the worst touring cars

[reidy_fan]

from eurotech's thread with the best, now for the worst, the dogs, the cars that wouldnt win with lewis hamilton at the wheel

pre 1990, ford escort RS 1600
super tourer, pug 405?? the one that partick watts drove
BTC-T, Pug 307, what was Vic Lee on when he built this car?????
S2000, Lexus IS2000, speedequipe made a vailiant effort at building their own cars instead of buying old hondas or astras but the results were woeful, BTC tried to rebuild them but they were still slow. the car in front is a toyota...not that one

[LiamM]

BTC-T, Pug 307, what was Vic Lee on when he built this car?????


Probably the stuff he was caught importing?

[VkmSpouge]

Super tourer: There were a host of small privateers who built their owns that never had the resources behind them to turn the cars into success like the Ford Sierra (I remember that running right at the back in the hands of Bob Berridge in 1993), Rover 200 and Vauxhall Belmont. Of the works cars the Mazda 323f wasn't brilliant and any Peugeot in the BTCC (except that of Lee Brookes and Hamish Irvine) was pretty useless, though interesting to note that the 406 was a championship winning car in the STW.

BTC-Touring: Few cars to choose from the Alfa Romeo 147 had a grenade like engine and the Peugeot 307 was under developed (not sure why VLR felt they needed to replace the 406 coupe). The Proton Impian wasn't any good either.

BTC-Production: Lets not forget the Production cars! Perhaps it would be unfair to point to Jason Hughes' Nissan Primera and the various Honda Integras that raced in the class as they were old and championship winning cars in their in the NSC. I think the TH Motorsport Proton Satria and the CAM Sport Mitsubishi Carisma (that TH bought in 2002 to replace the Proton) were fairly dire.

Super 2000: The LPG fuelled Mardi Gras Motorsport Honda Civic Type-R driven in the opening rounds of the 2004 by John George was clearly awful. The regular Honda Civic Type-R wasn't much better (see Richard Marsh's efforts).

Now I support small teams trying new cars, I think it's great, adds to the variety of the grid and they're often amongst my favourite entries (good luck to AmD and their Golf by the way!). However their track record due to their lack of resources means that a lot of those efforts have been at the back of the grid.

[BTCC2]

2004 Honda Civic. Driven by John George.

[BTCC2]

In no particular order from my time watching the BTCC:

2004 Honda Civic Type R, Mardi Gras Motorsport
2004 Honda Civic Type R, Team Varta
2003 Proton Impian, Team Petronas Syntium Proton
2003 Peugeot 307, Team Halfords
2001 Alfa Romeo 147, JSM Motorsport
2001 Nissan Primera, Bintcliffe Sport Racing
2000 Toyota Carina, Geoff Kimber-Smith
2000 Honda Integra Type R, Arnold James
2000 Nissan Primera, PRO Motorsport
1997 Vauxhall Vectra, Vauxhall Sport

[Rollo]

I think I remember Patrick Watts driving a Fiat Uno Turbo at Silverstone c.1986, which although was screaming its head off, was quite quite crapulent.

[Eurotech]

from eurotech's thread with the best
Wooo :) I'm famous :D

I'd say the worst Touring Cars (in my opinion):
> Proton Impian
Underdeveloped and badly prepared. Should never have been raced and why the hell did the team replace Bennett and Leslie for 2004?
> Peugeot 307
Looked stupid and had pace to match. The team struggled with it being massively late building the cars (They were on the Ferry to round 1 at Mondello whith unfinished paint)
> Vauxhall Vectra (Mk1)
Slow and not good enough for what was a championship winning team.
> SEAT Leon TDi
Annoyingly quiet and stupidly fast towards the end of the 2008 season, Glad to see it gone.
> Alfa Romeo 147
Boiled itself more times than a kettle during the 2001 season. Tim Harvey managed to get a Podium at Oulton but that was as good as it got.
> Lada 110/Priora
Not strictly a BTCC car but terrible anyway. Looked stupid with its 4 mile wide wheel arches and wasn't especially fast. James Thompson tried with it and sometimes did quite well but sadly it never managed to do anything special.

