Ford Fiesta RS WRC

[Bobcat]

Ford accelerates Fiesta RS WRC development as engine rules are finalised... http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=32235

[Bobcat]

Year-long engine for World Rally Cars? http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/year-long_engine_for_world_rally_cars/

[Barreis]

Mr Chandler should step down..

[Hartusvuori]

How about year-long tires? Year-long mudflaps?

[Macd]

Why not go the whole hog and just have one event to cut costs?

[Allyc85]

Year-long engine for World Rally Cars? http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/year-long_engine_for_world_rally_cars/

One a year? Bugger right off with that idea :eek: :eek:

[Sulland]

The WRC car for us: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/249865/fiesta_st_official_scoop.html?CMP=NLC-Newsletters&uid=0719a5c2f8e7992cda43b3af6b7324aa
Or a startpoint fo a R3T car maybe !

[Bobcat]

One a year? Bugger right off with that idea :eek: :eek:
http://doxcar.com/wrc-wrc-plans-single-engine-per-season/


Ford’s technical director Christian Loriaux admitted it would be possible to run one engine per year, but he added that the development costs were currently prohibitive.

“Everything is possible with an engine,” said Loriaux. “The engine in your road car will last 200,000 miles, so, yes, we can make a competition engine that will last a season. But the costs will be very high.

“What we will have to do is make an engine that lasts 8,000 competitive kilometres and then goes bang at 8,005 kilometres. The way to do this is to test a car under those conditions, but what happens when our test engine blows up at 5,000 kilometres? We have to start again. And, when we have done 8,000 kilometres, we have to validate those figures by doing it again - and then for a third time.

“Suddenly, we have had to test for more than 24,000 kilometers on asphalt, gravel and snow. That would cost a lot of money.”
...said Christian Loriaux.

[ste898]

The most stupid idea is that the new WRC caes are going to have the driver aids again ie paddle shift etc......
Which idiot gave the idea for this?

[AndyRAC]

The most stupid idea is that the new WRC caes are going to have the driver aids again ie paddle shift etc......
Which idiot gave the idea for this?

I actually bought Autosport this week to read this story, and while I'm not Morrie Chandler's biggest fan, I understand his frustration. It seems as though the 'new' WRCars will be almost as expensive as the current ones. Absolute madness. Get rid of electronics and all money costing equipment. Can't we have cheap, spectacular cars, that will attract new Manufacturers?
And why still 4WD? 2WD with more power than grip, is what is needed.

[Bobcat]

AndyRAC basically, I agree with all that you say. Secondly, there are some issues as well... http://www.autocar.co.uk/blogs/racinglines/archive/2009/10/27/a-plea-for-better-looking-rally-cars.aspx

[sal]

The most stupid idea is that the new WRC caes are going to have the driver aids again ie paddle shift etc......
Which idiot gave the idea for this?

According to Mr C the FIA rubber stamped the paddle shifts etc! Nice work from Mr Todt. All those years at Ferrari have obviously affected his idea of cost cutting. What we need now is Sarsons not 15 year aged Modena Balsamic.

[serial jeff]

Get rid of electronics and all money costing equipment. Can't we have cheap, spectacular cars, that will attract new Manufacturers?
And why still 4WD? 2WD with more power than grip, is what is needed.

I agree that cheaper WRC cars are important, but 2wd is a terrible idea. World rally cars are supposed to be about going fast, not sliding around and setting slower times than PWRC cars. If you just want to see that stuff, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs-jAImScms .

I'd rather they cut costs by making the world rally cars a little closer to the production versions that they come from. Currently Ford and Citroen just build race cars to look like a production vehicle. There is basically nothing left of the C4 or Focus in those cars, so it's a bit ridiculous that they beat subaru and mitsubishi, who at least sold road-going rally cars.

[AndyRAC]

I agree that cheaper WRC cars are important, but 2wd is a terrible idea. World rally cars are supposed to be about going fast, not sliding around and setting slower times than PWRC cars. If you just want to see that stuff, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs-jAImScms .

I'd rather they cut costs by making the world rally cars a little closer to the production versions that they come from. Currently Ford and Citroen just build race cars to look like a production vehicle. There is basically nothing left of the C4 or Focus in those cars, so it's a bit ridiculous that they beat subaru and mitsubishi, who at least sold road-going rally cars.

Simple, either ban 4WD - or make the 4WD PWRC cars slower. In fact, just get rid of the PWRC - it's a worthless Championship!
The majority of road cars are 2WD - the majority of motorsport is RWD, so why stick with 4WD? It's proved it's point.

[RICARDO75]

Simple, either ban 4WD - or make the 4WD PWRC cars slower. In fact, just get rid of the PWRC - it's a worthless Championship!
The majority of road cars are 2WD - the majority of motorsport is RWD, so why stick with 4WD? It's proved it's point.

That will be good in tarmac rally, not on gravel.

[sal]

World rally cars are supposed to be about going fast, not sliding around.

Which is why we have been discussing the diminishing spectacle for the last few years...

[Brother John]

I agree that cheaper WRC cars are important, but 2wd is a terrible idea. World rally cars are supposed to be about going fast, not sliding around and setting slower times than PWRC cars. If you just want to see that stuff, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs-jAImScms .

I'd rather they cut costs by making the world rally cars a little closer to the production versions that they come from. Currently Ford and Citroen just build race cars to look like a production vehicle. There is basically nothing left of the C4 or Focus in those cars, so it's a bit ridiculous that they beat subaru and mitsubishi, who at least sold road-going rally cars.

Gif all the drivers a serial car and we will see who is the best driver! :p :
Maybe the WRC class would be cheaper and better with the current s2000 cars. ;)

[cannyboy]

Why not just make break the championship into 3 classes.
FWD/RWD and 4WD.
Minimal changes to each from the road car.
Big ass exhaust for plenty of noise.


Based strictly on production models.

In rwd, you could have porsche GT3's up against BMW M3's.

FWD could encompass anything from turbo minis to focus rs's.

In 4wd, you could have imprezas up against audi r8's.

Put a bit of variety back into it, and reduce the costs.

Building special purpose built rally cars like wrc's and s2000's has killed the variety and the show, and a 300k s2000/wrc car is just a dumb idea.

Get back to production like machine to keep the costs and the fans interest in the game. Allow big boost and big exhaust for lots of power and noise.

It's not hard to make a road car spectacular.

That video doing the rounds of delacour in the gt3 shows how spectacular such a formula would be.

You'd have a rally spec 911 gt3 for about half the price of a WRC car - I know which one would be more spectacular.

[Bobcat]

Video - Ford Fiesta RS WRC development http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpjNQk8mxc4

[AMSS]

Anybody know any specific technical regulations for next years engine. Meaning size of restrictor possible boost limits etc.?

[Mirek]

Should be 33 mm restrictor, 2 bars maximum

[AMSS]

]Should be 33 mm restrictor, 2 bars maximum

Really. Those engines will than be even more boring than the ones they run on currently.
I read that according to Christian Loriaux if they would be allowed a 35mm restrictor than the power and torque would be at the same level as now.

with 33mm and 2 bars they will be outrun by the Gr.N cars on gravel as well as probably the S2000 cars (at least on tarmac), let`s hope they will be allowed at least the 35mm restrictor and no boost limit.

[HaCo]

If I understood well:
- Current S2000 will be finished (no more 2l without turbo)
- New S2000 will be with 1.6l turbo, and will be new WRC
- What about homologation? You still need to run in WRC to get a WRC homologated? So no new S2000 from smaller teams who are not interested in WRC?
- How much difference between real WRC and regional WRC?

[Mirek]

with 33mm and 2 bars they will be outrun by the Gr.N cars on gravel as well as probably the S2000 cars (at least on tarmac), let`s hope they will be allowed at least the 35mm restrictor and no boost limit.

No way. Gr.N have also 33 mm, less boost, 150-200 kg more, much less possible changes (cams and valves for example), bigger volume won't be enough. They also have no sequential gearbox, much worse suepension, brakes, weight distribution, polar moments of innertia... New WRC will be both more powerfull and faster.

[Mirek]

HaCo: They still didn't decide wheather You have to register for WRC to homologate new WRC car/upgrade for S2000 car. It seems that it won't be mandatory.

[HaCo]

]HaCo: They still didn't decide wheather You have to register for WRC to homologate new WRC car/upgrade for S2000 car. It seems that it won't be mandatory.

Let's hope so, IMHO that kills the sport in general (and I'm not talking about WRC, but rallysport).

[noel157]

Anybody know any specific technical regulations for next years engine. Meaning size of restrictor possible boost limits etc.?

Don't think the FIA even know such things............yet.

[serial jeff]

Building special purpose built rally cars like wrc's and s2000's has killed the variety and the show, and a 300k s2000/wrc car is just a dumb idea.

Get back to production like machine to keep the costs and the fans interest in the game. Allow big boost and big exhaust for lots of power and noise.

agreed entirely. I don't understand what ford and citroen think they're proving by winning rallies with a car they don't even sell... maybe they hope consumers associate the performance of their million dollar world rally cars with the production versions. It'd be great to see near production cars being used and maybe get some 911s etc in tarmac rallies.

If you could purchase a wrx or evo and convert it for a total of less than $80,000 we'd see a lot more entries.

[306 Cosworth]

The most stupid idea is that the new WRC caes are going to have the driver aids again ie paddle shift etc......
Which idiot gave the idea for this?

What's wrong with paddle shift? It'd be a step backwards using manual shift/clutch. How many cars these days have DSG gearboxes and paddle shift? There's loads of them, including Skodas!

If the technology is there then why shouldn't it be used? The cars are still spectacular with the diffs they use at the moment, they're just expensive.

