24 hours of Le Mans 2010 official thread...

[Tom206wrc]

Hi,


It's time to create this week THE thread of the so awaited race, as in two days(on thursday), ACO will reveal the 55 teams and cars accepted !!!! :p :


Just can't wait :bounce:

[Tom206wrc]

Start of ACO conference in about 30 minutes :cool:

[Tom206wrc]

Quite unexpected on some points, the entrylist for Le Mans is CRAZY !!!! :eek: :eek:
http://www.lemans.org/

Return of DOME, coming of BMW, Ford and Jaguar in GT, several Corvettes, return of Saleen(Larbre), Acura(under Honda name) represented by Highcroft and Strakka in LMP2, american team Autocon in LMP1,... :D

You can't miss this edition on this forum, you MUST follow it :p :

[chryby]

tom, for czech colours (french maybe too) is interesting this crew:
LMP1: Pescarolo Sport (Pescarolo-Judd) - Ho-Pin Tung/Jan Charouz
;)

[Tom206wrc]

I doubt the Pesca will have the Charouz livery though :p :

[Josh1985]

I'm confused...since when is the Patron Acura a P2 car?

[harvick#1]

Patron racing is going back to the P2 chassis this year, since ALMS is combining the classes, they said that car is better off

[Josh1985]

Oh, hmmm. I'm not sure how I missed that. lol. I'm a big ALMS fan and am usually on top of things. lol

[harvick#1]

here are some pics from the Sebring test a week ago.

Patron racing and Audi

http://robmurrayphotography.smugmug.com/Other/Sebring-2010/11111210_Ztg2H#778328749_hFseY

[Eurotech]

nice pics, I wish Audi would keep the R15 in that black livery for racing...

[Tom206wrc]

Sad news just in !!!!! Dome already forfait(source Endurance-Info today)... ;( ;( :(

[Tom206wrc]

Test in Monza ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OE5s72Td18k&feature=player_embedded

[Tom206wrc]

Less than one month to wait :cool:

[slorydn1]

Sorry for being a little behind the story this year, but what is the date of the 24 hrs this year?

[harvick#1]

June 12th-13th

[slorydn1]

June 12th-13th

Thanks Harv :up: I'll still be on vacation. Will be a long, sleepless 24 hours then :D

[harvick#1]

the entry list for the 2010 edition of the 24 hours of Lemans :D


http://www.lemans.org/wpphpFichiers/1/1/ressources/Pdf/24heures_auto_2010/2010_05_19_liste_equipages_invites.pdf

[Rollo]

Alesi and Fisichella will be in the same car it appears, and the Mansell mob looks like that they actually have been given Red 5 to put on their car.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Alesi and Fisichella will be in the same car it appears, and the Mansell mob looks like that they actually have been given Red 5 to put on their car.
The Mansell Mob...lol...great moniker for the clan...

[Tom206wrc]

6 days left to wait before the first public scruteneerings of the cars :bounce:

Expect fantastic pics on sunday evening :D

[Tom206wrc]

Two days left before the official scruteneering... :cool:

[harvick#1]

first of the cars in the paddock

http://www.endurance-info.com/version2/galerie-photo.php?page=457&np=1

I forgot about the alcohol law in France, its a shame there is no Patron branding :(

[harvick#1]

PlayStation branding on the 3 factory Peugeots :)

http://www.autohebdo.fr/photos.php?u=27&d=5&id=519&id_photo=5594&pg=&p=4

[Wild Dog]

Really hope Tom Kristensen can win again, but the Peugoet's looks very good.

Also nice to see what BMW and Ford can do.

[AndyRAC]

Free practice, Peugeot 1-2-3-4 with a 3:20 lap.........

[harvick#1]

The ACO should be ashamed of themselves, the gap between Petrol vs Diesels is even worse this year, end this crap and equalize the engines or they are gonna be losing alot of teams next year cause they dont want the handicap of this, AMR has already threatened a leave

[AndyRAC]

The ACO should be ashamed of themselves, the gap between Petrol vs Diesels is even worse this year, end this crap and equalize the engines or they are gonna be losing alot of teams next year cause they dont want the handicap of this, AMR has already threatened a leave

Well, weren't the ACO hoodwinked??

[dj4monie]

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/le-mans2010

[dj4monie]

The ACO should be ashamed of themselves, the gap between Petrol vs Diesels is even worse this year, end this crap and equalize the engines or they are gonna be losing alot of teams next year cause they dont want the handicap of this, AMR has already threatened a leave

In the defense of the ACO, you want to dumb down the diesels enough to compete with Lord Drayson? Without a pure and cash heavy petrol challenger to compare it too, its hard to regulate.

The 2011 rules are very different and the gap should be much narrower in LMP1 actually.

[harvick#1]

Drayson has not been that fast, but when the AMR and everyone else is 7-8 seconds slower a lap, its just flat wrong!!!!! have a seperate category or something, because for the Petrol teams, its gotta be nerve breaking knowing they will not have a shot until the regs equalize

if it was even, AMR, Oreca, and Rebellion Racing are all very fast cars and very good drivers.

in LMP2, without the Spyders, it appears the win will be the fight between the 2 HPD's of Strakka and Highcroft racing.

GT1, why are they sill out there???

GT2, Risi always the team to beat in the Ferrari in the big money races, Corvette is on par as well.

[dj4monie]

Drayson has not been that fast, but when the AMR and everyone else is 7-8 seconds slower a lap, its just flat wrong!!!!! have a seperate category or something, because for the Petrol teams, its gotta be nerve breaking knowing they will not have a shot until the regs equalize

if it was even, AMR, Oreca, and Rebellion Racing are all very fast cars and very good drivers.

in LMP2, without the Spyders, it appears the win will be the fight between the 2 HPD's of Strakka and Highcroft racing.

GT1, why are they sill out there???

GT2, Risi always the team to beat in the Ferrari in the big money races, Corvette is on par as well.

AMR did not and still doesn't have the budget compared to Audi et-al; Sam Hancock and Juan Barzi? are both pay drivers at Le Mans this year. Fernandez's sponsorship with Lowe's funded their 3 races in America, they will run Petit later this year.

There is not a petrol team equal to the factory run teams, maybe in driver talent but not in budget or engineering.

