todays scuttlebutt

[SarahFan]

Vision racing has suspended operations.....

[EagleEye]

Vision racing has suspended operations.....

on hold

[Scotty G.]

Will probably become the "Team Menard" of this era.

Maybe they do a few other ovals, but I can see Vision becoming "Indy-only" and throwing all of their resources behind that.

[Scotty G.]

Say what you want about Tony George (and many of you have), but this is not good for the future of Indy Car Racing.

Indy Lights also takes a hit in this as well. I'd say its future is also in huge doubt, with no TV contract and no real basis to stay in business (since doing well there has never translated to moving up to the Indy Cars).

Carpenter turned into a fine oval racer, who was clean and all Indy Car drivers were comfortable running wheel-to-wheel with. Sucks for him that he might now turn into the Scotty Brayton or Jim Crawford of this era.

Bad news for Lauren George too.

And yes Ken, you might be right. The hope of December and January is now becoming uglier as we move into February. We could also see Carl Haas getting out soon (that team will certainly be much different if it answers the bell at all).

This sport is now looking a whole lot more like what Champ Car looked like towards the end of its life, then a real professional racing series.

No money. Lousy TV deal. Old equipment. Few drivers anyone care about. Poor car counts, with 3 teams having half the field. Revolving door of "leadership". Bad racing at most venues. Sound familiar?

I am sure though, that Angstadt (very little racing background) and Randy "The Bull Rider" (never attended a Indy Car race) will turn things around. :rolleyes:

At this point, maybe they'd be better off starting over from scratch and just running the Indy 500 the next 2 years, to prepare for 2012 with brand new leadership, new owners, new cars, new engines and a new "vision". Nobody would notice its gone as a racing series anyway. Just run Indy and try and put a kick-ass Indy 500 on (do whatever is possible to get NASCAR and Sports Car guys in the race) and try and build something that way.

[anthonyvop]

Vision Racing closing it's doors.

N/H/L rumored to be down to one car with Mutoh

[Chris R]

I think Scotty G. might be right on this one... it could be time to close up shop and start from scratch in a year or two - use the current stuff for Indy and go from these.....

what a tragic mess....

[TURN3]

Say what you want about Tony George (and many of you have), but this is not good for the future of Indy Car Racing.

Indy Lights also takes a hit in this as well. I'd say its future is also in huge doubt, with no TV contract and no real basis to stay in business (since doing well there has never translated to moving up to the Indy Cars).

Carpenter turned into a fine oval racer, who was clean and all Indy Car drivers were comfortable running wheel-to-wheel with. Sucks for him that he might now turn into the Scotty Brayton or Jim Crawford of this era.

Bad news for Lauren George too.

And yes Ken, you might be right. The hope of December and January is now becoming uglier as we move into February. We could also see Carl Haas getting out soon (that team will certainly be much different if it answers the bell at all).

This sport is now looking a whole lot more like what Champ Car looked like towards the end of its life, then a real professional racing series.

No money. Lousy TV deal. Old equipment. Few drivers anyone care about. Poor car counts, with 3 teams having half the field. Revolving door of "leadership". Bad racing at most venues. Sound familiar?

I am sure though, that Angstadt (very little racing background) and Randy "The Bull Rider" (never attended a Indy Car race) will turn things around. :rolleyes:

At this point, maybe they'd be better off starting over from scratch and just running the Indy 500 the next 2 years, to prepare for 2012 with brand new leadership, new owners, new cars, new engines and a new "vision". Nobody would notice its gone as a racing series anyway. Just run Indy and try and put a kick-ass Indy 500 on (do whatever is possible to get NASCAR and Sports Car guys in the race) and try and build something that way.

For all the stupid stuff you say, this by far is the best thing you've ever posted. Shut it down, start a new series and build from the ground up. I think you could use Indy, Long Beach, and maybe a few other races to put on some "side" shows in the meantime. Maybe bring the old Cosworths out to compete against the current Honda's and mix them up between the DP01's and current Dallaras...just to have a show while 2012 kicks off a real series.

[Blancvino]

For all the stupid stuff you say, this by far is the best thing you've ever posted. Shut it down, start a new series and build from the ground up. I think you could use Indy, Long Beach, and maybe a few other races to put on some "side" shows in the meantime. Maybe bring the old Cosworths out to compete against the current Honda's and mix them up between the DP01's and current Dallaras...just to have a show while 2012 kicks off a real series.

