
McLaren Team 'sit told old bean, It'll be all tickety boo once the SC pulls in'
JB 'right oh, please pass my kind regards onto that kind soul that blocked the radiator, proper derring do indeed'

Bagwan

17th May 2010, 18:23

No different to Button moaning down the line at Ross last year about how bad the car was....

It's a non issue that you find entertaining.

Wilco out Baggy.

You and the other "Lewfosi" will find the "non-issue" a problem before too long if your man doesn't shut up and drive .

Both are like the shoe in a sense , but in different ways .

Ones sees himself larger than the sport , and the other sees himself a part of it .
One sees the red mist and one gets all misty .

SGWilko

17th May 2010, 18:27

You and the other "Lewfosi" will find the "non-issue" a problem before too long if your man doesn't shut up and drive .

Both are like the shoe in a sense , but in different ways .

Ones sees himself larger than the sport , and the other sees himself a part of it .
One sees the red mist and one gets all misty .

Nowt wrong with Lewis's driving. Many of his overtakes this year have reminded me of the ballsy all out style of 'Il Leone'

Yours, (red) misty eyed of Maidstone....

MrJan

17th May 2010, 18:32

Eh, the radio message was to look after the brakes as wear rate was high, not fading. Your advice would be better aimed at the Red Bulls.....

Either way he was having problems with the brakes less than halfway through the GP! Do you actually think that is acceptable?

Bagwan

17th May 2010, 18:33

Nowt wrong with Lewis's driving. Many of his overtakes this year have reminded me of the ballsy all out style 'Il Leone'

Yours, (red) misty eyed of Maidstone....

Nowt wrong , as long as it's on track , and not in the pits .

No question that he is fast .

gloomyDAY

17th May 2010, 18:35

Either way he was having problems with the brakes less than halfway through the GP! Do you actually think that is acceptable?More like a product defect, not driver ineptness.

Jag_Warrior

17th May 2010, 19:36

Trouble is, we were not graced with any radio transmissions from Button, were we, so who knows what was said. I don't imagine it was;

JB 'I say chaps, rather hot in the rear today, wht what'
McLaren Team 'sit told old bean, It'll be all tickety boo once the SC pulls in'
JB 'right oh, please pass my kind regards onto that kind soul that blocked the radiator, proper derring do indeed'

Excellent! :rotflmao:

Jag_Warrior

17th May 2010, 19:57

Well it might cause tension between each side of the garage but both Jenson and Lewis are being highly professional around one another. Lewis getting heated with his engineer is hardly going to wind Jenson up and its not as though he has done a Schumacher and criticized his teammate to the press yet. I think so far they have both showed the other teams how to behave under the strain oif both being highly competitive.

The only people its causing tension for at the moment are the non Mclaren fans, or so it seems.. :)

I agree with this.

While I think Lewis does have to be more careful in how he treats the team publicly, we also have to remember that we (as fans) don't get even 1/10th of 1% of the communication and interaction he has with the team.

Personally, I'd be happy to see more drivers displaying some amount of spirit and passion. Since Alesi, Berger, Irvine and certain others retired, these guys have become (mostly) a group of politically correct, corporate robots that sound like they're reading a speech prepared by some PR type. And that's what I find to be boring. So while it wouldn't be wise to alienate the team with too much ranting & raving, I see nothing wrong with showing flashes of fire in the right circumstances.

Tazio

17th May 2010, 20:12

Nowt wrong with Lewis's driving. Many of his overtakes this year have reminded me of the ballsy all out style of 'Il Leone'

Yours, (red) misty eyed of Maidstone....Blow me, thats Codswallop to this tifosi. Il Leone/ Nige he is a propper ****er, and bob's your uncle!

SGWilko

17th May 2010, 20:20

Blow me, thats Codswallop to this tifosi. Il Leone/ Nige he is a propper ****er, and bob's your uncle!

Indeed, but he was a ****er that could drive the nuts off a car.

