Free Speech only is free if you agree with it? Apparently for the U of Ottawa it does....

[Mark in Oshawa]

The University of Ottawa is hosting the always controversial but rarely quiet Ann Coulter. For those who are of the left of the political spectrum, this woman is gasoline to their fire. She is over the top and often very sarcastic (but isn't that satirical humour?) but she has a point. You may not like it, heck, I don't like half of what she says, not for what she believes in but how she has chosen to articulate it BUT she should have the unvarnished right to SAY it.

IN Canada, we have a university official who believes otherwise and is threatening Ms. Coulter with the Canadian Human Rights Commision if she says something HE Finds offensive.....

Story is here: http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2710026

Now, the thing is, She is going to hoist this all upon them. She told a Toronto Radio program this morning that if her speech can be considered hate speech, that letter trying to muzzle her offends HER human right to speak. Under the Canadian charter of rights, she has that right...or at least should have. What is good for the goose, is good for the gander, and this goose is stirring up a LOT of ganders!!!!

[Easy Drifter]

She is certainly contraversial and a little over the top but I don't think she really promotes hate.
At UWO a Muslim Student questioned her about an earlier comment she made about Muslims giving up cars and using flying carpets. The female student said she didn't have a flying carpet and asked what she should do. The response was get a camel. Not very nice but not hateful in my opinion.
I do find the attitude of the President of the Student Council at Ottawa to be disturbing. She does have the right to speak and the Student Council should not be trying to ban advertising her talk. That is suppression of free speech.
I do not agree with her on a lot of things but I feel she has the right to express her opinion.

[Rollo]

I respect her right to free speech and that she should have the right to say whatever she wants to... and be judged for it.

In the article which was submitted, it appears as though that Francois Houle is asking her to choose her words carefully. That if anything to me sounds like wise counsel.
In the short amount of reading that I've done, Ms Coulter sounds like a total nutjob, and a warning like this appears to be quite apt.

[anthonyvop]

Gotta love those peace loving, open-mined, all inclusive lefties!


OTTAWA — Concerns for “public safety” forced the cancellation of American conservative political commentator Ann Coulter’s public-speaking event at the University of Ottawa Tuesday night.

Several hundred people, including students from both Carleton University and the University of Ottawa, showed up prior to Coulter’s speech. The loudest and most vociferous were protesting her presence, drowning out a smaller group of pro-Coulter demonstrators.

Ottawa police had more than nine squad cars at the scene, at the university’s Marion Hall. But the event was cancelled about 8:15 p.m. — before Coulter had a chance to speak.

Reports suggested the building was evacuated after someone pulled a fire alarm.

“It’s a public safety issue,” said Sgt. Dan Beauchamp.

The fiery right-wing pundit and author stirred controversy even before she arrived in Ottawa. The university’s student federation objected to her even appearing on campus, going so far as to ban posters advertising her speaking engagement.

The University of Ottawa also sent Coulter a directive of sorts, urging her to weigh her words with “respect and civility in mind” in order to avoid potential criminal charges linked to hate speech.

“Our domestic laws, both provincial and federal, delineate freedom of expression (or ‘free speech&#8217 ;) in a manner that is somewhat different than the approach taken in the United States,” Francois Houle, vice-president academic and provost of the University of Ottawa, wrote in an e-mail. “I therefore encourage you to educate yourself, if need be, as to what is acceptable in Canada and to do so before your planned visit here.”

Coulter discussed the note during the first of three university-speaking events at the University of Western Ontario in London Monday night, where about 800 people gathered.

She has since suggested she may file her own complaint with Canada’s Human Rights Commission to allege hate speech.

That move and the contents of Monday’s talk — which included Coulter telling a Muslim student she “take a camel” as an alternative to flying — grabbed headlines on both sides of the border Tuesday.

Coulter made the camel quip when pressed on a question asked by UWO student Fatima Al-Dhaher, who was referencing a previous quote made to the media that Muslims shouldn’t be allowed on airplanes and should take "flying carpets" instead. Al-Dhaher had noted she didn’t own a flying carpet, and asked what Coulter suggested she do instead.

But Coulter defended herself on CTV’s Power Play Tuesday, saying each comment was taken out of context. The carpet statement, she said, was made in relation to racial profiling done by transport authorities after 9/11.

“I was giving a serious answer and they start heckling me, ‘Answer the question! Answer the question!,’ Coulter said. “The answer to the question of explaining a joke is another joke.

“It’s not so much a joke, it’s satire, because there is a political point behind my saying that they could take flying carpets,” Coulter added, suggesting it was the “silliness” of “political correctness run amok.”

The exchange no doubt contributed to the large turnout for Tuesday’s event.

“No more racists on our campus!” shouted the anti-Coulter crowd.

“No more commies on our campus!” shouted the pro-Coulter group.

In the end, of course, nobody got to hear what the woman had to say.

Coulter is scheduled to make her final speech in Canada at the University of Calgary on Thursday.

