2010 Bahrain Formula 1 GP Thread [Archive] - Page 2

gloomyDAY

13th March 2010, 15:47

Woo hoo! Vettel gets pole, Massa beats Alonso, and Lewis takes a dump on Button.

I am very disappointed with the pole lap of Vettel, who I continue to dislike immensely.

I am dissapointed by vettels pole as well, i hope he collides with alonso tomorrow and both are out.Here come the haters.

I'm not sure why you would want someone to crash Garry.
Think you're watching the wrong sport.

It didn't take long before Button started blaming the car:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/82073

I guess we won't hear much from SaintD for a while. :D :p

It was a good lap yes, but the gap came from webbos mistake in S2. But Vettel had a little bit of advantage over Webbo anyway.What advantage?

Cant wait to hear the excuses from button fans (read: st.devote) and alonso fans.Me too!

Brown, Jon Brow

13th March 2010, 16:28

ioan

13th March 2010, 17:03

The track always has looked good IMO, as far as condition is concerned. With the amount of money that is spent at Sakhir, the track appears to be brand new every year. Its also nice to learn that a "hosepipe ban" is not enforced in that part of the world judging by the greenery edition at Sakhir. :)

There are irrigation methods that measure the optimum amount of water neccessary - drip irrigation and a system that is placed under the desert sand enabling a fertile top.

Through neccessity Israeli companies developed these systems and I am sure that places like Bahrain use this sort of technology.

You call this irrigation?!

http://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/gallery/pictures/2010/f1/gp-bahrain-10mar/030wri.jpg?PHPSESSID=03f3a89493f0a458e49443eb15577 e65

:rotflmao:

ioan

13th March 2010, 17:05

What advantage?

Better race driver genes, most probably! ;)

Sonic

13th March 2010, 17:19

Why such a spread in times? Vetter and Massa destroyed everyone.

Are we seeing cars set up for a heavy fuel load so they compromised low fuel pace?

I love how we have proper independants now. Some real underdogs to support :up:

That could be the case. Its gonna take a few races before the ideal stratagybecomes clear. Do you set up 100% for the race and take the pain in qually, or visa versa, or a combination setting? This is why I'm not fond of parc ferme - we are seeing imperfect compromises.

EuroTroll

13th March 2010, 17:23

That could be the case. Its gonna take a few races before the ideal stratagybecomes clear. Do you set up 100% for the race and take the pain in qually, or visa versa, or a combination setting? This is why I'm not fond of parc ferme - we are seeing imperfect compromises.

Yeah, I guess it will take a few more years for people to realize that sporting regulations were pretty much perfect in 1993.. Except 3-stage qualifying. I think that's a good idea.

ioan

13th March 2010, 17:28

This is why I'm not fond of parc ferme - we are seeing imperfect compromises.

I've never seen a perfect compromise.

cali

13th March 2010, 17:39

ioan, I survived Michael, who, back at the time, I didn't like. Things change. But I will be happy if Vettel wins as many poles as he wishes, if the races and the titles go for my guys :)

Compared to Michal, Sebastian is totally a very different person - kinda "down to earth"-type, very pleasant IMHO.
I'll share your opinion about Michael though ....

Rodster

13th March 2010, 17:51

Compared to Michal, Sebastian is totally a very different person - kinda "down to earth"-type, very pleasant IMHO.
I'll share your opinion about Michael though ....

Well to Michael's defense you would have to sort of be a prick when the whole F1 world has put a dart board on your back. I don't blame him for being guarded while at Ferrari and stand off-ish. That's my take on Michael and i've been a big fan of his when I started watching F1 back in 1992.

With regard to Sebb, I totally agree he's a very nice young man who has immense talent. He showed class by offering kind words to second place Felipe at the post qualifying conference. I don't understand why someone would wish bad things on him when he's only 22 years old and has done nothing to earn any hatred other than his talent.

EuroTroll

13th March 2010, 17:54

Well to Michael's defense you would have to sort of be a prick when the whole F1 world has put a dart board on your back.

I think he was a prick way before that happened. ;)

But I've certainly forgiven all. It's his 2nd career and I'm very happy he chose to start it.

Sonic

13th March 2010, 18:18

I've never seen a perfect compromise.

LOL! :D

You've missed your calling Ioan - you should be a song writter with such deep lines like that! :)

ioan

13th March 2010, 18:22

LOL! :D

You've missed your calling Ioan - you should be a song writter with such deep lines like that! :)

It's never to late, still I'm fairly convinced that I am much better at other things.

F1boat

13th March 2010, 18:33

Here come the haters.

You know, you'll never see me speaking bad things about Vettel, I'll never say that he is a bad driver, I'll never bash him and although I do think that the Newey designed car makes him to look a bit better than he is, I admit that he is a very good driver. I just say that I don't like the guy. Compare this to what some Vettel fans say about Button or what fans say about Michael or Lewis or Fernando. For me it is obvious that every strong drivers has fans and people who dislike him. But I always try to be polite about the drivers who I do not like. And I don't pretend that it's objective.
And about Garry, some people say that I am too emotional, maybe, but wow, you are overreacting. He didn't say "let teh b@st@rd die", he said that a retirement of the drivers who he doesn't like will be cool for him. I don't see any problem with that. Last year some people here wished Jenson to retire, because they didn't want him as champion. Well, maybe I and Garry do not want Vettel for champion and we have the right for wishes, as they don't matter at all.

cali

13th March 2010, 18:42

You know, you'll never see me speaking bad things about Vettel, I'll never say that he is a bad driver, I'll never bash him and although I do think that the Newey designed car makes him to look a bit better than he is, I admit that he is a very good driver. I just say that I don't like the guy. Compare this to what some Vettel fans say about Button or what fans say about Michael or Lewis or Fernando. For me it is obvious that every strong drivers has fans and people who dislike him. But I always try to be polite about the drivers who I do not like. And I don't pretend that it's objective.
And about Garry, some people say that I am too emotional, maybe, but wow, you are overreacting. He didn't say "let teh b@st@rd die", he said that a retirement of the drivers who he doesn't like will be cool for him. I don't see any problem with that. Last year some people here wished Jenson to retire, because they didn't want him as champion. Well, maybe I and Garry do not want Vettel for champion and we have the right for wishes, as they don't matter at all.

Ofcourse You are entitled to have Your opinion and I'll respect that as well.
But I cannot understand why You do not like a easy goin chap like Vettel? But OK, different people, different tastes. Otherwise our world would look too gray :)

UltimateDanGTR

13th March 2010, 18:45

So, after qualifying:

Red Bull and Ferrari the teams to beat as I expected, but I honestly thought Mclaren and Mercedes would be closer than they were.

Force India do look very good and Kubica did a strong job. good to see both HRTs get laps, and the Virgins look faster than the Lotuses.

Could be an interesting race on Sunday, Vettel vs the Ferraris and Virgin vs Lotus my bet on the best battles.

gloomyDAY

13th March 2010, 18:47

Oh, it's not logical, of course, but because I supported Button last year, he was the main antagonist and I started to dislike him. For this season I like all top teams, Mercedes, Ferrari and McLaren, but he seems ridiculous with his energy drink outfit. As I said, not logical. :) Wait! You don't like a GP driver because of his overalls? Yes, that's not only illogical but hilarious. I didn't know that F1 was a beauty pageant.

You know, you'll never see me speaking bad things about Vettel, I'll never say that he is a bad driver, I'll never bash him and although I do think that the Newey designed car makes him to look a bit better than he is, I admit that he is a very good driver. I just say that I don't like the guy. Compare this to what some Vettel fans say about Button or what fans say about Michael or Lewis or Fernando. For me it is obvious that every strong drivers has fans and people who dislike him. But I always try to be polite about the drivers who I do not like. And I don't pretend that it's objective.
And about Garry, some people say that I am too emotional, maybe, but wow, you are overreacting. He didn't say "let teh b@st@rd die", he said that a retirement of the drivers who he doesn't like will be cool for him. I don't see any problem with that. Last year some people here wished Jenson to retire, because they didn't want him as champion. Well, maybe I and Garry do not want Vettel for champion and we have the right for wishes, as they don't matter at all.I can understand that you don't like Vettel, fine. What I don't understand is that you're actually defending someone who wants to see a GP driver crash. The very same person you're defending, Garry, also issued some statements of wanting to see Button eat some curb last season.

It's not much to think about if said in jest, but actually wanting to see someone crash into the barriers or slam into another competitor is a pretty whacked out idea.

airshifter

13th March 2010, 18:49

Great qually session. I'm glad to see both Massa and Hamilton ahead of their respective team mates, though I'm sure long term race strategies will come into the picture.

There are simply too many strong car and driver combinations for me to have a real favorite this year, but overall I'd have to say that Felipe has convinced me he is quite worthy of a title. So I wish him the best but hope that the entire season remains tight amongst the top teams and drivers. I'm also rooting for Kubica among the "best of the rest" cars, as what I feel is a talent worthy of a better team.

Fantastic lap by Vettel. He also seems almost equal to Schumacher in terms of really enjoying the wins/poles.

truefan72

13th March 2010, 18:50

And what's with these sh!ty laptime and position graphics?!

yes they have taken a step back imo
you don't even see the active chart with the top 10 drivers, only the result at the end of the session. very dissapointing.

as to the qualy, yeah vettel did a great lap and so did massawith alonso not far behind and the mclaren's with a bit of catchup work to do. But I think most of their issues are from that horrible bumpy 2nd sector and I still expect hamilton to do fairly well in the race. (would love to have seen kers in those cars)

MSC is still adapting to the car and Rosberg is doing well.

should be a good race tomorrow with the star being really really critical

truefan72

13th March 2010, 18:54

You don't like negative posts about your favourite drivers but that's the worst excuse for not liking a driver.

lol :up:

truefan72

13th March 2010, 18:55

It didn't take long before Button started blaming the car:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/82073

I guess we won't hear much from SaintD for a while. :D

lol how true
the silence is deafening

truefan72

13th March 2010, 19:00

Why such a spread in times? Vetter and Massa destroyed everyone.

Are we seeing cars set up for a heavy fuel load so they compromised low fuel pace?

I love how we have proper independants now. Some real underdogs to support :up:

I think that vettle and Massa absolutely nailed the lap wich is turning out to be fairly tricky in sector 2.

These were very good single lap performances and credit where it is due. However, the race is another thing and different strategies might be in play here as well. I for one think that Rosberg held back a bit for the race and Alonso probably didn't have his best lap in the final stint. The Macs are still fastest in the speed traps and while Whitemarsh laments of lack of speed, i doubt they are as far off as the Q3 time indicated.

Should be a good race though. Still refuse to make any predictions as to race win. I'm simply not sure.

gloomyDAY

13th March 2010, 19:14

ioan

13th March 2010, 19:21

But I think most of their issues are from that horrible bumpy 2nd sector and I still expect hamilton to do fairly well in the race.

The RBR was like on rails and the Ferrari was very well balanced but the McLaren's looked horribly unbalanced in the twisty section. It looks to me that they have a lot of work to do in order to be able to make use of their innovative rear wing design cause as it stands now they are way to slow during direction changes.

ioan

13th March 2010, 19:22

I wonder who will misjudge the situation with the full fuel load and outbrake himself at the start and take out half the field?

gloomyDAY

13th March 2010, 19:23

I wonder who will misjudge the situation with the full fuel load and outbrake himself at the start and take out half the field?Hamilton, like he did in Japan.

F1boat

13th March 2010, 19:43

Wait! You don't like a GP driver because of his overalls? Yes, that's not only illogical but hilarious. I didn't know that F1 was a beauty pageant.

Wow, so smart of you. I think that you would forgive me for preferring a classical team like Ferrari, McLaren or Mercedes over a energy drink based racing team. About me defending Garry, I am aware of his extreme negative opinions about Jenson. I disagree with them, but well, he has the right to voice them, yes? Or are we allowed to dislike only Lewis, MS, Jenson and Alonso?

F1boat

13th March 2010, 19:44

^^^ You hit on a good point about strategy.

Pole may not necessarily win you the race as seen in previous seasons. I'm just hoping that Red Bull can implement a good and clean strategy, even if it makes the race boring, to clinch a win. Also, I hope Ferrari don't decide to put wet tires on a completely dry track.