I said a few weeks ago this was starting to look like Champcar just before its demise. With the prospect of a bull rider CEO and the grandson completely gone, how do they get lipstick to stick on this pig? Ticket sales for the 500 are likely to really take a hit. If the 500 ticket sales take a hit, the party is OVER! If they try to shut down for a couple of years, Indy Car will NEVER get going again. It's is now or never.

[Scotty G.]

For all the stupid stuff you say, this by far is the best thing you've ever posted. Shut it down, start a new series and build from the ground up. I think you could use Indy, Long Beach, and maybe a few other races to put on some "side" shows in the meantime. Maybe bring the old Cosworths out to compete against the current Honda's and mix them up between the DP01's and current Dallaras...just to have a show while 2012 kicks off a real series.


I think I take that as a compliment. :s mokin:

Lets face facts. Nobody but a few of us on these message boards even know the sport still exists outside of a few weeks in May.

Forget hiring these CEO's (who have no racing background) and adding these stupid new street races (which tend to lose big money) and just run Indy, Long Beach, Texas, Toronto and Chicago for the next 2 years. Its about all but 3 of the teams in the sport can truthfully afford anyway.

Put your time and resources into putting on the best Indy 500 you can. Do whatever you need to do, to get a few Cup guys into the race the next 2 years (if you have to run it on Saturday or Monday, do it). Spend your money, to get new teams on the grid and see if you can get 45 cars battling for 33 spots again. For the sport to ever rebound, Indy has to be a REALLY big deal again with interesting storylines and much more interesting drivers. Get the drama up and get the month a buzz again, with the folks that ARE there instead of those that aren't.

Budgets will do down drastically, because of the greatly reduced race schedule. Might even lure Indy Lights teams or Atlantics teams or Star Mazda or USAC teams into the sport, for at least Indy. Or maybe a few show up for Long Beach and catch the racing fever.

Spend the rest of your time on the new car/package that will debut in 2012. Make sure by the time it rolls out, your teams can AFFORD it and your teams are economically solvent entities. Work your butt off, to find sponsors for the TEAMS first and the league 2nd. Maybe by the time 2012 comes around, ABC/ESPN might even want to be involved again for more then Indy or maybe even NBC gets into the act (with the Versus angle).

Either this, or NASCAR may come to the rescue.

[Lee Roy]

Either this, or NASCAR may come to the rescue.

Don't count on it.

[Mark in Oshawa]

OH just whistling past the graveyard is the theme now....

[SoCalPVguy]

Either this, or NASCAR may come to the rescue.

NASCAR would only buy it to shut it down and end the very small competition for sponsor dollars that it is.

[Mark in Oshawa]

NASCAR would only buy it to shut it down and end the very small competition for sponsor dollars that it is.

That might get them in to a courtroom with an anti-trust charge sitting on the table. Why would they bother to buy the IRL to kill it? It likely could disappear on its own, and the fact the IRL is around means the anti-trust provisions of US law are just less likely to be looked up in regards to NASCAR. To buy it up would to see it as a threat. They ceased seeing it as a threat in 1995.....when Tony got serious about the IRL.

[stephenw_us]

For now we just need to consolidate the Indy500 - create a new formula specifically for that race that attracts NASCAR and F1 teams to do a one off, make it also doable for independant garagiste types, and get everyone involved...restrict materials and make the engine accessible to all (anyone can build it)...

That would restore the race to it's former glory...

[Mark in Oshawa]

For now we just need to consolidate the Indy500 - create a new formula specifically for that race that attracts NASCAR and F1 teams to do a one off, make it also doable for independant garagiste types, and get everyone involved...restrict materials and make the engine accessible to all (anyone can build it)...

That would restore the race to it's former glory...
The problem is to make a car to race just one race doesn't justify what you get from the purse. A whole season of races can in theory make the investment in team and cars work. I nice idea, but there is a reason other indy car races became the "Championship Trail" and what became CART in the 80's. The cost of just running a race here and there isn't really feasbile with what it costs.

[MDS]

I have faith that it will in fact get better.

There's a whole lot of ideas being floated, some of them are just ideas, some are parts of rumors, a lot of it is people afraid for their jobs.