17th May 2010, 20:27

Indeed, but he was a ****er that could drive the nuts off a car.

And was utterly thrashed by somebody with brains and finesse in 1990.

Which proves there was something fundamentally wrong with his style of driving, and ergo, that of Hamilton, since you make the comparison between Mansell and Hamilton.

So thanks for proving that.

SGWilko

17th May 2010, 20:31

And was utterly thrashed by somebody with brains and finesse in 1990.

Which proves there was something fundamentally wrong with his style of driving, and ergo, that of Hamilton, since you make the comparison between Mansell and Hamilton.

So thanks for proving that.

Evening Tamb.

Tazio

17th May 2010, 20:39

Indeed, but he was a ****er that could drive the nuts off a car.

Yours, (red) misty eyed of Maidstone.....
That what got me right knackered

Cheers Tamb'

SGWilko

17th May 2010, 20:45

That what got me right knackered

Cheers Tamb'

Lets hope they dont get your left knackered as well.......

Bottoms up.

Tazio

17th May 2010, 20:55

Lets hope they dont get your left knackered as well.......

Bottoms up.I think I'll belt up.
a bit of a waffle this is.
Ta

SGWilko

17th May 2010, 20:57

I think I'll belt up.
a bit of a waffle this is.
Ta

Don't forget the maple syrup.

Chin chin.

Mia 01

17th May 2010, 21:23

I wasn't intimating that Jensen would be wound up .
Far from it , really .

Lewis was angry he didn't have a car that could stand the punishment , and blamed the team , clearly .
Button had his whole afternoon ruined by a silly mistake , and took it with dignity , losing with the team .

And , again , what someone else did has no relevence .

The way Lewis reacted was in stark contrast to Button .

Agreed!

Another leaf Lewis should take out of Jensons book, it will pay off.

donKey jote

17th May 2010, 21:39

Indeed, but he was a ****er that could drive the nuts off a car.

bit like Hamilton :up:

oh no sorry I thought you meant wheelnuts :p : :dozey:

race_director

17th May 2010, 22:36

I agree with this.

While I think Lewis does have to be more careful in how he treats the team publicly, we also have to remember that we (as fans) don't get even 1/10th of 1% of the communication and interaction he has with the team.

Personally, I'd be happy to see more drivers displaying some amount of spirit and passion. Since Alesi, Berger, Irvine and certain others retired, these guys have become (mostly) a group of politically correct, corporate robots that sound like they're reading a speech prepared by some PR type. And that's what I find to be boring. So while it wouldn't be wise to alienate the team with too much ranting & raving, I see nothing wrong with showing flashes of fire in the right circumstances.

wait for things to go wrong in ferrari for alonso. the volcano will explode

race_director

17th May 2010, 22:37

bit like Hamilton :up:

oh no sorry I thought you meant wheelnuts :p : :dozey:

dont forget the balls of steel :)

Bagwan

17th May 2010, 23:28

Totally different personalities Bagwan thats all I can say. I'm not suggesting there's an acceptable character template for these guys to fit into, and we'll no doubt see situations handled differently by both drivers. Button showed after qualifying that he can be critical of a fellow driver and can lose his cool ocassionally, but thats a glimpse at the passion these guys have when all they want to do is win. Lewis may speak with his heart instead of his head, but this is also a characteristic which often makes him superior to Button on track. Button is alot more calculating and this often proves a worthy quality. It seems we have two characters and one expectation.. :)

Both are the red shoe , in different ways .

One sees the red mist on track and in the paddock , throwing anyone under the bus to save himself .
The other stays late with the crew , taking care not to burn bridges .

I would imagine , in the same circumstance , Jensen , rather than spitting venom , would be asking what he could do with brake bias to help .

You see , henners , I see Lewis as well rattled already , judging from how frantically he reacted , even though he was comfortable knowing he would be getting points when Button wouldn't .
The best way for his team mate to get under his skin right now , would be to remain calm , and talk about his title hopes . I don't think Lewis ever thought , even for a moment , that Jensen would get close to his own points tally , let alone lead him .

