Shane Hmiel

[call_me_andrew]

Would you want to see him driving in the IICS?

[Phoenixent]

No I don't think it would be good to have Shane Hmiel driving in IICS. Whether or not he is free of his substance issues he should never drive in IICS. He has a lifetime ban in NASCAR and the image of Indycar accepting him as a driver would be a nightmare for any image building.

Indycar has enough of a struggle to improve it's public image without an addict driving one of it's cars.

[NickFalzone]

No I don't. Although if it was between him and Milka, I might have to side with him.

[MDS]

Yes, Shane Hmiel made some mistakes, but as far as I know all came out publicly is that he was smoking pot... big deal.

If Barry Bonds gets to keep the home run record despite the fact we all know he was taking steroids and HGH then I say give the pot head a second chance, if he can find sponsorship.

[call_me_andrew]

He also tested positive for cocaine.

[SarahFan]

Should the wnba let Marion jones play?

[call_me_andrew]

I don't think PED's are really comparable to cocaine and marijuana. The only things marijuana enchances are crappy jam bands.

[Lousada]

I don't think PED's are really comparable to cocaine and marijuana. The only things marijuana enchances are crappy jam bands.

Cocaine is a PED and illigal if used at a match. Marijuana and Cocaine reduce the ability to control a car, and therefore should not be tolerated.

[Chamoo]

I don't believe he should be allowed into an Izod Indycar. There is so much potential for this to become a PR disaster.

As much as I think it would be nice to see a Nascar driver give a Dallara a try, I want it to be one I know will not kill one of our drivers due to a DUI. He can run around in a stock car an bump wheels with guys while he is high and spin a guy around, but the potential for disaster is not all that great. In an Indycar, if he gets a little too close whether he is high or not, he could well die.

His drug history and his lack of experience in an Izod Indycar tell me he should stay away.

[Chamoo]

So does alcohol. Yet we spray bottles of bubbly around to celebrate in victory circle. Don't confuse using one of those things during a competition with it's use ever.

I'm not fully up to date on this story as I don't really follow Nascar all that much, but did he not admit to driving high a few times?

EDIT: I checked my facts, and can't find anywhere that he admitted to using drugs during race weekends or being under the influence during races. My bad.

[Chris R]

I am inclined to think it is a PR nightmare and it is not like we are talking a household name or anybody that would be better than the current crop of drivers.....

[SarahFan]

Pr disaster?

We have milka for heavens sake....

If he is clean and sober ..... And can hustle the car around the speedway. .... Then by all means let the guy race

[MDS]

So I read back and read the news aggregate on Jayski, he was found positive for Cocaine and pot.

Still, my feeling is that addiction, especially to hard drugs like Cocaine is a disease, and it should be treated as such. Not only that Shane Hmiel is bi-polar, which is a nasty disease to deal with.

He's been drug tested consistently and racing USAC Midgets (And some people here are always asking for more of those guys in the league) for the last couple of years. He's 30, American, and if he can bring sponsorship I say why not

More details at
http://www.scenedaily.com/news/articles/nationwideseries/Three_years_after_being_banned_from_NASCAR_for_dru g_use_Shane_Hmiel_just_happy_to_be_racing_again.ht ml

[Scotty G.]

Indy Car had no problem bringing in the Whittington's, John Paul Jr and Tomas Enge.

And Randy Lanier came into Indy Cars, with "questionable" off-track credentials.

If Hmiel is truly changed and has turned his life around, then why not? If you make mistakes in your 20's, then you are supposed to be permenently banned from big league racing? If this was the case, there would be no football, basketball and baseball in this country (or there would be lot of bad players out there).

He wants to start out in Lights to get rear-engined experience. He is talking to folks in the series. He seems genuinely interested and excited in becoming a Indy Car driver.

We need all of those types of drivers, as we can find. Certainly better then the current "I can't get into F1, and I need a job and if I am worth a damn, I'll be gone ASAP" way of "finding" drivers.

[vintage]

WTF - who cares about Shane Hmiel?

[methanolHuffer]

I'd like to see him at least be given a try. Which car owner would take such a chance is beyond my imagination.

Corporate sponsors would run and never forgive a relapse or anything indicating a relapse.

But hey, if he somehow was scrutinized constantly and came up negative every single test, yet performed competitively, i'd say it would be a positive.

[vintage]

His sponsor could be that company that makes home drug tests for parents to give their kids!

[Chamoo]

His sponsor could be that company that makes home drug tests for parents to give their kids!

How about the Betty Ford clinic?

[SoCalPVguy]

as a matter of market strategy, anybody that has a lifetime ban from Nascar should not be allowed to race in ICS period as it admits to a desperation and lower status that its competitor series. besides WTF is a shane hmeil ? its not like he puts even one extra person in the stands

[gm99]

How about the Betty Ford clinic?

I thought they were already committed to Little Al?

[Lousada]

I'm not fully up to date on this story as I don't really follow Nascar all that much, but did he not admit to driving high a few times?

EDIT: I checked my facts, and can't find anywhere that he admitted to using drugs during race weekends or being under the influence during races. My bad.

He was tested positive directly after a qualifying session. He also admitted that he never drove while under influence but that he did drive while the drugs were in his system. Whatever that means??

Everybody deserves a second chance. On the other hand this guy got a second chance at Nascar and also a third chance and he kept blowing it.

[DBell]

I thought they were already committed to Little Al?

I think there is a good point in this. It seems hypocritical to to say he (Shane) can't have a chance with all the problems of Little AL. Substance abuse, relapses, hit and run and assault charges are some of the charges the Al faced, at times while he was still an active driver. If he came to Indy with sponsorship, he'd probably get a ride in the 500. I doubt anyone in Indycar would say he can't race because of his past.

[Scotty G.]

1. Anybody that has a lifetime ban from Nascar should not be allowed to race in ICS period as it admits to a desperation and lower status that its competitor series.