[AMSS]

]No way. Gr.N have also 33 mm, less boost, 150-200 kg more, much less possible changes (cams and valves for example), bigger volume won't be enough. They also have no sequential gearbox, much worse suepension, brakes, weight distribution, polar moments of innertia... New WRC will be both more powerfull and faster.

What comes to the actual suspension meaning the damper than there is actually no difference at all except that for instance ball bearings are still allowed in group N, only the travel and geometry is of course much better in the S2000/WRC.
I know that Gr.N has a 33mm restrictor and that the engine volume doesn`t matter that much( Ford actually planned to use a 1,8l engine even in the current WRC due to weight saving and without loosing power) But when you have 2l versus 1,6 than there is a difference specially if they limit the boost. Gr.N actually have a lot higher boost pressure than you might think (one reason why they blew the turbos on the evo 10 in the beginning so much before new homologation came)
Also I don`t know what the minimum weight is for future WRC but if it is about the same that it is now than it definately will decrease the gap between WRC and Gr.N.
That`s why I asked if anyone knows the rules I thought it would be based on S2000( 11,5mm maximum lift for valve max rpm 8500 max compression ratios etc) that combined with 2bars and a 33mm restrictor is just idiotic in my opinion.
But than again that`s just me......

[Mirek]

That`s why I asked if anyone knows the rules I thought it would be based on S2000( 11,5mm maximum lift for valve max rpm 8500 max compression ratios etc) that combined with 2bars and a 33mm restrictor is just idiotic in my opinion.

It's not possible to combine rules for naturally aspirated engine and rules for turbo engine. Don't worry about that, they are not that dumb. When talking about base in S2000 rules it doesn't mean anything about engine but about the rest of the car. Rules for engine itself are completelly new. Malcolm Wilson and Olivier Quessnel both confirmed some time a go that they know what is inside the regulations.

About the weight... new WRC will have limit 1200 kg most likely. Impreza N16 weights some 1360 kg, Evo X over 1400 kg. They are also much bigger and therefore much less nimble in twisty roads. Brakes and shock absorbers are sooner overheated in heavy car. You have to use harder tyres etc. I wouldn't underestimate also the suspension design. Much bigger suspension travel is huge advantage (also between older and newer S2000 cars or older and newer WRC cars).

You're right that new cars will be slower than current WRC but I don't see much wrong with that. The gap will be smaller on very fast roads and bigger on twisty ones like with curent S2000 but more.

[Francis44]

I can't imagine how this would go if they fitted in a really big turbo....That would be just pure speed.

[serial jeff]

I can't imagine how this would go if they fitted in a really big turbo....That would be just pure speed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_World_Rally_Championship_season

restrictors are very necessary... just have to find a good balance between impressive performance and safety. Plus, part of being a good driver is managing to make do with a little less power than you'd like.

[Mirek]

I'd like to point out another thing which is racing fuel. I don't see much sense in using expensive high performance fuel and in the same time restrictors for making output lower. Why not to use bigger restrictor and standard fuel which is 5x cheaper?

[RallyCat909]

Simple, either ban 4WD - or make the 4WD PWRC cars slower. In fact, just get rid of the PWRC - it's a worthless Championship!
The majority of road cars are 2WD - the majority of motorsport is RWD, so why stick with 4WD? It's proved it's point.


Andy, Im with you on this point. Perhaps you are with me, in a manner of speaking. I posted this about 5 years ago to deaf ears, but I still think it is a viable solution to the problem that the WRC is facing:





14th May 07, 20:28
Not to get off topic, but I have been saying for some years now that 4wd has made its point. It has also effectively made the visual aspect for spectators on stage and televison alike antiseptic particularly on tarmac events. Im sure that we can all agree that its faster in most respect as a rallycar performs.

Why not go back to RWD? The need for horsepower would be no more than 350-400 on gravel events, and tarmac would have the crowd pleasing drifts back in full effect. Most rally drivers agree that RWD cars are more fun for all involved anyway. So a limit on engines would be moot point. Perhaps the old marques like BMW, Porsche, and even Mercedes might return to top level rallying. We might even see the occasional Ferrari on tarmac events again. Not to mention lifting the mandate on manufacturers commiting to a full season.


I dunno, maybe I have been watching to many old rally 70s and 80s rally videos.

Can I get a witness? :)

[Bobcat]

What's wrong with paddle shift?
In general, it is very expensive.

[JFL]

In general, it is very expensive.

Depends on what type they should use.. If they all can use the same its going to be cheap..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUbi1epN0-c
Can be used with paddles or stick..

http://www.mastershift.com/
2500,-€ for this one.. ;)
I'm sure you can get some better....

[OldF]

Simple, either ban 4WD - or make the 4WD PWRC cars slower. In fact, just get rid of the PWRC - it's a worthless Championship!
The majority of road cars are 2WD - the majority of motorsport is RWD, so why stick with 4WD? It's proved it's point.

That wouldn’t be so cheap either. Converting a FWD car to a RWD car the same job has to be done to the bodyshell as know done with the S2000 cars. Further it also need a new gearbox, rear diff etc.
It would be like a S2000 without the front drive shafts.

[OldF]

To still continue with some issues about the new WRC cars.

The costs:

IMO if a S2000 today costs about 250000 – 300000 euros, taking out the NA2000 engine and putting in a 1.6T engine would not add the cost so much.

The S2000 cars has a sequential gearbox anyway (with no active centre differential) so adding a paddle shift to the gearbox won’t add so much cost (as JFL earlier mentioned).


Restrictor size and boost level:

IMO the restrictor size and boost level should be choose so that the best power would be somewhere between 7000 – 8000 rpm. Then we could have cars with the same sound as the B-group cars had or the A-group cars had somewhere between 1990-1995.

Remembering that the torque come from how much fuel/air mixture can get in to a cylinder per every intake stroke, higher boost level gives more torque (and of course more power) at lower rpm’s but the restrictor will at some point limit the airflow and with a high boost, the limit is reached at lower rpm.

Comparing a 1.6 engine to a 2.0 engine with the same boost level, a 2.0 engine can “inhale” about 25% (2.0/1.6 = 1,25) more air/fuel mixture per every intake stroke and therefore have about 25% higher torque compared to a 1.6 engine at the same rpm.

[RS]

IMO the restrictor size and boost level should be choose so that the best power would be somewhere between 7000 – 8000 rpm. Then we could have cars with the same sound as the B-group cars had or the A-group cars had somewhere between 1990-1995.


That would be excellent if it came true as one of the biggest problems IMO with the current WRCars is that they change gear at such low revs it sounds like they are driving to Tesco, and of course the drivers don't have to keep the car 'on the boil' either.

But back to the cost issue; if it is not the engine and not the paddle shift on the current cars making them so expensive, then what is it? A current WRCar costs somewhere between 2 and 3 times an S2000 I think?

[JFL]

Some of the reason its so expensive is that: They build few engines, gearboxes, and all other parts... And they want a lot of money for them..
If all cars have the same gearbox from one manufactor(sällholm, xtrac) it will be cheaper... Maybe they are 0,04 sec. slower to shift with, but they are more affordable...
It's now way that the gearbox offered by Citröen to PSWRT earlier this season is worth what they are claiming, but they can claim it, since they own it and there are a few made and that it's FIA approved...

[AMSS]

Regarding the most likely decrease in power, the drivers have themselves said that with a bit more power the cars would probably be more safe to drive as you can make up for some errors ( too much sliding, bad lines) with the throttle.
Now it is impossible as they even now don`t have enough of it.
You can also clearly see this "effect" on some super special stages with really long curves with lots of room as they have to drive one turn as 3 or 4 turns. With more power they could drive the hole turn as one.
Imagine a long narrow turn when the car suddenly stops sliding than you have to turn against and the sliding from side to side starts that`s what causes the crashes as well as the fact that the entrance speed has to be quite high because they don`t have the power to accelerate out of the corners. We would see a completely new driving style with more power I think.
However as usual the FIA don`t listen to the drivers.............

[OldF]

Regarding the most likely decrease in power, the drivers have themselves said that with a bit more power the cars would probably be more safe to drive as you can make up for some errors ( too much sliding, bad lines) with the throttle.
Now it is impossible as they even now don`t have enough of it.
You can also clearly see this "effect" on some super special stages with really long curves with lots of room as they have to drive one turn as 3 or 4 turns. With more power they could drive the hole turn as one.
Imagine a long narrow turn when the car suddenly stops sliding than you have to turn against and the sliding from side to side starts that`s what causes the crashes as well as the fact that the entrance speed has to be quite high because they don`t have the power to accelerate out of the corners. We would see a completely new driving style with more power I think.
However as usual the FIA don`t listen to the drivers.............

That is exactly what Marcus said when he drove rally cross car.

[RS]

Regarding the most likely decrease in power, the drivers have themselves said that with a bit more power the cars would probably be more safe to drive as you can make up for some errors ( too much sliding, bad lines) with the throttle.
Now it is impossible as they even now don`t have enough of it.
You can also clearly see this "effect" on some super special stages with really long curves with lots of room as they have to drive one turn as 3 or 4 turns. With more power they could drive the hole turn as one.
Imagine a long narrow turn when the car suddenly stops sliding than you have to turn against and the sliding from side to side starts that`s what causes the crashes as well as the fact that the entrance speed has to be quite high because they don`t have the power to accelerate out of the corners. We would see a completely new driving style with more power I think.
However as usual the FIA don`t listen to the drivers.............

Maybe that's safer, but does it reward the best drivers?

