F1 2010: Testing sessions thread

[SGWilko]

But you can't hide lap times!

Of course not, but you can ask your pilot not to go flat out, or you can run more fuel than the amount of laps in your stint demands etc etc.

[wedge]

Of course not, but you can ask your pilot not to go flat out, or you can run more fuel than the amount of laps in your stint demands etc etc.

Analysing lap times such as consistency and drop off.

Alonso blackmailled his own boss which is far more disgraceful IMO.

Yes, but since his boss was cheating. lying scum, there is nothing wrong with that.

"With the spy history I was in the wrong place at the wrong time," Alonso told the newspaper. "But I was very happy to help the FIA discover everything"

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81650

Good lad!

and was happy to rat out an entire team knowing they could be thrown out of the sport.

Only after they had ratted on him.

Never forget that.

[SGWilko]

You'll have to enlighten me there.

You'll have to bear with him, he's probably repairing a puncture in his yacht...

You'll have to enlighten me there.

There isn't the candle-power or wattage in the world to achieve that, as there are none so blind as those who do not wish to see.

[gloomyDAY]

There isn't the candle-power or wattage in the world to achieve that, as there are none so blind as those who do not wish to see.Iambic pentameter? That was pretty slick there Tamby.

[SGWilko]

There isn't the candle-power or wattage in the world to achieve that, as there are none so blind as those who do not wish to see.

Sorry, what was your answer to the question posed as to 'how was Alonso ratted on'?

Fork 'andles, or four candles has no place when you actually require 'andles for forks.

Just don't ask for knockers.

[Sonic]

Seriously though this stale debate has nothing to do with testing, so lets leave it there.. :)

Amen! :)

Iambic pentameter? That was pretty slick there Tamby.

Grazie.

Thoug, alas, twas wasted upon the philistines, I see.

so lets leave it there.. :)

The last refuge of a scoundrel.

[Big Ben]

Or roughly translated:
"I have no facts or proof to suggest Alonso was ratted out by his team, and realised my arguement had failed when I accused Ron Dennis of being a cheat and then realised Alonso had been a cheat in the original crime. My pride doesn't allow me to concede defeat so I'll replace my reasoned response with a witty, condescending reply"... :p

Seriously though this stale debate has nothing to do with testing, so lets leave it there.. :)

what a peaceful man you are. This is like putting on the condom after having sexy time.

[Saint Devote]

That is the strangest way to look at it. That's like if Luca Badoer came out and said the F60 was the best car he'd even raced - it was, but against the competition it wasn't.

Why oh why would a double WDC come out and make such an obvious statement, he wouldnt . The only logical thing he could mean is that the F10 is the car that he believes will see him lift a 3rd title.

I do not think it is strange - it is entirely plausible. You can draw that conclusion about Fernando - my point was that it may be the best car he has driven for the reasons I gave, but we have no idea how it will peform versus the others, and neither does Alonso.

But as it IS Alonso and if it IS a good car, then ALONSO has a good chance of winning - not by implication Massa.

If Badoer said it was the best car it would carry little weight - albeit that the press treated Luca abominably, notwithstanding the Italian did not acquit himself well. Allowing Grosjean by, in the pit exit lane AND infringing the blend line at Valencia was the most peculiar action.

Definitely both Badoer and Fisichella did not cloak themselves in glory - but the F60 was extremely difficult to learn at such short notice as Giancarlo showed.

[Saint Devote]

What disgrace? He finished second in WDC. He cheated and still lost!

Alonso blackmailled his own boss which is far more disgraceful IMO. Not even Schumi or Senna sunk that low. ....OK maybe Senna in '93! :D

The point is, both have used devious/underhand/unsporting tactics in the past.

There is a difference between being dangerous and cheating on track and using leverage in a fit of pique to try and engineer one's own goal within a team - a team whose principal had no idea HOW to manage the situation - something Ron Dennis now admits was mishandled.

"Blackmail" is not the correct word.

What Senna did was even worse and he ought to have been thrown out of the sport.

Schumacher will find that he needs to get his in car temper under control as F1 has changed since he last raced.

For the first time in his F1 career Schumi will face a field that has depth of ability and those same drivers contain people that will not be rattled by his close on track presence and one driver who knows he has beaten him - twice. Luca alluded to that!

[Sonic]

Ok, if him being a Double WDC isn't enough to take him at face value how about simple maths. The best lap we have seen in testing at Jerez is some 3+ seconds down on the best the V10's could managed so it is not the the fastest car he has even driven, so he must be refering to its pace against his rivals when he speaks of it being his best car ever.

[SGWilko]

Ok, if him being a Double WDC isn't enough to take him at face value how about simple maths. The best lap we have seen in testing at Jerez is some 3+ seconds down on the best the V10's could managed so it is not the the fastest car he has even driven, so he must be refering to its pace against his rivals when he speaks of it being his best car ever.

You is missing the point brother.

How heavy or light was his car?

How heavy or light were the others?

What compound of tyre was he running?

What compound of tyre were the others running?

Were the tyres new, or worn?

Is the car good at heating the tyre, does it look after the tyre(s)?

How many laps was the stint that the fastest time was set on?

Come up with the answers to the above, and you are about a quarter of the way to knowing who is where.

Alonso's soundbite is what is called 'media games'.

[SGWilko]

Next, you need to consider aero efficiency, speed trap figures, COG, aero balance, cooling, diffuser efficiency.

I could go on........

(my wife tells me I do anyway...!!!!)

[SGWilko]

Think about this - teams that have thus far run the tank dry to guage fuel flow and consumption have not set the fastest laps during the run?

You'd think that, running on fumes, they would, huh?

So you see, cards are played very close to the chest in the testing game.....

[f1indiablog]

Aroaring engine
an energetic crowd
a mega stage
for a mega event

a drivers playground
an engineers dream
a teams backing
a spectators paradise

Read full poem by a kid who z Ferrari and Schumacher fan http://bit.ly/dqHvvc

[F1boat]

For the first time in his F1 career Schumi will face a field that has depth of ability

I disagree vehemently. Michael has faced Ayrton, Alain, Nige, Damon, the impossibly fast Mika Hakkinen, the crazy Montoya, his own brother, who was no slouch, Kimi... he has no reason the fear a bunch of kids ;) Although I do admit that Alonso and Lewis are formidable rivals.

[Saint Devote]

That was also the point I was trying to make. I have no doubt it is the best car Fernando has driven but at this early stage, he like ourselves do not know how it will fair once in a proper race situation. Saying he is a double WDC to back up the fact that Alonso has made a claim is silly really. Schuey once said that he expected Liuzzi to be a WDC and a major force in F1 after he beat Schuey at a Karting event in 2001. Schuey also reckoned Button would be his toughest rival in the coming years prior to the 2004 season. F1 drivers have a better insight than any of us, but they can also make claims designed to get coverage going into a season like the one coming up.

Lots of fuss and claims have been thrown around about the lap times of the Ferrari, but it has not been the fastest overall in the 3 tests. The Mclaren has topped the time sheets twice, but we have no idea what fuel load and instructions were given to make this the case. I'm not getting my hopes up over a fast time when there are many factors to take into consideration this season regarding maintaining a lead throughout each race. One blog says its the Ferrari, another says its the Mclaren, Alonso is confident with his car, Hamilton is bigging up his. Its all banter until we know for sure, and the team best set up at the start will not necessarily be the best come the season close. :)

And there is the usual double standard also - Alonso claims it is the best car and OMG!! watch out all!, similarly if Schumacher had set quickest time at Jerez it would have been heralded from the rooftops and "poor Nico" and the eigth title is on the way.

Instead Button sets the quickest time of the whole eight days at Jerez almost a second quicker, the Mclaren team reportedly try and contain their happiness and what happens?

Oh Mclaren were on low fuel and must have been time of day and so on. Button? Who? As usual.

Of course if precious little Lewis had set the time there would have been wakes held over Jenson's career at Mclaren.

[F1boat]

And there is the usual double standard also - Alonso claims it is the best car and OMG!! watch out all!, similarly if Schumacher had set quickest time at Jerez it would have been heralded from the rooftops and "poor Nico" and the eigth title is on the way.

Instead Button sets the quickest time of the whole eight days at Jerez almost a second quicker, the Mclaren team reportedly try and contain their happiness and what happens?

