Sao Paulo Indy 300 Race [Archive] - Page 2

beachbum

15th March 2010, 01:09

My point was that she consistently, not just once, ran faster than Simona.
I have each lap but I won't bother posting unless you would like.
See, my issue is you say things that cannot be measure, yet when there is a measurement, say her back stretch speed on her fastest lap it can be seen she had no tow, was slower there than Simona consistently.

But with no data to support it you say she had a tow and was trimmed out.

As an objective engineer type I would think you would look at section speeds etc instead of making up concepts.

If your objective evaluation is demonstrably wrong, you can see why I question your subjective comments, and if you didn't feel compelled to make these statements about her which can be shown to be wrong, well maybe we would be talking about the front runners now that's all I gotta say about that.

rhNumbers do lie, when they are out of context. The timing and scoring reports and lap charts tell many stories. Danica was 6th quickest, that is true. She was also faster than Simona and Bia early in the race. But early in the race, there wasn't much passing and almost everyone ran the same speed to the leader of whatever pack they were in. The first corner mess resulting in some drivers short-cutting turn one and getting ahead of others who managed to get through on the track, which shuffled the running order.

The lap charts show the drivers turned their quickest laps right at the end of the race, when traffic was less, the track was rubbered up, and everyone was on reds. But if you watched the Versus coverage, the running order was interesting after the last yellow. Simona, Bia, and Danica were all together on track, although they were all on different laps. All ran their fastest within a lap of each other. Danica did get around Bia, but she was chasing Simona when she set her fastest lap and couldn't pass Simona.

Another interesting group of numbers are their second, third, and fourth fastest laps. (incidentally, they all did these times right before and right after the last yellow on almost the same laps)

Danica
1- 89.14
2 - 90.00
3 - 90.26
4 - 90.68
gap - quickest to 4th quickest 1.54 seconds

Simona
1 - 89.94
2 - 90.165
3 - 90.167
4 - 90.304
gap - quickest to 4th quickest .36 seconds

Bia
1 - 90.41
2 - 90.70
3 - 91.06
4 - 91.124
gap - quickest to 4th quickest .714 seconds

Considering Danica has run these cars for 5 years and is on a team that knows how she likes the car and Simona and Bia were in their first Indy car race, who had the more impressive run? IMHO, in context, that one quick lap for Danica is not as impressive as the runs of the other women. (I am leaving Milka out of this for obvious reasons).

Who was the most consistent?
Who improved the most from practice?
Who had only 32 laps of practice? (1/2 of Danica)
Who was the highest finishing woman?
Who lost 3 laps with mechanical problems?
Who spun on their own? (incidentally, right after she passed Simona in the rain - a little too optimistic?)

For once Danica might be feeling some pressure. She is no longer unique, nor is she probably the quickest woman (on average). You can play the numbers any way you want, but they still show there are other competitive women who are probably as good as or better than the highly publicized "Danica!"

gofastandwynn

15th March 2010, 01:25

Look, DF, please explain why she can never, ever put a foot wrong? Are we really starting yet another season with it's-never-Danica-it's-her-car/crew/strategist/other-drivers/ on and on and on? ABD. Anything But Danica.

I'm also curious why she always has a new strategist every single year.

And then can you explain why she can never, ever put a foot right?

No matter what she does, good or bad, every internet loser/dork/expert jumps on it. When she does do something right, well then everybody has to say is doesn't count because of blah blah blah.

What is you problem with her? Is she the best driver in the paddock? No, but I don't seem to recall her ever saying she was? Is it jealousy? The attention she gets?

I am still trying to figure out the blocking claim. It appeared she held her line on wets. Was she a jam car for 3 laps? Yea. Was she blocking? No.

TURN3

15th March 2010, 01:44

With respect to Danica and blocking, fact is she didn't get a ton of air time today so we shouldn't speculate on what we don't see obviously. There were several times she was in frame while cameras were following elsewhere. I felt she was blocking the group that was trying to pass her when she was a lap down after the red flag. We can argue and argue all we want whether she was or not but there is no argument that she was holding multiple drivers up that were racing for position a lap ahead of her.

Specifically the incidents other than that which I seen were when she body blocked Will going into 1, you can check out Hoops lap chart around 2 or 3 laps after then went back to green and see where Will dropped about 8 spots 1 lap while following her. Most people probably didn't notice and TV certainly didn't show a replay but when they followed the leaders through the T1 thru T2 section I noticed it in the background. On numerous other occassions, including Helio and Conway, she'd come to the left going into 1 forcing overtaking drivers to try and pass her around outside of 1. Blocking? maybe sometimes maybe sometimes just taking a defensive line. Call it what you want I didn't see anybody else doing it on a regular basis anyway. When you aren't competitive a defensive line is a smart move I guess.

anthonyvop

15th March 2010, 01:56

We can argue till we run out of bandwidth about how they could have avoided the problem or how to correct it but it won't change the facts.

Indy Car looks amateurish at their first event in a very important market that loves F-1.

Indy Car wasted valuable TV time that they can never recover. I would love to see the Nielson Trends to see how many people changed the Channel when they found out that qualifying was postponed.
What was suppose to be 2 hours of exciting qualifying at an exciting new venue turned into 1 hour of cars slipping and sliding at 1/2 speed and discussions of Asphalt, Cement and grinding. you can almost hear people around the country asking for their remotes.