SGWilko

18th May 2010, 08:39

I get the impression from your posts that you have a keen dislike for Lewis

JV all the way for Baggy henners. Which is interesting, because JB was 'the enemy' in the BAR years I recall.....

Mia 01

18th May 2010, 09:40

Is Lewis in terms with his chief engineer, Andy?

Well, someone have to nurse him around the track it seems. Fastest laps are important but so are brakes.

Nothing to be a shame of, look at Massa.

SGWilko

18th May 2010, 10:10

fandango

18th May 2010, 12:07

I don't know about anyone else, but I often shout at the wife if I take a wrong turn....

.....and that's just pulling off the drive! :laugh:

Consider the stress - both physical and mental, the concentration and the need to get it all right, lap after lap, while changing brake bias, twisting dials, talking and listening over the radio; I'd probably get a little bit narky every once in a while.

Cut the guys some slack, they ALL do a good job.

:up:

I would put it in the same category as Alonso's hand waving while racing for position. It's just people having a rant, which really is understandable now and again.

In fact, it's ironic that many people on this forum and others don't apply the same standards of perfection to their own posting as they expect from these drivers.

MrJan

18th May 2010, 12:15

Massa is the only driver I can remember where his engineer actually tells him where to go faster and how to do it. Lewis certainly doesn't rely on his team to tell him how to go faster in certain sectors on a race track.

Yeah, that's embarrassing. When he was told in Barca that he needed better exit speed I was cringing. If a racing driver can't work out how to line up a pass then he really should be considering another career.

fandango

18th May 2010, 12:23

Yeah, that's embarrassing. When he was told in Barca that he needed better exit speed I was cringing. If a racing driver can't work out how to line up a pass then he really should be considering another career.

I disagree. If the thing works, why knock it? It's motivational, and we all do it shouting at the TV. His career finishes when he fails to make the pass.

(Btw, the Spanish GP was in Barcelona. "Barça" is a football club, not the city. Ignore that if you want, just one of my pet hates when people get it wrong)

MrJan

18th May 2010, 12:34

I disagree. If the thing works, why knock it? It's motivational, and we all do it shouting at the TV. His career finishes when he fails to make the pass.

(Btw, the Spanish GP was in Barcelona. "Barça" is a football club, not the city. Ignore that if you want, just one of my pet hates when people get it wrong)

I couldn't be bothered to type the whole word :p :

I was being OTT but it's not good that Massa needs to be told how to race properly after all these years in the sport.

Bagwan

18th May 2010, 12:42

I get the impression from your posts that you have a keen dislike for Lewis and thats fair enough, but I think you under estimate him quite considerably. Lewis has never been a turn up and drive sort of guy and you'll find just like Button, he'll work with his engineers late into the night. The BBC ran a series of video's last season where his work ethic was displayed, and one of the mechanics said he actually drives them mad because he wants to know everything. So don't state that there is a difference that Button is the workaholic and Lewis is simply the cry baby who puts in little effort, because I've seen otherwise. He may not be as intelligent or experienced in setup as Jenson, but he's in his 4th season as opposed to his 10th.

Also in 2008 at Silverstone I was in the Mclaren garage briefly during qualifying and witnessed how the team react with him, and its almost a lads atmosphere. I don't think these people are as weak minded as some here like to portray, and would be offended by a frustrated driver on a radio. It makes me laugh to be honest that forumers over emphasize an audio snippet during a race, and feel they can decide just how it is affecting a relationship within a team. Come on, its a cut throat industry Bagwan and these guys are top engineers with thick skins. They deal with frustration more often than jubilation, and I'm pretty sure they don't burst into tears everytime one of their colleagues asks a heated question. ;)

Lastly I feel differently about Lewis being "rattled", and its interesting that you've brought that up. Out of the two drivers, I've noticed Button has seemed the most downtrodden over the last two races and even the BBC commentators have said how chilled out Lewis has appeared in comparison. Button is leading Lewis in the championship yes, but he knows his lead would have disappeared had Lewis not had mechanical failure in Spain, and his performance has been eclipsed in the last two rounds. Button had a dream start at Mclaren which surprised everybody, but as the season progesses and more updates are introduced to the car, we all know which driver is the best at adaptation. :)

You are brilliant .
You figured out that I dislike Lewis .