[AMSS]

Maybe that's safer, but does it reward the best drivers?
That`s exactly what it would do in my opinion, cause it would leave more options regarding lines etc. Now everybody have to drive more or less the same lines and rallying goes slightly more towards track racing.
Though I doubt that it would change dramatically as there usually is only one optimal line.
Anyway they will not increase the max power because it`s against their obvious policy...........

[AndyRAC]

More power than grip - that is what is needed!!

[AMSS]

Spot on

[Bobcat]

Ford takes step forward with new car http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/83564

By David Evans Thursday, May 13th 2010, 09:40 GMT
Ford has taken a significant step forward in the development of the Fiesta RS WRC, its next generation World Rally Car which takes over from the Focus in time for the start of next season.
Team director Malcolm Wilson has admitted for the first time that the all-new 1.6-litre turbocharged engine which will be used in next year's Fiesta RS WRC is up and running on a test bench at the team's headquarters in Cumbria.
With technical regulations only recently confirmed, the new motor is the last part of Ford's new car to come together. But Wilson is confident the engine will be in the car as planned in the late summer.
"There has been a version of the engine running at M-Sport for the last few weeks," he said. "There's a lot of work to do and the engine is evolving all the time.
"We're working on the solutions for various aspects, so this is by no means the final version of the engine that we will run in the car. We're working on things like the fuel pressure, which is going to run at 200-bar instead of six or seven bar of pressure which we have in the current car."
Wilson added that he expected the final version of the engine to ready in the next couple of months.
"I would say it's going to be July or August when we have the engine pretty much done in the workshop and then we'll look to have it in the car in September, as planned," he said.
The chassis work is already well underway for the Fiesta RS WRC, with the car running a very similar specification as the Fiesta Super 2000 car which is dominating this year's Super 2000 World Rally Championship.
In readiness for running a more powerful engine, the Fiesta RS WRC chassis has already run with the current two-litre turbocharged engine to test the reliability and performance of key transmission parts.

[handbrakes&hairpins]

Finally! It will be awesome to see in action!

[Bobcat]

Totally! :)

[JFL]

200bar fuelpressure? wow..

[Francis44]

200bar fuelpressure? wow..

Is that good or bad anyway?!

[Mirek]

200bar fuelpressure? wow..

It's direct injection, so it's no extreme ;)

[HaCo]

So the base is the S2000 chassis. The rules are clear (apparantly?), does somebody know them and willing to explain them here? :)

Kinda funny Loriaux explained in the past it would be totally impossible and way to expensive to convert an S2000 to a turbocharged WRC.

[PJRevs]

I think that story was about making turbo engine from S2000 engine with some kind of kit

[HaCo]

I think that story was about making turbo engine from S2000 engine with some kind of kit

As far as I can remember it was about transmission parts of an S2000 bering to light for a turbocharged engine.

[Brother John]

As far as I can remember it was about transmission parts of an S2000 bering to light for a turbocharged engine.

I think they mean with THE BASE only the frame. :p ;)

[Bobcat]

Privateer Fiesta WRCs expected for 2010 http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/privateer_fiesta_wrcs_expected_for_2010/

[It's JM]

IMO, it seems that the development for these cars are going really smooth. Looking at the Fiesta RS WRC and then looking at the DS3 WRC that is going under some really secretive testing, the 2011 WRC seems to be off to a good start. If we get the chance to see other factories entering other than Citroen and Ford, I bet more people will be back to watch.

[Bobcat]

Ford chief calls for hybrid technology in WRC http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/ford_chief_calls_for_hybrid_technology_in_wrc/

Report: Sporty RS Based On 2012 Ford Focus May Get Hybrid AWD System http://www.motorauthority.com/blog/1042258_report-sporty-rs-based-on-2012-ford-focus-may-get-hybrid-awd-system

That's great! Good things keep you waiting, don’t they?

[Red bull]

Ford chief calls for hybrid technology in WRC http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/ford_chief_calls_for_hybrid_technology_in_wrc/
WHAT IS HYBIRD TECHNOLOGY?

[AndyRAC]

Ford chief calls for hybrid technology in WRC http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/ford_chief_calls_for_hybrid_technology_in_wrc/
WHAT IS HYBIRD TECHNOLOGY?

Wow, about time. Sportscars/WTCC have had Diesels for about 4-5 years now. Porsche ran a hybrid in the Nurburgring 24 Hours, Peugeot have actually made a 908HDi FAP Hybrid, though haven't raced it, and Citroen have shown a C4 Hybrid.
So, yes, bring it in - show that the WRC is forward thinking.

[AMSS]

Juha Kankkunen who is a personal advisor to Jean Todt for the WRC, note NOT working for the FIA. Told a Finnish motorsport magazine that he will be pushing for engines with bigger restrictors so that the max power will be at least 350hp, and also reduce the current minimum weight by 50kg. With these solutions the cars will be alot more entertaining and also will separate the drivers skills more. He also wants more private teams in the WRC like Grifone was, and definately a Italian manufactorer in the series.
Ps. Sorry if this is in the wrong forum......

[Bobcat]

http://galeria.vezess.hu/files/012/039/000/39012/39012_298974_492x272.jpg

[jonas_mcrae]

http://galeria.vezess.hu/files/012/039/000/39012/39012_298974_492x272.jpg

nice... now lets see if it goes as it looks!

[serial jeff]

Nice looking car... that livery is definitely better too.

[MJW]

BP staying then?
Maybe BP's new slogan should be BP bringing oil to America.

[Red bull]

Wow, about time. Sportscars/WTCC have had Diesels for about 4-5 years now. Porsche ran a hybrid in the Nurburgring 24 Hours, Peugeot have actually made a 908HDi FAP Hybrid, though haven't raced it, and Citroen have shown a C4 Hybrid.
So, yes, bring it in - show that the WRC is forward thinking.
THANKS :s mokin:

[Red bull]

mmm nice car..... but problem still lays with signing drivers capable of beating loeb and the Ds3.

[HaCo]

And why oh why that big wing? :(

[Hartusvuori]

Where's that picture from? It sure looks nice.

[Walach]

Nice work in photoshop :-) That´s all.

[Red bull]

looks like the 2011 wrc :confused: :confused:

[Mirek]

That's Fiesta Mk 5, the older model. Photoshop again ;)

[Red bull]

yes 2006 fiesta and doesnt resemble the fiesta s2000 at all :cool:

[Bobcat]

Wilson eyes Fiesta WRC testing role http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/wilson_eyes_fiesta_wrc_testing_role/

[N.O.T]

very nice choice of testing driver....he has the rally skills of a boiled potato and its free.

[jonas_mcrae]

Matthew should quit WRC and just do testing for free, lets just hope his input into the new car is good, and not **** like his part in Stobart...

Im sure Matthew will only test the early version of the fiesta anyways, then Malcom will bring Martin, Kresta (?) Mikko and who knows, maybe Bosse, to do the proper job

[Mirek]

The article is about endurance testing. That's not much about development but about driving and driving and driving and braking things which have enough. You don't need the best test driver to do that.

On the other hand Matt may be good in development testing. Fast driver isn't automatically good test driver and vice versa.

[Rallyper]

]The article is about endurance testing. That's not much about development but about driving and driving and driving and braking things which have enough. You don't need the best test driver to do that.

On the other hand Matt may be good in development testing. Fast driver isn't automatically good test driver and vice versa.

:up: :up:

And Matt did the same on the Fiesta S2000, which so far has been a good new car...

[bluuford]

]The article is about endurance testing. That's not much about development but about driving and driving and driving and braking things which have enough. You don't need the best test driver to do that.

On the other hand Matt may be good in development testing. Fast driver isn't automatically good test driver and vice versa.

I think Henning would be the perfect man for endurance testing... all the things tend to fell in pieces on his hands :-P

I think Henning would be the perfect man for endurance testing... all the things tend to fell in pieces on his hands :-P

Endurance testing is good for him. he likes to use the ditch more than the road, including the rocks and anything else. :D

And the style is very aggressive, fast in the corner, balls out... but then the problem when you do that is you are often slow out of the corner (too much sideways) and the speed will be less all the way until next corner.

If a part will hold on his car then you can give it to anyone. :cool:

[Bobcat]

P-G Andersson has recently been (this week) testing the prototype version of the Ford Fiesta RS WRC.

http://www.rallybuzz.com/andersson-develops-fiestawrc/
http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/andersson_gets_closer_to_ford/

http://www.rally-mania.cz/img_news/big/9413_ilustracni_foto_33f82f2e5a.jpg

[Bobcat]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84906

Andersson backs 2011 WRC package

By David Evans Thursday, July 1st 2010, 09:57 GMT

P-G Andersson believes the next generation of World Rally Championship machinery will delight fans, after testing Ford's 2011 Fiesta RS WRC in Cumbria last week. There had been concerns that the switch from a two-litre to 1600cc engines might lessen the spectacle at the sport's highest level - with that worry echoed following the World Motor Sport Council's decision to ban the use of paddle-shift gearchanges in the next generation of World Rally Cars.
But Andersson is convinced there is nothing to fear from 2011.
"Okay, you have to move you arm a bit further to change the gear," said Andersson, "but it's not a problem. As a driver, the paddle-shift is easier, you just flick it, whereas without the hydraulics pulling the gearstick requires a bit more effort, but once you're in third gear and above you don't really notice."
Andersson completed some initial running in the Fiesta, which was fitted with the detuned engine from the current Focus in an effort to replicate the power output of next year's 1.6-turbo engine which is still being developed, at Kirkbride Airfield in Cumbria.
"The Fiesta was fantastic to drive, really good fun," said Andersson. "There's no doubt that the rally fans are going to enjoy this car next year. Of course, the engine is a little bit different for next year, but the action in the stages will be just the same - it will be fantastic car, especially for the forest."
As well as the decision to outlaw the use of paddle shifts, last week's World Motor Sport Council meeting also confirmed a 13-round calendar for next season and a return to competition among tyre manufacturers - with Pirelli's position as sole supplier to the WRC drawing to a close at the end of this season.
From next week's Rally Bulgaria, co-drivers' names will also return to the rear windows of cars competing in the WRC.

