Pastrana does it again

[GigiGalliNo1]

If anyone is interested in his insane antics. And sure why not, bring on the arguments here too :p

http://www.redbullusa.com/cs/Satellite/en_US/Video/Travis-Sets-the-Bar-at-269-Feet-021242807325245?p=1242797773354

(you can move this thread else where if needed)

[grugsticles]

I saw this in the local news (a feat in itself) and why I applaud his success in getting the record, I must voice my distaste for his stupidity.
I mean, all well and good to go for a jump... in a rally car... over a river... BUT, to have such little run off that he is then forced to crash the car sideways in order to stop - not great publicity.
Now you will have all the young wanna-be Ken Blocks not only tearing up unused carparks/vacant lots/airfields but also thinking they can perform huge jumps with little stopping area and expect to survive.

Just my opinion.

[Simmi]

I think the problem with the landing was that the run-off surface just wasn't suitable. Cool jump though great spectacle etc.

I don't think this really does anything for rallying - good or bad. I think the whole thing is about a car doing the jump and a rally car is just the best tool for the job. The exposure doesn't affect the sport IMO.

I don't have a problem with it but if I see works teams or drivers start getting involved then I will start to worry.

[anthonyvop]

I saw this in the local news (a feat in itself) and why I applaud his success in getting the record, I must voice my distaste for his stupidity.
I mean, all well and good to go for a jump... in a rally car... over a river... BUT, to have such little run off that he is then forced to crash the car sideways in order to stop - not great publicity.
Now you will have all the young wanna-be Ken Blocks not only tearing up unused carparks/vacant lots/airfields but also thinking they can perform huge jumps with little stopping area and expect to survive.

Just my opinion.

Yea, Young people never do stupid things.

Of course it is good publicity. If it brings even one more fan then it is good publicity.
It is Good publicity for: Red Bull. Travis Pastrana, Subaru, Rally America and rally in general.

[anthonyvop]

Here is the vid of the jump in case anyone missed it.

http://www.rallybuzz.com/pastrana-world-record-jump/

[Doug Woods]

So, for all of you who have made negative posts on the jump (and for those of you who will), consider this.

Say, early in 2009, Red Bull has approached Citroen with this silly idea. On New Year's Eve, at the stroke of midnight, they want to have Seb Loeb jump his Citroen rally car across the Seine in the middle of Paris. It will be broadcast live on French national television for 1 hour and 20 minutes and they hope to pack downtown Paris with spectators. And, since they are doing it, why not try for a world record rally car jump?

What do you think Citroen and Loeb would have done?

How would all of you have reacted (while you were watching on TV) when they pulled it off like clockwork.

I think I know the answer.

Funny how it is bad for rallying when it is Pastrana and Subaru who have the guts to step up and do something like this.

[N.O.T]

great publicity....bring him to wrc now...

[Rallyper]

great publicity....bring him to wrc now...

Well hasn´t he tried some PWRC events with no sucess. I guess he´s better on jumpin than driving on tricky special stages... :p :

[Simmi]

So, for all of you who have made negative posts on the jump (and for those of you who will), consider this.

Say, early in 2009, Red Bull has approached Citroen with this silly idea. On New Year's Eve, at the stroke of midnight, they want to have Seb Loeb jump his Citroen rally car across the Seine in the middle of Paris. It will be broadcast live on French national television for 1 hour and 20 minutes and they hope to pack downtown Paris with spectators. And, since they are doing it, why not try for a world record rally car jump?

What do you think Citroen and Loeb would have done?

How would all of you have reacted (while you were watching on TV) when they pulled it off like clockwork.

I think I know the answer.

Funny how it is bad for rallying when it is Pastrana and Subaru who have the guts to step up and do something like this.

Well when the six-time world champ is being asked to risk life and limb for a sponsor opportunity then that is something else. I imagine Citroen wouldn't go for it. I imagine Loeb would treat the idea with complete distain. I try to keep an open mind about this stuff but I still always seem to end up sounding negative. That's purely because I feel this stuff tends to benefit the sponsor more than the sport. The only thing the casual fan sees is Red Bull.

If you want to do something commercial to benefit the sport then ISC could organise a demonstration in a busy city centre and show the cars off in a way that the public can get close to. Formula 1 teams do this. The DTM and BTCC series also arrange similar things. It gives people who wouldn't normally get an opportunity the chance to see the speed and sound of the cars.

[Josti]

It's best to just not take these things serious anymore.

Doug, I couldn't care less if a WRC make or driver does such a thing. It would rather get on my nerves.

I agree with Simmi, it benefits the sponsor (and Mr. Pastrana) more than it does the sport, which is weird actually, because this stunt has no relation to rallying other than the car.

[N.O.T]

Well hasn´t he tried some PWRC events with no sucess. I guess he´s better on jumpin than driving on tricky special stages... :p :

yes but its great publicity....isn;t this what it matters nowadays ?? our sport is dead so the only solution is more clowns to join it like Block Kimi pastrana to save it....

[Doug Woods]

It's best to just not take these things serious anymore.

Doug, I couldn't care less if a WRC make or driver does such a thing. It would rather get on my nerves.

I agree with Simmi, it benefits the sponsor (and Mr. Pastrana) more than it does the sport, which is weird actually, because this stunt has no relation to rallying other than the car.

Too bad that you only get to see a two minute clip of the jump on the internet.

The show was 80 minutes long and had features on how the jump was constructed, the details of the rally car, background stories on Travis, rallying, etc. The words "rally" and "rallying" were being mentioned continuously.

This show was big time exposure for our sport, for Subaru, for Travis and, of course, for Red Bull. Now, I really don't care if it was not "real" rallying. It helps keep some important people, manufacturers and sponsors in the sport in the USA and it also helps others trying to find manufacturer and sponsor support.

Not sure how much Red Bull spent on organizing this event (the pre-event preparations and logistics are actually quite mind-boggling). Many, many millions. Perhaps close to what they spend to sponsor Citroen for a season.

[anthonyvop]

Did the jump hurt the sport of Rally in any way?
Did the jump increase or decrease the public interest in Rally?


The answers are No and increased.

[anthonyvop]

Well hasn´t he tried some PWRC events with no sucess. I guess he´s better on jumpin than driving on tricky special stages... :p :

Actually he did fairly well with a non-competitive team on roads he had never seen before.
There were plans to bring him to the WRC with Subaru but they left the series Pastrana is still signed with Subaru North America so that precludes him from driving in another make.

[Woodeye]

Why the hell are some people taking this so dead seriously? No harm is done to anyone I guess. :) I was a great jump for sure, but no match to Markko Märtin in Neste Rally few years ago. (I'm sure someone will find a link to it)

As Doug said here, most of the people like myself have seen only 2 mins out of 80 mins. If the remaining 78 mins are used to even get some publicity to the sport, I think it's splended.

[tmx]

Okay, now try to do an 82meter jump on a Finland stage at 180kph+, then I'll be impressed.

[Josti]

Too bad that you only get to see a two minute clip of the jump on the internet.

The show was 80 minutes long and had features on how the jump was constructed, the details of the rally car, background stories on Travis, rallying, etc. The words "rally" and "rallying" were being mentioned continuously.

This show was big time exposure for our sport, for Subaru, for Travis and, of course, for Red Bull. Now, I really don't care if it was not "real" rallying. It helps keep some important people, manufacturers and sponsors in the sport in the USA and it also helps others trying to find manufacturer and sponsor support.