Well, Red Bull and Ferrari are notorious with bizarre strategy decisions, so they may make the race more interesting that it should be. ;)

F1boat

13th March 2010, 19:47

lol how true
the silence is deafening

Lol guys, it's Saturday evening, the guy might be out for a drink or something :)

edv

13th March 2010, 19:58

I shall be very curious to see where Barichello and Sutil stand after 10 laps tomorrow.
Assuming Barichello opts for the harder compound.

I am quite shocked that the top 9 chose the softs for qualifying. It seems to me that the best strategy would be starting on harder tires with heavy fuel loads, then switching to softs at 75%-85% distance for the fastest, lightest run.
So will the top 9 be making just 1 stop. And when? Wouldn't they be better off going back to softs for the final 15% distance?

It's all very curious.

F1boat

13th March 2010, 20:02

ioan

13th March 2010, 20:03

Lol guys, it's Saturday evening, the guy might be out for a drink or something :)

Qualifying ended 7 hours ago, he might have had one too many drinks since then. :D

F1boat

13th March 2010, 20:09

Qualifying ended 7 hours ago, he might have had one too many drinks since then. :D

Dunno about him, but I am gonna have one right now :D

Robinho

13th March 2010, 21:57

suprised by the gap Red Bull and Ferrari seem to have, their cars look so much more settled. i assume that things will look closer during the race, but it does seem that Ferrrai were hanging on to a bit of pace and Red Bull just toook a little time to get things right and when they did it was very right.

CNR

13th March 2010, 23:11

tyres who's on what compound in the top ten ?
soft would be faster than the hard compound

Hawkmoon

13th March 2010, 23:24

tyres who's on what compound in the top ten ?
soft would be faster than the hard compound

They're all on softs with the exception of Sutil.

edv

13th March 2010, 23:35

I'm expecting these cars to be very Jekyll & Hyde.
We've seen the Jekylls with soft tires running on fumes.
Sunday we'll see what kind of alter egos they have when they're burdened down with 160kg of fuel.
I'm hoping for some surprises...would certainly spice things up a bit to have a group of cars that behave very differently under the different circumstances.
We'll see.

truefan72

13th March 2010, 23:41

woody2goody

13th March 2010, 23:49

let the excuses begin

from speedtv online
http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-button-frustrated-by-mechanical-problem/

F1: Button Frustrated By Mechanical Problem
Jenson Button's MP4-25 has a problem and he isn't quite sure what it is...

cynics might say he's the problem...

but so far he is an improvement to kovy, although kovy qualified about the same or quicker. As a mclaren fan I still wish him the best but he better get on it.

Hamilton didn't exactly excel in that session either. To be fair it was pot luck how the order from 4th to 9th ended up.

Button was quick in the first two sessions, anyway, I do predict Hamilton to destroy his tyres and maybe finish behind the reigning champ as a result.

I reckon Schumacher will have a good race, as even if he's not fully up to speed, he will almost certainly be very consistent.

In the race, based on the grid, I'm going for: 1. Massa, 2. Alonso, 3. Vettel, 4. Webber, 5. Rosberg, 6. Button, 7. Schumacher, 8. Barrichello, 9. Hamilton, 10. Sutil

I know Lewis starts 4th, but I just think he'll kill the tyres too quickly, likewise Vettel, but not quite as severely as Hamilton.

ShiftingGears

14th March 2010, 00:00

I find it weird how people can't seem to function without finding someone to dislike.

For what it's worth - I don't like Vettel, but I don't dislike him either. Anyway to my thoughts on qualifying.

Red Bull:
Excellent lap for Vettel. I would've much preferred Webber to be on pole, but he dropped the soap and will need to be very impressive tomorrow if he is to win.

Ferrari:
Massa also had a great lap. I'm not too surprised with him outqualifying Alonso, his pace is very good. I will be more surprised if he beats him in the race to be honest. Ferrari are looking very good.

McLaren:
I'm not surprised Hamilton outqualified Button. I just think he has more raw pace. But it would be good to see Button get ahead of Hamilton in a few races, as much as I think it will be one-sided. Button thinks there is a problem with the car, fine, but when it comes down to it, if he gets beaten, I hope he can admit he was beaten by a better driver on the day.

Mercedes:
Hoping Rosberg can win a grand prix this year, after spending too long in Williams. He is a solid driver. I imagine he would be looking to hit the ground running early this year - the grid knows what happens when Schumacher gets himself and the car working as a single unit. Which brings me to Schumacher - consistently 4-5 tenths slower than Rosberg - but in the end he was only 3 tenths behind, not bad at all. We will see how his retirement has affected his racecraft tonight.

Renault:
Kubica did quite well to get that car into P9 - there are faster teams on the grid that he outqualified. Petrov was quite underwhelming in comparison, but he'll improve.

Force India -
They were looking very good early on in qualifying. Their progression from backmarkers to midfielders has been quite pleasing, but I really feel they should've been more opportunistic with their driver selection. Sutil is average at best, and Liuzzi really hasn't done much to warrant a drive in a midfield team.

Williams -
Out of the established teams, they are faster than STR and Sauber, who were rescued from the brink. Which really isn't good enough. Head and Williams should be considering changes to their technical team, otherwise they will keep being average. Driver line-up is solid.

Sauber -
De la Rosa didn't embarrass himself, outqualified his teammate. Kobayashi shouldn't be making a habit out of it, otherwise better teams have to reason to be interested in him, because ultra-aggressive passing and defending moves aren't much without pace.

STR-
Don't know what to make out Buemi, but Alguersuari is sinking. He better start swimming quickly otherwise he's going to get the boot before July.

Three backmarker teams -
Not much to pick between Virgin and Lotus. Hispania a lot further back, but at least they weren't causing problems for everyone. Hopefully they'll stay out of the way in the race.

Shifter

14th March 2010, 00:27

Button is being incredibly vague about the car's 'problem'. He's either hiding something from the competition while trying to tell everyone its not his pace, or conversely, it could simply be his pace and he's either making up an excuse or just can't believe its his pace.

Meanwhile, I'm genuinely excited and have almost nothing to complain about, save for the lack of T&S 'position stack' on the left of the screen, which in fact really kind of has me ticked off. The SpeedTV team tried to keep us appraised but there's no way for me to keep track of all the driver positions without it! Now the only way to track quali positions is to do the live T&S thing, but it's difficult in the 'states to be up at these odd hours to watch the race live.

Finally, massive kudos to Vettel, he was in the zone on the pole lap and driving by feel, and seemed to have a certain oneness with the Renault's powerband.

Valve Bounce

14th March 2010, 00:31

You don't like negative posts about your favourite drivers but that's the worst excuse for not liking a driver.

Anyone who dislikes a particular driver simply because they support bunsen is .................; I can't find words to describe this affliction.

Valve Bounce

14th March 2010, 00:37

During the break in quals, our channel Digital 1 (10) showed some cars scraping badly when going over some bumps. So I supsct this may be an issue in the race. Same with tyres. As there are no fuel stops, then the pitstops will now have to revolve around tyre wear, and it will be evident that some drivers and some cars will do better than others.

On this basis alone, this may be a very interesting race - go too fast and the guy becomes the hare, while the tortoise goes past.

For this alone, I have put my sig on the line and backed SchM over Rosberg. Wouldn't it be funny if SchM turned out to be the tortoise that won the race!!

52Paddy

14th March 2010, 00:55

Missed qualifying but the grid looks interesting. Force India made the top 10 and hopefully they'll score points. It would be a nice change of fortunes for them :up:

Less than 12 hours to go :bounce:

Valve Bounce

14th March 2010, 00:57

wedge

14th March 2010, 01:15

Anyone who dislikes a particular driver simply because they support bunsen is .................; I can't find words to describe this affliction.

Female genitalia

Valve Bounce

14th March 2010, 02:27

Female genitalia

Oh No!! that is something very dear to me. Try something else. :D

gloomyDAY

14th March 2010, 02:42

Female genitaliaNow I'm hungry.

Alright, enough of hanging around here, Pacquiao fight is on tonight!

I'm going to wake up to the results tomorrow morning.
Let's do it Vettel!

Saint Devote

14th March 2010, 04:03

Why would I have excuses for Jenson? You people still dont get it! I have explained why I support Jenson - ad nausem - and I know he does his best.

The race is tomorrow and it is new.

The more experienced drivers should come to the fore and I expect drivers like Schumacher, Button, Barrichello and Webber to handle the situation well.

The question is whether drivers like Vettel and Hamilton will destroy their rear tyres or adapt quickly.

The circuit is abasive and this grand prix could be settled only in the last ten laps.

ozrevhead

14th March 2010, 04:05

I'd love to see Sutil win. :up:
Me 2nd that :D

Missed quai due to my cousin's 21st - Would of loved better than sixth for Mark but this year I think its going to be a situation where the top 8 are split by milliseconds so all u need to do is exhale incorectly and youd lose pole :p

Saint Devote

14th March 2010, 04:07

Now I'm hungry.

Alright, enough of hanging around here, Pacquiao fight is on tonight!

I'm going to wake up to the results tomorrow morning.
Let's do it Vettel!

Please remove that "signature" which is false and misleading and you know damn well.

It is a pity that Pino is not interested in controlling individuals such as yourself that are always aiming some sort of snide attack at me.

Saint Devote

14th March 2010, 04:26

Me 2nd that :D

Missed quai due to my cousin's 21st - Would of loved better than sixth for Mark but this year I think its going to be a situation where the top 8 are split by milliseconds so all u need to do is exhale incorectly and youd lose pole :p

Qualification is not as vital as it has been in recent years. The grands prix this year are going to be less like sprint shows and more along the lines of proper motor racing.

The drivers are now going to have to learn to handle the car as different stages all the while conserving tyres and brakes.

Vettel has been more prone to throwing the car off the track but not Webber.

The driver that can manage his car well will have good outcomes from now on and the last ten laps could become amongst the most dramatic.

A lot could be revealed tomorrow not the least being that EVERYONE has to now get used to a dfferent type of racing not seen since the great days of yore 20 years ago - and I can tell you that they were WONDERFUL racing years.

EuroTroll

14th March 2010, 04:46

A lot could be revealed tomorrow not the least being that EVERYONE has to now get used to a dfferent type of racing not seen since the great days of yore 20 years ago - and I can tell you that they were WONDERFUL racing years.

That's true, but Schumacher and Barrichello have actually raced in F1 without refueling. Probably have forgotten about it though, the old gits. :p :

ShiftingGears

14th March 2010, 05:09

Apparently the telecast is being delayed here because House is on...

Fantastic.

Saint Devote

14th March 2010, 05:14

That's true, but Schumacher and Barrichello have actually raced in F1 without refueling. Probably have forgotten about it though, the old gits. :p :

I doubt it - but Sunday WILL reveal so much :D

F1boat

14th March 2010, 06:35

I doubt it - but Sunday WILL reveal so much :D

Yes, I think so. For me the big question is whether Red Bull were hiding their race pace in testing like the qualifying pace. If they can be consistently fast Vettel might win easily. But I won't be surprised if the Ferrari boys have the best car in race conditions and this might allow them to win. In my opinion this is very interesting and I can't wait to see how the race will unfold. I think that today we may see the first battle between Michael and Hamilton, which will also be very cool and interesting to see.

Valve Bounce

14th March 2010, 08:01

Apparently the telecast is being delayed here because House is on...

Fantastic.

For goodness sake, don't you have digital TV. It's on 1HD.

ShiftingGears

14th March 2010, 08:06

For goodness sake, don't you have digital TV. It's on 1HD.

The start is delayed on One HD so that they can show it on 10 and 1 at the same time. Look at the TV guide if you don't believe it.

DexDexter

14th March 2010, 08:10

A lot could be revealed tomorrow not the least being that EVERYONE has to now get used to a dfferent type of racing not seen since the great days of yore 20 years ago - and I can tell you that they were WONDERFUL racing years.

Oh yeah, I remember those wonderful days when cars used to run out of fuel and Mclarens won all the races. The racing back in the days before refuelling was worse than it was after refuelling was introduced.

Valve Bounce

14th March 2010, 08:29

The start is delayed on One HD so that they can show it on 10 and 1 at the same time. Look at the TV guide if you don't believe it.