[Bobcat]

Test driving the prototype... http://www.fotosralis.online.pt/testeswrcford10/

[Xsara Fan]

Test driving the prototype... http://www.fotosralis.online.pt/testeswrcford10/

Fiseta WRC? When and where was this tests? Who was a test-pilot?

[Juha_Koo]

Fiseta WRC? When and where was this tests? Who was a test-pilot?

In the final pic the driver's helmet looks like Mikko's 2008 helmet... Not sure though.

[jbmarcus21]

Fiseta WRC? When and where was this tests? Who was a test-pilot?

Gerard Quinn on twitter, said the test took place in GB Forest in Cumbria.. with PG Andersson and Matthew Wilson ;)

[HaCo]

Is that already with 1.6T?

[Bobcat]

Is that already with 1.6T?
http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=814070&postcount=996

[Xsara Fan]

Gerard Quinn on twitter, said the test took place in GB Forest in Cumbria.. with PG Andersson and Matthew Wilson ;)

Ok. But why are people so sure that this photos was made at this tests? Was 'Diego Menichetti' one and only photographer who was at this tests? If not why there are no any other photos? For the moment I saw only Fiesta S2000 test-car at this photos...

[Bobcat]

Ok, Citroen Fan. ;) http://www.rallybuzz.com/pictures-fordfiestawrc/

http://www.rallybuzz.com/photos/Ford-Fiesta-WRC/34569_1488412581304_1563652967_1145065_6553625_n.j pg

http://www.rallybuzz.com/photos/Ford-Fiesta-WRC/34569_1488412501302_1563652967_1145063_3012387_n.j pg

[Xsara Fan]

Ok, Citroen Fan. ;) http://www.rallybuzz.com/pictures-fordfiestawrc/

http://www.rallybuzz.com/photos/Ford-Fiesta-WRC/34569_1488412581304_1563652967_1145065_6553625_n.j pg

http://www.rallybuzz.com/photos/Ford-Fiesta-WRC/34569_1488412501302_1563652967_1145063_3012387_n.j pg

Thanks, but it`s the same photos from the same source. But text from another source :)

[RICARDO75]

This is the S2000. On the photos from rallybuzz, the radiator is diferent.
But the plate PX 58 AXF is from an S2000 (Maurin - Monte Carlo and Mikkelsen - Sweden)
http://www.s2000rally.com/car-detail.php?car=234

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Ft7TgGoxwak/S73lN29jcHI/AAAAAAAAGEM/Yrzr7KhFXBs/s1600/Solowow+Fiesta+S2000a.jpg

[Allar]

isnt this MR. Solowow car?

[noel157]

Think the article in Rallybuzz is wrong saying that they used the 1.6T, I believe the engine was a detuned Focus engine, same as Citroen sport have done.

[RICARDO75]

isnt this MR. Solowow car?

Yes, this is Solowow car.
It was just to compare to the other photos.

[RICARDO75]

Think the article in Rallybuzz is wrong saying that they used the 1.6T, I believe the engine was a detuned Focus engine, same as Citroen sport have done.

I think that the 1.600 engine only be ready in August for the first test

[Francis44]

According to Gerard Quinn (Ford's Senior Manager) the 1.6L Turbo engine already "rocks".

So the pics and the test were in fact real.

http://twitter.com/WRCgerardquinn .

[HaCo]

That's why I asked... :)

[Francis44]

That's why I asked... :)

Do you have any more doubts?!

http://4gifs.com/gallery/d/162692-1/Bert_snaps.gif? . (http://4gifs.com/gallery/d/162692-1/Bert_snaps.gif?)

[HaCo]

No, but when I posed the question I still had doubts :)

[J4MIE]

Have to say I think it looks good... still curious how the new engines will sound though.

[Xsara Fan]

Photo from PG Andersson`s blog - '1.6L Ford Fiesta WRC. Tarmac test session'.

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/8097/46481825.jpg (http://img205.imageshack.us/i/46481825.jpg/)

[Mirek]

Photo from PG Andersson`s blog - '1.6L Ford Fiesta WRC. Tarmac test session'.

On gravel tyres?

[Bobcat]

For mixed surface stages, don't you know that?

[Mirek]

Hmm, do You actually believe they are testing for something like Cyprus 09 during current development tests? This combination of tarmac setup and gravel tyres hasn't been used in any other WRC event in last decade.

Anyway more interesting is that the car was already tested with FIA controlled turbocharger and that according to Mr. Wilson it used same transmission as current S2000 without reliability problems.

[Bobcat]

Hey, chill out! In 2010, gravel with some asphalt: Rally of Turkey, Rally New Zealand etc..

[Mirek]

Yes, of course, but in none of them they used tarmac suspension together with gravel tyres which is on the photo. Such combination was used only on Cyprus last year.

Such combination is in fact useless and no-one would choose to use it if he had other choice. In Cyprus they had no choice - regulations said they had to use gravel tyres for complete tarmac leg. It's completely different situation than few kilometers on tarmac in let's say 95% gravel leg like in Turkey or New Zealand.

Anyway, I just said I found it strange combination for development testing. Nothing more. Don't search for something else in my statement ;) Maybe they have some special reason for doing that and I would welcome explanation but I really don't believe it's some Cyprus-like issue.

[Rallyper]

]
Anyway, I just said I found it strange combination for development testing. Nothing more. Don't search for something else in my statement ;) Maybe they have some special reason for doing that and I would welcome explanation but I really don't believe it's some Cyprus-like issue.

Mirec!

Your answer is objective and correct as always.

That´s why you are high respected on this forum. :)

[br21]

is starts to be a little of topic I'm afraid, but this years catalunya rally will be interesting regarding tarmac/gravel setups and tires on different surfaces as stages will be very mixed

[Bobcat]

]Yes, of course, but in none of them they used tarmac suspension together with gravel tyres which is on the photo...
The tarmac suspension in the photo,.. oh boy, what if you're wrong? http://pgandersson.blogspot.com/

[Mirek]

Ups, I'm really sorry. For some reason I was thinking all the time that the Fiesta is on jack on the photo but it isn't. Once more sorry for useless argument.

[Mise]

Mirec!

Your answer is objective and correct as always.

That´s why you are high respected on this forum. :)


When in doubt see what Mirek is saying! :D

[OldF]

] and that according to Mr. Wilson it used same transmission as current S2000 without reliability problems.

That’s quite surprising because by this brochure http://www.xtrac.com/pdfs/532%20SUPER%202000%20RALLY%20REAR%20GEARBOX.pdf
the S2000 Xtrac gearbox can cope with “only” 250 Nm input torque from the engine. Maybe the safety margin is large enough. :confused:

[Rallyper]

When in doubt see what Mirek is saying! :D

well, I still hold on to my comment about Mirec.... :o

[Mise]

well, I still hold on to my comment about Mirec.... :o

Why wouldn't you. I ment the same thing.
He knows what hes talking.

[Bobcat]

]Ups, I'm really sorry. For some reason I was thinking all the time that the Fiesta is on jack on the photo but it isn't. Once more sorry for useless argument.
Firstly, the prototype Fiesta in the photo has a gravel suspension.
Secondly, look at it right in the future before making yourself omniscient, expert from Skoda.

[OldF]

Firstly, the prototype Fiesta in the photo has a gravel suspension.
Secondly, look at it right in the future before making yourself omniscient, expert from Skoda.

That’s not the way to answer someone who admits he made a mistake. Bobcat, maybe you as a newcomer on this forum is a little bit arrogant.

[dimviii]

+1@ΟldF

That’s quite surprising because by this brochure http://www.xtrac.com/pdfs/532%20SUPER%202000%20RALLY%20REAR%20GEARBOX.pdf
the S2000 Xtrac gearbox can cope with “only” 250 Nm input torque from the engine. Maybe the safety margin is large enough. :confused:

Sounds funny indeed. maybe its just same transmission housing....everything inside is different but he doesn't say that... :D

[navtheace]

Is S2000/S1.6T staying now?

FIA apparently are looking at R1, R2, R3, R4 (GpN) categories to be the top of rallying.

[Bobcat]

Bright future for Ford WRC... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNP8f-NVxsA

Ford Motorsport Manager Gerard Quinn talks about the development of the Fiesta WRC.

[Daniel]

Bright future for Ford WRC... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNP8f-NVxsA

Ford Motorsport Manager Gerard Quinn talks about the development of the Fiesta WRC.
Wow, he really seems pumped up. NOT

[Bobcat]

The Ford Fiesta WRC development is on track... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKx1s4QSuOM

Ford is working on its all-new Fiesta-based World Rally Car and the engine development for the next generation racer is at an advanced stage.

[Bobcat]

Ford’s Fiesta WRC set for six-day French test... http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/fords_fiesta_wrc_set_for_six-day_french_test/

[Daniel]

Ford’s Fiesta WRC set for six-day French test... http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/fords_fiesta_wrc_set_for_six-day_french_test/
Do you work for M-Sport or something?

[I am evil Homer]

Indeed...if you do at least front up and we might take it seriously. In fact I dare say many people would welcome your insights and input.

[Bobcat]

http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=828483&postcount=1063

[Mirek]

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xecrh0_test-fiesta-wrc-henning_auto
Henning with Fiesta in France, looks more atractive than in case of previous video of Matt.

