Gordon Brown

[driveace]

OH So sounds like Gordon is a bully!!!
Or is it not true?
After all these years of Labour,and all this debt we have, can Gordon really turn it round??

[Langdale Forest]

There is always a possibility of everything. :)


Political correctness, when will it all stop?

[Hondo]

Why does Labour elect those people that are just the kind they don't like? What labour has Gordon Brown ever done? Why doesn't labour elect their own? How many coal miners, factory workers, sales clerks, carpenters, painters, plumbers, and electricians have been elected?

[Eki]

I must say I don't know much about Brown, Jordan Brow.

[BDunnell]

Political correctness, when will it all stop?

What does bullying have to do with 'political correctness'? Bullying, whether in school or workplace, is unacceptable. It's not hard to behave decently towards one's fellow man.

As for Gordon Brown, I'm afraid I can well believe the accusations. We know he is a man with a personality that can best be described as 'complex'. I suspect it goes rather further than that.

[Hondo]

What does bullying have to do with 'political correctness'? Bullying, whether in school or workplace, is unacceptable. It's not hard to behave decently towards one's fellow man.

As for Gordon Brown, I'm afraid I can well believe the accusations. We know he is a man with a personality that can best be described as 'complex'. I suspect it goes rather further than that.

You think he has a Piper Cherokee hidden somewhere?

[BeansBeansBeans]

I wonder if he ever called Jacqui Smith an omni-shambles.

[Lousada]

What does bullying have to do with 'political correctness'? Bullying, whether in school or workplace, is unacceptable. It's not hard to behave decently towards one's fellow man.

As for Gordon Brown, I'm afraid I can well believe the accusations. We know he is a man with a personality that can best be described as 'complex'. I suspect it goes rather further than that.

I believe every politician is somewhat of a bully. Just like dentists. They are people who like to have power over others.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Gordon Brown? Well if I get a feel for the British electorate based on what I have read online, I think he has a 50-50 shot at hanging around. That doofus the Conservatives have leading them isn't very right of center AT all.....and if you hope to win an election, you have to provide a face and change to contrast with the existing crew, and the last time I looked, the Labour party of Gordon Brown in the aftermath of Tony Blair, has been sitting on the political center to RIGHT; which the last time I looked is where the Conservatives were.

[BDunnell]

I believe every politician is somewhat of a bully. Just like dentists. They are people who like to have power over others.

Having worked for a politician, I can tell you that this statement is, quite simply, crap. Sorry.

[BeansBeansBeans]

Having worked for a politician, I can tell you that this statement is, quite simply, crap. Sorry.

I don't know, he might have a point about dentists.

[Mark]

I could well imagine that Tony Blair didn't need to bully anyone. You can just imagine the scene, someone upsets him and just gives a nod to a secret door in the corner, out of which emerge 'operatives' and that person is never seen again... :D

Seriously, it's looking very bad for Labour. Although this bullying charity didn't do itself any favours by breaching confidentiality.

[Dave B]

The charity's chairwoman is called Pratt, which seems appropriate. It does smell a bit fishy, what with this charity having links to the Conservatives. It was inexcusable to breach confidentiality, though, if that is indeed true.




A patron of an anti-bullying charity has resigned, saying its founder breached confidentiality by claiming Downing Street staff used its helpline.
Prof Cary Cooper, an expert on workplace stress, said on Monday he had quit the National Bullying Helpline.

Its head, Christine Pratt, had told the BBC of its dealings with No 10 staff after Business Secretary Lord Mandelson denied Gordon Brown bullied people.

It was "wholly inappropriate" to name No 10 in this way, Prof Cooper said.

Full story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8527881.stm

[Dave B]

Pratt's now clarified that Brown himself wasn't named in any of the calls her charity received.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_8527000/8527787.stm

I'm torn. Bullying is wrong, plain and simple. But I also think that people reach for the word far to easily in situations when they're simply being berated for doing a poor job (it's similar to "depression" in that the word gets misappropriated when people are a bit unhappy or upset: in both cases it detracts from the plight of those who genuinely suffer from bullying or depression).

I've got a feeling that, like the botched letters to bereaved families, this may backfire on Brown's attackers and actually help him gain sympathy in the long run.