Oh Mclaren were on low fuel and must have been time of day and so on. Button? Who? As usual.

Of course if precious little Lewis had set the time there would have been wakes held over Jenson's career at Mclaren.
Yes, this is true. But hopefully Jenson will prove his critics wrong. We have to remember that Hakkinen had only one gifted win prior to 1998 and in his time, when he was winning it was always the car and never the driver. But now he is considered to be a F1 legend and one of the fastest guys ever... On the other hand Damon, who was also a brilliant driver (I think that he has more wins than Hakkinen, BTW) is still underestimated.

[SGWilko]

I disagree vehemently. Michael has faced Ayrton,

Yep, wiping Ayrton out several times in one race, that had to be restarted as a result.


Alain,

At the end of his career


Nige, at the end of his career in F1.


Damon, the impossibly fast Mika Hakkinen, the crazy Montoya, his own brother, who was no slouch, Kimi... he has no reason the fear a bunch of kids ;) Although I do admit that Alonso and Lewis are formidable rivals. These are better representatives.

[SGWilko]

And there is the usual double standard also - Alonso claims it is the best car and OMG!! watch out all!, similarly if Schumacher had set quickest time at Jerez it would have been heralded from the rooftops and "poor Nico" and the eigth title is on the way.

Instead Button sets the quickest time of the whole eight days at Jerez almost a second quicker, the Mclaren team reportedly try and contain their happiness and what happens?

Oh Mclaren were on low fuel and must have been time of day and so on. Button? Who? As usual.

Of course if precious little Lewis had set the time there would have been wakes held over Jenson's career at Mclaren.

You spend too much time thinking......

[Sonic]

You is missing the point brother.


Not really. The original point raised was that no one believed Fred that the F10 was proper quick. As you say, none of us norms know the answer to any of the questions you mentioned, however its a fair bet that Ferrari (and the other teams) have a pretty large amount of data allowing them to draw conclusions on their pace. For Fred to go from saying in the first test "Ok, we are fastest but I'm keeping my feet on the ground" to "OMG this car is freakin' awesome" after the latest test (ok so not his exact words) suggests to me he has every reason to believe what he is saying.

My point was that he is experienced enough to be believed and not have interweb hacks pretending they know more than him or the Ferrari team.

All that said I still expect McLaren, RBR and Merc to have a serious say in who takes home the silverware this year.

[Saint Devote]

Yes, this is true. But hopefully Jenson will prove his critics wrong. We have to remember that Hakkinen had only one gifted win prior to 1998 and in his time, when he was winning it was always the car and never the driver. But now he is considered to be a F1 legend and one of the fastest guys ever... On the other hand Damon, who was also a brilliant driver (I think that he has more wins than Hakkinen, BTW) is still underestimated.

My sentiments exactly :D

But part of the whole configured Schumacher religion. I am a great defender of Damon's honor and his father would have been immensely proud of him.

Damon epitomizes character. In 1995 after Australia there was not a whine, a complaint an accusation or anything else that is common with too many these days. Just the Hill look and Graham was surely smiling in motor racing heaven that day!

One more win to Damon - ought to have been TWO - that brilliant drive at Hungaroring :s mokin:

[Sonic]

Indeed there would, but I must be honest if Lewis had have set a quicker time in the wet conditions compared to Button's dry run, that would be wholely justified.. :p

Top gear power board anyone? ;)

[Saint Devote]

Jenson has always proved his critics wrong.

Anyone requiring "proof" bow in my view is an ass - Jenson should just ignore them.

He is world champion and Kimi's sentiments are appropriate here.

I am missing the Finn already and it remains a indictment of the people in F1 that he is NOT in one of the best cars this year.

[F1boat]

My sentiments exactly :D

But part of the whole configured Schumacher religion. I am a great defender of Damon's honor and his father would have been immensely proud of him.

Damon epitomizes character. In 1995 after Australia there was not a whine, a complaint an accusation or anything else that is common with too many these days. Just the Hill look and Graham was surely smiling in motor racing heaven that day!

One more win to Damon - ought to have been TWO - that brilliant drive at Hungaroring :s mokin:

I agree about Hungary. It was an amazing drive. I have to say that part of my immense dislike to JV is probably that lucky win. And I agree that Damon was very, very fast, on his day unbeatable. And I really really can't understand the argument that he is bad, because he is slower than Michael. Michael is or at least was the best driver ever, in my opinion. There is nothing wrong to be slower than him. It is like to say - silver is not as precious as gold, so it is useless...

[wedge]

And I really really can't understand the argument that he is bad, because he is slower than Michael. Michael is or at least was the best driver ever, in my opinion. There is nothing wrong to be slower than him. It is like to say - silver is not as precious as gold, so it is useless...

Because Damon was impotent in 1995 and should've won WDC.

[SGWilko]

Damon was impotent in 1995.

Oh dear, was he wearing his jeans too tight or sommat?

[Sonic]

Oh god, don't open that can of worms buddy.. :p

;)

Seriously though, Jenson can build a legacy for himself this season. If he can compete with pretty boy Lewy or even beat him reputation will be enhanced. Or he'll get his doors blow off and he'll be remembered as a driver who had the good fortune to sit in a good car when all of the best rivals got lumbered with dogs.

[SGWilko]

;)

Seriously though, Jenson can build a legacy for himself this season. If he can compete with pretty boy Lewy or even beat him reputation will be enhanced. Or he'll get his doors blow off and he'll be remembered as a driver who had the good fortune to sit in a good car when all of the best rivals got lumbered with dogs.

Best driver in the best car wins the WDC - I'd go with that.

Average driver in best car wins - he'd have a shot, but I dare guess he'd make too many mistakes.

Best driver in an average car wins - probably.

Now, turn to team mates.

Best two drivers in a team. Who wins the WDC?????

Only once has this scenario occured in my time watching F1 - 1988. Prost v Senna, both at the top of their game.

[Sonic]

Best driver in the best car wins the WDC - I'd go with that.

Average driver in best car wins - he'd have a shot, but I dare guess he'd make too many mistakes.

Best driver in an average car wins - probably.

Now, turn to team mates.

Best two drivers in a team. Who wins the WDC?????

Only once has this scenario occured in my time watching F1 - 1988. Prost v Senna, both at the top of their game.

And we all know how that worked out ;)

Going to be a great season.

[SGWilko]

And we all know how that worked out ;)

Going to be a great season.

Well, it was all quite amicable up to that point. '89 is when it all went Pete Tong.

The point to my ditty of course is that, for the first time in I don't know how long, the outgoing and incoming WDC's are in the same team.

If you assume the WDC is the best driver, we are, as you suggest, in for a good'un

[F1boat]

Because Damon was impotent in 1995 and should've won WDC.

Benetton Renault was WCC champions as well, so I don't think that the advantage was only because of the driver. Don't get me wrong - I do rate Michael higher than Damon, but the 1995 Benetton was a very strong team. IMO it was to Williams like Ferrari to McLaren in 2000.

[Sonic]

Not sure about that. DC (hardly a out and out speedster) had three poles on the trot early in the early races that year (from memory). It was a stonking car and Damon fluffed it.

I say this as a huge Damon fan and at the time I wouldn't hear a word against him, however hindsight is a magical thing and with it benefits I can see just how badly the Williams drivers performed in 1995.

[Kevincal]

Ok, I apologise but I have not been keeping up with F1. :) Could someone break down the testing times and list whos been fastest to slowest? :)

Ok, I apologise but I have not been keeping up with F1. :) Could someone break down the testing times and list whos been fastest to slowest? :)

That still won't tell you who is actually fastest.

Mclaren and Ferrari and Red Bull have topped the times, but it is really the long-distance runs that would give a better indication of competitiveness.

In that department, it has been reported that Ferrari are looking very strong. Something Button concurs with.

Apparently, some Mclaren fans on here don't believe him, as they are better qualified.

[Kevincal]

Thank you Tamburello, exactly what I was looking for! ;)

[SGWilko]

That still won't tell you who is actually fastest.

Mclaren and Ferrari and Red Bull have topped the times, but it is really the long-distance runs that would give a better indication of competitiveness.

In that department, it has been reported that Ferrari are looking very strong. Something Button concurs with.

Apparently, some Mclaren fans on here don't believe him, as they are better qualified.