[bluuford]

Malcolm must have read our discussion here about Henning being good endurance test driver:-)

[Bobcat]

]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xecrh0_test-fiesta-wrc-henning_auto
Henning with Fiesta in France, looks more atractive than in case of previous video of Matt.
http://gallery.atpic.com/fr/37117

[Bobcat]

http://wrc.is.free.fr/posts/2010/08/10/1225-photos-fiesta-wrc

http://wrc.is.free.fr/images/2010/tests/pre2011/fiestaFirstInFrance/matthewFiestaWRCTests.jpg

[Viridian Black]

http://gallery.atpic.com/fr/37117

video? :)

[Rando]

video? :)

Can be found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq03N3s80aU&feature=player_embedded

[Bobcat]

http://www.rallybuzz.com/ford-fiesta-wrc-test-video/

[Bobcat]

http://www.citizenside.com/en/photos/motor-sports/2010-08-03/27701/new-ford-fiesta-rs-wrc-2011-under-test-in-the-french-pyrenees-mountains.html

http://www.citizenside.com/en/photos/motor-sports/2010-08-03/27701/new-ford-fiesta-rs-wrc-2011-under-test-in-the-french-pyrenees-mountains/medium/158341-ford-fiesta-rs-wrc-2011-39.jpg

http://www.citizenside.com/en/photos/motor-sports/2010-08-03/27701/new-ford-fiesta-rs-wrc-2011-under-test-in-the-french-pyrenees-mountains/medium/158324-ford-fiesta-rs-wrc-2011-22.jpg

http://www.citizenside.com/en/photos/motor-sports/2010-08-03/27701/new-ford-fiesta-rs-wrc-2011-under-test-in-the-french-pyrenees-mountains/medium/158327-ford-fiesta-rs-wrc-2011-25.jpg

[HaCo]

Still no video of tarmac testing?

Thanks for the images, great posts!

[Bobcat]

Still no video of tarmac testing?

Thanks for the images, great posts!
Not, just some pictures... http://www.extremrallye.com/fiesta_wrc.html

http://www.extremrallye.com/_wp_generated/b459.jpg

http://www.extremrallye.com/_wp_generated/4d19.jpg

http://www.extremrallye.com/_wp_generated/be0e.jpg

[Allyc85]

Im liking these flame pics :D

[CABAIO E'LONA]

Im liking these flame pics :D

we all love those flames ... ;)

[Sulland]

Any chance of converting an existing S2000 car to a 1600T engine/gearbox/driveshaft version, or are there big differences in the suspension as well ?

[OldF]

Any chance of converting an existing S2000 car to a 1600T engine/gearbox/driveshaft version, or are there big differences in the suspension as well ?

As far as I know the suspension should be the same in S2000 and 1.6T WRC because 1.6T WRC is based on S2000.

[JFL]

Henning told me that he loved the new Fieasta WRC, and that it did'nt feel that much slower then the current WRC car.. He said that the engineers and engine builders were so good and finetuned the engine to perform really good.. He said that the cars next year will be more equal.. And quote :" that's really good for me!"
As for Rally Germany, the gearbox failure, was just a small glitch from the mechanics.. took them 5.min to repair.... they forgot to put on a "something" .. :)

[Bobcat]

As far as I know the suspension should be the same in S2000 and 1.6T WRC because 1.6T WRC is based on S2000.
However, this is not quite true. The suspension of the new Fiesta RS WRC will be different. I'm quite sure. ;)

[Sulland]

So no possibility to upgrade then ?

[Mirek]

I heard that in case of Fiesta it won't be possible, not confirmed though.

[dimviii]

]I heard that in case of Fiesta it won't be possible, not confirmed though.

i don t think that it is going to be possible for any s2k to be wrc car.

[Bobcat]

]I heard that in case of Fiesta it won't be possible, not confirmed though.
This is all just speculation for now. I think you are confused with the Fabia. :cheese:

[Mirek]

Why should I? I know couple of people running Fiestas...

[OldF]

However, this is not quite true. The suspension of the new Fiesta RS WRC will be different. I'm quite sure. ;)

Is this just your guess or do you have same information you don’t want / can’t share?

In the issue of the Finnish magazine “Vauhdin maailma” where Janne Tuohino’s Fiesta was introduced they tell: “That the Fiesta is concerning the suspension geometry as a improved version compared to current Focus WRC. There are also solutions that where planned for the Focus WRC but homologation restriction prevented to implement them”.

That’s why I wonder why it would be different.

[Mirek]

OldF: Focus uses trailing arms on the rear axle which is not possible under S2000 regulations (and new WRC also). Front McPherson struts are very similar in both cars, difference aside improved geometry is that Fiesta don't have ball bearings in higher suspension mounting points as they are not allowed for S2000.

The other difference is that S2000 cars must have all four shock absorbers of same type while Focus has different ones for front and rear axle (if I'm not mistaken).

[OldF]

I’m aware of that that in a S2000 all four dampers must be the same. That’s why also the rear dampers in the Fiesta are in similar angle compared to front dampers. The trailing arm was new for me. I know that in WRC they can choose from three different solutions: trailing arm, McPherson or the original. ;)

Know it then depends if the current WRC regulations regarding the suspension are also allowed in the 1.6T WRC. But if that is the case the why are they talking that the 1.6T WRC is based on S2000.

[Sulland]

Yes the bis Q is then; What does based on mean ? Is it fully or 100% based on, or just loosely based on.

It seems that the new regulations are made available to the manufacturers, why not to the public ?

[OldF]

Yes, little bit strange. The engine and presumably also the gearbox is different from S2000 and if also the suspension is different what are there left, the body shell. :confused:

[navtheace]

Some for sale here:
http://www.wrctrader.com/index.php?a=19&b%5Bsearch_text%5D=fiesta+s2000&c=0&b%5Bsearch_by_field%5D=all_fields&b%5Bsubcategories_also%5D=1

Maybe the sellers will then buy 1.6 Turbo versions instead?

[Mirek]

Tuohino is out of money, he won't most probably buy anything.

[AMSS]

]OldF: Focus uses trailing arms on the rear axle which is not possible under S2000 regulations (and new WRC also). Front McPherson struts are very similar in both cars, difference aside improved geometry is that Fiesta don't have ball bearings in higher suspension mounting points as they are not allowed for S2000.

The other difference is that S2000 cars must have all four shock absorbers of same type while Focus has different ones for front and rear axle (if I'm not mistaken).

Wait a second, ballbearings in higher mounting points forbidden? Is it really so? I think that it is the ballbearing patron used for the damper body as a slide bearing that is forbidden not in the top mounting parts. This ballbearing patron was quite fragile for dust etc. And therefore high in maintanance costs, that`s why it is forbidden. To my knowledge and also on the S2000 I´ve seen there are normal ballbearings in the topmounts!

[Mirek]

Ah, sorry, You're right, my fault ;)

[OldF]

Wait a second, ballbearings in higher mounting points forbidden? Is it really so? I think that it is the ballbearing patron used for the damper body as a slide bearing that is forbidden not in the top mounting parts. This ballbearing patron was quite fragile for dust etc. And therefore high in maintanance costs, that`s why it is forbidden. To my knowledge and also on the S2000 I´ve seen there are normal ballbearings in the topmounts!


Where does this ball bearing actually situate in the damper?

Christian Loriaux also talks about the ball bearings in the dampers.

“However, new FIA rules which ban ball bearings in the dampers meant that significant research was needed into reducing the friction losses.”

http://fiestas2000.com/index.php/technical-a-parts/technical-information


BTW there are quite detailed information about the R2’s parts and prices on M-Sport’s web site (R2).

Parts list: http://fiestar2.com/index.php/component/remository/func-startdown/70/

Price lists: http://fiestar2.com/index.php/component/remository/Downloads/Price-Lists/

Main page for downloads: http://fiestar2.com/index.php/component/remository/Downloads/

[AMSS]

Where does this ball bearing actually situate in the damper?

Christian Loriaux also talks about the ball bearings in the dampers.

“However, new FIA rules which ban ball bearings in the dampers meant that significant research was needed into reducing the friction losses.”

http://fiestas2000.com/index.php/technical-a-parts/technical-information


BTW there are quite detailed information about the R2’s parts and prices on M-Sport’s web site (R2).

Parts list: http://fiestar2.com/index.php/component/remository/func-startdown/70/

Price lists: http://fiestar2.com/index.php/component/remository/Downloads/Price-Lists/

Main page for downloads: http://fiestar2.com/index.php/component/remository/Downloads/

They use the ballbearing set, which actually looks somewhat like a round hollow filter fild with tiny metal balls, as a slide bearing between the damper outer strut body and the damber tube. It`s purpose was to have as little friction as possible compared to standard slide bearings but with minimal gap. They have nowadays however figured out a new system where the slide bearing is attached to the damper tube and they only use a fixed guide bearing in the bottom. This system also has quit low friction.

[rp]

Will it be possible to convert an existing Fiesta S2000 to a Fiesta RS WRC?

Gerard Quinn: (Director of Motorsport, Ford of Europe)
" It will be but probably more efficient to buy a Fiesta RS WRC as there will be a lot of changes from the existing S2000 car "

http://twitter.com/WRCgerardquinn/status/21892868235

Anybody here knows if the REIGER shocks on Fords have the "fast rebound" (I think it is called like that) technology in them ??

It is a system which makes the wheel get back to contact with ground much faster in bumpy roads when the wheel lifts in the air, thus improving traction.

The system was originally invented and patented by DONNERRE shock absorbers. I believe it was copied by REIGER and the two are now in lawsuit.