2. Besides WTF is a shane hmeil ? its not like he puts even one extra person in the stands



1. Indy Car does have a lower status then NASCAR. No shame in admitting it.

2. He's an American driver, who has actually won some professional races in his life, who aspires to race Indy Cars. I know, there aren't many of those guys and gals left. But, still.... And most of our current cast put NOBODY in the stands either. ;)

[Wilf]

WTF is a shane hmeil ? its not like he puts even one extra person in the stands

Insert the name of: Wil Power; Ryan Hunter-Reay, Dario Franchitti, Justin Wilson, Raphael Matos for Shane Hmeil in your statement. We have very few people in our sport who appeared on or were featured on a Wind Tunnel type show before they got into IndyCar.

It could be a great rehab story. Would require testing prior to every race/practice weekend.

The problem is there is no testing which deals with whether the drug is affecting activities; they simply test to see if there is any in the body. How many of us could pass a test which checked to see if we've had any alcohol in the last month or two?

Don't take this wrong, regardless of the testing issue, if it is in your system and you don't have a prescription for it, you took an illegal drug. However, that is different from discussing whether it affected his ability to drive.

[SoCalPVguy]

Everybody deserves a second chance.

NO !!! They don't.

[harvick#1]

let him race, Id say give him a drug test everyday at the track, as long as he is negative and clean, let him race, if he is tested positive for a illegal drug, then he is parked.

[SarahFan]

Nothing like a good addiction thread for folks true colors to come out.....

*btw I'm a recovered cocaine addict ..... Can I still post

[Chamoo]

Nothing like a good addiction thread for folks true colors to come out.....

*btw I'm a recovered cocaine addict ..... Can I still post

Depends how we feel on any given day.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I figure that most Americans love a story of a guy overcoming adversity. He passes the drug tests, he has admitted to cleaning up his act and taking treatment for his addictions and issues; so let him have a shot. Little Al keeps getting a hearing when it is clear he was a first class JERK at some point in his life and with his demons. Yet if he showed up at the Speedway this May, people would welcome him back.

Scott is right, The IRL isn't as picky and cannot afford to be AS picky. Shane seems to have some talent. If he made a go of it in Indy car and became a great story of redemption, at least we know NASCAR has banned him, he wouldn't be going anywhere!

[V12]

He was tested positive directly after a qualifying session. He also admitted that he never drove while under influence but that he did drive while the drugs were in his system. Whatever that means??

I'm just speculating here but I believe "under the influence" is when your mind is actually affected by said drugs, however they can remain in your blood system (and therefore detectable by drug tests) after their effects wear off. Of course any drug test cannot detect the level of "under the influence" (excuse the grammar), only the volume of drugs in your system, so obviously when drugs are detected in a test and CAN affect you in a dangerous way, the only option is to assume the worst.

For instance if I had 10 pints of beer (approx 20 units) one night I might wake up the next morning feeling sober (albeit very hungover), but you can bet that if I got straight out of bed, into a car, and got pulled over for a random breathaliser test my next stop would quite rightly be jail.

Also marijuana I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) can stay in your system for months after using it (even once), even if its noticeable effects on your faculties wear off after a few hours (or certainly by the next day anyway!).

Not that that's any excuse of course - a friend of mine got a job a few years back where he was made aware that he would be subject to very occasional random drug tests as company policy, at that moment he resolved never to have the occasional spliff again, a pledge he has kept to this day, simply because a joint in September might mean a failed drugs test and the sack in November.

[Easy Drifter]

Does IC even have a drug policy?
Do they ever test and if so who?
Was Shane ever actually legally charged with an offence?
A Taxi Cab ban should not affect other organizations.

[SoCalPVguy]

No not every one gets a second chance - pedophiles, rapists, murderers - they're "one and done" preferably permanently in my book.

In the case of Hmeil, he DID get a second chance, a third and maybe even a fourth chance in Nascar and he blew them all - hence the lifetime ban- it was not for just one offense. No he was never charged in a court of law but that doesn't matter here.

I cannot think of a worse combination- drinking/drugs and auto racing, that might even be worse than drinking/drugs and daily driving and we know how society feels about that !!! Putting a guy like Hmeil in an indycar would send the absolutely opposite wrong message to our fans and sponsors.

If any body disagrees please send your responses to Mothers Againt Drunk Drivers who may have already lost loved ones to losers like Hmeil.

[Jag_Warrior]

I think there is a good point in this. It seems hypocritical to to say he (Shane) can't have a chance with all the problems of Little AL. Substance abuse, relapses, hit and run and assault charges are some of the charges the Al faced, at times while he was still an active driver. If he came to Indy with sponsorship, he'd probably get a ride in the 500. I doubt anyone in Indycar would say he can't race because of his past.

Yeah, I think after Little Al's (many) exploits, any moral high ground, when it comes to drugs, was lost a long time ago.

I don't use drugs (even marijuana). But I'm not one to look at a guy smoking a joint and tell him that I'm better than he is... while I'm holding a glass of Scotch in my hand. And let's face facts, the U.S.'s current policy on marijuana only came about because of that idiotic movie, Reefer Madness, back in the 30's. Yet every year, many more people are killed in auto accidents because of alcohol than pot. But if there was an announcement that Jack Daniels, Jim Beam, Miller and Budweiser were all going to be sponsoring cars at Indy this year, people would be jumping for joy like we haven't seen in 15 years. And what if Penske could get Marlboro back, that (make believe) Lotus team could get Camel and Forsythe would show back up with Players?! Oh my gosh, can you imagine??? People would be falling out in the floor with joy. Hard liquor, beer and cancer sticks... give us more, give us
more!!! :bounce:

All that to say, I don't really care. It would matter to some (sponsors and fans). But as long as he could keep himself clean while driving and doing appearances, sure, why not? But at the age of 30, and with no prior formula car experience (that I know of), I really think it's going to be a non-issue... as I don't see anything coming of this. Like they say, people in hell wish for ice water, but they don't often get their wish.

