Fronts or rears?

[tannat]

I saw an interesting display while purchasing tires this weekend. It was sponsored by Michelin and the title was “When replacing only two tires replace the rears”.

I totally disagree with this and always thought I’d rather have more grip on the tires used for steering.

Perhaps this is essentially a tiremaker echoing the premise used by automakers-give the public a ‘safe’ understeering car, rather than an oversteering one.

Your thoughts..

[edv]

They are correct.

If you can only install 2 new tires on your car, you should mount them on the rear, regardless of whether its RWD , FWD or AWD.

I just re-mounted my summer tires this week. I inspected them to determine which 2 had the better tread, and they went on the rear.

[tannat]

They are correct.

If you can only install 2 new tires on your car, you should mount them on the rear, regardless of whether its RWD , FWD or AWD.

I just re-mounted my summer tires this week. I inspected them to determine which 2 had the better tread, and they went on the rear.

Not for me...

You are a passenger, with practically no method of correction if the fronts go.

If the rear goes you can steer out of it...

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Not for me...

You are a passenger, with practically no method of correction if the fronts go.

If the rear goes you can steer out of it...

But wouldn't you feel the fronts go before the rears go? And therefor react to it faster?

[tannat]

But wouldn't you feel the fronts go before the rears go? And therefor react to it faster?

I don't think this is necessarily true. I know I've exprienced 'snap' oversteer and understeer. Not certain if one happens before the other. Different by the situation...

[Shifter]

It's so you don't experience tread seaparation while negotiating the final corner of the Indy road course.

In all seriousness, why would any serious driver only replace two?

[Jag_Warrior]

The average driver can probably deal with understeer a lot better than oversteer. So I see where Michelin is coming from, on the safety front. That's the main reason that automakers design average automobiles with inherent understeer (not talking about true high performance cars here).

[Jag_Warrior]

It's so you don't experience tread seaparation while negotiating the final corner of the Indy road course.

In all seriousness, why would any serious driver only replace two?

Back when I was a wannabe street demon in high school, I wore out my rears a lot faster than the fronts. Chicks dig smokey burnouts. :D

But other than a couple of blowouts over the years, I can't recall that I've ever replaced just one or two tires since I was very young. For cars I've had that had different size rears than fronts, I have replaced one pair before the other (by maybe a week or two - when one size was put of stock).

[tannat]

The average driver can probably deal with understeer a lot better than oversteer. So I see where Michelin is coming from, on the safety front. That's the main reason that automakers design average automobiles with inherent understeer (not talking about true high performance cars here).

Cheers JW-this must be the stance Michelin is taking......

[Alexamateo]

When I was young and poorer, and could only afford to replace two tires, they always went on the front. Face it, the rear tires really just ride around. Now, I would always replace all four at once, even in the case of a ruined tire with the other 3 still having a good bit of tread-wear left.

[tannat]

When I was young and poorer, and could only afford to replace two tires, they always went on the front. Face it, the rear tires really just ride around.

My sentiments exactly, Alexamateo :up:

[GridGirl]

When I was young and poorer, and could only afford to replace two tires, they always went on the front. Face it, the rear tires really just ride around. Now, I would always replace all four at once, even in the case of a ruined tire with the other 3 still having a good bit of tread-wear left.

Can I ask why? My current car is three and a half years old. It's on it's fourth set of front tyres and second set of rears from new. The original rears only got changed after 50k miles. What is the logical reason for me, if wanting to spend the money to be on my fourth set of rear tyres?

[Rollo]

On a front wheel drive car, the front tyres have to cope with drive and steering input, whereas in a rear wheel drive car the load is shared.

In every front wheel drive car I've owned, the front wheels wear quicker. Therefore I replace the front two, then transfer the two I've just replaced to the rear of the car; and on the other side of the car. The two ex-rear tyres are ditched.

[Alexamateo]

Can I ask why? My current car is three and a half years old. It's on it's fourth set of front tyres and second set of rears from new. The original rears only got changed after 50k miles. What is the logical reason for me, if wanting to spend the money to be on my fourth set of rear tyres?

Well, the first thing is if you are on your fourth set of tires on a 3.5 year old car, you should buy a higher quality tire. To put in perspective, My wife's Town & Country minivan has the same tires on it as when we bought it 4 years ago, and I traded trucks in January and those were 4 years old also.

If, for example, my wife were to bang the curb and ruin a tire, I would replace all 4 so they all had even wear. FYI Tires are top of the line Michelins.

[Mark in Oshawa]

On a front wheel drive car, the front tyres have to cope with drive and steering input, whereas in a rear wheel drive car the load is shared.

