Was it all worth it?

[ArrowsFA1]

Strong words on Ferrari's website (http://www.ferrari.com/English/News/Pages/100222_GR_Per_chi_suona_la_campana.aspx) as the new season approaches:

Of the thirteen teams who signed up, or were induced to sign up, for this year’s Championship, to date only eleven of them have heeded the call...This is the legacy of the holy war waged by the former FIA president. The cause in question was to allow smaller teams to get into Formula 1. This is the outcome: two teams will limp into the start of the championship, a third is being pushed into the ring by an invisible hand – you can be sure it is not the hand of Adam Smith – and, as for the fourth, well, you would do better to call on Missing Persons to locate it. In the meantime, we have lost two constructors along the way, in the shape of BMW and Toyota, while at Renault, there’s not much left other than the name. Was it all worth it?
Blimey :eek: :eek:

[I am evil Homer]

You know what I read "wah, wah, wah..." Ferrari need to get a grip.

[Dave B]

Not the first time they've published an emotional and irrational rant on their website. It's not exactly the behaviour one would expect from a professional team :s

"Two teams will limp into the start of the championship..."? What a bloody smack in the face for all the hard work and dedication shown by Virgin and Lotus. Show some bloody respect, Ferrari.

[BeansBeansBeans]

Not the first time they've published an emotional and irrational rant on their website. It's not exactly the behaviour one would expect from a professional team.

Quite refreshing isn't it?

[BDunnell]

Quite refreshing isn't it?

It would be if it wasn't couched in such absurdly pompous, over-emotional language.

It would be if it wasn't couched in such absurdly pompous, over-emotional language.

That's no way to describe the beautifully poetic Italian lingua!

[BeansBeansBeans]

absurdly pompous, over-emotional

This is Ferrari we're talking about.

I can only put this down to an emotional LdM, as yet again we have an embarrassing statement from such a great team. You would never see such unprofessional, badly written pieces of dribble being released from the likes of Williams, Red Bull or Mclaren. I could only imagine the backlash if another team took a dig at everyone in striking distance, and don't see why Ferrari should be judged any different here.

Quite alot of teams and fans feel let down by the FIA but please Ferrari, invest in a PR department.. Get a grip.. :eek:

For once, I agree.

Never would have happened under the previous Team Management.

The silver lining, of course, is that ultra professional management is now in charge of the whole sport.

[Hawkmoon]

It would be if it wasn't couched in such absurdly pompous, over-emotional language.

Whilst that's true, the point buried in there is valid. The process that the FIA undertook to pick the new teams was a shambles and Ferrari are right, for now at least, that the sport is poorer for the loss of BMW and Toyota because their replacements in USF1 and Campos are a bit of a sad joke.

Having said that, Max is gone, why not forget about it and move on?

[AndyL]

Badly written, henners? Come on, this is gold:


a third is being pushed into the ring by an invisible hand – you can be sure it is not the hand of Adam Smith

:)
I'm guessing it's a translation so you have to make an allowance for that.

I'm all for teams telling us what they think, whether justified or not.

[Saint Devote]

The sport is not poorer for the loss of Toyota or Honda - they were amongst the worst performers in the history of motor racing - the money they spent and the incompetence of the auto manufacturer ought to have led to INDICTMENTS!

The sport was far more poorer when Lotus and Brabham left - but they also fell down and they were lost to the sport. Lotus returning now in name, and with great nostalgia in so many ways - but whether it will ever be better than during its declining years IS a question.

And where was the "hand of Adam Smith" during the days of Schumacher that Ferrari had a secret technical veto?

I agree with dear old Luca that a third car ought to be allowed when chosen - how can we not wonder regardless, at both Monte Carlo and Spa this year without Kimi? Diabolical.

In fact I will go so far to say that in a good car, Kimi would drive rings around Massa - it is Massa that ought to have been replaced. Just to keep up with Kimi he is at maximum.