[Lousada]

I'm just speculating here but I believe "under the influence" is when your mind is actually affected by said drugs, however they can remain in your blood system (and therefore detectable by drug tests) after their effects wear off. Of course any drug test cannot detect the level of "under the influence" (excuse the grammar), only the volume of drugs in your system, so obviously when drugs are detected in a test and CAN affect you in a dangerous way, the only option is to assume the worst.


Okay, that makes sense. I believe they can actually see the difference between "under the influence" and "still in your system" in a drug test. But I don't know if Nascar cares about that difference.

[Lousada]

Yeah, I think after Little Al's (many) exploits, any moral high ground, when it comes to drugs, was lost a long time ago.

I don't use drugs (even marijuana). But I'm not one to look at a guy smoking a joint and tell him that I'm better than he is... while I'm holding a glass of Scotch in my hand. And let's face facts, the U.S.'s current policy on marijuana only came about because of that idiotic movie, Reefer Madness, back in the 30's.
This guy tested positive for marijuana AND cocaine. I don't care if somebody smokes joints or even snorts cocaine in his spare time. But please stay away from motorvehicles while you are under the influence. Hmiel was tested positive at a raceweekend.


Yet every year, many more people are killed in auto accidents because of alcohol than pot.
Being under the influence of alcohol while driving is forbidden is it not? I don't understand your argument here.


But if there was an announcement that Jack Daniels, Jim Beam, Miller and Budweiser were all going to be sponsoring cars at Indy this year, people would be jumping for joy like we haven't seen in 15 years. And what if Penske could get Marlboro back, that (make believe) Lotus team could get Camel and Forsythe would show back up with Players?! Oh my gosh, can you imagine??? People would be falling out in the floor with joy. Hard liquor, beer and cancer sticks... give us more, give us
more!!! :bounce:

Cigarettes do not impede your ability to drive a motorvehicle, so I do not understand why you bring this up. Questionable or not, neither cigarettes or alcohol are illigal in the US. Of course you also understand the difference between simple sponsorship and driving under the influence.


-------
By the way, talking about "unmoral" sponsorship. Anyone remember that AVG car that was supposed to compete in Champcar?? People weren't jumping for joy when that was announced, now THAT was hypocritical :D

[Jag_Warrior]

This guy tested positive for marijuana AND cocaine. I don't care if somebody smokes joints or even snorts cocaine in his spare time. But please stay away from motorvehicles while you are under the influence. Hmiel was tested positive at a raceweekend.

I didn't know that one (or more) of his positive tests was on a race weekend. Was he sited by law enforcement for driving under the influence? Honest question... I don't know this guy from Adam. But that has nothing to do with the NASCAR policy. Any test, taken at ANY time, which shows a banned substance in your system can result in a suspension or ban.

Now that's NASCAR's basic policy. And they have every right to do that. If someone doesn't want to abide by their rules, they don't have to drive in NASCAR. I don't care what people do, but I don't allow drugs at parties on my property... mainly because I don't want to get caught up in an potential legal hassles. Like NASCAR, it's my property... and my rules. I just don't get all moral about it.



Being under the influence of alcohol while driving is forbidden is it not? I don't understand your argument here.

I mean that some people get especially loopy when they begin talking about pot. But they would welcome actual sponsorship from companies that sell products that cause more social harm than the one they want to brand as something that Satan himself grew.


Cigarettes do not impede your ability to drive a motorvehicle, so I do not understand why you bring this up. Questionable or not, neither cigarettes or alcohol are illigal in the US. Of course you also understand the difference between simple sponsorship and driving under the influence.

Actually I read a study that smoking while driving does contribute to an increased vehicle accident rate. Nothing to do with the smoke, but the attention taken from the road while you're lighting up or flicking the ashes. But again, the point is simply that some people go off the reservation when they hear that someone has been using drugs (*shudder*). But when Dale, Jr. said that he was going to get looped on Budweiser after a race win, people cheered. I'm sure none of his young fans were influenced by that, eh? It's not like binge drinking is a major issue among young people in the U.S. or anything - to say nothing of alcoholism and drunk driving accidents. The legends of NASCAR were people who transported a "banned substance" to make money to race and live. They're heroes. Junior Johnson now sells a (legal) knock-off of the moonshine he used to run. It's crap to drink but it's very popular. A friend of mine is in law enforcement. When we're at lake parties, guess who the guy is who brings the clear liquid in the mason jar that burns blue? ;) But that same guy will bust your ass if he catches you with that same jar, or if he sees you hitting a joint. I just don't get wound up about this stuff like some people do. Moral Majority types have their way of looking at things and wanting to regulate personal behavior as they see fit... and I have mine.



-------
By the way, talking about "unmoral" sponsorship. Anyone remember that AVG car that was supposed to compete in Champcar?? People weren't jumping for joy when that was announced, now THAT was hypocritical :D

I didn't see the big deal with that either. Especially since I was on a board at the time where many of the same people were hoping and fantasizing about Pacific Coast getting Playboy sponsorship. I did understand that other sponsors (what few there were) might have a problem with it. But in my opinion, there's too much (hypocritical) political correctness in society and sports these days.

But I see Danica Patrick winning the IRL championship before this guy even gets a test in an IRL car. Storm in a tea cup, IMO.

[Lousada]

I didn't know that one (or more) of his positive tests was on a race weekend. Was he sited by law enforcement for driving under the influence? Honest question... I don't know this guy from Adam. But that has nothing to do with the NASCAR policy. Any test, taken at ANY time, which shows a banned substance in your system can result in a suspension or ban.

Now that's NASCAR's basic policy. And they have every right to do that. If someone doesn't want to abide by their rules, they don't have to drive in NASCAR. I don't care what people do, but I don't allow drugs at parties on my property... mainly because I don't want to get caught up in an potential legal hassles. Like NASCAR, it's my property... and my rules. I just don't get all moral about it.