[Daniel]

Pratt's now clarified that Brown himself wasn't named in any of the calls her charity received.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_8527000/8527787.stm

I'm torn. Bullying is wrong, plain and simple. But I also think that people reach for the word far to easily in situations when they're simply being berated for doing a poor job (it's similar to "depression" in that the word gets misappropriated when people are a bit unhappy or upset: in both cases it detracts from the plight of those who genuinely suffer from bullying or depression).

I've got a feeling that, like the botched letters to bereaved families, this may backfire on Brown's attackers and actually help him gain sympathy in the long run.
Couldn't agree more Dave,

[Eki]

Having worked for a politician,
Too much information. Now I have this mental image of BDunnel:

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pIXH3-A8zMI/0.jpg

[Daniel]

Too much information. Now I have this mental image of BDunnel:

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pIXH3-A8zMI/0.jpg
Nah, perhaps Ben = Bernard? :p

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_k9YRGIDlJZw/Sq4rR1xfKwI/AAAAAAAABcw/CUUr4Nj4Q7Y/s400/hqdefault.jpg

[wedge]

I could well imagine that Tony Blair didn't need to bully anyone. You can just imagine the scene, someone upsets him and just gives a nod to a secret door in the corner, out of which emerge 'operatives' and that person is never seen again... :D

Blair sent them to Alistair Campbell's office.


I've got a feeling that, like the botched letters to bereaved families, this may backfire on Brown's attackers and actually help him gain sympathy in the long run.

Daily Mail surprisingly backed Brown


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1252789/DAILY-MAIL-COMMENT-Leaders-wimps.html

This paper has frequently criticised Gordon Brown for many things - for his obsessive belief that the state can solve all our problems, for presiding over a reckless orgy of public spending and for allowing the greatest influx of immigration in this island's history without any debate.

But amid the mounting hysteria over the Prime Minister's alleged bullying and temper tantrums we would ask if the chattering classes and the BBC have lost their sense of perspective.

Is there any head of a vast corporation faced with the kind of problems Mr Brown has to deal with who couldn't be accused of occasionally losing his temper and shouting at subordinates?

Of course no-one condones bullying. But Mr Brown is running a country facing awesome problems, not running a youth club.

Nor should it be forgotten that the Observer, the newspaper that broke the story, has an expensive relaunch to promote, while its journalist Andrew Rawnsley, who made the allegations, has a book to sell.

As for reports that several members of No 10 staff complained to a bullying hotline, ye Gods, what kind of wimps work at No 10 these days.

[Daniel]

Blair sent them to Alistair Campbell's office.



Daily Mail surprisingly backed Brown
I'm ashamed to admit it but I agree with the Daily Moan

[BeansBeansBeans]

Nah, perhaps Ben = Bernard?

Nope.

Ben's a duck-island installation manager.

[BDunnell]

I'm ashamed to admit it but I agree with the Daily Moan

There are certain bits of their attitude that are unfounded, though, like the bit about Andrew Rawnsley 'having a book to sell'. This has been trotted out time and again as the story has developed. It doesn't in itself mean the allegations are untrue, or even that they are fishy. Rawnsley is an excellent journalist, and it is quite right that he should withhold his sources, just as it's quite wrong for the head of the bullying helpline - who came across very badly on Radio 4 this morning - to have gone public in this way. Had I been one of the complainants I would be decidedly pissed off.

Also, the comment 'ye Gods, what kind of wimps work at No 10 these days' is an appalling way in which to treat serious allegations - just the sort of serious allegations that have, on occasion, been levelled against those who work for the Mail including its editor Paul Dacre, who is a foul-mouthed bully of the first order, by all accounts.

[BDunnell]

Nope.

Ben's a duck-island installation manager.

And you should see the gold-plated chair with a cushion filled with the Queen's body hair that I claimed on expenses.

[Daniel]

And you should see the gold-plated chair with a cushion filled with the Queen's body hair that I claimed on expenses.
I thought the Queen had a Brazilian? I read it in the Sun.

[wedge]

Also, the comment 'ye Gods, what kind of wimps work at No 10 these days' is an appalling way in which to treat serious allegations - just the sort of serious allegations that have, on occasion, been levelled against those who work for the Mail including its editor Paul Dacre, who is a foul-mouthed bully of the first order, by all accounts.

