Manufacturer Championship

[Sulland]

Citroen 1-2-3 = 27 points
Ford 4-5-6 = 31 points

Another thing that really make sense, and that WRC could learn something from IRC !

[JFL]

1-2-3 was Citröen Total- PSWRT- Citrôen junior
4-5-6 was BpFord-BPFord-Stobart

Citröen got 31p in Mexico and Ford 27p.

http://www.wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=410&season=2010

[bluuford]

Citroen 1-2-3 = 27 points
Ford 4-5-6 = 31 points

Another thing that really make sense, and that WRC could learn something from IRC !

IRC counts only first two

[bowler]

IRC counts only first two

so does WRC

[Gard]

so does WRC

Still a big difference.

[RS]

Sulland is absolutely correct. The current situation is silly and only exists because the FIA had to invent "M2" teams to make the WRC seem in a stronger state of health that it really is.

What makes it more ridiculous is that the "M2" teams don't really have their own identity at all and are just rebranded offshoots of the main teams anyway.

It also meant that Ogier for example probably wouldn't have been allowed to win in Mexico even if he had been able to.

[Sulland]

1-2-3 was Citröen Total- PSWRT- Citrôen junior
4-5-6 was BpFord-BPFord-Stobart

Citröen got 31p in Mexico and Ford 27p.

http://www.wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=410&season=2010

You are of course correct !
Sorry, it was late.....

But the point itself is still the same. Should not matter who drives the car, if they are registered or not.

[curry]

I have always said that Manufacturer points should be given on overall place not some half cocked list that excludes non manufacturer cars. So in Mexico I would not have given any points to Sordo or Wilson as they didn't finish in the top 10.

[6789]

I have always said that Manufacturer points should be given on overall place not some half cocked list that excludes non manufacturer cars. So in Mexico I would not have given any points to Sordo or Wilson as they didn't finish in the top 10.

I have to agree, it should just be the points they score in the srivers championship. So Ogier would have scored points for his 3rd plance not a 2nd like it is now

[curry]

So Ogier would have scored points for his 3rd plance not a 2nd like it is now

Exactly.

[mjh]

I have always said that Manufacturer points should be given on overall place not some half cocked list that excludes non manufacturer cars. So in Mexico I would not have given any points to Sordo or Wilson as they didn't finish in the top 10.

Absolutely agree.
Lets face it the whole SupeRally thing is a bit bull**** anyway. That someone can make a huge stuff up and still rally the next day and score reasonable points - even when down in 15th or something in the wider field - does not seem a fair way to allocate points. Poland last year proved that, Seb did not deserve the points he got through the combination of SupeRally and telling all the other Citroen crews to back off.
Then you have the unfairness that someone can have a brilliant rally and fail mechanically on the last stage (I recall Petter in Subaru a couple of years back) and walk away with nothing.

If they insist on people rejoining after retiring on the Friday or Saturday then we should have a system nearer to that in the ARC, where each day / leg is awarded points. However with reference to the Australian system it quickly becomes that complicated that it's hard to keep track of what points people are scoring!

[6789]

Absolutely agree.
Lets face it the whole SupeRally thing is a bit bull**** anyway. That someone can make a huge stuff up and still rally the next day and score reasonable points - even when down in 15th or something in the wider field - does not seem a fair way to allocate points. Poland last year proved that, Seb did not deserve the points he got through the combination of SupeRally and telling all the other Citroen crews to back off.
Then you have the unfairness that someone can have a brilliant rally and fail mechanically on the last stage (I recall Petter in Subaru a couple of years back) and walk away with nothing.

If they insist on people rejoining after retiring on the Friday or Saturday then we should have a system nearer to that in the ARC, where each day / leg is awarded points. However with reference to the Australian system it quickly becomes that complicated that it's hard to keep track of what points people are scoring!

Loeb's result in Poland last year really was a joke, the good thing about SuperRally is that as a spectator you will still be ale to see the car the next day. Which is good with such small number of WRC cars.