You'll have to ask Ratel and the ACO why the GT1 cars are there, but to be honest it was never official that the ACO killed the GT1 class, it just didn't look like any likely teams would run the cars in the face of the SRO's World GT1 Championship.

[Shifter]

McNish didn't sound happy with the performance gap to the Peugeots.

[tf109b]

Some of the FIA GT1 cars are at GT1 in LeMans, and they're faster than the GT2 cars by a good 4-5 seconds. 3:55 for the Young Driver DBR9 3:59 for the fastest GT2- Risi Ferrari. If they didn't hinder the GT1 cars so much it'd be better, I'm glad GT1 still exists, GT2 just doesn't look like they are super sports cars. An M3 vs. an F430? Come on. They should have relevant performance in their road cars compared to other's in their class. F430 should be GT1 along with Lamborghini's and Astons Nissan GTRs. M3 Jaguar Porsche should be GT2 along with audi R8 corvette Aston Vantage and other GT3 cars like Gallardo since they use Murc in GT1. And I hope with the V8's next year the LMP1 cars are closer.

[Tom206wrc]

Looks like set-up problems for the Audis :confused:

By the way: 3'19"700 for Bourdais at the first qual' practice :eek:

[AndyRAC]

I don't think Audi expected to be as far off the pace. However, their race pace will be a lot better - but it looks like they'll need rain to challenge.

[Eurotech]

I'm loving the GT1 class atm, an Aston Martin dominating? what are you all complaining about? :D

[harvick#1]

Lineup for the 24 Hours of Lemans
(cars in bold mean Pole position in Class)

1. LMP1 #3 Peugeot Sport Total
2. LMP1 #1 Team Peugeot Total
3. LMP1 #2 Team Peugeot Total
4. LMP1 #4 Team Oreca Matmut
5. LMP1 #9 Audi Sport North America
6. LMP1 #7 Audi Sport Team Joest
7. LMP1 #8 Audi Sport Team Joest
8. LMP1 #007 Aston Martin Racing
9. LMP1 #009 Aston Martin Racing
10. LMP1 #6 AIM Team Oreca Matmut
11. LMP1 #008 Signature Plus
12. LMP1 #14 Kolles
13. LMP1 #15 Kolles
14. LMP1 #11 Drayson Racing
15. LMP2 #42 Strakka Racing
16. LMP1 #12 Rebellion Racing
17. LMP2 #26 Highcroft Racing
18. LMP1 #5 Beechdean Mansell
19. LMP1 #13 Rebellion Racing
20. LMP2 #25 RML
21. LMP2 #40 Quifel - ASM Team
22. LMP2 #35 Oak Racing
23. LMP1 #19 Autocon Racing
24. LMP2 #29 Racing Box
25. LMP2 #41 Team Bruichladdich
26. LMP2 #39 KSM
27. LMP2 #24 Oak racing
28. LMP2 #38 Pegasus Racing
29. LMP2 #37 Gerard Welter
30. LMP2 #28 Race Performance AG
31. GT1 #51 Young Driver AMR
32. GT1 #70 Marc VDS Racing
33. GT1 #60 Matech Competition
34. GT1 #73 Luc Alphand Adventures
35. GT1 #72 Luc Alphand Adventures
36. GT2 #82 Risi Competizione
37. GT2 #64 Corvette Racing
38. GT2 #63 Corvette Racing
39. GT2 #95 AF Corse
40. GT1 #61 Matech Competition
41. GT2 #77 Team Felbermayr Proton
42. GT2 #76 IMSA Performance Matmut
43. GT2 #78 BMW Motorsport
44. GT2 #97 BMS Scuderia Italia SPA
45. GT2 #89 Hankook Team Farnbacher
46. GT2 #80 Flying Lizard Motorsports
47. GT1 #50 Labre Competition
48. GT2 #79 BMW Motorsport
49. GT2 #83 Risi Competizione
50. GT2 #85 Spyker Squadron
51. GT2 #92 JMW Motorsport
52. GT1 #69 JLOC
53. GT2 #75 Prospeed Competition
54. GT2 #88 Team Felbermayr Proton
55. GT2 #81 Jaguar RSR


glad to see all the LMP cars faster than the GT's, was alittle nervous with a few of the backmarkers running slower.

predictions on how far JLOC will go??? can thay double what they ran last year after only completing one lap

:beer: here is to a safe and exciting race for Saturday and Sunday

[harvick#1]

the only rain in the forecast is scattered T-storms Saturday, and its only a 30% chance of rain, with both days being in the mid 70's, expect not much sun neither as they are calling for cloud cover.

the track should have quite some grip as it is not gonna be hot.

[anthonyvop]

I'm loving the GT1 class atm, an Aston Martin dominating? what are you all complaining about? :D

Sorry to disappoint you.


CREATION OF THE GT ENDURANCE CATEGORY

In 2011, there will be no LM GT1 category for the following three major reasons:

* Numerous date clashes on the event calendars.
* Very small fields outside the Le Mans 24 Hours.
* The current category is entirely sprint based.

This is why in agreement with the GT manufacturers the ACO has decided to create a GT Endurance category with a single set of regulations valid between 2011 and 2013. These regulations are based on the current GT2 cars complying with the 2009 ACO rules with the following modifications:

* Steering wheel mounted paddle gearshifts allowed.
* Only 1 evolution per year allowed.
* 2 evolutions per year will be allowed for new cars.
* Measures will be taken to reduce top speeds without reducing overall power.

The GT Endurance category will be for one type of car but divided into two classes from 2011:

* GT Endurance PRO: a professional category, cars and drivers free.
* GT Endurance AM: cars over one year old and with a minimum of two drivers classified in the bronze or silver categories (defined under LM P2 LMS 2010 regulations).
* The Michelin Green X Challenge will continue in the PROTOTYPES and GT classes.
* Reduction in tyre consumption (as defined in 2009 and 2010 ACO Regulations)
* Reduction in noise level decibels (From 112DB in 2010 to 110DB in 2011)

Part of the ACO rules for 2011
http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=372294&FS=ALMS-LEMANS

[F1boat]

I hope that the lions will win, although I respect Audi a lot.

[Wim_Impreza]

I hope to see a nice battle between Audi and Peugeot, but I am afraid Peugeot will be much faster. I don't like that diesels are so much faster than the others.

Unfortunately this will probably the last year of the GT1 class in Le Mans as there are plans to ban this nice class next year. :(

[edv]

Risi Ferrari to the back due to illegal gurney flap.
Should make things a little more interesting in GT2.

