Mikko Hirvenon, Good chance or winning next season!?

[WRCMAD Sean]

The season has been a epic battle between loeb and Hirvenon, with it being very tight at the end. Who it betting that Mikko has a good chance of winning this season?

[JFL]

Hirvenon will probably win something somewhere.. ;) We have to wait and see about Hirvonen... Lets hope for the best ;)

[N.O.T]

the amount of tarmac events narrow his chances but i think on gravel he could win some battles if he choses to risk and not act like a scared chicken like he did last year.

[teufel]

the amount of tarmac events narrow his chances but i think on gravel he could win some battles if he choses to risk and not act like a scared chicken like he did last year.

I don't believe that Seb makes the same amount of mistakes this year as last, so i think Mikko will win 3-4 rounds, and that seems not enough for the wdc...

[Langdale Forest]

Mikko will probably win the championship in 2011.

[Simmi]

I would really love them to go back to the old style reverse top 10 starting order on day 2 and 3. Then I think we would get more of a straight fight between the two guys and it would be more about their pace than tactics.

Like NOT said the amount of tarmac hurts Mikko. Normally he will always lose four points on these rounds. UNLESS Sordo wins one? He's knocking on the door.

Mikko HAS to win Sweden IMO plus it's arguably the only place Ford could hope to get a 1-2 on pure pace. But we shall see.

[Wim_Impreza]

.

[Wim_Impreza]

He has no chance with the 4 tarmac events and Hirvonen is to happy with a second place. He prefers to early for a second place above a fight with Loeb for the victory. In my opinion Hirvonen is overrated as a driver, he isn't good enough to win a WRC title when Loeb is still driving.

It will be again the same boring year as 2009.

[Tom206wrc]

The season has been a epic battle between loeb and Hirvenon, with it being very tight at the end. Who it betting that Mikko has a good chance of winning this season?


Yep, HirvenONE will win the CRW championship against Oelb :D

[grugsticles]

He has no chance with the 4 tarmac events and Hirvonen is to happy with a second place. He prefers to early for a second place above a fight with Loeb for the victory. In my opinion Hirvonen is overrated as a driver, he isn't good enough to win a WRC title when Loeb is still driving.

It will be again the same boring year as 2009.

Agreed.
Hirvonen while being Fords number 1, just isnt as good as Loab.
I even think Latvala, Ogier, and Meeke are all significantly faster but either havent been given the oppertunity/coaching they deserve or are just around the corner from being the favorite to win rallies.

I remember Hirvonen at Subaru in ?02?, not a hugely rated driver. Then in ?03? in the privately entered Focus, 1 or 2 good results in events of attrition, not speed.
For sure he has improved dramatically but not to the point where he will be remembered throughout rally history.

So, Loab for the Title again, 1st win for Sordo (prob in Spain), and strong performances from the Citroen Junior Team.

[Simmi]

Agreed.
Hirvonen while being Fords number 1, just isnt as good as Loab.
I even think Latvala, Ogier, and Meeke are all significantly faster but either havent been given the oppertunity/coaching they deserve or are just around the corner from being the favorite to win rallies.

I remember Hirvonen at Subaru in ?02?, not a hugely rated driver. Then in ?03? in the privately entered Focus, 1 or 2 good results in events of attrition, not speed.
For sure he has improved dramatically but not to the point where he will be remembered throughout rally history.

So, Loab for the Title again, 1st win for Sordo (prob in Spain), and strong performances from the Citroen Junior Team.

I think you underestimate the pace of Hirvonen really. To say people like Ogier and Meeke are faster is a bit wide of the mark. You mean '04 and '05 for your examples. That was a long time ago Mikko has significantly improved since then. He has pace, but in his time as a loyal number 2 at Ford he learnt the importance of finishing rallies. He would be world champion but is coming up against the greatest driver in the history of the sport.

[Barreis]

Hirvonen is a good guy but it's a shame that he came into subaru WRC seat (2004) instead of C.McRae with paid seat.. That moment our sport start to go down very badly..

[EavesFan09]

Never seen the WRC with as much interest as I will be this year but theirs a lot of digs at Mikko and the lack of any chances anywhere of toppling Loeb. But you look at how much Loeb and Citroen do seem to dominate (even from a far distance), I see few over the last 8 years, never mind currently, who will ever get into their class.