[tmx]

My idea for SupeRally is if you are retired, you'll be allow to run again the next day. However, you will no longer be allowed to score points. Not sure how the retired drivers will be specifically be displayed in the time sheet, maybe just separately.

[curry]

My idea for SupeRally is if you are retired, you'll be allow to run again the next day. However, you will no longer be allowed to score points.

Problem with that method is if a big name driver has a off you won't see them competing on Saturday or Sunday which is what the Promoter and organisers want.

On one hand I agree that we want to see the big name drivers driving all weekend even if under super rally, but on the other hand I don't want to see a situation like we had in Poland last year. I for one don't have an answer.

Anyway enough thread drift.

[AndyRAC]

Problem with that method is if a big name driver has a off you won't see them competing on Saturday or Sunday which is what the Promoter and organisers want.

On one hand I agree that we want to see the big name drivers driving all weekend even if under super rally, but on the other hand I don't want to see a situation like we had in Poland last year. I for one don't have an answer.

Anyway enough thread drift.

We all want to see the top drivers driving all weekend - but if they retire Tough!! Remember the old adage " To finish first, first you have to finish".
Rallying is meant to be a test of speed AND endurance.......

I'm a huge Loeb fan, but it could be argued that 2 of his Championships are due to SupeRally. (Monte 2006, Poland 2009).

SupeRally was the FiA's answer to Manufacturers leaving at the end of 2005 - I hope when new Manufacturers join (if they do) SupeRally will be binned and also the M2 Teams.

[curry]

We all want to see the top drivers driving all weekend - but if they retire Tough!!

Try explaining that to event organisers who are trying to get top sponsorship dollar for their rally. Sorry but it just won't fly in the modern day 'commercial' world.

Having said that, from a personal point of view, I totally agree with you.

[AndyRAC]

Try explaining that to event organisers who are trying to get top sponsorship dollar for their rally. Sorry but it just won't fly in the modern day 'commercial' world.

Having said that, from a personal point of view, I totally agree with you.

Yes, I know - but they're basically changing the essence of the sport. It's just wrong!!
The commercial people have already ruined the sport - trying to turn it into F1 on Gravel.

[Daniel]

If they want their brand to get exposure then send 3 or 4 car teams out and tell the drivers not to crash :)

[grugsticles]

I tent to agree with the argument that SuperRally is unfair on those competitors unfortunate enough to retire on the last day after what might have been a dream run on the first couple of days. To walk away with nothing after setting competitive stage times isnt right in wnay way, shape or form.

If the idea of Super Rally is to remain, which I hate to admit that it needs to purely for spectator satisfaction, then a better method of scoring point needs to be derived.
ATM im leaning towards a system where points are awarded at the end of each day, as other have suggested.

Or maybe, if a driver were to retire on the last day, let them be awarded with a percentage of point that they would otherwise would have earnt if they were to finish the rally in a said placing.
Ie. If a driver is running second and on course for 20 points only to crash on the last stage and retire, then if the points ratio was 50%, award the driver 10 points at the end of the rally.

Just my 2cents.

[pettersolberg29]

I agree that the 'retire on Sunday = no points' rule is unfair in relation to crashing earlier. However, also in my opinion, the idea of Superrally at all is an odd one in a sport where consistency is meant to be rewarded. For spectator purposes, to get drivers to rally every day rather than quit after a crash, either points need to be given per day, or preferably, forcing them to drive the stages.

[TMorel]

If a driver crashes out, no points - regardless of superrally. Driver mistake, driver suffers.

If the car can be repaired and sent back out then fair play to the team, so let them score superrally manufacturer points.

That way the team will still want their guys out on track again so the fans get to see as many cars as possible, but you only reward a driver for reaching the finish.

[and if a superrallying crew finish 3rd then only award points for 1st 2nd and 4th, no one gets the points for 3rd]

There we go, perfect solution

[Sulland]

Mini/ BMW has clearly stated that they are out.
Ford has clearly stated that they are out.

What are the current rules to be able to register as a manufacturer in 2013?