Not sure how much Red Bull spent on organizing this event (the pre-event preparations and logistics are actually quite mind-boggling). Many, many millions. Perhaps close to what they spend to sponsor Citroen for a season.

Too bad indeed. But this is the only image I get here in Europe, so how much of a surprise is it really to get these kind of reactions on a rally forum?

I actually do care that it's not real rallying, at least, if that's what their trying to represent with this show. Seriously, how much does - a car jumping over a specially constructed ramp under big show lights to get some kind of record - holds any relation to the sport we know as rallying?

If Pastrana wants to trie to put rallying on the map in the USA, why doesn't he take his Red Bull millions to contest in the WRC?

[Woodeye]

If Pastrana wants to trie to put rallying on the map in the USA, why doesn't he take his Red Bull millions to contest in the WRC?

Because the BIG crowd over there have no idea what WRC is, maybe? It's all about the show in US, they have no history in WRC whatsoever, and maybe with tricks like these they will have something in the future? I don't know, but if Pastrana gives it a try, why not?

Or then it might be that he is just having fun.

[Josti]

Because the BIG crowd over there have no idea what WRC is, maybe? It's all about the show in US, they have no history in WRC whatsoever, and maybe with tricks like these they will have something in the future? I don't know, but if Pastrana gives it a try, why not?

Or then it might be that he is just having fun.

Well, they do have some history, albeit of course little with drivers success (John Buffum did quite well with private cars now and then), and of course the US did hold a WRC event once.

But as far as rallying goes, shouldn't the WRC be the pinnacle? Why not focus to promote that?

[Woodeye]

Well, they do have some history, albeit of course little with drivers success (John Buffum did quite well with private cars now and then), and of course the US did hold a WRC event once.

But as far as rallying goes, shouldn't the WRC be the pinnacle? Why not focus to promote that?

Again, if you go and ask the BIG crowd who is John Buffum, I guess you would get a lot of guesses pointing to NBA and NFL maybe. :)

I agree that the WRC should be the pinnacle. And maybe the best thing to do to promote something that doesn't exist in US is to have an embassador like Mr. Pastrana to bring it to spotlight first, then get a WRC event with same Mr participating (and with vide coverage) and voilá, you've brought WRC again to US.

I'm available for marketing consulting if anyone in US is interested. :D

[Josti]

Again, if you go and ask the BIG crowd who is John Buffum, I guess you would get a lot of guesses pointing to NBA and NFL maybe. :)


Obviously, but I also said the US had it's own WRC event once, that's quite something.



I agree that the WRC should be the pinnacle. And maybe the best thing to do to promote something that doesn't exist in US is to have an embassador like Mr. Pastrana to bring it to spotlight first, then get a WRC event with same Mr participating (and with vide coverage) and voilá, you've brought WRC again to US.


But that takes us back to the original problem (at least in my eyes), that is the way they are trying to promote it.

[Simmi]

Well, they do have some history, albeit of course little with drivers success (John Buffum did quite well with private cars now and then), and of course the US did hold a WRC event once.

But as far as rallying goes, shouldn't the WRC be the pinnacle? Why not focus to promote that?

I think the WRC holds nothing really for an American sponsor. Doesn't seem to have much of a presence on television and also hasn't held a round there in 20 years or so. There are more profitable and attention grabbing means of promotion than the WRC.

I think this jump will probably be of a benefit to rallying in the States. It might make Red Bull or Subaru USA extend their contracts or something. It might mean they provide money for bigger ramps at the X-Games. As can be seen by the reaction on here it does literally nothing for the sport in Europe or the rest of the world. It helps make the US rallying bubble that bit bigger. Which is fine until someone tries to jump something so crazy that someone gets injured. A moving train perhaps? Or Ken Block tries to powerdrift underneath a jumbo jet as it takes off. I'm sure that would probably grab mainstream worldwide attention. Then it would be "rallying". But I'm exaggerating.

I think the problem people have is that this could feasibly bring in heaps of exposure and sponsors on the pretence that rallying is something that it is not. And these these stunts will only serve to mean that we will see more of this stuff. I personally think that is where the money will go. Not on rallying but on jumping over, into and on to of stuff. But when the energy drinks move onto their next extreme fad then you aren't left with much.

I have no problem with Travis Pastrana, the jump or anyone trying to push the boundaries. I just think it is naive to say it benefits the sport.

[Tomi]

I'm available for marketing consulting if anyone in US is interested. :D

sure, if you can stand on your head and whistle, the driving skill is not so important.

[Woodeye]

I have no problem with Travis Pastrana, the jump or anyone trying to push the boundaries. I just think it is naive to say it benefits the sport.

I think it's just as naive to say that this might harm the sport.


sure, if you can stand on your head and whistle, the driving skill is not so important.

Unfortunately I can only whistle. :(

[Tomi]

Again, if you go and ask the BIG crowd who is John Buffum, I guess you would get a lot of guesses pointing to NBA and NFL maybe. :)

Maybe so, but he was a reasonable driver, best way to promote is to get a guy like Buffum was, calculated stunts takes you nowhere, i dont belive pastrana or bloke has what it takes, better to find a young guy with sponsors who throws all in the game.

[Simmi]

I think it's just as naive to say that this might harm the sport.


I can't seem to find anything in my post about me saying it harms the sport.

I said it doesn't do anything for the sport outside of America. It does nothing as in it makes no impact what so ever. So not harming and not improving.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Wonder what the late Colin McRae would have done with Rallying in the USA.

Would have been good with Pastroni and Block.

[Rally_Rocks]

Wow, I'm a huge rally fan, but watching that video quite literaly took my breath away! Who cares that it's not proper rallying, it's one of the most dramatic and exciting things I've ever seen anyone do in a car.

Those of you who knock Travis need a bit if a wake up call. Thus guy is pure gold, and he's as rally mad as anyone. What he does now, a whole generation of kids around the world grow up wanting to do. The guy is a genuine superstar. At a time where we have probably the greatest driver who ever lived able to walk down most high streets of the world unrecognised, we need all the stars we can get.

I say embrace Travus and Ken, marvel at what they do and be thankful for all the publicity our sport receives because of them.

[Tomi]

Wow, I'm a huge rally fan, but watching that video quite literaly took my breath away! Who cares that it's not proper rallying, it's one of the most dramatic and exciting things I've ever seen anyone do in a car.

Those of you who knock Travis need a bit if a wake up call. Thus guy is pure gold, and he's as rally mad as anyone. What he does now, a whole generation of kids around the world grow up wanting to do. The guy is a genuine superstar. At a time where we have probably the greatest driver who ever lived able to walk down most high streets of the world unrecognised, we need all the stars we can get.

I say embrace Travus and Ken, marvel at what they do and be thankful for all the publicity our sport receives because of them.

No hard feelings, but i think you slightly exaggerate pastranas meaning what comes to rally, also maybe your world is a bit too small.

[wotaguy]

in ref to Colin Mcrae, well he did take part in X games in 2006 wasnt it? .

[Simmi]

I love the debate this stuff always brings up. I agree with Rally_Rocks about Travis being a great personality. It's pretty much impossible not to like the guy. His enthusiasm is infectious and he is basically a sponsors dream. He is genuinely a rallying fan.

But I still maintain stunts/PR of this nature only serve to mean more money goes into performing more of the same. So this new warped 'Americanized' genre of rallying will flourish but I'm not sure how it will help you're average American privateer. They may have given rallying some coverage on the television build-up but what Red Bull are surely after are the millions of internet hits and in these instances rallying is very much secondary in the 2min clip.