[harvick#1]

I hope to see a nice battle between Audi and Peugeot, but I am afraid Peugeot will be much faster. I don't like that diesels are so much faster than the others.

Unfortunately this will probably the last year of the GT1 class in Le Mans as there are plans to ban this nice class next year. :(


dont let Qualifying fool you, Audi was very consistent in race pace and quick too. Audi really never tries to make Q-runs because they know you cant win on Thursday

[Wim_Impreza]

dont let Qualifying fool you, Audi was very consistent in race pace and quick too. Audi really never tries to make Q-runs because they know you cant win on Thursday

Last year the Audi's were on the same pace in the qualifying. In the race it was clear that the Peugeot had more topspeed at the long straights and I think this difference is still there. IMO The GT1 and especially the GT2 class will be much more exciting.

[Redstorm]

The Pug has the exact same trap speed as the Audi. By Audi's own admission, they have a harder time getting the power down. The Pug just tops out quicker. They will work their magic no doubt but Sarrizane had an ominous laugh when asked how the race will go. Sounds like if anything the Pug is sandbagging.....

We've had enough playtime with the oil burners, bring back the screamers please!

[KKS]

Hello, U r listen Radio LeMans? http://rlm.0157.org/nplayer.php Maybe u have a direct link to listen same at winamp or so?

[wedge]

Peugeot coverage

http://www.lemans.org/wpphpFichiers/1/1/ressources/File/live-tv/live-tv-en.html

[harvick#1]

just remember, for those that lose coverage, Audi is running their videos of all 3 cars all race long

http://tv.audi.com/#/01

[Daniel]

Poop. One Peugeot out :(

[themo]

In trying to pass the # 79 BMW driven by Andy Priaulx, Tom Kristensen slid off into the gravel and touched the cars rear wing against the tyre wall and was dragged out by the extraction team and returned to the pits.


Dr. Ullrich went off to speak to BMW..........................!

[Daniel]

In trying to pass the # 79 BMW driven by Andy Priaulx, Tom Kristensen slid off into the gravel and touched the cars rear wing against the tyre wall and was dragged out by the extraction team and returned to the pits.


Dr. Ullrich went off to speak to BMW..........................!
To do what? Quit GT racing as Audi have quit every other series that they've been successful with when someone else has beaten them? :rotflmao:

[themo]

Maybe he will go to peugeot next and ask them to slow down abit!!

[ioan]

To do what? Quit GT racing as Audi have quit every other series that they've been successful with when someone else has beaten them? :rotflmao:

Justice has been done, the no. 79 BMW left the race a lot of time ago.

[ioan]

Maybe he will go to peugeot next and ask them to slow down abit!!

No need, they are falling out like flies.

[Daniel]

No need, they are falling out like flies.
So what you're saying is that Audi are the Jenson Button of manufacturers? Ultimately not that fast and just waiting for the faster guy to have problems? :p

[ioan]

So what you're saying is that Audi are the Jenson Button of manufacturers? Ultimately not that fast and just waiting for the faster guy to have problems? :p

Just saying that a 24 hours race isn't won in the first few hours. :p
Oh and I doubt that Button could hold a candle to the top LMP1 drivers. He wouldn't even make it through a 3 hours stint.

[Daniel]

Of course Ioan. But the Peugeot's are fast and if not for the rain in 2008 they'd have had another win.

[harvick#1]

but thats why its 24 hours.

the Peugeot is a very low drag style car and the Audi spacey, and flows the air more for tighter circuits, and is more stable.

when it rains, Peugeot's idea of burning everyone on the dry came back to haunt them when it rained because they had no setup to run it, its not Audi's fault they were prepared for rain in 2008

[Daniel]

Of course. It was silly to not have at least one car setup for the wet.

[ioan]

Of course Ioan. But the Peugeot's are fast and if not for the rain in 2008 they'd have had another win.

Rain is part of the life too.

[call_me_andrew]

And now the Audis have managed to outlive the Purgeots. Is today not opposite day?

[Ranger]

Quesnel writing off any hope of victory after the #2 failure. Giving up a bit early isnt it?

The #1 still has a chance of winning, they have a lap to make up in 8 hours. It can be done if trouble doesnt strike that car again.

[Daniel]

Woohoo! I go to sleep with the Peugeot's in front and just like 2008 I wake up and they've lost it :)

[ShiftingGears]

I wish the Speed TV guys would stfu about the lead Corvette crashing already.

[ioan]

Woohoo! I go to sleep with the Peugeot's in front and just like 2008 I wake up and they've lost it :)

And it didn't even rain.

[harvick#1]

Peugeot seemed to overwork the 908's this year, the engines couldnt handle to stress.

Audi played the pace of smooth and steady, and you see them reap the rewards with under 4 hours left

[Daniel]

And it didn't even rain.
Yeah :D But that said the #2 Audi isn't doing so well at the moment. We'll see what happens because the Pugs have the pace and can still push and see what happens.

[ioan]

Yeah :D But that said the #2 Audi isn't doing so well at the moment. We'll see what happens because the Pugs have the pace and can still push and see what happens.

Don't get your hopes too high, the Peugeot is much thirstier when doing those super fast laps, and they fall way back behind the 2nd Audi again.

[Daniel]

Don't get your hopes too high, the Peugeot is much thirstier when doing those super fast laps, and they fall way back behind the 2nd Audi again.
We shall see. I reckon the Peugeot will end up second.

[AndyRAC]

Ah, what a surprise, Audi, end up smelling of roses. That's what happens with only one other competitor!

[ioan]

Ah, what a surprise, Audi, end up smelling of roses. That's what happens with only one other competitor!

I fail too see why this is Audi's fault.

[ShiftingGears]

I fail too see why this is Audi's fault.

I don't think anyone is claiming that it is.

[Daniel]

www.lemans.org (http://www.lemans.org) hacked!!!

http://i47.tinypic.com/2lkpdeo.jpg

[Daniel]

Bah it's gone back now :(

[Daniel]

I fail too see why this is Audi's fault.

I think the point is that with the disease l regs it's a two horse race, with decent regs the petrol cars could be challenging too.

ACO, Peugeot and Audi, we get the idea, disease l's can be fast. Now give us petrol powered coupe cars!.