Sure Kimi is mercurial - he does not respond to rubbish cars - but when he has a good car he wins. Kimi is Kimi - easily misunderstood and that he is not in F1 in 2010 is a real pity. If there was ONE driver that ought to be.....

[Sonic]

My 4 year old could write a better press release than that - get a grip Ferrari! :D

[Hawkmoon]

The sport is not poorer for the loss of Toyota or Honda - they were amongst the worst performers in the history of motor racing - the money they spent and the incompetence of the auto manufacturer ought to have led to INDICTMENTS!

We wouldn't be talking about Toyota or Honda not being capable of producing a car and missing 4 races. The fact that they couldn't win the championship is irrelevant. Minardi spent 20 years propping up the grid and nobody considered them an indictment on the sport.

There is no way US F1 or Campos are better for F1 than Toyota, Honda or BMW. You knew the manufacturers would be on the grid come seasons start no matter what. Sure they left the sport but that's a seperate issue. Whilst they were there they were competing not taking up space and preventing other teams from competing. That's exactly what US F1 and Campos are doing and they're doing it because the Mosley-led selection process was a joke.

[I am evil Homer]

I'd take 'Lotus', Sauber and Manor over BMW or Toyota any day. BMW showed huge disregard for F1 in their time and basically threw their toys out of the pram when they couldn't develop a good car.

Toyota showed little to no understanding of F1 in terms of letting a team run itself without interference from a corporate entity. It was like Jaguar/Ford all over again and just look what's happened since that team was taken over by people who know racing.

Now Ferrari does have a point about the vetting procedures etc but it's more a bitterness of hopw the FIA sidelined FOTA throughout the team expansion.

[SGWilko]

But then again we still have more cars on the grid this season than we had in 2009 and 2008. Sure we've lost some big manufacturers but they were never in it for the love of the sport like Williams, Ferrari and Mclaren are. They were there for marketing purposes and nobody expected them to be in F1 for life. There will come a point when Mercedes will drop out and others will have their dip in the marketing pool. :)

Well, we really only lost Toyota, didn't we?

Honda lives on with Ross and Mercedes. BMW reverts back to its original incarnation of Peter Sauber.

Only Toyota (StafanGP?) is truly missing.

Renault is still there in team and name.

[Bagwan]

This mess reflects on everyone involved .

This mess is a mockery of the sport , and it's hard enough to get sponsors interested .

While I am no big fan of Luca and his tyrant style of management , I see his point clearly , and am grateful he said what he said .

SOMEONE HAD TO SAY SOMETHING !

Of course , he said it in a most abrasive way , and ruffled feathers , but he essentially said what many have been thinking .
That is , that it is a mess that needs sorting , now , rather than later .

Saying teams are "limping" , "pushed by an invisible hand" , and (not shown in quote above , but seen quoted elsewhere) "Serbian vultures" , will do no more than rile the opponents and get lines of press .
They are all just used to emphasize the idea of the "holy war" he describes .

And , they shouldn't take it too hard , as they , like all who have read Luca quotes , should know he spits when he speaks .

[BDunnell]

That's no way to describe the beautifully poetic Italian lingua!

You do have a point. An Italian-speaking friend described translating Italian into English as being like 'putting sand in a sieve' - once you get rid of all the rhetorical flourishes that work in Italian but not in English, you are left with virtually nothing.

[Helicon_One]

Oh no, someone has a negative opinion about something! Call the thought police!

Formula One has become more entertaining for the off-track soap opera than racing in recent years anyway, we may as well sit back and enjoy seeing Ferrari getting hot under the collar and slagging off the rest of the field.

[driveace]

What is wrong with LdM,does he not welcome these new teams with open arms,as everyone has to start somewhere.Yes they may struggle at first,but they have only limited experience,at the start of the season.But its a learning thing and probably by the middle of the season they will be middle field runners .Not all the footballers who play in the UK football leagues'are all top grade players,but are we saying they should not be allowed to play,or not appear on TV.