This isn't me saying this hurts the sport of rallying. I'm just lost as to how this is supposed to relate back in any way to a rally stage to be of any real benefit. It's just so far removed from reality the car is secondary to the spectacle of the jump.

[Rally_Rocks]

Tomi, I'll try and explain this again. Pastrana is potentially our greatest global ambassador. Not in terms of his ability, but in terms of his appeal. He is in the top ten most recognisable celebrities in the states and his chosen sport is rallying. The challenge is how does our sport embrace and exploit this.

To be honest I'm not sure why I've bothered responding to your post, because if you can't get excited by the video of what Pastrana achieved there's no hope for you.

[Brother John]

Wow, I'm a huge rally fan, but watching that video quite literaly took my breath away! Who cares that it's not proper rallying, it's one of the most dramatic and exciting things I've ever seen anyone do in a car.

Those of you who knock Travis need a bit if a wake up call. Thus guy is pure gold, and he's as rally mad as anyone. What he does now, a whole generation of kids around the world grow up wanting to do. The guy is a genuine superstar. At a time where we have probably the greatest driver who ever lived able to walk down most high streets of the world unrecognised, we need all the stars we can get.

I say embrace Travus and Ken, marvel at what they do and be thankful for all the publicity our sport receives because of them.

I think that you yourself must firstly discover what real rally meant. :(

[Simmi]

Tomi, I'll try and explain this again. Pastrana is potentially our greatest global ambassador. Not in terms of his ability, but in terms of his appeal. He is in the top ten most recognisable celebrities in the states and his chosen sport is rallying. The challenge is how does our sport embrace and exploit this.


I think to be honest it's more like how does his sponsor embrace and exploit this. And we've seen the answer. They could send him off to do selected rounds of the WRC but I don't see them doing it to be honest.

[Tomi]

Tomi, I'll try and explain this again. Pastrana is potentially our greatest global ambassador.

Who is our? First of all dont you think that to be an ambassdor of sport the first requairments would be the ability to drive atleast a little?
But I dont think he harm the sport in any way, he is just amusing.

[anthonyvop]

Wonder what the late Colin McRae would have done with Rallying in the USA.

He did this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0de7m7uU0c

[Rally_Rocks]

Brother John, I will happily admit I'm a modern day rally fan who refuses to live in the past. You show your true colours when you, "what real rally meant". I'm sorry, but I'm only interested in living in the present and doing all I can to raise the profile of our sport to the level I think it deserves. We live in a commercially driven, celebrity obsessed world. Embrace it and exploit it, then maybe our sport stands a slim chance of not disappearing into niche obscurity only to be enjoyed by anorak wearing whingers like yourself.

[Simmi]

Brother John, I will happily admit I'm a modern day rally fan who refuses to live in the past. You show your true colours when you, "what real rally meant". I'm sorry, but I'm only interested in living in the present and doing all I can to raise the profile of our sport to the level I think it deserves. We live in a commercially driven, celebrity obsessed world. Embrace it and exploit it, then maybe our sport stands a slim chance of not disappearing into niche obscurity only to be enjoyed by anorak wearing whingers like yourself.

Or they could do practical things like lowering the cost of the WRC car. Try to attract new manufacturers through sensible new regulations. Reinstate classic rallies and give events more freedom to take the action to the fans. Aim to progress into key car markets. Improve their coverage package with the help of the internet and new media. Stuff like that. Stuff they are doing.

Or they could just spend millions on a stunt jump and put so called 'top 10' celebrities in the cars. Generally just whore themselves out to the whims of sponsors and hope these companies stick around. I think you are preaching to the wrong crowd on this forum. People look to the past because it gives them some comfort we could have golden era's like that again in the future.

I'm just glad you aren't the head of the FIA.

[Rally_Rocks]

Simmi, sometimes you talk sense, this time you are talking total crap!

What's the most exciting thing that's happening in our sport this year? Oh, and who's paying for it?

Raikkonen and Red Bull.

What Red Bull do with Pastrana is all part of an integrated global campaign to maximise the return on their rally investment. It's exciting, it's glamorous, it's glitzy, is that really a problem? Of course it isn't, it's the future. And if you don't like the ride, just jump off. Marketing driven motorsport is, unfortunately for some of you guys, the only way forward.

[Tomi]

What's the most exciting thing that's happening in our sport this year? Oh, and who's paying for it?

Raikkonen and Red Bull.

Is it really? its ok that he is there, but far from the most interesting.
To me it seems that marketing men carry you around like a waste bucket.

[Simmi]

Simmi, sometimes you talk sense, this time you are talking total crap!

What's the most exciting thing that's happening in our sport this year? Oh, and who's paying for it?

Raikkonen and Red Bull.

What Red Bull do with Pastrana is all part of an integrated global campaign to maximise the return on their rally investment. It's exciting, it's glamorous, it's glitzy, is that really a problem? Of course it isn't, it's the future. And if you don't like the ride, just jump off. Marketing driven motorsport is, unfortunately for some of you guys, the only way forward.

It's funny because it seems like you still think that NYE stunt had something to do with rallying. They do sponsor Travis in his rallying exploits, but that jump is just about Red Bull. What can we do this year that is fresh? Oh yeah he have this contracted rally driver. Maybe this year we can have him do the jump. Next year something else. It's interchangable and it's a complete sideshow. I believe the money comes from a Red Bull pot of cash entitled 'Wild Events'. Not really anything to do with rallying and certainly nothing to do with their European rallying contracts. Which has been my argument from the beginning. It only benefits a small American offshoot of rallying.

And you talk about marketing like you've seen the future and you're the only one who understands what a sponsorship contract is. You have to get a return for your investment otherwise there's no point. But car manufacturers aren't designing cars and opting to rally them to prove they can jump over rivers. I don't think that's why Subaru got into rallying. You can have all the energy drink sponsors in the world but you still need manufacturers to make cars. I'd prefer to have the fate of the sport decided by them than a bunch of PR people high off their own product.

This is precisely the reason the WRC doesn't go to America. Because you have to jump over something and call yourself something you aren't just to get noticed. I'd prefer to concentrate on the positive vibes coming out of the WRC from 2010 onwards rather than some alternate reality and if that means I'm talking crap I will gladly continue to do so.

[Rally_Rocks]

Simmi, I'll admit defeat and give up. You clearly don't see the bigger picture.

Ask the guys at FHI if they'd rather see Travis do that jump in a Focus and see how quickly they jump on your head.

My last effort at helping you understand this one. As I said earlier, what Pastrana does today, a whole generation grows up wanting to do tomorrow. I'm not for one second suggesting that the jump us rallying. But it was done in rallying most iconic car by a global superstar who is passionate abiut rallying. We have a missing generation in our sport and if the exploits of Pastrana and Red Bull help that generation connect with rallying then I will always applaud it.

[AndyRAC]

Simmi, sometimes you talk sense, this time you are talking total crap!

What's the most exciting thing that's happening in our sport this year? Oh, and who's paying for it?

Raikkonen and Red Bull.

What Red Bull do with Pastrana is all part of an integrated global campaign to maximise the return on their rally investment. It's exciting, it's glamorous, it's glitzy, is that really a problem? Of course it isn't, it's the future. And if you don't like the ride, just jump off. Marketing driven motorsport is, unfortunately for some of you guys, the only way forward.

The sad thing is, you're probably right regarding Raikkonen/Red Bull/ Citroen. It was given plenty of press in the papers, magazines, hell, it was even mentioned on BBC Radio1. It was the most coverage the WRC got all year, and due to a Global Motorsport Superstar. Last year we had Rossi in RallyGB getting plenty of coverage.
While this seems good, it's also sad, Rallying has a genuine Motorsport legend - 6 Times WRChampion, yet needs other Motorsports Legends to give it any publicity. What does that say about the sport?

