WRC vs IRC

[GigiGalliNo1]

Hi everyone, not sure where but thought to post this question here:

In the year to come; 2011 will see the S2000 era of cars in the WRC.

Citroen and Ford - and read that Abarth, Peugeot, Skoda etc would/could join the championship....

But on another note... the IRC have got S2000 cars competing + Production cars Subaru's and Mitsubishi's... other words similar to PWRC.

So if the WRC in future will be only S2000 cars... and the IRC already is mostly S2000 cars... then will the two championships continue separately or could they merge into one? I know Eurosport is IRC and North One is WRC but they're both FIA as well? (please confirm on this).

I've read that Mikko will be doing Monte in a Fiesta and Loeb won't be as the DS3 isn't ready yet - this gives Mikko an advantage is the Monte will be back in 2011's calendar.

Yes I know i'm going on still - ok so if 2011 will be WRC S2000 only - IRC S2000 only then drivers can mix between the championships no? Earn points in each as well as Manufacturers.... unless it merges... which it might or might not!

Just my two cents but question as well.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Also a thought and question here - S2000's are in for 20101...

What will the privateers drive? Citroen to give DS3 to P. Solberg? M-Sport to give Fiesta's to Henning and Wilson and Munchi's? Thus this needing more teams, drivers and cars for the future of the WRC?

It still might be a Citroen vs Ford championship...

[Francis44]

I dont think you are correct, the S2000 will not be in the WRC 2011 championship, the 2011 WRC cars will be 1.6T, and correct me if im wrong, but I think this was already decided by the FIA.

[MJW]

I have no proof only what I personally beleive but I think Jean Todt will not allow WRC and IRC to remain in 2011. I anticipate the 2011 WRC calendar will start off with Monte Carlo. I guess Citroen, Ford, Prodrive (Mini or Mazda) will be present, possibly Tommi Makinen Racing with a 1.6T Subaru, and in 2012 VW will join WRC
IRC will fade away in name, but the spirit of IRC, longer routes more freedom in formats will be taken on by WRC and even Safari will be back.
I also expect Loeb to move to endurance racing after winning his 7th wrc title.
2011 will be the Mikko and Ogier era, as a few of the current wrc car driving lot move off to new pastures.

[GigiGalliNo1]

OH CRAP

I thought WRC will have S2000 cars.. and not 1.6T

SORRY.

[GigiGalliNo1]

So is the S2000 era going to DIE? So why the development of S2000 cars with so many manufactures? Peugeot, Abarth, Skoda, Proton, VW?

What is the Fiesta that is competing in the IRC in Monte with Mikko? 1.6T? or S2000? That is why it's confusing. So will the 2011 season have WRCars as 1.6T and S-WRC be S2000 cars? Sandell in S2000 Skoda for 2010/11???

[Francis44]

I think factories can easily change a S2000 to a 1.6T specification car, in fact the DS3 is running already in a 1.6T, and that's probably why they aren't taking part in any rally this year with it. M-Sport will later make all the necessary changes to the car but they are interested in making money selling the Fiesta in S2000 spec so they can make some money.

[J.Lindstroem]

Do you guys think that the current S2000 cars will work as the "sub-class" to the Wrc? I mean like the production championship today? So that we would have a Wrc-championship, a S2000 championship and a S1600 championship in 2011? Will the PWRC be ditched?

[bluuford]

PWRC definitely remains. It will be still much cheaper category. These cars are still much cheaper to buy and maintain and not much slower to compare with the current S2000 cars and new 33m restrictor rules


As far as I understood 1.6T will be based on s2.0 car, only new engine and additional turbo. So, development costs for the current s2000 owners cannot be too big.

No more S2000 cars with 2.0 engine is allowed to homologate from 2011 so there is no place for SWRC and IRC with the current regulations. They can use old cars as long as they are available.

Most probably JWRC remains as well but this class is going to ban S1600 cars as they were too expensive. They will be replaced by much cheaper R2 and R3 cars. Similar to IRC 2WD group. At the same time FWD cars are good place to learn for young drivers.

[PLuto]

We will see, what will be in the future. But I think next year will stay both - IRC and WRC. And also high people at FIA dont believe thath WRC will be higher (due to television coverage) and they are trying to find a solution how to "save" WRC...