OK! I just logged onto Formula1.com, checked the race time converted to local time, and it says 23.00. Now that means we will have the F1 program on channels10 and HD1 commencing at 20.30 (or 10.30) with an introduction of half an hour of yack yack interlaced with some replays of Quals and maybe some shots of practice before the official start of the race.

Now!! I didn't realise the race won't start until 11.00 tonight, so I will set my recorder because I will probably fall asleep by then. :(

Hawkmoon

14th March 2010, 08:33

The start is delayed on One HD so that they can show it on 10 and 1 at the same time. Look at the TV guide if you don't believe it.

That's pathetic! I just assumed it was live on One. What the **** are Ten doing? I like House but it isn't better than a live GP and anybody who thinks it is can watch the delayed race.

What possible reason can there be NOT to show the race live? Bloody qualifying was live for god's sake!

Hawkmoon

14th March 2010, 08:38

OK! I just logged onto Formula1.com, checked the race time converted to local time, and it says 23.00.

OK. Now I feel like a bit of a tool. Still, Ten have done this sort of thing in the past so who can blame me for jumping to conclusions! :erm:

CNR

14th March 2010, 08:42

James Allen to replace peter windsor on ten / one

Ranger

14th March 2010, 08:51

James Allen to replace peter windsor on ten / one

Good move if it is true.

His blog is excellent and he resorts to BS a lot less than Windsor does/did.

ShiftingGears

14th March 2010, 08:56

Whoops. Why the later start?

James Allen to replace peter windsor on ten / one

Good.

Dave B

14th March 2010, 09:12

I have explained why I support Jenson - ad nausem ...

Couldn't have said it better myself! ;)

ST205GT4

14th March 2010, 09:40

Oh yeah, I remember those wonderful days when cars used to run out of fuel and Mclarens won all the races. The racing back in the days before refuelling was worse than it was after refuelling was introduced.

They were wonderful days when Prost, Senna, Mansell et al were racing. Sure McLaren won a lot of races, but Williams had a year on auto-win as well with their super duper active suspension. That was much worse than no refuelling!

Still I have to say I'm looking forward to this season more than I have for any season since I was a kid. It looks like there are more teams fielding cars and driver line ups that are potential race winners than any season I can think of and I've been watching since the late 80s.

ozrevhead

14th March 2010, 09:51

I wont be 100% sold on no refuling till i see it - Im still worried that it will still be a prosession

superocean

14th March 2010, 10:28

ozrevhead

14th March 2010, 10:37

Better hope it's not a procession with Mark in 6th. I don't want this season to turn into 19 most exciting qualifying "races" and races turn into parade laps over and over again.

I can't wait for the start line action. Who is going to chop who?
Thats what Im hoping - i guess like all things you want to see it in action till your conviced.........everything is great in theory

Koz

14th March 2010, 10:44

Who is going to chop who?

My predictions:

Alonso will lead after the second corner. Fettel will choke, Webber will be third and chasing down Massa, closely followed by Lewis and Rosberg... MS will be somewhere in this pack.

Sutil will have a top 5 result.

Spanish

14th March 2010, 10:46

Ferrari changes the engines:

"Ferrari has decided to change the twin engines of their cars for the race at Sakhir. This decision by the new regulations for F1, will have no penalty on the starting grid in the first eight engine changes.

A small problem discovered by the engineers of the 'Scuderia' during the night has led Ferrari to change engines as a precaution before a major problem. Keep in mind that the priority of Ferrari this season is starting rate.

ozrevhead

14th March 2010, 10:48

My predictions:

Alonso will lead after the second corner. Fettel will choke, Webber will be third and chasing down Massa, closely followed by Lewis and Rosberg... MS will be somewhere in this pack.

Sutil will have a top 5 result.
If i knew that was going to happen Id take it and run :D

Valve Bounce

14th March 2010, 11:06

Whoops. Why the later start?

It has been my experience in previous years that quals generally start around 2 pm local time, while races generally start at 3 pm local time. This does result in an hour difference between the times when quals start and race starts.

ozrevhead

14th March 2010, 11:32

Formula1.com is reporting both Ferraris had engine changes

ShiftingGears

14th March 2010, 11:35

Formula1.com is reporting both Ferraris had engine changes

They'll be right. No penalties.

James Allen is a much better addition to One HD than Peter Windsor.

Valve Bounce

14th March 2010, 11:42

For Aussis, live telecast from Bahrain has commenced on HD1. Forget about House and Channel 10. Not in sync.

ozrevhead

14th March 2010, 11:49

true

and Im liking Craig Baird to the OneHD team too :D

PS Where is everyone in chat???

ioan

14th March 2010, 12:19

Stupid start from Felipe, he better learn not to leave place for his team mate next time.

djparky

14th March 2010, 12:55

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz- well what a suprise so far Borehain has lived down to expectations- another mind numbing bore of a GP at this wretched track

ozrevhead

14th March 2010, 13:04

i think its no refulling - there wont be another pitstop to provide overtaking

Its a presession and it will be all year - Pole = win in 2010

Dave B

14th March 2010, 13:12

This really wants to liven up in the last phase of the race :z

djparky

14th March 2010, 13:15

i think its no refulling - there wont be another pitstop to provide overtaking

Its a presession and it will be all year - Pole = win in 2010

having fuel stops didn't make it that exciting either- Borehain has never produced anything remotely close to an interesting grand prix- it's just another of those horrible Tilke creations

Garry Walker

14th March 2010, 13:20

That is the single saddest thing I have ever heard on these forums... How can you be so to wish misfortune for someone. I'm a Ferrari guy, but even I wouldn't wish that at all. It's just pathetic. He could get hurt or something...

blablablabla.

Compared to Michal, Sebastian is totally a very different person - kinda "down to earth"-type, very pleasant IMHO.
I'll share your opinion about Michael though ....

I think Vettel is a very fake person and his outward "friendliness" is more act than anything. I usually tend to be right about these things.

Oh yeah, I remember those wonderful days when cars used to run out of fuel and Mclarens won all the races. The racing back in the days before refuelling was worse than it was after refuelling was introduced.

Exactly, and the same is happening today. Complete procession.

Stupid start from Felipe, he better learn not to leave place for his team mate next time.

2nd time in his ferrari years that I am dissapointed with Felipe, the first time was with his battle against Alonso at the europe gp 2007. You can bet Schumacher would have closed the door more firmly on Alonso.

But hey, still could happen that the two a$$es at front collide and felipe takes the win. Heres hoping.

As I am writing this, problems for Vettel. How sad :D

ioan

14th March 2010, 13:22

Red Bull will never become champions with the sh!ty Renault engine, another Newey 'master' choice! :\
Not that I care about RBR as a team, but Vettel deserves a car that is up to his level.

Garry Walker

14th March 2010, 13:24

Red Bull will never become champions with the sh!ty Renault engine, another Newey 'master' choice! :\

I think they wanted mercedes, but due to various wheelings and dealings, were not able to get it. McLaren I am sure objected quite a lot too.

ioan

14th March 2010, 13:28

I think they wanted mercedes, but due to various wheelings and dealings, were not able to get it. McLaren I am sure objected quite a lot too.

They could have taken up the Ferrari but Newey never liked it, might be that he has a complex from his McLaren years. :D

And while we are talking about people with complexes, why is Alonso trying to ruin his engine when it's not needed to push like hell while Massa was already told to hold back?

Garry Walker

14th March 2010, 13:31

They could have taken up the Ferrari but Newey never liked it, might be that he has a complex from his McLaren years. :D
I dont think Ferrari would have wanted that deal.

MS under a bit of threat from Button, if it was Hamilton behind him I would be worried, but thankfully with button there is no reason to fear :D

ioan

14th March 2010, 13:33

Also it looks like teh harder tires are good enough for slightly more than 2/3rds of a race distance.

ioan

14th March 2010, 13:35

I dont think Ferrari would have wanted that deal.

RB already have a Ferrari engine in the STR, they could have easily swapped them as they did when Newey came on board.

MS under a bit of threat from Button, if it was Hamilton behind him I would be worried, but thankfully with button there is no reason to fear :D

:D

ioan

14th March 2010, 13:51

:D Ferrari Wins! :D

ioan

14th March 2010, 13:52

LOL at Rosberg!

He couldn't pass Vettel who had a broken car to deal with!
:rotflmao:

:laugh: at those who still say that Barbie Rosberg is better than Massa! :laugh:

F1boat

14th March 2010, 13:53

Delightful Race! Forza Ferrari!

ioan

14th March 2010, 13:53

And finally Heikki gets a team mate he can beat!

Garry Walker

14th March 2010, 13:55

LOL at Rosberg!

He couldn't pass Vettel who had a broken car to deal with!
:rotflmao:

:laugh: at those who still say that Barbie Rosberg is better than Massa! :laugh:

Well, Vettel was doing times in s2 that neither of the Mercedes guys was able to do in the whole race, he upped his pace considerably as he learnt how to deal with the problem. In the two last laps, Vettel did his Personal bests in S2.

So we have to be fair to Rosberg, he did not have the car/pace to pass Vettel

Dave B

14th March 2010, 13:55

blablablabla..
You are Rubens Barrichello and I claim my five pounds. :p

Hawkmoon

14th March 2010, 13:56

They're baaaaaaaack! :D

ioan

14th March 2010, 13:58

Well, Vettel was doing times in s2 that neither of the Mercedes guys was able to do in the whole race, he upped his pace considerably as he learnt how to deal with the problem. In the two last laps, Vettel did his Personal bests in S2.

So we have to be fair to Rosberg, he did not have the car/pace to pass Vettel

I agree that Rosberg didn't have the pace, even though he had the car, a 100% working car.

Garry Walker

14th March 2010, 14:01

I agree that Rosberg didn't have the pace, even though he had the car, a 100% working car.

A 100% mercedes car was still slower/as fast than/as the RedBull once Vettel learnt how to deal with it. you know I am not even slightly a fan of Rosberg, but we have to be fair to him. There was no way anyone in that Mercedes was getting past Vettel today, the car difference is just too much.

F1boat

14th March 2010, 14:03

At the end of the race the Red Bull were faster than Massa and Webber also had the problem for one or two laps. But heroic effort by Vettel and kudos for him.
But I am so happy for FERRARI!

ioan

14th March 2010, 14:09

A 100% mercedes car was still slower/as fast than/as the RedBull once Vettel learnt how to deal with it. you know I am not even slightly a fan of Rosberg, but we have to be fair to him. There was no way anyone in that Mercedes was getting past Vettel today, the car difference is just too much.

I also know that you don't like Vettel! ;)

I agree that the two Ferraris had an easy job getting past Vettel, but a few laps later Hamilton whom I am no fan went by without a problem and the McLaren was worse than the Mercedes in S2 the whole week end.

Rosberg had the pace to catch Vettel at a rate of 1.5 seconds/lap and then that was it he strangely lost his appetite when he got to the dessert!

F1boat

14th March 2010, 14:14

I also know that you don't like Vettel! ;)

I agree that the two Ferraris had an easy job getting past Vettel, but a few laps later Hamilton whom I am no fan went by without a problem and the McLaren was worse than the Mercedes in S2 the whole week end.

Rosberg had the pace to catch Vettel at a rate of 1.5 seconds/lap and then that was it he strangely lost his appetite when he got to the dessert!

Yes, ioan, but the RBR worked pretty well at the end of the race. I watched the live timing.

ArrowsFA1

14th March 2010, 14:17

Rosberg had the pace to catch Vettel at a rate of 1.5 seconds/lap and then that was it he strangely lost his appetite when he got to the dessert!
Rosberg didn't lose his appetite, Vettel picked up speed, having initially lost speed when he had car trouble.

F1boat

14th March 2010, 14:19

They're baaaaaaaack! :D

Yes, and hopefully their development pace will be better than the one of Red Bull and McLaren Mercedes.

ioan

14th March 2010, 14:22

Yes, ioan, but the RBR worked pretty well at the end of the race. I watched the live timing.

It was still broken, unless they have a self healing car now. The driver made the difference, even Garry who doesn't like Vettel accepted it ;) .

ioan

14th March 2010, 14:23

Yes, ioan, but the RBR worked pretty well at the end of the race. I watched the live timing.