[janvanvurpa]

I can't seem to find anything in my post about me saying it harms the sport.

I said it doesn't do anything for the sport outside of America. It does nothing as in it makes no impact what so ever. So not harming and not improving.

Judging from the falling entries in the already skeletal Rally America Inc Amerikanski Champignonskit, the whole overblown extravaganza thing certainly isn't helping rally in USA.

16-22 entries---65% various Subarus---is not enough to keep organisers solvent and events happening.

The announcement that the Rally America "Series" will be a truncated schedule all stacked into the few months prior to the "X-games' and the "series" after all being held in some artificial arena in New Jersey seems to indicate the intentions of Rally America Inc to remake the "Champignonskit" into a mostly made-for-TV reality show....

Whether that's good or bad for "the sport' remains to be seen.

[Tomi]

Judging from the falling entries in the already skeletal Rally America Inc Amerikanski Champignonskit, the whole overblown extravaganza thing certainly isn't helping rally in USA.

16-22 entries---65% various Subarus---is not enough to keep organisers solvent and events happening.

The announcement that the Rally America "Series" will be a truncated schedule all stacked into the few months prior to the "X-games' and the "series" after all being held in some artificial arena in New Jersey seems to indicate the intentions of Rally America Inc to remake the "Champignonskit" into a mostly made-for-TV reality show....

Whether that's good or bad for "the sport' remains to be seen.

Does not look too good there, was there not some other serie with more entries usually?

[Simmi]

The announcement that the Rally America "Series" will be a truncated schedule all stacked into the few months prior to the "X-games' and the "series" after all being held in some artificial arena in New Jersey seems to indicate the intentions of Rally America Inc to remake the "Champignonskit" into a mostly made-for-TV reality show....

Whether that's good or bad for "the sport' remains to be seen.

Yeah I can't say these plans surprise me at all. When there are only a few companies interested it allows it to be dictated by their whims. Basically you are left with the X-Games and a series of super specials with larger jumps or gymkhana type garbage. When it gets stale it will be tossed aside.

I think its not a question of whether it's good or bad for the sport. The money men in the USA seem intent on just making up their own sport. A dim-wit extreme half-cousin of rallying that only two men can afford to compete in. Like I said in previous posts all money will just be pumped back in to making this a reality rather than rallying in the traditional form. Hence there is nothing to be celebrated IMO. It's a shame for American rally fans.

[anthonyvop]

A different vid of the jump. From this angle you really get an idea of how huge it was....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qgvj0rPXK2o

[ST205GT4]

Anyone who thinks these stunts will do anything to promote rallying in the US is smoking crack.

You face exactly the same sort of problem that we do here in Australia. Your motorsport world is dominated by Nascar just as ours is dominated by the V8 Supercars. Face the sad fact that unless there is some major screw up by whoever runs Nascar (a la the open wheeler split you guys had years ago), rallying is never going to be anything but a sideline sport in the US.

[JFL]

I think that many people who see these stunts(People who's never been to a rally) will notice what kind of car he is using, and maybe realise that..It's a rallycar... And maybe, they will go watch some rally.. either in front of their TV or in the forest? .. Anyways, they won't think the same as many rallyfreaks.. It won't harm rallysport at all..

[gloomyDAY]

Wow, I'm a huge rally fan, but watching that video quite literaly took my breath away! Who cares that it's not proper rallying, it's one of the most dramatic and exciting things I've ever seen anyone do in a car.I had the same reaction. Travis' stunt was simply amazing! Aside from the car, this stunt had nothing to do with rallying, but it puts all of those sponsors on a bright map. This also has a positive spillover with rally enthusiasts here in America.

I feel a little upset by some of the reactions by the board members. When Travis was at Rally Mexico in 2007 there was a line out the door just to get his autograph. Throughout the entire weekend his car park was the most crowded. All the other drivers barely received any attention from the crowd and many of those fans were not Mexicans. No one really cared about his deplorable time at the rally, hell I even had a laugh about it, but that doesn't matter when you can have a cult following wherever you travel.

Travis is a positive for the sport of rallying here in America. Eyebrows are being raised and young people are getting more curious about the sport. I think one reason that rallying is dying off is because many people do not want to change their opinions and just sit around without any action. If rallying ever becomes popular in America it won't be the same type of rallying as the dog and pony show ran by the FIA.


No hard feelings, but i think you slightly exaggerate pastranas meaning what comes to rally, also maybe your world is a bit too small.Get off your high horse.

[L5->R5/CR]

*sigh*

The crumdrugeons are spouting the doom and gloom and the fan bois have a rager over how cool it is....

It was a stunt. Travis Pastrana is a Red Bull Athlete, his Subaru contract requires anything officially in a car to be in a Subaru.

It was fun, it was exciting.

Was it rallying? NOPE
Will it save rallying? NOPE
Will it hurt rallying? NOPE

Just enjoy it for the entertainment that it was...

[janvanvurpa]

*sigh*

The crumdrugeons are spouting the doom and gloom and the fan bois have a rager over how cool it is....

It was a stunt. Travis Pastrana is a Red Bull Athlete, his Subaru contract requires anything officially in a car to be in a Subaru.

It was fun, it was exciting.

Was it rallying? NOPE
Will it save rallying? NOPE
Will it hurt rallying? NOPE

Just enjoy it for the entertainment that it was...


Nobody is spouting or even whispering doom and gloom.
Very naughty of you to slander people that way.

Those that aren't peeing their panties are suggesting that the net result for anybody other than Redbull and Travvie is a 2 seconds of fun and a big NEUTRAL for the sport..


Now if somebody wanted to begrude something they might suggest that having this little stunt on the WRC forum, somehow implying even the most tenuous connection , even the remotest hint that Travvie is worthy of comparison, shows how this harmless --extremely over done, carefully calculated stunt-----actually does detract from what's supposed to be the pinnacle of Rally in this world..

In other words this doesn't belong here but rather maybe in USA section or really in Off Topic.

[Francis44]

Wow that was quite a jump.

I understand that some of us cant really stand this kind of activity, but really this is very good. At the end of the day, everyone wins. Red Bull wins as we can see, in this thread we have already seen more than 5 references to the brand. Pastrana wins, Im sure he enjoyed the show and the jump and fans win.

But this kind of adversetising usually doesnt last for too long, If they continue to do this regularly then people will lose interest.

[Tomi]

Get off your high horse.

Dont you think that in the most part of the real world where rally is a sport there is more than just 16-22 entries, if the rally is not so well in 1 single country, it can do fine in many.

[I am evil Homer]

great publicity....bring him to wrc now...

More publicity via YouTube and Twitter than anything WRC itsself has managed in years. for that I applaud the PR stunt and it shows WRC needs to do something more than it is.

However he's a crap rally driver so should stick to helping Subaru with his tricksy stuff.

[Brother John]

great publicity....bring him to wrc now...

Pastrana is absolutely not ready for WRC rally. :D

[Brother John]

Brother John, I will happily admit I'm a modern day rally fan who refuses to live in the past. You show your but with things such as those jump rally will not survive in the futurewhen you, "what real rally meant". I'm sorry, but I'm only interested in living in the present and doing all I can to raise the profile of our sport to the level I think it deserves. We live in a commercially driven, celebrity obsessed world. Embrace it and exploit it, then maybe our sport stands a slim chance of not disappearing into niche obscurity only to be enjoyed by anorak wearing whingers like yourself.