I take it you're not a fan of 'The Thick Of It'


On a separate note I wonder if the likes of (former Lotus team manager) Peter Warr or Patrick Head would be regarded as bullies?

[Daniel]

There are certain bits of their attitude that are unfounded, though, like the bit about Andrew Rawnsley 'having a book to sell'. This has been trotted out time and again as the story has developed. It doesn't in itself mean the allegations are untrue, or even that they are fishy. Rawnsley is an excellent journalist, and it is quite right that he should withhold his sources, just as it's quite wrong for the head of the bullying helpline - who came across very badly on Radio 4 this morning - to have gone public in this way. Had I been one of the complainants I would be decidedly pissed off.

Also, the comment 'ye Gods, what kind of wimps work at No 10 these days' is an appalling way in which to treat serious allegations - just the sort of serious allegations that have, on occasion, been levelled against those who work for the Mail including its editor Paul Dacre, who is a foul-mouthed bully of the first order, by all accounts.

But it certainly does put into question the motives of those slinging the mud @ Gordon and IMHO that's a fair thing to do.

IMHO if you're working in number 10 you're going to have to have a thick skin so their comments aren't far from the mark. What did these people think they were signing up for? The graveyard shift at McDonalds?

[BeansBeansBeans]

IMHO if you're working in number 10 you're going to have to have a thick skin so their comments aren't far from the mark. What did these people think they were signing up for? The graveyard shift at McDonalds?

This is rather bold pronouncment, give that nobody on this thread has any idea of the extent of the bullying that is alleged to have taken place.

What level of bullying would you consider fair game?

[BDunnell]

I thought the Queen had a Brazilian? I read it in the Sun.

No, you're thinking of Peter Mandelson.

[Daniel]

This is rather bold pronouncment, give that nobody on this thread has any idea of the extent of the bullying that is alleged to have taken place.

What level of bullying would you consider fair game?
It's a fair point though.

In a high pressure environment there is always going to be animosity and I've been on the receiving end of shouting and so on and so forth and tbh you realise that it's been said in the heat of the moment and you deal with it.

[Daniel]

No, you're thinking of Peter Mandelson.
Back, crack AND sack?









Oh I see what you mean. Never even knew that Mandelson was a "fruit" :p

[BDunnell]

I take it you're not a fan of 'The Thick Of It'

On the contrary, I like it very much, although I find Alastair Campbell so unpleasant that a comic depiction of him, no matter how well-written or performed, will never endear itself much.

[BeansBeansBeans]

It's a fair point though.

In a high pressure environment there is always going to be animosity and I've been on the receiving end of shouting and so on and so forth and tbh you realise that it's been said in the heat of the moment and you deal with it.

You're dodging my question.

You've come out in support of comments in the Daily Mail which suggest that anyone calling a bullying helpline is some sort of coward. So I'm asking you, what level of bullying should be tolerated? Occasional shouting? Sustained verbal abuse? Physical violence? Sexual assault? I'm genuinely keen to know.

[BDunnell]

It's a fair point though.

In a high pressure environment there is always going to be animosity and I've been on the receiving end of shouting and so on and so forth and tbh you realise that it's been said in the heat of the moment and you deal with it.

Most of the time, it's entirely unnecessary. A good boss should never resort to shouting. There are other ways that might be less 'tough', and thus are frowned upon by those who are easily impressed by individuals who behave in such a manner, but which are far more effective, surely.

[Daniel]

You're dodging my question.

You've come out in support of comments in the Daily Mail which suggest that anyone calling a bullying helpline is some sort of coward. So I'm asking you, what level of bullying should be tolerated? Occasional shouting? Sustained verbal abuse? Physical violence? Sexual assault? I'm genuinely keen to know.
I don't mind being sexually assaulted, as long as she's good looking :)

I know what you mean though and tbh it depends on the individual circumstance

[Daniel]

Most of the time, it's entirely unnecessary. A good boss should never resort to shouting. There are other ways that might be less 'tough', and thus are frowned upon by those who are easily impressed by individuals who behave in such a manner, but which are far more effective, surely.
Some people deal with stress differently though. I myself have never felt the need to shout at someone while working though.

[Dave B]

You're dodging my question.