And it just got worse.
The race start was delayed because they couldn't make up their mind if it was a wet or dry race.
A first corner fiasco due in part to the dust storm kicked up by the overnight "Track Improvements.
Then after a rain delay they drove around and around like a NASCAR race to dry the track.

The TV was amateurish as well.
It was almost 1/2 hour into the broadcast before they gave us the qualifying results.
They ripped off Inside F1 by having Helio draw the track layout blindfolded.
Jenkins was lost 1/2 the time.
And they let Jack Arute have a microphone.

Congrats to Power and RHR but the IRL really needs to step it up or else they will loose what few fans they have left.

NickFalzone

15th March 2010, 02:00

What I want to know is, where were these supposed "reverse gears" that were added to the trannies this season? Seems like a bunch of instances where they could have been used, including tags and TK but they just slowed down, and stalled instead.

beachgirl

15th March 2010, 02:16

And then can you explain why she can never, ever put a foot right?

No matter what she does, good or bad, every internet loser/dork/expert jumps on it. When she does do something right, well then everybody has to say is doesn't count because of blah blah blah.

What is you problem with her? Is she the best driver in the paddock? No, but I don't seem to recall her ever saying she was? Is it jealousy? The attention she gets?

I am still trying to figure out the blocking claim. It appeared she held her line on wets. Was she a jam car for 3 laps? Yea. Was she blocking? No.

Got it. Another ABD year.

NickFalzone

15th March 2010, 02:23

Other than the technical problems (which supposedly originated from the Brazilian tv equipment), and other than Jenkins habit of garbling words/misnaming drivers, I thought it was a very good broadcast. In retrospect, there wasn't a lot of the usual fawning over certain drivers, or wasting time with boring "featurettes" on certain drivers or whatever that ABC loves to do. Just a straight telecast of the race with insightful commentary. And I think Jack found a new calling in his weatherman segments. He should stick with that. Pit lane did miss Lindy and Rob.

downtowndeco

15th March 2010, 02:28

There's about 8 people that didn't enjoy the race or who can't find anything good at all to say about it.

Coincidentally it's the same 8 guys who thought the race would be cancelled, not approved by the FIA or that no one was going to show up. Go figure.

And it just got worse.
The race start was delayed because they couldn't make up their mind if it was a wet or dry race.
A first corner fiasco due in part to the dust storm kicked up by the overnight "Track Improvements.
Then after a rain delay they drove around and around like a NASCAR race to dry the track.

The TV was amateurish as well.
It was almost 1/2 hour into the broadcast before they gave us the qualifying results.
They ripped off Inside F1 by having Helio draw the track layout blindfolded.
Jenkins was lost 1/2 the time.
And they let Jack Arute have a microphone.

Congrats to Power and RHR but the IRL really needs to step it up or else they will loose what few fans they have left.

e2mtt

15th March 2010, 03:24

And it just got worse.
The race start was delayed because they couldn't make up their mind if it was a wet or dry race.
A first corner fiasco due in part to the dust storm kicked up by the overnight "Track Improvements.
Then after a rain delay they drove around and around like a NASCAR race to dry the track.

The TV was amateurish as well.
It was almost 1/2 hour into the broadcast before they gave us the qualifying results.
They ripped off Inside F1 by having Helio draw the track layout blindfolded.
Jenkins was lost 1/2 the time.
And they let Jack Arute have a microphone.

Congrats to Power and RHR but the IRL really needs to step it up or else they will loose what few fans they have left.

Bad TV presentation drives me nuts. When I watch football the announcer & commentators know all 108 players on the teams & knows more about the game then I ever will & there are 4 camera angles for every play. Indycar can & NEEDS to do better.

gids73

15th March 2010, 09:33

Great result for Will Power - do all Penske cars have the same paint job?

beachbum

15th March 2010, 10:33

GRW1983

15th March 2010, 12:13

The main reason why drivers wouldn't use reverse is because most who spun stalled the engine. However, take into account that that virtually all IndyCar drivers LEFT FOOT BRAKE (I think Franchitti might be the exception) nowadays so when they spin, especially on a street course, they will automatically use their left foot to bring the car to a halt to avoid hitting anything. They won't take their foot off the brake until the car is stopped.

However, the engine revs will have dropped too low at this point and drivers won't be able to catch the clutch in time so the engine will 95% of the time stall. The solution to this is to either adopt F1-style anti-stall devices or to remove the clutch from the footwell and put clutch paddles on the steering wheel as they do in F1. They already have the paddle-shift system for the gears (right=up, left=down), so all you would have to do is adopt a similar system for the clutch. So in theory, depending on the direction of your spin, you would grab either the left or right clutch paddle as soon as the car was spinning, stop the car with left foot on the brake and then once the car was stopped, engage reverse if you had to or just get the car pointing in the right direction and away you go. If a driver can control gears and clutch on the steering wheel, then he/she would have a far better chance of keeping the engine running if they did spin than they do with the current system. I think this would certainly reduce the amount of full-course yellows that you constantly get on road/street courses in IndyCar.

