A winter series?

[MDS]

The idea has been tossed around before, but what do you guys think of a winter series, either the International All-star series Tony George tossed out in the pre-merger days or a warm-climate American series to keep the costs down?

I started thinking about it after Christopher Estrada made his yearly plea on his blog: http://mvn.com/indyracingrevolution/2009/12/19/irl-notes-another-plea-for-winter-racing/

Obviously finances suck, and there really isn't the financial support, but if their was a four to six race optional series over the winter it would help develop drivers and potentially give teams another source of income. Without the A1GP out there, it could make sense for 2010 or beyond.

Here are some options I put together.

International All Star Series
Oct 24 Indy 300, streets of Surfer's Paradise Australia
Nov. 1 Zuhai International Circuit, Zuhai, China
Nov. 25 Losail International Circuit, Doha, Qater
Dec. 25 Walt Disney World Speedway, Orlando, FL

An international series could be good because it would allow teams to find international sponsors for four races. The downside is the league front office would have to be organized enough to help the teams with an international sponsor search, like NASCAR does, and they just don't have the team in place to do that.

North American Winter Series
Nov. 25 Las Vegas Motor Speedway
Dec. 12 Sebring International Raceway
Jan. 2 Phoenix International Raceway
Jan. 9 Autodrome Hermanos Rodriguez
Jan. 16 Walt Disney World Speedway

An American series would obviously be cheaper, allow teams to offer additional markets to their American based markets. Also this would probably attract more one-off teams. Its not that much more to race at Sebring than it is to test at Sebring, and so we could see some Atlantic or FIL teams move up for a race or two, or rent equipment from an established team for the season and help grow the sport.

What do you think?

[NickFalzone]

I think 3-6 "exhibition" or "all-star" type races in the offseason would be interesting. Like Surfer's was handled last year. I think the biggest concern is wrecking good equipment before the real season starts. One idea for this would be to have it kind of like a1gp, a bunch of shed-stored Dallaras from yesteryear that can be dusted of for a practice and race. I think the drivers would like it as an opportunity to keep their skills sharp in the off-season, and I could see it doing ok in some smaller markets. The question is how to keep expenses low enough that the teams will at least break even.

The other side of the coin, is that maybe the season is long enough as it is, and it's not like there's been this huge fan influx that demands more races. If it was up to me, there would be 2 more regular season races, then 1 exhibition or all-star race in the offseason (handled professionally with the latest equipment).

[bblocker68]

Fix the core product first, add the fun stuff later.

[EagleEye]

Fix the core product first, add the fun stuff later.

Without an increase in TV ratings, there is no chance (zero, zip, nada) of any winter Indycar series.

The current series is in critical condition, and only a large bump in TV ratings will ensue that is exists.

The lack of ratings, and the continued DTV/Versus issue, has driven off most potential and existing sponsors for the teams.

[Oli_M]

Like above, worry about making the series work, be profitable and attract a decent audience. Something like this will only speed up the death of the series.

IF (and that's a VERY big if) they had a stable series then perhaps an exhibition race/all star event in a different area, eg Europe, Asia or Australia may be worth looking at. But certainly not until you have a series of 20+ fully funded full season teams, a stable schedule and a sizeable TV audience.

[SarahFan]

How about a hawaiin super prix?

[Jag_Warrior]

It's an interesting idea. But I don't think the money or the interest (fan, sponsor or team) is there to make it happen.

[MDS]

It's an interesting idea. But I don't think the money or the interest (fan, sponsor or team) is there to make it happen.

Sad but true

[Chamoo]

I think the best way to do it would be to run the race at TMS or LVMS in the middle of winter when race fans of all series are starving for race action.

[bblocker68]

How about a hawaiin super prix?

It didn't get missed by everyone, Ken :) I haven't been on in a few days. If only it would've ever taken place. That looked like it would have been a fun event.

[NickFalzone]

With a 17 race sched in 2010, the IRL is imo just barely getting by with what can be considered a "full" season. Most would probably expect & prefer more, something like 20. Until they can get the regular season #'s up, forget about this extra winter season crap.

[Lee Roy]

How about a hawaiin super prix?

I still have the Hawaiin Super Prix t-shirt and ticket holder. Used to love to wear them to the USGP weekends at IMS.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I still have the Hawaiin Super Prix t-shirt and ticket holder. Used to love to wear them to the USGP weekends at IMS.

It got that close to happening they sold a t shirt and ticket holder?????? Geeze...I thought it was just some dopey idea that never made it past a tentative ok that died before any serious marketing happened....

[Wilf]

It got that close to happening they sold a t shirt and ticket holder?????? Geeze...I thought it was just some dopey idea that never made it past a tentative ok that died before any serious marketing happened....

All this means is some vendor was sold a bill of goods; he purchased the rights to manufacture and sell the tickets holder and t-shirts. The promoter took the vendor's money and never put on the race. The vendor had some great nostalgia items for flea markets once the initial craze died.

[Jag_Warrior]

I still have the Hawaiin Super Prix t-shirt and ticket holder. Used to love to wear them to the USGP weekends at IMS.

I have a ticket holder and an event pin. I actually had to take part in several heated Ebay auctions to get them years ago.

It's almost depressing to think about what might have been and what was, but I remember the intense internet arguments that took place over opening that race up to allow two of the biggest names in racing, Jacques Villeneuve and Alex Zanardi, to participate.

If such an all star race was proposed today, who could they get? No, don't answer that. The holidays are depressing enough. :(

[Lee Roy]

I have a ticket holder and an event pin. I actually had to take part in several heated Ebay auctions to get them years ago.