In every front wheel drive car I've owned, the front wheels wear quicker. Therefore I replace the front two, then transfer the two I've just replaced to the rear of the car; and on the other side of the car. The two ex-rear tyres are ditched.

I have put new fronts on the same size and model as the rears, and just carried on...with an alignment done of course. The sad reality is, you can almost burn off two front tires on a powerful or heavy front wheel driver car two times before the backs even look close to needing replacement. As it was said, they often just follow you around.

If I had a rear drive or 4wd car, all 4 would be rotated back and forth. Come to think of it, Rotation is a good idea I suppose for any car, but it is something people rarely do. The way fronts seem to burn off some frontwheel drive cars, people just don't bother....

[GridGirl]

Actually, I was wrong as I'm only on my third set of fronts. I'll need my fourth set before my car is 4 years old though. I average around 20k miles on each set of front which I think is reasonable.

I accept your point on even wear although I very much doubt I would notice the difference. I think I'll just stick to replacing them when I need to. :)

[Rollo]

I figure that whatever drive system you have, either FWD, RWD or 4WD that it is utterly essential that the front tyres be matched - same brand, same model, same tread pattern, if only for that one time you need to slam on the brakes in the wet.
If they're not matched, the there'd be more likelyhood of the tyres gripping differently, thus inducing a skid.

Skids lead to loss to traction, loss of traction leads to loss of control, loss of controlleads to accidents, accidents lead to the dark side. :vader:

[slorydn1]

I rotate my tires every other oil change or so. When the time comes to replace a set of tires I replace a set of tires. If, for some reason, I must do only two, the new tires always go on the drive wheels, be it front or back.
But I always replace the other 2 as quickly as possible.

[MrJan]

My tyres are staggered so it doesn't really matter. The most important thing is to replace axles at the same time :up:

[Mark]

Actually, I was wrong as I'm only on my third set of fronts. I'll need my fourth set before my car is 4 years old though. I average around 20k miles on each set of front which I think is reasonable.

Same here. Although only on my second set of fronts and they are still pretty new looking. My rears lasted about 30k although they were quite soft in the first place so I'm hoping for better from my new ones.

[bluegem280]

I rotate my tires every other oil change or so. When the time comes to replace a set of tires I replace a set of tires. If, for some reason, I must do only two, the new tires always go on the drive wheels, be it front or back.
But I always replace the other 2 as quickly as possible.
agreed, make sure the front tyres still have decent use, it's utterly essential.

[donKey jote]

Make sure all still have decent use and are as evenly worn as possible :)

I rotate mine every 6 months or so when I change from Summer to Winter sets or vice-versa... just changed back to Summers today in fact :D

[Shifter]

FYI I went through two sets of loud BFG's on my FWD rocket before switching to Yokohama AVID W4S, they're quiet, have an incredible wear rating (still fresh even after 30k and a track day) and seem to offer the grip of softer tires. They have pretty much converted me to always buy Yoko's.

Also, I constantly rotate for even wear.

[janneppi]

Make sure all still have decent use and are as evenly worn as possible :)

I rotate mine every 6 months or so when I change from Summer to Winter sets or vice-versa... just changed back to Summers today in fact :D
I switched to summer tyres today, on my car that is, I'll wait few weeks until I change to summer tyres on my bicycle. :D

Both winter and summer tyres seem to wear pretty even, most likely due to lack of power. :)

[donKey jote]

I switched to summer tyres today, on my car that is, I'll wait few weeks until I change to summer tyres on my bicycle. :D

Both winter and summer tyres seem to wear pretty even, most likely due to lack of power. :)

maybe you should try pedalling harder :p

[Steve Boyd]

A guy from Dunlop gave a presentation to my University Motor Club in the 1970's. He said always have your tyres with the most tread on the rear, whether the car is front or rear wheel drive. He then explained why. The more tread there is on a tyre the more resistant it is to punctures. Punctures are mostly caused by nails or screws in the rear tyre, and usually when the road's wet. The reason is that the nail/screw is lying flat on the road until your front tyre hits it. This flips it up so that when your rear comes along it's in the right position to get pushed in. It takes a lot more force to do this in the dry, hence more punctures when its wet. You don't normally notice this and you drive on with the air slowly leaking away. The first time you know about it is often when you need to brake or change direction suddenly. If you've got a soft rear tyre when you do this you can find yourself pointing in some very strange directions, so the more you can do to reduce the risk of rear punctures the better. Plus if you minimise the risk of the most vulnerable tyres you're reducing your overall risk of being caught changing a wheel at the roadside in the rain.

