BTCC on ITV

[AndySpeed]

Hi folks,

Being trackside yesterday and without Sky+ or anything like that I'm wondering how I can catch the action on TV again? Ideally I'd like to watch the races in full online or something, like last year, but I'm not sure if ITV are doing this again?

Failing that I need to watch the races in some form so is anyone aware of a highlights show?

Cheers,

Andy

[tisme]

All listed in your local TV paper.. Both ITV1 & ITV4

[mattie007]

Think its on ITV 4 tomorrow afternoon at 1:30.

[Allyc85]

All listed in your local TV paper.. Both ITV1 & ITV4

Or a more helpful reply..

http://www.btcc.net/html/tvtimetable.php

[AndySpeed]

All listed in your local TV paper.. Both ITV1 & ITV4

Come on, I'm too lazy for that.

Thanks Ally.

[tisme]

Come on, I'm too lazy for that.

Thanks Ally.
The reason I posted that is because some area's don't have the same programme listings....

[Mark]

Highlights in the middle of the night almost a week later? Dear me.

[Alfa Fan]

I have my doubts that the TV deal is going to be renewed at the end of this year. Personally I am expecting a return to the BBC.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

I have my doubts that the TV deal is going to be renewed at the end of this year. Personally I am expecting a return to the BBC.

Expecting or hoping?

I can't help thinking if the BBC had the BTCC Richard Hammond would be the commentator. :\

[Alfa Fan]

ITVs new bosses apparently have very little interest in motorsport. It is also now the only motorsport they cover having dropped/lost F1, WRC, GP2, WTCC, BSB and a number of other events they used to broadcast.

The BTCC coverage would fit in well with the F1 programs, and if they do regain the rights to the BTCC I would expect the coverage to be reduced in terms of air time but perhaps integrated into the F1 coverage some way.

I would be surprised if ITV renewed the deal to show the BTCC after this year but I don't claim to have any insider knowledge on the matter.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

If ITV lose it I reckon it would go to Dave or somewhere like that.

[Alfa Fan]

This isn't the WRC you know! :p :

[christophulus]

I'd be surprised if ITV renewed the deal, while they do a decent job of it the BTCC is a shadow of its former self. To be honest, I'd be happy just watching highlights of the three races on BBC or whatever, the full day coverage is nice but not essential.

I'd be interested to see the viewing figures.

[Alfa Fan]

For the BTCC they are under 500,000 I believe, and for the WRC under 100,000 for reference.

[DazzlaF1]

ITVs new bosses apparently have very little interest in motorsport. It is also now the only motorsport they cover having dropped/lost F1, WRC, GP2, WTCC, BSB and a number of other events they used to broadcast.

The BTCC coverage would fit in well with the F1 programs, and if they do regain the rights to the BTCC I would expect the coverage to be reduced in terms of air time but perhaps integrated into the F1 coverage some way.

I would be surprised if ITV renewed the deal to show the BTCC after this year but I don't claim to have any insider knowledge on the matter.

At the moment the ITV bosses seeom only interested in beefing up their Football coverage, but seeing that the BTCC gets fantastic viewing figures despite being on ITV4, id think ITV would be a bit daft to get rid of it.

If the BBC get it again and they return to the highlights package, just watch the fanbase plummet.

[Alfa Fan]

If the BBC get it again and they return to the highlights package, just watch the fanbase plummet.

Why? A well turned out highlights program like BHP did in the 90s did the series no harm at all.

[inimitablestoo]

Incidentally, British Superbikes dropped? Better tell someone, they're in the Radio Times tomorrow on ITV4 and repeated overnight Saturday on ITV1...

[Captain VXR]

Why? A well turned out highlights program like BHP did in the 90s did the series no harm at all.

I personally find highlights unexciting as everything has already happened so id be less motivated to watch them

[Superdave08]

I think the ITV4 full day event is awesome and I would be gutted if it went!

To be honest I dont think it will, think how many itvs there is ie 1,2,3 & 4 they got to fill it with something and a slot on ITV4 aint gonna bother them is it?