Well, we have an indication of race competitiveness from the long runs.

What we don't know of course, and is the subject of much debate, is out and out qualifying pace - for which you need a car that heats its tyres well.

Of course, a car that heats the tyres well, has the tendency to bugger them over a race stint.

What you need, is a happy medium.

Where are you moored today Tamb, Serpentine?

[truefan72]

I disagree vehemently. Michael has faced Ayrton, Alain, Nige, Damon, the impossibly fast Mika Hakkinen, the crazy Montoya, his own brother, who was no slouch, Kimi... he has no reason the fear a bunch of kids ;) Although I do admit that Alonso and Lewis are formidable rivals.

add vettlel, massa, webber, button, and his own teammate rosberg to that list.

I think Schumi faces some stiff competition and even more some other cars that seem equally as good and potentially better than his own. But yeah, he has faced some really good competition in the past, Add Damon, Villeneuve, JPM, Hakkinnen, Alonso, Berger, Prost, etc

[truefan72]

Ok, I apologise but I have not been keeping up with F1. :) Could someone break down the testing times and list whos been fastest to slowest? :)

my friend, there are 30 pages to read ;)

get a good glass of wine and get caught up...or forget about everything so far and look at Barcelona this week as really the only true testing sessions with meaningful comparisons and analysis to be made

[F1boat]

add vettlel, massa, webber, button, and his own teammate rosberg to that list.

I think Schumi faces some stiff competition and even more some other cars that seem equally as good and potentially better than his own. But yeah, he has faced some really good competition in the past, Add Damon, Villeneuve, JPM, Hakkinnen, Alonso, Berger, Prost, etc

My point is that I agree with him when he said that the era now is undoubtedly tough, but tougher than before - no? Maybe if he wasn't there with his dominant Ferrari Rubens and Montoya would have been champions, for example.

[f1indiablog]

F1 2010 Pre-Season Testing, Barcelona: 25th February (http://www.f1indiablog.in/2010/02/f1-2010-pre-season-testing-barcelona.html)

Lineup:
McLaren – Jenson Button
Mercedes– Nico Rosberg
Red Bull – Mark Webber
Ferrari – Fernando Alonso
Williams – Nico Hülkenberg
BMW Sauber– Pedro de la Rosa
Renault– Vitaly Petrov
Force India– Vitantonio Liuzzi
Toro Rosso – Jaime Alguersuari
Virgin – TBA
Lotus – Fairuz Fauzy

[driveace]

Full up today then as all the Spaniards go to watch their idol Alonso,I also believe MS will have a hard year this year as the cars are more equal,and the yougsters will not be afraid of giving him a hard time.He needs to be as good as Hamilton ,Vettel ,Alonso,and maybe Rosberg

[Dave B]

At least it's sunny and dry today, so we should get some proper running in.

Pretty uneventful so far: Fauzy and Alonso have both caused red flags, the former with hydraulic pressure problems, other than that nothing to write home about.

[Dave B]

Lunch break. Times so far:


1 Webber Red Bull 1m21.487s
2 Rosberg Mercedes 1m22.514s +1.027
3 Hulkenberg Williams 1m22.684s +1.197
4 de la Rosa Sauber 1m23.321s +1.834
5 Alonso Ferrari 1m24.580s +3.093
6 Button McLaren 1m24.582s +3.095
7 Alguersuari Toro Rosso 1m24.869s +3.382
8 Liuzzi Force India 1m25.303s +3.816
9 Petrov Renault 1m26.208s +4.721
10 Di Grassi Virgin 1m27.057s +5.570
11 Fauzy Lotus 1m29.795s +8.308

No more running for di Grassi after he damaged his Virgin just before lunch and caused another red flag.

[Dave B]

Alonso's earlier stoppage was down to an electrical failure, according to to @InsideFerrari (http://twitter.com/InsideFerrari).

[Dave B]

Interesting. Nobody at the track has reported that, and blown engines are usually (but I accept not always) pretty obvious.

[ArrowsFA1]

Don't know whether it was Ferrari, or perhaps it was the Alfa team, in the mid-80's, but they never had engine failures despite evidence of smoke and/or a trail of oil and/or engine bits being left on the track after an 'explosion'. It was always an "electrical" fault, or some other reason, which explained things :p

[Dave B]

Yup, usually along the lines of a cable being damaged (forgetting to mention that it was caused by a piston going through it)!

[Dave B]

A red flag with five minutes to go. Where've we heard that before? Oh yes, almost every session this month!

I wonder if they'll get restarted and if so who'll go for a low-fuel glory run...

Edit: no. Game over.


1 Webber Red Bull 1m21.487s
2 Hulkenberg Williams 1m22.407s +0.920
3 Rosberg Mercedes 1m22.514s +1.027
4 de la Rosa Sauber 1m23.144s +1.657
5 Button McLaren 1m23.452s +1.965
6 Liuzzi Force India 1m24.064s +2.577
7 Alonso Ferrari 1m24.170s +2.683
8 Petrov Renault 1m24.173s +2.686
9 Alguersuari Toro Rosso 1m24.869s +3.382
10 Di Grassi Virgin 1m27.057s +5.570
11 Fauzy Lotus 1m28.002s +6.515

[F1boat]

RBR looking impressive IMO.

[gloomyDAY]

RBR looking impressive IMO.http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/upload/2009/07/weekend_diversion_i_am_alterin/darth-vader.jpg

[Pulidor]

Yeah Dave, I have to agree.
It's sort of frustrating that in every test session so far there's always some kind of problem at the end that prevents the drivers to try and get a single fast lap. Boring, isn't it?

I wonder how they will feel in Q1 in Bahrain, being the first time they really need to push for a time. Will we see the real car deficiencies there?

@GloomyDay: lol :D

[AndyL]

The Ferrari wheel covers seem to have raised a few eyebrows. I wonder if they'll be present come Bahrain?

I had a quick look at the new rules after I saw the picture of those... looks to me like they'll be clearly legal provided they're an integral part of the wheel (not a separate component) and are recessed at least 25mm in from the outer face of the wheel.

From the shape I would hazard a guess that they're more about brake cooling than drag... just a guess though, I'm no expert.

[wedge]

RBR looking impressive IMO.

A bit premature. McLaren & Ferrari have yet to show their hand against each other

[Saint Devote]

Rules? Gary Anderson reckons that there is going to be a real mess when the teams all expose their diffusers to scrutiny.

The whiny babies of F1, Ferrari, already fired the first shot a few weeks ago with their dark mutterings.

[Saint Devote]

Anderson thinks the fins are ugly and ought to be banned by the FIA. He says they are useful signboards.

But I wonder how a team like Ferrari will react if Red Bull and Mclaren do all the running at Sakhir?

[F1boat]

Anderson thinks the fins are ugly and ought to be banned by the FIA. He says they are useful signboards.

But I wonder how a team like Ferrari will react if Red Bull and Mclaren do all the running at Sakhir?

The worst case scenario for them is if Michael is fastest. They will be shocked and embarrassed.

[F1boat]

A bit premature. McLaren & Ferrari have yet to show their hand against each other

Mercedes GP as well, I expect these three teams to improve, but still RBR look good to me.

[Dave B]

Oooh the glamour of F1 transport! Here's what Williams use to get their cars back from the test in a hurry:

http://twitpic.com/show/thumb/15embf.jpg (http://twitpic.com/15embf)

[Dave B]

Uh-oh, Ferrari are testing their traffic lights again. Thank goodness there's no refuelling this year!

http://twitpic.com/show/thumb/15e7hx.jpg (http://twitpic.com/15e7hx)

[Saint Devote]

Ferrari testing a Mclarenesque tail-fin. Ferrari somehwat nervous at the Mclaren pace of Button at Jerez or just looking to improve "the best car Alonso has ever driven".......?

USF1 entry about to be given to Stefan GP and Chandok to Campos - Benie gets what Bernie wants??

[Saint Devote]

Mercedes GP as well, I expect these three teams to improve, but still RBR look good to me.

I'd go with David Coulthard's assessment that RB06 and MP4-25 are "the cars" so far.

[DexDexter]

Mclaren were testing a traffic light system yesterday which tells the driver when all four wheels have been changed. One light for each wheel in effect. It looks like most teams are looking heavily at the pit stops, as they are rumoured to be around 3 to 4 seconds. Traffic lights might be a common thing next season IMO.. :)

Hmmm...I predict trouble if the system is to be used. I remember certain red cars having problems with these sorts of automatic devices...