Here my analysis of his character :
Lewis drives very well , but he has been told , for a very long time , that he's championship material , on a different plane to the others , and thus , has little respect for them .
When he , or his car , is challenged by others seen in his eyes to be inferior , he has the tendency to panic .
When his integrity is challenged , he becomes totally un-glued .

You , as a card carrying Lewfoso , see reasons for his exploits in every case , whereas I , a guy with no real favourite on the grid any more , see the overview , and the trail of no-nos LewLew leaves behind him .

I had no issues with how he drove this race , but rather with what he said .

And I would imagine , if there had been a juicier radio snippet from Button in the engine roasting stage of the race for him , we would have heard it .
We hear very few transmissions . The broadcast director would choose the most relevent to the moments , and a rant from Button would have been really apt , at the time .
It's not as though we get them in real time either , so a quick check back would have easily found it if it were there .

Perhaps the director likes Button more than Hamilton .

SGWilko

18th May 2010, 12:45

whereas I , a guy with no real favourite on the grid any more.

I see what you did there - very clever.

Bagwan

18th May 2010, 12:49

:up:

I would put it in the same category as Alonso's hand waving while racing for position. It's just people having a rant, which really is understandable now and again.

In fact, it's ironic that many people on this forum and others don't apply the same standards of perfection to their own posting as they expect from these drivers.

He was frustrated , so he showed his anger at the other driver .
He didn't wave at him to let him by .

That's a little different to throwing the team under the bus .

By the way , are you grouping me into those "many people" ?

Bagwan

18th May 2010, 12:51

I see what you did there - very clever.

Thanks for calling me very clever .
What did I do ?

Bagwan

18th May 2010, 12:54

I had forgotten about Barca and the one which stuck in my mind was Australia when Smedley was telling Felipe to take a wider line and accelerate quicker before entering the main straight. I'm sure it is motivational to the driver but its a very rare thing in modern F1. I remember Sato had his race engineer talk him through the start and told him which side to attack into the first corner from, and Brundle was speechless. Its not something we don't see often but each to their own I suppose and if it works who are we to judge? :)

Though it of little relevence here , my opinion of Felipe comes from meeting him in '04 in Montreal .
He is a meek little flower , that needs coddling to bloom .

Again , though , not relevent , as this is about Lewis .

SGWilko

18th May 2010, 12:59

Thanks for calling me very clever .
What did I do ?

Well, that wasn't too clever was it. ;)

SGWilko

18th May 2010, 13:07

I think the difference is I've followed his career for a long time and have met him, whereas you have not (or so it suggests). You are right he has been told for a long time that he is championship material and he has proved his advisors right on that very subject. Self belief is something every driver should have and how that channel that is their choice. Vettel is openly cocky, and even more so than Hamilton, but often escapes criticism, largely because he is yet to prove himself as championship material IMO. I like a driver who is arrogant in his own ability and who is willing to take risks on track, much like the two mentioned. Hamilton is not yet a complete package, but he's definately the most exciting thing to hit F1 in the last decade IMO.

This is my opinion at the end of the day, and you can try to belittle me and direct digs at me all you like, but its not going to change my opinion. Notice how I don't insult you with any of my responses. I also don't see anything impartial about your above post at all, and to have such a strong opinion of a driver must mean you have a favourite somewhere down the line.

Don't forget to pass on your gratitude henners - he called you brilliant! :D

SGWilko

18th May 2010, 13:22

my opinion of Felipe comes from meeting him in '04 in Montreal .

Did you have a pen ready for the liason, or did he have one?