Doesn't change the fact that Rosberg was 1.5 seconds a lap faster until he caught Vettel.
Did Vettel all of a sudden get so much faster, I doubt it.

SGWilko

14th March 2010, 14:25

Stupid start from Felipe, he better learn not to leave place for his team mate next time.

He just didn't fancy Onslo throwing toys out of pram from race 1 - and very wise too.

SGWilko

14th March 2010, 14:27

Red Bull will never become champions with the sh!ty Renault engine, another Newey 'master' choice! :\
Not that I care about RBR as a team, but Vettel deserves a car that is up to his level.

If it was Newey's fault,why did Webbers car not fail in the same way? Vettel just unlucky perhaps?

ArrowsFA1

14th March 2010, 14:30

Did Vettel all of a sudden get so much faster, I doubt it.
Yes he did. When his car first lost power he also lost speed, but for some reason - either the problem fixed itself, or Vettel found a way to drive around the problem - he picked up the pace and his last lap was the fastest anyone did on the last lap.

14th March 2010, 14:30

ioan

14th March 2010, 14:32

If it was Newey's fault,why did Webbers car not fail in the same way? Vettel just unlucky perhaps?

It's just the first race, last year the most engine failures were signed Renault in a red Bull car.

Anyway it was just an exhaust problem this time, but I wonder if this will shorten the engine life or not.

ioan

14th March 2010, 14:34

Yes he did.

Really, he just trundled around with the problem and than suddenly when Rosberg was right behind him he found the solution?

I doubt he was waiting until the last moment to speed up and risk being overtaken if he could have kept Rosberg at a bigger distance.

VkmSpouge

14th March 2010, 14:37

Well done to Fernando Alonso for winning the race of the season. Had Vettel's exhaust not broken he would have got the victory but as it was the Ferraris showed they had reliability and pace.
Lewis Hamilton showed he had the pace to match the Ferraris and Red Bulls but he lost out in the first half of the race by making that mistake which let Nico Rosberg passed. Mercedes clearly 4th best of the teams in race pace.
I think Force India are best of the rest, Vitantonio Liuzzi looked quite comfortable in 9th place, shame that Adrian Sutil had that spin early on.
Well done to Lotus for getting both cars (almost) to the finish. A fine achievement.

F1boat

14th March 2010, 14:37

Really, he just trundled around with the problem and than suddenly when Rosberg was right behind him he found the solution?

I doubt he was waiting until the last moment to speed up and risk being overtaken if he could have kept Rosberg at a bigger distance.

ioan, when Alonso, Massa and Lewis overtook Vettel, he was doing times like 2.03. When Rosberg tried to pass him, he improved to 2.02, then 2.01 and finally to 2.00, which was faster than both Lewis and Felipe at that time. And Nico, of course.

F1boat

14th March 2010, 14:46

He was slightly faster than the crimson cars. And he was winning in the SLOW part of the track, huge surprise. I think that Ferrari are very close and in clean air maybe better, but they need to work on qualy pace. Fortunately, their reliability was better. I keep my fingers crossed for them in the development race.
And I have to say that McLaren-Mercedes are not so far behind in race pace. It seems that like Ferrari, qualy pace was the problem.

AndyL

14th March 2010, 14:49

Well done to Lotus for getting both cars (almost) to the finish. A fine achievement.

I second that, a big well done to Lotus. Both cars classified, and Kovalainen got down to some very respectable lap times. Only 2 seconds slower than the big boys at the end. Proof that they've done the right thing by focusing on reliability I think, the more laps they get under their belt the more they learn and the faster they get.

superocean

14th March 2010, 14:53

Was Vettel's problem an exhaust rather than the engine itself, which wouldn't be Renault's fault.

Back to the race... bit of a snoozefest really. Left me wondering why I was so excited for the season to start for the last few months. Hope Australia is better.

Great race by Ferrari, good debut for Lotus. What was up with Webber?
I had the same thoughts as well. It seems it's a race to see who comes out after the 1 and only pit stop. I hope the rest of the season isn't like this.

He was slightly faster than the crimson cars. And he was winning in the SLOW part of the track, huge surprise. I think that Ferrari are very close and in clean air maybe better, but they need to work on qualy pace. Fortunately, their reliability was better. I keep my fingers crossed for them in the development race.
And I have to say that McLaren-Mercedes are not so far behind in race pace. It seems that like Ferrari, qualy pace was the problem.
We still have not seen how fast the renault and mclaren are after their rear differs have been change as mandated.

F1boat

14th March 2010, 14:55

Yes, well done for Lotus!

F1boat

14th March 2010, 14:56

I had the same thoughts as well. It seems it's a race to see who comes out after the 1 and only pit stop. I hope the rest of the season isn't like this.

We still have not seen how fast the renault and mclaren are after their rear differs have been change as mandated.

Yes, but I hope that McLaren will use their amazing ability to develop the car to closer to Red Bull - but hopefully not to Ferrari :D

Malbec

14th March 2010, 14:59

Yes he did. When his car first lost power he also lost speed, but for some reason - either the problem fixed itself, or Vettel found a way to drive around the problem - he picked up the pace and his last lap was the fastest anyone did on the last lap.

Vettel was always quick through sector 2 despite his problem, not even Alonso and Massa could close in through there when they were behind him, they killed him in sector 1 and 3 though. After they passed him he made mistakes through sector 2 which slowed him down but by the time Rosberg caught him Vettel was setting PB's through sector 2 again, allowing him to hold off the Merc.

Malbec

14th March 2010, 15:00

I second that, a big well done to Lotus. Both cars classified, and Kovalainen got down to some very respectable lap times. Only 2 seconds slower than the big boys at the end. Proof that they've done the right thing by focusing on reliability I think, the more laps they get under their belt the more they learn and the faster they get.

Very well done to them, and they should make further advances once we get back to the European races when they've got a big update on the way...

14th March 2010, 15:09

Was Webber ok at the end of the race? He seemed knackered, almost slurring his words!

(watching on BBC red button F1 forum)

wedge

14th March 2010, 15:12

Was Webber ok at the end of the race? He seemed knackered, almost slurring his words!

(watching on BBC red button F1 forum)

Trying to be diplomatic. Not happy with his performance this weekend.

52Paddy

14th March 2010, 15:15

Not a bad start to the season. I like the lack of refuelling and it should bring an interesting dilemma to some tracks. I wonder will we have anybody run out fuel before the end of the race this season.

Great to see Ferrari back on form, they do look like an ominous team this year. But Vettel drove well up until that exhaust problem. Mercedes and McLaren look decent but will be hard pressed to keep up with Ferrari and Red Bull if this race is anything to go by (which I suppose it isn't much). Big disappointment from Sauber who completely bluffed winter testing and don't have a proper sponsor to show for it :down: Force India could still have a few decent races though and Renault showed pace especially with Kubica moving through the field in the early stages.

But Virgin and HRT will want to sort out their mechanical woes sooner rather than later. Felt gutted for HRT when Chandhok went out so soon...but top marks to Lotus for finishing (well, getting classified) :up:

Robinho

14th March 2010, 16:46

top marks to Lotus, only 2 laps down, a few seconds of the pace (of the front runners), bith cars finished. Virgin i think did well, ran more laps in one stint than they have before and were just as quick as Lotus.

i also think Hispania did amazingly well to get 2 cars to the grid, and Senna managed to run a decent amount of laps.

DazzlaF1

14th March 2010, 17:10

My analysis

McLAREN: Race pace was good seeing as Hamilton was on the leaders pace pretty much when in clear air, but they need to improve their qualifying form

MERCEDES: I think the words "flattened to decieve best sums them up, clearly in my view they are the weakest of the top 4 when it comes to their car. Not that Rosberg matters though, he had a great weekend consistently in the top 5 and he gets first blood over Schumi

RED BULL: On his day with this car, Vettel can be unbeatable but the team need to rid themselves of those reliability gremlins that came again today

FERRARI: Supreme, they have by far the best overall package, definitely the team to beat

WILLIAMS: On course to be the best of the rest overall, Barrichello had a quiet but solid day whereas the Hulk will want to forget his debut very quickly

RENAULT: Very unlucky not co come away with a point, Kubica's pace was an indication of what might have been, and Petrov was running well in 11th until he was forced to retire

FORCE INDIA: Shame for Sutil to be caught up in the early mess at the start but at least for them Liuzzi profited from it most to come away with 2 well deserved points.

TORO ROSSO: Just like qualifying, very disappointing showing from them, early days though

LOTUS: Sensational, the aim was to build a car capable of making the finish, they've done that but also managed to show some great pace, bodes well for the Bacelona updates coming

HISPANIA: Just thankful to see them get some running, Chandhok's lack of practice time showed while Senna got a good 54 laps of running over the whole weekend.

SAUBER: For all the good pace shown in testing, they were the disappointment of the weekend, neither car was on the money throughout.

VIRGIN: If only they can get their reliability problems sorted then they should be OK, pacewise they are up there with Lotus if not quicker.

Wasted Talent

14th March 2010, 17:34

It was still broken, unless they have a self healing car now. The driver made the difference, even Garry who doesn't like Vettel accepted it ;) .

Don't like doing this but I agree with ioan

WT

Saint Devote

14th March 2010, 17:36

The best driver out there won - Jenson has to shift up a gear - Webber has to shift up two gears - Vettel has to learn from Alonso - Hamilton is certainly up to speed and understands the new rules - Massa discovered what life with Fernando is like: all fourteen seconds of it.

Its early days - the next few races will show how accurate Sakhir was.

Martin Whitmarsh is early out of the gate, worrying about the show.

Well, along with many other fans, all they really need to do is not bring in artifical rubbish, but remove what purists like myself hate more than anything else.

That aerodynamics are the curse of motor racing. They create by comparison the ugliest goddam racing cars on this earth, are responsible for high costs and the dratted rise of one-make formula's.

A small rear wing to keep the back down and simple front wing or may be NONE at all, BUT engine power and fat tyres and let the real racing drivers RACE!

This sport should and used to be about engines not airplanes.

It will not avoid processions but it WILL allow overtaking by good drivers - just he way it was about three decades ago.

And for those who watch SPEED - this was definitely the WORST pre-race show ever. Comeback Peter Windsor he was excellent and he is knowledgeable.

BDunnell

14th March 2010, 18:05

truefan72

14th March 2010, 19:38

Ok first the race

boring, the rule changes and no refueling, as I predicted, would result in a boring race with no overtaking, processional racing and zero excitement for the fans. There really is no strategy involved and the fastest cars pretty much pull away from the field stretching the margin out over the course of the race. I don;t think there was one single actual overtaking maneuver in the top 12 cars the entire race.

Now the teams/cars

1. Ferrari Damn fast and good overall pace. Congrats to Alonso fair and square. Massa (and the rest of the field) got comprehensively beaten today. No doubt they are the leading team right now.

2. RBR Faster than anyone else but very susceptible to failure. This is classic Newey ala Mclaren circa 2001-2005. Some have blamed the Renault engine, but I think that's the best part of their car. The problem today for vettel had nothing to do with the engine. Speaking off, Vettle 2010 could be like kimi in those frustrating Mclaren days. Fast car, but no relaiabilty. Vettel was cruising today and save the trouble would have won. Webber needs to improve..or make better starts.

3. Mclaren slower than the top 2 but better than the rest by a solid margin. Hamilton probably got more out of the car than imagined and could have challenged massa if he had gotten by Rosberg. Well Button... Excuses probably and shamefully beaten by Hamilton.

4. Mercedes GP Rosberg beating MSC was to be expected IMO. Both cars finished well but it was amzing that rosberg could not get past Vettel. MSC had an unspectacular but solid race.

5. Force India Who knows what sutil could have done, but Liuzzi managed well to come home 9th. Based on the race pace and live timing, these two cars were fairly quick.

6. Renault Kubica had a horrible start and much like Force India, their actual race pace was encouraging.

7. Williams Disappointing, but at least Rubens got a point. Hulk shows signs of being really good.

8. STR Jaime put in a really good lap, Beumi struggled. The car will improve but whatever...

9. Sauber disappointing plane and simple

10. Lotus very good race for them best of the back

11. Virgin faster than lotus but less reliable and the race proved us all to be correct.

12. HRT good to see them running. not as tragic as once thought. Actually this goes to all the 3 new teams who showed that they were not as awful as some predicted. yes they were slow but not lapped 4/5 times either.