[F1boat]

It's a lovely article, or at least would have been if it was written in a blog. As a PR statement it is very rude...

[wedge]

This is the legacy of the holy war waged by the former FIA president.

Fatwa on Max Mosely!

Damn the infidels!

ROFLMAO!!!!!

[Dave B]

Fatwa on Max Mosely!


Why drag Juan Pablo Montoya into this? :confused:




Oh sorry, thought you said "fatwad".... :p

[Alfa Fan]

Right so everyone complains when all the drivers and teams are boring and make PC statements all the time, and there's a cry for a return to the "outspoken" days of the 60s and 70s, but then look at the response here when someone does! It seems people only want outspoken opinions on things that they agree with!

[BDunnell]

Right so everyone complains when all the drivers and teams are boring and make PC statements all the time, and there's a cry for a return to the "outspoken" days of the 60s and 70s, but then look at the response here when someone does! It seems people only want outspoken opinions on things that they agree with!

There are ways of doing it, though. It's why, for instance, I find Eddie Irvine being outspoken really tiresome and boorish, and John Watson being outspoken interesting and worthwhile.

[SGWilko]

Who says nobody here agree's with Luca entirely? Its the way in which its worded and put into the public domain through an official source. I would be equally dissappointed if Mclaren were to spout personal opinions through their website, its just not professional IMO. This is the type of article I would expect to read from a journalist on his blog rather than the head of Ferrari.

I would expect most of the tifosi are in the face palm position in the moments after reading this, but what done is done. Its a political swipe at the FIA and I for one would like to see an F1 season dominated by the events ontrack rather than political squabbles and team members trying to get into the headlines.. :)

Indeed. I think many agree with the sentiment, just disagree with the kindergarten style press release.

The only issue I have with the sentiment is that about Lotus & Virgin. I think they have given a very good account of themselves thus far.

[christophulus]

The FIA screwed the new teams really, deciding on a budget cap and then going back on that plan. Fortunately it looks like three teams might make it although they've required substantial investment.

It's quite petty from Ferrari, they're just trying to further their agenda for three car teams and unlimited testing, which is something only they and possibly McLaren can reasonably afford to do. I can't see anyone else, even Mercedes/Red Bull, chucking a ton of money away to get back to the way F1 used to be, not in the current financial climate anyway. And pretty much everyone else has a private backer who isn't going to pour billions into a project anymore, not after the failures of Toyota and (arguably) Honda.

Besides, the Ferrari is looking like one of the best cars this year so I don't know why they (and also Alonso) are already stirring things up.

[SGWilko]

The FIA screwed the new teams really, deciding on a budget cap and then going back on that plan. Fortunately it looks like three teams might make it although they've required substantial investment.

It's quite petty from Ferrari, they're just trying to further their agenda for three car teams and unlimited testing, which is something only they and possibly McLaren can reasonably afford to do. I can't see anyone else, even Mercedes/Red Bull, chucking a ton of money away to get back to the way F1 used to be, not in the current financial climate anyway. And pretty much everyone else has a private backer who isn't going to pour billions into a project anymore, not after the failures of Toyota and (arguably) Honda.

Besides, the Ferrari is looking like one of the best cars this year so I don't know why they (and also Alonso) are already stirring things up.

Now that MS has fled the nest, do Ferrari have a requirement for a third car?

[gloomyDAY]

:eek: That was awesome!

Ferrari said what I was thinking, but in a crass manner. Excellent!

[christophulus]

Now that MS has fled the nest, do Ferrari have a requirement for a third car?

They were still banging on about it last week.

http://www.ferrari.com/English/News/Pages/10021801_COR_special_day_history_Ferrari.aspx

The original article is just funny. If it was on a blog, fine, but Ferrari are hardly doing themselves any favours by belittling the new teams (which may be potential customers after all..).