Lousada

15th March 2010, 12:25

I don't understand all the complaints here. It was a great race with lots of drama. Plenty of passes, and for the first positions! I enjoyed myself immensely, especially after yet another total bore parking lot F1 event.

I don't see much discussion about what Dan Wheldon did to Tagliani and Kanaan. What on earth was that about?? He just ran straight in the back of him without braking.
Also, I'm almost waiting for Marco to go all Carl Edwards at Moraes. Somehow they keep finding eachother in the first lap.

GRW1983

15th March 2010, 12:49

I'm all for keeping driver input at a high level, I just think with some minor changes here and there, it would increase the spectacle. There's nothing worse in IndyCar on a road/street course when they throw out a full-course caution just because someone spun, and unfortunately stalled. If things were made a little easier for the drivers in terms of placing the clutch on the steering wheel instead of the footwell, then these silly little incidents could easily be handled with a local yellow instead of going full-course yellow.

It was intersting to note though, that the Wheldon, Tagliani, Kanaan scrape was all handled with a local yellow even though Kanaan was stalled down the escape road. Maybe the IRL are getting better, I just think that there's always room for improvement.

px400r

15th March 2010, 15:26

I'm not a big fan of sequential gearboxes either. The odd missed shift used to provide many opportunities for passing.

Don't the missed shifts on non-sequential gearboxes increase the chances of blowing up the transmission? I was under the assumption that sequential transmissions are less expensive in that regard.

Chris R

15th March 2010, 15:46

I was one of the early complainers about the track and tv presentation - but I have to say the race was awesome and at least the weather was pretty much beyond their control.... Nice to see a real crowd and great racing!!

Chris R

15th March 2010, 16:11

The standouts of the race IMHO were:
Will Power - great job to win
Hunter-Reay - did a great job even if he didn't quite get it done
Tagliani - awesome job for his new team!!
de Silvestere (sp?) - She did a good job holding her own in tier two car - easily outshone all of the other female competitors....
Meira - 3rd in Foyt car on a street course - WOW....

I thought lots of people did a good job - the only ones that really had me scratching my head were Sato and Moraes - the track conditions were unacceptable - but they should have adjusted.....

elis

15th March 2010, 16:56

I thought lots of people did a good job - the only ones that really had me scratching my head were Sato and Moraes.....

I don't doubt there may've been some first race brainfade.. but can't help wondering (purely spec), if there was perhaps something up with their brakes/set up, given both drivers were from the KV stable, (though I appreciate EJ didn't have any issue, as far as we are aware, &/or possibly his set up differed a bit).

I think the Moraes/Andretti incident was a case of wrong place wrong time.. had Marco not been off line to avoid the mess ahead, then Moraes wouldn't have clobbered him when the rear end of his car initially spun out sendinging him into the crash. Either way MM was approaching T1 at a fair old tilt & both are 'fortunate' to get away lightly! :s

Can't say I was overly impressed with the way in which Mario hopped out of his car & seemingly didn't even acknowledge or try to see if Marco was ok, not used to seeing that in motorsport.. drivers usually do anything they can to aid a fellow competitior. I'm hoping perhaps Mario was a little dazed, rather than simply 'uncaring'.

As for the race, love the track layout, & thoroughly enjoyed it. Once the initial glitches were sorted the guys & girls put on a good show infront of a very enthusiastic & sizeable audience.. put some of the US crowds to shame ;)

SoCalPVguy

15th March 2010, 17:13

SoCalPVguy

15th March 2010, 17:21

What made Danica place so badly was the bad call by Tom Anderson (strategist) for not calling her in the pits earlier to change from the slicks to the rain tires. That is the reason she slid and lost the lap.

here's DP's actual quote "DANICA PATRICK (No. 7 Team GoDaddy.com): "I think the weekend started really tough for the No. 7 car and then we made a lot of progress at the end of the first practice day and that was really good. I'm proud of everyone for staying together and forging ahead instead of getting down. We missed the setup a bit in qualifying, but for the race I think my engineer (Eddie Jones) got the downforce right and my car was really good. We made it up to eighth and were making passes happen. Then when the rain started not everyone came in right away and we gambled on staying out. I mean, you've got to try and win the race. The front half of the track was wet and I locked up going into Turns 1 and 2, but worst off the car stalled. At the end of the day I think the GoDaddy.com car is going to be strong this year and the team overall is a lot stronger than we've been. It was a good first out for us."

Notice mr. Danicasyncophant that she says "we" gambled on staying out. I mean, you've got to try and win the race. ... "I" locked up going into Turns 1 and 2

Only you are blaming Mr. Tom Anderson as an excuse for your girl's poor performance and think you should stop that apologize to Mr. Anderson.

I notice also in the quote "We missed the setup a bit in qualifying, but for the race I think my engineer (Eddie Jones) got the downforce right..."

What I get out of that is that DP has absolutely no skill to provide input for car set up and that its all on the crew and its Eddie Jones fault not hers... rightly or wrongly.

Finally a last quote...It was a good first out for us." So that's what it has become, 15th is now a good start in danicaspeak, well I guess compared to 38th or whatever in Nascar, it was.

Shifter

15th March 2010, 19:14

Hey, the VS. crew realized that the field is made up of other drivers besides Danica and gave them all equal consideration based on what they were doing on track. Could forum members do the same?