He was never charged. I don't think law enforcement can do anything as long as he doesn't make an accident?? A drugtest takes a few weeks to do, so the result will be known some time after the facts. Is a third party drug test even allowed as evidence? Would be hard to get proper criminal evidence weeks after the fact.
According to WADA cocaine is only a banned substance if taken during a race. Since he was caught during a raceweekend, I take it Nascars policy is the same?



I mean that some people get especially loopy when they begin talking about pot. But they would welcome actual sponsorship from companies that sell products that cause more social harm than the one they want to brand as something that Satan himself grew.

I agree with you there. I don't see much difference between a joint and alcohol. Cocaine is a bit more serious though.


Actually I read a study that smoking while driving does contribute to an increased vehicle accident rate. Nothing to do with the smoke, but the attention taken from the road while you're lighting up or flicking the ashes. But again, the point is simply that some people go off the reservation when they hear that someone has been using drugs (*shudder*). But when Dale, Jr. said that he was going to get looped on Budweiser after a race win, people cheered. I'm sure none of his young fans were influenced by that, eh? It's not like binge drinking is a major issue among young people in the U.S. or anything - to say nothing of alcoholism and drunk driving accidents. The legends of NASCAR were people who transported a "banned substance" to make money to race and live. They're heroes. Junior Johnson now sells a (legal) knock-off of the moonshine he used to run. It's crap to drink but it's very popular. A friend of mine is in law enforcement. When we're at lake parties, guess who the guy is who brings the clear liquid in the mason jar that burns blue? ;) But that same guy will bust your ass if he catches you with that same jar, or if he sees you hitting a joint. I just don't get wound up about this stuff like some people do. Moral Majority types have their way of looking at things and wanting to regulate personal behavior as they see fit... and I have mine.

Yes, you are right. My point is that Hmiel got busted during a raceweekend. It's not really clear to me if he was actually high or not, but I assume he was, since they busted him. If he takes a Bud or smokes a joint after the race... I really couldn't care less about that.



But I see Danica Patrick winning the IRL championship before this guy even gets a test in an IRL car. Storm in a tea cup, IMO.

And that's the biggest truth in this thread ;)

[Mark in Oshawa]

Yeah, I think after Little Al's (many) exploits, any moral high ground, when it comes to drugs, was lost a long time ago.

I don't use drugs (even marijuana). But I'm not one to look at a guy smoking a joint and tell him that I'm better than he is... while I'm holding a glass of Scotch in my hand. And let's face facts, the U.S.'s current policy on marijuana only came about because of that idiotic movie, Reefer Madness, back in the 30's. Yet every year, many more people are killed in auto accidents because of alcohol than pot. But if there was an announcement that Jack Daniels, Jim Beam, Miller and Budweiser were all going to be sponsoring cars at Indy this year, people would be jumping for joy like we haven't seen in 15 years. And what if Penske could get Marlboro back, that (make believe) Lotus team could get Camel and Forsythe would show back up with Players?! Oh my gosh, can you imagine??? People would be falling out in the floor with joy. Hard liquor, beer and cancer sticks... give us more, give us
more!!! :bounce:

All that to say, I don't really care. It would matter to some (sponsors and fans). But as long as he could keep himself clean while driving and doing appearances, sure, why not? But at the age of 30, and with no prior formula car experience (that I know of), I really think it's going to be a non-issue... as I don't see anything coming of this. Like they say, people in hell wish for ice water, but they don't often get their wish.

I agree with all of it....except the sponsors mean little. What we are talking about is Shane Hmiel someone want in the sport because of his past? YES, because if someone is willing to take the chance to sponsor him and employ them, he hasn't done anything IN THE IRL to ban him for. Yes, he was a loser in NASCAR. Yes, I get all that, but the second they allowed Al Jr. back behind the wheel at Indy, all credibility to keep Shane out is lost. The IRL is no position to get all high and mighty about it. As you Said Jag, who are we right? You and I think are on the same song page on this one, but there a few who would ban this guy forever no matter what. The "second chance" this guy blew in NASCAR land he is still paying a high price for.....at some point, most act's of stupidity are forgiven....

[Jag_Warrior]

I know this is the IRL forum. But while we're on the topic, what has become of the Geico Caveman, J.C. France? Now, his case I see differently. He was busted with coke in his car (Lamorghini?) and/or on his person, and he was drunk and high as a kite apparently... all while street racing. So if NASCAR/Grand Am chooses to ban him for 1000 years, so be it. But I think it's pretty interesting how that story has quietly gone away. Not that he could drive anything more than a nail into a soft piece of pine, if that, but still...

But ol' Shane wants to race a formula car like I want a one night stand with Ivanka Trump. I doubt either of us gets our wish. Although if she ever got drunk enough and I was wearing some of that High Karate cologne, ya shouldn't count me completely out! :bounce:

[slorydn1]

I know this is the IRL forum. But while we're on the topic, what has become of the Geico Caveman, J.C. France? Now, his case I see differently. He was busted with coke in his car (Lamorghini?) and/or on his person, and he was drunk and high as a kite apparently... all while street racing. So if NASCAR/Grand Am chooses to ban him for 1000 years, so be it. But I think it's pretty interesting how that story has quietly gone away. Not that he could drive anything more than a nail into a soft piece of pine, if that, but still...

But ol' Shane wants to race a formula car like I want a one night stand with Ivanka Trump. I doubt either of us gets our wish. Although if she ever got drunk enough and I was wearing some of that High Karate cologne, ya shouldn't count me completely out! :bounce:

:rotflmao: :up:

[Mark in Oshawa]

I know this is the IRL forum. But while we're on the topic, what has become of the Geico Caveman, J.C. France? Now, his case I see differently. He was busted with coke in his car (Lamorghini?) and/or on his person, and he was drunk and high as a kite apparently... all while street racing. So if NASCAR/Grand Am chooses to ban him for 1000 years, so be it. But I think it's pretty interesting how that story has quietly gone away. Not that he could drive anything more than a nail into a soft piece of pine, if that, but still...