I feel for the people at Vision. I don't think anyone suspected the economy would be this bad this long, I know I didn't.

I think the key for this year is to get out of 2010 alive and build on the future. It is dark now, but there are potentially big things on the horizon, such as a move to NBC, and when the sport gets past this year it will prosper.

[nigelred5]

Open the 500 back up to any chassis that has been eligible for Champcar/ Indycar/GP2/F3000/A1GP, Superleague, GP masters, etc. in the last ten years. The chassis are all very similar in size and performance depending on what engine is/was used. Some may not be optimized for ovals, but could be made so. Just about all have had an engine spec somewhere in the 700hp range. Allow the same openness for engines. Any 4-12cyl between say 2 and 3.5 litres, turbo or NA and go from there. Lolas, Dallaras, Reynards, Panoz, Penske's, Swifts. I've always been in favor of a much more open engine rule.

If the 500 is going to stand alone again as it essentially did for many rears, the 500 needs to be an open invitational type race again that brings drivers, teams and even cars from all sorts of disciplines as a superbowl type event. Make it a show again. Make the weeks relevant again. Utilize the road course AND the oval. You want to see versatility? Make it a biathalon type event. Run a 250 mile road course event Friday or Saturday, and then run the traditional 500 mile oval race on Memorial Day.

It can't be any worse than what it's become.

Where's the Jimmy Clark Lotus in racing these days??

[FormerFF]

I feel for the people at Vision. I don't think anyone suspected the economy would be this bad this long, I know I didn't.


Recent history suggests that it takes a country three to five years to recover from a banking crisis. We are about 18 months into that period. It took about seven or eight years to recover from the Great Depression, but the actions taken by the Federal Reserve and the Federal Government were more appropriate this time.

[Scotty G.]

The problem is to make a car to race just one race doesn't justify what you get from the purse. The cost of just running a race here and there isn't really feasbile with what it costs.

I disagree.

If you cut out most of the current Indy Car races and just ran 4 or 5 races a year, that would cut team budgets in a major way.

One-off teams always USED to make things work for the Indy 500. Back in the 80's, you would get 45 car/driver combos at Indy and only had mid 20's car counts at the other CART events. So close to 40% of the Indy field were made up of "one-off" deals, either with "Indy-only" teams or extra cars from established teams (Foyt and Simon being the main owners who used to do this).

My theory is, with a bare-bones schedule for the next 2 years, you will cut prices sharply. Engine leases will have to go way down. Instead of needing $6 million dollars + to run the full season, teams/drivers would only need $2 or $3 million tops.

You can run Indy today, for $500K With older equipment the next 2 years, that price will not go up.

You are correct though, that the costs are still "out of whack" with the popularity and status of the sport now. When you can't draw flies and you only have 5 races on a mainstream network, why does it then still cost upwards of 8 million dollars to race the season? With old cars and engines and limited testing? Doesn't add up (and doesn't add up for sponsors, obviously).

Concentrate on building the Indy 500 back up FIRST. Do what you need to do, to give Stewart, Hornish, Montoya, Allmendinger, Busch, Mears, Gordon and Kahne the chance to compete at Indy. Get Bourdais into a car. Get Rice and Tracy in rides. See if Alex Gurney or Jon Fogarty are interested. Make the 500, the "Crown Jewel" of motor racing again. Not some event, where the Milka's and Marty's are taking up spots just because they are rich and there aren't enough entries to fill the field.

Do that for 2 years and if it works, the rest of the sport can be built up around it in the future. Continue to trundle along each year, just hoping some ride-buyers pay their way into the race and continuing to waste money on CEO's and marketing guru's and slogan's and all of this peripheal crap, will only make the rebuilding process a longer venture (and make it more likely the sport never rebounds at all).

[Wilf]

I disagree.

If you cut out most of the current Indy Car races and just ran 4 or 5 races a year, that would cut team budgets in a major way.

One-off teams always USED to make things work for the Indy 500. Back in the 80's, you would get 45 car/driver combos at Indy and only had mid 20's car counts at the other CART events. So close to 40% of the Indy field were made up of "one-off" deals, either with "Indy-only" teams or extra cars from established teams (Foyt and Simon being the main owners who used to do this).