I live also in the present, yes we live in a commercial world but with things such as those jump, rally will not survive in the future!
My true collors is that i like the rally sport and that has nothing to do with the past but with 30 years experience as a rally fan.

[gloomyDAY]

Dont you think that in the most part of the real world where rally is a sport there is more than just 16-22 entries, if the rally is not so well in 1 single country, it can do fine in many.Yes, I live in the real world, and you should know that big things start out small. I'm not sure why you're being so condescending. Rallying is still in its infancy in America, if compared to rallying in Europe, and should not be taken lightly. I feel as if a door is beginning to open up for rallying in America. Disillusioned Indy fans and embittered NASCAR tailgaters are probably looking at something else to whet their automotive palate.

Be patient...

[janvanvurpa]

Yes, I live in the real world, and you should know that big things start out small. I'm not sure why you're being so condescending. Rallying is still in its infancy in America, if compared to rallying in Europe, and should not be taken lightly. I feel as if a door is beginning to open up for rallying in America. Disillusioned Indy fans and embittered NASCAR tailgaters are probably looking at something else to whet their automotive palate.

Be patient...


Thanks!
I've only been daily involved in rally since 1984 (today, Sunday, a guy who has just built a new car and will be debuting in our season opener "Doo-Wops Rally" in Feb, is coming over to pick up arts for his suspension I made for his rwd XR4Ti rallycar, and I'll machine the differential companion flage of an Xratty to mate with his BMW diff, then machinging some alloy bushings for another noob's 240 Volvo) and was already hearing" Wait! we're just starting out, there's only been rally in America since the_______60s"

So we've been in "our" infancy since the 1960s.

And I just had my 39th birthday for the 18th time.

IF we are still in our infancy, it might be because while 99.5% of the field are in the crib, others have been shouting that "THIS TRICK" or "THIS 'media personanality'..." or "a WRC event" or some spaz-tacular external primarily PROMOTION-Centered SPECTACLE is going to be the thing to get us out of "our" infancy.

It MIGHT be we are in our infancy because some people believe if we cater to basically infantile whims for flashy glitz, the "Any promotion is good publicity" crowd, that more participation will magicvally follow...


Cause the reason we're in our infancy, and why guys such as Travvie and Kenny's are only "heroes" when there is weak competition is because there is no depth to the competition.

And there'll only eventually develop skills when there's larger numbers of PARTICIPANTS. When there's 40-50 in your particular class so you're forced to try harder.


And as those with more experience of more brains have pointed out, when the novelty of this sorta stunt wears off---like who even gives a sheeet about X-tream boys doing backflips on moto-cross bikes? Common as dog -poop on the lawn-----the "fans' will watch some other "spaz-tacular spectacle"....

But it's been what 25 years and I have a Road and Track magazine from 1976 also saying "What the US series needs is more cars, more money, more events", hasn't happened yet....

He Gloomy, tell us specifically why you haven't or aren't building a car to enter in rallies? I mean you're in LA: Car Mecca, Media Mecca.

Why are you not----as far as we know since you perpetuate the silly internet habit of posting anonymously---participating?
(Not an attack just wondering how and why people are content to just be fans)

[Tomi]

And there'll only eventually develop skills when there's larger numbers of PARTICIPANTS. When there's 40-50 in your particular class so you're forced to try harder.

This is for sure true, every country that produce international level rally drivers, has also healty national series with competition, to become a rallydriver is not just a desition, it takes years and years of practise and tough competition, its not always so easy it might look, but it can be done, if you look for instance at norway or estonia 15 years back their rallying was not much to talk about, but today they are both up there.

[WRCS14]

I initially thought wow he was quite the hero to attempt this jump. Then I seen some other youtube videos of him practicing on dirt moving the ramp back a little further each time. He even destroyed one car practicing on dirt. Then towards the end he was testing over dirt on a full scale jump with the scaffolded ramp to land on.
On the night all travis had to do was match his terminal ramp speed and throtle position and the jump was a sucess. There is now way I would ever attempt anything like this but its kinda lost some of its shine for me since all he was doing was repeating something he had already done probably a couple of times. And at that Im sure they have serious computers to test all of the above too.
My vision of true dare devil is some one who tries for a record and hopes that it will turn out ok, kinda like Evil Knievel I guess, when he jumped the buses in wembley stadium he knew he wasnt gonna make it but still went for it :) I dont think Travis has the same frame of mind.

[cali]

This is for sure true, every country that produce international level rally drivers, has also healty national series with competition, to become a rallydriver is not just a desition, it takes years and years of practise and tough competition, its not always so easy it might look, but it can be done, if you look for instance at norway or estonia 15 years back their rallying was not much to talk about, but today they are both up there.

For us it was a bit different, coming from USSR, no money etc. Rallying has been popular here for ages and it just took some time for people to get wealthy. And we have had very good drivers before as well, but they did not had a chance to go abroad and when they did, the machinery was too outdated.

But otherwise You are right, we have a quite good series :)

[Tomi]

For us it was a bit different, coming from USSR, no money etc. Rallying has been popular here for ages and it just took some time for people to get wealthy. And we have had very good drivers before as well, but they did not had a chance to go abroad and when they did, the machinery was too outdated.

But otherwise You are right, we have a quite good series :)

Yes thats true, but the point is it takes time to build a good national series, it does not happen by snapping fingers and its there.
Estonian series is good and important to our youngsters too, almost everyones first international rally is in Estonia and first international WRC is usually in Sweden.

[N.O.T]

Pastrana is absolutely not ready for WRC rally. :D

of course he is he jumped 299 meters and has a big number of clicks on youtube and thats what WRC needs... more clicks !!!

I mean Kimi is the most exciting thing in the WRC this year and of course of all times so 1 million clicks is guaranteed, if block comes we have at least 300.000 clicks more and if pastrana comes the number of clicks could be amazing....can you imagine if the italian clown sponsor kid comes too ?? my god...the number of clicks will bring tears to my eyes....

[Tomi]

of course he is he jumped 299 meters and has a big number of clicks on youtube and thats what WRC needs... more clicks !!!

I mean Kimi is the most exciting thing in the WRC this year and of course of all times so 1 million clicks is guaranteed, if block comes we have at least 300.000 clicks more and if pastrana comes the number of clicks could be amazing....can you imagine if the italian clown sponsor kid comes too ?? my god...the number of clicks will bring tears to my eyes....

very good, lol

[janneppi]

I'm more impressed what Pastrana did with a three wheeler. :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kh7d-DAZ8Y&feature=related

[JAM]

Travis and Red Bull Subaru were seen for more people with this jump than Sebastien Loeb and Citroen with his WRC title.

The reason is obvious, this jump was broadcasted all around the world in all TV stations. Loeb's title was broadcasted only in a few tv stations (the ones who had contract wirh ISC)... This was really good to rallying, because Travis was in a rallycar, and he could had been in any kind of car to do this.

What upsets me is this ecocentric sprit form rally people. Guys, WRC is not the center of world! Wake up guys!!

If was Loeb doing this, maybe a lot of people would know who is Sebastien Loeb, but as was Pastrana, people lnows that an crazy american made tha spectacular jump. As the portuguese tv station said "Travis Pastrana, the american rally champion, break a wold record....."

[N.O.T]

Click Click Click !!!!

so the solution is to turn Loeb into a sponsor boy clown like all those american and italian jokes.....yes i agree.

More Clicks now.....