It's almost depressing to think about what might have been and what was, but I remember the intense internet arguments that took place over opening that race up to allow two of the biggest names in racing, Jacques Villeneuve and Alex Zanardi, to participate.

If such an all star race was proposed today, who could they get? No, don't answer that. The holidays are depressing enough. :(

I got mine directly from the vendor. Maybe I should see what they would get on e-bay. HAHA

I think that the Hawaiian Super Prix debacle was the first signal that CART was on the way down. (or out?)

[Mark in Oshawa]

I think that the Hawaiian Super Prix debacle was the first signal that CART was on the way down. (or out?)

I agree. When that happened, it was the first time I questioned the management of the series.....

[Jag_Warrior]

I agree. When that happened, it was the first time I questioned the management of the series.....

The first time I questioned the management of the series was the first time I heard Andrew Craig interviewed on TV. And the sad thing is, compared to the bozos who've managed both series since his time, he wasn't
all that bad! :p :

[Jag_Warrior]

I got mine directly from the vendor. Maybe I should see what they would get on e-bay. HAHA

I haven't been to that part of Ebay in a long time. But the last time I did a search, that section was pretty dead. I'm sure I could track that section's activity level with the TV ratings and it would probably be a close correlation. I'd say diecasts still do OK. Pins I don't know about.

[Lee Roy]

I haven't been to that part of Ebay in a long time. But the last time I did a search, that section was pretty dead. I'm sure I could track that section's activity level with the TV ratings and it would probably be a close correlation. I'd say diecasts still do OK. Pins I don't know about.


HAHA. Whatever I could get on e-bay for those items wouldn't come near to the value of the fun of seeing the grimace on the faces of old-time CART fans when they see that shirt.

[Mark in Oshawa]

The first time I questioned the management of the series was the first time I heard Andrew Craig interviewed on TV. And the sad thing is, compared to the bozos who've managed both series since his time, he wasn't
all that bad! :p :

When the Superprix fell apart, that was a huge joke. Ditto with the mess over the race at Texas.

The thing is, we need an offseason. A one off non points race with guest drivers in Hawaii would work. At least, in the 90's it would. Cant afford it really now. But a whole series of winter races wouldn't work. The IRL sort of tried it....as has A1 GP and we know how well THAT worked.

[MakinenLoeb]

If there was a winter series it would have to come to New Zealand (probably Hampton Downs) because of Scott Dixons giant fan base. He's actually here at the moment.

[Mark in Oshawa]

If there was a winter series it would have to come to New Zealand (probably Hampton Downs) because of Scott Dixons giant fan base. He's actually here at the moment.

The question is, is there a venue in NZ that could pack in enough people to justify the cost of bringing the cars down there? I don't think so but would love to know otherwise. I know there was a street circuit in Auckland but I dont think that would work well.

I also know they run at the horse track with the Thundercars and I like that circuit but again, not sure if they would be able to make enough money to afford to bring the IRL in. IN any event, a winter series is just more racing and it costs a lot of money once you start hopping across the Atlantic.

[MakinenLoeb]

The question is, is there a venue in NZ that could pack in enough people to justify the cost of bringing the cars down there? I don't think so but would love to know otherwise. I know there was a street circuit in Auckland but I dont think that would work well.

I also know they run at the horse track with the Thundercars and I like that circuit but again, not sure if they would be able to make enough money to afford to bring the IRL in. IN any event, a winter series is just more racing and it costs a lot of money once you start hopping across the Atlantic.

By thundercars you mean V8 Supercars i suppose :) . The V8 Supercars were at Pukekohe from 2001 to 2007 and now they are now at the street circuit in Hamilton. The newly built Hampton Downs Raceway was completed just recently and was supposed to hold the New Zealand A1GP event. One event that a lot of NZ Motorsport fans look forward to, to bad it folded. For the money issue im sure merchendise sales will help, because when i went to the A1GP in 2007 most people were buying A1 team jackets hats ect while i was in the pit area. And if some business man decided to pay David Beckham $2 million to play the Wellington soccer team why can't someone pay The indycars a lot of money to come here. But it is very cool to think about. Thanks for the reply.

[charles1]

That sounds interesting. Thank you for sharing the information.

Have a great day

[Mark in Oshawa]

By thundercars you mean V8 Supercars i suppose :) . The V8 Supercars were at Pukekohe from 2001 to 2007 and now they are now at the street circuit in Hamilton. The newly built Hampton Downs Raceway was completed just recently and was supposed to hold the New Zealand A1GP event. One event that a lot of NZ Motorsport fans look forward to, to bad it folded. For the money issue im sure merchendise sales will help, because when i went to the A1GP in 2007 most people were buying A1 team jackets hats ect while i was in the pit area. And if some business man decided to pay David Beckham $2 million to play the Wellington soccer team why can't someone pay The indycars a lot of money to come here. But it is very cool to think about. Thanks for the reply.

Pukeohe was one of my favourite Supercar tracks. Sad to see it get dumped for a street circuit. A1's business model proves WHY it is a bad idea for the IRL to be hopping around the world. The NZ round may have paid enough to bring in the A1. Maybe. Then again, if A1 was getting so much money from every stop, then why are they defunct?

The point remains, a winter series in the Southern Hemisphere for the IRL is now out of the question unless the venues can pay enough money that the teams can afford to go as well as the series. The days of losing money on a trip to a new market are gone when you are life and death to keep the doors open.