There was the odd technical glitch, but the broadcast went pretty well considering how this race was sort of thrown toghether. Compared to the vast expanses of the desert track built by oil-rich oddballs that F1 went to collect money from this weekend, this gritty little track in Brasil put up an extremely entertaining race and I thouroughly enjoyed it. The frontstretch wound up being fine on all but one lap of the race, and the decision not to put a chicane on the backstretch made for some great action.

Will Power is a genuine talent and I thought it was great to see Hunter-Reay up there and nearly winning!

TURN3

15th March 2010, 19:19

I don't get that at all. All driver/crew chief teams miss set up sometimes. The driver provides feedback and the crew chief/engineer changes the set up to try and accomodate. She compliments Jones for getting it right. Three things can go wrong here. 1) The driver doesn't have a clue what the car is doing. 2) The crew chief doesn't know how to set the car to overcome issues. 3) And this is what happens most often - the driver and crew chief don't communicate well. This is the real cause of most set up issues.

Considering that she spent a lot of the race in the front half of the field, I don't have a problem with that statement.

You'll note she also took responsibility for the spin with the use of the word "I".

I have to agree that it is nice to see Danica talking as if she is part of a team. Her post race quote tells me she is starting to get the big picture just a little. Of course she's talking in the team concept when she finished 15th after she spun the car. It doesn't matter, talk like this needs to be all the time, not when it is convenient by circumstance. Good for her, maybe NASCAR has humbled her a bit in the amount of effort she realizes is required to help her. The teams all deserve this credit from all drivers, all the time.

Along that note...Dario had a comment about winning and losing as a team...to that effect anyway. That is what is expected of a professional in any line of work.

I wouldn't necessarily agree with her comment that it was a good first out given she was easily out performed by all 3 teammates throughout the weekend. She failed to get out of Q1 and if not for several drivers losing their 2 fast laps she would've started nearly last. I realize she made it up to 9th before pitstops but from her starting spot of 13th (?) and after Dixon, Wilson, Castroneves, Power, Briscoe, and Sato where in that incident. It is good to see that AA appears to have found some of their magic with TK and RHR, Marco wasn't too far off pace through sessions and of course he didn't get a lap in the race. AA was slightly more competitive at Barber test so they will have their days this year it would appear.

Mark in Oshawa

15th March 2010, 22:33

Well, A few observations after being away from my computer. I did WATCH the race live, so I wont comment on the feed online.

First off, the race DID come off, and was obviously a well attended affair. I am curious to know what the Brazilian papers had in them today about it, but the fans WERE there, and if the local promotors made money, that would be super.

The front straight should have been maybe a little more thought out, with that concrete BUT, and this is a BIG BUT, what was grippy enough to walk across obviously wouldn't take the power of an IndyCar on full throttle. I have no idea if they had support races, but THAT might have exposed the lack of grip. I didn't like the bumps either, BUT, that is street racing. The weather they couldn't control but I do wish they didn't lose power and have tech glitches from rain. Last I looked, other racing series and TV broadcasts come off in the rain, so it is something that needs addressing, but I know the local TV handled the pictures for the most part, and the conditions down there were not what people in T and S were likely used to.

So I give the organizers a B minus and the broadcast the same. Good, not great, lots to like really.

NOW...the racing? Well that first turn snafu on the start is typical first race stupidity on a very narrow race track. Some people, like Moraes need their head read, but for the most part, it was one of those racing deals IMO. When the visor goes down, the brain shuts off for a lot of these guys.

I wont wade too far into the top female racing driver category, other than to day I think this is the year Danicamania is out of gas. She has been proven to be competitive at times, and not at other times. The presence of Simona and Ana running very simliar times on lesser teams at a track that was new to all 3 says Danica's throne will be in question as the queen. Milka? We all know what she is.....

Danica didn't HOLD up people, she drove her line. That said, my only complaint with her driving is that she didn't have the sense to let people by. She was pretty much LAST in the standings, so that stretch where she was in the upper third of a pack of about 13 cars but the only one a lap down shows she still doesn't use her head at times.

OH yes, Turn3 and the other Danica haters? I know you want to dislike her, and I am not saying I don't agree with many of her faults, but when you start splitting hairs with Hoop when he is showing you the lap charts and the tech data, put the shovel down boys.....

One thing I have learned over the years is lap charts and time sheets don't care about who is the biggest jerk, they just show times. I know, for 23 years I made them..If Hoop says Danica was the fastest member of the Distaff on Sunday, I will not question it. He uses numbers.....

I enjoyed the race, realize the weather down there really messed with things, and when get to St. Pete's we get a better picture of the series. Brazil was an experiment that still needs some refinement for many teams.

I think I am going to enjoy the road/street races tho. There is a greater element of doubt on who is going to run and win, and there is some real wild cards. Congrats to Will Power, but I still think before the year is out, Scott Dixon will be the overall champion. Great run by RHR tho...once Tag's dropped out I was rooting for him....

TURN3

15th March 2010, 22:49

OH yes, Turn3 and the other Danica haters? I know you want to dislike her, and I am not saying I don't agree with many of her faults, but when you start splitting hairs with Hoop when he is showing you the lap charts and the tech data, put the shovel down boys.....