[Josti]

Travis and Red Bull Subaru were seen for more people with this jump than Sebastien Loeb and Citroen with his WRC title.

The reason is obvious, this jump was broadcasted all around the world in all TV stations. Loeb's title was broadcasted only in a few tv stations (the ones who had contract wirh ISC)... This was really good to rallying, because Travis was in a rallycar, and he could had been in any kind of car to do this.


Are you sure? Do you have figures? This hasn't been broadcasted overhere as far as I can remember. And the argument is not really about TV figures (or "clicks" as quoted from N.O.T.). It's the general misconception of certain people about the sport we know as rallying.

You're reasoning why this is "good for rallying" is so lame JAM. "Because he was in a rallycar, but it could have been any kind of car" ...right, so what's the difference if it shouldn't necessarily be related to rallying in the first place?



What upsets me is this ecocentric sprit form rally people. Guys, WRC is not the center of world! Wake up guys!!


I don't think you really followed the thread good enough.



If was Loeb doing this, maybe a lot of people would know who is Sebastien Loeb, but as was Pastrana, people lnows that an crazy american made tha spectacular jump. As the portuguese tv station said "Travis Pastrana, the american rally champion, break a wold record....."

There's not much else you can expect from Travis, we're used to it, but if Loeb was doing this, it would simply get on my nerves (luckily in this case, Loeb is not a showman in heart). Even though it looks spectacular to see an Impreza flying, this stunt was very calculated as some said before, there's no way he wasn't going to make it.

And wasn't Travis Pastrana a "World Champion"? :p

[JAM]

I don't expect nothing from Pastrana, for me the question is not the driver, but the promotion of WRC.

Do you want figures? Do you think that the majority of TV news around the world didn't notice that? In Portugal we have 3 main TV channels, usually one of them broadcast lite reports form WRC events, but this time two of them broadcasted a report about this jump.

And you? Do you have figures to prove that i'm wrong?!? :D

One thing is sure. All USA saw it, and more than half of Europe also. Usually WRC is seen by ahlef of europeans and only a few americans. Globaly, this jump had for sure more viewers that WRC events. A friend of mine who work in Zuhai told me that saw it in China TV!!!

I want real rallying, but we need this kind of entertainment to promote the real rallying near the ones that don't usually see rallies. If WRC wants to grow, ISC needs much more promotion than we had at the moment. This is the central point.

But ok, when ISC replaced Eurosport by MotorsTV, we understand that they don't want more viewers...

[Simmi]

I don't expect nothing from Pastrana, for me the question is not the driver, but the promotion of WRC.

Do you want figures? Do you think that the majority of TV news around the world didn't notice that? In Portugal we have 3 main TV channels, usually one of them broadcast lite reports form WRC events, but this time two of them broadcasted a report about this jump.

And you? Do you have figures to prove that i'm wrong?!? :D

One thing is sure. All USA saw it, and more than half of Europe also. Usually WRC is seen by ahlef of europeans and only a few americans. Globaly, this jump had for sure more viewers that WRC events. A friend of mine who work in Zuhai told me that saw it in China TV!!!

I want real rallying, but we need this kind of entertainment to promote the real rallying near the ones that don't usually see rallies. If WRC wants to grow, ISC needs much more promotion than we had at the moment. This is the central point.

But ok, when ISC replaced Eurosport by MotorsTV, we understand that they don't want more viewers...

I hear you on the fact it needs better promotion. But what are you actually suggesting here? I also wouldn't kid yourself that the whole of America and at least half of Europe has seen this. Should ISC try and do a jump? With what money? And would that not just be false advertising?

I say the best thing they can do is work with event organisers to try and take respective events into centrally populated areas as much as possible. Whether this is service parks, ceremonial starts and even better stages or demonstration runs. Now this isn't easy to do and costs money, time and planning. But if you're town grinds to a standstill one afternoon you might just hear about it or get caught up in it. And it will make the news. That's all I can suggest because this jump has clouded people's brains from what I can tell.

[Tomi]

I hear you on the fact it needs better promotion. But what are you actually suggesting here? I also wouldn't kid yourself that the whole of America and at least half of Europe has seen this. Should ISC try and do a jump? With what money? And would that not just be false advertising?

I say the best thing they can do is work with event organisers to try and take respective events into centrally populated areas as much as possible. Whether this is service parks, ceremonial starts and even better stages or demonstration runs. Now this isn't easy to do and costs money, time and planning. But if you're town grinds to a standstill one afternoon you might just hear about it or get caught up in it. And it will make the news. That's all I can suggest because this jump has clouded people's brains from what I can tell.

I belive it differs much how rally is promoted and showed in different countries, here we have no reason to complaine, there is quite much in tv, national championship, groupF, and offcourse WRC, for instance from our own WRC event they start showing from the tests with different interviews 1 month before the actual rally already, and from the rally several times a day about maybe 2 hours/day, and during the rally offourse quality rally radio.

[N.O.T]

exactly...exposure differs from country to country and i doubt that bringing clowns in the WRC will make 3rd world countries increase the exposure of the sport. For example here in greece even in the gold era of mid 80s and early 00s the exposure was the same as it is now....ok we had some 30min shows in every rally during these periods but they were poorly made.

So i doubt that some click youtube guys can bring the real interest of people if the product itself its not exposed properly.

[JAM]

I hear you on the fact it needs better promotion. But what are you actually suggesting here? I also wouldn't kid yourself that the whole of America and at least half of Europe has seen this. Should ISC try and do a jump? With what money? And would that not just be false advertising?

I say the best thing they can do is work with event organisers to try and take respective events into centrally populated areas as much as possible. Whether this is service parks, ceremonial starts and even better stages or demonstration runs. Now this isn't easy to do and costs money, time and planning. But if you're town grinds to a standstill one afternoon you might just hear about it or get caught up in it. And it will make the news. That's all I can suggest because this jump has clouded people's brains from what I can tell.

I'm sugesting that out of the events, all paralel promotion is welcome. To see Loeb doing donuts on the street os Buenos Aires could be seen as false advertising, but is advertising, is a rallycar near the people of a big city, is promotion of a championship, it atracts the attention of ordinary people who don't even love rally.

The promotion is not for the ones that follow sport, is for the ones that don't follow the sport, and on that basis all the promotion is welcome. A world record jump, is one thing between thousands that could be done out of the events. It's positive.

Everyting costs money, but without visibility, is impossible to chatch sponsors that could pay that expenses. They have to invest at the beggining , but invest in a sustainble project. The last years shown that WRC is not a sustainble project. One of the main suports of WRC was Eurosport reports, but that is ended. I don't see a bright future in terms of sustainability, unless a lot of manufacturers start to appear and contribute to the whole investment needed...

[gloomyDAY]

'Infancy, when compared to rallying in Europe.'

'Rallying in America will be different than the FIA dog and pony show.'

America is not Europe. Americans like a different kind of show, so I'm not sure why some people are upset. Maybe the reason rallying has failed to grasp any attention is because no one markets the sport well enough. Look at how NASCAR took advantage of the Indy/CART split and snagged all of those fans.


Why are you not----as far as we know since you perpetuate the silly internet habit of posting anonymously---participating?
(Not an attack just wondering how and why people are content to just be fans)I have motocross bike and a 4x4 truck that I tinker with at my relative's ranch. Tied down with school as well. I really don't need anymore debt when tuition prices just went up another 15%.

[janvanvurpa]

I A world record jump, is one thing between thousands that could be done out of the events. It's positive.



Well 270 feet/82m is nice but World record?
What kind of "World" record?