[UltimateDanGTR]

This is Ferrari we're talking about.

the flamboyant italians for you... :D

There is an element of truth in what they are saying though, but for a professional racing team that isn't exactly the most dignified way to put it..

[DazzlaF1]

That pathetic excuse for a statement just reminds me of when people were saying that F1 is in a way "a closed shop" well looking back at that, doesnt it seem that this trucking tanker LdM is a staunch advocate of such a thing just so he can field three cars?

On what grounds does he have to try and belittle the monumental efforts made by both Virgin and Lotus to not only set up a team but get cars built and running? Both of those newbies have every right to be peeved at this, it would make them seem that they are not welcome in F1 by this elitist nutjob.

[Bagwan]

the flamboyant italians for you... :D

There is an element of truth in what they are saying though, but for a professional racing team that isn't exactly the most dignified way to put it..

Argh .

Who wants "dignified" responses ?
I want to hear them call a spade a spade .

I think F1 could use a little "trash talk" to counter the "corporate speak" responses we are used to hearing .


This is no different to Enzo riding the "garagistas" , back in the day .

Go Luca .

[Nikki Katz]

While I am in no way a supporter of Max, what exactly was he supposed to do? Of course the situation with the new teams isn't ideal, but if Max hadn't stuck his oar in then there's a reasonable chance we'd only have 12-16 cars this year. Maybe Ferrari want to win at all costs, even if that means being the only manufacturer in the sport.

[Bagwan]

While I am in no way a supporter of Max, what exactly was he supposed to do? Of course the situation with the new teams isn't ideal, but if Max hadn't stuck his oar in then there's a reasonable chance we'd only have 12-16 cars this year. Maybe Ferrari want to win at all costs, even if that means being the only manufacturer in the sport.

Maybe he could have initiated a proper vetting process to ensure teams might have a chance at reaching the grid .
Stefanovic applied , but without Cosworth , was rejected .

He's still pleading for a spot while 2 "vetted" teams flounder .

[Somebody]

Re: "limping"

At Jerez, Virgin and Lotus were 3.5 & 4.6s (respectively) off the front, and 1.5 & 2.6s (respectively) off the next-worst team (Toro Rosso). Their stallions look a tad lame to me.

[Mia 01]

This outing from LdM is another dig at Max, and he is also stating that he was, and always will be right. Ofcourse this is false, but he has some points this time.

Exept for Lotus and Virgin.

[SGWilko]

Maybe he could have initiated a proper vetting process to ensure teams might have a chance at reaching the grid .
Stefanovic applied , but without Cosworth , was rejected .

Bingo.

[Claus Hansen]

Why should F1 be limited to 10 teams ? Whats next, you dont move in or out of the premier leaque in the UK. Its all about money, moore teams, less to share. Ferrari has built their shares of crap and slow cars over the years, had their shares of funny moments, on and of the track... What on earth are the taking about, F1 is so expensive, mostly due to teams like ferrari, that 2 out 4 teams are ready is a miracle in todays tough economics. Hats of Virgin and Lotus, and ferrari, shut up, and let your car due the taking !

[N. Jones]

Hmm... I do not see anything wrong with the statement. F1 would be better off with BMW and Toyota around. At least the have the funds to put a team together.

Yes, Toyota was spinning it's wheels. But at least they were a full team.
BMW, IMHO, left much too soon. They should have toughed it out a little longer.

Finally, teams would have more engines to choose from. I don't think the BMW engine was that bad...

[Bagwan]

Bingo.

Who you callin' Bingo ?

I could have you banned for that !


Let's stick to more "corporate" , nicer forum speak from now on , please .







Hee hee .

[BDunnell]

Hmm... I do not see anything wrong with the statement. F1 would be better off with BMW and Toyota around. At least the have the funds to put a team together.