But ol' Shane wants to race a formula car like I want a one night stand with Ivanka Trump. I doubt either of us gets our wish. Although if she ever got drunk enough and I was wearing some of that High Karate cologne, ya shouldn't count me completely out! :bounce:

JC wasn't good enough to drive nails through soft pine. Of course it went away, France's have tons of money to buy silence, and the power of NASCAR to keep it that way.

AS for you and Ivanka, I did hear the rumour you were ugly enough that you couldn't get any action in a women's prison with a fist full of pardon's....or maybe I was wrong.....mmmmm I must get back to you on where I heard that rumour.....

[Jag_Warrior]

JC wasn't good enough to drive nails through soft pine. Of course it went away, France's have tons of money to buy silence, and the power of NASCAR to keep it that way.

AS for you and Ivanka, I did hear the rumour you were ugly enough that you couldn't get any action in a women's prison with a fist full of pardon's....or maybe I was wrong.....mmmmm I must get back to you on where I heard that rumour.....

Whatchoo talkin' about, Willis? I'm a handsome fellow... my mother says so! Who are you gonna believe, a whole bunch of ex-girlfriends or my sainted mother... who I'm sure has never even stretched the truth?

But now, pretty boy though I ain't, compared to J.C. ("Just Cocaine"?) France, I think he'd win the Beat With an Ugly Stick contest over me.
http://media.il.edmunds-media.com/non-make/ns/ns_3052_717.jpg

Also, I walk upright. Only thing not in my favor (which is a lot, I guess) is I don't have a Lambo, a rich daddy and I don't carry a gram of coke in my pocket where ever I go. Plus he's darn funny in those Geico commercials. "Snorting blow... so easy even a caveman can do it." :D

IMO, THAT^^^ up there is definitely the guy that you NEVER want to even see at an IRL race. Don't even let that boy buy a ticket.

And now that I think about it... wasn't there a guy running the IRL (founded it, in fact) who was said to have something of a taste for a white powdery (illicit) substance? I wish Shane well. Don't know him at all. But if guy can get himself together (and be humbled by his past - unlike Junior France or T.G.), best of luck on the return trip. :up:

[nigelred5]

He was never charged. I don't think law enforcement can do anything as long as he doesn't make an accident?? A drugtest takes a few weeks to do, so the result will be known some time after the facts. Is a third party drug test even allowed as evidence? Would be hard to get proper criminal evidence weeks after the fact.
According to WADA cocaine is only a banned substance if taken during a race. Since he was caught during a raceweekend, I take it Nascars policy is the same?


I agree with you there. I don't see much difference between a joint and alcohol. Cocaine is a bit more serious though.



Yes, you are right. My point is that Hmiel got busted during a raceweekend. It's not really clear to me if he was actually high or not, but I assume he was, since they busted him. If he takes a Bud or smokes a joint after the race... I really couldn't care less about that.



And that's the biggest truth in this thread ;)
Actually, Law enforcement can arrest you DWI for merely sitting in your car with the keys in the ignition if you fail the legal BAC. I know several people that has happened to sitting in a car warming it up in the bar parking lot without even moving the car. Now would or could they do anything in connection with a race on a closed circuit, on private property, in a privately sanctioned event? That varies greatly from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

Personally, I could care less if they allow Shane Hmiel to drive or not. There are perfectly clean and sober drivers that couldn't drive a car through an automatic car wash that have been allowed to drive Indycars and have been far more hazardous to other drivers on track than Hmeil has ever been proven to have been.

My wife and I had a similar discussion about good ol Tiger this afternoon. IMHO, no one should be looking up to sports figures and their personal lives as role models in the first place.

[V12]

IMHO, no one should be looking up to sports figures and their personal lives as role models in the first place.

+1 :up:

[Mark in Oshawa]

Personally, I could care less if they allow Shane Hmiel to drive or not. There are perfectly clean and sober drivers that couldn't drive a car through an automatic car wash that have been allowed to drive Indycars and have been far more hazardous to other drivers on track than Hmeil has ever been proven to have been.

My wife and I had a similar discussion about good ol Tiger this afternoon. IMHO, no one should be looking up to sports figures and their personal lives as role models in the first place.

Here here....I cant disagree. Especially on the last paragraph. I am disappointed in Tiger because I bought into the myth he was a family guy. Now I know different, I can still admire the way he hits a golf ball. I just think he is a bit of jerk now.

AS for Shane, well I usually have no time for druggies, but the guy has cleaned up and has stayed that way while driving in USAC. As you point out Nige, he cannot do any worse damage if he WAS on drugs behind the wheel then some of the headcases Indy has seen.

[Mark in Oshawa]

AS for you assertion Jag that Tony George was a coke head once upon a time, I wouldn't say that, but it would explain a lot wouldn't it?

[DavePI2]

my only memory of shane was at a monday race at the rock(whatever that support series is called these days) and Mike Wallace confronting him after a wreck and shane cowering from wallace. Some interesting four letters words were heard from mike that day that were censored out on replay but he managed go get a healthy fine for it anyways.. I still remember the image of a scared driver at that moment, not something I would want to see in IRl anymore then seein a.j. cry again.

[BobbyC]

For certain high-profile races, drivers must have an FIA licence. NASCAR can prohibit Hmiel from an IRL licence because NASCAR is a member of ACCUS, which governms who may hold an FIA licence. The IRL may use NASCAR's suspension beause both are ACCUS members, and Hmiel would need a NASCAR reinstatement to get an IRL and FIA licence.