[donKey jote]

that may have been Dunlop´s theory in the seventies, but how many punctures have you had since then ? :)

[edv]

Not for me...

You are a passenger, with practically no method of correction if the fronts go.

If the rear goes you can steer out of it...

For most drivers, this is not correct.
Here is what an industry expert says, and it is echoed by many others:

Whether FWD or RWD, the deeper treaded tires need to be on the rear to acheive maximum wet traction. If you are driving in the rain and you feel the front tires hydroplane, you feel it in the steering wheel. That is what you want, a warning that the vehicle is losing contact with the pavement. When deeper treaded tires are on the rear, that is what you feel. When more tread is on the front, the first tires to lose contact would be in the rear which gives you no warning, and the vehicle begins to fishtail or oversteer. It is highly unlikely that most drivers can recover from a fishtail at highway speeds.

[tannat]

For most drivers, this is not correct.
Here is what an industry expert says, and it is echoed by many others:

Whether FWD or RWD, the deeper treaded tires need to be on the rear to acheive maximum wet traction. If you are driving in the rain and you feel the front tires hydroplane, you feel it in the steering wheel. That is what you want, a warning that the vehicle is losing contact with the pavement. When deeper treaded tires are on the rear, that is what you feel. When more tread is on the front, the first tires to lose contact would be in the rear which gives you no warning, and the vehicle begins to fishtail or oversteer. It is highly unlikely that most drivers can recover from a fishtail at highway speeds.



I would wager with the number of front drivers on the road today there are far more accidenrts due to the front hydroplaning than to the rear.

I think an attentive, skilled driver might pick up on the front hydroplaning, but the bulk of drivers over here probably do not.

I'm still not buying it. I want my grip where I can control the car, not where I have no input whatsoever....

[Rollo]

I don't buy this:


When more tread is on the front, the first tires to lose contact would be in the rear which gives you no warning, and the vehicle begins to fishtail or oversteer. It is highly unlikely that most drivers can recover from a fishtail at highway speeds.


Oversteer in a front wheel drive car is mainly caused by either braking too late into the corner or mid corner or lifting off the throttle mid-corner.
If you had the above set of conditions, with the rear losing contact, then the natural reaction of most drivers of backing off and applying the brakes, is actually going to cause a fishtail or oversteer.
What better way to correct a problem than by causing it in the first place? :rolleyes:

Futhermore you can reproduce the above scenario in a car park with a couple of KFC trays under the rear wheels and the handbrake full on. It is very difficult to induce a fishtail at 60mph.

I reject your reality and substitute... real world physics :D

[Daniel]

I don't buy this:



Oversteer in a front wheel drive car is mainly caused by either braking too late into the corner or mid corner or lifting off the throttle mid-corner.
If you had the above set of conditions, with the rear losing contact, then the natural reaction of most drivers of backing off and applying the brakes, is actually going to cause a fishtail or oversteer.
What better way to correct a problem than by causing it in the first place? :rolleyes:

Futhermore you can reproduce the above scenario in a car park with a couple of KFC trays under the rear wheels and the handbrake full on. It is very difficult to induce a fishtail at 60mph.

I reject your reality and substitute... real world physics :D
Huh?

[Mark]

Huh?

It's time for summer tyres!

[Daniel]

Yes it certainly is! I now have summer tyres :p

[janneppi]

maybe you should try pedalling harder :p
I would, but I just cant enough revs out of the machine. :)

[DonJippo]

Whether FWD or RWD, the deeper treaded tires need to be on the rear to acheive maximum wet traction. If you are driving in the rain and you feel the front tires hydroplane, you feel it in the steering wheel. That is what you want, a warning that the vehicle is losing contact with the pavement. When deeper treaded tires are on the rear, that is what you feel. When more tread is on the front, the first tires to lose contact would be in the rear which gives you no warning, and the vehicle begins to fishtail or oversteer. It is highly unlikely that most drivers can recover from a fishtail at highway speeds.


I have experienced both and like they say when rear goes it gives you no warning at all and that is why I have always better tires on the rear.

[JackSwagger]

I think the front tiers are more important as compared to rears,because the are at front and the rear just follows the path of them,so always use best at the front..

Chryslerengine (http://www.lowmileageengines.com/)http://www.clenbuterol24/

[schmenke]

...I just re-mounted my summer tires this week. ...

I would do the same if it weren't for the fact that I can't get out of my community without the winter tires!

Like Donks, I rotate tires when I do the twice-annual seasonal swap.