Saint Devote

14th March 2010, 19:40

May I be the first to say how valuable and accurate, as ever, Felipe Massa's pre-season analysis proved to be? I was appalled by how dangerous this race was, with those dreadfully slow backmarkers from the new teams posing a mortal danger to those at the front.

Or not.

Evidently Massa does not think it is too dangerous to race otherwise he would have withdrawn.

Risky yes but this is the pinnacle of motor racing and if the drivers at the 24 hours of Le Mans are able to handle it then so will F1.

Also, the backmarkers are not incompetent - just look how well Kovaleinen drove.

There is a situation now that has not been in F1 for some time - that is all. New teams will be slower but it was encouraging to see how WELL Lotus performed.

F1boat

14th March 2010, 19:47

The backmakers drove very well today. My special congratulations to Bruno, who drove very well and did the best possible job with that car.

DazzlaF1

14th March 2010, 19:49

12. HRT good to see them running. not as tragic as once thought. Actually this goes to all the 3 new teams who showed that they were not as awful as some predicted. yes they were slow but not lapped 4/5 times either.

Their detractors are probably eating their words now.

Here's hoping HRT get some better running in Melbourne, especially Chandhok, kinda felt sorry for him this weekend.

truefan72

14th March 2010, 20:03

Their detractors are probably eating their words now.

Here's hoping HRT get some better running in Melbourne, especially Chandhok, kinda felt sorry for him this weekend.

yeah, me too

Langdale Forest

14th March 2010, 20:17

Nice to see a new team in F1, HRT, but they will always be a team that will keep on failing, espacialy with Chandok crashing after 2 laps.

steveaki13

14th March 2010, 21:45

Although we didn't see much of Senna being lapped he appeared to have reasonable pace and moved nicely out of the way of leaders before retiring.

As for Virgin and Lotus they both really impressed me.

I would have liked to see Chandhok racing to see how he handled the leaders coming up behind him, but any way they will both do better in Australia.

52Paddy

15th March 2010, 00:31

Now the teams/cars

2. RBRWebber needs to improve..or make better starts.

And I fear that this season will be the undoing of his career :( That's not just based on this race. But if he doesn't come up with something this season, I would be surprised to see him at Red Bull (or in any decent machinery) next year.

3. MclarenWell Button... Excuses probably and shamefully beaten by Hamilton.

Excuses? I thought he was quite humble and graceful in defeat. He said that he was conservative on the tyres. He didn't know his limits in the opening stages of the race. Hamilton may have beaten Button hands down today, but, as far as I'm concerned, Button was merely saying he has more learning to do. Shamefully beaten? I think not considering this is Button's first year at the team and Hamilton has driven for nobody but McLaren. Button may be reigning world champion but Hamilton also has that on his CV.

Saint Devote

15th March 2010, 00:55

And I fear that this season will be the undoing of his career :( That's not just based on this race. But if he doesn't come up with something this season, I would be surprised to see him at Red Bull (or in any decent machinery) next year.

Excuses? I thought he was quite humble and graceful in defeat. He said that he was conservative on the tyres. He didn't know his limits in the opening stages of the race. Hamilton may have beaten Button hands down today, but, as far as I'm concerned, Button was merely saying he has more learning to do. Shamefully beaten? I think not considering this is Button's first year at the team and Hamilton has driven for nobody but McLaren. Button may be reigning world champion but Hamilton also has that on his CV.

Yes, Jense knows he needs to step it up a gear and he knows that he is a driver that has to completely comfortable in his car. But when he is he wins races and he is world champion.

But then while Hamilton is evidently more comfortable in the Mclaren he did not acquit himself too well even though he finished third - unexpectedly as Lewis said.

At the start Hamilton was unable to follow the nimble Alonso through past Massa and was beaten by the Brazilian. Then he ran wide and Rosberg went through to take fourth from him - and it was the slower Mercedes crew that let Hamilton by as Rosberg was going through pit exit after the pitstop.

If it was up to the drivers only then Rosberg would have been on the podium.

truefan72

15th March 2010, 03:18

Yes, Jense knows he needs to step it up a gear and he knows that he is a driver that has to completely comfortable in his car. But when he is he wins races and he is world champion.

But then while Hamilton is evidently more comfortable in the Mclaren he did not acquit himself too well even though he finished third - unexpectedly as Lewis said.

At the start Hamilton was unable to follow the nimble Alonso through past Massa and was beaten by the Brazilian. Then he ran wide and Rosberg went through to take fourth from him - and it was the slower Mercedes crew that let Hamilton by as Rosberg was going through pit exit after the pitstop.

If it was up to the drivers only then Rosberg would have been on the podium.

wow, that is some spin.did you look at the live timing and the pal times?
Hamilton was consistently about .5-.8 seconds a lap faster than rosberg after the pit stops.So are suggesting that the slower Rosberg deserved to be on the podium because he was slower than Hamilton for 2/3rd's of the race?
Meanwhile Hamilton caught up to Vettel and past him in about 4 laps, while Rosberg could not get past him on a lighter fuel load. Hamilton deserved every bit of his 3rd place.

Valve Bounce

15th March 2010, 03:35

wow, that is some spin.did you look at the live timing and the pal times?
Hamilton was consistently about .5-.8 seconds a lap faster than rosberg after the pit stops.So are suggesting that the slower Rosberg deserved to be on the podium because he was slower than Hamilton for 2/3rd's of the race?
Meanwhile Hamilton caught up to Vettel and past him in about 4 laps, while Rosberg could not get past him on a lighter fuel load. Hamilton deserved every bit of his 3rd place.

Hamilton must have had an agenda hidden somewhere in his car. Maybe we should call for banning hidden agendas. :D

truefan72

15th March 2010, 07:29

Hamilton must have had an agenda hidden somewhere in his car. Maybe we should call for banning hidden agendas. :D

;)

15th March 2010, 08:35

if anyone missed the race it can be downloaded @ http://www.torrentzone.net (http://www.torrentzone.net/)

Mia 01

15th March 2010, 08:40

When we think of Heikki in the MacLaren last year, and the compare with the race yesterday, my question is: Heikki is as good as Jenson!

Saint Devote

15th March 2010, 09:30

I suggest you look at the live timing report, because what you say here is nonsense. Hamilton also said the Mclarens performance was as expected and the car is lacking downforce. Rosberg was consistently slower than Lewis for about 75% of the race. :rolleyes:

Ease up with the attack buddy boy! Okay?

So he was slower for 25% of the time - it is not the quickst driver that always wins, track position counts far more when overtaking is virtually impossible as it is at Sakhir- it remains that Hamilton failed to follow Alonso through and Massa defended well and it was Hamilton that ran wide at Turn 4 that allowed Rosberg through and it was the mistake at the Mercedes pitstop that allowed Hamilton to just pass Rosberg.

Lacking downforce? Excuses again eh?!

gids73

15th March 2010, 09:35

Good comeback by Schumi - he was on Rosberg's pace... Webber, hope you qualify well in Melbourne!

SGWilko

15th March 2010, 09:39

Ease up with the attack buddy boy! Okay?

What attack???? :rolleyes:

ShiftingGears

15th March 2010, 09:43

Ease up with the attack buddy boy! Okay?

So he was slower for 25% of the time - it is not the quickst driver that always wins, track position counts far more when overtaking is virtually impossible as it is at Sakhir- it remains that Hamilton failed to follow Alonso through and Massa defended well and it was Hamilton that ran wide at Turn 4 that allowed Rosberg through and it was the mistake at the Mercedes pitstop that allowed Hamilton to just pass Rosberg.

Lacking downforce? Excuses again eh?!

So? He fluffed the start and lost one place. Every driver has done that at least once. It's how they react to it that counts.

Saint Devote

15th March 2010, 09:45

wow, that is some spin.did you look at the live timing and the pal times?
Hamilton was consistently about .5-.8 seconds a lap faster than rosberg after the pit stops.So are suggesting that the slower Rosberg deserved to be on the podium because he was slower than Hamilton for 2/3rd's of the race?
Meanwhile Hamilton caught up to Vettel and past him in about 4 laps, while Rosberg could not get past him on a lighter fuel load. Hamilton deserved every bit of his 3rd place.

Rosberg said after the race that he started losing grip when close to Vettel when the car was lighter - why do you concentrate on Hamilton's positives yet when it comes to those such as Rosberg only attacking is good?

Saint Devote

15th March 2010, 10:03

So? He fluffed the start and lost one place. Every driver has done that at least once. It's how they react to it that counts.

Amazing - Hamilton can do anything and he gets a free pass from the "white folks".......

Now naturally attacks WILL be made on Button and Rosberg.

ShiftingGears

15th March 2010, 10:09

Amazing - Hamilton can do anything and he gets a free pass from the "white folks".......

What the hell are you on about?

Now naturally attacks WILL be made on Button and Rosberg.

I critisise any driver worthy of critisism.

henners88

15th March 2010, 10:13

Amazing - Hamilton can do anything and he gets a free pass from the "white folks".......

Now naturally attacks WILL be made on Button and Rosberg.
Nobody is is excusing Hamilton here, as there is not a great deal to be excused for IMO. Also nobody is bashing Jenson so whats your point? This was the first race of the season in vastly different machinery, and every driver makes a mistake. Alonso was outqualified by his teammate, yet this doesn't make him any less a driver does it?

You attack drivers you are not necessarily fond of as much as anyone here, so don't start playing that card. You did say last week that "Jenson is a much more superior driver than his fellow Brit" did you not? You get your knickers in a twist over Jenson, but you'll happily bash Hamilton given half a chance.. :rolleyes:

Mark

15th March 2010, 11:35

Racism is not tolerated on this forum.

truefan72

15th March 2010, 16:14

When we think of Heikki in the MacLaren last year, and the compare with the race yesterday, my question is: Heikki is as good as Jenson!

lol. I was thinking the exact same thing just now

truefan72

15th March 2010, 16:16

Ease up with the attack buddy boy! Okay?

So he was slower for 25% of the time - it is not the quickst driver that always wins, track position counts far more when overtaking is virtually impossible as it is at Sakhir- it remains that Hamilton failed to follow Alonso through and Massa defended well and it was Hamilton that ran wide at Turn 4 that allowed Rosberg through and it was the mistake at the Mercedes pitstop that allowed Hamilton to just pass Rosberg.

Lacking downforce? Excuses again eh?!

how rich you dismiss the downforce thing as an excuse while providing 20 for Button and Rosbrg's performance. How funny is that?

Dave B

15th March 2010, 16:19

Nice to see a new team in F1, HRT, but they will always be a team that will keep on failing, espacialy with Chandok crashing after 2 laps.
I'm not so sure. They didn't have any money or any future a few weeks ago, but then worked wonders to turn out two working cars at very short notice. Bahrain was the first time that either of their cars had run, and in KC's case he didn't even get to practice. To get Senna's car to do 17 laps of the race isn't something you should underestimate - remember how unreliable the other newbies were in winter testing.

Give them time, I reckon they'll be alright.

truefan72

15th March 2010, 16:22

Rosberg said after the race that he started losing grip when close to Vettel when the car was lighter - why do you concentrate on Hamilton's positives yet when it comes to those such as Rosberg only attacking is good?

you lost me saint.
I responded to what you said about Hamilton vs. Rosberg and you interpret that as me showing bias against Rosberg?
Are discussing lap times attacking Rosberg?
Is the fact that he did not get by vettel with a broken car a subjective argument?

When your comments or posts have been challenged, the easiest thing to do is to cry foul. The mature thing to do would be to properly defend your opinions, or accept being mistaken in your analysis.

truefan72

15th March 2010, 16:26

I'm not so sure. They didn't have any money or any future a few weeks ago, but then worked wonders to turn out two working cars at very short notice. Bahrain was the first time that either of their cars had run, and in KC's case he didn't even get to practice. To get Senna's car to do 17 laps of the race isn't something you should underestimate - remember how unreliable the other newbies were in winter testing.

Give them time, I reckon they'll be alright.