[Easy Drifter]

If my feeble memory is correct The University of Ottawa is one of the lower ranked Cdn. Universities.
It also is noted as being quite left wing as to staff and student body. I actually am surprised she was ever invited to speak there.
I am not overly surprised at the result.
So much for free speech when you are left wing. :(
It only applies if the speaker is left wing at U of O.

[Easy Drifter]

I just waded through over 20 pages of readers' of the Ottawa Sun comments.
Both sides of the issue had their share of real wingnuts. However the anti Ann side were usually more vehment and full of name calling.
Quite a few who supported her right to speak did not agree with her.
All said and done the fact that her talk was cancelled by the University because of 'security' reasons is a sad commentary on the University, especially in light of what was said by University officials.
Interesting that the University of Ottawa recently permitted what was basically an anti Israel week to go ahead.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I respect her right to free speech and that she should have the right to say whatever she wants to... and be judged for it.

In the article which was submitted, it appears as though that Francois Houle is asking her to choose her words carefully. That if anything to me sounds like wise counsel.
In the short amount of reading that I've done, Ms Coulter sounds like a total nutjob, and a warning like this appears to be quite apt.

Key words you said is "be judged for it". The problem here, and with the University of Ottawa by no means being the only university being guilty of this, is there is no judgement in the media or public opinion for many radical ideas on the other side of the fence. IF a group opposes abortion, it is marginalized and trivalized without any debate because the prevailing view on a university campus is "of course Abortion makes sense" without ever questioning what is happening. I don't want to see it abolished, but the debate about it must never be stifled if it is in a manner that is civilized. The U of O has allowed a "Palestinian Apartheid Week" but I bet if a group of Jews wanted to have a "Zionists in support of Israel" week they would be banned.

There is a double standard on too many North American campuses. Ann Coulter attracts a lot of loons, and is a bit off the wall, but I will fight to the end for her right to do just that, just as I would the radically left equivalent, Bill Maher. Can't STAND Maher, but I would have to say the U of O wouldn't be sending him a threatening letter telling him to watch his mouth and it shouldn't be that Ann Coulter is getting that sort of treatement.

OH well, Under Canada's Human Rights tribunals and investigations, what that letter did could be considered an infringement on Ann...and she apparently with the help of Ezra Levant (a guy who has spent a lot of money trying to keep the right to be politically incorrect part of the conversation) will be laying a charge that the U of O's Prevost was threatening her and infringing on her rights. Will she succeed? No...but I know flimsier cases against people on the right always make it to trial. Mark Steyn, the noted author and right wing pundit has had his articles dragged through this process and Macleans magazine spent a bundle on lawyers for running an exceprt of his book. The people bringing the charges had publically funded lawyers, and felt even if they lost they made their point by having Macleans spend a fortune defending their rights. Can anyone say libel chill?

Ann Coulter is not someone I would want running society but by god at least in her world, she would let you speak.

Universities are supposed to be about academic freedom. I guess that only applies when the orthodoxy on campus agrees with them.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I just waded through over 20 pages of readers' of the Ottawa Sun comments.
Both sides of the issue had their share of real wingnuts. However the anti Ann side were usually more vehment and full of name calling.
Quite a few who supported her right to speak did not agree with her.
All said and done the fact that her talk was cancelled by the University because of 'security' reasons is a sad commentary on the University, especially in light of what was said by University officials.
Interesting that the University of Ottawa recently permitted what was basically an anti Israel week to go ahead.
Drifter, go read what the National Post is saying about it and listen to Charles Adler tomorrow....

Adler has been all over the Coulter controversay...

[harsha]

if the university had a problem with her speaking , why invite her in the first place...

[chuck34]

Pretty clear case of double standards. Sad really. EVERYONE should be allowed to speak. It appears that only those of a particular political mindset are allowed to enjoy the freedom of speach.

[V12]

Sounds like the Danish cartoon thing all over again. Yes, free speech only applies when a certain religious group, not naming any names here, don't object.

That's not to say other major religions aren't obnoxious either, although the one that I will not name is the one doing the most muscle-flexing in recent years.

The sooner the entire world adopts either atheism, agnosticism or the smaller, more introverted, personal faiths that don't have any politicial element, the better.

[Eki]

Is Oshawa near Ottawa?

[Easy Drifter]

By Cdn. standards yes Eki.
By yours no.
About a 4 1/2 hr drive akk onmulti lane highways,

[Mark in Oshawa]

Is Oshawa near Ottawa?
5 hours actually, but the only thing they have in common is they are Ojibwa words. I wouldn't have driven up to see Ann Coulter. U of Ottawa has a pretty sad rep and I had a feeling this would happen. I was shocked actually she was going up there since that would be one of the last campuses in Canada I figured that would have a group large enough to invite her.

If I was going to see Ann Coulter (and I thought about it only for the spectacle), I would have driven to the University of Western Ontario in London ON, where it is only 2 hours or so down the road, and I know the people there would make sure security would ensure everyone's right to be heard.

This whole mess where the U of Ottawa students (just a few wacky morons proud of pulling alarms and starting a near riot) think they did something for free speech is just embrassing.

You can be an idiot, but you should be allowed to speak. Coulter is not an idiot, but she says some goofy things to provoke reactions...

