Current Powerplants in F1

[SGWilko]

Thinking about the 'did they or didn't they' thread that had us all bickering whether it was necessary or not to cut the Brawn chassis/floor to buggery in order to accommodate the Merc engine, does anyone have images showing all the different motors in close up so we can make our own informed decision as to how similar/different thay really are?

[Sonic]

Not sure if we'll be able to see the differences on a picture. But its fun anyway!

I typed ra808e into google and found this page;

http://blog.livedoor.jp/sennaforever/archives/297682.html

But I can't read a word of the script so who knows if its the actual motor I was looking for.

[SGWilko]

Not sure if we'll be able to see the differences on a picture. But its fun anyway!

I typed ra808e into google and found this page;

http://blog.livedoor.jp/sennaforever/archives/297682.html

But I can't read a word of the script so who knows if its the actual motor I was looking for.

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/01/no-equalising-of-engines-for-2010/

Bottom looks wider on the Merc if you ask me...

[wedge]

Better to see images of customer engines installed because of you have to take into account of the chassis floor, gearbox and rear suspension. They're interdependent hence the importance of the 'package'.

[SGWilko]

The bottom looks alot wider again on the Ferrari powerplant in comparison. The Honda engine was very narrow in the base which may explain the difficulties with mounting the Merc engine into a narrower gap. According to ioan and Mr Horner the engines are so similar that its fairly standard in the design/spec to use any available engine.
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2007/10/f2003-engine.jpg

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/imageBank/r/r28engine.jpg

http://img.worldcarfans.com/2009/9/medium/393079036.jpg


I'm no expert but they all look fairly different when looking at widths, and exhaust manifold alignment etc etc. I always assumed a manufacturer was given a specification and allowed to design an engine to the criteria set out by the governing body. Whatever they do within those constraints is up to them as long as it does not excede the stated guidelines. The Merc engine does look about as wide as the Ferrari, but around 80 to 100mm wider than the previous Honda entry.. :)

Very good images, thanks. However, should the Renault not have a large hole in the crank with the remnants of a con rod hanging out of it? ;)

I'm no expert

I quite agree.

[SGWilko]

I quite agree.

That's a first - well done....

Shouldn't you be doing something complicated with air?

That's a first - well done....

Shouldn't you be doing something complicated with air?

Not now I've retired.

You'll be telling us a man down the pub told you about it next.

Oh wait, you already did.

[ioan]

The bottom looks alot wider again on the Ferrari powerplant in comparison. The Honda engine was very narrow in the base which may explain the difficulties with mounting the Merc engine into a narrower gap.

The Mercedes looks as narrow as the Honda too, so unless they mounted a Ferrari engine (and we don't see the bottom of it on the pictures) that you say to be larger, than I don't see how you came to your conclusion.



I'm no expert but they all look fairly different when looking at widths,...

Nice assumption (I was expecting you to say just that anyway).
How can a 2.4 liter V8 block be bigger than another 2.4 liter V8 when they are designed to the same rules, have to be as light as possible and have the same revs/min?!
For a start the engines will have the same bore and stroke dimensions, and the need for less weight and a low CoG will make sure that the size of the blocks will be very similar.
What is different is how teams chose to package the hydraulics for the gearbox, and the cooling system, especially now that they gave up on KERS.

As far as the width of the engine blocks is concerned, given that they all have pretty much the same bore x stroke dimensions, and that the engines must have a 90degree V architecture having a wider engine would also mean a higher engine and thus a higher CoG, a huge NO in modern F1, given that after a full fuel tank it is the heaviest component of the car.

[SGWilko]

The Mercedes looks as narrow as the Honda too, so unless they mounted a Ferrari engine (and we don't see the bottom of it on the pictures) that you say to be larger, than I don't see how you came to your conclusion.



Nice assumption (I was expecting you to say just that anyway).
How can a 2.4 liter V8 block be bigger than another 2.4 liter V8 when they are designed to the same rules, have to be as light as possible and have the same revs/min?!
For a start the engines will have the same bore and stroke dimensions, and the need for less weight and a low CoG will make sure that the size of the blocks will be very similar.
What is different is how teams chose to package the hydraulics for the gearbox, and the cooling system, especially now that they gave up on KERS.

As far as the width of the engine blocks is concerned, given that they all have pretty much the same bore x stroke dimensions, and that the engines must have a 90degree V architecture having a wider engine would also mean a higher engine and thus a higher CoG, a huge NO in modern F1, given that after a full fuel tank it is the heaviest component of the car.

Strewth, even the Iraqi foregin minister relented about the invasion of tanks in the end...

There is a large plate on the base of the Merc engine that, surprisingly, isn't present on the Honda.

I can easily imagine this would make accommodating the Merc quite a headache without the use of a Dremmel Multi.......

[SGWilko]

You'll be claiming you once worked in F1 next.. :p

He, apparently, was responsible for the ultra successful double floor Ferrari in, I think, '91.....

There was so much drag, the wind really did go swish, as all the other cars went by.......

He, apparently, was responsible for the ultra successful double floor Ferrari in, I think, '91.....

Afraid not....I was working on something else that year....

http://www.fd3s.net/787B/index.html

[SGWilko]

Afraid not....I was working on something else that year....

http://www.fd3s.net/787B/index.html

I am genuinely impressed.

Can you point out the morons at the fence for me - I want to see if I am there........

[SGWilko]

I think ioan is probably right if I'm honest. All F1 engines are virtually the same and its no wonder so many teams are buying customer engines as developing an engine themselves is a complete and utter waste of money when you can buy one off the shelf.

The transcript where Ross Brawn explained that the Merc was significantly larger than the Honda unit and proved problematic, highlights something I have thought for several years. He is a liar pure and simple, and I accept ioans explanation. Peace Brethrens... :s mokin:

Cynicism? That's not like you..... ;)

[ioan]

I am genuinely impressed.

Can you point out the morons at the fence for me - I want to see if I am there........

Can't you just stop trolling?!

You are slowly but surely getting down to henners level and I am not sure why you are doing it.

[edv]

Tamb...as a rotor-head, I'm impressed!
I'd love to have that 26B in my FD3S, but it would be tough to fit. Couldn't afford it either, as the eccentric shaft in that motor supposedly would cost over $100,000 !
Would love to see rotary engines in F1.

[henners88]

Can't you just stop trolling?!

You are slowly but surely getting down to henners level and I am not sure why you are doing it.
Err excuse me, how do I come to be insulted in your post?? :confused:

[SGWilko]

Can't you just stop trolling?!

You are slowly but surely getting down to henners level and I am not sure why you are doing it.

Permit me to point out that I am not trolling, just proving a point....

[SGWilko]

Err excuse me, how do I come to be insulted in your post?? :confused:

I think you may have touched a nerve with our friend from the east... :D

[henners88]

I think you may have touched a nerve with our friend from the east... :D
If thats what I get for agreeing with him then I'm at a loss.. :(

[ioan]

Permit me to point out that I am not trolling, just proving a point....

What point?! ;)

[SGWilko]

What point?! ;)

You made it for me in the post you made about trolling.