I've been no fan of Campos or USF1 but I must commend HRT for delivering 2 cars on the grid. I have a lot of respect for what that group accomplished this weekend and my kudos go out to the engineers who probably did not sleep for 36 hours to get 2 cars ready for Sunday. KC deserves a pass for this race. They did not embarrass themselves and were no danger to anyone or an other car.

K-Pu

15th March 2010, 17:08

It seems everyone (including me) agrees on the good effort put by HRT. Good!

In fact, I´ve never seen this here since Sauber was allowed to come back :D

ioan

15th March 2010, 17:44

...when overtaking is virtually impossible as it is at Sakhir...

Big load of poo that is.

jens

15th March 2010, 18:43

Well, as usual, pre-season hype and idealism experiences a huge realization, when the season starts. This both in terms of spectacle and general pecking order. After all those guesses and expectations of an extremely tight season I fear that now Alonso will disappear into the distance and clinch an easy title. :\ Then again, Räikkönen's season started in the same way in 2007 and didn't turn out an easy walk for him at all...

Overall, based on what we saw in winter, Ferrari's win seems logical. They are the only ones, who didn't show a sign of a clear weakness (McLaren - aerodynamics, Red Bull - reliability, Mercedes - general pace). Overall not much surprising, although McLaren was struggling a bit more than would have expected. But Hamilton's race pace, once he got into clean air, was promising. For me Renault was the revelation of the weekend. Kubica was matching Mercedes' lap-times and Petrov has adequately adapted to F1. He botched Q2, but other than that seemed to have decent pace.

The gaps between drivers seemed somehow strangely huge, regardless of the length of the circuit. Last year there were times, when the whole field was within 1 seconds, now in Q3 only Top3 were! Feels like we are back into the 90's...

F1boat

15th March 2010, 19:09

I fear that now Alonso will disappear into the distance and clinch an easy title. :\ T

I would love it lol.

Shifter

15th March 2010, 19:24

truefan72

15th March 2010, 21:25

One thing to remember about this race: It is the one and only time of the year that there is no wet-weather potential, meaning that all the engineers set every car up for a guaranteed 100% dry race. In Britan, Europe, Asia, Australia, Canada and Brazil, there's always the potential for rain even if it isn't forecasted, therefore the cars have at least some wet-weather consideration in the mechanical-grip setup, otherwise the drivers could find themselves duplicating Massa's bad day at Silverstone. This makes Sakhir a singularity.

I hate wet weather races and really think it is a bit absurd to wish for poor conditions as means to spice up racing. F1 should be at its best under dry and ideal conditions. To me folks that want to see wet weather races as an opportunity to be entertained are like nascar fans wanting to see races with plenty of wrecks. both go about the wrong way to provide unpredictable results.

I really thought that with 5 teams fast enough t get pole, we would have seen better and close racing. I doubt that wet weather will make a difference if nothing changes in the rules.

Saint Devote

16th March 2010, 00:41

I disagree that there are no overtaking opportunities at Sakhir, but with the regs the way they are, drivers seemed alot more cautious IMO. The cars are alot heavier and late breaking into a corner like Hamilton did on the first lap is not ideal if you are trying to make your tyres last 35 laps.

Of course there are opportunities but it is VIRTUALLY impossible because unless the driver ahead is materially slower or makes an error or co-operates [most unlikely normally] or the driver has to be conservative then it will not happen.

The cars can become unstable as Rosberg dicsovered when trying to overtake Vettel.

The aerodynamics do cause a problem.

And the only reason Hamilton was overtaken was because he made an error and then he in turn overtook Rosberg because of that pitstop delay problem.

All the grumbling to "improve the show" revolves around no overtaking.

Saint Devote

16th March 2010, 00:47

I hate wet weather races

Many drivers LOVE wet weather and even if the do not relish it are always pretty good.

I am sure someone like Kovaleinen these days in the Lotus 127 will be extremely happy with a wet race because it increases the driver's role - just ask Vettel at Monza in 2008 and Hamilton at Silverstone.

airshifter

16th March 2010, 02:36

Ease up with the attack buddy boy! Okay?

So he was slower for 25% of the time - it is not the quickst driver that always wins, track position counts far more when overtaking is virtually impossible as it is at Sakhir- it remains that Hamilton failed to follow Alonso through and Massa defended well and it was Hamilton that ran wide at Turn 4 that allowed Rosberg through and it was the mistake at the Mercedes pitstop that allowed Hamilton to just pass Rosberg.

Lacking downforce? Excuses again eh?!

Just where did the flawed drive of Hamilton put him at the end of the race? I'm not a big follower of Lewis, but to fault his drive is rather childish when your boy wonder couldn't get close enough to even consider a pass that Lewis didn't make.

Exactly where was it on the track that Jenson got past Webber?

truefan72

16th March 2010, 03:00

Many drivers LOVE wet weather and even if the do not relish it are always pretty good.

I bet you most drivers don't like wet races

Shifter

16th March 2010, 03:03

I wasn't even necessarily talking about wanting wet weather, I was referring to differences in car setups. I guarantee you Sakhir creates different results due to the paramaters that the engineers will set the car at that would be insane at most other circuits where weather can be a factor. For instance, it wouldn't surprise me if the Saubers (hopefully) look quite a bit better at Albert Park, rain or shine, simply because of the potential of weather.

F1boat

16th March 2010, 06:27

I bet you most drivers don't like wet races

I agree. I remember that once even Todt said that Michael Schumacher, one of the great rainmasters in F1, actually dislikes wet races. He is the best of them, but he still dislikes them.

Valve Bounce

16th March 2010, 07:57

I agree. I remember that once even Todt said that Michael Schumacher, one of the great rainmasters in F1, actually dislikes wet races. He is the best of them, but he still dislikes them.

Well, yeah!! the water seeps down the back of your neck and down your spine, and then you know where it ends up!! :eek:

Garry Walker

16th March 2010, 12:35

Doesn't change the fact that Rosberg was 1.5 seconds a lap faster until he caught Vettel.
Did Vettel all of a sudden get so much faster, I doubt it.

Vettel did actually get faster.
Rosberg was doing 2.00 laps the last part of the race and his pace remained pretty much the same behind Vettel.

Lacking downforce? Excuses again eh?!

Excuses? Excuse is when you claim your car suddenly developed a problem in the qualifying when it mattered, yet there is no proof of that anywhere around.

ozrevhead

16th March 2010, 12:44

Just where did the flawed drive of Hamilton put him at the end of the race? I'm not a big follower of Lewis, but to fault his drive is rather childish when your boy wonder couldn't get close enough to even consider a pass that Lewis didn't make.

Exactly where was it on the track that Jenson got past Webber?
both came in together and RB botched the pitstop (to go with the three they botched up last year :rolleyes :)

three words to describe the race

BORING BORING BORING!

No refulling made the cars heavier which made them slower...who wants to watch slow cars

No overtaking because drivers couldnt get into their slipstream long enough to make a move thanks to the tires.

There was one positive from the GP though......that it actually finished!!!

Cant remember when ive been more disatisfied in a race - thats alot Bernie!

gloomyDAY

16th March 2010, 19:03

Vettel did actually get faster.
Rosberg was doing 2.00 laps the last part of the race and his pace remained pretty much the same behind Vettel.You're right Garry. Vettel's pace did get faster as the race continued. Looks like Liz decided to stabilize just as Rosberg was charging towards Vettel. Christian Horner also said that the problem with the car seemed intermittent, which is consistent with the post-race analysis of a spark plug failure.

Sonic

16th March 2010, 20:40

I bet you most drivers don't like wet races

I can think of a few who did/do.

F1boat

16th March 2010, 20:54

Well, Vettel I think likes them really much.

steveaki13

16th March 2010, 21:55

Vettel I think is clearly the most at home in the wet, Hamilton can be also i.e Fuji 2007 & Silverstone 2008 but on occasions he struggles i.e Monza 2008 Quali and early race.
I can't wait for the first wet race this year and to see how MS deals with it.

Just another Question is the Malaysian GP being held again at the later time as it was last year when the locals forcast a monsoon every day?
Meaning we would be at higher risk of another farcial shortened race?

Saint Devote

17th March 2010, 00:19

Saint Devote

17th March 2010, 00:29

Vettel did actually get faster.
Rosberg was doing 2.00 laps the last part of the race and his pace remained pretty much the same behind Vettel.

Yes but track position always dominates over speed unless something really extraordinary happens and Rosberg said after the race that as his car got lighter the front began to wash away as he got into the wake of teh Red Bull a common occurrence in f1.

And even if he could do something if he pushed I think that his first race in his new team AND in front of Schumacher all weekend, finishing instead of trying to be foolish was a good move.

Well driven Nico.

Valve Bounce

17th March 2010, 00:55

Valve Bounce

17th March 2010, 00:58

Change your tone or ignore me. Understand?

:eek:

truefan72

17th March 2010, 01:03

Change your tone or ignore me. Understand? Then we can discuss.

get a grip saint no one insulted you or attacked you. I suggest you change your tone or leave the forum instead of looking for contrived anger to mask your embarrassment. Stop trying to pick a fight and have the decency to properly respond to those with the temerity to challenge your statements.

Valve Bounce

17th March 2010, 01:04

get as grip saint no one insulted you or attacked you. I suggest you change your tone or leave the forum instead of looking for contrived anger to mask your embarrassment. Stop trying to pick a fight and have the decency properly respond to those with the temerity to challenge your statements.

Hear, hear!! :up:

Saint Devote

17th March 2010, 02:31

get a grip saint no one insulted you or attacked you. I suggest you change your tone or leave the forum instead of looking for contrived anger to mask your embarrassment. Stop trying to pick a fight and have the decency to properly respond to those with the temerity to challenge your statements.

It is one thing to debate and quite another to include insults - and the message was not addressed to you anyway.

But it is HIGH TIME that Pino begin to act against people that do not disagree but do so including personal attacks.

I am not afraid of debate, of being wrong or mistaken. Are you?

PS: I am an Israeli - embarassment is not one of our "national traits".

Saint Devote

17th March 2010, 02:41

Exactly where was it on the track that Jenson got past Webber?

Jenson had a quicker pitstop and did so in the pits - where most modern day overtaking stems from and Webber was unable to overtake Jenson.

And Webber had better begin to shift up a few gears given that his teammate qualified on pole and led most of race. Webber should have been at worst in fourth position at the end.

No wonder Red Bull signed Webber for one season only. Next stop Australia and if this does not ignite him then nothing will.

airshifter

17th March 2010, 02:44

Change your tone or ignore me. Understand? Then we can discuss.

Obviously you can't answer the question. Which doesn't surprise me... being a Lewis detractor and all! :laugh:

It's amazing the double standard you use to try to involve a moderator for a simple question to counter your view of the race. Lewis finish ahead of Jenson after passing the car ahead of him in the pits. Jenson finished behind Lewis after making the same type of pass on a slower car farther back in the field. Yet you question the race of Lewis?

My "tone" is one reflecting the reality of the race. If you want to live in fantasy land and post statements that make no sense, don't think that it will keep anyone else from reflecting reality.

Understand?

Saint Devote

17th March 2010, 02:57

I bet you most drivers don't like wet races

I did not day most, I said MANY.

But like or not, drivers - whether good in the wet or not - put it out their minds because it is emotionalistic baggage and they get on with their job which they all love.

Wet races are enjoyable to watch but the effect on tv is very different from being at the actual track.

Saint Devote

17th March 2010, 03:11

Obviously you can't answer the question. Which doesn't surprise me... being a Lewis detractor and all! :laugh:

Detractor? No, I am not at all like your sort.

Lewis is an exceptional driver. Since entering F1 he has had to put up with the histrionics of Alonso, racism at the tracks in Spain, Brazil and Italy and he maintained a wonderful self-controlled British demeanour never, lashing out.

He has had his moments such as the sad Dave Ryan affair and his failure to meet his triathlon challenge to Button. Maybe with Jenson alongside that will change.

In the wet he can be brilliant but he does have flaws and makes mistakes at crucial moments which is something that does not place him next to Schumacher or Alonso.

I do not support him although this season my attitude towards him as Jenson's teammate has mellowed. Naturally during a season I will defend Jenson but that does not make it a personal thing against a driver.