You've come out in support of comments in the Daily Mail which suggest that anyone calling a bullying helpline is some sort of coward. So I'm asking you, what level of bullying should be tolerated? Occasional shouting? Sustained verbal abuse? Physical violence? Sexual assault? I'm genuinely keen to know.
Let me turn the question around. Sir Alex Furguson is know for his "hairdryer" half-time talks, where he will scream and shout directly into the faces of his players if he feels they are underperforming. In this Sun interview (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/article69872.ece), he admits that "although I have a quick temper, I get over it quickly too."

Clearly his players expect that as part of the deal of working at the highest level in the sport. They're expected to give their best, and expect to be verbally abused if they don't. How is that different to MPs, civil servants and staff being expected to perform at the top of their game in a central government office?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending bullying. All I'm saying is that the word gets misappropriated to describe all manner of behaviour, some of which might be reasonably expected to come with the job.

On a tangent, it appears that Christine Pratt's charity may exist more for the benefit of her husband's business than for it's callers, if this (http://thebullyinghelpline.blogspot.com/2009/08/why-not-to-ask-for-independent.html) is to be believed. There's a suggestion that she refers callers to HR & Diversity Management Limited who charge a fee for advice which you could get for free from Citizens' Advice or Google.

Maybe she hoped for some free publicity from this episode; if so she seems to have scored a spectacular own goal.

[Daniel]

Let me turn the question around. Sir Alex Furguson is know for his "hairdryer" half-time talks, where he will scream and shout directly into the faces of his players if he feels they are underperforming. In this Sun interview (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/article69872.ece), he admits that "although I have a quick temper, I get over it quickly too."

Clearly his players expect that as part of the deal of working at the highest level in the sport. They're expected to give their best, and expect to be verbally abused if they don't. How is that different to MPs, civil servants and staff being expected to perform at the top of their game in a central government office?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending bullying. All I'm saying is that the word gets misappropriated to describe all manner of behaviour, some of which might be reasonably expected to come with the job.

On a tangent, it appears that Christine Pratt's charity may exist more for the benefit of her husband's business than for it's callers, if this (http://thebullyinghelpline.blogspot.com/2009/08/why-not-to-ask-for-independent.html) is to be believed. There's a suggestion that she refers callers to HR & Diversity Management Limited who charge a fee for advice which you could get for free from Citizens' Advice or Google.

Maybe she hoped for some free publicity from this episode; if so she seems to have scored a spectacular own goal.
Exactly. If you work in a high pressure job then expect some pressure. Now of course we don't know what sort of pressure was being put on these people but still, if I worked for the PM I'd expect a lot of pressure.

[Blancvino]

The man just seems unpolished to be a leader.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

I see this story as just another one of those pathetic attempts to give a Gordon Brown a bad image. Just like the 'Letter-gate' where people criticized his handwriting.

Brown is the only one being bullied here.

[Daniel]

The man just seems unpolished to be a leader.
Where did that comment come from?

[BDunnell]

Let me turn the question around. Sir Alex Furguson is know for his "hairdryer" half-time talks, where he will scream and shout directly into the faces of his players if he feels they are underperforming. In this Sun interview (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/article69872.ece), he admits that "although I have a quick temper, I get over it quickly too."

Clearly his players expect that as part of the deal of working at the highest level in the sport. They're expected to give their best, and expect to be verbally abused if they don't. How is that different to MPs, civil servants and staff being expected to perform at the top of their game in a central government office?

The actions of an inarticulate oaf of a football manager should not be considered any sort of example. And it's worth pointing out that not all football managers are as boorish as Alex Ferguson, yet have achieved success.

[Dave B]

Fair point, I'm merely pointing out that this type of behaviour, while maybe inexcusable, is not confinedrto politics.

Can't post a link as I'm on my mobile, but I've been reading the summary of the tribunal Ms. Pratt lost against her old employer where it transpired she was aggressive intimidating and unpleasant to work with, including shouting directly into someone's ear loudly enough to cause them physical pain. Pot kettle black, Ms Pratt?

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Didn't David Cameron say he was going to be the pary leader that focussed on policy rather than personal insults?

[Hondo]

Having worked for a politician, I can tell you that this statement is, quite simply, crap. Sorry.

Having worked for and known more than a couple of politicians, I haven't seen one yet that wouldn't steal a dead fly from a blind spider. They are all egotists, like their defenders, and their arrogance can be appear to be bullying when it's nothing more than common arrogance.