[ioan]

I don't think anyone is claiming that it is.

Then why mention them? It will always be those doing their homework who will be upfront.

[ioan]

I think the point is that with the ******** regs it's a two horse race, with decent regs the petrol cars could be challenging too.

ACO, Peugeot and Audi, we get the idea, ********s can be fast. Now give us petrol powered coupe cars!.

Were the petrol engine powered cars so reliable? It didn't look like that to me. They should work on that maybe.
Also the diesels were further restricted for this year and still they went faster, maybe the petrol engined teams should pull their fingers out and make their cars faster instead of whining all they long.
Also no one stops them producing a diesel powered cars either.

[Daniel]

Were the petrol engine powered cars so reliable? It didn't look like that to me. They should work on that maybe.
Also the diesels were further restricted for this year and still they went faster, maybe the petrol engined teams should pull their fingers out and make their cars faster instead of whining all they long.
Also no one stops them producing a diesel powered cars either.
But disease l isn't what a racing car should be. Would you be this happy if F1 cars whooshed around the track rather than being high revving petrol engined cars?

It's certainly interesting that a disease l could have won Le Mans but the point has been proven and petrol needs to reign supreme again.

[ioan]

But disease l isn't what a racing car should be. Would you be this happy if F1 cars whooshed around the track rather than being high revving petrol engined cars?

It's certainly interesting that a disease l could have won Le Mans but the point has been proven and petrol needs to reign supreme again.

I wouldn't give a damn about what makes more noise.
To be honest, as I very often pointed it out already, I only care about the best technology. And from this POV a silent engine = higher technology, more efficiency as all that noise is only lost energy after all.

Uh ohh Audi 1,2,3 on the horizon.

[JRodrigues]

Were the petrol engine powered cars so reliable? It didn't look like that to me. They should work on that maybe.
Also the diesels were further restricted for this year and still they went faster, maybe the petrol engined teams should pull their fingers out and make their cars faster instead of whining all they long.
Also no one stops them producing a diesel powered cars either.

Totally agree with you.. Peugeot and Audi invest much more on their cars than Aston and other petrol cars. That's why their much faster. If they wanted to do a winning car with a petrol engine, they would do it. But diesel is such a powerful marketing weapon that they just don't care about petrol engines.

Audi 1-2-3 now :s mokin:

[F1boat]

To finish first, first you have to finish...

[ioan]

Totally agree with you.. Peugeot and Audi invest much more on their cars than Aston and other petrol cars. That's why their much faster. If they wanted to do a winning car with a petrol engine, they would do it. But diesel is such a powerful marketing weapon that they just don't care about petrol engines.

Audi 1-2-3 now :s mokin:

Yep, tight arse Richards will never fork out 150 millions for his Le Mans cars, he just keeps talking about the Aston heritage and other hot air.

[ioan]

I wish the Audi's now do not run 3:20 and 3:21's as they do not need it anymore.

[F1boat]

a question. a car which has not crossed the finish is not classified, is it?

[harvick#1]

Peugeot pushed two hard, moments before #1 blew, I said there was no way the car is gonna survive internally because they were running Q-laps for the previous 12 hours straight, Peugeot only pushes hard and the drivers might now realize how to just set a pace that once you get out front, and not push for more.

they can be the fastest, but the fastest cars normally will not win the race

[ioan]

If Audi wins they will have won 9 out of the last 10 Le Mans 24 hours races.

[Ramore]

Look what I have just noteced. It is fixed already, but that is ridiculous.

[ioan]

Look what I have just noteced. It is fixed already, but that is ridiculous.

??? Way to small to read.

[Daniel]

??? Way to small to read.
Says the same as my screencap Ioan :)

Tbh I have to agree with the hackers :mark:

[ioan]

Oreca Peugeot doing 3:19.047 lap, do they want to end up in smoke too?!

[Ramore]

Sorry, here it is: http://www.rbr-etc.netne.net/lemans.jpg

It is genuine.

[ioan]

Oreca Peugeot doing 3:19.047 lap, do they want to end up in smoke too?!

Looks like I was right. 3 engine failures for Peugeot.

[ioan]

Sorry, here it is: http://www.rbr-etc.netne.net/lemans.jpg

It is genuine.

Looks like they are right! :D

[harvick#1]

Oreca Peugeot blew up, all Peugeots gone

[Daniel]

Sorry, here it is: http://www.rbr-etc.netne.net/lemans.jpg

It is genuine.

If you'd read this thread you'd have seen that I've posted this before.

Oh and yes Ioan, you're right....

[AndyRAC]

What a let down, a real anti-climax. Very unusual for Peugeot.

[Daniel]

Fair play to Audi, they've run the Pugs into the ground this year and squashed them like bugs.

[ioan]

Congratulations Audi! :up: :up: :up:
Great race!

[Daniel]

Congratulations Audi! :up: :up: :up:
Great race!
Can't disagree with that.

Donkeys of the race, Peugeot.

[harvick#1]

Congrats Audi

a clean Sweep :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[wedge]

Congrats to Audi

Not sure if it can be called a great race. They were falling like flies and more of a case of making the least mistakes and tripping over yourselves. The usual shenanigans. I guess 2008 will be difficult to beat.



Peugeot pushed two hard, moments before #1 blew, I said there was no way the car is gonna survive internally because they were running Q-laps for the previous 12 hours straight, Peugeot only pushes hard and the drivers might now realize how to just set a pace that once you get out front, and not push for more.

they can be the fastest, but the fastest cars normally will not win the race

Agreed. At the top of the Speed broadcast they mentioned egos. I thought it was funny at the time but regardless of team orders I found it to be true.


Were the petrol engine powered cars so reliable? It didn't look like that to me. They should work on that maybe.
Also the diesels were further restricted for this year and still they went faster, maybe the petrol engined teams should pull their fingers out and make their cars faster instead of whining all they long.
Also no one stops them producing a diesel powered cars either.

ACO are kowtowing to Audi and Pug. Give the diesels less advantage and they'll leave - Audi nearly left ALMS a few years ago. They've done a lot for LM as anyone who went to the Silverstone 1000 a couple of years ago will testify. They can generate a buzz that Aston/Gulf can never do simply because they're mass car manufacturers and with it they can promote acronyms like FSI, TDI, FAP, HDI

Aston's bread and butter are the V12s not diesels so why should they have that option to race diesels?