My theory is, with a bare-bones schedule for the next 2 years, you will cut prices sharply. Engine leases will have to go way down. Instead of needing $6 million dollars + to run the full season, teams/drivers would only need $2 or $3 million tops.

You can run Indy today, for $500K With older equipment the next 2 years, that price will not go up.

You are correct though, that the costs are still "out of whack" with the popularity and status of the sport now. When you can't draw flies and you only have 5 races on a mainstream network, why does it then still cost upwards of 8 million dollars to race the season? With old cars and engines and limited testing? Doesn't add up (and doesn't add up for sponsors, obviously).

Concentrate on building the Indy 500 back up FIRST. Do what you need to do, to give Stewart, Hornish, Montoya, Allmendinger, Busch, Mears, Gordon and Kahne the chance to compete at Indy. Get Bourdais into a car. Get Rice and Tracy in rides. See if Alex Gurney or Jon Fogarty are interested. Make the 500, the "Crown Jewel" of motor racing again. Not some event, where the Milka's and Marty's are taking up spots just because they are rich and there aren't enough entries to fill the field.

Do that for 2 years and if it works, the rest of the sport can be built up around it in the future. Continue to trundle along each year, just hoping some ride-buyers pay their way into the race and continuing to waste money on CEO's and marketing guru's and slogan's and all of this peripheal crap, will only make the rebuilding process a longer venture (and make it more likely the sport never rebounds at all).

Gee, I wonder why no one thought of this before?

[beachbum]

The problem is to make a car to race just one race doesn't justify what you get from the purse. A whole season of races can in theory make the investment in team and cars work. I nice idea, but there is a reason other indy car races became the "Championship Trail" and what became CART in the 80's. The cost of just running a race here and there isn't really feasbile with what it costs.Finally, someone who understands the history of open wheel in the US. There was a time when many cars were build for Indy only. Most teams ran USAC the rest of the year with other equipment, but some NASCAR teams showed up at Indy such as the Woods brothers and Smokey Yunick. As you point out, as the cars moved from backyard specials to real "manufactured" race cars, that lead to the "Championship Trail" to spread the costs. But that also pushed out teams that could only run Indy because of other commitments.

Many people seem to think the clock can be rolled back to the 80's and 90's and all will be well again. That was a racing era world wide that won't happen again. Much of it was fueled by tobacco money and a strong economy. How much money was that? A close friend did promotional work for RJ Reynolds (Camel) in the late 80's when they sponsored AMA motorcycle racing. They spent 100's of thousands of dollars on a traveling promotional show that only came out at a handful of events, which was more than many team's full season racing budgets. It was a drop in the bucket for them, but that drop dried up very quickly.

TV changed a lot as well. Whatever series got to "big time" TV first was going to win because race attendance can never support a series. NASCAR put on a good show in many eyes and races almost every week, so it captured the more casual viewer. The "stock" cars seemed more relevant as well. Grand-Am only exists because of TV as some races look like the spectators are mostly crews and their families.

The mid-90's in CART boomed as racing in general was strong and the Europeans and Brazilians found the series as an alternative to F1 and other series dominated by manufacturers. The car companies pumped lots of money into the series as well. Those conditions no longer exist and many of the car companies are struggling just to exist.

There was much talk in that era that motor racing in any form may not last 20 more years as environmental pressures, changing entertainment interests of fans, and the pressure on companies to move promotional funding elsewhere would ultimately lead to the state we have today. Series like F1 are looking at "green" connections to seem more relevant and survive, and many series (not just the IRL) have become smaller niche sports that survive as long as the costs can be controlled to match the available money (which is dwindling, just as many predicted many years ago)

Racing is all about money. It is expensive and it doesn't matter how enthusiastic a person is, or the fervor of the fans. If there isn't outside money coming in, the funds dry up and teams go away. When the teams go away, so do the series.

[Lee Roy]

Most teams ran USAC the rest of the year with other equipment, but some NASCAR teams showed up at Indy such as the Woods brothers and Smokey Yunick.

The Woods brothers only came one time and served as the pit crew for Jim Clark at the behest of the Ford Motor Company. They did not bring a car or a driver. Trying to turn this into interest by NASCAR teams is an extreme stretch.