[NoahsGirl]

I thought the Protons were woeful - the late David Leslie had to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

[mac853]

Wooo :) I'm famous :D

I'd say the worst Touring Cars (in my opinion):
> Proton Impian
Underdeveloped and badly prepared. Should never have been raced and why the hell did the team replace Bennett and Leslie for 2004?
> Peugeot 307
Looked stupid and had pace to match. The team struggled with it being massively late building the cars (They were on the Ferry to round 1 at Mondello whith unfinished paint)
> Vauxhall Vectra (Mk1)
Slow and not good enough for what was a championship winning team.
> SEAT Leon TDi
Annoyingly quiet and stupidly fast towards the end of the 2008 season, Glad to see it gone.
> Alfa Romeo 147
Boiled itself more times than a kettle during the 2001 season. Tim Harvey managed to get a Podium at Oulton but that was as good as it got.
> Lada 110/Priora
Not strictly a BTCC car but terrible anyway. Looked stupid with its 4 mile wide wheel arches and wasn't especially fast. James Thompson tried with it and sometimes did quite well but sadly it never managed to do anything special.
Sorry, I think your opinions is not very fair with some of them.
Proton cars were in 2nd and 3rd place in Asian series, including many victories in some rounds in many years ago, facing the 320i of Champion driver, Engstler.
I guess 147 as you meaning should be old BTC spec car, but not that 147 SP class which won in ITCC and made wonderful race in 2 editions of Guia race in Macau.
Seat Leon TDI for me is undoubtly 1 of the best TC car in the actual era, i am sure about that. Just remaining to ensure as the best car.

For me the worst cars or without any success are these:
Toyota Supra of Group A
Alfa 155, Toyota Carina, Mazda Xedos, Mazda 323F, Peugeot 405, Seat Toledo and Hyundai Elantra of ST or Class 2
Ford Mustang of DTM
Chevrolet Lacetti, Nissan Primera and Honda Integra DC2R of SP class
Ford Focus(both versions) and Nissan Primera in S2000 class

[mattie007]

If my memory is correct, didn't the Protons do quite well in there first season? Couple of podiums?

The 307 is the worst one for me. Think it had one good race!

[BTCC2]

For me the worst cars or without any success are these:
Toyota Supra of Group A
Alfa 155, Toyota Carina, Mazda Xedos, Mazda 323F, Peugeot 405, Seat Toledo and Hyundai Elantra of ST or Class 2
Ford Mustang of DTM
Chevrolet Lacetti, Nissan Primera and Honda Integra DC2R of SP class
Ford Focus(both versions) and Nissan Primera in S2000 class

How the hell can you claim the SEAT Toledo or the Chevrolet Lacetti were one of the worst cars whilst defending Proton?

[BTCC2]

If my memory is correct, didn't the Protons do quite well in there first season? Couple of podiums?

The 307 is the worst one for me. Think it had one good race!

Yeah but there was hardly alot of stiff competition in 2002.

[wedge]

1996 Ford Mondeo - The Rat AKA Paul Radisich didn't deserve to drive such piece of junk that year

[Alfa Fan]

How the hell can you claim the SEAT Toledo or the Chevrolet Lacetti were one of the worst cars whilst defending Proton?

I think it would help if you read what he posted.

[BTCC2]

For me the worst cars or without any success are these:

Am I supposed to presume that they are listed under the 'without any success' category then? If so then why are they listed and not the doubtless hundreds if not thousands of other cars that have never had 'success', yet were evidentally much worse?

[mac853]

How the hell can you claim the SEAT Toledo or the Chevrolet Lacetti were one of the worst cars whilst defending Proton?
No, wait "BTCC2", we had some misunderstanding, let me explain carefully, please?

That Chevrolet Lacetti what i am telling is that in ATCC with SP spec which prepared by HK chinese which drove by Frank Yee, not that which RML made in WTCC which is S2000 spec, you are misunderstanding, see here:
http://www.afos.com/gallery_area2/details.php?image_id=5049

The Toledo what i am telling is that class2 car which was running in 1994 Spain nationals, driven by Fabien Giroix, don't you know that worst TC ever built by Spaniards of Catalunya?
I could tell you, my portuguese classmates said, even production version made in '90 by Spaniards is like a toy car, in fact in that time the know-how of the making cars by the factory of catalunya is still far behind comparing with Audi and VW.
See here:

[VkmSpouge]

I thought the Protons were woeful - the late David Leslie had to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

I think it showed off Leslie's talents that he hauled that thing onto the podium on a few occasions.

[BTCC2]

No, wait "BTCC2", we had some misunderstanding, let me explain carefully, please?

That Chevrolet Lacetti what i am telling is that in ATCC with SP spec which prepared by HK chinese which drove by Frank Yee, not that which RML made in WTCC which is S2000 spec, you are misunderstanding, see here:
http://www.afos.com/gallery_area2/details.php?image_id=5049

The Toledo what i am telling is that class2 car which was running in 1994 Spain nationals, driven by Fabien Giroix, don't you know that worst TC ever built by Spaniards of Catalunya?
I could tell you, my portuguese classmates said, even production version made in '90 by Spaniards is like a toy car, in fact in that time the know-how of the making cars by the factory of catalunya is still far behind comparing with Audi and VW.
See here:

Apologies, I was referring only to BTCC cars.