HOT TIP for people with Iphones..... I just found a website called iphone tv catch up (google it) and you can watch tv live for when you are trackside

(also available on the web with laptop and mobile broadband dongle)

[tintin]

ITVs new bosses apparently have very little interest in motorsport. It is also now the only motorsport they cover having dropped/lost F1, WRC, GP2, WTCC, BSB and a number of other events they used to broadcast.


...except ITV still shows BSB, and WTCC, and the TT, and Goodwood Festival of Speed and Revival.

And there are new championships coming to ITV this season.
So the BTCC is far from being the only motorsport on the channel.



At the moment the ITV bosses seeom only interested in beefing up their Football coverage, but seeing that the BTCC gets fantastic viewing figures despite being on ITV4, id think ITV would be a bit daft to get rid of it.


ITV is more than just football - cricket, rugby, cycling, motorsport on two and four wheels, boxing, and tennis.

[tintin]

Hi folks,

Being trackside yesterday and without Sky+ or anything like that I'm wondering how I can catch the action on TV again? Ideally I'd like to watch the races in full online or something, like last year, but I'm not sure if ITV are doing this again?

Failing that I need to watch the races in some form so is anyone aware of a highlights show?

Cheers,

Andy

itv.com/touringcars

[jim2wheels]

For the BTCC they are under 500,000 I believe, and for the WRC under 100,000 for reference.


I have done the TV evaluation reports for Alan Gow for the last 6 years, and i can tell you the figures are worse than that.

Live rarely gets past 250,000 viewers (sub 150 at its least watched event), highlights averages around 65-80,000. From my understanding ITV signed a new 3 year deal last year.

[Mark]

Live rarely gets past 250,000 viewers (sub 150 at its least watched event), highlights averages around 65-80,000. From my understanding ITV signed a new 3 year deal last year.

By any measure, that's dire!

[AndyRAC]

I have done the TV evaluation reports for Alan Gow for the last 6 years, and i can tell you the figures are worse than that.

Live rarely gets past 250,000 viewers (sub 150 at its least watched event), highlights averages around 65-80,000. From my understanding ITV signed a new 3 year deal last year.

And remember - this is only a 'National' series. Such coverage is quite unbelievable. Personally, ITV should be covering World series, i;e WTCC, WRC, GT1, Le Mans.

[jim2wheels]

By any measure, that's dire!

It is, however i believe the strategy is brodcast saturation over viewer numbers.

As the BTCC series has lost its big names, neither the BBC or ITV will use their flagship channels. Viewer numbers on anything other than the main 5 channels are pretty grim anyway.

In a positive spin, BTCC still attracts more viewers than its direct rival - the British Superbikes.

Unfortunately the drop in BTCC popularity is married up to the sorry state of British car industry.

Edit: It's also worth mentioning that when the BTCC was on ITV1 during the day (can't remember how far back that was) each event was easily surpassing 1 million viewers.

[Mark]

I guess it's hard to take for many BTCC fans who remember not so long ago that the BTCC was second only to Formula 1 in prestige for motorsport in the UK.

Certainly the BBC *could* make it popular again if they showed a highlights package, even if it were a week after the race, however they have many competing demands.

Of course it's now a big problem for BTCC and motorsport in general. Manufacturers won't get involved if it doesn't have large exposure, the only real way to do that is with a TV deal on the main 5 channels, but they aren't going to take it on if there aren't manufacturers involved.

[MrJan]

I personally find highlights unexciting as everything has already happened so id be less motivated to watch them

I would rather have a decent highlights package a week later than a lame live coverage. TBH the main problem I have with the live option is that it ruins your day. If you want to watch the 3 races then you have to sit down at 3 seperate times and lose the chance of doing anything else. With an hour highlights programme you can sit down and watch it during lunch and then go about your day.