[Mark in Oshawa]

For certain high-profile races, drivers must have an FIA licence. NASCAR can prohibit Hmiel from an IRL licence because NASCAR is a member of ACCUS, which governms who may hold an FIA licence. The IRL may use NASCAR's suspension beause both are ACCUS members, and Hmiel would need a NASCAR reinstatement to get an IRL and FIA licence.

Bobby, They haven't stopped him from running in USAC. I doubt highly they would do it in the IRL either.

[Easy Drifter]

Yes they are, according to the web site.
I do think if the Taxi Cabs tried to stop him racing in another series there would be a danger of law suits under both Human Rights and Restraint of Trade. He only broke NASCAR's drug policy not US law as far as I know. They would be on extremely thin ground to try and force their rules on another series.
As far as I know IC does not have a drug policy, or at least we never hear about it.

[call_me_andrew]

For certain high-profile races, drivers must have an FIA licence. NASCAR can prohibit Hmiel from an IRL licence because NASCAR is a member of ACCUS, which governms who may hold an FIA licence. The IRL may use NASCAR's suspension beause both are ACCUS members, and Hmiel would need a NASCAR reinstatement to get an IRL and FIA licence.

The FIA can only sanction international competition. The only time NASCAR could try to protest his licence is when the IICS is in Japan, Brazil, or Canada. That hardly makes it worth the fight.

[Mark in Oshawa]

NASCAR doesn't care where Shane races as long as he isn't in THEIR series.....

[SoCalPVguy]

"s.hmiel schlamazl hossenfeffer incorporated... courtesy LaVerne and Shirley

[Easy Drifter]

Since his name came up earlier in this thread I would like to point out that one J.C. France is listed as driving at VIR this weekend in the NASCAR owned Grand Am series.
It appears it does matter to the taxi cab boys who you are.

[garyshell]

Since his name came up earlier in this thread I would like to point out that one J.C. France is listed as driving at VIR this weekend in the NASCAR owned Grand Am series.
It appears it does matter to the taxi cab boys who you are.


The charges were dropped on a technicality that the cop was a bit out of his jurisdiction when the drugs were found in the car. Gee, I wonder if the France family had anything to do with that?

Gary

[garyshell]

The charges were dropped on a technicality that the cop was a bit out of his jurisdiction when the drugs were found in the car. Gee, I wonder if the France family had anything to do with that?

Gary


http://sports.myway.com/news/04232010/v9553.html

Gary

[Easy Drifter]

Probably wouldn't work in Canada.
For sure not anywhere in Ont. if it was OPP. Even in areas patrolled by other forces the OPP have authority in the entire Province and the RCMP have anywhere in the Country, although they usually keep out of it in areas patrolled by another force. Mind you there are a lot of joint operations.
But it does show a bit of a double standard in the France case.

[BobbyC]

I'm not sure if USAC is currently an ACCUS member. Anybody know?

Yes. 9 Sprint Cup and 10 IZOD IndyCar races are "restricted," where a driver must have an FIA licence.

Here is the statement on the application form: "ACCUS, FIA may refuse to issue a license without stating any reason for such refusal. Furthermore, ACCUS, FIA may suspend, revoke or refuse to renew an FIA license held by a person under suspension by his member club, or whose affiliation with a member club has been terminated. In addition, it may suspend or revoke a license following a hearing of the circumstances by the ACCUS, FIA Board or committee appointed by the Board."

By that rule, Hmiel would have to be reinstated by NASCAR to gain an FIA licence to run in any series requiring an FIA licence, since he is under suspension by a "member club" of ACCUS.

[Easy Drifter]

I disagree. The key word is 'may'.
It doesn't say they will, it says they may suspend or they may refuse.

[MDS]

It's not like the guy is Lawrence Taylor or anything.

[Scotty G.]

He will be making his Indy Lights debut at Chicago, driving for Alliance Motorsports.

Says he would like to run the entire Lights season in 2011.

[Jag_Warrior]

He will be making his Indy Lights debut at Chicago, driving for Alliance Motorsports.

Says he would like to run the entire Lights season in 2011.

Good for him. I hope he's got his life headed in the right direction again.

[MDS]

Popoff Valve did a good story on Shane

http://www.popoffvalve.com/2010/8/5/1607033/hmiels-road-to-redemption-takes-a

[Scotty G.]

I know there are literally about 8 people who actually watch or care abotu Indy Lights, but evidently, Arie Jr's checko was bigger for Alliance then Shane's.

Too bad. Shane is a real talent.

[Otto-Matic]

I know there are literally about 8 people who actually watch or care abotu Indy Lights, but evidently, Arie Jr's checko was bigger for Alliance then Shane's.

Too bad. Shane is a real talent.

Ah that sucks :( I was really looking forward to seeing Shane behind the wheel, and seeing what he could do. Arie Jr should just hang it up. Its never going to "happen" for him and he's been copeting in FIL for like 8 years now. Having the record for most FIL starts is not a good thing...it just shows you couldn't move up. Even his two stabs at the 500 (and the one year he made it) he looked as shaky as Marty Roth.

[FLracefan]

Shane apparently had a back injury that needs to heal more before the medical team will clear him to race, that's why he wasn't in the car at Chicago. I think you'll see him in a Lights car once he gets healed up.

[NickFalzone]

Shane was seriously injured last night in a USAC qualifying incident. According to NASCAR.com, his condition has improved a lot since last night. Very hard hit though and I hope he'll be able to drive again...

NASCAR article from today:

http://nationwide.nascar.com/nationwide-series/2010/news/headlines/bg/10/10/shmiel-improving-after-USAC-crash/

Spectator video of the crash:

Wm8vv25-jY0

[Lousada]

Wow :eek: He's lucky his head wasn't chopped off. A miracle that he is not paralysed (as far as we know?).

[Anubis]

Regardless of his wayward past, that's a sickening accident and I can only wish him a speedy recovery. Seeing any sort of roof first impact is horrible.