[truefan72]

Hmmm...I predict trouble if the system is to be used. I remember certain red cars having problems with these sorts of automatic devices...

me too. I think the lollipop man is still the best. And if you are a team like Mclaren and have not had any trouble with it then why change. I don't think a traffic light system is better. It adds an unnecessary complexity to the issue and can't beat the instant reaction speed and decision making of the lollipop guy right there IMO.

If F1 were serous about reducing costs, that's one element that should be banned. I predict more trouble than it is worth for all the teams using a lighting system. I' mean really, they have a history of poor performance. A simple case of teams out-thinking themselves for no good reason

[Big Ben]

I'd go with David Coulthard's assessment that RB06 and MP4-25 are "the cars" so far.

He's connections to these teams is just a coincidence of course. Interesting that not even involved people like Haug have it so clear.

[Big Ben]

Ferrari testing a Mclarenesque tail-fin. Ferrari somehwat nervous at the Mclaren pace of Button at Jerez or just looking to improve "the best car Alonso has ever driven".......?

Come on, a team trying to improve its car? don't be silly, that's unheard of. Interesting times however:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81724

I don't have a clue what to make of them but can't wait Bahrain to see them race.

[ArrowsFA1]

Great to see Hulk's Williams topping the time sheets :s mokin:

[Dave B]

Indeed, but who will go for a glory run at the end to unseat him?

[wedge]

Some interesting observations:


http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-rules-being-pushed-to-limit-at-test/

Another rule for 2010 states "powered devices which assist in lifting any
part of a car are forbidden in the pit lane during a race".

But at Mercedes GP, mechanics were testing new quick-release pit jacks that operate with the use of purely mechanical and spring-loaded triggers, rather than electronics or pneumatics.

There have also been some insider rumblings - most notably from within Red Bull Racing - about the design of the new McLaren MP4-25 car.

It is believed that some of the air flowing into the air box above Lewis Hamilton and Jenson Button's heads is being channeled not to the engine, but also to the rear of the car for aerodynamic purposes.


The left side pod on the Mclaren is alot bigger than the right. I remember they had a gadget in the first test which was measuring air going in there and now an updated side pod is being used. I wonder if they encountered cooling problems during the first test?

http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/bilder/suchezoom.php?s=t2&b=277203

It could be an optical illusion of course caused by the reflection on the sunny side of the bodywork.. :)

More of an optical illusion. The sidepod ducts are concaved if you haven't noticed.

[Sonic]

The left side pod on the Mclaren is alot bigger than the right. I remember they had a gadget in the first test which was measuring air going in there and now an updated side pod is being used. I wonder if they encountered cooling problems during the first test?

http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/bilder/suchezoom.php?s=t2&b=277203

It could be an optical illusion of course caused by the reflection on the sunny side of the bodywork.. :)

Can't see a difference myself, besides, isn't one of the technical regs that the cars should be symetrical both sides of the centre line of the car? Anyone know for certain?

As for the traffic lights, surely some human involvement must remain for a safe release to avoid a pitlane shunt.

[Dave B]

With metronomic regularity there's been a red flag a few minutes from the end of today's session (Trulli's Lotus). Green again, will anybody go for a low-fuel flyer?

[truefan72]

once again session stopped in last few minutes

this is ridiculous

[Dave B]

And another one just two minutes from the end! Alonso this time. Looks as if the Hulk could end the day fastest.

Edit: it's over for today, with the Williams a fraction quicker than Alonso's best time:

1 Hulkenberg Williams 1m20.614s
2 Alonso Ferrari 1m20.637s +0.023
3 De la Rosa Sauber 1m20.973s +0.359
4 Liuzzi Force India 1m21.056s +0.442
5 Vettel Red Bull 1m21.258s +0.644
6 Alguersuari Toro Rosso 1m21.571s +0.957
7 Schumacher Mercedes 1m21.689s +1.075
8 Hamilton McLaren 1m22.152s +1.538
9 Kubica Renault 1m24.912s +4.298
10 Trulli Lotus 1m25.524s +4.910
11 Glock Virgin 1m25.942s +5.328

[truefan72]

And another one just two minutes from the end! Alonso this time. Looks as if the Hulk could end the day fastest.

Edit: it's over for today, with the Williams a fraction quicker than Alonso's best time:

1 Hulkenberg Williams 1m20.614s
2 Alonso Ferrari 1m20.637s +0.023
3 De la Rosa Sauber 1m20.973s +0.359
4 Liuzzi Force India 1m21.056s +0.442
5 Vettel Red Bull 1m21.258s +0.644
6 Alguersuari Toro Rosso 1m21.571s +0.957
7 Schumacher Mercedes 1m21.689s +1.075
8 Hamilton McLaren 1m22.152s +1.538
9 Kubica Renault 1m24.912s +4.298
10 Trulli Lotus 1m25.524s +4.910
11 Glock Virgin 1m25.942s +5.328

a very cynical red flag imo. Alonso doing a MSC Monaco?

[Dave B]

a very cynical red flag imo. Alonso doing a MSC Monaco?
Unlikely. At the time, he was the only person on track with a realistic chance of beating the Hulk's time. My guess would be that he was trying too hard, but we'll have to wait and see if there was any problem with the car.

[SGWilko]

It is believed that some of the air flowing into the air box above Lewis Hamilton and Jenson Button's heads is being channeled not to the engine, but also to the rear of the car for aerodynamic purposes.

Is that not allowed then? Naughty air, how very dare it...... ;)

Is that not allowed then? Naughty air, how very dare it...... ;)

Depends on how and why it's been used.

If it happens to be used as cooling, even if it's a secondary use, then it will be legal. Ferrari used the "cooling" as the reason for their wheel frisbees, which they patently weren't but it was unprovable.

If it is solely for aero gain, then like the Ferrari nose duct of 2008 it will be outside the current regulations as the body must be free of aero gimmicks.

I doubt the aero boffins at Paragon would be daft enough not to have followed the letter of the law....or at the very least a provable interpretation of the letter of the law.

As for the spirit of the law....well, that doesn't exist except for in the minds of F1 forum dwellers.

[Mia 01]

Sauber looks very very strong!

[truefan72]

Sauber looks very very strong!

yep

its going to be a close season. A bunch of good cars and drivers.

[F1boat]

yep

its going to be a close season. A bunch of good cars and drivers.

I am so excited!

[wedge]

Sauber looks very very strong!

Quali yes, not sure about race pace due to fuel loads. Certainly a car that looks to fight with Brawn for best of the rest.

[Saint Devote]

He's connections to these teams is just a coincidence of course. Interesting that not even involved people like Haug have it so clear.

Haug is part of Mercedes - what can he say?

Coulthard is not a member of either team. He can say anything he wants.

[Saint Devote]

The worst case scenario for them is if Michael is fastest. They will be shocked and embarrassed.

Fastest or quickest? I assume you mean quickest: the worst case scenario for Rosberg - the entire pitlane will be shocked :eek:

Embarrassed? I don't think being beaten by Schumacher to pole is embarassing. If the car is capable - Schumacher can still spring a surprise.

Although if he is quickest, no doubt there will be requests to check the timing equipment :D

[Saint Devote]

It was a close season last year although not as close as in 2008 or 2007.

Good on Hulkenberg - nice to see him give the finger to Alonso in "the best car he has ever driven" - why doesn't he drive it that way then? :-/

[Sonic]

It was a close season last year although not as close as in 2008 or 2007.

Good on Hulkenberg - nice to see him give the finger to Alonso in "the best car he has ever driven" - why doesn't he drive it that way then? :-/

Give it a rest on the whole best car thing! We are not privy to fuel loads tyres or objectives of each run. I'm thrilled to see Williams up there, but with every team saying Ferrari look strong - possibly the strongest - so why are you constantly putting Alonso's comments down?

[ShiftingGears]

Alonso has specifically said that even though it is the best car he has ever driven, it does not mean that it is the best car on the grid.

Having said that, Ferrari are looking good.

[Sonic]

Go NICO! 1m20.6s almost identical to little Nico and Fred's best time from earlier in the week.