The main problem though is that the racing just isn't quite the same as it was towards the end of the super tourer era. Think back to around '97 and we had loads of manufacturers (Peugeot, Renault, Nissan, Audi, Ford, Volvo, Vauxhall and Honda), hatfuls of great drivers (Frank Biela, Alain Menu, Rickard Rydell, David Leslie, John Cleland, Will Hoy, James Thompson, Kelvin Burt, Tim Harvey, Gabriele Tarquini, Jason Plato, Anthony Reid, Matt Neal, Derek Warwick). There are still some great drivers and a few different makes of car but it just isn't the same.

[jim2wheels]

I would rather have a decent highlights package a week later than a lame live coverage.

The figures confirm that everyone else probably thinks the same thing Jan. Those days you mention were very much the glory days, but when Alan Gow left the series its popularity seemed to wane from that point onwards. Although he has been back for several years now, it is very different enviroment to the 90s.

Many of my friends don't watch it anymore. The main reason being that it has reverted to drivers unfairly nudging each other of the track at every single race - they call the series "bumper cars for grown-ups". I still watch it as it can provide fantastic entertainment when everyone plays fair and square. I also think the lack of real pro drivers and the influx of rich kids/garage owners has seriously weakened the series. You have to ask why do so many ex F1 drivers go to the DTM (only 2 works teams) and not the BTCC?

[Mark]

Name the two most sucessful and well known touring car series and you'll probably think of DTM and Aussie V8 Supercars. Both of which only have two manufacturers. So series don't really need any more than that, but they do need two who are comitted and want to beat the other.

My ideal BTCC coverage would be 45 minutes at around 6pm-ish on the day of the race, on BBC2 Now a lot of people will say, that's not long enough, but I think an hour is too long, half an hour is too short.

Of course, keep the live coverage for those who want to see that.

[jim2wheels]

Totally agree with you on all of the above.

However I think many people would happily watch the coverage around 11:30ish at night - that being the prime time that wifes and girlfriends usually scoot of the bed! The audience figures would certainly jump to the half million mark around that time too.

[Alfa Fan]

Name the two most sucessful and well known touring car series and you'll probably think of DTM and Aussie V8 Supercars. Both of which only have two manufacturers. So series don't really need any more than that, but they do need two who are comitted and want to beat the other.

My ideal BTCC coverage would be 45 minutes at around 6pm-ish on the day of the race, on BBC2 Now a lot of people will say, that's not long enough, but I think an hour is too long, half an hour is too short.

Of course, keep the live coverage for those who want to see that.

An hour would be about right I think, when you include the features the BBC used to have in addition to the race coverage.

[AndyRAC]

It is, however i believe the strategy is brodcast saturation over viewer numbers.

As the BTCC series has lost its big names, neither the BBC or ITV will use their flagship channels. Viewer numbers on anything other than the main 5 channels are pretty grim anyway.

In a positive spin, BTCC still attracts more viewers than its direct rival - the British Superbikes.

Unfortunately the drop in BTCC popularity is married up to the sorry state of British car industry.

Edit: It's also worth mentioning that when the BTCC was on ITV1 during the day (can't remember how far back that was) each event was easily surpassing 1 million viewers.

Compare it to the Rallying equivalent - BRC. Hidden away on Sky.

I think the BTCC is extremely lucky to get the coverage it does - as already said BSB is on Eurosport, BRC is on Sky. The only series with 'normal' TV coverage are F1/MotoGP.
Also, apart from TV coverage - it does okay in the monthly car magazines - there was a preview in EVO, one of the series sponsors is Auto Express. In fact it has decent series sponsors - helped by the fact there is national TV. As a Rallyfan, I'd love that kind of exposure for the BRC - sadly, it just doesn't compare.

[Dave B]

TBH the main problem I have with the live option is that it ruins your day. If you want to watch the 3 races then you have to sit down at 3 seperate times and lose the chance of doing anything else. With an hour highlights programme you can sit down and watch it during lunch and then go about your day.
I tend to Sky+ the whole thing and start watching from about 3pm - that means by the last race I'm watching live again. In other words, pretty much what ITV1 used to do. I'm sorry to say that

I'm rather useless to commercial broadcasters as I haven't watched any non-BBC channel live since ITV gave up the F1, and as such have hardly ever been exposed to an ad break!