As does Lotus, and as does Virgin. As a result, direct replacements for BMW and Toyota were forthcoming immediately, and surely the entries of such 'new' teams are to be applauded? The list of teams involved in F1 can't just remain entirely static.

[Sonic]

The list of teams involved in F1 can't just remain entirely static.

Fact. BMW and Totota are just the latest in a long list of Formula 1 teams. Some better and some worse, the only constant is change.

[foxystoat]

What people & Ferarri are forgetting is that Toyota/BMW/Honda all chose to leave, they weren't driven out. We should be thankful that there are smaller private independants willing to come in or we would have 14 cars or 3 ferarris/mclarens to make the grid up.
Be grateful for Lotus & Virgin not slate them for being off the pace at such an early phase of there existance in F1 they will get better. Minardi's & Arrows were over 5 secs off the pace not that long ago & asking for the 107% rule to be waivered at some races so they could make it in. I see no evidence that Lotus or Virgin would be that far off the pace.

[N. Jones]

As does Lotus, and as does Virgin. As a result, direct replacements for BMW and Toyota were forthcoming immediately, and surely the entries of such 'new' teams are to be applauded? The list of teams involved in F1 can't just remain entirely static.

Of course! Lotus and Virgin can definitely stay. I would have at least liked to have seen BMW stick it out for a few more years.

[BDunnell]

Fact. BMW and Totota are just the latest in a long list of Formula 1 teams. Some better and some worse, the only constant is change.

And 'twas ever thus.

[DazzlaF1]

Great article which shows F1 could end up like the DTM if LdM had his own way

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/08/12/why-three-car-teams-isnt-a-great-idea/

[Saint Devote]

We wouldn't be talking about Toyota or Honda not being capable of producing a car and missing 4 races. The fact that they couldn't win the championship is irrelevant. Minardi spent 20 years propping up the grid and nobody considered them an indictment on the sport.

There is no way US F1 or Campos are better for F1 than Toyota, Honda or BMW. You knew the manufacturers would be on the grid come seasons start no matter what. Sure they left the sport but that's a seperate issue. Whilst they were there they were competing not taking up space and preventing other teams from competing. That's exactly what US F1 and Campos are doing and they're doing it because the Mosley-led selection process was a joke.

You think that Honda and Toyota being compared to Minardi is valid? :eek:

Minardi's budget equalled its performances and it contributed far more to F1 than Honda or Toyota by way of signing new up and coming drivers into F1 - such as Webber and Alonso.

The manufacturers have always come and gone - good racing teams whose business it is stay around for a long time and can achieve.

I am not for any ONE team - I just prefer an F1 that is ruled by racing teams noy incompetent auto manufacturers.

Yes - I prefer Sauber to BMW and Virgin to Honda.

[K-Pu]

I think LDM should shut the f*ck up when speaking about new teams. Does he think F1 is Ferrari? Haven´t we overcome that? Now that we are saying things as they are, we could also speak A LOT about Ferrari. And what about being waaay off the pace? Or mysterious powers who control the sport from behind? Remember Ferrari International Assistance? The FIA-FOTA war and the secret agreements that were uncovered?

Things should be said as they are, and I don´t care (as far as I´m concerned) about corporate talk. It is only a way of lying without lying too much... Think something and say it, and then defend it if you can. Now if you try to hit hard, be ready to receive some instructive feedback, and please, leave aside all that crap of public apologises and so on...

Maybe this is something peple think, and I have nothing against them saying it as they think it. The problem is they´re not right, or at least I don´t think so. There have to be new teams, and it´s always difficult to get things started, but Ferrari seems like the Lethe river, where people forget quite quickly after tasting its water (Alonso is the last example), or a political party with a high rate of selective memory.

I wish F1 could get rid of corporate talk and politically correct statements, but this seems as unreachable as transparency in F1...

[call_me_andrew]

It seems people only want outspoken opinions on things that they agree with!

Is that too much to ask?