Perhaps we have a situation where ten drivers could win a GP this year with 5 teams all having shown pace; McLaren, Ferrari, Williams, Mercedes and Red Bull. :D

[F1boat]

Embarrassed? I don't think being beaten by Schumacher to pole is embarassing.

IMO they will look stupid if their old driver beats them.

[Dave B]

You'll never guess what: a red flag with 3 minutes left on the clock! :crazy:

Every day...

Barrichello this time.

And that's game.

1 Rosberg Mercedes 1m20.686s
2 Buemi Toro Rosso 1m21.413s +0.727
3 Button McLaren 1m21.450s +0.764
4 Barrichello Williams 1m21.975s +1.289
5 Massa Ferrari 1m22.344s +1.658
6 Petrov Renault 1m22.523s +1.837
7 Sutil Force India 1m22.606s +1.920
8 Vettel Red Bull 1m23.254s +2.568
9 Trulli Lotus 1m25.059s +4.373
10 Kobayashi Sauber 1m26.216s +5.530
11 Glock Virgin 1m26.305s +5.619

[truefan72]

You'll never guess what: a red flag with 3 minutes left on the clock! :crazy:

Every day...

Barrichello this time.



this is ridiculous

[truefan72]

IMO they will look stupid if their old driver beats them.

its really not about age.

It is about skill, competence, pace and guile.
MSC is still a superior driver with few equals so i do expect him to do well.Maybe not in the first race, but as the season progresses, I think he might have a race win in him. Although I think Rosberg will get one before him this season. I guess we will just have to watch.

[Robinho]

surprised by Williams pace, it seems that the Cossie is not the donkey we thought, and therefore the new boys are genuinely off the pace, not just because of an enforced engine choice, that or Williams are by far the quickest but hobbled by the engine.

it does look close at the top - Red Bull, Merc, McLaren and Ferrari have all had their time at the top when they've got for a flyer and all seem pretty close on the long runs too, with Renault, Torro Rosso, Williams and Sauber all nipping at their heels. i think we might be in for a vintage season, i'm just hoping one of the big boys have not been sandbagging

[jens]

All we have learnt with 2010 winter tests is that the field is extremely tight. How precise. :p :

Last year we got so many surprises (Brawn's early domination, RBR's domination in China, Force India's pole position - all were quite incredible to see) that I already got used to shocking and stunning results and I really want to see them keep coming, otherwise it would become boring, like watching endless McLaren/Ferrari domination. :s nore: The emotions of watching the qualifying sessions of the 2009 Australian and Belgian GP's will be unforgettable - "wtf was this?!?!" Need more of this! Please 2010, give us a shocking Force India/Sauber front row! :D Or why not even a Williams if Cossie is above others. :p : Or most shockingly - Stefan GP pole! :eek:

[DexDexter]

All we have learnt with 2010 winter tests is that the field is extremely tight. How precise.

Last year we got so many surprises (Brawn's early domination, RBR's domination in China, Force India's pole position - all were quite incredible to see) that I already got used to shocking and stunning results and I really want to see them keep coming, otherwise it would become boring, like watching endless McLaren/Ferrari domination. :s nore: The emotions of watching the qualifying sessions of the 2009 Australian and Belgian GP's will be unforgettable - "wtf was this?!?!" Need more of this! Please 2010, give us a shocking Force India/Sauber front row! :D Or why not even a Williams if Cossie is above others. :p : Or most shockingly - Stefan GP pole! :eek:

You seem to be quite excited, which is a good thing :up:

[F1boat]

I am very happy for Nico's lap today.

[BDunnell]

All we have learnt with 2010 winter tests is that the field is extremely tight. How precise. :p :

Last year we got so many surprises (Brawn's early domination, RBR's domination in China, Force India's pole position - all were quite incredible to see) that I already got used to shocking and stunning results and I really want to see them keep coming, otherwise it would become boring, like watching endless McLaren/Ferrari domination. :s nore: The emotions of watching the qualifying sessions of the 2009 Australian and Belgian GP's will be unforgettable - "wtf was this?!?!" Need more of this! Please 2010, give us a shocking Force India/Sauber front row! :D Or why not even a Williams if Cossie is above others. :p : Or most shockingly - Stefan GP pole! :eek:

And there speaks a proper F1 enthusiast, rather than someone who is impressed by the sport's machinations, wealth and status, which is nice to see. I agree — it should be a splendid season.

[Saint Devote]

I dont think we know much at all about what has gone on during the tests other than a general idea of divisions. And even then - remember those likely to get to Q3 have an entirely different approach to those not.

And I think teams like Williams or Sauber have a more complicated job because they are not likely to get out of Q2.

And the long runs - what if say Mclaren were running with enough fuel for 50 laps but instead just tried to gauge what Ferrari or Red Bull were doing and stopped at 40 laps with competitive times.

So nobody has a clue exactly what is going on and maybe Sauber will arrive in Sakhir and is one second behind or Ferrari discovers that they are no quicker than Mercedes.

I'll stick with Lewis and accept that only at Sakhir will the true order be known - and then of course just because one is quick in practice and maybe qualifying, there is no indication where any team will be at one third distance or halfway and so on. And MAYBE with ten laps left to run the smoothe drivers will now have an advantage over those who have a tendency to destroy their rear tyres.

See? We have no real idea.

[F1boat]

I dont think we know much at all about what has gone on during the tests other than a general idea of divisions. And even then - remember those likely to get to Q3 have an entirely different approach to those not.

And I think teams like Williams or Sauber have a more complicated job because they are not likely to get out of Q2.

And the long runs - what if say Mclaren were running with enough fuel for 50 laps but instead just tried to gauge what Ferrari or Red Bull were doing and stopped at 40 laps with competitive times.

So nobody has a clue exactly what is going on and maybe Sauber will arrive in Sakhir and is one second behind or Ferrari discovers that they are no quicker than Mercedes.

I'll stick with Lewis and accept that only at Sakhir will the true order be known - and then of course just because one is quick in practice and maybe qualifying, there is no indication where any team will be at one third distance or halfway and so on. And MAYBE with ten laps left to run the smoothe drivers will now have an advantage over those who have a tendency to destroy their rear tyres.

See? We have no real idea.

And maybe not even in Sakhir, mate. If the season is as close as it seems it may look like the old seasons in CART, with many different winners and contenders on different weekends, like Merc vs McMerc in Bahrain and Ferrari vs Red Bull in Melbourne...

[UltimateDanGTR]

And maybe not even in Sakhir, mate. If the season is as close as it seems it may look like the old seasons in CART, with many different winners and contenders on different weekends, like Merc vs McMerc in Bahrain and Ferrari vs Red Bull in Melbourne...

id expect exactly that. much like last year, one weekend brawn were superior, then red bull, force india and ferrari, mclaren at one point.

This year id expect much the same, but maybe on a more exciting level....

[Dave B]

On the final day, these are the standings at the lunch break:



1. Lewis Hamilton McLaren 1m20.472s 53
2. Felipe Massa Ferrari 1m20.539s + 0.067s 55
3. Sebastian Vettel Red Bull 1m20.667s + 0.195s 76
4. Michael Schumacher Mercedes 1m20.745s + 0.273s 55
5. Rubens Barrichello Williams 1m20.925s + 0.453s 40
6. Sebastien Buemi Toro Rosso 1m22.135s + 1.663s 46
7. Kamui Kobayashi Sauber 1m22.713s + 2.241s 32
8. Adrian Sutil Force India 1m23.079s + 2.607s 60
9. Robert Kubica Renault 1m24.293s + 3.821s 35
10. Heikki Kovalainen Lotus 1m25.251s + 4.779s 58
11. Lucas di Grassi Virgin 1m26.790s + 6.318s 35

[DazzlaF1]

On the final day, these are the standings at the lunch break:



1. Lewis Hamilton McLaren 1m20.472s 53
2. Felipe Massa Ferrari 1m20.539s + 0.067s 55
3. Sebastian Vettel Red Bull 1m20.667s + 0.195s 76
4. Michael Schumacher Mercedes 1m20.745s + 0.273s 55
5. Rubens Barrichello Williams 1m20.925s + 0.453s 40
6. Sebastien Buemi Toro Rosso 1m22.135s + 1.663s 46
7. Kamui Kobayashi Sauber 1m22.713s + 2.241s 32
8. Adrian Sutil Force India 1m23.079s + 2.607s 60
9. Robert Kubica Renault 1m24.293s + 3.821s 35
10. Heikki Kovalainen Lotus 1m25.251s + 4.779s 58
11. Lucas di Grassi Virgin 1m26.790s + 6.318s 35


Here's hoping that Bahrain upgrade for Virgin helps them, looks like they're clearly struggling.