[DBell]

I saw this update at Autosport.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/87423

It sounds a little better for Shane. I hope he has a a speedy and full recovery.

[Chamoo]

First thing I thought of was Greg Moore's accident, but at a much lower speed. Thank goodness Shane is still alive.

[Mark in Oshawa]

First thing I thought of was Greg Moore's accident, but at a much lower speed. Thank goodness Shane is still alive.

My first thought was what did they make the roll cage out of? Aluminum? I thought the whole point of the roll cage was to protect the driver....but it appears in this case, it caved in rather quickly....

I wish the man a recovery from this and may he live to have a normal life....but this sad accident seems altogether too easy to duplicate...how many of us have seen sprint cars go out of control like this?

[Anubis]

I was originally going to ponder on the lack of SAFER style barrier, but presumably that's not really feasible on the short tracks?

[Scotty G.]

My first thought was what did they make the roll cage out of? Aluminum? I thought the whole point of the roll cage was to protect the driver....but it appears in this case, it caved in rather quickly....

I wish the man a recovery from this and may he live to have a normal life....but this sad accident seems altogether too easy to duplicate...how many of us have seen sprint cars go out of control like this?


Mark, in this particular accident, I don't think the roll cage had much of a chance. That was a EXTREMELY hard and solid hit in a perfect spot. Even if with a SAFER barrier, that was going to do a lot of damage to the driver. All the safety measures in the world, can't protect you 100% of the time.

This sort of accident is VERY rare in dirt sprint car racing. Most of the time, when a car gets airborn, it goes up and not out (if you know what I mean). Usually, it lands on its "roof" and the driver climbs right out. Or if it does go "out", it doesn't hit a solid wall first (and by the time it lands it has scrubbed off a lot of speed). This one, was one of the rare ones where very little speed was scrubbed and the car took off and hit the wall square, driver first. If it had just hit a slightly different angle (not as square), he might have still had some injuries, but they likely wouldn't have been as potentially life-threatening.

I think the safety measures that are being implemented now, probably saved Shane's life. So for that, we can be thankful.

Very tragic accident on several levels. Obviously, nobody likes to see a driver get injured. But he had battled back from virtual racing extinction and by most accounts, had turned his life around. He was well-liked in USAC and well respected by fellow drivers for his talent and his willingness to "work his way back up" the ladder the hard way. He was likely headed towards Indy Cars in the very near future.

Sad, on many levels.

[Anubis]

Mark, in this particular accident, I don't think the roll cage had much of a chance. That was a EXTREMELY hard and solid hit in a perfect spot. Even if with a SAFER barrier, that was going to do a lot of damage to the driver. All the safety measures in the world, can't protect you 100% of the time.

I think the above more or less sums it up. Sometimes, bad stuff just happens. There was a crash in the Lamborghini Super Trofeo at Brno a few months back where a car spun into a transition between a concrete wall and armco barrier at just the right angle and the safety cell was literally torn apart. The car more or less disintergrated, the fuel cell ruptured and the whole lot went up in flames. The driver survived, but was badly injured. There were some questions about the wall he hit and whether the transition could have been better protected, but had he impacted at any other angle, he'd have bounced off and just spun down the track. It was one of those one in a thousand crashes where the car hit the worst possible place in the worst possible way. The reverse is probably true of Mike Conway's Indy crash. He hit in the best possible way, given the circumstances. There are some things you just can't plan for.

[Scotty G.]

The reverse is probably true of Mike Conway's Indy crash. He hit in the best possible way, given the circumstances.

Exactly right.

A very similar accident occurred in turn 3 with Tony Renna in the fall of 2003 (I think it was 2003) at IMS and we all know how that ended.

Conway was very fortunate.

[Chamoo]

Mark, in this particular accident, I don't think the roll cage had much of a chance. That was a EXTREMELY hard and solid hit in a perfect spot. Even if with a SAFER barrier, that was going to do a lot of damage to the driver. All the safety measures in the world, can't protect you 100% of the time.

The reason the roll cage didn't work the way you suggest Mark, is in it's name. It's job is to protect a the driver from roll overs. This was not a roll over. This was a direct impact on the top of roll cage, like Scotty said, which is not what the roll cage is built for.

It's actually probably better that the cage crushed in a little bit, as had the cage remained rigid, the energy would had been transferred through the seat and into Shane's back, making an instant death much more likely.

[Anubis]

Exactly right.

A very similar accident occurred in turn 3 with Tony Renna in the fall of 2003 (I think it was 2003) at IMS and we all know how that ended.

Conway was very fortunate.

Yep. Read enough about Renna's crash to know the aftermath can't have been a pleasant sight. Sometimes it's just dumb luck. Richie Hearn had more or less the same crash as Greg Moore, yet a small difference in the initial conditions led to an extreme difference in outcome. You can make tracks and cars as safe as possible, but there's always going to be the unknown. Sadly, we only tend to learn how to make things safer after a bad crash. Nobody was concerned about the tree in front of the catch fence at Toronto until Jeff Krosnoff's crash. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. In all the years since, I can think of two, maybe three similar crashes where a car has taken flight and impacted trackside furniture. There are some things that simply can't be legislated for. You can't possibly design a car with every possible accident and impact in mind.

[Anubis]

The tree was not in front of the catch fence at Toronto as there was no catch fence on driver's right along Lakeshore after turn 2. The catch fence was added after that incident. There was a spectator fence at the top of the hill though.