[gravelman]

I have no proof only what I personally beleive but I think Jean Todt will not allow WRC and IRC to remain in 2011. I anticipate the 2011 WRC calendar will start off with Monte Carlo. I guess Citroen, Ford, Prodrive (Mini or Mazda) will be present, possibly Tommi Makinen Racing with a 1.6T Subaru, and in 2012 VW will join WRC
IRC will fade away in name, but the spirit of IRC, longer routes more freedom in formats will be taken on by WRC and even Safari will be back.
I also expect Loeb to move to endurance racing after winning his 7th wrc title.
2011 will be the Mikko and Ogier era, as a few of the current wrc car driving lot move off to new pastures.

1.6T Subaru? Do you know something the rest of us don't? Has my namsake pulled off a masterstroke over in Finland?

[pettersolberg29]

2011 will be too soon for Ogier, although I know that's not your point! However I do agree that the new era i.e. 2011-2020 will be dominated by Ogier and Mikkelsen. I see no-one else with the potential that these two have.

[Simmi]

I have no proof only what I personally beleive but I think Jean Todt will not allow WRC and IRC to remain in 2011. I anticipate the 2011 WRC calendar will start off with Monte Carlo. I guess Citroen, Ford, Prodrive (Mini or Mazda) will be present, possibly Tommi Makinen Racing with a 1.6T Subaru, and in 2012 VW will join WRC
IRC will fade away in name, but the spirit of IRC, longer routes more freedom in formats will be taken on by WRC and even Safari will be back.
I also expect Loeb to move to endurance racing after winning his 7th wrc title.
2011 will be the Mikko and Ogier era, as a few of the current wrc car driving lot move off to new pastures.

I like the sound of this. I dont think the IRC will last that much longer. It was a stop-gap and a wake up call that will allow the WRC to move forward.

They need to kill the IRC. Make friends with Eurosport and try to do a deal to bring their brand of coverage (albeit with a bit more gloss) to the WRC.

1.6T WRC // PWRC // R2/R3 JWRC - sounds good to me.

In all seriousness what manufacturer could Tommi Makinen Racing bring to the WRC?

[MJW]

In all seriousness what manufacturer could Tommi Makinen Racing bring to the WRC?

SUBARU

[Tomi]

IRC will live just as long someone is interested to pay the bill, and Eurosport is not doing so well, no one or nobody is trying to kill it or need it killed.

[Simmi]

IRC will live just as long someone is interested to pay the bill, and Eurosport is not doing so well, no one or nobody is trying to kill it or need it killed.

Don't you think the FIA/ISC would prefer if it wasn't stealing headlines/manufacturers away from the WRC though? They might want to see it merged or removed.

[Tomi]

Don't you think the FIA/ISC would prefer if it wasn't stealing headlines/manufacturers away from the WRC though? They might want to see it merged or removed.

No i dont, IRC is a new serie, but soon you will see that the same law of business is there too, and car brands will take off, soon as participating becomes an burdon.
Also its impossible to merge, I belive that when Eurosport call it a day, the French might try to create some other small serie in Central Europe.

[OldF]

1.6T Subaru? Do you know something the rest of us don't? Has my namsake pulled off a masterstroke over in Finland?

In the issue no 1/2010 of Vauhdin Maailma there’s an interview with Tommi and he says he’s interested in running a WRC team and Subaru has a suitable 1,6T engine but that’s all. TMR has 2500 sqrm new facilities and at the moment they’re building about 20 Subaru N-group cars per year of which about 90% are exported. He also says that the “signals” from Japan also tells that Subaru will put efforts on group N.

A 2011 WRC will be a S2000 – 2000cc engine + 1,6T engine and a gearbox similar used at the moment in S2000 cars that can cope with the higher torque.

[J.Lindstroem]

We sure do have an exciting future ahead!

[RS]

I like the sound of this. I dont think the IRC will last that much longer. It was a stop-gap and a wake up call that will allow the WRC to move forward.

They need to kill the IRC. Make friends with Eurosport and try to do a deal to bring their brand of coverage (albeit with a bit more gloss) to the WRC.


Then maybe they should have given the promoter contract to Eurosport instead of North One...