It wasn't me doing the splitting of hairs bud. If I were, I would've pointed out no matter how many lap charts and tech data that was presented would've shown she finished 15th 1 lap behind. There were 14 other drivers that completed the entire race distance and in less time, including a rookie female driver. Those are really the only stats that count in the end, right? Beachbum more clearly illustrated any point I might have been trying to make.

Summing up my feelings for the entire event...glad to see them back on track, getting all the bugs worked out on every level (i.e. event, tv, teams, drivers, etc.), very competitive, and most impressively some drivers/teams that aren't usually at the front getting in the mix. St. Pete should be a good run...looking forward to it.

harvick#1

15th March 2010, 23:01

NOW...the racing? Well that first turn snafu on the start is typical first race stupidity on a very narrow race track. Some people, like Moraes need their head read, but for the most part, it was one of those racing deals IMO. When the visor goes down, the brain shuts off for a lot of these guys.

after seeing the review of the track, who couldn't see a big crash on the opening turn, it was bad track planning

although I'm extremely glad that they did not put a chicane on the big straight, that would've killed all the racing in itself

DavePI2

15th March 2010, 23:41

harvick#1

15th March 2010, 23:56

I wonder if she was slamming anyone?

I'm thinking several drivers are wishing that certain person would go away already, that certain person is a cancer to the sport :p :

garyshell

15th March 2010, 23:58

I'm thinking several drivers are wishing that certain person would go away already, that certain person is a cancer to the sport :p :

I doubt it. More likely just expressing the Sarah Fisher philosophy of team ownership.

Gary

SUBARUTEAM

16th March 2010, 00:07

my comment:

1. at the start, the lack of visibility was due to the dust. As for the crash - s**t happens. Sato is used to cars that stop far better then indy cars, he caused it but will learn form his mistake. The KV car will have some expensive damage to repair as i'd say that all the electronics are written off.

2. the track - i LOVE IT. great passing opportunities - much better product then F1.

3. will power and penske in general - super fast

4. TCG - should have finished 1-2 bet stayed out too long

5. off season - WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY TO LONG!!!

6. prospects for the 2010 year - going to be the best ever i beleive

Question - will Rahal be in a 3rd TCG car or one of Sarah's cars for indy and beyond????

i can't wait till the next race!!!!

Mark in Oshawa

16th March 2010, 02:20

It wasn't me doing the splitting of hairs bud. If I were, I would've pointed out no matter how many lap charts and tech data that was presented would've shown she finished 15th 1 lap behind. There were 14 other drivers that completed the entire race distance and in less time, including a rookie female driver. Those are really the only stats that count in the end, right? Beachbum more clearly illustrated any point I might have been trying to make..

OH I don't disagree her finish was where it was, but to say she was SLOW doesn't tell the whole story really. Listen, results are everything, and I find it very interesting Ana and Simona both were pretty much on pace from the start.

Summing up my feelings for the entire event...glad to see them back on track, getting all the bugs worked out on every level (i.e. event, tv, teams, drivers, etc.), very competitive, and most impressively some drivers/teams that aren't usually at the front getting in the mix. St. Pete should be a good run...looking forward to it.

Oh there are bugs to be worked out, but this being Brazil and all, there is a little bit of that Latin craziness in there I am sure....

Mark in Oshawa

16th March 2010, 02:22

I saw an interview sith sarah fisher , I don't remember if on espn or local tv in columbus ohio but she made this interesting statement. When talking about stepping aside for rahal she stated "I am more interested in my teams success then my own ego." I wonder if she was slamming anyone?

david

Sarah wouldn't say ***** if she had a mouthful.....which is why we cant help but respect her.

It doesn't sound like she was taking a shot, and I hope she wasn't. Danica is still the most successful woman in Indycar from a driver's perspective. Love her or hate her, that is the reality of it.

Mark in Oshawa

16th March 2010, 02:24

after seeing the review of the track, who couldn't see a big crash on the opening turn, it was bad track planning

although I'm extremely glad that they did not put a chicane on the big straight, that would've killed all the racing in itself

I think Harv if you take away where they put the start, and maybe had them start on the back stretch, you still might issues. I don't consider that start location a lot more radically different than the first turn at Melbourne's F1 track. The walls are tighter but the style of corner and fact this is a rollling start still end up causing the same issues. Either these guys are pro's, or they are not.

As for not putting the chicane there, the drivers told Cotman to leave it out....

NickFalzone

16th March 2010, 03:57

I'm just glad that after all the possibilities of failure, they were ultimately able to pull off an event that played well on tv, and probably played well to the fans in attendance. Did things go perfectly? Far from it. But they did pull it off in spite of a lot of expectation that it would either not happen or be a disaster. So I do give credit to the IRL team for making the race a successful event, and for apparently giving the league and teams a very nice monetary reward to start off the year.

mileman

16th March 2010, 04:33

It wasn't me doing the splitting of hairs bud. If I were, I would've pointed out no matter how many lap charts and tech data that was presented would've shown she finished 15th 1 lap behind. There were 14 other drivers that completed the entire race distance and in less time, including a rookie female driver. Those are really the only stats that count in the end, right? Beachbum more clearly illustrated any point I might have been trying to make.

If where you finish is all that counts (and not style points for being a "racer") - then the fact that DP actually had a better average finish vs. PT in four head-to-head road races last year must mean something.