In trying to pass the # 79 BMW driven by Andy Priaulx, Tom Kristensen slid off into the gravel and touched the cars rear wing against the tyre wall and was dragged out by the extraction team and returned to the pits.


Dr. Ullrich went off to speak to BMW..........................!

As with Ant and the Chevy they were Racing incidents. Porsche Curves is the worst place for traffic.

[ioan]

Congrats to Audi

Not sure if it can be called a great race. They were falling like flies and more of a case of making the least mistakes and tripping over yourselves. The usual shenanigans. I guess 2008 will be difficult to beat.

2010 is a new LeMans 24 Hours distance record, so Audi did a great race.



ACO are kowtowing to Audi and Pug. Give the diesels less advantage and they'll leave - Audi nearly left ALMS a few years ago. They've done a lot for LM as anyone who went to the Silverstone 1000 a couple of years ago will testify. They can generate a buzz that Aston/Gulf can never do simply because they're mass car manufacturers and with it they can promote acronyms like FSI, TDI, FAP, HDI

Aston's bread and butter are the V12s not diesels so why should they have that option to race diesels?

Rules are rules and if they think that diesels have a better chance then they should make a diesel race car, period.
But will they want to support a development program that costs 150 million / season? I doubt it.
If V12's are their business they should show us that they can make a winner V12 not continue whining and waiting for the organizers to dumb down the other competitors.
It has been several years now that the ACO has been further restricting the diesels and still they come back every year stronger, something you can't say about Aston who is talking about excellence and their heritage but not living up to either of them when the time comes to walk the walk.

Long story short, they should talk less and work more, instead of waiting for presents.

[Daniel]

2010 is a new LeMans 24 Hours distance record, so Audi did a great race.



Rules are rules and if they think that diesels have a better chance then they should make a diesel race car, period.
But will they want to support a development program that costs 150 million / season? I doubt it.
If V12's are their business they should show us that they can make a winner V12 not continue whining and waiting for the organizers to dumb down the other competitors.
It has been several years now that the ACO has been further restricting the diesels and still they come back every year stronger, something you can't say about Aston who is talking about excellence and their heritage but not living up to either of them when the time comes to walk the walk.

Long story short, they should talk less and work more, instead of waiting for presents.
Ioan, it seems to me that you're more of a technology fan. Perhaps you should look at gizmodo, engaget etc etc and get your technology fix rather than letting your love of what is technically possible ruin motorsport.

[ioan]

Ioan, it seems to me that you're more of a technology fan. Perhaps you should look at gizmodo, engaget etc etc and get your technology fix rather than letting your love of what is technically possible ruin motorsport.

I am a technology, real technology, fan not a snob who dreams about stupid gadgets, get over it.

[wedge]

Rules are rules and if they think that diesels have a better chance then they should make a diesel race car, period.
But will they want to support a development program that costs 150 million / season? I doubt it.
If V12's are their business they should show us that they can make a winner V12 not continue whining and waiting for the organizers to dumb down the other competitors.
It has been several years now that the ACO has been further restricting the diesels and still they come back every year stronger, something you can't say about Aston who is talking about excellence and their heritage but not living up to either of them when the time comes to walk the walk.

Long story short, they should talk less and work more, instead of waiting for presents.

Completely clueless and missing the point.

LM is not F1.

Aston Martin are not in the business of selling diesels so why bother?

[harvick#1]

the the gasoline teams want is to be on equal terms with the Diesels, the Gasoline cars are too restricted to catch up to Audi or Peugeot, the AMR 007 ran very fast but was still 3 seonds off the pace of the slowest factory Audi and Peugeot.

they just want the ACO to even the engines up so the teams actually have a fair shot going into Le Mans instead of praying for all them to retire in order to win

[Marbles]

Just when I thought dear old Nige would never have the chance to ham it up again, along comes Le Mans.

In the few hours that I watched, SPEED coverage failed when it came to showing the incidents of the race... An off track incident replay usually just showed the car coming to rest. It was difficult to see what was the cause except for the Peugeot\Corvette incident.

Interesting to see if Audi feels there is anything left in this for them after a decade's dominance.

[Jack Harrington]

I really enjoyed the race, the coverage, the crew. All in all...no complaints! But I was bummed the BMW Arts Car got tangled up in da' mess.

[AndyRAC]

the the gasoline teams want is to be on equal terms with the Diesels, the Gasoline cars are too restricted to catch up to Audi or Peugeot, the AMR 007 ran very fast but was still 3 seonds off the pace of the slowest factory Audi and Peugeot.

they just want the ACO to even the engines up so the teams actually have a fair shot going into Le Mans instead of praying for all them to retire in order to win

Good point, you'll never attract new Manufacturers with the current regs, there still isn't an even playin field. Hopefully, next years regs have addressed this - imagine Audi, Peugeot, Honda(Acura), and one day Ferrari, Porsche all battling for overall honours at Le Mans, and in the new world series.
One other final point, the complete lack of mainstream coverage, where was it? What's happened? Le Mans has joined the list of disgarded Motorsports :(

[Tom206wrc]

Disaster !!!! I'm speechless, under shock !!! Can't believe all the 908s engines blown and let an Audi 1-2-3 :mad: ;(

It's CRISIS among Peugeot-Sport motorengineers :rolleyes:


Edit: but drivers were EXCELLENT !!!! Davidson(especially)Gené, Wurz but also Duval(first real race in the ORECA)and Lapierre :cool:

[wedge]

Just when I thought dear old Nige would never have the chance to ham it up again, along comes Le Mans.

In the few hours that I watched, SPEED coverage failed when it came to showing the incidents of the race... An off track incident replay usually just showed the car coming to rest. It was difficult to see what was the cause except for the Peugeot\Corvette incident.

Speed use the same international feed as everybody else

[boesel]

Hi everybody,
here you can find more than 50 pictures devoted tu usual Friday drivers parade:
http://www.connectingrod.it/LeMans24hours/2010_eng.html

[Rollo]

Completely clueless and missing the point.

LM is not F1.

Aston Martin are not in the business of selling diesels so why bother?

Because they are in the business of Motor Racing. If someone wants to build a better car to beat the Audis, then they should go ahead and build a better car.