[grugsticles]

I think you underestimate the pace of Hirvonen really. To say people like Ogier and Meeke are faster is a bit wide of the mark. You mean '04 and '05 for your examples. That was a long time ago Mikko has significantly improved since then. He has pace, but in his time as a loyal number 2 at Ford he learnt the importance of finishing rallies. He would be world champion but is coming up against the greatest driver in the history of the sport.
Perhaps you are correct and I do underestimate Mikko, but I stick to my belief that he would be shown up if the WRC these days was as competitive as it was early in the decade regardless or not if Loab were driving then.

[Brother John]

He has no chance with the 4 tarmac events and Hirvonen is to happy with a second place. He prefers to early for a second place above a fight with Loeb for the victory. In my opinion Hirvonen is overrated as a driver, he isn't good enough to win a WRC title when Loeb is still driving.

It will be again the same boring year as 2009.

Mikko overrated? I think that the difference is between the Ford Focus the better Citroën C4. ;)
Yes certain has Mikko Hirvonen a chance to win a WRC title this year.
When he prefers sometimes to go for second place is not bad, there was only 1 point difference in the WRC 2009!!! :p :

[serial jeff]

I would really love them to go back to the old style reverse top 10 starting order on day 2 and 3. Then I think we would get more of a straight fight between the two guys and it would be more about their pace than tactics.

Like NOT said the amount of tarmac hurts Mikko. Normally he will always lose four points on these rounds. UNLESS Sordo wins one? He's knocking on the door.

Mikko HAS to win Sweden IMO plus it's arguably the only place Ford could hope to get a 1-2 on pure pace. But we shall see.

I agree completely. IMO Mikko is as good as Seb on gravel, but the tarmac is going to be bad news... I don't think Sordo will win any of them either with Citroen's team orders.

It'd be helpful if JML could get between Mikko and Seb in Sweden and Finland, but counting on JML to do anything is a recepie for disappointment.

[RS]

I think Mikko's year was 2009, but he blew it. Maybe when the new cars come or Loeb retires...

I thought Mikko would always be the "perfect no.2" but he has improved a lot and is 2nd best in the WRC currently, no question. He's also good on tarmac, just not quite good enough.

Mikko could take one tarmac win this year though, provided it is covered in snow and ice in France next week :)

[Rallyper]

Yeah, maybe Loeb wont do as many mistakes this year, but his car will, meaning the car cant be as reliable as it has been. So it will let Loeb down a few times and MW will not give away any points either, so - at the end MH has a good chance in 2010 being WDC.

[Simmi]

Yeah, maybe Loeb wont do as many mistakes this year, but his car will, meaning the car cant be as reliable as it has been. So it will let Loeb down a few times and MW will not give away any points either, so - at the end MH has a good chance in 2010 being WDC.

That's kind of clutching at straws hoping that an unchanged car becomes less reliable. But maybe!

[Ghostwalker]

Mikko overrated? I think that the difference is between the Ford Focus the better Citroën C4. ;)
Yes certain has Mikko Hirvonen a chance to win a WRC title this year.
When he prefers sometimes to go for second place is not bad, there was only 1 point difference in the WRC 2009!!! :p :

well that is because Miko didn't have to challenge for 1st because
a 2nd place is only 2p less then 1st.

Imo the two changes that needs to be made is reversed starting order and
more points to the rally winner.

Imo the winner should be rewarded with atleast 12p.
Then the difference would be 4p and perhaps Miko would have
to push to try to win then to constantly settle for 2nd. last year:
seb has 7 victories, two 2nds, one 4th, one 7th and one Ret.
Miko had 4 1st, five 2nd, two 3rds and one Ret but was still only 1p
behind in the championship standings.

so imo the points system is a bit flawed.

[Simmi]

Imo the two changes that needs to be made is reversed starting order and
more points to the rally winner.

Exactly right. If I was Jean Todt these would be the FIRST changes I made. So simple to do this but it has a massive effect on the shape of the championship, and a positive effect on the spectacle.

And it costs nothing. It is again just the simple procedure of undoing old decisions.

[J.Lindstroem]

Mikko will probably win the championship in 2011.

case closed.