Memory was a bit hazy. Having re-watched it, there was a fence of some form on the drivers right, but it was set back about three feet from the concrete barrier at trackside. I'd had in my memory that he'd hit the tree, but he kind of glanced it through the fence and then impacted the light pole, which was exposed. The point being it was such a freak accident that nobody had ever considered the exposed light pole or lack of proper catch fencing a risk, and he hit in a way that was outside of the "normal" types of impact on that sort of track, so the car design hadn't considered it. You can try and minimise the obvious risks, but you're never going to remove them all, and eventually something will happen that exposes that risk. There was a recent crash at Brands Hatch where a car got punted off track and launched by the barrier, causing it to roll and then bounce over a section of barrier with no fencing, landing in a spectator area, thankfully without injury to anyone. There was a huge internet outcry about the circuit being unsafe (using everything from Johnny Herbert's crash to the Henry Surtees fatality as justification), but it was simply a case of the car going off in an unusual way at an unusual place. There was no full fence there as it wasn't a "normal" place for a car to go off. In the Hmiel incident, I know those cars regularly flip and tumble, but I can't recall seeing one take a square-on roof first impact before? Only thing I can think of that comes close is the Russel Phillips crash, although I think there were other car construction factors in that?

[Scotty G.]

1. Read enough about Renna's crash to know the aftermath can't have been a pleasant sight.

2. You can't possibly design a car with every possible accident and impact in mind.


1. I have heard horrific "2nd hand" info on the Renna crash. Thank goodness, it happened in October with no cameras around.

How that crash actually happened, is still one of those great racing mysteries, that we might never know. I have heard it might have been cold tires (since he was on his 1st or 2nd hot lap of the morning) or he might have hit a bird. Whatever it was, it was awful. And of course, the end result was tragic.

2. Exactly right. You can build the safest, most perfect race car ever built and put the drivers in the best safety stuff ever created and all it takes is one of those "one in a million" deals to still hurt or kill a driver.

With the Hmiel crash, you had people immediately blaming the track or the roll cage or if the car was "up to spec". There was likely no one to blame in this deal. Hmiel was on his qual lap and was shooting for the front row. He is very talented and can gas it with anyone in USAC. That's racing though. If he has that same accident 999 times out of 1000, he likely flips, lands on the ground, maybe gets his bell rung, gets in a backup car and tries to make the feature in the 2nd chance race. This was just that one time out of 1000.

Racing is certainly safer at all levels now, then its ever been. Sadly, injuries and deaths in sprint car racing were the norm in the 50's and 60's. Now, when a Hmiel has a serious accident with terrible injuries, its a huge story. Those happened all the time in the old days.

The only thing about the Greg Moore crash that many people had problems with, was the grass surface that his car traveled over at Fontana. That was one of those things, that should have been fixed long before that particular race.

[NickFalzone]

1. I have heard horrific "2nd hand" info on the Renna crash. Thank goodness, it happened in October with no cameras around.

How that crash actually happened, is still one of those great racing mysteries, that we might never know. I have heard it might have been cold tires (since he was on his 1st or 2nd hot lap of the morning) or he might have hit a bird. Whatever it was, it was awful. And of course, the end result was tragic.

2. Exactly right. You can build the safest, most perfect race car ever built and put the drivers in the best safety stuff ever created and all it takes is one of those "one in a million" deals to still hurt or kill a driver.

With the Hmiel crash, you had people immediately blaming the track or the roll cage or if the car was "up to spec". There was likely no one to blame in this deal. Hmiel was on his qual lap and was shooting for the front row. He is very talented and can gas it with anyone in USAC. That's racing though. If he has that same accident 999 times out of 1000, he likely flips, lands on the ground, maybe gets his bell rung, gets in a backup car and tries to make the feature in the 2nd chance race. This was just that one time out of 1000.

Racing is certainly safer at all levels now, then its ever been. Sadly, injuries and deaths in sprint car racing were the norm in the 50's and 60's. Now, when a Hmiel has a serious accident with terrible injuries, its a huge story. Those happened all the time in the old days.

The only thing about the Greg Moore crash that many people had problems with, was the grass surface that his car traveled over at Fontana. That was one of those things, that should have been fixed long before that particular race.

I think that there are still many "unsafe" tracks out there.. We saw with the Greg Moore crash that Fontana had a particularly bad design in that in-field section of the track. But I can guarantee you that 50-75% of tracks out there have similarly risky design features that, in an rare circumstance, could lead to injury or death. I don't feel fair singling Pocono out, but there are a number of things that could go wrong there and leave a driver in a very perilous situation. A lot of street circuits are similarly risky in certain areas, in that RARE circumstance that a car enters or exits a corner in an odd way, or flips over a barrier. We like to think that best efforts are being made to make these as safe as possible, but the reality is that costs are never going to allow every track to be 100% safe, particularly not when fans want a wide variety of tracks in a wide variety of locales.

[Chamoo]

That is what the cage is (supposed to be) built for. There are many instances of cars getting airborne and coming down directly on the cage. All portions of the cage top, side impact, etc should be made of the same gauge material and welded and cross braced appropriately. This looks to be an incident where the forces applied were simply in excess of the capacities of the cage design.

A roll cage is built to protect the drive in a roll. In a roll over, energy is dissipated over time as the car continues to roll. In this case, the impact on the top of the roll cage is not stopping a car going 100MPH all on its own. The roll cage, along with the tires and side pods dissipate the energy as the car rolls. In this instance, the car went from 75 MPH or so to 0 MPH in about 0 seconds, with all this force on the direct top of the roll cage. There was no chance for the car to dissipate the energy in a roll.

[SUBARUTEAM]

how is he doing? has there been any updates? it looked like a terrible accident.

unfortunetly motorsport has risks and can never be made 100% safe.

[Easy Drifter]

See my comments in the NASCAR forum.
No matter what we do or legislate there will be deaths, or almost even worse life crippling injuries in racing.
I raced in an era when there were drivers killed or crippled almost every weekend. Far too many people I knew died.
I was lucky. I had two major suspension failures on airport tracks. At a real road course it would have been big time trouble. And I rarely raced on airport tracks!
We can never make Motorsport a 100% safe but we need to do all we can.
Also remember many tracks are not making much money and safety upgrades can cost big money.
No promoter/owner wants to see a driver die or be crippled but he also does not want to go to the food bank to eat.