[tintin]

I guess it's hard to take for many BTCC fans who remember not so long ago that the BTCC was second only to Formula 1 in prestige for motorsport in the UK.


The BTCC is still second only to F1 in the UK.
Nothing else comes remotely close.

And while 250,000 sounds low, that figure is the average audience over six or seven hours, so it's hardly surprising.

If you extrapolate the figures so that you take the average during the three BTCC races (discarding the support race coverage) then the figure doubles.

And on top of that you have another 350,000 who don't watch the live show at all, and wait for the highlights.

[Superdave08]

I tend to Sky+ the whole thing and start watching from about 3pm - that means by the last race I'm watching live again. In other words, pretty much what ITV1 used to do. I'm sorry to say that


very simular to what I do with lots of fast forwarding

[71minus2]

ITV used to plug BTCC when F1 was on which would drive viewer figures up. ITV4 coverage is OK, particularly if you like the support races but i think there is opportunity for them to increase the coverage by being clever with the Sky EPG.

If you look at the race scheduled start times and the time between races for mopping up, podiums etc, is it possible for the huge 6 hour programme to be split into individual races? I reckon that the size of the programme if recorded prevents some Sky+ users from recording it as it fills a large chunk of the space.

I would also like to see a race on ITV1 (highlights of race 1&2 then full live coverage of race 3) for one or two of the early races.

[Mark]

ITV used to plug BTCC when F1 was on which would drive viewer figures up. ITV4 coverage is OK, particularly if you like the support races but i think there is opportunity for them to increase the coverage by being clever with the Sky EPG.

If you look at the race scheduled start times and the time between races for mopping up, podiums etc, is it possible for the huge 6 hour programme to be split into individual races? I reckon that the size of the programme if recorded prevents some Sky+ users from recording it as it fills a large chunk of the space.

I would also like to see a race on ITV1 (highlights of race 1&2 then full live coverage of race 3) for one or two of the early races.

Yes, as long as the BTCC races start at defined times, which I believe they do. Then there's no reason why the program can't be split up into small ones to allow the BTCC to be recorded seperately. As you say 6 hours is a big chunk of space on the Sky+

A better idea is just for ITV4 to have a highlights prog just after the live coverage finishes, which you could record.

[jim2wheels]

The BTCC is still second only to F1 in the UK.
Nothing else comes remotely close.

And while 250,000 sounds low, that figure is the average audience over six or seven hours, so it's hardly surprising.

If you extrapolate the figures so that you take the average during the three BTCC races (discarding the support race coverage) then the figure doubles.

And on top of that you have another 350,000 who don't watch the live show at all, and wait for the highlights.

Yes it is the cumulative average audience over 6 hours, however the first 2 races barely register over 100,000 (1st race as low as 30,000) if you measure the live race audience only, with the 3rd race providing the peak audience at every single event my some margin. But you are pretty close to the figures. Overall I would say the cumulative ave audience for the 3 live races and all the highlight shows usually total around 500,000 - with the bulk coming from the ITV highlight shows.

Keep in mind all audience figures are extrapolated from a panel BARB of around 30,000+ people anyway - so these numbers are never hard facts at the best of times.

[Alfa Fan]

ITV to show race 3 of Rockingham at 8.30pm now due to live IPL coverage. Now can we please please please swap the timetable round so that BTCC race 3 isn't the last of the meeting?!

[tin-top fan]

ITV to show race 3 of Rockingham at 8.30pm now due to live IPL coverage. Now can we please please please swap the timetable round so that BTCC race 3 isn't the last of the meeting?!

ITV is actually showing all three races at 8.30pm in a special program. So a kind of 1.5hr round up of the days action. Now if they could do this for all rounds I would be a very happy man! (will be interesting to see if the viewing figures for this could be higher than live broadcast to be honest!)