[Wim_Impreza]

Mikko overrated? I think that the difference is between the Ford Focus the better Citroën C4. ;)
Yes certain has Mikko Hirvonen a chance to win a WRC title this year.
When he prefers sometimes to go for second place is not bad, there was only 1 point difference in the WRC 2009!!! :p :

Second places don't make Hirvonen a champion. I believe the Focus is as good as the C4 on gravel. Sordo will be a good teammate for Loeb again this year with 4 tarmac events and he has improved his speed on gravel. In a good weekend for Ogier or Petter Solberg, both can finish before Hirvonen too.

[Simmi]

In a good weekend for Ogier or Petter Solberg, both can finish before Hirvonen too.

A lot of people clearly saw something in Ogier I didn't this season.

I didn't see any evidence he could beat Hirvonen even on a good day. Just a couple of very brief flashes like in Australia. His second place in Greece was down to retirements. You only have to look at the rest of the top 8 to see that. No doubt he is a talent for the future but I can't imagine he's happy with how 2009 went.

[Helstar]

Hirvonen is a good guy but it's a shame that he came into subaru WRC seat (2004) instead of C.McRae with paid seat.. That moment our sport start to go down very badly..
McRae wasn't in Subaru in 2003 ... he was in Citroen and excluded at the end of year after the "3 cars" rule suppression.
I don't remember if Colin was supposed to be back to Subaru for 2004 ?

[J.Lindstroem]

McRae wasn't in Subaru in 2003 ... he was in Citroen and excluded at the end of year after the "3 cars" rule suppression.
I don't remember if Colin was supposed to be back to Subaru for 2004 ?

Yeah he was supposed to be with Subaru. As i remember it the deal was really close. I dont remember what happened but something came into the way. Does anyone remember?

[J.Lindstroem]

McRae wasn't in Subaru in 2003 ... he was in Citroen and excluded at the end of year after the "3 cars" rule suppression.
I don't remember if Colin was supposed to be back to Subaru for 2004 ?

Yeah he was supposed to be with Subaru. As i remember it the deal was really close. I dont remember what happened but something came into the way. I agree with Barreis that it was in 2004 things got worse. But i dont think it has anything to do with Mikko, more about that the teams could'nt have three cars anymore..

[pettersolberg29]

A lot of people clearly saw something in Ogier I didn't this season.

I didn't see any evidence he could beat Hirvonen even on a good day. Just a couple of very brief flashes like in Australia. His second place in Greece was down to retirements. You only have to look at the rest of the top 8 to see that. No doubt he is a talent for the future but I can't imagine he's happy with how 2009 went.

I sort of agree, but I think Ogier will certainly be a threat in 2010. He may not have the pace of Mikko yet if everything goes well, but Ogier is now good enough to spoil the party if Mikko or anyone else has a puncture or even a small off. In the past, Loeb and Mikko could have rolled, had a puncture, had some lunch and still fiished the rally in 1st and 2nd, but now Petter, Ogier and possibly Kimi by 2011 will join the battle.

[Tomi]

Yeah he was supposed to be with Subaru. As i remember it the deal was really close. I dont remember what happened but something came into the way. I agree with Barreis that it was in 2004 things got worse. But i dont think it has anything to do with Mikko, more about that the teams could'nt have three cars anymore..

Subaru did not want McRae but Prodrive did, Jouhki negotiated the contract, directly with Japan. Thats also the reason also why Mikko was treated the way he was at Prodrive.

[Barreis]

Paid Seats Ruined Our Sport.

[J.Lindstroem]

Paid Seats Ruined Our Sport.

So Mikko was the first one who payed to drive?

[Josti]

Yeah he was supposed to be with Subaru. As i remember it the deal was really close. I dont remember what happened but something came into the way. Does anyone remember?

I think it was Richard Burns who got a deal with Subaru at that time, but of course fate decided otherwise soon after. I'm not sure if McRae was in the picture after that, could be true. Maybe his salary standards were too high?

[Tomi]

I think it was Richard Burns who got a deal with Subaru at that time, but of course fate decided otherwise soon after. I'm not sure if McRae was in the picture after that, could be true. Maybe his salary standards were too high?

Exactly, Prodrive had not the money to pay McRae and Subaru was not interested to pay what he asked, very simple.

[J.Lindstroem]

I think it was Richard Burns who got a deal with Subaru at that time, but of course fate decided otherwise soon after. I'm not sure if McRae was in the picture after that, could be true. Maybe his salary standards were too high?

Yeah of course. It was decided before rally Australia 2003 that Burns would team up with Subaru for 2004, but unfortunatly that did'nt happened.