[Chris R]

AOWR has, for much of its history, been a sport of the rich and of "playboys" - i.e. - people with moderate to vast personal wealth who want to "go racing". Often these people have used their connections to get patronage from various sources that has often been presented as sponsorship but is usually a "favor" more or less... (Mike Boyle, Joel Throne, John Zink, Pat Patrick, Jim Gilmore......) The size of the sport has justified occasional forays by various manufacturers - but it seems like more often than not they have been disappointed (Ford in 1935, Studebaker, Cummins, etc...)...

It is only since CART that you could argue that AOWR became commercially viable - and that was quite fleeting as beachbum pointed out....

As much as I have loved AOWR and motor-sports in general, I cannot imagine it is in any way a commercially viable endeavor in today's world. Advertising impressions can be generated much more cost effectively through other means, engineering gains have become dubious at best, he risk of failure really mitigates any benefits of success (just ask Toyota, Honda, BMW etc...)...

The model for AOWR going forward must be that of a sport that can be supported merely by those who are interested in competing and with passion for the sport with minimal corporate support. As much as I enjoyed the CART product, the reality of the matter is that AOWR needs to be an American series with at most 1 "vacation" overseas every year or two (think the old Nassau speed weeks). There should be 10-12 races a season at most. They should be on ovals an road courses- as much as some folks don't like street courses, I think it is important to "bring the sport to the people" in a way only street racing can do...

Overall, the model for being a professional race car driver needs to change so that one can earn a living by racing in multiple series for multiple series (because NASCAR and F1 are going to head down this same road soon....) - none of this dedicated/restricted BS....

The cars need to be very imposing but very simple - lots of power, some sort of standard "safety cell", limited production, long life machines. perhaps no wings...... There is no longer any point in pretending they are technological marvels - realistically the Indy car peaked in the late 90's as a technological exercise and there is really nowhere for it to go since the human body can only handle so much speed/g-force.... and how entertaining will a car going 350mph really be...??? They can be impressive machines and the people that drive them can be impressive athletes through means other than technology... (I do not think NASCAR has the right formula in this area either - far to boring...)

Anyway, sorry for the long and disjointed missive......

[EagleEye]

I have faith that it will in fact get better.

There's a whole lot of ideas being floated, some of them are just ideas, some are parts of rumors, a lot of it is people afraid for their jobs.

I feel for the people at Vision. I don't think anyone suspected the economy would be this bad this long, I know I didn't.

I think the key for this year is to get out of 2010 alive and build on the future. It is dark now, but there are potentially big things on the horizon, such as a move to NBC, and when the sport gets past this year it will prosper.

I am glad you are optimistic, but reality points the other way. not trying to get in a knock down drag out on this, but things are really, really bad. In the industry here, things are being compared to the last days of CART.....

The IRL will not, repeat will not be on NBC. There is no interest, and the ONLY way it would happen is if ratings increase by 100%. Ask TA about that discussion, the series has not been mentioned in any future programming on NBC. The ratings fail to register, so for now it is a moot point.

Ironic that Vision is now out of business, considering that TG’s creation of the IRL resulted in max exodus of drivers, crews, engineers and entire companies. The damage left in his wake is simply amazing. Yet, it is not the team’s fault, and I hope they end up better than the majority of those who are completely out of racing.

Had TG started Vision first, and gained experience and then tried to get control in the early part of 2000 or so, things might be different. Now that the IRL is basically CART, (alas, without the sponsors, engine mfgrs, chassis mfgrs, American drivers, etc.) it is too bad he had to tear it down they way he did.

The Izod deal is great, as is the recent promotion (finally) of the series on TV. the brazil race may have about the same number of entries as the start of last year, but most team members are being told to start looking for jobs after Indy.

But, putting someone in charge who has not racing history or background, does not bode well for the future.

Full time confirmed as of 2/29/10:
Penske -3
Ganassi- 3
AA - 3
D&R -2 (Thank you Dennis and Larry!!!)
Foyt - 1
Fazzt- 1
LDR- 1
Panther- 1
HVM- 1

16 cars confirmed for full time DCR makes two more that should happen, for 18.

Rahal, Wilson, Moraes, and more out of rides (right now). I do not see much to be optimistic about, especially as I know of another crew who is about to hit the street.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Eagle Eye, you paint a bleak picture....

[MDS]

I am glad you are optimistic, but reality points the other way. not trying to get in a knock down drag out on this, but things are really, really bad. In the industry here, things are being compared to the last days of CART.....