Rules are rules and if they think that diesels have a better chance then they should make a diesel race car, period. But will they want to support a development program that costs 150 million / season? I doubt it.
If V12's are their business they should show us that they can make a winner V12 not continue whining and waiting for the organizers to dumb down the other competitors.

I agree with this sentiment entirely.

It was precisely the same reasons why the Porsche 917 had to be banned. It is the same reason why the Mazda 787B had to be banned. Put simply they were the best cars and no-one could be bothered to build a better one.

Motor racing is like a laboratory for automotive development, and although Ioan may disagree with this (because he has said as much in another section of the forums), VAG probably has learnt a lot and those developments will find their way onto the road (VW Polo Bluemotion is a case in point).

Diesel and its related technologies probably are the next major revolution. I expect that possibly someone might develop hybrids or electric cars to go racing in. Whatever the case, if some can can build a better car...

... then BUILD A BETTER CAR.

[wedge]

Because they are in the business of Motor Racing. If someone wants to build a better car to beat the Audis, then they should go ahead and build a better car.

ACO might as well create a diesel class.


It was precisely the same reasons why the Porsche 917 had to be banned. It is the same reason why the Mazda 787B had to be banned. Put simply they were the best cars and no-one could be bothered to build a better one.

Wrong. The rotary engines weren't banned because they won LM. FIA nee Bernie Ecclestone went for the 3.5l homologated engine rule so that manufacturers could jump into F1.

In fact the Mazdas weren't even the fastest cars! The won because they had better reliability in 1991.


Motor racing is like a laboratory for automotive development, and although Ioan may disagree with this (because he has said as much in another section of the forums), VAG probably has learnt a lot and those developments will find their way onto the road (VW Polo Bluemotion is a case in point).

Diesel and its related technologies probably are the next major revolution. I expect that possibly someone might develop hybrids or electric cars to go racing in. Whatever the case, if some can can build a better car...

... then BUILD A BETTER CAR.

Please tell David Richards that all future Aston Martins should be diesels.

Arguably, the green/eco card is nonsense.

High end sports cars and GTs are less likely to see far less mileage than A4 TDI company car.

[harvick#1]

ACO might as well create a diesel class.



why? only Peugeot will be running diesels next year. Audi have already said the R18 will not be a diesel car, but a new fuel

[wedge]

why? only Peugeot will be running diesels next year. Audi have already said the R18 will not be a diesel car, but a new fuel

Pointless that ACO don't equalise the cars in P1. It's a class within a class.

I'd be more happy that they get rid of the air restrictors and see who can build the best engine.

[Rollo]

Wrong. The rotary engines weren't banned because they won LM. FIA nee Bernie Ecclestone went for the 3.5l homologated engine rule so that manufacturers could jump into F1.

In fact the Mazdas weren't even the fastest cars! The won because they had better reliability in 1991.


Funny, I always thought that the Mazda won because it completed more laps in 24 hours than the 3 Jaguars which finished behind it. I guess that wasn't the reason then.

The 3.5L engine rule was rather convenient don't you think? In one fell swoop, the only rotary engine ever raced was banned following the year it won. The ACO would have brought pressure to bear considering that these upstart Japanese dared to win their Frenchy motor race, after all the cars which qualified 3rd and 8th magically appeared on the front row in 1991.


Please tell David Richards that all future Aston Martins should be diesels.

Arguably, the green/eco card is nonsense.

High end sports cars and GTs are less likely to see far less mileage than A4 TDI company car.

High end sports cars and GTs which are under racing conditions are also more likely to be put through stresses that an A4 TDI company car is ever likely to go through.

If Dave Richards wants to win, then all future Aston Martins should be built to best exploit the rules which exist, if that means building a diesel, then so be it - Peugeot did.

Arguably a diesel has the highest thermal efficiency of any combustion engine and therefore should use less fuel; real world results should prove that to be right. Oops, they do? Hmmm. Arguably, science is nonsense then.

[I am evil Homer]

But diesels are core to Peugeots product range, they aren't to Aston. So it would be an utterly pointless and expensive exercise for them.

[wedge]

Funny, I always thought that the Mazda won because it completed more laps in 24 hours than the 3 Jaguars which finished behind it. I guess that wasn't the reason then.

The 3.5L engine rule was rather convenient don't you think? In one fell swoop, the only rotary engine ever raced was banned following the year it won. The ACO would have brought pressure to bear considering that these upstart Japanese dared to win their Frenchy motor race, after all the cars which qualified 3rd and 8th magically appeared on the front row in 1991.

Don't be fooled into looking at race results!

The Germans had the quicker cars.

Peugeot jumped onto the front row because they had 3.5l engines. Jag and Sauber M-B had problems with their 3.5l cars (to this day M-B are too embarrassed to talk about the C291!) so they reverted back to the Group C spec cars.

IIRC the car count was too low so the rules were rejigged so as not lose anymore cars. In effect 1991 was a crossover period for the new engine regs which debunks the urban - correction - the uneducated myth that rotary engines were banned.



High end sports cars and GTs which are under racing conditions are also more likely to be put through stresses that an A4 TDI company car is ever likely to go through.

Arguably a diesel has the highest thermal efficiency of any combustion engine and therefore should use less fuel; real world results should prove that to be right. Oops, they do? Hmmm. Arguably, science is nonsense then.


Errr


What's the chance of a DB9's mileage being the same as a A4 2.0 TDI after 3 years and therefore which car is more eco friendly/efficient?

[Rollo]

Don't be fooled into looking at race results!


Oh sorry. I thought that the whole point of a motor race was to see who can win. Oops.


What's the chance of a DB9's mileage being the same as a A4 2.0 TDI after 3 years and therefore which car is more eco friendly/efficient?

Nil.

A DB9 leaves the factory acheiving, 17.2mpg whilst an Audi A4 will do 55.2mpg (both combined cycles).
Even with a worst case scenario the A4 2.0 TDI would still produce better mileage than a DB9. In fact I would suspect that even a 20 year old A4 2.0 TDI would still produce better mileage than a DB9.
Therefore which car is more eco friendly/efficient? The A4 2.0 TDI.

Warning: Science Ahead.

Grant that the Diesel cycle is in principle less efficient than the Otto cycle, but because Diesel engines don't introduce fuel to the combustion chamber until it is actually ignited, Diesel engines aren't subject to knocking.
Therefore, Diesel engines are not limited in their compression ratios, and as such they pull back their thermal efficiencies so far, that in the real world a turbodiesel with the same capacity as a spark engine is about a third more efficient.
This is one of the reasons why they're use in trucks and generators.