[Sarah]

I've only had ITV4 for the past six months so I'm loving the fact you can watch the BTCC races live but i'm not interested in the support races so I plan my day round what I want to watch but not everyone can do that. I still think it would benefit from a highlights programme on at a decent time on a main channel but doesn't look like that will happen.

[tintin]

Yes it is the cumulative average audience over 6 hours, however the first 2 races barely register over 100,000 (1st race as low as 30,000) if you measure the live race audience only, with the 3rd race providing the peak audience at every single event my some margin. But you are pretty close to the figures. Overall I would say the cumulative ave audience for the 3 live races and all the highlight shows usually total around 500,000 - with the bulk coming from the ITV highlight shows.


How can you have a cumulative average? :confused:

The figures show that EACH of the BTCC races gets around 350-500,000 viewers. The support races each get around 100-200,000 viewers.

The average over 6 hours is around 250,000. The peak (usually race 3, but sometimes race 2) is around 600,000.

The two highlights shows on ITV4 get between 70,000 and 200,000 viewers, depending on time of day, weather, etc. The ITV1 highlights gets around 250,000.

So the cumulative figure for BTCC races only is around 1.7 million viewers per race weekend, and the cumulative figure including support races is around 3.3 million per race weekend. And that's before you count those watching online.



Keep in mind all audience figures are extrapolated from a panel BARB of around 30,000+ people anyway - so these numbers are never hard facts at the best of times.

Not hard facts, but accurate to a margin of error of less than 2%.
So if BARB says a million people are watching, it will be somewhere between 980,000 and 1.02 million. And that's accurate enough for most people.

[UltimateDanGTR]

when the digital switch over occurs, everyone will be able to get ITV4 wont they? thus I'd expect viewing figures to rise quite a bit then.

[MrJan]

Has digital switchover not happened everywhere yet? Down in deepest, darkest Devon we've been digi only for nearly a year now, would've thought the rest of the country would be ahead of that.

[Mark]

No, the switch has only just started now. Wales has done or, or is about to do so.
Edit: Certain areas of Wales switched a couple of days ago. This is the first significant switchover.

[MrJan]

This is the first significant switchover.

LIES!!! :p : We've been without terrestrial in the SW since last May. I tend to watch most of my telly on the computer now anyway, ITV service is a bit crap but the BBC WatchLive thing is spot on and even with our crappy broadband it tends to run without a hitch.

[Mark]

LIES!!! :p : We've been without terrestrial in the SW since last May. I tend to watch most of my telly on the computer now anyway, ITV service is a bit crap but the BBC WatchLive thing is spot on and even with our crappy broadband it tends to run without a hitch.

I stand corrected :p . There switchover in the North East won't happen for a couple of years yet. Although it could have already happened and I wouldn't have noticed!

[tintin]

Switchover has happened in the North-West, Cumbria, South-West (Devon and Cornwall) and Wales already.

This month Somerset, Gloucestershire, and parts of Dorset and Wiltshire will switch, followed by the North of Scotland during the summer.

[jim2wheels]

How can you have a cumulative average? :confused:

The figures show that EACH of the BTCC races gets around 350-500,000 viewers. The support races each get around 100-200,000 viewers.

The average over 6 hours is around 250,000. The peak (usually race 3, but sometimes race 2) is around 600,000.

The two highlights shows on ITV4 get between 70,000 and 200,000 viewers, depending on time of day, weather, etc. The ITV1 highlights gets around 250,000.

So the cumulative figure for BTCC races only is around 1.7 million viewers per race weekend, and the cumulative figure including support races is around 3.3 million per race weekend. And that's before you count those watching online.



Not hard facts, but accurate to a margin of error of less than 2%.
So if BARB says a million people are watching, it will be somewhere between 980,000 and 1.02 million. And that's accurate enough for most people.