Another good session so far for Lotus.

And its clear I think about what the 5 fastest cars are now.

[F1boat]

I am quite excited from these results. :) Seems that there are 5 very competitive cars. Imagine the shock if after the 1st qualy first is MS and 2nd Barrichello :-)

[truefan72]

Here's hoping that Bahrain upgrade for Virgin helps them, looks like they're clearly struggling.

Another good session so far for Lotus.

And its clear I think about what the 5 fastest cars are now.


I am quite excited from these results. :) Seems that there are 5 very competitive cars. Imagine the shock if after the 1st qualy first is MS and 2nd Barrichello :-)

Force India and renault were not doing qualy runs this morning so difficult to judge their pace. Sauber were a bit of a mixed bag but kobayashi stopped on track hampering their morning efforts. I expect the late afternoon glory runs to tell us a bit more...until a red flag comes in with minutes to go.

[truefan72]

Hamilton on a long long run, A race sim and his times compared to others on the race sims is about .300sec quicker. Impressive regardless. I think they are dialing that Mclaren in real nice.

Meanwhile Schumi is also on a long run albeit a tad bit slower per lap. Funny line from autosport live:
14:43 After five laps stuck under Schumacher's rear wing, Hamilton is past and into clear air.
14:39 Hamilton's times have slowed as he has got stuck behind Schumacher.


Ferrari also on a longish stint

[Saint Devote]

And maybe not even in Sakhir, mate. If the season is as close as it seems it may look like the old seasons in CART, with many different winners and contenders on different weekends, like Merc vs McMerc in Bahrain and Ferrari vs Red Bull in Melbourne...

Absolutely :D

And then there is the "four grands prix in four weeks" with everyone having to make do with what they have far away from their home bases until Catalunya comes up.

I think it will be superb once again [and they do not happen too often] to have a season for a change where by the time of Interlagos there would be three or four drivers from different teams ALL within several points of each other.

Only one of the best drivers in a good car will be missing when he ought to be on the grid - Kimi.

[Robinho]

long runs looking pretty equal overall for the big boys, ultimate pace really close, 8 drivers (7 cars) within half a second in top pace - will be interested to see what Renault do for a fast lap this afternoon too.

[Saint Devote]

From Motorsport.com news:
Mad Max's own reaction [to Demented di Montezemolo's comments] was predictable, telling a select few British press men last week that Ferrari is like "a frumpy old woman at a dance who sees a couple of pretty young girls come in and they resent it".

:-]
Of course Ferrari's CEO will be resentful - exactly how will he go about explaining to the FIAT board the amounts of money the Scuderia "requires" to go racing, if the object of his affection, Virgin-Cosworth [what a great name - so F1] as well as Lotus-Cosworth goes well in 2010?

The clock is ticking Luca - better read up on Guy Edwards' little book of excuses!

[Dave B]

A red flag with 14 minutes to go! Who'll provide the now-traditional red flag in the dying moments of the final session?!

[DazzlaF1]

A red flag with 14 minutes to go! Who'll provide the now-traditional red flag in the dying moments of the final session?!

Kovalainen stopped out on circuit

[truefan72]

...and predictably, the sessions has been stopped with 2 minutes to go

[Dave B]

That was the earlier one - now there's been yet another with just seconds to go and predictably the session's been ended!

That's it for 2010 testing.


1 Hamilton McLaren 1m20.472s
2 Webber Red Bull 1m20.496s +0.024
3 Massa Ferrari 1m20.539s +0.067
4 Sutil Force India 1m20.611s +0.139
5 Vettel Red Bull 1m20.667s +0.195
6 Schumacher Mercedes 1m20.745s +0.273
7 Barrichello Williams 1m20.870s +0.398
8 Kobayashi Sauber 1m20.911s +0.439
9 Buemi Toro Rosso 1m22.135s +1.663
10 Kubica Renault 1m23.175s +2.703
11 Kovalainen Lotus 1m25.251s +4.779
12 Di Grassi Virgin 1m26.160s +5.688

[truefan72]

Its going to be a close first race.

13 days to go!

[Saint Devote]

I am sure Vitaly Petrov IS pleased with how the Catalunya testing went - he was quicker than Robert Kubica.

Mclaren drivers - Button at Jerez and Hamilton at Catlunya - were quickest overall.

Vettel and Webber - essentially equal. Same for Rosberg and Schumacher, Massa and Alonso.

[52Paddy]

It's hard to tell who is going to be cream of the crop when the season starts. There are so many possibilities from Ferrari, McLaren, Sauber, Red Bull and Mercedes with possible surprises from Williams, Force India and Toro Rosso. On the other hand, I do expect Lotus and Virgin to be at the back of the pack for the initial few races at least and Renault just ahead of them.

I have a hunch that this will be one epic season - I just hope we're not disappointed in Bahrain. *crosses fingers*

[truefan72]

It's hard to tell who is going to be cream of the crop when the season starts. There are so many possibilities from Ferrari, McLaren, Sauber, Red Bull and Mercedes with possible surprises from Williams, Force India and Toro Rosso. On the other hand, I do expect Lotus and Virgin to be at the back of the pack for the initial few races at least and Renault just ahead of them.

I have a hunch that this will be one epic season - I just hope we're not disappointed in Bahrain. *crosses fingers*

me too.

i can't recall a time in all my years of F1 watching that I was this unsure of how the first races let alone the season is going to unfold. It is less about surprises than about, everyone genuinely being really good, drivers cars etc. I got this weird feeling of pure uncertainty, nervous anticipation and giddiness. It's like going backstage to the dressing rooms at the miss universe contest, yeah there are one of two women that you really like but the bevy of beauties provides a sensory overload. That's how I feel about F1 2010. So many stories, so many subplots, so many good drivers and so many good cars.

[K-Pu]

I don´t know if I have said this before here, but this is the best pre-season I´ve ever seen, and 2010 will be a great one!

[Sonic]

That was the earlier one - now there's been yet another with just seconds to go and predictably the session's been ended!

That's it for 2010 testing.


1 Hamilton McLaren 1m20.472s
2 Webber Red Bull 1m20.496s +0.024
3 Massa Ferrari 1m20.539s +0.067
4 Sutil Force India 1m20.611s +0.139
5 Vettel Red Bull 1m20.667s +0.195
6 Schumacher Mercedes 1m20.745s +0.273
7 Barrichello Williams 1m20.870s +0.398
8 Kobayashi Sauber 1m20.911s +0.439
9 Buemi Toro Rosso 1m22.135s +1.663
10 Kubica Renault 1m23.175s +2.703
11 Kovalainen Lotus 1m25.251s +4.779
12 Di Grassi Virgin 1m26.160s +5.688

Wow, just WOW! This is going to be an epic legendary season of justice! Good times!

[F1boat]

me too.

i can't recall a time in all my years of F1 watching that I was this unsure of how the first races let alone the season is going to unfold. It is less about surprises than about, everyone genuinely being really good, drivers cars etc. I got this weird feeling of pure uncertainty, nervous anticipation and giddiness. It's like going backstage to the dressing rooms at the miss universe contest, yeah there are one of two women that you really like but the bevy of beauties provides a sensory overload. That's how I feel about F1 2010. So many stories, so many subplots, so many good drivers and so many good cars.

Very cool post, truefan!

[Sonic]

Sidebar; it seems that Brawn is (so far) keeping his promise and treating both drivers as equals. Their best laps (which we must assume are low fuel quali simulations) are 0.1s apart.

[Saint Devote]

Sidebar; it seems that Brawn is (so far) keeping his promise and treating both drivers as equals. Their best laps (which we must assume are low fuel quali simulations) are 0.1s apart.

There is no reason not to as the racing hasn't started yet.