Unlike your friend Sato.......

ArrowsFA1

18th May 2010, 13:27

I dread to think what would happen if Hamilton ever steps out of his car and punches a marshall

DpZnE7gj0gY

Or remonstrates with an official during a race in the middle of the pitlane before abandoning his car and storming off

Vn45t9V4S7k

Bagwan

18th May 2010, 17:00

Did you have a pen ready for the liason, or did he have one?

Unlike your friend Sato.......

Dinner with he and Timo , clever boy .

I am evil Homer

18th May 2010, 17:05

I think the difference is I've followed his career for a long time and have met him, whereas you have not (or so it suggests). You are right he has been told for a long time that he is championship material and he has proved his advisors right on that very subject. Self belief is something every driver should have and how they channel that is their choice. Vettel is openly cocky, and even more so than Hamilton, but often escapes criticism, largely because he is yet to prove himself as championship material IMO. I like a driver who is arrogant in his own ability and who is willing to take risks on track, much like the two mentioned. Hamilton is not yet a complete package, but he's definately the most exciting thing to hit F1 in the last decade IMO.

This is my opinion at the end of the day, and you can try to belittle me and direct digs at me all you like, but its not going to change my opinion. Notice how I don't insult you with any of my responses. I also don't see anything impartial about your above post at all, and to have such a strong opinion of a driver must mean you have a favourite somewhere down the line.

Yeah I mean quite aside from winning GP2, coming second in his rookie F1season and then winning it the following year. Can't imagine why he wouldn't feel a little bit like he has talented compared to others who don't even have the same credentials in lower formulae.

Bagwan

18th May 2010, 17:08

I think the difference is I've followed his career for a long time and have met him, whereas you have not (or so it suggests). You are right he has been told for a long time that he is championship material and he has proved his advisors right on that very subject. Self belief is something every driver should have and how they channel that is their choice. Vettel is openly cocky, and even more so than Hamilton, but often escapes criticism, largely because he is yet to prove himself as championship material IMO. I like a driver who is arrogant in his own ability and who is willing to take risks on track, much like the two mentioned. Hamilton is not yet a complete package, but he's definately the most exciting thing to hit F1 in the last decade IMO.

This is my opinion at the end of the day, and you can try to belittle me and direct digs at me all you like, but its not going to change my opinion. Notice how I don't insult you with any of my responses. I also don't see anything impartial about your above post at all, and to have such a strong opinion of a driver must mean you have a favourite somewhere down the line.

You've not likely met Charles Manson , but you likely have an opinion on whether you'd have him over for tea .

Belief in oneself does not make one arrogant .

I guess , in the end , we will have to wait and see how the inter-team battle works out here , but I expect things to deteriorate further .

Have you ever met Dave Ryan ?

SGWilko

18th May 2010, 17:10

Dinner with he and Timo , clever boy .

Oh, you ate with your pen? Knife and fork just not the ticket....? :D

race_director

18th May 2010, 17:15

Bagwan

18th May 2010, 17:17

Oh, you ate with your pen? Knife and fork just not the ticket....? :D

Sorry for the confusion , but it was Felipe and Timo I had dinner with .

My pen issue was with Taku in the pit lane .

SGWilko

18th May 2010, 17:20

Sorry for the confusion , but it was Felipe and Timo I had dinner with .

My pen issue was with Taku in the pit lane .

Taku must have been busy....

How was the grub?

Bagwan

18th May 2010, 17:20

amazing clips, please start a thread and post what ever u have like this bro

Yes , Arrows , post them somewhere relevent .

Since neither had the driver slagging the team , neither fits .

SGWilko

18th May 2010, 17:21

Yes , Arrows , post them somewhere relevent .

Since neither had the driver slagging the team , neither fits .

Hey, Arrows - I may just have a suggestion as to where to post em..... :D

SGWilko

18th May 2010, 17:26

I've been about 20 feet away from Dave Ryan but not met him as such. What has that got to do with the price of fish though????