[AndyRAC]

Then maybe they should have given the promoter contract to Eurosport instead of North One...

Mm, not sure about that. Look at the WTCC, struggling - while Eurosport give them plenty of coverage, World Championships need to be on normal TV, like F1 is.

[Simmi]

Mm, not sure about that. Look at the WTCC, struggling - while Eurosport give them plenty of coverage, World Championships need to be on normal TV, like F1 is.

I wouldn't want to trust the running of my favourite championship to Eurosport. No chance. Even before the money problems, with all their various commitments they surely spread themselves too thin to effectively promote something.

[RS]

Mm, not sure about that. Look at the WTCC, struggling - while Eurosport give them plenty of coverage, World Championships need to be on normal TV, like F1 is.

If Eurosport were the promoter it wouldn't mean the championship could only be on Eurosport.

[N.O.T]

nice...more "fortune tellers" threads please....and why stay on 2011 lets have some outrageous assumptions about the years to come as well...in 2356 for example...what about then ??

are you guys with all those junk posting doing it on purpose ??? or it comes naturally out of yourselves?

and to answer some of those "not so smart" questions.... name a driver that will do a 25+ races per season and a manufacturer with the money to support it !!!!

[Brother John]

IRC will live just as long someone is interested to pay the bill, and Eurosport is not doing so well, no one or nobody is trying to kill it or need it killed.

Why not the current S2000 cars in SWIRC as IRC and S1600T as WRC cars?
:D

[Langdale Forest]

I don't follow the IRC, but I might start this year.

[noel157]

I don't follow the IRC, but I might start this year.


Please don't. It's really boring and certainly not cool. You wouldn't like it. Best just to stick to WRC, much more hip and more exciting.

[gravelman]

Please don't. It's really boring and certainly not cool. You wouldn't like it. Best just to stick to WRC, much more hip and more exciting.

yeah theres a chance of more than 3 drivers winning a rally, not to be recommended :D

[Langdale Forest]

Please don't. It's really boring and certainly not cool. You wouldn't like it. Best just to stick to WRC, much more hip and more exciting.

The cars in the current WRC sound boring, like a mouldy crumpet infact. :mad:

[macksrallye]

The only things that the IRC is missing is the name "World Rally Championship" & a couple of iconic events that the WRC has held onto (eg: 1000 Lakes).

The competition between drivers is better in IRC. The event formats are better in IRC. The cars sound magnificent in the IRC. The TV coverage is better in IRC (although I admit it probably doesn't reach as many people outside europe).

The WRC is too far out of reach for people to aspire to. Back in the late 70's & early 80's the cars didn't cost as much as transporting them around the world for 12 months, the same as in the GrpA era. The problem with the WRC is that the rules & regs mean that manu's & privateers need to spend stupid amounts of money to have a go. Even people with seemingly endless money behind them dropout due to funding (Novikov & Rautenbach anyone). Surely that should tell North ISC or what/whoever they are now that there is a problem. Wake-up, look at what the IRC have been able to do purely because people aren't happy with the WRC. It's about time rallying took a few steps back & tried again.

[AndyRAC]

The only things that the IRC is missing is the name "World Rally Championship" & a couple of iconic events that the WRC has held onto (eg: 1000 Lakes).

The competition between drivers is better in IRC. The event formats are better in IRC. The cars sound magnificent in the IRC. The TV coverage is better in IRC (although I admit it probably doesn't reach as many people outside europe).

The WRC is too far out of reach for people to aspire to. Back in the late 70's & early 80's the cars didn't cost as much as transporting them around the world for 12 months, the same as in the GrpA era. The problem with the WRC is that the rules & regs mean that manu's & privateers need to spend stupid amounts of money to have a go. Even people with seemingly endless money behind them dropout due to funding (Novikov & Rautenbach anyone). Surely that should tell North ISC or what/whoever they are now that there is a problem. Wake-up, look at what the IRC have been able to do purely because people aren't happy with the WRC. It's about time rallying took a few steps back & tried again.

Good post, I agree!!
Though to be fair, it seems that North One/ISC have finally cottoned on to this, however, I'm slightly concerned by the supposed cost of the S2000/ 1.6T cars.