You do have a point. An Italian-speaking friend described translating Italian into English as being like 'putting sand in a sieve' - once you get rid of all the rhetorical flourishes that work in Italian but not in English, you are left with virtually nothing.

You have not experienced Shakespeare until you have read him in the original Klingon.

[Hondo]

This season, when the time is right, Ferrari will be rocked to the core by the exposure of their biggest scandal ever.

[foxystoat]

This season, when the time is right, Ferrari will be rocked to the core by the exposure of their biggest scandal ever.

Any prostitutes in Nazi uniforms involved ?

[Hondo]

Not a one.
Kimi is away from F1 and Ferrari for at least a year, by choice. Suspects, may know. Largely responsible for downturn in Kimi's attitude.
Todt is with the FIA for 1 term, and away from Ferrari. No involvement anyway.
Brawn away from Ferrari. No involvement anyway.
Schmacher away from Ferrari. No involvement anyway.
Most of involved players still at Ferrari.
Flav totally on the outside and pissed, knows or knows some of it. Can't be hurt now.
Alonso hoping his ex-boss doesn't blow the whole thing open.
Bernie will say he suspected it all along and go back to web spinning.

[SGWilko]

This season, when the time is right, Ferrari will be rocked to the core by the exposure of their biggest scandal ever.

What, that they all wear their keks inside out?

[pino]

IMHO...LdM is telling the truth, the only problem is that he should've put in a better way, using a bit of diplomacy or british humour ;)

[SGWilko]

IMHO...LdM is telling the truth, the only problem is that he should've put in a better way, using a bit of diplomacy or british humour ;)

That's the general consensus on here.

Hmmm, Pino - you and British (note the use of a capital B) humour are not, IMHO, compatible, due to a lack of comprehension on the complexities of said humour.

[pino]

That's the general consensus on here.

Hmmm, Pino - you and British (note the use of a capital B) humour are not, IMHO, compatible, due to a lack of comprehension on the complexities of said humour.

Once for all...I've got plenty of humour, and those who personaly knows me (among them many british forumers from this board) can confirm that, and I am not talking about italian humour ;)

[SGWilko]

Once for all...I've got plenty of humour, and those who personaly knows me (among them many british forumers from this board) can confirm that, and I am not talking about italian humour ;)

British, Italian. You really must capitalise when using place names, countries, nationalities etc. ;)

[V12]

Ferrari weren't exactly a major manufacturer when they started out in the late 40's. Yes they built their own engines but that was pretty much the way it was done until Climax and then Cosworth came along. Enzo only built road cars to fund his racing team.

As for the whole "lost in translation" sensationalism of the translated press release, no big deal, reminds me of when a (British) manager of Real Madrid confused the Spanish press with his "pigs flying" statement. Different languages all have their own turns of phrase that look silly when directly translated into another.

Ferrari are still wrong though, no matter how it is put into words.

[truefan72]

It would be if it wasn't couched in such absurdly pompous, over-emotional language.

:up:

[truefan72]

I can only put this down to an emotional LdM, as yet again we have an embarrassing statement from such a great team. You would never see such unprofessional, badly written pieces of dribble being released from the likes of Williams, Red Bull or Mclaren. I could only imagine the backlash if another team took a dig at everyone in striking distance, and don't see why Ferrari should be judged any different here.

Quite alot of teams and fans feel let down by the FIA but please Ferrari, invest in a PR department.. Get a grip.. :eek:

:up: :up:

[truefan72]

While I am in no way a supporter of Max, what exactly was he supposed to do? Of course the situation with the new teams isn't ideal, but if Max hadn't stuck his oar in then there's a reasonable chance we'd only have 12-16 cars this year. Maybe Ferrari want to win at all costs, even if that means being the only manufacturer in the sport.