Isn't he a fishmonger now?

Bagwan

18th May 2010, 17:49

I've been about 20 feet away from Dave Ryan but not met him as such. What has that got to do with the price of fish though????

I was just wondering if he would have the same opinion as you or I , being one who's a fishmonger now .

Mia 01

18th May 2010, 18:16

I see what you did there - very clever.

As far as I see it, Bagwan is clever.

Bagwan

18th May 2010, 18:26

As far as I see it, Bagwan is clever.

Well , obviously , you are also very clever , Mia .

Tazio

18th May 2010, 18:36

I dread

I dread to think what were all going to do if dinosaurs re-inhabit our planet! ;)

http://vodpod.com/watch/3432622-youtube-godzilla-music-video

SGWilko

19th May 2010, 11:35

I dread to think what were all going to do if dinosaurs re-inhabit our planet! ;)

http://vodpod.com/watch/3432622-youtube-godzilla-music-video

There are already dinosaurs on this planet. I will start by suggesting the FIA is a dinosaur.....

SGWilko

19th May 2010, 11:36

Well , obviously , you are also very clever , Mia .

Get a room you two.... ;)

Tazio

19th May 2010, 15:33

There are already dinosaurs on this planet. I will start by suggesting the FIA is a dinosaur.....I suggest you missed the allegory I presented about A'Fa1's videos of F1 Bum fights from another era!
Chin Chin

Mia 01

21st May 2010, 12:02

Lewis have been in the team since the start, and still Jenson leds him with 11 points.

Lewis is underperforming.

airshifter

21st May 2010, 21:02

If Lewis had not suffered wheel failure in Spain in the closing two laps, he would be leading Jenson by 9 points at this stage.. Peaks and troughs my friend.. ;)

Don't be coming up with facts when you could easily accuse that it was a tire failure do to overdriving, or a wheel failure do to the abuse of a car thrasher!

Through in all fairness, Jenson has now had a car failure beyond his control... even if it did look like he would finish out of the points based on qualification.

Mia 01

24th June 2010, 18:55

Driving, ha, stopping on track, is it a habit.

Daniel

24th June 2010, 18:57

Driving, ha, stopping on track, is it a habit.
What is your problem with Hamilton? You've made three almost identical posts in three threads about Hamilton. Give it a break, we know you hate him now give up!

Hondo

24th June 2010, 20:32

If Lewis had not suffered wheel failure in Spain in the closing two laps, he would be leading Jenson by 9 points at this stage.. Peaks and troughs my friend.. ;)

If "If" were syhph, we'd all be at the clinic getting shots.

ArrowsFA1

25th June 2010, 10:27

Yes , Arrows , post them somewhere relevent .

Since neither had the driver slagging the team , neither fits .
They fit because you raised the question of Hamilton's temperament:

You figured out that I dislike Lewis...When he , or his car , is challenged by others seen in his eyes to be inferior , he has the tendency to panic. When his integrity is challenged , he becomes totally un-glued.
I agree that neither shows a driver "slagging the team", but both show an expression of temperament by a driver. You might know the story of the 1977 Canadian GP where Hunt's team-mate, Jochen Mass, was being lapped by the two leaders - Andretti and Hunt. Andretti had already taken to the grass to avoid Mass and lost the lead to Hunt as a result, but when James came to lap Jochen there was a "misunderstanding" and James ended up in the catch fencing and out of the race.

Now had there been the sophisticated team-driver radio comms in 1977 that we have now then you can imagine the conversation within McLaren!!! You might have even described Hunt as "slagging the team" for not telling Mass to get the hell out of the way...if we'd had the opportunity to hear the radio communications then.

My point in showing those clips was twofold. 1) To illustrate that Hamilton is not unique in expressing his frustration; and 2) given the level of criticism Hamilton receives for his comments over the team radio I dread to think what grief he would get if he ever expressed his temperament by thumping an official as James Hunt did.

Either way, it's an expression of temperament in the heat of the moment.