Oh - I know - she's a little wisp of a thing and PT is - plump. She has the tricked up car with power steering and PT drives whatever he can get. When she finished 3rd at Indy, did you make a strong point that 30 cars finished (or didn't finish) the race in more time than her?

That's what's great about this forum. All Danica - all the time. (A most interesting stat would be what percentage of discussion has been about DP, and what percentage about the race in general.) I think that Hoop's stats were very revealing, and actually surprised me. I enjoy his analytical perspective - which sometimes shows that the final results don't tell the whole story about the race. As JPM would say: "It is what it is."

wedge

16th March 2010, 12:29

Watched the race last night.

That was an awesome race!

Congrats to Will Power.

anthonyvop

16th March 2010, 14:43

There's about 8 people that didn't enjoy the race or who can't find anything good at all to say about it.

Coincidentally it's the same 8 guys who thought the race would be cancelled, not approved by the FIA or that no one was going to show up. Go figure.

I never said the race would be canceled, not approved by the FIA or that nobody would show up.

So instead of a feeble attempt to attack the messenger how about addressing the issues I brought up?

maxmach

16th March 2010, 17:12

downtowndeco

16th March 2010, 17:49

I'm sorry. I must confused you with one of the other "concerned" fans.

As for your issues, I'd call them nitpicking. But maybe that's just me.

I never said the race would be canceled, not approved by the FIA or that nobody would show up.

So instead of a feeble attempt to attack the messenger how about addressing the issues I brought up?

Mark in Oshawa

16th March 2010, 18:52

Ok, I watched the F1 race, and when I found out Versus was back on Direct I watched that. F1 had the big storys, past champions, new teams, very professional track and telecast....and Indy didn't.
I fell asleep during the F1 race, and was thoroughly entertained during the Indycar race. Sums it up for me.

f1 broadcasts are good because the FIA does all its own TV and provides pictures for a world feed. They spend more on TV than anyone spends on a sport. They better have a great visual show BUT the IRL broadcast was just a victim of the hosts wanting their show, and the American network wanting its shots, tossed in with bad weather and chaotic situations. Hell of a lot of fun tho...lol..you have that right.

Chamoo

16th March 2010, 18:53

Mark in Oshawa

16th March 2010, 19:09

Now we just need a way to get people to sit there and watch that racing. We also need St. Pete to be unpredictable and exciting, more so then it usually is.

What we need at St. Pete's is a little chaos and a lot of change during the race....

garyshell

16th March 2010, 19:17

What we need at St. Pete's is a little chaos and a lot of change during the race....

Hell that's easy, just invert the field after qualifying... just kidding.

Gary

ykiki

16th March 2010, 20:42

I think part of what made Sao Paolo fun was that there was actually some drama at the front of the pack. The hairpin leading to the front straight turned out to be a great passing spot. So many times we see people compain that street races are parades and that there isn't anything going on, while others weigh in with "tv didn't show it, but there was lots of passing back in the pack".

I think now that they've got one race under their belt, next year's show should be even better (and no giant dust cloud heading into the first corner...)

Mark in Oshawa

16th March 2010, 20:46

Hell that's easy, just invert the field after qualifying... just kidding.

Gary

I like it!! of course...you know if you TELL the drivers and teams there will be an inversion, you will see some of the worst running Penske and Ganassi cars around....

TURN3

16th March 2010, 21:10

I like it!! of course...you know if you TELL the drivers and teams there will be an inversion, you will see some of the worst running Penske and Ganassi cars around....

LOL, no kidding! Of course I'd love to see a front frow with Milka and a rotation between Danica and Mario Romance-a-mini, or whatever his name is.

Mark in Oshawa

16th March 2010, 21:14

You think last race start was a fiasco? Put the slow people up there..and watch the fun!!!

bblocker68

16th March 2010, 21:23

You think last race start was a fiasco? Put the slow people up there..and watch the fun!!!

Only if IndyCar builds a ramp for the fast guys to jump over the slow guys :)

Mark in Oshawa

16th March 2010, 21:44

Only if IndyCar builds a ramp for the fast guys to jump over the slow guys :)

You keep that up son....we have big plans for you!!!

vintage

16th March 2010, 21:53

Only if IndyCar builds a ramp for the fast guys to jump over the slow guys :)

When did Humpy Wheeler join AR1?

harvick#1

16th March 2010, 22:04

Only if IndyCar builds a ramp for the fast guys to jump over the slow guys :)

oh hell, we can steal Bernies idea and actually make the Short Cuts be used :D

I also think they should have a sprinkler system hooked up at all road/street circuits :laugh:

the IRL can have a wet race when ever they want even on a beautiful sunny day :D

ykiki

16th March 2010, 22:46

LOL, no kidding! Of course I'd love to see a front frow with Milka and a rotation between Danica and Mario Romance-a-mini, or whatever his name is.

Well, at least Romancini has a couple of IndyLights wins, while Milka has a couple of... eh, I'm not going there. :s

NickFalzone

16th March 2010, 22:55

gofastandwynn

17th March 2010, 00:39

Who knows what this means in real ratings terms, since they don't even say a number. But I believe last year's opener in St. Pete got something like a .3-.4, so this is a pretty good # if it's 76% up from that, also considering Direct TV viewers could not be counted in the tally. From IndyCar.com:

"IZOD IndyCar Series season opener March 14 on VERSUS nets 76 percent increase in viewership over the '09 opener -- the network's third-most watched race."