I will have to respectfully disagree with you. Max may have done a few good things for f1 but overall he has been terrible for the sport. Not to mention running a a shadowy organization that was heavily biased to one team and making a mockery fo the entry system by sanctioning teams that cave to his blackmail demands. Using the office as a weapon to get back at personal grievances, changing the requirements year to year, shifting regs and rules too often, handing Veto power to one team, instituting an unbalanced concord agreements, Embarrassing himself and his sport with his sexcapades and refusing to resign, in fact, changing rules to stay on as president well beyond the term limits, etc, etc, shall i go on?

[F1boat]

I don't think that he was so biased in favor of one team, but he really disliked one team, I have to say. Not without a reason, I might add ;)
But yes, he was far from ideal and it is good that now more competent man is president.

[ArrowsFA1]

Ferrari are obviously very critical of Max, but I don't see what publishing this kind of stuff on their own website will achieve. Maybe they're just trying to be deliberately controversial now that MM has gone. It's the kind of stuff that would have brought a cry of "bringing the sport into disrepute" from FIA HQ not so very long ago but, fortunately, things appear to be changing.

[F1boat]

Max, however, owned them...
"According to James Allen on F1, Mosley 'found the whole thing quite amusing but hinted that the team had opened a can of worms here and that he had not planned to say anything rude about them before now, but that they have fired the first shot with this attack. He described Ferrari as a middle-aged woman who is jealous of the attention new beautiful women around her are getting!"
http://planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5978719,00.html
ROFL!

[gloomyDAY]

^^^ :laugh:

Seriously, when I first read the Ferrari memo, it was like a chick on PMS.
Maybe the Ferrari heads can do with a little Midol.

[ArrowsFA1]

Max, however, owned them...
All a bit childish really. What Max is saying is "they started it". Playground stuff.

[markabilly]

We wouldn't be talking about Toyota or Honda not being capable of producing a car and missing 4 races. The fact that they couldn't win the championship is irrelevant. Minardi spent 20 years propping up the grid and nobody considered them an indictment on the sport.

There is no way US F1 or Campos are better for F1 than Toyota, Honda or BMW. You knew the manufacturers would be on the grid come seasons start no matter what. Sure they left the sport but that's a seperate issue. Whilst they were there they were competing not taking up space and preventing other teams from competing. That's exactly what US F1 and Campos are doing and they're doing it because the Mosley-led selection process was a joke.
That is the PROBLEM. "selection process"

Teams should be free to compete and come and go as best they can without some selection process being involved or paying the outrageous fees (and who knows how much in under the table bribes to officials)

oddly enough that is the way it works in nascar and irl, and the way it used to be in F1, when F1 was a sport, and not a show for TV, now it is becoming sort of the same as pro werstling

Besides how many starts did BMW, Honda and Toyota have? And how many victories? I think BMW and Honda each won one race. Toyota had zero.

[Dave B]

Ironically the selection process worked better when you had to stump up a hefty deposit - it proved beyond any doubt that you had financial clout (if nothing else) and could at least assemble a team and some cars.

F1 is bloody expensive, even with all the proposed budget cuts. Anybody wishing to start a team needs to understand that basic truth before they waste everybodys time. This is no place for dreamers with big ambition, even bigger egos, but empty pockets.

If new teams want in, they have to demonstrate a basic level of financial stablity first. That was the idea of the new selection process, but as we know now that was flawed.

[markabilly]

Ironically the selection process worked better when you had to stump up a hefty deposit - it proved beyond any doubt that you had financial clout (if nothing else) and could at least assemble a team and some cars.

F1 is bloody expensive, even with all the proposed budget cuts. Anybody wishing to start a team needs to understand that basic truth before they waste everybodys time. This is no place for dreamers with big ambition, even bigger egos, but empty pockets.