I've heard a lot of that stuff too. If it goes away, it goes away. I'll miss it, but I can't do anything about it; I've already bought my tickets to the races I'm attending, and that's all I can do. So I might as well be hopeful and pray for the best because that's about all I can do. Negative energy and dwelling on the worst case scenarios never helped anyone get ahead.

If the worst case happens Long Beach will find a way to survive, maybe Barbara Boxer and Diane Finestine will bring in enough pork they' get F-1 back again, or maybe they use V8 Supercars, host DTM or GP2 Asia. Indy will be a vaulted stop on the NASCAR circuit and someday AOWR will come back.


The IRL will not, repeat will not be on NBC. There is no interest, and the ONLY way it would happen is if ratings increase by 100%. Ask TA about that discussion, the series has not been mentioned in any future programming on NBC. The ratings fail to register, so for now it is a moot point.

And you can say that, but the fact is you don't know what's been discussed behind the disclosure agreements at NBC. Unless you been in the room with Dick Ebersol when the possibility of the IRL has been discussed you don't know what their plans are and you're speaking out of turn.

Just because someone is willing to talk to you doesn't mean they know what they're talking about, and even if they know and are talking it doesn't mean they're being honest.

[NickFalzone]

And you can say that, but the fact is you don't know what's been discussed behind the disclosure agreements at NBC. Unless you been in the room with Dick Ebersol when the possibility of the IRL has been discussed you don't know what their plans are and you're speaking out of turn.

Just because someone is willing to talk to you doesn't mean they know what they're talking about, and even if they know and are talking it doesn't mean they're being honest.

Even having an honest sitdown with the current head of NBC today would not get you a 100% guaranteed answer to what they will be doing 6-12 months from now. And heck, who knows if current NBC management will even be there 6 months from now?

[EagleEye]

[quote="MDS"]I've heard a lot of that stuff too. If it goes away, it goes away. I'll miss it, but I can't do anything about it; I've already bought my tickets to the races I'm attending, and that's all I can do. So I might as well be hopeful and pray for the best because that's about all I can do. Negative energy and dwelling on the worst case scenarios never helped anyone get ahead.[\quote]

Awesome you are going to races! The fan base here remains fantastic. But even if every event were a sell out it is the TV ratings that are killing us. I have been wanting to post on what we can do. Until ratings improve, sponsors will look elsewhere...

[\quote]Barbara Boxer and Diane Finestine... [\quote]

Hopefully since the country now knows it is the failure of the legislative branch, these two will be long gone. Same for Pelosi. Can not wait until November for a proper house cleaning ....OhnoBama is also one and done in 2012. They do not have the ability to do anything for the LBGP.

I agree the LBGP is something unto itself and would continue in some fashion, unless BB, DF or any Dc politician gets involved.


[quote}And you can say that, but the fact is you don't know what's been discussed behind the disclosure agreements at NBC. Unless you been in the room with Dick Ebersol when the possibility of the IRL has been discussed you don't know what their plans are and you're speaking out of turn.[\quote]

I repeat: The IRL will not be on NBC. The only way that will happen is if ratings increase to measureable amounts OR they buy time. That is the basis everyone is working on and why getting the ratings up is so important. NBC has already reviewed programs that comcast brings to the table, and only one, the NHL, has ratings that they have some interest in. TA has done a great job in working to make something happen, but the network biggies are only interested in making money, money that comes from selling advertising, and the money is tied to ratings. Ebersol only has intetest in programming that makes money....they might bid on the Indy 500 after ABC's contract is up and if those ratings remains good, but other than that, the series will not see the light of day on NBC.

When CART was set to cancel the Phoenix race, I posted about that and was called a liar. I later posted about Las Vegas being axed, again liar, doon and gloom, etc. When Cottman left CART many teams started looking at the IRL. Teams were being told that there might not be enough money to finish the season,....we know how it all ended.

The season will start with close to the same amount of cars that started last year, maybe one or two less depending. Car counts might remain the same through the 500, then there will be a big drop off. If ratings do not improve, then only paying drivers can help keep the car counts up.

The comparisons to the end of the CART/Champcar are very valid.

Here are the positives going into the season:

Izod - Provides the money and opp to spread the word
Honda- Can not say enough about the support they provide
Firestone- Ditto
Earlier promotion - We are just now seeing commercials about the series. We need more from all sponsors, but this is a great start.