[wedge]

Oh sorry. I thought that the whole point of a motor race was to see who can win. Oops.

The Mazda 787B was never the 'quickest' car so it was a misnomer that it was banned.

It wasn't as if it blew the opposition away on outright speed like that Toyota GT ONe which was a Group C that wrangled its way into GT-1 class.

But anyway, why do manufacturers go racing? Don't they have cars to sell? All very well Audi and Peugeot showing off how superb their TDI & HDI technology but what's the point of Aston racing diesels?


Nil.

A DB9 leaves the factory acheiving, 17.2mpg whilst an Audi A4 will do 55.2mpg (both combined cycles).
Even with a worst case scenario the A4 2.0 TDI would still produce better mileage than a DB9. In fact I would suspect that even a 20 year old A4 2.0 TDI would still produce better mileage than a DB9.
Therefore which car is more eco friendly/efficient? The A4 2.0 TDI.

Warning: Science Ahead.

Grant that the Diesel cycle is in principle less efficient than the Otto cycle, but because Diesel engines don't introduce fuel to the combustion chamber until it is actually ignited, Diesel engines aren't subject to knocking.
Therefore, Diesel engines are not limited in their compression ratios, and as such they pull back their thermal efficiencies so far, that in the real world a turbodiesel with the same capacity as a spark engine is about a third more efficient.
This is one of the reasons why they're use in trucks and generators.

Lets put this another way.

Which car is likely to have a higher mileage after 3 years, the DB9 or the A4 TDI? Which cars are you more likely to see on the roads?

[Rollo]

The Mazda 787B was never the 'quickest' car so it was a misnomer that it was banned.

Over 24 hours it completed the furthest distance, hence the reason it won. I never once said it was the "quickest", I said it was "the best". Obviously if it won the race over 24 hours, then it must have been,



But anyway, why do manufacturers go racing? Don't they have cars to sell? All very well Audi and Peugeot showing off how superb their TDI & HDI technology but what's the point of Aston racing diesels?

Good question. Why do they go racing? To show off the brand, to use the conditions as a laboratory, because they happen to like competing to stretch their engineers?

Obviously the point of any motor race should be to win. The point of Aston Martin racing diesels if they were going to would be to that end, but whinging to change to rules because they're simply not good enough to compete is a cop out.



Lets put this another way.

Which car is likely to have a higher mileage after 3 years, the DB9 or the A4 TDI? Which cars are you more likely to see on the roads?

The A4 TDI would have greater mileage, because of a whole host of factors such as running costs, insurance and because their owners wouldn't use them as a daily driver.
You're more likely to see more A4 TDIs on the roads after 3 years because they sell more of them in the first place.

[AndyRAC]

Manufacturers are in Motorsport to sell cars!!! By promoting their technology, etc
Aston Martin don't make diesels, so why would they race with one? The regs at the moment have been heavily favouring the diesels, and despite changes, this has continued.
What we need are a level playing field between petrol, diesel and hybrids - then we may get a number of new Manufacturers - Porsche are possibly showing interest in a hybrid.

[wedge]

The 3.5L engine rule was rather convenient don't you think? In one fell swoop, the only rotary engine ever raced was banned following the year it won. The ACO would have brought pressure to bear considering that these upstart Japanese dared to win their Frenchy motor race,

Can't blame the ACO - they used FIA regs in that era because LM24 was part of the World Sports Prototype Championship


Obviously the point of any motor race should be to win. The point of Aston Martin racing diesels if they were going to would be to that end, but whinging to change to rules because they're simply not good enough to compete is a cop out.

P1 is the premier class. But its a class within a class. There should be a level playing field at the very least. It's well know that without air restrictors the NA cars would be quicker.



The A4 TDI would have greater mileage, because of a whole host of factors such as running costs, insurance and because their owners wouldn't use them as a daily driver.
You're more likely to see more A4 TDIs on the roads after 3 years because they sell more of them in the first place.

On that basis GT/sportscars aren't really that bad if you only use them on a Sunday drive.

[harvick#1]

Audi has said that the new engine is gonna be a V6 Twin Turbo Diesel (so I guess they will stick with diesel even though during the 24h of LM they said it was gonna be something new)

and talks of the R18 becoming a Coupe, as Audi says the open cockpit is no longer an advantage because of the new pitstop rules

[Daniel]

If it's a coupe I may support audi

[AndyRAC]

If it's a coupe I may support audi

Are you sure?? I didn't think you liked VW Group cars... ;)

Dr Wolfgang Ulrich looks as though he prefers the Coupe option.

[Corrine]

Just got back from Le Mans, it was still a great race up to the last 50 minutes.

After 23 hours and 10 minutes of full on racing, competition was still there, the atmosphere was electric! Then the Aston went, oh well, another year to develop and return.

I have watched 24 heurs du Le Mans on TV, this is the first time I have attended, it certainly won't be the last!

[ioan]

Completely clueless and missing the point.

LM is not F1.

Aston Martin are not in the business of selling diesels so why bother?

How enlightening, or maybe not! :rolleyes:

AM want to compete against the LMP1 diesels? Than build a diesel, otherwise compete in LMP2 or GT class there are no diesels there. Or maybe they should just bugger of and shut up.

[ioan]

ACO might as well create a diesel class.

It looks like they already have one. No wait AM wants to win in that class with a petrol engine because beating a 9 times Le Mans winner team would be great publicity, however they can't build a better car so they are begging for help from the organizers! :down:

[ioan]

But diesels are core to Peugeots product range, they aren't to Aston.

Who cares?
Aston want to win Le Mans to prove that they can be better or only to promote cars that only 1% of us can buy anyway?!

IMO their business and marketing model is flawed.

[ioan]

Which car is likely to have a higher mileage after 3 years, the DB9 or the A4 TDI? Which cars are you more likely to see on the roads?

The better ones, Einstein.

[Rollo]

Can't blame the ACO - they used FIA regs in that era because LM24 was part of the World Sports Prototype Championship

Can blame the ACO; do blame the ACO. Just who won the event in 1992? Would it by any chance be a French car?