What's this:
Johnny Greaves jumping 301 ft just a few days earlier:

http://race-dezert.com/home/johnny-g...feet-4375.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK3fs1gZ3IU

Maybe Travvie's World record is of the same sort of "Promotion" as his being 2007 World Champignon was........

[anthonyvop]

Well 270 feet/82m is nice but World record?
What kind of "World" record?

What's this:
Johnny Greaves jumping 301 ft just a few days earlier:

http://race-dezert.com/home/johnny-g...feet-4375.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK3fs1gZ3IU

Maybe Travvie's World record is of the same sort of "Promotion" as his being 2007 World Champignon was........
It was a world record Rally Car jump. They went out of their way to mention it over and over during the broadcast.

Maybe if it was a world record for an Club Rally car using your shocks you would be less negative.

[janvanvurpa]

It was a world record Rally Car jump. They went out of their way to mention it over and over during the broadcast.

Maybe if it was a world record for an Club Rally car using your shocks you would be less negative.


I am not negative.

Car --truck whatever, the other guy jumped is 4 wheel vehicle tarted up to look like a pick up well more than 10% longer than Travvie in his 4 wheel vehicle, why be so picky if its a car or a supposed truck, it was longer and that's what counts.

You know nothing of rally, you're not here to discuss anything but rather to try and be a moster-troll, that is transparent, so maybe you should just go write you insane blather in Off Topic about how everybody in the world is a Communist-Nazi or a Nazi-Communist. Everybody except your indicted terrorist friends.

[L5->R5/CR]

Well 270 feet/82m is nice but World record?
What kind of "World" record?

What's this:
Johnny Greaves jumping 301 ft just a few days earlier:

http://race-dezert.com/home/johnny-g...feet-4375.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK3fs1gZ3IU

Maybe Travvie's World record is of the same sort of "Promotion" as his being 2007 World Champignon was........


John,

I know how badly the tendency to grab on to a prime example, however honest of a mistake (or how poorly informed some peon in charge of a website was), can be, especially when it perfectly makes a point but...

Seriously, it was on his website, probably run by some college intern who doesn't know up from down. You've have probably reposted the mis information more times than it was every actually viewed. It may be time to let that bloody, beaten, tired old horse rest.

Not trying to start an argument with you, just think about it...

[janvanvurpa]

John,

I know how badly the tendency to grab on to a prime example, however honest of a mistake (or how poorly informed some peon in charge of a website was), can be, especially when it perfectly makes a point but...

Seriously, it was on his website, probably run by some college intern who doesn't know up from down. You've have probably reposted the mis information more times than it was every actually viewed. It may be time to let that bloody, beaten, tired old horse rest.

Not trying to start an argument with you, just think about it...

It shows an attitude, a sloppiness about the context and level their accomplishments mean which we just got another example of in Kenny's press statement about about "The most significant deal in WRC History" :
"Rally just hasn't been as popular in the States because it's been deemed more a European-type sport," Block says. "We haven't had many U.S. drivers that have gotten to that level. There have been a few people that have done one-off events. No one has done multiple events. It's a huge honor to go try to do that.

"There's a lot of pride, and to do it in an American brand, I'm really stoked to have this opportunity."

He forgets john Buffum who is still a better driver, and who did respectable top 5-6 results in a number of events.

No awareness of anything that came before.....typical.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Maybe Travvie's World record is of the same sort of "Promotion" as his being 2007 World Champignon was........

lol

[JAM]

You know nothing of rally, you're not here to discuss anything but rather to try and be a moster-troll, that is transparent, so maybe you should just go write you insane blather in Off Topic about how everybody in the world is a Communist-Nazi or a Nazi-Communist. Everybody except your indicted terrorist friends.

Your brain is in troubles...

[JAM]

He forgets john Buffum who is still a better driver, and who did respectable top 5-6 results in a number of events.

No awareness of anything that came before.....typical.

No, he is right. Buffum never made more than 2 WRC events in a year.

You can see here:

John Buffum on Rallybase database (http://www.rallybase.nl/index.php?type=profile&driverid=134)

Block also made 2 WRC events in 2007.

[buffalo]

Brother John, I will happily admit I'm a modern day rally fan who refuses to live in the past. You show your true colours when you, "what real rally meant". I'm sorry, but I'm only interested in living in the present and doing all I can to raise the profile of our sport to the level I think it deserves. We live in a commercially driven, celebrity obsessed world. Embrace it and exploit it, then maybe our sport stands a slim chance of not disappearing into niche obscurity only to be enjoyed by anorak wearing whingers like yourself.

Absolute gold and agree 100% ... One of the things holding rallying back is the narrow minded living in the past mentalities ..... Pastrana, Block, RedBull, Monster, gymkhana video's, big jumps - awesome stuff !!

[Josti]

Absolute gold and agree 100% ... One of the things holding rallying back is the narrow minded living in the past mentalities ..... Pastrana, Block, RedBull, Monster, gymkhana video's, big jumps - awesome stuff !!

Haha, pretty much the point people are trying to get across is that - "Pastrana, Block, RedBull, Monster, gymkhana video's, big jumps - awesome stuff!!" - is narrow minded.

Also, present WRC is nothing like that either.

[Rally_Rocks]

Don't know if it's online, but today's Motorsport News dedicates the cover and first two inside pages to Pastrana's jump. It's also worth reading the comments of MSN editor Matt Burt who is a very experienced and well respected motorsport journalist. He very very neatly expresses the same view as myself and a number of other contributors in this thread.

[janvanvurpa]

No, he is right. Buffum never made more than 2 WRC events in a year.

You can see here:

John Buffum on Rallybase database (http://www.rallybase.nl/index.php?type=profile&driverid=134)



Thank you but I have followed Buffum since I came into the sport in 1983-84

Very few people did, indeed many works drivers then only did selected events.
But he drove and did very well, especially well when you consider the level of the sport in USA at the time on the one hand and the always huge difficulties of dropping into an event for the first or maybe at most second time.


Block also made 2 WRC events in 2007.

And if memeory serves me correctly he stuffed on the first or second stage on each and finished under the "Super rally" rules far far down in the results in very thin fields.

Buffum did "multiple events".
You try to change that to "multiple events in one year".
Sorry but his statement must be what we discuss.

[janvanvurpa]

Your brain is in troubles...

I am referring not to you but to the very agressive "Anthonyvop" who in this forum's Chit chat section has described everybody who doesn't live in the fantasy world of Cuban Revanchism as he does as "Communists-nazis" and conversely or interchangeably "Nazi-communists", and that includes everybody from me to Barak Obama.
As I said it seems in his world he is the only non-Nazi-Commie.
or Commie-Nazi.

It seems it is an all-purpose dirty word that he uses.

He has zero involvement in rally (aside from rephrasing other reports for some obscure web site) and yet he feels free to ridicule people who work everyday to make the sport in USA available and affordable to more people.
In short he is a classic internet keyboard er who tries to make arguments about things he has no connection to, and that is called a "troll".

Relax, with you I am just explaining what the conditions from our US perspective from normal rally competitors looks like.

[anthonyvop]

I am referring not to you but to the very agressive "Anthonyvop" who in this forum's Chit chat section has described everybody who doesn't live in the fantasy world of Cuban Revanchism as he does as "Communists-nazis" and conversely or interchangeably "Nazi-communists", and that includes everybody from me to Barak Obama.
As I said it seems in his world he is the only non-Nazi-Commie.
or Commie-Nazi.

It seems it is an all-purpose dirty word that he uses.