If new teams want in, they have to demonstrate a basic level of financial stablity first. That was the idea of the new selection process, but as we know now that was flawed.
do away with the process completely.

the only process should be qualifying, not selection....it smells of antitrust anyway. (u know antitrust issues are anticompetitive, and F! is suppose to be the pinnacle of COMPETITION)

let the dreamers show up and then when qualifying is done, we will know how big their ambition and pockets really are....but stehan gp is appearently excluded due to grid spots being limited by contract....while usa gp gets in.

ridculous

[V12]

That is the PROBLEM. "selection process"

Teams should be free to compete and come and go as best they can without some selection process being involved or paying the outrageous fees (and who knows how much in under the table bribes to officials)

oddly enough that is the way it works in nascar and irl, and the way it used to be in F1, when F1 was a sport, and not a show for TV, now it is becoming sort of the same as pro werstling

Besides how many starts did BMW, Honda and Toyota have? And how many victories? I think BMW and Honda each won one race. Toyota had zero.

Indeed - I don't have much time for NASCAR but one thing they DO get right is the fact that anyone can show up for a race with a legal car (and I assume whatever their equivalent of an F1 super licence for the driver is), and try and make the field. If they are rubbish then they won't make it, and no harm done. If they do make the field, then at worst they make a good underdog, at best...well from little acorns and all that.

Modern F1 is too much like the various US ball sports and Rugby League with it's franchising concept. I much prefer the idea of being able to enter and attempt to qualify on your own sporting merits, or its equivalent in team league-based sports, promotion and relegation (like in most world football leagues for instance)

[ArrowsFA1]

let the dreamers show up and then when qualifying is done, we will know how big their ambition and pockets really are....but stehan gp is appearently excluded due to grid spots being limited by contract....while usa gp gets in.
One thing apparently limiting the number of teams is space for them at the circuits. There are only so many garages, and space in the paddock :rolleyes:

It seems that team numbers have been reduced by design in recent years. Obviously fewer teams adds value to those remaining, but I'm not sure it adds value to the sport to have so few teams.

Looking back to 1991 there were 18 teams, and 34 cars, entered for the first GP in Phoenix, a temporary street circuit, with 26 cars actually qualifying to race. The numbers were the same at Monaco and they all managed to fit in. Admittedly, in Phoenix, the first of those who failed to pre-qualify was almost 10secs off Senna's pole time, but a few races later that same driver finished 4th in Canada.

[V12]

Obviously fewer teams adds value to those remaining, but I'm not sure it adds value to the sport to have so few teams.

Bingo.

The idea that a team should have any "value" just from holding an entry spot is absurd. It's franchising basically. The only value a team should have is its actual assets (factory, facilities, staff, cars, equipment etc.)

[call_me_andrew]

Indeed - I don't have much time for NASCAR but one thing they DO get right is the fact that anyone can show up for a race with a legal car (and I assume whatever their equivalent of an F1 super licence for the driver is), and try and make the field. If they are rubbish then they won't make it, and no harm done. If they do make the field, then at worst they make a good underdog, at best...well from little acorns and all that.

Modern F1 is too much like the various US ball sports and Rugby League with it's franchising concept. I much prefer the idea of being able to enter and attempt to qualify on your own sporting merits, or its equivalent in team league-based sports, promotion and relegation (like in most world football leagues for instance)

If F1 were to adopt an open garage policy, it would probably follow NASCAR's example and grant X number of teams a starting position based on constructor's points.

Franchising works great when you determine the champion with a month-long playoff. But that doesn't really translate well to motorsports.

[speeddurango]

I won't comment on the part concerning Max since I wasn't able to follow how this affair was unfolded along the way, but other than that it was that the truth be told in a harsh way.

[Valve Bounce]

Strong words on Ferrari's website (http://www.ferrari.com/English/News/Pages/100222_GR_Per_chi_suona_la_campana.aspx) as the new season approaches:

Blimey :eek: :eek:

The truth hurts, but at the end of the day, "tell me something new". I am 100% behind Ferrari on this assessment. I just wonder who will stand up and tell me otherwise.

[Daniel]

No McLaren zealot that's for sure