[Easy Drifter]

I guess I drive faster. :p
I agree about University Of Ottawa's rep.
Carleton, also in Ottawa, has a much better reputation.
Interesting that after Ottawa got a bad report in Macleans Magazine's ranking their reaction was to not cooperate with the survey any more.
She should have beena llowed to speak.
I rarely ever agree with Eki but I will defend his right to state his opinion.

[Eki]

I rarely ever agree with Eki but I will defend his right to state his opinion.
I haven't even stated my opinion if it's 4.5 or 5 hours or near or far.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I haven't even stated my opinion if it's 4.5 or 5 hours or near or far.

Depends on how fast you drive.....lol...and we will just agree to disagree...unless of course, we agree.

[Easy Drifter]

Come on Eki. You know what I mean.
It is not this particular item.
It is everything we argue about and that is one heck of a lot.

I disagree with you on many issues and quite a few other posters who I (note I) consider Left wing. I admittedly will go after you with accusations to discredited you, with no real basis in fact. It is a technique and you employee it too.

My point is that you have an absolute right to express your opinion on any subject, as do I, and everyone else on this forum.
No matter how much I disagree with your position on any subject I will defend your right to put it forward and object if any Mod. tries to censor you.

Certainly I will go after you hammer and tongs but I will also try and joke with you on non confrontational items.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Eki, I can echo what Drifter said. This forum would be dull if we didn't have someone disagree with. Over the years, you and I have been on the opposite sides of a lot of issues, but I would argue to my last breath if someone said you or any other poster should be banned purely based on your opinion. Heck, the whole point of a forum such as this is to disagree and debate.

What happened in my nation's capital Tuesday night was an affront to my democracy and rights as a citizen. The pinheads that created the chaos think they won a victory...but like many things they believe in, it is a fallacy. No one wins when there is a censorship....

[Eki]

This forum would be dull if we didn't have someone disagree with.
That's what I've always said. Agreeing is dull and doesn't make long threads (and I'm not saying this just to agree with you). Speaking of which, I miss Fousto. Haven't seen him for ages, hope he's OK.

[Rudy Tamasz]

Agreeing is dull and doesn't make long threads.

Oh, I agree with you.

[chuck34]

What happened in my nation's capital Tuesday night ....

I didn't know that Coulter was in Toronto on Tuesday as well. :-D

(Canadian Bacon anyone?)

[janneppi]

That's what I've always said. Agreeing is dull and doesn't make long threads (and I'm not saying this just to agree with you). Speaking of which, I miss Fousto. Haven't seen him for ages, hope he's OK.
Then again, pointless arguing for the sake of arguing without any progress makes threads not worth reading, let alone participating.

[Easy Drifter]

Toronto is not as mundane as the Capital of Canada.
Torontarians believe they are the Centre of The Universe!!!! :D :D :eek:

The rest of Ontario have a different word for them. :vader:

[Eki]

Toronto is not as mundane as the Capital of Canada.
Torontarians believe they are the Centre of The Universe!!!! :D :D :eek:

The rest of Ontario have a different word for them. :vader:
What do the Ontariotorians call them?

[555-04Q2]

If you want to live forever, don't drink anything, don't eat anything or breath the cr@ppy air we have.

If you want to enjoy yorself for 8 hours without being interupted, take a few sleeping pills and take a nap.

If you dont want to be critizised for the things you say, keep your mouth shut at all times.

As long as there are more than 2 people on this earth, there is no such thing as free speech.

[Easy Drifter]

Sorry Eki, I don't want to get banned!! :eek:
But the two favourite nicknames for Toronto that are printable on a family forum are 'The Big Smoke' and 'Hogtown'.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I didn't know that Coulter was in Toronto on Tuesday as well. :-D

(Canadian Bacon anyone?)

She was. She did an hour on the "Michael Coren Show" on CTS (a faithbased network with a lot of programming of that nature. Coren's show is their politically centered show and Coren is sort of right wing...sorta).

Another bit of fallout that indicates some of the stupidity that involves the idea of how human rights and free speech are to be filtered was this take through Mark Steyn's webpage:

http://www.steynonline.com/content/view/3089/128/

[Eki]

Bill Clinton doesn't have free speech. He charges $100k per speech:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/02/15/politics/main272386.shtml

[Mark in Oshawa]

Bill Clinton doesn't have free speech. He charges $100k per speech:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/02/15/politics/main272386.shtml

Ole Bill gets it too.....good ole capitalist values that...god love him..

[Eki]

Ole Bill gets it too.....good ole capitalist values that...god love him..
Yes, he gets but he doesn't give free speeches.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Yes, he gets but he doesn't give free speeches.

With Slick Willie..nothing was ever free...except if you are a woman and he wants a free grope...

[Eki]

These days George W would probably have to pay for someone to listen.

[Mark in Oshawa]

These days George W would probably have to pay for someone to listen.

Ya had to go there...lol

Actually, Dubya has done alright...he charges 100k a speech too...and has gotten it...

[Easy Drifter]

Eki is just jealous. :p :