I was very suprised when Mikko was presented as the number two driver, and in 2004 i knew why that was, he did'nt do very well. But i suppose whats been mentioned here before is true. Prodrive did'nt want Mikko, they wanted Colin but Subaru said otherwise. I suppose Mikko did'nt have any power at all to change the car to his driving style and stuff like that.

[Mauri A]

Paid Seats Ruined Our Sport.
So, when it looks like you know everything about paid and not paid seats could you pls tell us who was the last World Champion without prepaid seat.

[Barreis]

Seb.Loeb. :)

[WRCMAD Sean]

Who thinks that is Colin Mcrae (RIP) were still in the WRC, he would be able to beat loeb?

[N.O.T]

Who thinks that is Colin Mcrae (RIP) were still in the WRC, he would be able to beat loeb?

we need an age filter for this forum....

[WRCMAD Sean]

we need an age filter for this forum....
and what is that superposed to mean?

[N.O.T]

that minors should not allowed to post

[WRCMAD Sean]

that minors should not allowed to post
how dos age matter, the reason were even on this forum is because we like rally.

[WRCfan]

Age should not matter, however posting under two accounts should, as well as making threads where the topic is already being discussed elsewhere, or has been 1000 times tends to p!ss off the locals here.

Also having a good grasp of spelling would be an advantage.



Hope this helps....

[macksrallye]

the amount of tarmac events narrow his chances but i think on gravel he could win some battles if he choses to risk and not act like a scared chicken like he did last year.

Absolutely agree 100%. The only time we saw Mikko do this was the last day in GB, he was absolutely flying before the bonnet decided to smack him in the face. He needs to drive like this all season, but unfortunately I don't think he will. Hirvonen, Sordo & JML will never win the WRC because they are/have all been "brought up" as second drivers. JML had the best chance as when he started with BP Ford he had the raw speed & talent like McRae, Makinen & others but unfotunately Malcom has killed any chances he had of a drivers WRC with the way he's looked at JML.

[grugsticles]

Absolutely agree 100%. The only time we saw Mikko do this was the last day in GB, he was absolutely flying before the bonnet decided to smack him in the face. He needs to drive like this all season, but unfortunately I don't think he will. Hirvonen, Sordo & JML will never win the WRC because they are/have all been "brought up" as second drivers. JML had the best chance as when he started with BP Ford he had the raw speed & talent like McRae, Makinen & others but unfotunately Malcom has killed any chances he had of a drivers WRC with the way he's looked at JML.
Im not sure I agree with you 100% on the comment you made about MH, JML or DS ever being WRC champion because they have all been brought up as 2nd drivers, but I think I know what your getting at.
For example, Petter was 2nd driver for quite some years to a series of other drivers, Colin was the same while at Prodrive. Loab was 3rd driver for a while.

But I do agree that MH, JML and DS have not been allowed to be let off the leash and learn to control their speed in their early years in the WRC. They have been urged to finish rather than win. As a result, they dont have the ability to take that extra step and walk the tightrope to get a victory.

But who knows, maybe we could all be in for a surprise at the end of this coming season!

[ShiftingGears]

Depends. He will definitely be more aggressive - he knows that playing the safe points game cost him last year.

[JFL]

But I do agree that MH, JML and DS have not been allowed to be let off the leash and learn to control their speed in their early years in the WRC. They have been urged to finish rather than win.

JML?learn to finnish? Leash? What leash? :)

[I am evil Homer]

Depends. He will definitely be more aggressive - he knows that playing the safe points game cost him last year.

And then comes another problem...he pushes, he crashes....he ends up with fewer points. I'm not sure he did play if safe last year I think maybe that he was at the limit of what he could achieve

Because we have to be honest, Loeb is a freak...the guy's ability to dominate an event and psycholgoically break opponents with one blistering stage time is second to none. And that is why he won last year and probably why he will win this year with a bigger points gap.

[kakus]

Unfortunately you're probably right.

[Langdale Forest]

we need an age filter for this forum....

It's people like you who cause problems, as I have noticed before.

[Langdale Forest]

the amount of tarmac events narrow his chances but i think on gravel he could win some battles if he choses to risk and not act like a scared chicken like he did last year.