I saw some REIGERs for sale for a Gr N LANCER, advertising the fast rebound so that's why I ask.

?

[Xsara Fan]

Will it be possible to convert an existing Fiesta S2000 to a Fiesta RS WRC?

Gerard Quinn: (Director of Motorsport, Ford of Europe)
" It will be but probably more efficient to buy a Fiesta RS WRC as there will be a lot of changes from the existing S2000 car "

http://twitter.com/WRCgerardquinn/status/21892868235

OMG! Quinn become a spammer! ;)

[AMSS]

Anybody here knows if the REIGER shocks on Fords have the "fast rebound" (I think it is called like that) technology in them ??

It is a system which makes the wheel get back to contact with ground much faster in bumpy roads when the wheel lifts in the air, thus improving traction.

The system was originally invented and patented by DONNERRE shock absorbers. I believe it was copied by REIGER and the two are now in lawsuit.

I saw some REIGERs for sale for a Gr N LANCER, advertising the fast rebound so that's why I ask.

?
It`s called Rebound Control Valve(RCV) and yes they have it. Who infact invented it i don`t know

thanks, good to know.

[Bobcat]

Hirvonen and Latvala get set to sample new Fiesta... http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/hirvonen_and_latvala_get_set_to_sample_new_fiesta/

Ford factory drivers Mikko Hirvonen and Jari-Matti Latvala will have their first taste of the new Fiesta WRC at a test between the rallies of France and Spain in October.

[navtheace]

Rear arches and rear bumper totally unmatched on the Fiesta makes it ideal for a Max Power cover car feature.

[Bobcat]

First viewing of Fiesta WRC set for Paris show... http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/first_viewing_of_fiesta_wrc_set_for_paris_show/

Is it me or does it seem late in the development of that car already for the two lead drivers to test it for first time ?
It seems like Citroen was putting their top drivers in the DS3 much earlier in the first stages of development.

As we heard somewhere in his interview Wilson jr already drove some 2.000km in the FIESTA WRC ?!?
Ok in the beginning it is mainly about testing reliability, but how do you test reliability with a guy who has no clue about driving to the limit ?
Also wouldn't it be better to get the top drivers in the car right from the beginning, so that, in case there are changes to do M-Sport would actually have time to do it and homologuate ? Are they even trying to beat Citroen ?? The DS3 WRC was already driving with a detuned 2L engine months ago with LOEB and SORDO....

As far as I remember when the 2003 Focus was being developped it was Martin and Higgins who drove from the start and not a guy like Wilson jr....

If they make fundamental mistakes like that I won't be surprised when once again Citroen will be a couple steps ahead of Ford.

[Mintexmemory]

[quote="Kaffi"]IsAs we heard somewhere in his interview Wilson jr already drove some 2.000km in the FIESTA WRC ?!?
Ok in the beginning it is mainly about testing reliability, but how do you test reliability with a guy who has no clue about driving to the limit ?
quote]

Don't fall into the trap of believing that Matt W can't drive on the limit. The bulk of the testing will be in Grizedale which he knows blindfold and for which all sorts of comparison times in various conditions are available, not just from M-Sport work but actual rally stage times. It would be interesting to see the top 3 fastest times on the longest combination that is used

I hear your point and still I say any top driver will be on another planet compared to Wilson jr, as it has shown on every Special stage run in the WRC in the past five years (except super specials), no matter how well Wilson knows the road. lets take Wales which he has done the most, at no time has he been able to rival with top guys, ever, not anywhere even on a stage like cricken or halfway which I am sure he knows blindfold as well.

Lets not kid ourselves here people, Wilson jr will NEVER be on par with the MCRAE, BURNS, SAINZ, LOEB, GRONHOLM, MARTIN, SORDO, MAKINEN, HIRVONEN, LATVALA, etc...

Wilson jr is AS good as his last rally... usually between 1 and 2 sec per km behind the leader, and sometimes but very rare under 1 sec when the roads suit him and his car a little better.

[Macd]

Just you wait, he will be champion after this five year plan. :s pin:

[N.O.T]

I highly doubt wilson is used as a DEVELOPER driver.....

he probably just racks up the miles in the car to see what breaks and what stays in place. Driving to the limit is one thing and if wilson runs a road 100 times i think he has the skills to be close to Loeb (but i think that any rally driver can do that).

In order to be a developer you have to be good at giving feedback after driving the car to its limits or close by. By driving the same road a million times and be fast proves you have a good memory not that you can drive.

if you are right then it means that up until now and until next october there has been no development driver doing anything in this car.....? Just Wilson racking up miles.
I can see your point. It is even worse than I thought.

[Mirek]

At least PG and Henning did several thousand kilometers in Fiesta also.

In fiesta WRC prototype ? I guess they must have signed confidentiality contract with M-Sport then.
But even then perhaps I can see why PRODRIVE could be interested in PG....

Now that I think of it there is indeed ONE advantage to using Wilson jr as a driver for the new FIESTA WRC car :

There is no risk whatsoever that he will be hired by another team and share what he has learned with them.

[Mirek]

Yes, in Fiesta WRC

It is obvious from looking at footage from japan that the CITROEN is the most driver friendly car around.

I am sure that on paper the FORD and CITROEN are almost equal in performance, but for OGIER to achieve a win in a fast, technical and tricky rally like japan on his FIRST go comes down to him being very skilled but especially he is in TOTAL TRUST and HARMONY with his car.

There are no surprises when you drive the CITROEN, and you can take it very close to the limit, easily.

The FORD on the other hand, is built for performance but not taking the driver's confidence into account. To go fast, both Hirvonen and Latvala have to go outside of their comfot zone and thats when mistakes happen.

You can really see this fundamental difference in thinking from engineering point of view from fact that Hirvonen and Latvala will get first drive of the Fiesta in October while the Citroen boys have driven the DS3 since january !! In simple terms Loeb and co. have already driven the DS3 for months over all kinds of roads and fine tuned the car for each conditions, made necessary handling changes and will even have time to test specifically the MICHELINS and fine tune even more before the first rally.

Obviously, at FORD, the driver's input comes close to last on their list of priorities. This is why they have been dominated since and this trend will continue, unfortunately for the sport.

Somebody with power should have the balls to tell Malcolm Wilson to change his thinking in the interest of the sport and the FORD brand so we can have non-citroen-driver champion again next year !

PLEASE ! :(

[Mintexmemory]

It is obvious from looking at footage from japan that the CITROEN is the most driver friendly car around.

I am sure that on paper the FORD and CITROEN are almost equal in performance, but for OGIER to achieve a win in a fast, technical and tricky rally like japan on his FIRST go comes down to him being very skilled but especially he is in TOTAL TRUST and HARMONY with his car.

There are no surprises when you drive the CITROEN, and you can take it very close to the limit, easily.

The FORD on the other hand, is built for performance but not taking the driver's confidence into account. To go fast, both Hirvonen and Latvala have to go outside of their comfot zone and thats when mistakes happen.

You can really see this fundamental difference in thinking from engineering point of view from fact that Hirvonen and Latvala will get first drive of the Fiesta in October while the Citroen boys have driven the DS3 since january !! In simple terms Loeb and co. have already driven the DS3 for months over all kinds of roads and fine tuned the car for each conditions, made necessary handling changes and will even have time to test specifically the MICHELINS and fine tune even more before the first rally.

Obviously, at FORD, the driver's input comes close to last on their list of priorities. This is why they have been dominated since and this trend will continue, unfortunately for the sport.

Somebody with power should have the balls to tell Malcolm Wilson to change his thinking in the interest of the sport and the FORD brand so we can have non-citroen-driver champion again next year !

PLEASE ! :(

Malcolm Wilson runs M-Sport largely funded (if not exclusively) by Ford Europe. He is given a finite budget and is obviously told to go and win the WRC for that amount of money. I don't believe that the same amount of money available to Citroen competition department is available to M-sport.
So how, pray, can he conduct huge amounts of testing (including accomodation and transport) when he can't afford it? I'm sure he would love to, but he has two choices - carry on competing with the funding handicap or take up fishing and shooting in the Lake District. What would you do if rallying was your life?

[Bobcat]

I don't believe that the same amount of money available to Citroen competition department is available to M-sport.
What if Wilson/M-Sport had used the same amount of money??? And what is his budget for Ford's primary manufacturer team???

So how, pray, can he conduct huge amounts of testing (including accomodation and transport) when he can't afford it? I'm sure he would love to, but he has two choices - carry on competing with the funding handicap or take up fishing and shooting in the Lake District. What would you do if rallying was your life?

I don't follow you, because he is doing the testing. This car has already been driven for thousands of kilometers !

The problem that I see is that the car has not been driven by it's two official drivers yet. The two drivers who are so called going to fight for wins next year !!

Why does Prodrive put Markko Martin in the car on it's first tests ? They could have put any shmo in it just to rack up the miles.

M-Sport decides the best person for this job is Wilson jr.

See the problem. For me this is AMATEUR leadership, nothing else.

[DonJippo]

You can really see this fundamental difference in thinking from engineering point of view from fact that Hirvonen and Latvala will get first drive of the Fiesta in October while the Citroen boys have driven the DS3 since january !! In simple terms Loeb and co. have already driven the DS3 for months over all kinds of roads and fine tuned the car for each conditions, made necessary handling changes and will even have time to test specifically the MICHELINS and fine tune even more before the first rally.

In the latest issue of Vauhdin Maailma magazine (finnish motorsport magazine) is Loeb's interview, which was made after Rally Germany. In this interview Loeb says that he has had three test days with new WRC untill that time. This is ofcourse three days more than what Hirvonen or Latvala have got but it seems that atleast Loeb has not tested new car so much as you would think of.