Tintin,

Without stretching this further than it needs to, but where exactly do you get your 600,000 peak figure from? Personally I use Markdata audience database which provided BARB audience data for the UK and I can tell you my figures are right. Also please consider that I have provided Alan Gow his audience data for over 6 years, which in turn is used for all marketing figures.

A cumulative average is used when combining several program segements to generate an average audience, or combining several broadcasts such as multiple highlight broadcasts - which in this instance is what we are talking about. You cant just stack three lots of audience figures from the same broadcast and add them together. Do you really believe 1.3 million people watch the support races?? Keep in mind F1 on BBC tops out around 5 million. So how do you manage to get a 3 million figure? It doesnt even work out that many when you add up your numbers for petes sake...

And how does a 33,000 barb panel representing the entire UK audience (some 60 mill+) give you a 2% error margin? It's enough "for most people" because that is all "they" have to provide any sort of CPT ratio (cost per thousand - which is the industry standard rate of pricing advert breaks). 1 person representing over 5,000 people does not provide a 2% margin.

Im happy to have a debate, but please dont dispute the figures when i work in the industry. If you did you would understand what a cumulative average is rather than taking the word "average" at face value.

[tintin]

Tintin,

Without stretching this further than it needs to, but where exactly do you get your 600,000 peak figure from? Personally I use Markdata audience database which provided BARB audience data for the UK and I can tell you my figures are right.


I get my data direct from BARB.



A cumulative average is used when combining several program segements to generate an average audience, or combining several broadcasts such as multiple highlight broadcasts - which in this instance is what we are talking about. You cant just stack three lots of audience figures from the same broadcast and add them together. Do you really believe 1.3 million people watch the support races?? Keep in mind F1 on BBC tops out around 5 million. So how do you manage to get a 3 million figure? It doesnt even work out that many when you add up your numbers for petes sake...


No, I don't believe it. I was just adding numbers together "cumulatively".



And how does a 33,000 barb panel representing the entire UK audience (some 60 mill+) give you a 2% error margin? It's enough "for most people" because that is all "they" have to provide any sort of CPT ratio (cost per thousand - which is the industry standard rate of pricing advert breaks). 1 person representing over 5,000 people does not provide a 2% margin.


I fully agree that 1 person representing 5,000 people doesn't provide a 2% margin of error.

However anyone who has done maths, geography or any science at AS level or higher will understand the concept of standard deviation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_deviation)... or if they don't understand it, they either failed their course or got very lucky ;)

You only need a sample size of around 80 people to give you 2% MOE on a population the size of a city like Swansea, Derby or Belfast.

BARB's actual sample size is only 11,300, not the 33,000 you said. It is one household for roughly every 5,000 people in the UK. BARB's website has some detailed explanations of how this is accurate.

[jim2wheels]

I get my data direct from BARB.



No, I don't believe it. I was just adding numbers together "cumulatively".



I fully agree that 1 person representing 5,000 people doesn't provide a 2% margin of error.

However anyone who has done maths, geography or any science at AS level or higher will understand the concept of standard deviation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_deviation)... or if they don't understand it, they either failed their course or got very lucky ;)

You only need a sample size of around 80 people to give you 2% MOE on a population the size of a city like Swansea, Derby or Belfast.

BARB's actual sample size is only 11,300, not the 33,000 you said. It is one household for roughly every 5,000 people in the UK. BARB's website has some detailed explanations of how this is accurate.


This could go on for a while ;)

I still don't agree with your numbers - if were both using BARB one of us is wrong. However I doubt either of us will budge on who's right or wrong...but that 11,000 figure is old data im afraid to say.

And if anyone believes 80 people can generally represent an entire city with any degree of accuracy needs to get their head out of their text books and live in the real world - that's the sort of marketing gumph that marketing sales guys come out with. And no amount of Wiki links will persuade me otherwise im afraid.

However, I do respect you opinion and having worked in sports marketing 10+ years know all too well how flakey these things can be. One can only use what is front of them. I think this debate has has run its course...

On a final note , I did indeed get lucky. :)