I like Lewis. He is one of the drivers that is nicest in real ways to his fans - and he does not have to be and is not paid for it either.

As a driver compared to Jenson he is better at adapting but when everything is right for Jenson and him are equal matches. In other words he has a wider repertoire. But as a Jenson supporter I am so proud of the courage he has displayed to step out of his comfort zone and join Mclaren.

The Renault PR, Bradley Lord put is so well a few weeks ago.

If Jenson does not win then I prefer that it be his teammate because I want the Mclaren to be the best car.

So eat your words because few here will ever say a positive word or have ever about Jenson. Small people.

gloomyDAY

17th March 2010, 04:59

Hamilton - P3

Lewis - P7

I think you should get used to it because I know I will.

Valve Bounce

17th March 2010, 05:11

Hamilton - P3

Lewis - P7

I think you should get used to it because I know I will.

Wait a minute - I'm confused here. I think Bunsen inherited P7 by passing Mark Webber in the pits. Otherwise he would have been P8. BUT he was lucky enough to take advantage of a very slick McLaren pit stop, and so beat Mark. But yeah!! Mark had better pull his socks up and do better in Melbourne. Finishing behind bunsen appears to be a Big No! No! , and he won't get another contract. :(

gloomyDAY

17th March 2010, 05:28

Hamilton - P3

Button- P7

I think you should get used to it because I know I will.Fixed!

*embarrassed face*

Wait a minute - I'm confused here. I think Bunsen inherited P7 by passing Mark Webber in the pits. Otherwise he would have been P8. BUT he was lucky enough to take advantage of a very slick McLaren pit stop, and so beat Mark. But yeah!! Mark had better pull his socks up and do better in Melbourne. Finishing behind bunsen appears to be a Big No! No! , and he won't get another contract. :( Yes, I remember Ted Kravitz stating that the McLaren engineers getting an itchy trigger finger and getting ready to bring in both cars. The strategy worked because Hamilton jumped Rosberg and Button jumped Webber.

Red Bull are turning into a very competitive team. I don't think they'll like a one-sided battle amongst their two drivers. You need two drivers pushing one another as hard as possible. Webber, raise your game!

Valve Bounce

17th March 2010, 05:48

My wife has a friend in her Pilates class who knows Mark Webber very well. I'll see if I can get her to give him a good kick up the bum. :D

henners88

17th March 2010, 08:18

Lewis is an exceptional driver.
He has had his moments such as the sad Dave Ryan affair and his failure to meet his triathlon challenge to Button. Maybe with Jenson alongside that will change.

I'm sure Lewis will look back on his "failure to meet his triathlon challenge to Button", and it'll be his biggest regret of his career. :laugh:

Other than on this forum, where is this even mentioned? Is it even relevent when discussing the credentials of an F1 driver? I wonder if Jenson was as bothered about it as you? I doubt it.

You don't like anyone here making any form of criticism of Jenson and have now gushed with praise for Lewis to demonstrate that you are not a Lewis detractor? I wonder how long it'll be before the Monaco crash, the Monza crash, and the triathlon "failure" will be used again to justify why Jenson is a better driver, and why he is not performing up to expectation in comparison to Lewis.

Saint Devote

17th March 2010, 10:05

My wife has a friend in her Pilates class who knows Mark Webber very well. I'll see if I can get her to give him a good kick up the bum. :D

Make sure she aims it well, otherwise her foot may just connect a steel plate! :D

Webber is definitely capable of keeping up with Vettel and this may well be his best chance ever to win - and wouldnt that just be an early highlight to 2010? :s mokin:

Valve Bounce

17th March 2010, 10:48

Fixed!

*embarrassed face*

Red Bull are turning into a very competitive team. I don't think they'll like a one-sided battle amongst their two drivers. You need two drivers pushing one another as hard as possible. Webber, raise your game!

Actually, I've been searching Autosport but can't find anything relating to that burst of smoke from Mark's car after the start. Does anyone know anything about this? I was afraid that Mark might get a penalty because that caused an accident.

SGWilko

17th March 2010, 11:15

BORING BORING BORING!

Did you shout those three words out loud while stamping your feet? ;)

SGWilko

17th March 2010, 11:20

I was afraid that Mark might get a penalty because that caused an accident.

The team should be warned about overfilling the oil tanks first, then if it happens again, they should potentially face sanctions.

gloomyDAY

17th March 2010, 14:52

Can teams get a penalty for overfilling the oil tank?

I thought it was pretty clever to have a smoke screen as you zoomed by the competition.

SGWilko

17th March 2010, 15:00

Can teams get a penalty for overfilling the oil tank?

I thought it was pretty clever to have a smoke screen as you zoomed by the competition.

I certainly would not have thought the act of overfilling was punishable, but the act of allowing a hazard to others caused by oil smoke as a result of overfilling might be an issue....

This is, you must bear mind, F1 as opposed to whacky reces.

steveaki13

17th March 2010, 18:06

It could fall under the same bracket as being punished for letting a car exit the pits with a dangerous loose wheel or wheel nut.

Garry Walker

17th March 2010, 18:27

Do you think we could just let it be and simply put it down to a racing incident? Every time something happens in recent times, people look for ways in which someone can be punished. I'm personally sick of the controversy, and a race not being able to continue without everyone running for the stewards room. It seems to be a culture which has intensified within F1 over the past 3 or 4 seasons..I just want to see great racing and results which are determined on the track itself.. :)

You should be penalized for posting something like that that actually makes sense.
10 place drop in grid position for you.

ioan

17th March 2010, 18:40

The team should be warned about overfilling the oil tanks first, then if it happens again, they should potentially face sanctions.

Exactly, it was very dangerous and it's a very basic procedure to measure oil levels so no excuses there.

steveaki13

17th March 2010, 19:00

Do you think we could just let it be and simply put it down to a racing incident? Every time something happens in recent times, people look for ways in which someone can be punished. I'm personally sick of the controversy, and a race not being able to continue without everyone running for the stewards room. It seems to be a culture which has intensified within F1 over the past 3 or 4 seasons..I just want to see great racing and results which are determined on the track itself.. :)

I have to say I agree.
It appears that every team and driver is paranoid of penalties. The race should just take its full course with only speeding penalties and alike punished in races then serious incidents should be looked at after the race, but not every incident needs punishing does it.

truefan72

17th March 2010, 22:58

Wait a minute - I'm confused here. I think Bunsen inherited P7 by passing Mark Webber in the pits. Otherwise he would have been P8. BUT he was lucky enough to take advantage of a very slick McLaren pit stop, and so beat Mark. But yeah!! Mark had better pull his socks up and do better in Melbourne. Finishing behind bunsen appears to be a Big No! No! , and he won't get another contract. :(

you know what?
I am a huge Hamilton fan, but I would love to see webber do very well and podium in Australia. i think it would be great for him and the entire country. If he did win that race, I would stand up and applaud. He has had a few miserable races at Melbourne and I'm not sure why because the aggressiveness of that track really does suite his style.

I actually had Webber as my dark horse for the WDC and predicted that he would get the better of his teammate this year. So far Vettel is making me eat my words :(

truefan72

17th March 2010, 23:09

Detractor? No, I am not at all like your sort.

Lewis is an exceptional driver. Since entering F1 he has had to put up with the histrionics of Alonso, racism at the tracks in Spain, Brazil and Italy and he maintained a wonderful self-controlled British demeanour never, lashing out.

He has had his moments such as the sad Dave Ryan affair and his failure to meet his triathlon challenge to Button. Maybe with Jenson alongside that will change.

In the wet he can be brilliant but he does have flaws and makes mistakes at crucial moments which is something that does not place him next to Schumacher or Alonso.

I do not support him although this season my attitude towards him as Jenson's teammate has mellowed. Naturally during a season I will defend Jenson but that does not make it a personal thing against a driver.

I like Lewis. He is one of the drivers that is nicest in real ways to his fans - and he does not have to be and is not paid for it either.

As a driver compared to Jenson he is better at adapting but when everything is right for Jenson and him are equal matches. In other words he has a wider repertoire. But as a Jenson supporter I am so proud of the courage he has displayed to step out of his comfort zone and join Mclaren.

The Renault PR, Bradley Lord put is so well a few weeks ago.

If Jenson does not win then I prefer that it be his teammate because I want the Mclaren to be the best car.

So eat your words because few here will ever say a positive word or have ever about Jenson. Small people.

I think the issue I have and some others have was with your original analysis of the barahn GP with respect to Button's performance vs. Hamilton. In trying to explain Button's GP you seemed to rationalize his performance and then used the same exact rationale to undermine Hamilton's.

I've had to issue more than a few mea culpa's in my time here, even to folks that I found problematic. I don;t think anyone here dislikes Button. It is simply a case of them questioning his core ability or managing a top car when conditions are not ideal. As a mclaren fan I wish him the very best and hope he does very well. I want the WCC this year. But I want to see the button that was willing to step up to the challenge of competing against a better team.

Saint Devote

17th March 2010, 23:36

I think the issue I have and some others have was with your original analysis of the barahn GP with respect to Button's performance vs. Hamilton. In trying to explain Button's GP you seemed to rationalize his performance and then used the same exact rationale to undermine Hamilton's.

I've had to issue more than a few mea culpa's in my time here, even to folks that I found problematic. I don;t think anyone here dislikes Button. It is simply a case of them questioning his core ability or managing a top car when conditions are not ideal. As a mclaren fan I wish him the very best and hope he does very well. I want the WCC this year. But I want to see the button that was willing to step up to the challenge of competing against a better team.

I think people here resent Jenson and give Lewis a free pass. Notonly here but definitely in the media.

At Sakhir it was Jenson's first race with Mclaren so any overt criticism OUGHT to be muted for the first few races and in the view of Coulthard and Mansell until the Monaco Grand Prix.

However Jenson also has to step up a gear and he admitted to being too conservative - but at least give him a chance to settle down.

Lewis is the scion of Mclaren, well ensconsed and a better performance than Jenson is expected at this stage. At Bahrain he went wide at turn four and allowed Rosberg through - he passed Nico as the German driver was exiting the pits after a delay in the Mercedes pit stop. And of course inherited third because if Vettel's problems. The result was good but it was not because he drove especially well and as Lewis is celebrated as a "Schumacher figure" he should not be making those errors.

Even Schumacher was criticized for finishing sixth!!!

Lewis Hamilton is NEVER criticized and when people like me do so it is viewed as tantamount to committing some sort of sin.

Even Mark Hughes, grand prix editor of Autosport, and an apologist for Hamilton - [his Monza GP 2009 piece remains the most jingoistic report I have ever read and as a long time reader of the magazine it disappointed me greatly to see what the publication will allow] - recently wrote ADMITTING that when Jenson started to win there WAS a resentment and horror - his word, because as far as the press were concerned Jenson had been written off. How DARE any driver prove the press wrong!

And Hughes much to my surprise discussed Jenson's Monaco Grand Prix weekend and acclaimed it to be as good as any from Prost or Schumacher - he actually agreed with Ross the Boss!

So this is where I stand.

airshifter

18th March 2010, 02:15

I think people here resent Jenson and give Lewis a free pass. Notonly here but definitely in the media.

Did it ever occur to you that maybe some people simply think more of the ability of Lewis than they do the ability of Jenson? Just as you have your opinion others have theirs.

I've never given Lewis any pass, and have openly stated he tossed away the first title he should have won and Kimi inherited it. I actually see Lewis in much the same light that I see Schumacher... a brilliant driver much of the time but often both are their own worst enemies.

I don't by any means think Jenson is a crap driver, I just simply don't rate him as high as you do. This season we have a better comparison as to how he rises to the challenge against Lewis, and being that I don't really favor one over the other it gives me no reason to bias myself in favor of either.

I can give benefit of the doubt to all drivers on new to them teams. But really with the changes to the cars and rules all drivers are having to adapt this year.

I think you need to understand that on this forum there are a lot of supporters of just about any driver, and if you are critical of any of them there are people who will debate your point of view. It's just their opinion, and they are only doing what you would do if they were critical of Jenson. Take that for what it is and not as an attack when it happens.

As for Webber.... I actually agree. I personally don't see him as being competitive enough to still be in the Red Bull car.