The bad: Just read all the news coming out of or about to come out of Indy.

[Scotty G.]

OhnoBama is also one and done in 2012.

This isn't another message board, where some blowhard mod there bestows his political leanings to the rest of the sheep.

Lets stick to racing.

[Jag_Warrior]

This isn't another message board, where some blowhard mod there bestows his political leanings to the rest of the sheep.

Lets stick to racing.

On this point, I fully agree with Scotty G. No politician is going to help the IRL, whether they're on the left or the right... nor should they. Either the series (finally) becomes commercially viable and finds success on its own, or it continues limping along and then dies.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Even having an honest sitdown with the current head of NBC today would not get you a 100% guaranteed answer to what they will be doing 6-12 months from now. And heck, who knows if current NBC management will even be there 6 months from now?

This is the same network that has all but destroyed the franchise that prints money called the Tonight Show. This is also the same network that thought the XFL was a good idea, and the same network that put Jay Leno into early retirement and then paid him MORE Money to come back at 10.

With all due respect, as much as I would love to see the IRL on network TV again, Having NBC do it doesn't exactly make me feel good....

[MDS]

the network biggies are only interested in making money, money that comes from selling advertising, and the money is tied to ratings. Ebersol only has intetest in programming that makes money

So they bought the rights to the Winter Olympics, which is expected to cost them $200 million, and would have lost money in a strong market why?

I'm not calling you a lair, and you may very well be right, but your passing off things as fact that you can't possibly know, unless you been in high-level meetings in NBC sports. SOP for any company making a purchase is not express interest until the latest possible point. If NBC wants Indy they're not going to state it while the contract has yet to expire, and they sure as hell don't want ABC to bid up the price for them. The smartest thing NBC could to is say it's not interested until the last moment, hope no other network wants it and then make a low-ball offer. Its how businesses work. Whatever their intentions are its in their best business interests to not act interested at this moment, so you'll have to excuse me if I don't think your sources are being candid.

Also, I know you're not lying about the doom and gloom thats going on in shops around Indy. I've been told by numerous sources that they expect at least one more team to not make the grid at Brazil. Of course its a different team each time, although Conquest is far and away the most mentioned name.

If the IRL fails, it fails. I can't change it, and I don't have tickets to any race after Indy. But if the IRL fails AOWR won't go away forever. I'm of the mind set that a four to eight year rest might be a good thing for the sport.

[Mark in Oshawa]

MDS...in theory NBC likes to make money, but I have read more than once they are losing money on the olympics

[EagleEye]

So they bought the rights to the Winter Olympics, which is expected to cost them $200 million, and would have lost money in a strong market why?

I'm not calling you a lair, and you may very well be right, but your passing off things as fact that you can't possibly know, unless you been in high-level meetings in NBC sports. SOP for any company making a purchase is not express interest until the latest possible point. If NBC wants Indy they're not going to state it while the contract has yet to expire, and they sure as hell don't want ABC to bid up the price for them. The smartest thing NBC could to is say it's not interested until the last moment, hope no other network wants it and then make a low-ball offer. Its how businesses work. Whatever their intentions are its in their best business interests to not act interested at this moment, so you'll have to excuse me if I don't think your sources are being candid.

Also, I know you're not lying about the doom and gloom thats going on in shops around Indy. I've been told by numerous sources that they expect at least one more team to not make the grid at Brazil. Of course its a different team each time, although Conquest is far and away the most mentioned name.

If the IRL fails, it fails. I can't change it, and I don't have tickets to any race after Indy. But if the IRL fails AOWR won't go away forever. I'm of the mind set that a four to eight year rest might be a good thing for the sport.

They certainly have over paid for the Olympics now and in the past, but their ratings actually register. Those for the IRL, do not even show up. NBC has not even discussed the IRL, because there are no ratings. Ratings bring dollars, and we just don;t have them...

Instead of going back and forth, mayber we could put our heads together and help the situation buy looking how we might be able to help improve ratings. Forget Versus, but we have a chance to get some ratings from the races on ABC. A 2 rating....now that would get some attention. If we could double the ratings, 2 for ABC, and over 1 for Versus(depending on how the DTV saga ends) then it would register and become a viable. That would bring the IRL to the table, so to speak.