[Hondo]

Much like the Democrats and Republicans in the USA, Labour and Conservatives only real concern is the image and survival of their precious party. The only interest they have in the people they represent is just how much more they can squeeze out of them without killing them. The Social Democrats can't do anything because theres nothing left to steal.

All three parties ought to just let this one go by. Leave the seats vacant and give the people a break.

[Dave B]

Just to tidy up from last night, here's that link:
http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKEAT/2003/0529_02_2210.html#para9

Ms. Pratt might want to take a look at her own behaviour:


The Employment Tribunal concluded that Ms Pratt made no secret of her disagreement with the decision to appoint a General Manager. She was obstructive and unco-operative and made no attempt to work with Mr Roberts, who was new to the organisation. In the evidence, there are many illustrations of the Applicant's aggressive and confrontational approach to Mr Roberts ….."

...

The Employment Tribunal considered Ms Pratt had sent a note to Mr Roberts that was "discourteous and hostile" and sent further memoranda unreasonably critical of Mr Roberts to Mr Noji and Mr Tatsu, among others, which the Employment Tribunal considered to be "aggressive, accusatory and confrontational".

...

During the course of the meeting she complained that Mr Roberts failed to communicate with her. She went over to where Mr Roberts was sitting: "thrust her face into his and screamed "Communicate!" very loudly and directly into his ear. Mr Roberts found this very painful and was profoundly shocked by her conduct."

...

...and at a meeting with Mr Tatsu on 22 January 2001, she made a disparaging remark about Mr Tatsu's command of English which Mr Tatsu, whose first language was not English, found extremely hurtful. The Employment Tribunal considered that Ms Pratt could and should have been formally disciplined for this conduct.


Nice woman to work with, hey?

There's some more interesting reading about her in the second half of this Daily Mail article (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1253035/Charity-chief-Christine-Pratt-admits-intimidation-Downing-St-bullying-backlash.html?ITO=1490)- possibly the last paper you might think would come to Brown's defence.

[Daniel]

Just to tidy up from last night, here's that link:
http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKEAT/2003/0529_02_2210.html#para9

Ms. Pratt might want to take a look at her own behaviour:



Nice woman to work with, hey?

There's some more interesting reading about her in the second half of this Daily Mail article (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1253035/Charity-chief-Christine-Pratt-admits-intimidation-Downing-St-bullying-backlash.html?ITO=1490)- possibly the last paper you might think would come to Brown's defence.
Do as I say, not as I do?

[BDunnell]

Having worked for and known more than a couple of politicians, I haven't seen one yet that wouldn't steal a dead fly from a blind spider. They are all egotists, like their defenders, and their arrogance can be appear to be bullying when it's nothing more than common arrogance.

As I said, my personal experience is entirely different, so you ought to take this into consideration when slating all of them. Maybe - whisper it - our political class in Britain is superior to yours, possibly because of the lack of US-style big money in the political world? Just a thought.

[BDunnell]

There's some more interesting reading about her in the second half of this Daily Mail article (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1253035/Charity-chief-Christine-Pratt-admits-intimidation-Downing-St-bullying-backlash.html?ITO=1490)- possibly the last paper you might think would come to Brown's defence.

Indeed, but in part it is doing so because it is opposed to what it considers to be the namby-pamby notion of bullying in the workplace being a problem. As I said earlier, the Daily Mail itself is not known to be a nice working environment in this respect.

[Mark]

It's a subtle difference. Shouting at someone you think isn't doing their best is one thing. But bullying is more like constantly belittling them in small ways, but ones which are very noticeable to the victim.

Ferguson may well shout at players, but if he just shouts at the ones playing badly and not at one particular player whether he is playing well or not, then that's not really bullying as such.

Myself, I was bullied at school, but nobody ever hit me (I tended to fight back and bullies don't like that), it was much more subtle than that.

[Daniel]

It's a subtle difference. Shouting at someone you think isn't doing their best is one thing. But bullying is more like constantly belittling them in small ways, but ones which are very noticeable to the victim.

Ferguson may well shout at players, but if he just shouts at the ones playing badly and not at one particular player whether he is playing well or not, then that's not really bullying as such.