[Bobcat]

http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/upgrades_planned_for_super_2000_fiesta/
Although Wilson wouldn’t go into specifics he said some of the learnings from the Fiesta-based World Rally Car, currently under development by M-Sport in preparation for its debut in 2011, would be transferred onto the S2000 derivative.

“What we’re leaning through testing with the WRC [Fiesta] we can transfer back and hopefully it will be even more competitive next season,” said Wilson. “We’ll be announcing the details [of the upgrades] before the end of the season.”

[Bobcat]

http://www.supermotores.net/sm/fotos.asp?id=194
http://twitpic.com/photos/WRCgerardquinn

http://www.supermotores.net/images/galeria/fiestawrc00002.jpg

http://www.supermotores.net/images/galeria/fiestawrc00004.jpg

http://www.supermotores.net/images/galeria/fiestawrc00005.jpg

http://www.supermotores.net/images/galeria/fiestawrc00001.jpg

http://www.supermotores.net/images/galeria/fiestawrc00006.jpg

[Bobcat]

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/paris-motor-show-2010/paris-motor-show-fords-new-fiesta-wrc/253045/pictures/paris-motor-show-fords-new-fiesta-wrc.aspx

http://cdn.images.autocar.co.uk/612x408FFFFFF/NonCar/Ford/Fiesta/Ford-Fiesta-3091010122315780612x408.jpg

http://cdn.images.autocar.co.uk/612x408FFFFFF/NonCar/Ford/Fiesta/Ford-Fiesta-3091010122315405612x408.jpg

http://cdn.images.autocar.co.uk/612x408FFFFFF/NonCar/Ford/Fiesta/Ford-Fiesta-3091010122316124612x408.jpg

http://cdn.images.autocar.co.uk/612x408FFFFFF/NonCar/Ford/Fiesta/Ford-Fiesta-3091010122316468612x408.jpg

http://cdn.images.autocar.co.uk/612x408FFFFFF/NonCar/Ford/Fiesta/Ford-Fiesta-3091010122316859612x408.jpg

[Bobcat]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RwZUW0g84I

[dimviii]

Wow!! very raw look the wrc fiesta! :eek:

[Bobcat]

The Ford Fiesta RS WRC is powered by a 1.6-litre four-cylinder Ford EcoBoost turbo engine. http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=33323

Gerard Quinn, Ford of Europe's Motorsport chief, has overseen the Ford development programme throughout 2010 and says: "We're delighted to preview the Ford Fiesta RS WRC in such a prominent Motor Show as Paris. There are significant visual differences from the Fiesta S2000 base car as well as major changes under the skin. The biggest, of course, is the 1.6-litre Ford EcoBoost turbo engine - the original version of which was developed by Ford's Powertrain Engineering team."
http://www.paris2010.fordmedia.eu/photos/lowres/Ford-Fiesta-RS-WRC-05.jpg

http://www.paris2010.fordmedia.eu/photos/lowres/Ford-Fiesta-RS-WRC-06.jpg

http://www.paris2010.fordmedia.eu/photos/lowres/Ford-Fiesta-RS-WRC-11.jpg

http://www.paris2010.fordmedia.eu/photos/lowres/Ford-Fiesta-RS-WRC-04.jpg

http://www.paris2010.fordmedia.eu/photos/lowres/Ford-Fiesta-RS-WRC-13.jpg

[GallardoGT]

The Ford Fiesta RS WRC seems to have extreme camber for the rear wheels!? Will that be normal next year?

[Macd]

The Ford Fiesta RS WRC seems to have extreme camber for the rear wheels!? Will that be normal next year?

Its a show car. I expect they have done that to get the car as low as possible .

[Bobcat]

The car is powered by the 1.6-litre Ford EcoBoost turbo engine - the original version of which was developed by Ford's Powertrain Engineering team, said Gerard Quinn. Specialist engineers from Ford and M-Sport have co-operated closely in the development of this 1.6-litre engine, with highly-respected French tuner Pipo Moteur bringing additional expertise to the power plant.

It is our objective to deliver all cars on time for Rally Sweden 2011, said Gerard Quinn.

[navtheace]

Can the Fiesta S2000 be converted into a Fiesta WRC?

[OldF]

Can the Fiesta S2000 be converted into a Fiesta WRC?

http://www.rallyforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=834006&postcount=163

[ste898]

Car looks awesome BUT I just hope that the livery is better than the dire efforts from M-Sport over last few seasons

[N.O.T]

the camber of the rear wheels is quite visible ..... the car really looks like a beast i like it...pity the citroen didn;t follow the trend.

[Bobcat]

Both factory Ford drivers Hirvonen and Latvala will drive the new Ford Fiesta RS WRC in Spain, next week after the Rallye de France. The car has already completed nearly 3000 kilometres of testing in the hands of Matthew Wilson, P-G Andersson and Henning Solberg but the Spain test will be the first time though that the Fiesta RS WRC runs in its definitive 2011 specification.

[OldF]

Ford Fiesta RS WRC test.

http://www.youtube.com/user/FordWRC

Ford Fiesta RS WRC explained.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjOYsJbJ1qY&feature=fvsr

[Bobcat]

Ford Fiesta RS WRC test.

http://www.youtube.com/user/FordWRC

Ford Fiesta RS WRC explained.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjOYsJbJ1qY&feature=fvsr
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RI6YECGJAlM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab0TUyxEgXM

Funny how they used all sorts of video editing effects, fast forwarding etc.. to make it look like Wilson jr is actually going fast with the car.

By the way his performance in Alsace was majestic....what a talented top driver.

[Bobcat]

http://www.rallybuzz.com/ford-fiesta-wrc-test-vid2/

[sal]

M Sport will not be selling any cars until 2012 at the earliest and all cars next year (10 or so) will be for satellite teams like Stobart. A new rush of paranoia is gripping the wrc as Citroen are playing the same game..

[Frozzy]

so are they going to run in that m-sport based livery next season or do they still have sponsorship from Abu Dahbi? like on the current focuses

[Mirek]

M Sport will not be selling any cars until 2012 at the earliest and all cars next year (10 or so) will be for satellite teams like Stobart. A new rush of paranoia is gripping the wrc as Citroen are playing the same game..

I think that reason for that is simple. All cars they'll be able to produce or almost all of them already have customers for next year's WRC campaign. With some price limits for new cars and parts from FIA it's much more profitable way for M-Sport to run those cars themselves - prices for renting are not limited anyhow, so they can make much more money this way.

Anyway IRC, ERC and most of national championships stays with normal S2000 next year.

[Rally Power]

I think that reason for that is simple. All cars they'll be able to produce or almost all of them already have customers for next year's WRC campaign. With some price limits for new cars and parts from FIA it's much more profitable way for M-Sport to run those cars themselves - prices for renting are not limited anyhow, so they can make much more money this way.

Anyway IRC, ERC and most of national championships stays with normal S2000 next year.

So, no Fiesta SP (S1.6T) version for 2011?

What about SP in IRC, will they be allowed?

[MJW]

So, no Fiesta SP (S1.6T) version for 2011?

What about SP in IRC, will they be allowed?

No, not for 2011 at least, IRC stays with tradituonal S2000 / N4

[Mirek]

1.6T won't be allowed in any FIA championship except WRC in 2011.

[Allyc85]

Do you know if they will be allowed in a British championship like the BTRDA?

[MJW]

Do you know if they will be allowed in a British championship like the BTRDA?
I dont know but I think that with a 10 car build for WRC I dont think M-Sport will have the capacity to build a car for BTRDA in the early days.

[OldF]

That’s probably one reason why SWRC 2011 is with S2000 (NA). The teams haven’t resources to build enough cars. Taking into account the cars are new from 2011, they’ve some development to do yet.

[Rally Power]

1.6T won't be allowed in any FIA championship except WRC in 2011.

Then if you order a SP Mini you'll have to wait till 2012 to rally it?
http://www.motoringfile.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Mini-rally-car-sales-package.pdf

And what about the Fabia, if Skoda remains at the IRC they won´t be abble to homologate the 1.6T car next season?

Even knowing there's little time to produce new cars, it´s strange that new 2011 regs about S2000 1.6T cars won´t be aplicated, meaning that we'll see no new cars at IRC (and SWRC) during 2011 (no 1.6T and homologation of NA S2000 only permited till the end of 2010).

[rubla]

i had chance to be on pr event where Ott Tänak's Fiesta S2000 was unveiled for local sponsors. Some rumors which circulated there: M.Märtin had some time ago tested Fiesta S2000 and pointed out that rear shocks were not good enough, causing car to be unstable on high speed bends. When Ott went off and got stuck in similar situation in Finland recently, Märtin took phone call to M-Sport to speed them up in delivering new shocks. Unfortunately those did not arrive by last week, so Märtin tested car on wednesday and decided to set limiter on top speed for weekends Saaremaa Rally. Thus on faster stages (as said in radio interview) Ott was "picking his nose" as car had too low top speed of 169 kmh...

This info might seem bit irrelevant in wrc context, but as we know lot of experiences learned on S2000 wil be taken over for wrc, so i thought it might be interesting for at least some of you :D

[Mirek]

Then if you order a SP Mini you'll have to wait till 2012 to rally it?
http://www.motoringfile.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Mini-rally-car-sales-package.pdf

And what about the Fabia, if Skoda remains at the IRC they won´t be abble to homologate the 1.6T car next season?

Even knowing there's little time to produce new cars, it´s strange that new 2011 regs about S2000 1.6T cars won´t be aplicated, meaning that we'll see no new cars at IRC (and SWRC) during 2011 (no 1.6T and homologation of NA S2000 only permited till the end of 2010).