[Eurotech]

loving the way theres no love for the 307s :)

[mac853]

Apologies, I was referring only to BTCC cars.
:eek: Oops, my bad!
But why just in BTCC, the range to talk is so narrow!?
I thought i could share my knowledge with guys of another side of the World. :(
Anyway, pardon!

[LiamM]

:eek: Oops, my bad!
But why just in BTCC, the range to talk is so narrow!?
I thought i could share my knowledge with guys of another side of the World. :(
Anyway, pardon!

Its just that most of the posters in this section live in the UK so the BTCC is the biggest topic of conversation

[PDS]

Its just that most of the posters in this section live in the UK so the BTCC is the biggest topic of conversation
And as mac853 has shown us. One can do well in one country but be crap in another without us knowing..

Another example: the Alfa 156. In the WTCC and other championships it was great, a race winner. But when A-Tech ran it a few years ago... well we all know that one?

The worst performing car in the BTCC must be the Lexus IS200. Adam Jones was the only driver put in half reasonable performances. Everyone else seemed to waste their time with it..

[Eurotech]

The worst performing car in the BTCC must be the Lexus IS200. Adam Jones was the only driver put in half reasonable performances. Everyone else seemed to waste their time with it..
Its amazing how popular it was considering how fast it is... I think there was 4 entered at the end of 2006!

[mac853]

Since that Toyota car is not prepared by his own country factory, those IS200 will not perform nothing, this mean Toyota cars is nothing good.
For the coincidence, in Macau GP 2007 i saw a bunch of Tom's guys peeping seriously those old E46 of Team Engstler, in that moment i thought they are looking for building own S2000 car, unfortunately until now nothing had happened.

[Eurotech]

Since that Toyota car is not prepared by his own country factory, those IS200 will not perform nothing,
Not necessarily, the Honda Integras in the BTCC were good and they were developed without manufacturers support.

[Captain VXR]

Not necessarily, the Honda Integras in the BTCC were good and they were developed without manufacturers support.

However most of their internal parts were cannibalised from the CTRs they ran pre 2005, which WERE developed by a manufacturer team

[Eurotech]

Actually, that reminds me, The Honda Civic must be mentioned for its frankly useless reliability in 2003. How can a Honda be so unreliable? At least it redeemed itself in the hands of Chilton and Kaye in 2004 and 05.

[mac853]

Not necessarily, the Honda Integras in the BTCC were good and they were developed without manufacturers support.
Yes, that's i want to mentioning.
Honda is good in anytime anyway, Toyota is mostly be disappointed.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

My contenders include the Proton Impian (even though Watson-Smith got a fastest lap out of it),

Peugeot 406 Super Tourer, how can a car that wins the championship in Germany be so bad over here?

BMW 1series diesel, just painfully slow.

[CroftPilgrim]

Wooo :)
> Proton Impian
Underdeveloped and badly prepared. Should never have been raced and why the hell did the team replace Bennett and Leslie for 2004?


Answer - money!

Although officially a works entry (ie Proton paid the entry fee) the team ran on very little money, probably less than some of the independents. Hence why it was underdeveloped and badly prepared.

I have to agree with the comments about the Leon TDi though. Although it was fast it was the most unexciting car ever to race in the BTCC because who wants to go and watch something that makes as much noise as a milkfloat?

[Abo]

Vectra was sooo disappointing after the success of the Cavvy. The 406 was pretty crap wasn't it, again after 405 did ok?

[Eurotech]

The Mondeo wasn't great half way through its life though either IIRC....

[52Paddy]

Kartworld's MG (Jason Hughes) in 2004 was awful. But the MGs were generally competitive cars.

[Alfa Fan]

No it wasn't! Jason did reasonably well in the MG. 17th in the championship overall wasn't too bad for a first season.

[52Paddy]

No it wasn't! Jason did reasonably well in the MG. 17th in the championship overall wasn't too bad for a first season.

He always seemed to be struggling to set any kind of pace if I recall correctly.

[Dickie L'Amour]

Nick May's bi-turbo Maserati anyone? That was a real shocker. Ray Armes's PG Tips Honda Civic.I think they entered a 1.6 car into a 2.0 class. How they ever expected that to work I'll never know? The Bob berridge Sierra and the Vauxhall Belmont in 91 were also dire and there were some really bad RS500s when RS500s were the thing to have. But at least they all had a go!