F1boat

18th March 2010, 07:30

Lewis Hamilton is NEVER criticized and when people like me do so it is viewed as tantamount to committing some sort of sin.

Huh? Try criticize Vettel and see what happens.

Big Ben

18th March 2010, 08:05

Huh? Try criticize Vettel and see what happens.

and then say you hate him because he's young :laugh:

Valve Bounce

18th March 2010, 08:05

Even Schumacher was criticized for finishing sixth!!!

Lewis Hamilton is NEVER criticized and when people like me do so it is viewed as tantamount to committing some sort of sin.

So this is where I stand.

This is BS here in this forum. This poster claims that he visited this forum for quite some time before he joined. I don't know what the hell he was reading here.

For the record, Lewis Hamilton was roasted here after the crane lifted him, after his contretemps with Alonso, and certainly after he lied to get Jarno Trulli disqualified. There are more members here who do not like Hamilton than those who like him.

AS for SchM, even those here who do not like him have praised his efforts for doing so well after his 3 year layoff.

I think this poster is just trying to get sympathy for himself here, and it will not wash with most members who have followed discussions here for a number of years.

Big Ben

18th March 2010, 08:13

Sonic

18th March 2010, 08:20

This is BS here in this forum. This poster claims that he visited this forum for quite some time before he joined. I don't know what the hell he was reading here.

For the record, Lewis Hamilton was roasted here after the crane lifted him, after his contretemps with Alonso, and certainly after he lied to get Jarno Trulli disqualified. There are more members here who do not like Hamilton than those who like him.

AS for SchM, even those here who do not like him have praised his efforts for doing so well after his 3 year layoff.

I think this poster is just trying to get sympathy for himself here, and it will not wash with most members who have followed discussions here for a number of years.

I'm inclined to agree; I've only been on the board for a year but in that time Hamilton has been blasted on a number of occassions (and I have been right in the front row of critics), but despite my open dislike of Lewis it was obvious, even before they shared a team, that Lewis was something special.

The saint is somewhar blinded when it comes to Jenson, whereas most others take a more balanced view - even when their favourite drivers are involved.

Hawkmoon

18th March 2010, 09:17

At Sakhir it was Jenson's first race with Mclaren so any overt criticism OUGHT to be muted for the first few races and in the view of Coulthard and Mansell until the Monaco Grand Prix.

I'm sorry but I don't think the reigning world champion should be given a break at all for a poor performance, just because he switched teams. Raikkonen and Alonso won first time out for Ferrari and Alonso won his second race after joining McLaren. And you're suggesting that Button should get six races before he has to perform? Not bloody likely!

Button hasn't done a Damon Hill and joined a backmarker like Arrows were in '97. He's joined a front running team with a car that scored a podium first time out. If Button is still off the pace by Monaco it will say a great deal about his quality as a world champion.

F1boat

18th March 2010, 10:54

Honestly, the thing that surprises me in such forums is the fact that if you are not good as X, you are crap. For me you can be a bloody good driver who used well the opportunities to become champion, even if you are inferior to Hamilton, Alonso or M Schumacher.

K-Pu

18th March 2010, 11:05

What surprises me is when someone acts like yhe "motorsport press", and bashes to death a pilot after a bad performance, only to praise him after a good one.

I lost count of how many times Schumacher was "confirmed" dead and buried in 2005, only to come back in 2006 and have a great season. In fact, Schumacher was considered dead and buried in 2003 by the media...

And this leads me to the point of Button. I´ve never agreed with that thing of you being as good as your last race was, so we can´t judge Button´s career at McLaren only with this first race, but IMO (a very big IMO) Button is more or less where he should be. It´s not that I hate-dislike-want to kill him, it´s just I rate him not as highly as other 5 or 6 pilots out there.

Saint Devote

18th March 2010, 11:09

I'm sorry but I don't think the reigning world champion should be given a break at all for a poor performance, just because he switched teams. Raikkonen and Alonso won first time out for Ferrari and Alonso won his second race after joining McLaren. And you're suggesting that Button should get six races before he has to perform? Not bloody likely!

Button hasn't done a Damon Hill and joined a backmarker like Arrows were in '97. He's joined a front running team with a car that scored a podium first time out. If Button is still off the pace by Monaco it will say a great deal about his quality as a world champion.

You are entitled to your view - I just detest it when people [and I am not pointing at you personally] instead of reasonably critiqueing Jenson, rubbish him and do not recognize that whilst he is not as versatile as Lewis, he is a highy accomplished racing driver - one of the best, and does produce performances equal to the best.

I did not suggest six races, I suggested a while - it was when I subsequently read what Mansell and Coulthard had said.

A driver is judged by his peaks not his valleys. Imagine if Lewis had joined Mclaren in 2009 if Alonso had been there for 2007 and 2008? The odds are his reputation would have been in tatters - these days there is a rush to judgement that would have destroyed the career of someone like Nigel Mansell, and just think how sad it would have been if we had missed THAT?!

And the MOST ridiculous thing after last Sunday was to see Michael Schumacher, one of the greatest EVER drivers get critsized in the European press for finishing sixth!!!! That is disgusting to me. It shows no respect, no understanding and how far the press have sunk.

I give Schumi as much time as he wants and no matter what happens I have decided that it will never influence the greatness he achieved in his previous F1 career.

Big Ben

18th March 2010, 11:43

Scumi's heart just melted

wedge

18th March 2010, 12:50

This is why I hate fanboys. Blinkered and myopic opinions:

Even Mark Hughes, grand prix editor of Autosport, and an apologist for Hamilton - [his Monza GP 2009 piece remains the most jingoistic report I have ever read and as a long time reader of the magazine it disappointed me greatly to see what the publication will allow] - recently wrote ADMITTING that when Jenson started to win there WAS a resentment and horror - his word, because as far as the press were concerned Jenson had been written off. How DARE any driver prove the press wrong!

And Hughes much to my surprise discussed Jenson's Monaco Grand Prix weekend and acclaimed it to be as good as any from Prost or Schumacher - he actually agreed with Ross the Boss!

And the MOST ridiculous thing after last Sunday was to see Michael Schumacher, one of the greatest EVER drivers get critsized in the European press for finishing sixth!!!! That is disgusting to me. It shows no respect, no understanding and how far the press have sunk.

truefan72

18th March 2010, 15:28

I'm inclined to agree; I've only been on the board for a year but in that time Hamilton has been blasted on a number of occassions (and I have been right in the front row of critics), but despite my open dislike of Lewis it was obvious, even before they shared a team, that Lewis was something special.

The saint is somewhar blinded when it comes to Jenson, whereas most others take a more balanced view - even when their favourite drivers are involved.

exactly,

I will profess to being an adamant Hamilton supporter, but that never meant I wore blinders to his faults or the quality of his competition. I have said on many occasions that I think Alonso is the best driver out there and I can't stand the guy. I think MSC is the best ever and i can't stand the guy, I ranked kimi higher than LH while the he was in F1 and I recognize that Vettel is in fact the real deal.

being supportive of one's driver does not mean having to be dismissive about the quality of their said competition. No matter what the personal taste and preferences are, one has to recognize the ability and accomplishments of others. And while saint is entitled to putting up a spirited defense of his fav drive, ultimately he cannot ignore or be in denial of the facts at hand.

F1boat

18th March 2010, 15:34

truefan72

18th March 2010, 15:44

I'm sorry but I don't think the reigning world champion should be given a break at all for a poor performance, just because he switched teams. Raikkonen and Alonso won first time out for Ferrari and Alonso won his second race after joining McLaren. And you're suggesting that Button should get six races before he has to perform? Not bloody likely!

Button hasn't done a Damon Hill and joined a backmarker like Arrows were in '97. He's joined a front running team with a car that scored a podium first time out. If Button is still off the pace by Monaco it will say a great deal about his quality as a world champion.

yep

and he Alonso got second in his first race with mclaren too.

I'm sorry, but the reigning world champion joining mclaren in prime form does not get a pass at all. He is expected perform on a very high standard immediately. Button is not a rookie nor did he make the switch this past weekend. He had the entire winter and testing to get used to the car. Early reports even indicated that the car somewhat suited his style since it biased towards the under-steer. Add to that his rep as a "smooth driver" able to manage his tyres better than LH. Therefore his performance in Qualifying and the race were disappointing and really he only has himslef to blame. There is no way I give him a pass for this race.

truefan72

18th March 2010, 15:59

You are entitled to your view - I just detest it when people [and I am not pointing at you personally] instead of reasonably critiqueing Jenson, rubbish him and do not recognize that whilst he is not as versatile as Lewis, he is a highy accomplished racing driver - one of the best, and does produce performances equal to the best.

Nobody doubts his accomplishments as a driver what many question, includ9ing myself, is his ability to outperform others given somewhat equal machinery. or perform admirably when things are not perfect. btw He chose to come to mclaren and put the target squarely on hi back. TBH If I were him I would have remained at Mercedes GP firmly entrenched as the #1 driver and whilst being joined by Rosberg, still have that confidence and aura of continuing a winning combination. Although i suspect that Rosberg would have been right there with him

Imagine if Lewis had joined Mclaren in 2009 if Alonso had been there for 2007 and 2008? The odds are his reputation would have been in tatters -
Actually quite the opposite. He would actually be regarded even higher for pushing a dog of a car beyond its means, scoring 2 race victories and getting more points than anybody else in the 2nd half of the season. He would have been hailed as a phenomenal rookie with a bright future and expected to do great things this year with an improved car.

And the MOST ridiculous thing after last Sunday was to see Michael Schumacher, one of the greatest EVER drivers get critsized in the European press for finishing sixth!!!! That is disgusting to me. It shows no respect, no understanding and how far the press have sunk.

That is flat out wrong. Almost every press that I read, far from criticized him and actually praised him for doing well in the Mercedes GP all things considered & finishing ahead of Button and Webber. And I read a lot of press. If you could point me to some articles that "slammed his performance" I will be much obliged.

truefan72

18th March 2010, 16:04

Well, I have to say that the discussion was constructive as many people cleared their position. I believe that we should agree that all F1 drivers are good and those of them who achieved wins and championships are very good. Some are exceptional.

yep agreed!

It does take a special skill to do what these guys do.
Even at the back f the grid.

But like in everything in life,. there are a few who are a cut above the rest.

Saint Devote

19th March 2010, 00:45

Have you ever slated Schuey on here I wonder? :eek:

Of course his performances can be assessed and he is effectively only now going up against a collection of strong drivers not seen since before HE entered F1.

And his actions on several occasions have been serious misjudgments albeit not premeditated like Senna's.

But that is all past and it is not fair on him to load baggae from what was before.

He begins with a clean slate.

Saint Devote

19th March 2010, 01:10

Dear St. D.,

I don't really think people have such strong feelings about your driver. You keep banging your head to the walls because everyone hates your idol. What I've read here about him is really soft compared to the things people would say about MS, LH or FA. Aren't you getting too sensitive about this subject? I doubt people really care and if they rate LH higher is not because they hate JB. I for one can't stand LH, I would love to see JB destroying him but I don't think it's going to happen, it would more probably be the other way around.

Idol? :D Steady on there - not exactly! Oh you have no idea what REAL fans are like until you are acquainted with soccer fans - specifically those from Liverpool FC!!!

Myself and the rest of Jenson's Barmy Army are mild by comparison. Actually at all the races where JBA set-up, Button always gives them some time.

I don't especially see Lewis as someone to beat - I'd like Button to beat everyone.

F1boat

19th March 2010, 06:20

Idol? :D Steady on there - not exactly! Oh you have no idea what REAL fans are like until you are acquainted with soccer fans - specifically those from Liverpool FC!!!

Glory glory Man United ;)

Valve Bounce

19th March 2010, 08:09

Dear St. D.,

I don't really think people have such strong feelings about your driver. You keep banging your head to the walls because everyone hates your idol.

I have yet to encounter a single poster who hates Bunsen here. Some here ripped into him when he wasn't doing that well, but it was all harmless ribbing. I think most of the angst is directed towards a someone who keeps gloating, and gloating, and gloating about the guy. This is the natural reaction to he who gloats. So rather than say anyone hates Bunsen, I think the dislike is directed at the gloater via the innocent Bunsen.