From the IRL:

The race peaked at a 0.6 household rating between 2:15 -2:30 p.m. (EDT) and averaged 411,000 viewers, up 30 percent from the 2009 season average (315,000) and up 76 percent from the 2009 season-opening race (233,000)."

anthonyvop

17th March 2010, 00:43

From the IRL:

The race peaked at a 0.6 household rating between 2:15 -2:30 p.m. (EDT) and averaged 411,000 viewers, up 30 percent from the 2009 season average (315,000) and up 76 percent from the 2009 season-opening race (233,000)."

Hmmmmmmmmm 2:15 to 2:30! And after? How many people switched channels during the ridiculously long red-flag session?

anthonyvop

17th March 2010, 00:45

I'm sorry. I must confused you with one of the other "concerned" fans.

As for your issues, I'd call them nitpicking. But maybe that's just me.

It is just you.
The race was OK. The broadcast was horrendous.

Lousada

17th March 2010, 10:52

Hmmmmmmmmm 2:15 to 2:30! And after? How many people switched channels during the ridiculously long red-flag session?

An average of 411.000 viewers would make an average rating of .36 if I'm correct? Although technically 'viewers' is not the same as 'households'.
Directv has around 18 million subscribers and Versus around 77 million households if Directv is included. So, if Directv carried Versus on Sunday, the rating should have been around .44. Please correct my math here if I made a mistake.
It is still lower than the season best last year. But it's an increase nevertheless and that's all anybody can hope for.

beachbum

17th March 2010, 11:04

Hmmmmmmmmm 2:15 to 2:30! And after? How many people switched channels during the ridiculously long red-flag session?Sheesh.... Not many people can find a cloud in a silver lining.

px400r

17th March 2010, 11:42

From the IRL:

The race peaked at a 0.6 household rating between 2:15 -2:30 p.m. (EDT) and averaged 411,000 viewers, up 30 percent from the 2009 season average (315,000) and up 76 percent from the 2009 season-opening race (233,000)."

The interesting thing is that ratings can be tracked throughout the broadcast (I assume in 15 minute segments). I wonder what was going on during the telecast at that time.

UltimateDanGTR

17th March 2010, 17:08

having watched the highlights on sky sports that race seemed like the best open wheel race I've seen in a good couple of years. and the layout was great, superb overtaking places and action throuhgout the field.

anthonyvop

17th March 2010, 21:44

Sheesh.... Not many people can find a cloud in a silver lining.

a .36 rating is a silver lining?

Remember that there was no other significant sporting event on TV that day. No NASCAR, No MLB, No NFL. No major Golf tournament, Indy Car had a freebie and still pulled a .36

NickFalzone

17th March 2010, 21:53

Curt Cavin says the broadcast got a .6 rating. Which for a broadcast that started at 11:30am ET seemed pretty good to me.

anthonyvop

17th March 2010, 22:01

Curt Cavin says the broadcast got a .6 rating. Which for a broadcast that started at 11:30am ET seemed pretty good to me.

Where did he get that number?

The IRL said they drew 411,000 viewers which which rounds out to a .36

Mark in Oshawa

17th March 2010, 22:48

a .36 rating is a silver lining?

Remember that there was no other significant sporting event on TV that day. No NASCAR, No MLB, No NFL. No major Golf tournament, Indy Car had a freebie and still pulled a .36

And they are on VS, which wasn't carried on Comcast until last week...and many people may not be aware of it. The litmus test is when they hit ABC/ESPN....

The ratings suck...in other news, dog bites man...this is the same story we have had for 3 years.

DBell

17th March 2010, 23:31

And they are on VS, which wasn't carried on Comcast until last week...and many people may not be aware of it. The litmus test is when they hit ABC/ESPN....

The ratings suck...in other news, dog bites man...this is the same story we have had for 3 years.

I think you mean Direct TV Mark. And I agree that could make a difference now that it is settled. But I also remember we were on Direct TV for roughly 2/3 of the season last year and the numbers weren't much, if any, better.

I think the ratings have sucked for longer than 3 years. I remember in CC when we were complaining of .6,.7,.8 ratings and how they weren't enough to attract sponsors then. My problem when the Versus ratings were coming out last year was the thought that we have to grow 2-4 times from the Versus ratings just to get back to the lousy ratings we had before.

As far as this years ratings, who knows? Now that the Nielson ratings are apparently a national security concern (sarcasm) and are to be kept top secret, I guess we won't know for sure what they are.

DBell

17th March 2010, 23:44

I have to say I enjoyed the Sao Paulo race about as much as any I've seen since the merger. Despite the problems and weather, the action on the track was wonderful. It was a pleasant surprise for someone that hasn't had a whole lot of interest in Indycar lately. It seems to be a good formula for the design of street courses, keep it simple and have at least 2 real long straightaways for passing. I hope the rest of the races will continue to be this entertaining.