I hate to be painting a bleak picture and maybe I am just looking at certain situations to close to home and seeing more drivers and crews on the street.

Izod is great. The commercials that have been running is also a great thing. DR and their annoucement tuesday, a very good thing!! Getting Rahal, and others signed and in cars would also go along way.

MDS, how about starting a thread on how we might be able to increase TV ratings. I think there are plenty of people here who would go the distance in working to make this happen. Maybe Chamoo can start the discussion. Maybe Starter.

We all want this to move forward and maybe we can work togther.

[bblocker68]

Standing by and hoping for the best. My emotional interest has been fading since the DirecTV/Versus squabble broke out and the D&G has been coming in like a thunder storm.

Things sure look a lot different than 2 season's ago......

[MDS]

3G's published phone number has been disconnected....

[EagleEye]

3G's published phone number has been disconnected....

They were in debt, and had money owed to them. That is why I never listed them in any updates.

Hopefully, DR's annoucement Tueaday will be a positive.

[Chris R]

3G's published phone number has been disconnected....

who are/were they??

[Lousada]

They were in debt, and had money owed to them. That is why I never listed them in any updates.


Who is 'they' and who is 'them'?? But you are saying Team 3G will not be back?

[MDS]

Not to be confrontational, but I know there is a good bit of talk about the IRL dropping off the Earth, so I thought I'd put together a number of reasons why 2010 isn't like the CART or CC bankruptcy.

There is a TV Deal in place: Honestly its not what we would like, but its in place and is paying the league, unlike Champ Car's time buy in 2008[/*:m:jlqtvtmu]
There is a named sponsor: Izod is doing a yeoman's job in promoting the league. They are doing everything you could ask of them to promote the IRL.[/*:m:jlqtvtmu]
There isn't two leagues: This cannot be repeated enough.[/*:m:jlqtvtmu]
The teams stand on there own: The IRL isn't underwriting any teams, so the IRL teams of today are stronger than the split teams of three years ago.[/*:m:jlqtvtmu]
The economy sucks: CC went belly up in relatively strong economic times, the IRL is struggling in the worst economy since the 1980s. Every form of motorsport is struggling. There are talks about merging Grand Am and ALMS into one series, when in 2006 Grand Am had almost 24 DP teams.[/*:m:jlqtvtmu]
There isn't a massive cost outlay coming for a year to two years. Unlike CC there isn't a new, costly chassis that the teams have to buy yet. If they have to extend the Dallara another year or two, they can.[/*:m:jlqtvtmu]
They have the Indy 500: CC never had anything like this, its a jewel that can be built on.[/*:m:jlqtvtmu]There is still a lot wrong, but I'm choosing to see the bright silver lining at the other side of this year. I've always said that this year will be a year of survival, and if the ICS can make it through, and I believe it can, hopefully it can start to turn the corner.

Several things have to happen this year:

Ratings must improve: No one expects them to reach a 1.0, but they need to show about 20 percent improvement this year to demonstrate growth. Given how horrible the ratings were last year this should be doable.[/*:m:jlqtvtmu]
The major teams need to survive: Rumors are out there that NHL, KVRT, and Luczo Dragon are all in trouble. These teams need to survive this year and beyond, because you can't replicate mid to front of pack teams easily.[/*:m:jlqtvtmu]
A number of events need to be financially successful: Most every event needs to at least break even, but especially Barber, and Edmonton and Toronto need to at least curb their losses in order to continue.[/*:m:jlqtvtmu]Still I believe in a brighter tomorrow and when the economy rebounds in late 2012 the ICS will be poised and ready to take full advantage.

[NickFalzone]

MDS, I agree with all your points, and they're points that needed to be made. The IRL in many ways is in better shape today than it was last year or the year before. On the other hand, it's still clearly struggling, and as part of that struggling, the series to one degree or another is being underwritten by HG folks. The concern is that unless things turn around soon towards profitability, the underwriting will stop and the IRL as we know it will go kaput. Lately, in between the good news for the league, there's been ominous news coming out of the George family. So I think the concern is that, in SPITE of real strides that the IRL has made, it may not be enough. None of us know what enough is, and maybe those paying the bills have not even decided on that themselves. But until the checkbooks start balancing themselves, there will be this concern that things are on the edge.