[milly]

In the issue no 1/2010 of Vauhdin Maailma there’s an interview with Tommi and he says he’s interested in running a WRC team and Subaru has a suitable 1,6T engine but that’s all. TMR has 2500 sqrm new facilities and at the moment they’re building about 20 Subaru N-group cars per year of which about 90% are exported. He also says that the “signals” from Japan also tells that Subaru will put efforts on group N.

A 2011 WRC will be a S2000 – 2000cc engine + 1,6T engine and a gearbox similar used at the moment in S2000 cars that can cope with the higher torque.

I believe that if Subaru does anything it will be with its own operation, then getting somebody like TMR to support with customer programmes. However, their plans are at a very, very, very early stage - and they will not go back to Prodrive after last time.

[GigiGalliNo1]

A 2011 WRC will be a S2000 – 2000cc engine + 1,6T engine and a gearbox similar used at the moment in S2000 cars that can cope with the higher torque.

Wait, so next year the WRC will be only 1.6t.... and SWRC will be the S2000 cars... (???)

So why you say that in 2011 both cars/class of engines will compete in the WRC as a whole? So that means the DS3 and Fiesta will change to an S2000 spec engine so they can compete rather than one with a 1.6t and the other S2000 spec? CORRECT?

Why the confusion!?

[Langdale Forest]

So next year the IRC will have more powerful cars?


I can see the IRC killing off the WRC in a few years time so that will ruin all the WRC statistics I guess.

[EavesFan09]

As many seem to be in favour of the IRC as the WRC. Almost 50/50 I'd say.

But how can you enjoy a series if you cannot see coverage of it? The IRC is all very well and good being on Eurosport but the IRC won't and doesn't attract people who don't have SKY. Almost all TV's now it seems come with Freeview built-in so the WRC's coverage on Dave where they can see it is far more tempting than the IRC's coverage on Eurosport where they cannot see it.

[AndyRAC]

Personally, I can see Jean Todt taking action and getting the power brokers between both series together, and banging heads. Both have good and bad points - put all the best points together and make the WRC a fantastic series........

....oh wake me up, I'm dreaming.

[Sulland]

Personally, I can see Jean Todt taking action and getting the power brokers between both series together, and banging heads. Both have good and bad points - put all the best points together and make the WRC a fantastic series........

....oh wake me up, I'm dreaming.

Yes, but the tragedy here is that FIA pracically kill off S2000 as a class next year. I do not think that is the way to keep momentum for rally !

[EavesFan09]

Yes, but the tragedy here is that FIA pracically kill off S2000 as a class next year. I do not think that is the way to keep momentum for rally !

We don't know for sure till it happens. Yes we will see slower cars because of the decrease from 2000cc to 1600cc and in horsepower from 360-340 to 270-290 but what I like is we could have mixed surface stages.

But in a press conference last year Max Mosley was quizzed once or twice on S2000. I don't know if this is important or is relevant to 2011 but just thought you may like to see the conference and look at the questions concerning S2000.

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressinformation/wrcpressinfo/portugal/Pages/wrc_conference.aspx

[Sulland]

Yes but this was from before they decided to go 1600T, and that no new S2000 with todays 2000NA engine would be homologated from 2011 onwards that will kill the S2000 cars of today, where many manufacturers have build cars. The first one, Abarth have jumped ship already, and we dont know how many will build a 1600T engine to rally on in 2011.

In my opinion FIA should continue the R-Class trail and complete it with R4 as a 4wd simple class, maybe the new 1600T, but a simpler version than R5 that will be the new WRCar, also 1600T. But this will effectively kill todays Gr N (N4) and S2000, that is no good either.

That is why FIA need to plan the new classes from R1 to R something, and implement from a given year - and to say that for 5 years this will be the case, to give stability.

Then IRC can from the same implementation year run with the new R4 class, so WRC can keep the top class for themselves !

[GigiGalliNo1]

So no more S2000 will be homologated from 2011!? So no more IRC?

[RS]

So no more S2000 will be homologated from 2011!? So no more IRC?

Doesn't neccesarily mean no more IRC because they can use cars homologated before 2011 (like WRCars this year are 2009 homologation), but eventually yes, they will have to find a new car formulae.