Myself, I was bullied at school, but nobody ever hit me (I tended to fight back and bullies don't like that), it was much more subtle than that.
I was bullied at school too. One kid even said to me in year 12 that he was always surprised that I didn't come in with a gun and shoot everyone. Not sure whether he was trying to say I was crazy or that I had a very thick skin :p

[Daniel]

Indeed, but in part it is doing so because it is opposed to what it considers to be the namby-pamby notion of bullying in the workplace being a problem. As I said earlier, the Daily Mail itself is not known to be a nice working environment in this respect.
Yes but the Daily Mail didn't come out and criticise others for their workplace first. As it says in the bible, let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

[BDunnell]

Yes but the Daily Mail didn't come out and criticise others for their workplace first. As it says in the bible, let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

I choose to ignore anything the Bible says. Even though the woman who runs the bullying helpline comes across as ghastly, the Daily Mail's stance in this case is not an honourable one. But when is it?

[Hondo]

As I said, my personal experience is entirely different, so you ought to take this into consideration when slating all of them. Maybe - whisper it - our political class in Britain is superior to yours, possibly because of the lack of US-style big money in the political world? Just a thought.

I would suggest you do the same when defending all of them. It's ok to defend the guy you worked for based upon your experience and opinion of him. Then again, maybe you weren't close enough in the inner circle where you got to see the real him. They have tendency to keep that wall all the way up until they're positive they are only amonst those that won't rat them out or turn on them. Maybe it's just an honor and trust thing among men.

[Daniel]

I choose to ignore anything the Bible says. Even though the woman who runs the bullying helpline comes across as ghastly, the Daily Mail's stance in this case is not an honourable one. But when is it?
I don't take the bible to heart either as I'm not religious at all despite being brought up to be. But it's a good rule to live by, to a point of course.

The moral of the story is that if you're going to be accusing people of bullying and throw mud around that you better be squeaky clean yourself.

[Dave B]

As Karl Pilkington once said, people who live in glass houses should w**k in the basement.

[wedge]

The actions of an inarticulate oaf of a football manager should not be considered any sort of example. And it's worth pointing out that not all football managers are as boorish as Alex Ferguson, yet have achieved success.

Gordon Ramsey being an easy one.

Miramax founders and film producers the Weinstein brothers - Harvey in particular who is known for his rage. He reduced his underlings to tears and yet there were plenty who put up him and knew how to press the right buttons.

[BDunnell]

Gordon Ramsey being an easy one.

Another person who furthers the view that being a (word I can't use) is OK both because one is 'successful' and in order to become 'successful'. In fact, it's better not to be a (word I can't use) at all.

[wedge]

Another person who furthers the view that being a (word I can't use) is OK both because one is 'successful' and in order to become 'successful'. In fact, it's better not to be a (word I can't use) at all.

You've never worked in restuarant, have you?

[BDunnell]

You've never worked in restuarant, have you?

No, but why is there the need for chefs to behave in such a fashion? I suspect that there isn't one, and that they do so because they feel that's how they should behave, rather than because it's necessary. Instances in the workplace of genuinely needing to behave like a (word I can't use) are very rare.

[wedge]

No, but why is there the need for chefs to behave in such a fashion? I suspect that there isn't one, and that they do so because they feel that's how they should behave, rather than because it's necessary. Instances in the workplace of genuinely needing to behave like a (word I can't use) are very rare.

It's pressure cooker environment (excuse the pun). Orders flying in, time at a premium and standards are high. Not that I advocate that sort of behaviour but it can be easy (again pardon the pun) for things to boil over.

[Daniel]

It's pressure cooker environment (excuse the pun). Orders flying in, time at a premium and standards are high. Not that I advocate that sort of behaviour but it can be easy (again pardon the pun) for things to boil over.
Why is Gordon so angry though? Don't they pretty much just microwave everything at his restaurants? ;)

[BeansBeansBeans]

It's pressure cooker environment (excuse the pun). Orders flying in, time at a premium and standards are high. Not that I advocate that sort of behaviour but it can be easy (again pardon the pun) for things to boil over.

The sort of behaviour exhibited by Ramsey, Ferguson...etc is quite common in stressful environments (such as a kitchen or premier league dressing room). Where I agree with Ben is that such behaviour shouldn't be seen as necessary, or even a plus. You can be both succesful and a gentleman.