Why would the ACO and then the FIA suddenly suggest regulations which would allow Formula One engines in a Group C Cat 1 Le Mans car? That wouldn't have had anything to do with Jean Todt and Peugeot looking at a tilt in Formula One now would it?
It's all a bit strange how the 1993 World Sports Prototype Championship mysteriously collapsed after Jean Todt couldn't convince Peugeot to fund that Formula One challenge and thus took on the job at Ferrari.

Those are where all the pins lie; I'll let you set them all up again but I do ask, would it be beyond the French organisers of a French motor race, to re-jig the rules such that French car would win it?
Put simply, there was no way in Hades that that 905 could have competed at all unless they'd done it. The 1991 results bear that out.

[wedge]

Can blame the ACO; do blame the ACO. Just who won the event in 1992? Would it by any chance be a French car?

Why would the ACO and then the FIA suddenly suggest regulations which would allow Formula One engines in a Group C Cat 1 Le Mans car? That wouldn't have had anything to do with Jean Todt and Peugeot looking at a tilt in Formula One now would it?
It's all a bit strange how the 1993 World Sports Prototype Championship mysteriously collapsed after Jean Todt couldn't convince Peugeot to fund that Formula One challenge and thus took on the job at Ferrari.

Those are where all the pins lie; I'll let you set them all up again but I do ask, would it be beyond the French organisers of a French motor race, to re-jig the rules such that French car would win it?
Put simply, there was no way in Hades that that 905 could have competed at all unless they'd done it. The 1991 results bear that out.

Isn't all strange that a number of manufacturers raced in Group C. Jaguar, Merc, Toyota, why arent' they in F1? Oh, how about 3.5l engines!

Group C died because of the new engine rules. They were costly to implement because of the 3.5l limit and so manufacturers couldn't justify the costs so was it any wonder Peugeot dominated when near rivals like M-B and Jaguar left.

[wedge]

Or maybe they should just bugger of and shut up.

Like Ferrari and double decker diffusers? 1 year on from legality and they were still complaining!

[ioan]

Like Ferrari and double decker diffusers? 1 year on from legality and they were still complaining!

Yeah, like Ferrari who IMO are slipping down the competitiveness curve.

[Rollo]

so was it any wonder Peugeot dominated when near rivals like M-B and Jaguar left.

Mission accomplished for the ACO then; hence the reason why they needed to ban the rotary.

[wedge]

Mission accomplished for the ACO then; hence the reason why they needed to ban the rotary.

It was never the ACO. It was Bernie Ecclestone because of his ties with the FIA.

ACO to be fully happy to push for the new regs is hari-kari when there was a great risk of manufacturers leaving LM for F1, just for the sake of French victory?!

If you're going to accuse Peugeot/ACO of jingoism why did Peugeot run a car with Brits Mark Blundell and Derek Warwick?

[Rollo]

ACO to be fully happy to push for the new regs is hari-kari when there was a great risk of manufacturers leaving LM for F1, just for the sake of French victory?!

Absolutely. Who won the race in 1972 after the rules had to be changed after the 917K was banned? Would it by any chance be a French car?


If you're going to accuse Peugeot/ACO of jingoism why did Peugeot run a car with Brits Mark Blundell and Derek Warwick?

Who was the other driver? Come on now... were they French too by anychance? How about the other Peugeot? Perhaps it also had some French drivers?

[AndyRAC]

I thought it was commonly accepted that the WSC was becoming a threat to F1 – and action had to be taken. Conveniently, the FiA Promotions boss, decided to change the engine regs to 3.5L, the same as F1 – so Manufacturers could instead do F1, and not bother with WSC. Voila, and what happened?? Where is the WSC today?

[Rover V8]

Funny, I always thought that the Mazda won because it completed more laps in 24 hours than the 3 Jaguars which finished behind it. I guess that wasn't the reason then.

The 3.5L engine rule was rather convenient don't you think? In one fell swoop, the only rotary engine ever raced was banned following the year it won. The ACO would have brought pressure to bear considering that these upstart Japanese dared to win their Frenchy motor race, after all the cars which qualified 3rd and 8th magically appeared on the front row in 1991.




The 3.5L engine rule wasn't brought in because of the 'upstart Japanese daring to win' Le Mans, and the rotary engine certainly wasn't banned as a result of that win- unless Bernie Ecclestone is clairvoyant...

The 3.5 litre regs were first introduced at the beginning of the 1989 season, so were planned a good 2 years before Mazda's LM win

Like wedge said a few posts back, the rules were in transition from the old 'fuel formula' Group C to the new 3.5 litre/750kg rules-

IIRC if it hadn't been for the FIA allowing the older cars back in for one more season in 1991 because several of the manufacturers and most of the privateers had bailed out by the end of 1990, the Mazda rotary, like the turbos and Jag V12 would have already been outlawed

Instead, they were allowed back in for one more year, but with a tighter fuel restriction and a higher (1000kg) minimum weight limit.

Mazda, incidentally, were running under that because they'd negotiated themselves a concession from the FIA at the start of the year allowing them to race the 787B at a minimum of something like 830 or 850kg....

They might have been more reliable and have better fuel economy- they were also being allowed to run a lot lighter than the Jags and Mercs.

The Mazda wasn't a better car overall, it just happened that the particular circumstances of 1991 gave them a chance to compete for the overall win, and on the day they did a better job of exploiting that than Merc or Jag did

I'd agree with AndyRAC- the move to 3.5 litres (by the FIA, not the ACO) had nothing to do with favouring Peugeot (who weren't even competing in sportscars when the regs were first announced) and everything to do with Bernie trying to pull the manufacturers away from sportscars and into F1

[wedge]

The world economy was about to go belly up in the early 90s and the costs couldn't be justified - greatest example being the great failure of the Jag XJ220.

[BDunnell]

Let's face it, sports car racing has long been adversely affected by poorly thought-out rule-making. Look at the situation that allowed the (magnificent, of course) Porsche 917 to come about. That was as a result of efforts to make the cars slower and safer!

[wedge]

Let's face it, sports car racing has long been adversely affected by poorly thought-out rule-making. Look at the situation that allowed the (magnificent, of course) Porsche 917 to come about. That was as a result of efforts to make the cars slower and safer!

Can Am?

[boesel]

Hi everybody,
here is available a complete report about the 24 hours of Le Mans:
http://www.connectingrod.it/LeMansSeries/2010/LeMans24h/24h_eng.html