[jens]

The last day of testing has certainly created some very interesting results, because it looks like numerous teams have tried a quali-simulation and as the overall times show, it's mighty close. McLaren, Ferrari and Red Bull are almost inseparable and the chasers (Force India, Mercedes, etc) are all right behind ready and capable of capitalizing on any miscalculation the expected top teams might make. Actually I don't remember a winter testing, which saw as many as three teams being basically on the same level! Usually 1-2 teams have emerged above others in pre-season. All of this is just plain awesome! Hopefully the new teams won't have to feel lonely at the back for too long and will be capable of joining the tight and exciting battles of the established teams sooner or later. :)

The whole situation will create especially extremely tense qualifying battles as I suspect the new rules will increase the importance of Saturdays. Already in 2008 on several circuits the Top10 were within 0,5 seconds and it looks like it could be even tighter than that now. The nerves of racing drivers will be put to an astonishing test to try to pull out perfect laps throughout qualifying!

[Sonic]

There is no reason not to as the racing hasn't started yet.

Well that's not true. According to someone who has been there and done that - Mr J Herbert, the first time he tested in '95 he was close to Schu's pace but from that moment on it became a closed shop and he never saw a scrap of data from the other side of the garage to assist him.

Now I'm not trying to suggest Herbs would have beaten MS, but that was just testing too and equal treatment was not given there so I applaud Brawn for so far giving both drivers a fair shot - may the best German win ;)

[DazzlaF1]

I have to agree with the consensus on here, I said back at the end of last season that 2010 could be arguably one of the best and most unpredictable seasons in recent years, and pre-season testing has only reinforced that belief.

I cant wait now for Bahrain

[Saint Devote]

Well that's not true. According to someone who has been there and done that - Mr J Herbert, the first time he tested in '95 he was close to Schu's pace but from that moment on it became a closed shop and he never saw a scrap of data from the other side of the garage to assist him.

Now I'm not trying to suggest Herbs would have beaten MS, but that was just testing too and equal treatment was not given there so I applaud Brawn for so far giving both drivers a fair shot - may the best German win ;)

You are referring to Flavio. Ross Brawn does not manage that way. If Schumacher wins three out of the first six races and Rosberg is breathless the situation will change.

Although Schumacher has his own way and he is a master at building his team to a point where EVERYONE else will have to follow.

Eddie Cheever said that being teammate to Alain Prost at Renault was like going through a food processor - everytime Eddie gained on Prost, Alain would uo the ante even further.

Schumacher will do the same. Rosberg is I think on for the bumpiest ride of his life! If he just keeps up, he will be doing extremely well.

[steveaki13]

Still 12 odd days to go! Time seems to be going so slowly now. :mad:

[jens]

Still 12 odd days to go! Time seems to be going so slowly now. :mad:

Oddly enough the time seems to be going too quickly for me - only 12 days?! :eek: Probably I've been concentrated on other issues "too much", so as a consequence the F1 season is nearing at a rapid pace. I'm not sure I'm ready yet. :D

[truefan72]

Very cool post, truefan!

:)

what can I say. love the ladies

[truefan72]

There is no reason not to as the racing hasn't started yet.

lol, A different picture will emerge after the first few races. If there is one thing you can rely on Brawn to do, is favoring one driver early and building a season's worth of strategy around it. His worst nightmare will be a quick Nico and disgruntled MSC feeling that all hands on deck should be serving his needs. After all he didn't come out of Retirement to play second fiddle. (I for one hope he came back just for the fun of racing, competing at the highest level, and ending his career his way vs seeking to emulate the old Ferrari ways)

[Saint Devote]

lol, A different picture will emerge after the first few races. If there is one thing you can rely on Brawn to do, is favoring one driver early and building a season's worth of strategy around it. His worst nightmare will be a quick Nico and disgruntled MSC feeling that all hands on deck should be serving his needs. After all he didn't come out of Retirement to play second fiddle. (I for one hope he came back just for the fun of racing, competing at the highest level, and ending his career his way vs seeking to emulate the old Ferrari ways)

Michael Schumacher came back to win. If you know who Schumi is then you understand the full nature of that statement.

To Nico I say, lose ALL your Monte Carlo refinement because your worst racing nightmare is about to happen - become a street fighter because you are about to enter battle against El Toro and he gives no quarter, especially when it comes to teammates. But he does it in a very nice way :D :vader:

[F1boat]

I wonder if Michael is not as fast as before, whether he will try to help Nico or just retire mid-season. For now I have to say that Nico looks very fast, at least in testing. I personally prefer Michael to win, but on track and I'd be happy if Nico scores a win this season.

[SGWilko]

Ross Brawn's primary concern is a winning car.

Then, he will put max effort behind the driver that emerges the fastest after a few races.

The drivers are paid handsomely, and if they get beaten, they can go buy a chocolate factory to console themselves!

The era that Ross was at Ferrari was win at all costs 'a la Todt' - understandable considering the Scuderia had won bugger all for 2 decades, designing shyte cars and getting through more team management personell that your average CHAV has tracksuits in the cupboard.....

[Saint Devote]

I wonder if Michael is not as fast as before, whether he will try to help Nico or just retire mid-season. For now I have to say that Nico looks very fast, at least in testing. I personally prefer Michael to win, but on track and I'd be happy if Nico scores a win this season.

Never mind quickest - you are referring to Schumi who while I do not consider the greatest ever [at least unless he wins an 8th] - he is the greatest RACE driver in my view.

Today the only driver I think that can beat him in changing race conditions and changing car handling is Alonso.

Schumi is not a quitter and given his ability and experience will probably be the one driver at least where as the race progesesses and the car becomes lighter, the tyres better he will become stronger.

[Sonic]

Ross has already gone on record saying Schu is much the same as he was before so I do not expect him to quit. That said I do not expect him to do a farewell season like Lauda or Hill did when they were clearly no longer enjoying it or willing to take the risks - if Schumacher notices his form dipping in, say, season 3 of his comeback he may well call it a day there and then.

[52Paddy]

Ross has already gone on record saying Schu is much the same as he was before so I do not expect him to quit. That said I do not expect him to do a farewell season like Lauda or Hill did when they were clearly no longer enjoying it or willing to take the risks - if Schumacher notices his form dipping in, say, season 3 of his comeback he may well call it a day there and then.

Conversely, if he won an 8th title in season 1 or 2 of his comeback, would you (plural) expect him to quit at that high point or keep going until his contract expires?

It would a fantastic career review if Schumacher came back to win a title (showing the young guns that this wise old goat still has what it takes) and then leave with no trace of being uncompetitive (or less competitive than he was in the middle of the naughties).

Personally myself, I don't expect him to be a title challenger but I do expect him to win races and finish on the podium regularly enough.

[truefan72]

Never mind quickest - you are referring to Schumi who while I do not consider the greatest ever [at least unless he wins an 8th] - he is the greatest RACE driver in my view.


what?

I don't like schumi either per say but his records stand for themselves and he is unquestionably the greatest driver ever by any statistical measurment and performance.

A simple wiki record
Formula One records

As of the end of the 2009 Formula One season, Michael Schumacher holds the following F1 records:
Record Number
Championship titles 7 (1994, 1995, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004)
Consecutive titles 5 (2000–2004)
Race victories 91
Consecutive wins[3] 7 (2004, Europe–Hungary)
Wins with one team 72 (Ferrari)
Wins at same GP 8 (France)
Wins at different GPs 22
Longest Time between first and last wins 14 years, 1 month and 2 days
Second places 43
Podiums (Top 3) 154
Consecutive podium finishes 19 (US 2001–Japan 2002)
Points finishes 190
Consecutive points finishes 24 (Hungary 2001–Malaysia 2003)
Laps leading 4741 (22,155 km)[149]
Pole positions 68
Front row starts 115
Fastest laps 76
Doubles (Pole and win) 40
Perfect Score (Pole, fastest lap and win) 22
Championship points 1,369
Most points in a season for a runner-up 121 (2006)
Most wins in a season for a runner-up[4] 7 (2006)
Wins at Indianapolis (any racing class) 5
Wins at Monza (Formula One) 5
Wins in a season 13 (72%) (2004)
Fastest laps in a season[5] 10 (2004)
Points scored in a season 148 (82% of Max available) (2004)
Podium finishes in a season 17 (100%) (2002)
Championship won with most races left 6 (2002)
Consecutive years with a win 15 (1992–2006)
Consecutive days as champion 1813 (from 8 October 2000 until 25 September 2005)

i may not like his style or his attitude, but I have to respect his accomplishments in the sport which are staggering. So I'm not sure why winning one more championship above his already record 7 would be the deciding factor for you.