How can you say that Mikko is a 'scared chicken'? :rolleyes:

[grugsticles]

JML?learn to finnish? Leash? What leash? :)
Well IMO JML is a champion in the making. He has some serious speed.
I know he has thrown away some good results, but if David Richards didnt have the level of patience that he had for Colin, then we would have never have been gifted with the most iconic rally driver in history. I believe a similar sted is there for JML.

MW, let the boy drive. He will learn!

[macksrallye]

For example, Petter was 2nd driver for quite some years to a series of other drivers, Colin was the same while at Prodrive. Loab was 3rd driver for a while.

While these guys were all second drivers. They were allowed to push & find their limits & even go over them. Let's face it, how many times did Colin & Petter have accidents when pushing too hard in their early years (Finland 1992 anyone). Loeb was a little different, he is definately a rare talent (and he knows it which is the bit that gets at me). I really think JML should have been left as part of Stobart for a couple of years to grow, which is just what Citroen are doing with Ogier.

[Simmi]

Loeb was a little different, he is definately a rare talent (and he knows it which is the bit that gets at me).

Of course he knows it. It would be impossible not to know it. He only has the entire history of rallying laid out behind him. It's not hard to see that what he has done surpassed the achievements of everyone else. To his credit his public persona remains relatively modest so I see no issue.

[cut the b.s.]

Of course he knows it. It would be impossible not to know it. He only has the entire history of rallying laid out behind him. It's not hard to see that what he has done surpassed the achievements of everyone else. To his credit his public persona remains relatively modest so I see no issue.

+1

[ShiftingGears]

And then comes another problem...he pushes, he crashes....he ends up with fewer points. I'm not sure he did play if safe last year I think maybe that he was at the limit of what he could achieve

He didn't play it safe from the onset of rallies, but he definitely settled when it came to the final day. Now he knows he'll have to get quite out of his comfort zone if he wants to have a chance at Loeb...unless the Ford is the dominant car.


Because we have to be honest, Loeb is a freak...the guy's ability to dominate an event and psycholgoically break opponents with one blistering stage time is second to none. And that is why he won last year and probably why he will win this year with a bigger points gap.

He is unquestionably brilliant, for sure.

[ShiftingGears]

Of course he knows it. It would be impossible not to know it. He only has the entire history of rallying laid out behind him. It's not hard to see that what he has done surpassed the achievements of everyone else. To his credit his public persona remains relatively modest so I see no issue.

Absolutely. So many sportsmen would never stop talking about how amazing they are if they dominated their respective sports like Loeb has.

[macksrallye]

Absolutely. So many sportsmen would never stop talking about how amazing they are if they dominated their respective sports like Loeb has.

He may not blurt it out but he looks down his nose at everyone he meets, that's what gets at me.

[Simmi]

He may not blurt it out but he looks down his nose at everyone he meets, that's what gets at me.

Well that's not always an easy thing to do for a short guy. But I think it's safe to say you're in the minority of people who think that about Loeb.

[noel157]

He may not blurt it out but he looks down his nose at everyone he meets, that's what gets at me.

In my experience you are incorrect. Last time I saw Loeb he undid his belts, got out of the C4 and posed for a picture with my son at a regroup. We were the only spectators there. Later that day he waved me down as I was driving past parc ferme and he and Elena hopped in my car and we gave them a lift back to their hotel. 2 world champions in the back of my car! He did say he finds it difficult sometimes when there's 200 fans looking for his autograph in the service park and 3 or 4 TV crews and a dozen journalists who want to stick mikes in his face when he only has a few minutes to spare before the next stage.

[macksrallye]

In my experience you are incorrect. Last time I saw Loeb he undid his belts, got out of the C4 and posed for a picture with my son at a regroup. We were the only spectators there. Later that day he waved me down as I was driving past parc ferme and he and Elena hopped in my car and we gave them a lift back to their hotel. 2 world champions in the back of my car! He did say he finds it difficult sometimes when there's 200 fans looking for his autograph in the service park and 3 or 4 TV crews and a dozen journalists who want to stick mikes in his face when he only has a few minutes to spare before the next stage.

I'm glad to hear that as my only experiences with him were a few years ago at Rally Oz (Perth WA) & he wasn't interested in signing any autographs (& the crowd wasn't exactly large). In total contrast every other driver signed autographs & in fact thanked me as I still had my officials shirt on from being out in the stages earlier in the day. I had freinds at Rally Oz this year & they came back saying the same thing.

This is all my opinion and I can only go off of my experiences.