I think that it actually is good move by FIA. If they allow these cars elsewhere right from start how many of them would start outside WRC till the end of 2011? I'm sure very few and rarely more than one or two per event. Also the price now when there are no second hand cars will be very high for users outside WRC.



i had chance to be on pr event where Ott Tänak's Fiesta S2000 was unveiled for local sponsors. Some rumors which circulated there: M.Märtin had some time ago tested Fiesta S2000 and pointed out that rear shocks were not good enough, causing car to be unstable on high speed bends. When Ott went off and got stuck in similar situation in Finland recently, Märtin took phone call to M-Sport to speed them up in delivering new shocks. Unfortunately those did not arrive by last week, so Märtin tested car on wednesday and decided to set limiter on top speed for weekends Saaremaa Rally. Thus on faster stages (as said in radio interview) Ott was "picking his nose" as car had too low top speed of 169 kmh...

This info might seem bit irrelevant in wrc context, but as we know lot of experiences learned on S2000 wil be taken over for wrc, so i thought it might be interesting for at least some of you :D

With tarmac short gearbox and tarmac tyres Fiesta has top speed 171 km/h, so it was probably same gearing.

[rubla]

With tarmac short gearbox and tarmac tyres Fiesta has top speed 171 km/h, so it was probably same gearing.

I dont know about gearing but as this was gravel rally, then tarmac tires is not the case.

[Mirek]

I know it was gravel but that's very small difference for speed. Tarmac and gravel tyres have same diameter, the difference is only in different pressure and more wheel-spin on gravel (thus slightly different dynamic diameter) ;)

[rubla]

I know it was gravel but that's very small difference for speed. Tarmac and gravel tyres have same diameter, the difference is only in different pressure and more wheel-spin on gravel (thus slightly different dynamic diameter) ;)

whatever. i found article where Tänak himself also uses wording "speed limiter" - http://www.saartehaal.ee/index.php?content=artiklid&sub=15&artid=21732
but what was point of my post, is that they have some issues with rear suspension.

[Mirek]

ok, no problem

[Bobcat]

http://wrc.is.free.fr/posts/2010/10/12/1256-mikko-et-jml-au-volant-de-la-fiesta-wrc

http://wrc.is.free.fr/images/2010/tests/pre2011/mikkoFiestWRCCatMid.jpg

[Bobcat]

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/7636/65983159425094078235100.jpg

[N.O.T]

photoshop

[MJW]

photoshop I think you are correct - BF Goodrich? I thought the Michelin brand was the one to be used, also what confirmation that BP/Castrol will be the oil supplier? The Prodrive Mini had Castrol branding on at the Paris show launch.

[Bobcat]

http://www.abstraxi.com/images/original/1532628e031f584b4cb0114498802fe2.jpg

http://www.abstraxi.com/images/original/c89951668d09411a9afd48961fa1ee28.jpg

http://www.abstraxi.com/images/original/ecae664aa2574890366066fb0c3b24ea.jpg

http://www.abstraxi.com/images/original/8745e519e0b6908e3a70503111463979.jpg

http://www.abstraxi.com/images/original/67556a7a3e68480e1a73e6ebef7a059d.jpg

[N.O.T]

photoshop...a bad one.

[Bobcat]

Mikko.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deGFA0L4tjI

[N.O.T]

it doesn't look that fast....

[Allyc85]

Yep a grainy movie on youtube, the perfect way to judge a cars pace :p

[Francis44]

What I know is that judging the recent videos from Portugal DS3 tests is that the car is way fast, I might be talking nonsense but the car looked to me as fast or faster than the C4 already, so Ford may want to look at that and think.

[ste898]

http://www.abstraxi.com/images/original/1532628e031f584b4cb0114498802fe2.jpg

http://www.abstraxi.com/images/original/c89951668d09411a9afd48961fa1ee28.jpg

http://www.abstraxi.com/images/original/ecae664aa2574890366066fb0c3b24ea.jpg

http://www.abstraxi.com/images/original/8745e519e0b6908e3a70503111463979.jpg

http://www.abstraxi.com/images/original/67556a7a3e68480e1a73e6ebef7a059d.jpg

That takes some skill to do all that but please please dont let it be that horrid livery again!!!!

[DonJippo]

I might be talking nonsense but the car looked to me as fast or faster than the C4 already, so Ford may want to look at that and think.

Like you put it yourself, that's nonsense.

[cali]

DS3 was driven on dry gravel vs. Fiesta on wet gravel - not a way to judge the speed of both cars (even on video)....

[mm1]

BTW Fiesta is climbing a hill in that video.

[I am evil Homer]

That photoshopped livery is a mess....way to busy with too may logos fighting for space

[cali]

That photoshopped livery is a mess....way to busy with too may logos fighting for space

It has been like that since 2007 I think, problably most horrible livery in WRC history and this "new" one isn't any better (ok, maybe the back of the car is slightly better)....any objections?

[Red bull]

if ford have build 10 fietas wrc cars 2 for the main team,2stortbart,1monster,1 villagra who are the other lucky 4 drivers or they are spare cars just in case of serious crash? :s mokin:

[rallyfiend]

if ford have build 10 fietas wrc cars 2 for the main team,2stortbart,1monster,1 villagra who are the other lucky 4 drivers or they are spare cars just in case of serious crash? :s mokin:

3 BPFAD (+ Al Qassimi)
1 Stobart (Matthew)
1 Henning
2 Monster
1 Munchis

[Red bull]

and whos the other monster driver apart 4rm block :rolleyes: ?

[I am evil Homer]

Block needs two for himself....one for promo burnouts, one for rally ;)

[Gard]

if ford have build 10 fietas wrc cars 2 for the main team,2stortbart,1monster,1 villagra who are the other lucky 4 drivers or they are spare cars just in case of serious crash? :s mokin: Each driver needs atleast two cars. so 10 cars is probably just about enough for the ones listed.

[Red bull]

Block needs two for himself....one for promo burnouts, one for rally ;)
HELL WHAT A WASTE :mad: :mad: :mad:

[mm1]

Don`t take evrything so seriously :)

[Bobcat]

http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/ford_drivers_get_their_go/

“I know how good the chassis is,” said Hirvonen. “It was a great car in Monte Carlo.”

Hirvonen also tested the early Fiesta which was fitted with a de-tuned Focus RS WRC engine, but this is the first time he and Latvala have driven the 1.6-litre-engined car.

[Red bull]

IT hurts 2c young promising talents with enough budget looking for a drive bt cant be given a chance jst coz someone with a bigger budget has to 2 cars to waste,its a real shame,what is mathew doing at stortberg are they really happy with his perfomance or jst bcs daddy is the team boss :confused:

[Karukera]

A nice car spoiled by an ugly kebab livery. :arrows:

[I am evil Homer]

IT hurts 2c young promising talents with enough budget looking for a drive bt cant be given a chance jst coz someone with a bigger budget has to 2 cars to waste,its a real shame,what is mathew doing at stortberg are they really happy with his perfomance or jst bcs daddy is the team boss :confused:

It's not really any different a situation that Alex Forio getting the Jolly Club ride years ago...alebit he was marginally better driver than Wilson. There were plenty of more 'deserving' people of a semi-works Delta but they didn't get it, Alex did.

I think 2011 will be Wilson's last at Stobart as someone will come along with more cash to take the seat.

[N.O.T]

IT hurts 2c young promising talents with enough budget looking for a drive bt cant be given a chance jst coz someone with a bigger budget has to 2 cars to waste,its a real shame,what is mathew doing at stortberg are they really happy with his perfomance or jst bcs daddy is the team boss :confused:

you just brought the english language to a whole new level.....

are you serious son ?

It's not really any different a situation that Alex Forio getting the Jolly Club ride years ago...alebit he was marginally better driver than Wilson. There were plenty of more 'deserving' people of a semi-works Delta but they didn't get it, Alex did.

I think 2011 will be Wilson's last at Stobart as someone will come along with more cash to take the seat.

As of right now and since a while already Malcolm knows that his kid is not going anywhere as a driver in rallysport. He is in denial and there is a number of factors pushing him to continue to suppot his son.
It is basic psychology, and something that people need to understand is that the REAL support comes from the kid's mother. She is fully supporting this endeavour, even more than dad. As long as mom backs the kid, dad will never attempt to "redirect" his son into a career which will better suit him and ESPECIALLY cost less money!!! We all know that Wilson is very tight with money. MONEY MONEY MONEY runs his mind. Whatever the consequences.

The worst is that the kid has no idea he is just a tool, being used by his parents so that maybe he can achieve as a driver what his dad failed to do before him.

it doesn't matter if his dad even loses money to run his son's car. he will do it anyway not to upset the wife, or out of sheer pride.

If he backs out now it will be like admitting that all the talk and praises about his son for the past 5 years was just bull****.

Had that kid been anyone else he would have gotten the BOOT a long time ago unless he can come up like everyone else with the 150 to 200k Euros per rally, period.

I predict that we will continue to see the kid driving in WRC for the years to come indefinitely until he matures and realises he is living a fantasy and decides to break the umbilical cord that connects him to mommy and daddy. Then he will be free to take his life in his OWN hands and do something for himself.


just my 2 cents... :vader:

[I am evil Homer]

I see your point but Malcolm was a very decent driver...far more so than Matthew. Not a world beater but fast.

[AMSS]

looks a lot faster in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSJ4ofHtfcg

[JTGANG]

looks a lot faster in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSJ4ofHtfcg

Look what Mikko is doing at about 2':28" :eek: :eek: :eek:

[dimviii]

Look what Mikko is doing at about 2':28" :eek: :eek: :eek:

τσοντα :D