But I guess this discussion belongs in a different thread, just could not help myself :)

[truefan72]

Conversely, if he won an 8th title in season 1 or 2 of his comeback, would you (plural) expect him to quit at that high point or keep going until his contract expires?

It would a fantastic career review if Schumacher came back to win a title (showing the young guns that this wise old goat still has what it takes) and then leave with no trace of being uncompetitive (or less competitive than he was in the middle of the naughties).

Myself, I don't expect him to be a title challenger but I do expect him to win races and finish on the podium regularly enough.

I think he has as good a shot as any to win the title in 2010. The title realistically can be won by 8-9 guys this year. I do think if he wins the WDC he will retire. Conversely after a grueling 19 race season with all the media attention and stuff. I think if he does very well, he might retire this or next year and take an ownership stake in Mercedes GP team. 2 years max I say. Then there will be the Nico/Nico team at Mercedes.

[F1boat]

I think he has as good a shot as any to win the title in 2010. The title realistically can be won by 8-9 guys this year. I do think if he wins the WDC he will retire. Conversely after a grueling 19 race season with all the media attention and stuff. I think if he does very well, he might retire this or next year and take an ownership stake in Mercedes GP team. 2 years max I say. Then there will be the Nico/Nico team at Mercedes.

Interesting prediction.

[Saint Devote]

Schumacher is not the greatest by percentages. Jim Clark did better than both Senna and Schumacher during a time when the cars were far more fragile, the driver's ability was more vital and the competition was extremely tough.

And all that from a career tragically, prematurely ended and only 72 grands prix. Who knows how much greater he would have been.

In addition, Clark was a multi-disciplined driver and won the Indy 500 during its heyday.

For me, Jim Clark will always be the greatest racing driver - and he was a "nice bloke" as well.

[F1boat]

I don't believe in what ifs however. What happened, happened and for me history proves that there were two super dominant drivers, which utterly dominated their era - Michael and Juan Manuel. Actually I think that Fangio has the best percentage? Despite that, every era has its own difficulties and to compare drivers from different eras its a bit like to compare circuit and rally drivers.

[truefan72]

I don't believe in what ifs however. What happened, happened and for me history proves that there were two super dominant drivers, which utterly dominated their era - Michael and Juan Manuel. Actually I think that Fangio has the best percentage? Despite that, every era has its own difficulties and to compare drivers from different eras its a bit like to compare circuit and rally drivers.

point well taken ;)

[turismo6]

Has anyone posted about Red Bulls fake exhaust outlets?

Stickers applied to the rear bodywork, while the real exhaust is mounted alot lower...

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/formula-1-news/229140/fake-red-bull-exhaust-outlets-exposed/

[Saint Devote]

I don't believe in what ifs however. What happened, happened and for me history proves that there were two super dominant drivers, which utterly dominated their era - Michael and Juan Manuel. Actually I think that Fangio has the best percentage? Despite that, every era has its own difficulties and to compare drivers from different eras its a bit like to compare circuit and rally drivers.

So ignore what ifs - Clark has the best percentages between Senna and Schumacher and that was the issue here.

Clark was also dominant during his championship period - he won 70% and 67% of his races and poles in 1963 and 1965 AND in 1965 he was so dominant that he skipped the Monaco GP and won the Indy 500! Thats kewl baby, real kewl :s mokin:

Introduce Fangio by all means - he was even more dominant and Senna burst into tears when he met him, considering him to be the best ever. I do not mind someone disagreeing over Fangio.

I disagree that comparing drivers from different eras is not valid.

The percentages tell the truth.

[Sonic]

Has anyone posted about Red Bulls fake exhaust outlets?

Stickers applied to the rear bodywork, while the real exhaust is mounted alot lower...

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/formula-1-news/229140/fake-red-bull-exhaust-outlets-exposed/

LOL Red Bull! :D

So another CoG master stroke from Newey and co? Or is this how they've created the space for a true DDD withpull rod rear suspension?

[rayburn]

Schumacher is not the greatest by percentages. Jim Clark did better than both Senna and Schumacher during a time when the cars were far more fragile, the driver's ability was more vital and the competition was extremely tough.

And all that from a career tragically, prematurely ended and only 72 grands prix. Who knows how much greater he would have been.

In addition, Clark was a multi-disciplined driver and won the Indy 500 during its heyday.

For me, Jim Clark will always be the greatest racing driver - and he was a "nice bloke" as well.

He was my boyhood hero as well, which is why he will always be the best for me, no matter what anyone on here says! :)


So ignore what ifs - Clark has the best percentages between Senna and Schumacher and that was the issue here.

Clark was also dominant during his championship period - he won 70% and 67% of his races and poles in 1963 and 1965 AND in 1965 he was so dominant that he skipped the Monaco GP and won the Indy 500! Thats kewl baby, real kewl :s mokin:

Introduce Fangio by all means - he was even more dominant and Senna burst into tears when he met him, considering him to be the best ever. I do not mind someone disagreeing over Fangio.

I disagree that comparing drivers from different eras is not valid.

The percentages tell the truth.

Well not always they don't, a good guide but not completely definitive, witness the much greater reliability of todays cars, for instance.

Apologies for going off on a tangent on this thread.....

[wedge]

Can't remember where I read it, possibly James Allen, but apparently Schumi and Hamilton were sizing each other up, following each other on Sunday!

Can't wait for Bahrain!

[henners88]

http://blogs.news.sky.com/sportslines/Post:632a9a10-3574-4453-9d24-ce80c8d8e66d

[DazzlaF1]

Dont know how much use this is but heres a top 10 list of drivers times (taking the averages of the 2 Jerez sessions and the Barcelona session) including where the newbies stand, it might suprise you who is top of the pile

TOP 10 AVERAGE

1. Kamui Kobayashi - Sauber ................ 1m 20.016
2. Jenson Button - McLaren ................ + 0.297
3. Nico Rosberg - Mercedes ................ + 0.542
4. Mark Webber - Red Bull ................ + 0.596
5. Fernando Alonso - Ferrari ................ + 0.709
6. Jaime Alguersuari - Toro Rosso ................ + 0.831
7. Robert Kubica - Renault ................ + 0.866
8. Niko Hulkenberg - Williams ................ + 0.875
9. Adrian Sutil - Force India ................ + 0.894
10. Michael Schumacher - Mercedes ................ + 0.915
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
19. Timo Glock - Virgin ................ + 3.746
20. Jarno Trulli - Lotus ................ + 4.248
21. Heikki Kovalainen - Lotus ............... + 4.370
22. Lucas di Grassi - Virgin ................ + 6.526

[F1boat]

I disagree that comparing drivers from different eras is not valid.

The percentages tell the truth.

I disagree. If we follow this way of thinking, the greatest F1 team is "Brawn GP" They won a 100% of the world championships they entered. IMO the total of championships is not to be taken lightly and that's why I believe that if you can point one greatest driver (which is a bit ridiculous IMO) it should be Michael.

[Saint Devote]

I disagree. If we follow this way of thinking, the greatest F1 team is "Brawn GP" They won a 100% of the world championships they entered. IMO the total of championships is not to be taken lightly and that's why I believe that if you can point one greatest driver (which is a bit ridiculous IMO) it should be Michael.

If you seek to apply it to teams then Brawn is not a new team because strictly speaking the BGP 01 would have been the 2009 Honda albeit with a different engine.

I dont look at championships as a measure because they are quirky things given that Stirling Moss has good percentages but no championship.

[Saint Devote]

He was my boyhood hero as well, which is why he will always be the best for me, no matter what anyone on here says! :)



Well not always they don't, a good guide but not completely definitive, witness the much greater reliability of todays cars, for instance.

Apologies for going off on a tangent on this thread.....

Actually you defend my earlier point I made about era. Clark was exceptional.

[F1boat]

If you seek to apply it to teams then Brawn is not a new team because strictly speaking the BGP 01 would have been the 2009 Honda albeit with a different engine.

I dont look at championships as a measure because they are quirky things given that Stirling Moss has good percentages but no championship.

And IMO 7 or 5 is better than 0 or 2. I guess that everybody has different opinions :)

[f1indiablog]

Thank you all F1 fnas who made this thread the most viewed thread in February