On a side note, I see Sato has continued where he left off in F1. Fairly fast right up to when he crashes. With him it's not if, but when he crashes. Remember him coming out of the tunnel in Monaco a few years back? :dozey:

anthonyvop

18th March 2010, 03:18

Alfa Fan

18th March 2010, 03:38

Sponsors don't care. A .36 is a .36.

http://circleh.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/picard-facepalm1.jpg

Mark in Oshawa

18th March 2010, 04:43

Sponsors don't care. A .36 is a .36.

I know, but you seem to take glee in this ? Or are you like Ken, just stating the facts? Like I said, Dog bites man....

The point is, whatever anyone thinks of the ratings, they wont fix over night. Good shows and maybe a personality that trancends the sport would help. Danica was supposed to be that person, but alas, she was here when the TV slide began....so I humbly suggest a new plan is required.

Lousada

18th March 2010, 22:37

I know, but you seem to take glee in this ? Or are you like Ken, just stating the facts? Like I said, Dog bites man....

The point is, whatever anyone thinks of the ratings, they wont fix over night. Good shows and maybe a personality that trancends the sport would help. Danica was supposed to be that person, but alas, she was here when the TV slide began....so I humbly suggest a new plan is required.

Actually the trend so far this season is a ratings upswing ;) Next race on ABC so I predict the St.Pete ratings improve 400% over last year ;)

anthonyvop

19th March 2010, 00:07

I know, but you seem to take glee in this ? Or are you like Ken, just stating the facts? Like I said, Dog bites man....

No, I don't take glee in it.

The problem is that Indy Car has to totally reinvent itself if it is to survive.
Do you see anything on the horizon that make you think that the situation will improve?
Before we see Sponsors returning to the series in significant numbers we will need to see ratings triple........at least. Most companies won't even bother unless they are at around a 2.0.

-Helix-

21st March 2010, 23:30

Do you see anything on the horizon that make you think that the situation will improve?

1 - Indy 500
2 - New Cars
3 - Indy 500 with New Cars

px400r

22nd March 2010, 00:28

1 - Indy 500
2 - New Cars
3 - Indy 500 with New Cars

Penske and Ganassi continuing their domination with new cars is not going to improve the product.

If two or three teams step up and win on a regular basis- along with Penske and Ganassi- then it will definitely improve the product, with or without new cars.

Mark in Oshawa

22nd March 2010, 01:18

No, I don't take glee in it.

The problem is that Indy Car has to totally reinvent itself if it is to survive.
Do you see anything on the horizon that make you think that the situation will improve?
Before we see Sponsors returning to the series in significant numbers we will need to see ratings triple........at least. Most companies won't even bother unless they are at around a 2.0.

Ok..now we are having the conversation. I agree something has to change radically, but at the same time, taking the ratings and throwing them out there for a topic of "how bad they are" by itself is not really newsworthy. You, like I do know you want this series to be something right now it isn't on a regular basis, and that is exciting. Exciting in depth of field, quality of racing and quality of field in terms of car choices. With that, I think comes public interest.

anthonyvop

22nd March 2010, 02:04

1 - Indy 500
2 - New Cars
3 - Indy 500 with New Cars

They already have the Indy 500.
The New car will not be here until 2012 at the earliest.

So ask yourself a few questions:

Will the ICS last until then?
Will a new car make a difference?

downtowndeco

22nd March 2010, 04:47

Will the ICS last until then?

"The IRL will never turn a wheel."

"CART will bury the IRL"

"CCWS will bury the IRL."

"No one will ever come to see the IRL at Long Beach/St. Pete/Edmonton."

"This is the year the Indy 500 has less than 33 starters (heard just about every year for the past ten but it has never happened)."

"The IRL will never get a title sponsor with ratings like these."

Stop holding your breath waiting. You're turning blue already.

Mark in Oshawa

22nd March 2010, 05:46

"The IRL will never turn a wheel."

"CART will bury the IRL"

"CCWS will bury the IRL."

"No one will ever come to see the IRL at Long Beach/St. Pete/Edmonton."

"This is the year the Indy 500 has less than 33 starters (heard just about every year for the past ten but it has never happened)."

"The IRL will never get a title sponsor with ratings like these."

Stop holding your breath waiting. You're turning blue already.

You must admit tho Deco, that one on the number of starters has been a near run thing. Once upon a time, there was 60 cars on the entry, and 40 plus real teams trying to make the 33 and it was in my lifetime..pre Tony George...

That said, I don't underestimate the ability of OW to bounce back or to shoot itself in the foot on alternate weeks.

F1boat

22nd March 2010, 07:31

"The IRL will never turn a wheel."

"CART will bury the IRL"

"CCWS will bury the IRL."

"No one will ever come to see the IRL at Long Beach/St. Pete/Edmonton."

"This is the year the Indy 500 has less than 33 starters (heard just about every year for the past ten but it has never happened)."

"The IRL will never get a title sponsor with ratings like these."

Stop holding your breath waiting. You're turning blue already.

Yes. I watched the 1st round however, and maybe I have become too pretentious, but I'd like to see a newer, more modern and more handsome Indy Car, Something a la CART 1999 and please with better engine sound. :(
I respect the sport a lot and wish it well, but I think that it needs more. The Indy Cars for me \and maybe I am wrong\ is less attractive not only than F1, but then GP2 as well. :)