[christophulus]

The sort of behaviour exhibited by Ramsey, Ferguson...etc is quite common in stressful environments (such as a kitchen or premier league dressing room). Where I agree with Ben is that such behaviour shouldn't be seen as necessary, or even a plus. You can be both successful and a gentleman.

You can shout without bullying someone, occasionally people need to be kicked (metaphorically) into action. I'd say that harassment is bullying, whereas I've worked in a kitchen, and shouting and swearing is just par for the course - not to mention necessary as it's a very loud environment. The key is to give as good as you take, and don't take it personally, I never viewed it as bullying and we'd all sit and have a drink after the shift.

It's a good way to make you more assertive anyway, as I'd never have dreamed of questioning my manager when I started, never mind yelling at her when she was having a go at me for something I hadn't done! You take a high pressure job, you have to deal with the stress it brings in my opinion.

Bullying is systematic victimising, not an isolated case of being shouted at.

[christophulus]

It's a subtle difference. Shouting at someone you think isn't doing their best is one thing. But bullying is more like constantly belittling them in small ways, but ones which are very noticeable to the victim.

Ferguson may well shout at players, but if he just shouts at the ones playing badly and not at one particular player whether he is playing well or not, then that's not really bullying as such.

I agree, you can shout without bullying someone, occasionally people need to be kicked (metaphorically) into action. Bullying is systematic victimising, not an isolated case of being shouted at.

I've worked in a kitchen, and shouting and swearing is just par for the course - not to mention necessary as it's a very noisy environment. The key is to give as good as you take, and don't take it personally, I never viewed it as bullying and we'd all sit and have a drink after the shift.

It's a good way to make you more assertive anyway, as I'd never have dreamed of questioning my manager when I started, never mind yelling at her when she was having a go at me for something I hadn't done! You take a high pressure job, you have to deal with the stress it brings in my opinion.

[christophulus]

Not sure what happened there, my browser crashed so I typed it out again, but then it saved the first post anyway :s

[driveace]

i think there is more to this than has emerged so far.I have worked with Scots in Glasgow and they can be very aggressive,at least some of the ones I worked with as a Driving Examiner were,and a little anti English.(You have taken all the money from our north sea oil).I also have friends from Glasgow and the Misses of the couple is very SHARP!!.
Now Alister Darling says he has had some back door treatment too!!

[Mark]

i think there is more to this than has emerged so far.I have worked with Scots in Glasgow and they can be very aggressive,at least some of the ones I worked with as a Driving Examiner were,and a little anti English.(You have taken all the money from our north sea oil).I also have friends from Glasgow and the Misses of the couple is very SHARP!!.
Now Alister Darling says he has had some back door treatment too!!

Is it too late to change the leader?!

[driveace]

NO it is not too late to change the leader,and we will all have chance to do that I believe inthe next 2 months.
I would like to see an HONEST government,with HONEST polititions,who wont pin our shirts up,like has happened with the expenses scandal.and taking us into war on a false statement.
After13 years of this LOT,I hope anew broom (not Brown) sweeps CLEANER!!!!

[Garry Walker]

Most of the time, it's entirely unnecessary. A good boss should never resort to shouting. There are other ways that might be less 'tough', and thus are frowned upon by those who are easily impressed by individuals who behave in such a manner, but which are far more effective, surely.
What are your management experiences, where have you been "the boss", for you to say that a good boss should never resort to shouting?

Sometimes one cannot avoid shouting, sometimes that is needed to make sure the things that need to be done, get done. Cant say I enjoy shouting at someone though, but I enjoy things being not done even less.

[Rollo]

Why is Gordon so angry though? Don't they pretty much just microwave everything at his restaurants? ;)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/7186310/Gordon-Brown-eating-nine-bananas-a-day-to-ween-himself-off-KitKats.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8504607.stm

Maybe he's suffering from Kit-Kat withdrawals. Mind you with the scowl of a face he's got, maybe a happy Gordon Brown is an equally scary thing.

Besides which, despite reports that Gordon Brown is dead:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_4SA2peIqZmQ/Sj0NvAhsapI/AAAAAAAACo4/i_uC9QTpvsw/s400/Flash+Gordon+Prince+Vultan+of+the+hawkmen+flash12. gif

GORDON'S ALIVE!