He has zero involvement in rally (aside from rephrasing other reports for some obscure web site) and yet he feels free to ridicule people who work everyday to make the sport in USA available and affordable to more people.
In short he is a classic internet keyboard er who tries to make arguments about things he has no connection to, and that is called a "troll".

Relax, with you I am just explaining what the conditions from our US perspective from normal rally competitors looks like.

Wow......You are so wrong on so many points it isn't worth the effort to point each out individually.

Now if you want to discuss how to increase participation of low-budget Club Rally competitors so you can sell more Dampers I am game but if you just want to hurl personal insults then this conversation is over.

[cali]

Sorry dudes, but this new thingie you are describing is not Rally! It is just some show-off thing, which is not bad, but do not get confused and start to think that this is rallying. Only thing that connects these publicity stunts is that US publicity guys have used Subaru rallycar.

If You want spectate something new and "spectacular" showoff thingies, give it a name and start a championship or a series. At the moment it seems that some of the guys here do not know the real meaning or spirit of rallying.

You can call me oled fashioned or narrowminded - no problems - but then again, You seem to live in a video game or in Youtube world :D

[WRCfan]

If Pastrana wants to trie to put rallying on the map in the USA, why doesn't he take his Red Bull millions to contest in the WRC?

Because Pastrana is not a full time rally driver. He does appearances for DC shoes, makes Nitro Circus TV shows and DVDs, is contracted with Suzuki in regards to the odd AMA Supercross event, as well as freestyle motocross appearances (X-Games etc...). Then couple Red Bull promo work onto that. This is why he cannot come over to WRC and focus all his energy into rally...he is first and foremost a motorcross rider, thrill seeking adrenaline junkie. Rally is 2nd for Travis, however he has a massive passion towards it.

[N.O.T]

yes yes...all these sponsor kids of various motorsports have insane passion for rally....

[Mauri A]

Absolute gold and agree 100% ... One of the things holding rallying back is the narrow minded living in the past mentalities ..... Pastrana, Block, RedBull, Monster, gymkhana video's, big jumps - awesome stuff !!
From where come these "broad minded" experts to rally forums?
From nowhere I suspect.

[Simmi]

From where come these "broad minded" experts to rally forums?
From nowhere I suspect.

Playing Colin McRae Dirt 2 on the xbox must be the key to broad mindedness.

[Mauri A]

Playing Colin McRae Dirt 2 on the xbox must be the key to broad mindedness.
O.K., but I´d like to spell it mindlessness!

[cali]

O.K., but I´d like to spell it mindlessness!

Now look Mauri, You are too old and narrowminded, because of guys like You we have the WRC in the current state : sarcasm :
We need more 275+ feet jumps and more donuts in WRC series. Judges will give points for each jump and donut and the driver with a best score wins!!!


:D :D :D

[Tomi]

Now look Mauri, You are too old and narrowminded, because of guys like You we have the WRC in the current state : sarcasm :


:D :D :D

tsot, tsot, poika ;) , very much thanks to Mauri and others like him, we here have to day the best rally in the world, Thank's Mauri.

[cali]

tsot, tsot, poika ;) , very much thanks to Mauri and others like him, we here have to day the best rally in the world, Thank's Mauri.
Hei Tomi, vähän sarkasmia vaan. Terveisin!

Your rally needs more show jumps and gymkhana elements, this will add more Youtube clicks :D = publicity :D :D


Pity I can't be there, the weather and starting looks very nice indeed.

[Tomi]

Hei Tomi, vähän sarkasmia vaan. Terveisin!

Offcourse, click, click

[WRCfan]

yes yes...all these sponsor kids of various motorsports have insane passion for rally....

Not everyone, just Block and Pastrana at this point...have to respect them for that, at the end of the day they have done a hell of a lot more with their lives than yourself, bitter, twisted and moaning about their endeavours on the internet.

[MakinenLoeb]

Before pastrana was jumping rally cars he was doing FMX (freestyle Motorcross) and he has always been crazy. I watched a documentary on the xgames and pastrana had broken so many bones, had internal bleeding a few times and some other stuff.

[WRCfan]

Have a look at the movie 199lives. A documentary film about his life, beginning until now. Fascinating.

[N.O.T]

Not everyone, just Block and Pastrana at this point...have to respect them for that, at the end of the day they have done a hell of a lot more with their lives than yourself, bitter, twisted and moaning about their endeavours on the internet.

and kimi and kubica and the italian sponsor kid and and and.....

[WRCfan]

and kimi and kubica and the italian sponsor kid and and and.....

As well as them, can only do good for the sport. If there is really a total lack of talent on their part then in the 2011 championship they likely wont be around...have to give them a chance.

[janvanvurpa]

sarkasmia

.

Oh, is that what you call it?

Never heard of that.....8)

[SubaruNorway]

Never before seen crash on practice at 1:40min ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AyvKF0QodY

[Simmi]

He tore that Impreza up pretty good!

[TMorel]

shhhh, don't tell anyone, but I'm actually starting to warm to the guy.

[Saabaru]

Neat stunt even though I’m in no way a fan of his, they could have laid off the hype a little though. The only question I have about the whole thing is. Does Vermont Sports Car not know of a little thing known to the world of Rally called Tarmac Tires? He might have stopped the car if he had something besides gravel tires… Just a thought.

[serial jeff]

Even with tarmac tires I doubt he could have stopped in time... and I don't think he even intended to.

[Saabaru]

Even with tarmac tires I doubt he could have stopped in time... and I don't think he even intended to.

I don't think they were worried about getting it to a complete stop ether, they would have needed to line up another barge. I don't think they thought he was going to hit the wall as hard as he did ether. I don't know what kind of brakes Vermont Sports Car puts on the SRTUSA cars but most of the top cars in the US use brakes comparable to what you would find on a WRC car. If he had tarmac tires, the surface of the barge was abrasive enough and he kept it straight I think he could have gotten his speed down enough to keep from doing major damage to the car when it hit the tire wall at the end. However what they should have done and would have been really cool is put a hook underneath the car and put a series of five or so cables across the barge with 100lbs weights tied to ether end and had him come in like a jet landing on an Aircraft carrier. They could have used water troughs running down each side of the barge with a sled in each one and run a cable up to the bottom of the landing ramp and have it go across with a couple of pulleys. That would have been really cool and easy to do! :D

[SubaruNorway]

Neat stunt even though I’m in no way a fan of his, they could have laid off the hype a little though. The only question I have about the whole thing is. Does Vermont Sports Car not know of a little thing known to the world of Rally called Tarmac Tires? He might have stopped the car if he had something besides gravel tires… Just a thought.

Tarmac tyres aren't very good for jumping.....
And the ramp got damp from the water, it stoped in time on testing.

[WRCMAD Sean]

I think its good publicity, and an awesome sight.

[gloomyDAY]

Almost three weeks since Pastrana took the jump and people are still interested. Yes, well I guess that's a bad thing for rallying and autosports in general.

[Langdale Forest]

Amazing stunt, :eek:

I am suprised the car slammed into the wall though, maybe they should have stopped it propeley, how badly damaged is the car?

For more insane action, check out Ken Blok...

BkNzkutTiGs

[J.Lindstroem]

Amazing stunt, :eek:

I am suprised the car slammed into the wall though, maybe they should have stopped it propeley, how badly damaged is the car?

For more insane action, check out Ken Blok...



Great video Langdale! Never seen that before i have to say. Thanks for sharing this, can't wait to see more from your "new videos" folder.

[PJRevs]

:)